dreadnatty
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 5,431
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February 2013
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Retna โข Say My Name, So You Can See Me , by dreadnatty on Feb 4, 2017 2:54:10 GMT 1, And people wonder why people leave this place/dont post much anymore.๐ Its a shame, some of my favorite forum members have chosen to disappear and this forum has suffered as a result. Good to see you're still around Dread you were a little disenchanted with the forum a while back, I thoroughly enjoyed your Henry Chalfant photos from the firestone exhibit.
And people wonder why people leave this place/dont post much anymore.๐ Its a shame, some of my favorite forum members have chosen to disappear and this forum has suffered as a result. Good to see you're still around Dread you were a little disenchanted with the forum a while back, I thoroughly enjoyed your Henry Chalfant photos from the firestone exhibit. Thanks SB...im still disenchanted but there are still some really solid members and I try my best to scroll past the garbage. |
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dreadnatty
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 5,431
๐๐ป 6,992
February 2013
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Retna โข Say My Name, So You Can See Me , by dreadnatty on Feb 4, 2017 2:59:04 GMT 1, You are applying my statement about 10 pieces out of my collection of 300 or so pieces to my entire approach towards art. I've not been around for a while but I presume someone around here remembers me, and knows that I collect with a passion that has nothing to to about money. 10 pieces that I picked up becuase as someone who knows art I can spot a good investment and would be stupid to not leverage that knowledge.
You are applying my statement about 10 pieces out of my collection of 300 or so pieces to my entire approach towards art. I've not been around for a while but I presume someone around here remembers me, and knows that I collect with a passion that has nothing to to about money. 10 pieces that I picked up becuase as someone who knows art I can spot a good investment and would be stupid to not leverage that knowledge. Sin is a solid,knowledgeable member. Hard to believe that anybody is attacking him, though on second thought, thats why many arent here anymore(or participate as much). Hopefully he stays and continues to post. |
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nex
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,573
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February 2009
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Retna โข Say My Name, So You Can See Me , by nex on Feb 4, 2017 5:49:15 GMT 1, My apologies Sin I didn't mean to cause you so much consternation, look, I've an issue with the type of man retna is and because of that I choose not to buy his work. You and others are free to do what you like, it's refreshing to see the level of honesty you showed.
My apologies Sin I didn't mean to cause you so much consternation, look, I've an issue with the type of man retna is and because of that I choose not to buy his work. You and others are free to do what you like, it's refreshing to see the level of honesty you showed.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Retna โข Say My Name, So You Can See Me , by Deleted on Feb 4, 2017 11:56:45 GMT 1, And yet this art you don't want to buy is relevant enough to comment on. If you don't like it and would never buy it why comment?
And yet this art you don't want to buy is relevant enough to comment on. If you don't like it and would never buy it why comment? It's an urban art forum and everyone has the right to post their opinion whether it's from a buyers point of view or an aesthetic or other observation. |
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Retna โข Say My Name, So You Can See Me , by Deleted on Feb 4, 2017 11:59:11 GMT 1, Rather than dignify this with a reply, let me leave with a note to say that I'm glad I was able to enjoy this board when it was full of informed and passionate collectors who were descent people. I've often said that I still love the art but the culture has gotten insufferable. It would seem that this has seeped into this board. You can add me to the list of people that won't be back.
You have no problem calling someone a dick for no reason.
Don't be such a prima donna.
It's an art forum and belive it or not it's not about the money for many members on here, it's about the art.
As for people leaving the forum thats their choice.
Rather than dignify this with a reply, let me leave with a note to say that I'm glad I was able to enjoy this board when it was full of informed and passionate collectors who were descent people. I've often said that I still love the art but the culture has gotten insufferable. It would seem that this has seeped into this board. You can add me to the list of people that won't be back. Lol, You have no problem calling someone a dick for no reason. Don't be such a prima donna. It's an art forum and belive it or not it's not about the money for many members on here, it's about the art. As for people leaving the forum thats their choice. |
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
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Retna โข Say My Name, So You Can See Me , by Deleted on Feb 4, 2017 12:05:16 GMT 1, You are applying my statement about 10 pieces out of my collection of 300 or so pieces to my entire approach towards art. I've not been around for a while but I presume someone around here remembers me, and knows that I collect with a passion that has nothing to to about money. 10 pieces that I picked up becuase as someone who knows art I can spot a good investment and would be stupid to not leverage that knowledge. Sin is a solid,knowledgeable member. Hard to believe that anybody is attacking him, though on second thought, thats why many arent here anymore(or participate as much). Hopefully he stays and continues to post.
