met
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June 2009
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THE MET LOTTERY, by met on Sept 11, 2020 21:35:25 GMT 1, 1. Part A: Annie Jacobsen mentions that euphemisms have long been used by the CIA for its assassination programmes. What was the name of the relevant tertia optio committee under President Eisenhower? The name of that committee was: Health Alteration Committee 2. Part B: When describing his wariness of Huawei and, more generally, how big Chinese national companies are working to a very different model than large American companies, Jamie Metzl refers to a Chinese government rule. What is that rule? That rule consists of two pieces of legislation: the 2017 National Intelligence Law and the 2014 Counter-Espionage Law. The first law states that “any organization or citizen shall support, assist and cooperate with the state intelligence work in accordance with the law”, while the second law states that “when the state security organ investigates and understands the situation of espionage and collects relevant evidence, the relevant organizations and individuals shall provide it truthfully and may not refuse.” 3. Part E: The songs or videos in Part E have something in common. Post the missing three videos that serve to better illustrate this connection. The Breeders' video of Safari was inspired by Black Sabbath's video of Iron Man: Nadine Shah's video of Fool was inspired by Nick Cave's video of Fifteen Feet Of Pure White Snow: Cat Powers' video of Croos Bones Style was inspired by Madonna's video of Lucky Star:
Not quite, kjg, but close enough to keep this competition open for you exclusively.
To win it, you have until 22:00 UK time tomorrow (Saturday) to:
(i) Correct your answer for Question 2. [What you mentioned is not the rule that Metzl refers to.]
(ii) For Question 3, post another video that more closely influenced the Safari video by the Breeders.
(iii) In relation to Question 3, leaving aside (a) the white backgrounds, (b) the use of dark clothing for contrast, and (c) synchronised dance moves, list at least one similarity between the Cross Bones Style and Lucky Star videos.
1. Part A: Annie Jacobsen mentions that euphemisms have long been used by the CIA for its assassination programmes. What was the name of the relevant tertia optio committee under President Eisenhower? The name of that committee was: Health Alteration Committee 2. Part B: When describing his wariness of Huawei and, more generally, how big Chinese national companies are working to a very different model than large American companies, Jamie Metzl refers to a Chinese government rule. What is that rule? That rule consists of two pieces of legislation: the 2017 National Intelligence Law and the 2014 Counter-Espionage Law. The first law states that “any organization or citizen shall support, assist and cooperate with the state intelligence work in accordance with the law”, while the second law states that “when the state security organ investigates and understands the situation of espionage and collects relevant evidence, the relevant organizations and individuals shall provide it truthfully and may not refuse.” 3. Part E: The songs or videos in Part E have something in common. Post the missing three videos that serve to better illustrate this connection. The Breeders' video of Safari was inspired by Black Sabbath's video of Iron Man: Nadine Shah's video of Fool was inspired by Nick Cave's video of Fifteen Feet Of Pure White Snow: Cat Powers' video of Croos Bones Style was inspired by Madonna's video of Lucky Star: Not quite, kjg, but close enough to keep this competition open for you exclusively. To win it, you have until 22:00 UK time tomorrow (Saturday) to: (i) Correct your answer for Question 2. [What you mentioned is not the rule that Metzl refers to.](ii) For Question 3, post another video that more closely influenced the Safari video by the Breeders. (iii) In relation to Question 3, leaving aside (a) the white backgrounds, (b) the use of dark clothing for contrast, and (c) synchronised dance moves, list at least one similarity between the Cross Bones Style and Lucky Star videos.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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THE MET LOTTERY, by Deleted on Sept 11, 2020 22:35:05 GMT 1, Congrats on that! Was super curious to find out the answer.
I knew these were inspired videos but was confused on the question (even the rephrased). Thought they had to all connect to eachother and not one another haha!
Congrats on that! Was super curious to find out the answer.
I knew these were inspired videos but was confused on the question (even the rephrased). Thought they had to all connect to eachother and not one another haha!