No one attacked sin, he and russky insulted people on this thread.
To me regarding the allegation that knowledgable members don't want to post on here cold be for any reason.
People from all walks of life post on this board and my view is that depending on ones social class or work they are involved in whether it's lecturing or investing or driving round in an uber Ferrari or being the boss of a company. How they treat people in their real life, and some try to do the same on this board and don't get the response on here that they do in their real lives from their underlings.
In fact to me it seems more like the high brow members on here and the people pumping stock put off a lot of people who are interested in art for the art.
You are applying my statement about 10 pieces out of my collection of 300 or so pieces to my entire approach towards art. I've not been around for a while but I presume someone around here remembers me, and knows that I collect with a passion that has nothing to to about money. 10 pieces that I picked up becuase as someone who knows art I can spot a good investment and would be stupid to not leverage that knowledge. Sin is a solid,knowledgeable member. Hard to believe that anybody is attacking him, though on second thought, thats why many arent here anymore(or participate as much). Hopefully he stays and continues to post. No one attacked sin, he and russky insulted people on this thread. To me regarding the allegation that knowledgable members don't want to post on here cold be for any reason. People from all walks of life post on this board and my view is that depending on ones social class or work they are involved in whether it's lecturing or investing or driving round in an uber Ferrari or being the boss of a company. How they treat people in their real life, and some try to do the same on this board and don't get the response on here that they do in their real lives from their underlings. In fact to me it seems more like the high brow members on here and the people pumping stock put off a lot of people who are interested in art for the art. |
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
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January 1970
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Retna โข Say My Name, So You Can See Me , by Deleted on Feb 4, 2017 12:31:03 GMT 1, I'm personally not interested in being told why I should or shouldn't buy art by total strangers. This forum is really cool for buying and selling without doubt. But telling me I shouldn't buy art because the personal issues of an artist is ludicrous! Do I like or agree with him no.. but the list of actors, musicians , celebrities who behave appallingly is enormous. Boycott them all? Someone's reasons for buying art also shouldn't be questioned.. love, investment, greed who cares. Without buyers there is no art..
I'm personally not interested in being told why I should or shouldn't buy art by total strangers. This forum is really cool for buying and selling without doubt. But telling me I shouldn't buy art because the personal issues of an artist is ludicrous! Do I like or agree with him no.. but the list of actors, musicians , celebrities who behave appallingly is enormous. Boycott them all? Someone's reasons for buying art also shouldn't be questioned.. love, investment, greed who cares. Without buyers there is no art..
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Eton Groover
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 975
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February 2008
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Retna โข Say My Name, So You Can See Me , by Eton Groover on Feb 4, 2017 13:36:18 GMT 1, Without buyers there is no art..
That sentence is so wrong.
A true artist produces art without regard to money at all.
It's all the galleries, collectors, speculators et al that monetarise it.
So much stuff we see on here is only produced for money. It's not "art" as I see it.
Without buyers there is no art.. That sentence is so wrong. A true artist produces art without regard to money at all. It's all the galleries, collectors, speculators et al that monetarise it. So much stuff we see on here is only produced for money. It's not "art" as I see it. |
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
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January 1970
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Retna โข Say My Name, So You Can See Me , by Deleted on Feb 4, 2017 13:43:28 GMT 1, And how exactly does this artist that has no sales / collectors buy his paint and equipment? Magic beans?
And how exactly does this artist that has no sales / collectors buy his paint and equipment? Magic beans?
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Eton Groover
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 975
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February 2008
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Retna โข Say My Name, So You Can See Me , by Eton Groover on Feb 4, 2017 13:47:22 GMT 1, They find a way. They're creative people after all.
People will always make art regardless of money.
They find a way. They're creative people after all.
People will always make art regardless of money.
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
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January 1970
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Retna โข Say My Name, So You Can See Me , by Deleted on Feb 4, 2017 13:50:40 GMT 1, i get your point I really do but it's just not how things are is it?
i get your point I really do but it's just not how things are is it?
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Eton Groover
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 975
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February 2008
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Retna โข Say My Name, So You Can See Me , by Eton Groover on Feb 4, 2017 13:59:41 GMT 1, Not at this end. We are consumers so we pay but the artists produce regardless.
All artist start without collectors, gallery representation, etc. Some become successful, most not.
This forum is nearly all about investment and speculation these days. For me most of the art here isn't worth the money. It just wouldn't replace some of the cheaper stuff I have as it doesn't compare.
Even Banksy prints wouldn't make the wall in my house. I'm grateful for it as it introduced me to collecting, but my taste has moved on. They are purely a status symbol for most people. I might as well have framed ISA valuations or share certificates on the wall.
Not at this end. We are consumers so we pay but the artists produce regardless.
All artist start without collectors, gallery representation, etc. Some become successful, most not.
This forum is nearly all about investment and speculation these days. For me most of the art here isn't worth the money. It just wouldn't replace some of the cheaper stuff I have as it doesn't compare.
Even Banksy prints wouldn't make the wall in my house. I'm grateful for it as it introduced me to collecting, but my taste has moved on. They are purely a status symbol for most people. I might as well have framed ISA valuations or share certificates on the wall.
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
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January 1970
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Retna โข Say My Name, So You Can See Me , by Deleted on Feb 4, 2017 15:43:22 GMT 1, And how exactly does this artist that has no sales / collectors buy his paint and equipment? Magic beans?
And how exactly does this artist that has no sales / collectors buy his paint and equipment? Magic beans? Artists always find a way to buy materials. A bit of this and a bit of that. I've done all sorts of stuff. |
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
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January 1970
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Retna โข Say My Name, So You Can See Me , by Deleted on Feb 4, 2017 15:49:23 GMT 1, How a Working-Class Couple Amassed a Priceless Art Collection
By Jed Lipinski
"Herb Vogel never earned more than $23,000 a year. Born and raised in Harlem, Vogel worked for the post office in Manhattan. He spent nearly 50 years living in a 450-square-foot one-bedroom apartment with his wife, Dorothy, a reference librarian at the Brooklyn Public Library. They lived frugally. They didnโt travel. They ate TV dinners. Aside from a menagerie of pets, Herb and Dorothy had just one indulgence: art. But their passion for collecting turned them into unlikely celebrities, working-class heroes in a world of Manhattan elites.
They had only a few criteria: The work had to be affordable; it had to fit in their apartment; and it had be transportable via taxi or subway. Not part of the equation? The artistโs reputation. โWe bought what we liked,โ Dorothy said. โSimple as that.โ And they continued to lead their double lifeโracing from studio to studio to gallivant with artists and to scout their next big purchase every night, while keeping their passions private from their work colleagues. Still, assembling such an incredible collection on such a tiny budget required a few other tricks.
Work of Art
Many in the art world call the Vogelsโ method cheating. Thatโs because the couple never dealt with galleries and art dealers. Instead, Herb and Dorothy negotiated with hungry artists directly, arriving at studios with cash in hand."
mentalfloss.com/article/48844/how-working-class-couple-amassed-priceless-art-collection
How a Working-Class Couple Amassed a Priceless Art Collection
By Jed Lipinski
"Herb Vogel never earned more than $23,000 a year. Born and raised in Harlem, Vogel worked for the post office in Manhattan. He spent nearly 50 years living in a 450-square-foot one-bedroom apartment with his wife, Dorothy, a reference librarian at the Brooklyn Public Library. They lived frugally. They didnโt travel. They ate TV dinners. Aside from a menagerie of pets, Herb and Dorothy had just one indulgence: art. But their passion for collecting turned them into unlikely celebrities, working-class heroes in a world of Manhattan elites.
They had only a few criteria: The work had to be affordable; it had to fit in their apartment; and it had be transportable via taxi or subway. Not part of the equation? The artistโs reputation. โWe bought what we liked,โ Dorothy said. โSimple as that.โ And they continued to lead their double lifeโracing from studio to studio to gallivant with artists and to scout their next big purchase every night, while keeping their passions private from their work colleagues. Still, assembling such an incredible collection on such a tiny budget required a few other tricks.