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kjg
Junior Member
🗨️ 4,388
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December 2014
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THE MET LOTTERY, by kjg on Sept 11, 2020 22:40:35 GMT 1, (i) The rule is that wholly or majority state-owned companies must “integrate party leadership into every part of company governance.” This gives the government greater control of companies that span industries from energy to banking and telecommunications.
(ii) A video that that more closely influenced the Safari video is Black Sabbath’s official video of Paranoid:
(iii) Another similarity between the Cross Bones Style video and the Lucky Star video is that both Cat Power and Madonna are wearing yellow nail polish.
(i) The rule is that wholly or majority state-owned companies must “integrate party leadership into every part of company governance.” This gives the government greater control of companies that span industries from energy to banking and telecommunications.
(ii) A video that that more closely influenced the Safari video is Black Sabbath’s official video of Paranoid:
(iii) Another similarity between the Cross Bones Style video and the Lucky Star video is that both Cat Power and Madonna are wearing yellow nail polish.
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met
Junior Member
🗨️ 2,796
👍🏻 6,762
June 2009
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THE MET LOTTERY, by met on Sept 11, 2020 23:32:03 GMT 1, (i) The rule is that wholly or majority state-owned companies must “integrate party leadership into every part of company governance.” This gives the government greater control of companies that span industries from energy to banking and telecommunications. (ii) A video that that more closely influenced the Safari video is Black Sabbath’s official video of Paranoid: (iii) Another similarity between the Cross Bones Style video and the Lucky Star video is that both Cat Power and Madonna are wearing yellow nail polish.
Well done and congratulations, kjg.
Hope you didn't have to play Lucky Star on repeat, to the point where other household members became concerned for your welfare.
This was a competition I'm pretty content with. It was almost two years in the making — finally coming together after I discovered the wonderfully simple and understated Cross Bones Style video a few weeks ago. [You'll see that Cat Powers / Chan Marshall is also wearing multiple black rubber bracelets as a nod to Madonna.]
I'll post the reference answers on or before Sunday evening (13 September).
There will be bonus questions as well, which took me some time to prepare. If you choose to go for the bonus prize, you'll have until Wednesday night (16 September) to respond.
(i) The rule is that wholly or majority state-owned companies must “integrate party leadership into every part of company governance.” This gives the government greater control of companies that span industries from energy to banking and telecommunications. (ii) A video that that more closely influenced the Safari video is Black Sabbath’s official video of Paranoid: (iii) Another similarity between the Cross Bones Style video and the Lucky Star video is that both Cat Power and Madonna are wearing yellow nail polish. Well done and congratulations, kjg. Hope you didn't have to play Lucky Star on repeat, to the point where other household members became concerned for your welfare. This was a competition I'm pretty content with. It was almost two years in the making — finally coming together after I discovered the wonderfully simple and understated Cross Bones Style video a few weeks ago. [You'll see that Cat Powers / Chan Marshall is also wearing multiple black rubber bracelets as a nod to Madonna.]I'll post the reference answers on or before Sunday evening (13 September). There will be bonus questions as well, which took me some time to prepare. If you choose to go for the bonus prize, you'll have until Wednesday night (16 September) to respond.
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kjg
Junior Member
🗨️ 4,388
👍🏻 6,346
December 2014
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THE MET LOTTERY, by kjg on Sept 11, 2020 23:40:29 GMT 1, (i) The rule is that wholly or majority state-owned companies must “integrate party leadership into every part of company governance.” This gives the government greater control of companies that span industries from energy to banking and telecommunications. (ii) A video that that more closely influenced the Safari video is Black Sabbath’s official video of Paranoid: (iii) Another similarity between the Cross Bones Style video and the Lucky Star video is that both Cat Power and Madonna are wearing yellow nail polish. Well done and congratulations, kjg. Hope you didn't have to play Lucky Star on repeat, to the point where other household members became concerned for your welfare. This was a competition I'm pretty content with. It was almost two years in the making — finally coming together after I discovered the wonderfully simple and understated Cross Bones Style video a few weeks ago. [You'll see that Cat Powers / Chan Marshall is also wearing multiple black rubber bracelets as a nod to Madonna.]I'll post the reference answers on or before Sunday evening (13 September). There will be bonus questions as well, which took me some time to prepare. If you choose to go for the bonus prize, you'll have until Wednesday night (16 September) to respond.