Work of Art
Many in the art world call the Vogelsโ method cheating. Thatโs because the couple never dealt with galleries and art dealers. Instead, Herb and Dorothy negotiated with hungry artists directly, arriving at studios with cash in hand."
mentalfloss.com/article/48844/how-working-class-couple-amassed-priceless-art-collection
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
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January 1970
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Retna โข Say My Name, So You Can See Me , by Deleted on Feb 4, 2017 21:20:55 GMT 1, from an investment perspective. an artist that has money behind him with a wide collector base that also has money behind him is a good financial bet, if one is making a financial bet. ย the fact that he has shown and sold out in all the big spots, and has institutional representation, means its likely to hold on. ย so if you are wondering if spending $10K today was a good bet, it was, was it as good as the Braddock Print (which i got 3 of and gave 2 away) or the Provocaters print? ย No. ย Will it likely be worth much more than I spent on it in 5,10,20? ย yes. ย ย from an art perspective (removing the behavior, just dealing with the art) from a historical perspective, visual language perspective, translation from street to gallery, Retna is important, will be part of academic study, he pulls the graffiti discussion into the gallery and his caligraphies connection to culture expands that discussion into historic forms of muralism. ย some of retna's works are hard to argue with as being powerful in their visual impact. ย i personally enjoy earlier work, the writing over photographs, etc, but in general i always find the caligraphy visually interesting and desiphering it is also enjoyable. ย ย from his behavior, bravado and that impact on his art the artist clearly takes away from the work. its the unfortunate outcome of someone coming from a world where this type of behavior and approach to conflict is a reality, then you amplify that with money and fame. he will either 1, grow up at some point, become mature and have a long career where he beds 20 years olds well into his 80's.... or he will perish due to his lifestyle an be a tragic tale. ย ย
I don't know sin. But he's honest.and there are people that use art as a business and that's fine. If you have a problem with the fact that art is an investment for some to should probably stop collecting and if you ever post in the sale forum you deserve to be accosted. Who criticizes the finances of art and then ever sells anything. Parlaying an investment in one artist to buy more art makes it more acceptable than selling for cash? BULL. If you want to invest in Retna, it's as bad as buying a stock that sells tobacco. There are problems with it and moral hazards but it's a good analogy.
from an investment perspective. an artist that has money behind him with a wide collector base that also has money behind him is a good financial bet, if one is making a financial bet. ย the fact that he has shown and sold out in all the big spots, and has institutional representation, means its likely to hold on. ย so if you are wondering if spending $10K today was a good bet, it was, was it as good as the Braddock Print (which i got 3 of and gave 2 away) or the Provocaters print? ย No. ย Will it likely be worth much more than I spent on it in 5,10,20? ย yes. ย ย from an art perspective (removing the behavior, just dealing with the art) from a historical perspective, visual language perspective, translation from street to gallery, Retna is important, will be part of academic study, he pulls the graffiti discussion into the gallery and his caligraphies connection to culture expands that discussion into historic forms of muralism. ย some of retna's works are hard to argue with as being powerful in their visual impact. ย i personally enjoy earlier work, the writing over photographs, etc, but in general i always find the caligraphy visually interesting and desiphering it is also enjoyable. ย ย from his behavior, bravado and that impact on his art the artist clearly takes away from the work. its the unfortunate outcome of someone coming from a world where this type of behavior and approach to conflict is a reality, then you amplify that with money and fame. he will either 1, grow up at some point, become mature and have a long career where he beds 20 years olds well into his 80's.... or he will perish due to his lifestyle an be a tragic tale. ย ย I don't know sin. But he's honest.and there are people that use art as a business and that's fine. If you have a problem with the fact that art is an investment for some to should probably stop collecting and if you ever post in the sale forum you deserve to be accosted. Who criticizes the finances of art and then ever sells anything. Parlaying an investment in one artist to buy more art makes it more acceptable than selling for cash? BULL. If you want to invest in Retna, it's as bad as buying a stock that sells tobacco. There are problems with it and moral hazards but it's a good analogy. |
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cyberkid
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,375
๐๐ป 2,458
January 2015
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Retna โข Say My Name, So You Can See Me , by cyberkid on Feb 4, 2017 22:44:34 GMT 1, sold out !
sold out !
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overend
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 593
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October 2013
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Retna โข Say My Name, So You Can See Me , by overend on Feb 4, 2017 23:33:23 GMT 1,
Yep. Congrats to all those that purchased.
Yep. Congrats to all those that purchased. |
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nex
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,573
๐๐ป 1,819
February 2009
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Retna โข Say My Name, So You Can See Me , by nex on Feb 5, 2017 0:08:34 GMT 1, Whilst this place has always been about money, at least hidden somewhere underneath has been a vague joy of art and an even vaguer connection to some of the principles banksy holds dear to his heart.
I think we can finally say that those vague allusions are gone and this place has nothing to do with banksy at all. I best go back to slowly selling off my collection to look after my expanding family and leave the ideology for somewhere other than this place.
Sorry I've been a pain recently, I hope you all find joy in your investment principles.
See you in the for sale threads.
X
Whilst this place has always been about money, at least hidden somewhere underneath has been a vague joy of art and an even vaguer connection to some of the principles banksy holds dear to his heart.
I think we can finally say that those vague allusions are gone and this place has nothing to do with banksy at all. I best go back to slowly selling off my collection to look after my expanding family and leave the ideology for somewhere other than this place.
Sorry I've been a pain recently, I hope you all find joy in your investment principles.
See you in the for sale threads.
X
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Retna โข Say My Name, So You Can See Me , by Coach on Feb 5, 2017 1:10:29 GMT 1, Whilst this place has always been about money, at least hidden somewhere underneath has been a vague joy of art and an even vaguer connection to some of the principles banksy holds dear to his heart. I think we can finally say that those vague allusions are gone and this place has nothing to do with banksy at all. I best go back to slowly selling off my collection to look after my expanding family and leave the ideology for somewhere other than this place. Sorry I've been a pain recently, I hope you all find joy in your investment principles. See you in the for sale threads. X
I hope you don't stop posting nex.
This place needs old members like yourself.
Your knowledge would be missed. As would your insight and humour.
Whilst this place has always been about money, at least hidden somewhere underneath has been a vague joy of art and an even vaguer connection to some of the principles banksy holds dear to his heart. I think we can finally say that those vague allusions are gone and this place has nothing to do with banksy at all. I best go back to slowly selling off my collection to look after my expanding family and leave the ideology for somewhere other than this place. Sorry I've been a pain recently, I hope you all find joy in your investment principles. See you in the for sale threads. X I hope you don't stop posting nex. This place needs old members like yourself. Your knowledge would be missed. As would your insight and humour. |
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Dr Plip
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 7,043
๐๐ป 8,981
August 2011
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Retna โข Say My Name, So You Can See Me , by Dr Plip on Feb 5, 2017 1:37:41 GMT 1, And how exactly does this artist that has no sales / collectors buy his paint and equipment? Magic beans? Artists always find a way to buy materials. A bit of this and a bit of that. I've done all sorts of stuff. And it was a night I'll never forget.
x
And how exactly does this artist that has no sales / collectors buy his paint and equipment? Magic beans? Artists always find a way to buy materials. A bit of this and a bit of that. I've done all sorts of stuff. And it was a night I'll never forget.
x
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Dr Plip
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 7,043
๐๐ป 8,981
August 2011
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Retna โข Say My Name, So You Can See Me , by Dr Plip on Feb 5, 2017 1:38:21 GMT 1, Please don't go.
Please don't go.
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Dr Plip
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 7,043
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August 2011
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Retna โข Say My Name, So You Can See Me , by Dr Plip on Feb 5, 2017 1:45:43 GMT 1, I would never tell anyone what they should buy or consume, but (for me), a purchase is also kinda an endorsement. I know some artists will have shady lives/backgrounds/habits, but if I knowingly give money to a person (or a company for that matter), then I am kinda saying that I'm ok with helping them to continue in the way that they have been behaving.
I appreciate that the world isn't black and white. But I would prefer to do as little harm as reasonably possible. While a person or company behaves in a way that I don't agree with or that I think is detrimental to others, then I probably won't give them my money.
I find his art visual pleasing, but I don't need to own it or send money his way.
We all struggle through life with our own morality as companions. Some are easier to live with.
Anyway, back to arguing.
Did I mention I'm vegan?
I would never tell anyone what they should buy or consume, but (for me), a purchase is also kinda an endorsement. I know some artists will have shady lives/backgrounds/habits, but if I knowingly give money to a person (or a company for that matter), then I am kinda saying that I'm ok with helping them to continue in the way that they have been behaving.
I appreciate that the world isn't black and white. But I would prefer to do as little harm as reasonably possible. While a person or company behaves in a way that I don't agree with or that I think is detrimental to others, then I probably won't give them my money.