Thanks, met! To be honest, I watched Lucky Star quite a few times. Even in slowmotion. But I did that in my mancave, so my wife and my daughter were not bothered by it.
Another similarity I saw, is that one of the dancers in Cat Power’s video is wearing a Madonna style lace glove.
And yes, I definitely want to go for the bonus prize :-)
(i) The rule is that wholly or majority state-owned companies must “integrate party leadership into every part of company governance.” This gives the government greater control of companies that span industries from energy to banking and telecommunications. (ii) A video that that more closely influenced the Safari video is Black Sabbath’s official video of Paranoid: (iii) Another similarity between the Cross Bones Style video and the Lucky Star video is that both Cat Power and Madonna are wearing yellow nail polish. Well done and congratulations, kjg. Hope you didn't have to play Lucky Star on repeat, to the point where other household members became concerned for your welfare. This was a competition I'm pretty content with. It was almost two years in the making — finally coming together after I discovered the wonderfully simple and understated Cross Bones Style video a few weeks ago. [You'll see that Cat Powers / Chan Marshall is also wearing multiple black rubber bracelets as a nod to Madonna.]I'll post the reference answers on or before Sunday evening (13 September). There will be bonus questions as well, which took me some time to prepare. If you choose to go for the bonus prize, you'll have until Wednesday night (16 September) to respond. Thanks, met! To be honest, I watched Lucky Star quite a few times. Even in slowmotion. But I did that in my mancave, so my wife and my daughter were not bothered by it. Another similarity I saw, is that one of the dancers in Cat Power’s video is wearing a Madonna style lace glove. And yes, I definitely want to go for the bonus prize :-)
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met
Junior Member
🗨️ 2,796
👍🏻 6,762
June 2009
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THE MET LOTTERY, by met on Sept 13, 2020 23:41:44 GMT 1, Well done and congratulations, kjg. Hope you didn't have to play Lucky Star on repeat, to the point where other household members became concerned for your welfare. This was a competition I'm pretty content with. It was almost two years in the making — finally coming together after I discovered the wonderfully simple and understated Cross Bones Style video a few weeks ago. [You'll see that Cat Powers / Chan Marshall is also wearing multiple black rubber bracelets as a nod to Madonna.]I'll post the reference answers on or before Sunday evening (13 September). There will be bonus questions as well, which took me some time to prepare. If you choose to go for the bonus prize, you'll have until Wednesday night (16 September) to respond. Thanks, met! To be honest, I watched Lucky Star quite a few times. Even in slowmotion. But I did that in my mancave, so my wife and my daughter were not bothered by it. Another similarity I saw, is that one of the dancers in Cat Power’s video is wearing a Madonna style lace glove. And yes, I definitely want to go for the bonus prize :-)
Nice spot with the lace glove, kjg. It pains me that I hadn't myself noticed this Madonna reference in the Cat Powers video. At the same time, it's a healthy reminder for me to keep trying harder.
Your bonus questions will be set out in a separate post to follow.
REFERENCE ANSWERS
1. Part A: Annie Jacobsen mentions that euphemisms have long been used by the CIA for its assassination programmes.
What was the name of the relevant tertia optio committee under President Eisenhower?
The CIA's assassination programme under President Eisenhower was the "Health Alteration Committee".
[It was called "Executive Action" under President Kennedy, and "Pre-emptive Neutralization" under President Reagan.]
2. Part B: When describing his wariness of Huawei and, more generally, how big Chinese national companies are working to a very different model than large American companies, Jamie Metzl refers to a Chinese government rule.
What is that rule?
According to Jamie Metzl, every big Chinese national company has to have a Chinese Communist Party cell inside of that company.