I find his art visual pleasing, but I don't need to own it or send money his way.
We all struggle through life with our own morality as companions. Some are easier to live with.
Anyway, back to arguing.
Did I mention I'm vegan? |
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Dr Plip
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 7,043
๐๐ป 8,981
August 2011
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Retna โข Say My Name, So You Can See Me , by Dr Plip on Feb 5, 2017 1:50:59 GMT 1, I think this is how Trump got in.
Some people really hate being told their morals might be out of whack.
Not accusing anyone on here of being a Trump supporter, I just wanted to bring politics to this thread.
I think this is how Trump got in.
Some people really hate being told their morals might be out of whack.
Not accusing anyone on here of being a Trump supporter, I just wanted to bring politics to this thread. |
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Retna โข Say My Name, So You Can See Me , by Coach on Feb 5, 2017 1:57:59 GMT 1, I would never tell anyone what they should buy or consume, but (for me), a purchase is also kinda an endorsement. I know some artists will have shady lives/backgrounds/habits, but if I knowingly give money to a person (or a company for that matter), then I am kinda saying that I'm ok with helping them to continue in the way that they have been behaving.
I appreciate that the world isn't black and white. But I would prefer to do as little harm as reasonably possible. While a person or company behaves in a way that I don't agree with or that I think is detrimental to others, then I probably won't give them my money.
I find his art visual pleasing, but I don't need to own it or send money his way.
We all struggle through life with our own morality as companions. Some are easier to live with.
Anyway, back to arguing.
Did I mention I'm vegan?
I think you are spot on Dr.
I don't think anyone suggested that people shouldn't invest in art, as has been suggested.
The discussion was about whether one can divorce ones feelings about the behaviour of an artist from one's enjoyment of their art.
I agree, in that I find retna's art aesthetically very pleasing, especially his work on the street. It looks superb. The issue is whether I wish to buy his work bearing in mind what he has said publicly.
For very personal reasons, I do not.
But I don't have a huge problem with those that do. That's their choice.
I dont much like being called a dick head, but I think that says more about the member saying it than me.
The most important thing is that we are free to have the debate.
I would never tell anyone what they should buy or consume, but (for me), a purchase is also kinda an endorsement. I know some artists will have shady lives/backgrounds/habits, but if I knowingly give money to a person (or a company for that matter), then I am kinda saying that I'm ok with helping them to continue in the way that they have been behaving.
I appreciate that the world isn't black and white. But I would prefer to do as little harm as reasonably possible. While a person or company behaves in a way that I don't agree with or that I think is detrimental to others, then I probably won't give them my money.
I find his art visual pleasing, but I don't need to own it or send money his way.
We all struggle through life with our own morality as companions. Some are easier to live with.
Anyway, back to arguing.
Did I mention I'm vegan? I think you are spot on Dr. I don't think anyone suggested that people shouldn't invest in art, as has been suggested. The discussion was about whether one can divorce ones feelings about the behaviour of an artist from one's enjoyment of their art. I agree, in that I find retna's art aesthetically very pleasing, especially his work on the street. It looks superb. The issue is whether I wish to buy his work bearing in mind what he has said publicly. For very personal reasons, I do not. But I don't have a huge problem with those that do. That's their choice. I dont much like being called a dick head, but I think that says more about the member saying it than me. The most important thing is that we are free to have the debate. |
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Dr Plip
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 7,043
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August 2011
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Retna โข Say My Name, So You Can See Me , by Dr Plip on Feb 5, 2017 1:59:41 GMT 1, Be the change you want to see in the world.
(ยฃ2.75)
Be the change you want to see in the world.
(ยฃ2.75) |
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nex
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,573
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February 2009
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Retna โข Say My Name, So You Can See Me , by nex on Feb 5, 2017 2:05:58 GMT 1, Good to see you here plip as always you're the calm sensible but eminently right approach helps 
That trump analogy is actually a very good one, the left with their self righteousness can certainly get people's backs up
Ps. I too like retnas art and have had both the opportunity and resources to invest in his art...
Good to see you here plip as always you're the calm sensible but eminently right approach helps That trump analogy is actually a very good one, the left with their self righteousness can certainly get people's backs up Ps. I too like retnas art and have had both the opportunity and resources to invest in his art... |
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Retna โข Say My Name, So You Can See Me , by Buff Monster Fan on Feb 5, 2017 3:58:04 GMT 1, I would never tell anyone what they should buy or consume, but (for me), a purchase is also kinda an endorsement. I know some artists will have shady lives/backgrounds/habits, but if I knowingly give money to a person (or a company for that matter), then I am kinda saying that I'm ok with helping them to continue in the way that they have been behaving.