Metzl: [Abridged and edited.] So, Huawei, it's a complicated story. For sure, the founder of Huawei is a former Chinese military officer. For sure, in the early stages of their company, they straight-out stole lots of source code from companies like Cisco. For sure, we should be really worried if Huawei is the sole supplier of the infrastructure that supports 5G all around the world, because the Chinese government would have access to everything.
So that leads us to Question 1: Is there a problem with Huawei itself? And I can tell you the answer to that first question is probably yes. But let's just say Huawei is a legit company and they're not totally, intimately connected to the Chinese government. We then have Question 2: Can we trust their relationship with the Chinese government?
And the Chinese government has a rule that every one of these big Chinese national-champion companies has to have a Communist Party cell inside of that company. So we can't think of big Chinese companies just like we think of companies here. We have to think of them as quasi-State actors.
That's why this fight that's happening right now is so important. And that's why, like, when China is out investing in different parts of the world including Africa, their companies are kind of acting like arms of the government. They're making all kinds of investments that don't really make sense if you just see, "Well, this is a company doing something." If you say that this is a company with backing by the State that's fulfilling a function that supports the State, it's a very different model.
So I am actually quite concerned about Huawei. And I'm not a fan of everything that this [Trump] Administration is doing, but I think on China it's important that we need to stand up. And I think pushing back on Huawei is the right thing to do.
[...]
And so when we have our companies, you're out in some place in Africa and you're competing with a Chinese company to do something — build a port or whatever — and you're competing because you are an American company, and so you have your calculus: "Alright, this is the port. What's the income stream going to be about?" And you have a certain amount that you can bid, because otherwise it becomes a bad investment. But with the Chinese company, their calculus is not, "Is this a good or bad investment?" It's, "What is the State interest in controlling or quasi-controlling this asset?" And so that's why we can't project ourselves onto the Chinese. We can't say they're just like us, just different. We have different models, and our models are competing.
[...]
I'm all for open competition. I'm all for free trade. It has to be fair. But I think that what China is doing... China recognised as a State that they could use the tools of capitalism to achieve State ends. And I think we need to be very cautious about that.
[...]
I just feel like what some Chinese companies are doing, it's not competition, it's they have become quasi-State actors. And if that's what they're doing, I think we need to respond to them in that way.
3. Part E: The songs or videos in Part E have something in common. Post the missing three videos that serve to better illustrate this connection.
The videos for all three songs in Part E are parody-tributes to earlier videos by other artists.
Black Sabbath - Paranoid (1970) - uploaded by Black Sabbath
The Breeders - Safari (1992) - uploaded by The Breeders
For their last venture into video making (“Safari”), the Breeders copied the set from an old Black Sabbath video. ‘There was a different video I was looking for actually,” says Kim, describing an old Who video she had originally wanted to emulate. “There was a cool set that I’d seen the who [sic] use, black and white, really stark. So I rented out this “MTV Closet Classics” videos and I couldn’t find that but I saw this Black Sabbath one which was excellend [sic]”*
_____
For those in the know, “Safari” is an obvious tribute to Black Sabbath’s 1971 video for “Paranoid,” right down to Kim Deal’s brown leather jacket–identical to the one Ozzy’s wearing in the original video. Another fun thing to watch for–Kelley Deal’s almost complete inability to play guitar. At about 59 seconds into the video, there’s a clear shot of her staring vexedly at the neck of her guitar as she concentrates on getting the chord shapes right. I wouldn’t have noticed this, but when the Breeders were interviewed on 120 Minutes in 1993, around the time of Last Splash’s release, the video for “Safari” was played and she and Kim cracked jokes about how Kelley basically couldn’t play the song at the time they filmed the video.*
Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds - Fifteen Feet of Pure White Snow (2001) - uploaded by mortst
Nadine Shah - Fool (2015) - uploaded by Nadine Shah