I appreciate that the world isn't black and white. But I would prefer to do as little harm as reasonably possible. While a person or company behaves in a way that I don't agree with or that I think is detrimental to others, then I probably won't give them my money.
I find his art visual pleasing, but I don't need to own it or send money his way.
We all struggle through life with our own morality as companions. Some are easier to live with.
Anyway, back to arguing.
Did I mention I'm vegan?
I would never tell anyone what they should buy or consume, but (for me), a purchase is also kinda an endorsement. I know some artists will have shady lives/backgrounds/habits, but if I knowingly give money to a person (or a company for that matter), then I am kinda saying that I'm ok with helping them to continue in the way that they have been behaving.
I appreciate that the world isn't black and white. But I would prefer to do as little harm as reasonably possible. While a person or company behaves in a way that I don't agree with or that I think is detrimental to others, then I probably won't give them my money.
I find his art visual pleasing, but I don't need to own it or send money his way.
We all struggle through life with our own morality as companions. Some are easier to live with.
Anyway, back to arguing.
Did I mention I'm vegan? |
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Retna โข Say My Name, So You Can See Me , by Deleted on Feb 5, 2017 15:05:10 GMT 1, I'm not saying we are having a stupid discussion, because that's what we are all here for, to listen to other people's thoughts.but I am surprised at the anger and response to this drop.
People buy art for the image
People buy art because of the message
People buy art because of the artist
People buy art for investment
Sometimes these things are mutually exclusive, and the more polarizing an image or message or controversial an artist, the more that exclusivity will occur. I just don't see how someone can not both despise Retna personally and accept that someone else wants to invest in his product at the same time. Would you buy an apartment at trump towers for a 20% discount? Would you buy a print from a forum member who is a complete jerk if the price is right? People value different things, and like I said I would not buy this print because of the artist. but if someone else does, I don't admire that decision, but it is certainly not infuriating or confusing
I'm not saying we are having a stupid discussion, because that's what we are all here for, to listen to other people's thoughts.but I am surprised at the anger and response to this drop.
People buy art for the image
People buy art because of the message
People buy art because of the artist
People buy art for investment
Sometimes these things are mutually exclusive, and the more polarizing an image or message or controversial an artist, the more that exclusivity will occur. I just don't see how someone can not both despise Retna personally and accept that someone else wants to invest in his product at the same time. Would you buy an apartment at trump towers for a 20% discount? Would you buy a print from a forum member who is a complete jerk if the price is right? People value different things, and like I said I would not buy this print because of the artist. but if someone else does, I don't admire that decision, but it is certainly not infuriating or confusing
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Poly Mindset
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,175
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March 2014
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Retna โข Say My Name, So You Can See Me , by Poly Mindset on Feb 5, 2017 19:27:01 GMT 1, I'm not saying we are having a stupid discussion, because that's what we are all here for, to listen to other people's thoughts.but I am surprised at the anger and response to this drop. People buy art for the image People buy art because of the message People buy art because of the artist People buy art for investment Sometimes these things are mutually exclusive, and the more polarizing an image or message or controversial an artist, the more that exclusivity will occur. I just don't see how someone can not both despise Retna personally and accept that someone else wants to invest in his product at the same time. Would you buy an apartment at trump towers for a 20% discount? Would you buy a print from a forum member who is a complete jerk if the price is right? People value different things, and like I said I would not buy this print because of the artist. but if someone else does, I don't admire that decision, but it is certainly not infuriating or confusing
1. People buy art for the image.
IMO these images are nothing new. The symbols or letters are very similar to much he has done before ie: Provocateurs print, Eastern Realm prints, and even Braddock Tiles print. Sure, the size is larger and the arrangement may be different but basically this is nothing new and nothing to be wowed at, except for maybe the price tag.
2. People buy art because of the message.
Excellent point. In this case what is the message? Anyone....Anyone.... Maybe it's me but spending $10k on a bunch of printed letters which I have no idea what they mean until I do more work investigating what the message is, IMO just seems silly. If the message is as the title says " Say My Name, So You Can See Me" , well I would rather do neither. I think this would have been better if the title was ' Sorry to the Everyone for Doing too much Coke and Hitting Women'.