Explaining the video, which is directed by Anna Victoria Best and inspired by the video for "Fifteen Feet of Pure White Snow" by Nick Cave and The Bad Seeds, Shah said:
"We got a bunch of our friends together and took over the back room of a social club in South London. We got everybody drunk on wine (that my best friend brought with her in suitcases) and I attempted to teach them a dance routine. In hindsight, I probably should have taught them the routine before the wine. Either way, I think they all look great. I’ve got a beautiful looking bunch of weirdo’s for friends."*
Madonna - Lucky Star (1983) - uploaded by Madonna
Cat Power - Cross Bones Style (1998) - uploaded by Matador Records
Chan Marshall: The real dance song is "Cross Bones Style." I'm thinking of making that the single and doing a full-on "Lucky Star" style video. Like Madonna, dancing in a white room. I'm sure I'll chicken out though.*
Well done and congratulations, kjg. Hope you didn't have to play Lucky Star on repeat, to the point where other household members became concerned for your welfare. This was a competition I'm pretty content with. It was almost two years in the making — finally coming together after I discovered the wonderfully simple and understated Cross Bones Style video a few weeks ago. [You'll see that Cat Powers / Chan Marshall is also wearing multiple black rubber bracelets as a nod to Madonna.]I'll post the reference answers on or before Sunday evening (13 September). There will be bonus questions as well, which took me some time to prepare. If you choose to go for the bonus prize, you'll have until Wednesday night (16 September) to respond. Thanks, met! To be honest, I watched Lucky Star quite a few times. Even in slowmotion. But I did that in my mancave, so my wife and my daughter were not bothered by it. Another similarity I saw, is that one of the dancers in Cat Power’s video is wearing a Madonna style lace glove. And yes, I definitely want to go for the bonus prize :-) Nice spot with the lace glove, kjg. It pains me that I hadn't myself noticed this Madonna reference in the Cat Powers video. At the same time, it's a healthy reminder for me to keep trying harder. Your bonus questions will be set out in a separate post to follow. REFERENCE ANSWERS1. Part A: Annie Jacobsen mentions that euphemisms have long been used by the CIA for its assassination programmes.
What was the name of the relevant tertia optio committee under President Eisenhower?The CIA's assassination programme under President Eisenhower was the "Health Alteration Committee". [It was called "Executive Action" under President Kennedy, and "Pre-emptive Neutralization" under President Reagan.]2. Part B: When describing his wariness of Huawei and, more generally, how big Chinese national companies are working to a very different model than large American companies, Jamie Metzl refers to a Chinese government rule.
What is that rule?According to Jamie Metzl, every big Chinese national company has to have a Chinese Communist Party cell inside of that company. Metzl: [Abridged and edited.] So, Huawei, it's a complicated story. For sure, the founder of Huawei is a former Chinese military officer. For sure, in the early stages of their company, they straight-out stole lots of source code from companies like Cisco. For sure, we should be really worried if Huawei is the sole supplier of the infrastructure that supports 5G all around the world, because the Chinese government would have access to everything.
So that leads us to Question 1: Is there a problem with Huawei itself? And I can tell you the answer to that first question is probably yes. But let's just say Huawei is a legit company and they're not totally, intimately connected to the Chinese government. We then have Question 2: Can we trust their relationship with the Chinese government?
And the Chinese government has a rule that every one of these big Chinese national-champion companies has to have a Communist Party cell inside of that company. So we can't think of big Chinese companies just like we think of companies here. We have to think of them as quasi-State actors.
That's why this fight that's happening right now is so important. And that's why, like, when China is out investing in different parts of the world including Africa, their companies are kind of acting like arms of the government. They're making all kinds of investments that don't really make sense if you just see, "Well, this is a company doing something." If you say that this is a company with backing by the State that's fulfilling a function that supports the State, it's a very different model.
So I am actually quite concerned about Huawei. And I'm not a fan of everything that this [Trump] Administration is doing, but I think on China it's important that we need to stand up. And I think pushing back on Huawei is the right thing to do.
[...]
And so when we have our companies, you're out in some place in Africa and you're competing with a Chinese company to do something — build a port or whatever — and you're competing because you are an American company, and so you have your calculus: "Alright, this is the port. What's the income stream going to be about?" And you have a certain amount that you can bid, because otherwise it becomes a bad investment. But with the Chinese company, their calculus is not, "Is this a good or bad investment?" It's, "What is the State interest in controlling or quasi-controlling this asset?" And so that's why we can't project ourselves onto the Chinese. We can't say they're just like us, just different. We have different models, and our models are competing.
[...]
I'm all for open competition. I'm all for free trade. It has to be fair. But I think that what China is doing... China recognised as a State that they could use the tools of capitalism to achieve State ends. And I think we need to be very cautious about that.
[...]
I just feel like what some Chinese companies are doing, it's not competition, it's they have become quasi-State actors. And if that's what they're doing, I think we need to respond to them in that way. 3. Part E: The songs or videos in Part E have something in common. Post the missing three videos that serve to better illustrate this connection.The videos for all three songs in Part E are parody-tributes to earlier videos by other artists. Black Sabbath - Paranoid (1970)- uploaded by Black SabbathThe Breeders - Safari (1992)- uploaded by The BreedersFor their last venture into video making (“Safari”), the Breeders copied the set from an old Black Sabbath video. ‘There was a different video I was looking for actually,” says Kim, describing an old Who video she had originally wanted to emulate. “There was a cool set that I’d seen the who [sic] use, black and white, really stark. So I rented out this “MTV Closet Classics” videos and I couldn’t find that but I saw this Black Sabbath one which was excellend [sic]”*_____ For those in the know, “Safari” is an obvious tribute to Black Sabbath’s 1971 video for “Paranoid,” right down to Kim Deal’s brown leather jacket–identical to the one Ozzy’s wearing in the original video. Another fun thing to watch for–Kelley Deal’s almost complete inability to play guitar. At about 59 seconds into the video, there’s a clear shot of her staring vexedly at the neck of her guitar as she concentrates on getting the chord shapes right. I wouldn’t have noticed this, but when the Breeders were interviewed on 120 Minutes in 1993, around the time of Last Splash’s release, the video for “Safari” was played and she and Kim cracked jokes about how Kelley basically couldn’t play the song at the time they filmed the video.* Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds - Fifteen Feet of Pure White Snow (2001)- uploaded by mortstNadine Shah - Fool (2015)- uploaded by Nadine ShahExplaining the video, which is directed by Anna Victoria Best and inspired by the video for "Fifteen Feet of Pure White Snow" by Nick Cave and The Bad Seeds, Shah said:
"We got a bunch of our friends together and took over the back room of a social club in South London. We got everybody drunk on wine (that my best friend brought with her in suitcases) and I attempted to teach them a dance routine. In hindsight, I probably should have taught them the routine before the wine. Either way, I think they all look great. I’ve got a beautiful looking bunch of weirdo’s for friends."*Madonna - Lucky Star (1983)- uploaded by MadonnaCat Power - Cross Bones Style (1998)- uploaded by Matador RecordsChan Marshall: The real dance song is "Cross Bones Style." I'm thinking of making that the single and doing a full-on "Lucky Star" style video. Like Madonna, dancing in a white room. I'm sure I'll chicken out though.*
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met
Junior Member
🗨️ 2,796
👍🏻 6,762
June 2009
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THE MET LOTTERY, by met on Sept 13, 2020 23:57:32 GMT 1, kjg — To win an undisclosed bonus prize, correctly answer all the questions below, relating to one of the videos in your original response.
Read carefully. No need to rush. You have until 23:59 UK time on Wednesday 16 September.
Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds - Fifteen Feet of Pure White Snow (2001) - uploaded by mortst
1. On the wall at the back of the stage where the band is performing, there are seven portraits.
1.1 Name the person in the large centre portrait.
1.2 Even in the absence of a clear image, if one were seeking to identify the person to the immediate right of the large centre portrait, what guess would be reasonable, and why?
2. In George Orwell's Animal Farm, the original Seven Commandments are as follows:
1. Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy. 2. Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend. 3. No animal shall wear clothes. 4. No animal shall sleep in a bed. 5. No animal shall drink alcohol. 6. No animal shall kill any other animal. 7. All animals are equal.