3. People buy art because of the artist.
Refer to number two and then expand on that by looking at all his Instagram posts. I know it has been stated by other members, that people make mistakes and isn't there a point where we should forgive him. My answer is, absolutely not. If that was your sister that he beat up would you ever forgive him? I wouldn't and I don't forgive any man who is so out of control that he beats on women. Additionally, (and I hate to stereotype) however, case studies have shown that most abusers will do it again. Don't be surprised if you see similar behavior in the future.
4. People buy art for investment.
Yes, many people do but many people buy art for enjoyment as well. The question in my mind is would this art bring me enjoyment? I have to say no. I would look at it and be disgusted with myself for having spent $10k on a bunch of symbols which I have no idea what they mean. Further more supporting in a big way someone I do not respect as a person. Will Retna's new print be a good investment? I suppose like anything else time will tell. I do know this though, I will not be an investor.
In closing, I would have to say that you are spot on and I concur with your last statement. I too would not buy these prints because of the artist but secondly, I just don't get it. I honestly don't think his art is that great. Having said that, I am not infuriated by people who appreciate his art and would pay for or invest in it and I would only hope they would afford me the same latitude for not doing so.
I'm not saying we are having a stupid discussion, because that's what we are all here for, to listen to other people's thoughts.but I am surprised at the anger and response to this drop. People buy art for the image People buy art because of the message People buy art because of the artist People buy art for investment Sometimes these things are mutually exclusive, and the more polarizing an image or message or controversial an artist, the more that exclusivity will occur. I just don't see how someone can not both despise Retna personally and accept that someone else wants to invest in his product at the same time. Would you buy an apartment at trump towers for a 20% discount? Would you buy a print from a forum member who is a complete jerk if the price is right? People value different things, and like I said I would not buy this print because of the artist. but if someone else does, I don't admire that decision, but it is certainly not infuriating or confusing Interesting points made here. So let's break this down: 1. People buy art for the image. IMO these images are nothing new. The symbols or letters are very similar to much he has done before ie: Provocateurs print, Eastern Realm prints, and even Braddock Tiles print. Sure, the size is larger and the arrangement may be different but basically this is nothing new and nothing to be wowed at, except for maybe the price tag. 2. People buy art because of the message. Excellent point. In this case what is the message? Anyone....Anyone.... Maybe it's me but spending $10k on a bunch of printed letters which I have no idea what they mean until I do more work investigating what the message is, IMO just seems silly. If the message is as the title says " Say My Name, So You Can See Me" , well I would rather do neither. I think this would have been better if the title was ' Sorry to the Everyone for Doing too much Coke and Hitting Women'. 3. People buy art because of the artist. Refer to number two and then expand on that by looking at all his Instagram posts. I know it has been stated by other members, that people make mistakes and isn't there a point where we should forgive him. My answer is, absolutely not. If that was your sister that he beat up would you ever forgive him? I wouldn't and I don't forgive any man who is so out of control that he beats on women. Additionally, (and I hate to stereotype) however, case studies have shown that most abusers will do it again. Don't be surprised if you see similar behavior in the future. 4. People buy art for investment. Yes, many people do but many people buy art for enjoyment as well. The question in my mind is would this art bring me enjoyment? I have to say no. I would look at it and be disgusted with myself for having spent $10k on a bunch of symbols which I have no idea what they mean. Further more supporting in a big way someone I do not respect as a person. Will Retna's new print be a good investment? I suppose like anything else time will tell. I do know this though, I will not be an investor. In closing, I would have to say that you are spot on and I concur with your last statement. I too would not buy these prints because of the artist but secondly, I just don't get it. I honestly don't think his art is that great. Having said that, I am not infuriated by people who appreciate his art and would pay for or invest in it and I would only hope they would afford me the same latitude for not doing so. |
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wompa
New Member
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March 2012
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Retna โข Say My Name, So You Can See Me , by wompa on Feb 6, 2017 17:27:44 GMT 1, Decent investment potential here but I wouldn't give this abuser a dollar.
If you can decouple ethics from collecting, good for you I guess.
Decent investment potential here but I wouldn't give this abuser a dollar.
If you can decouple ethics from collecting, good for you I guess.
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