What is the apparent name of the "friend" in the video?
3. One of the many people featured in the video includes somebody with whom Nick Cave has a female-singer friend in common. Both of them have worked with this female singer.
In Cave's own case, it involved a song — the separate video for which references the character of a famous book, and a well-known painting by a British artist.
3.1 Name the character, the book, the painting, and the painter.
3.2 Post the relevant separate video, as well as an image of the painting in question.
kjg — To win an undisclosed bonus prize, correctly answer all the questions below, relating to one of the videos in your original response. Read carefully. No need to rush. You have until 23:59 UK time on Wednesday 16 September. Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds - Fifteen Feet of Pure White Snow (2001)- uploaded by mortst1. On the wall at the back of the stage where the band is performing, there are seven portraits. 1.1 Name the person in the large centre portrait. 1.2 Even in the absence of a clear image, if one were seeking to identify the person to the immediate right of the large centre portrait, what guess would be reasonable, and why? 2. In George Orwell's Animal Farm, the original Seven Commandments are as follows: 1. Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy. 2. Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend. 3. No animal shall wear clothes. 4. No animal shall sleep in a bed. 5. No animal shall drink alcohol. 6. No animal shall kill any other animal. 7. All animals are equal.What is the apparent name of the "friend" in the video? 3. One of the many people featured in the video includes somebody with whom Nick Cave has a female-singer friend in common. Both of them have worked with this female singer. In Cave's own case, it involved a song — the separate video for which references the character of a famous book, and a well-known painting by a British artist. 3.1 Name the character, the book, the painting, and the painter. 3.2 Post the relevant separate video, as well as an image of the painting in question.
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kjg
Junior Member
🗨️ 4,388
👍🏻 6,346
December 2014
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THE MET LOTTERY, by kjg on Sept 14, 2020 18:41:32 GMT 1, 1.1 Name the person in the large centre portrait.
The name of the person in that portrait is Konstantin Chernenko. He was the fifth General Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union. He led the Soviet Union from February 1984 until his death in March 1985.
1.2 Even in the absence of a clear image, if one were seeking to identify the person to the immediate right of the large centre portrait, what guess would be reasonable, and why?
As the video is situated in the bureau of the Communist Part of Kazakhstan (as the opening text says) I guess that that person would be the First Secretary of the Communist Party of Kazakhstan which at that time was Dinmukhamed Kunaev.
His portrait is smaller than Chernenko's portrait and placed right of it because despite he is the leader of Kazakhstan, his country is still a Union Republic within the Soviet Union, the union where Chernenko holds sway.
2. In George Orwell's Animal Farm, the original Seven Commandments are as follows:
1. Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy. 2. Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend. 3. No animal shall wear clothes. 4. No animal shall sleep in a bed. 5. No animal shall drink alcohol. 6. No animal shall kill any other animal. 7. All animals are equal.
What is the apparent name of the "friend" in the video?
The ‘friend’ in the video is a dog (a greyhound?) called Harry (Hårry Y Dǿg).
3. One of the many people featured in the video includes somebody with whom Nick Cave has a female-singer friend in common. Both of them have worked with this female singer.
In Cave's own case, it involved a song — the separate video for which references the character of a famous book, and a well-known painting by a British artist.
3.1 Name the character, the book, the painting, and the painter.
The character is called Ophelia, the book is called Hamlet, the painting is also called Ophelia, the painter is John Everett Millais.
3.2 Post the relevant separate video, as well as an image of the painting in question.
1.1 Name the person in the large centre portrait. The name of the person in that portrait is Konstantin Chernenko. He was the fifth General Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union. He led the Soviet Union from February 1984 until his death in March 1985. 1.2 Even in the absence of a clear image, if one were seeking to identify the person to the immediate right of the large centre portrait, what guess would be reasonable, and why? As the video is situated in the bureau of the Communist Part of Kazakhstan (as the opening text says) I guess that that person would be the First Secretary of the Communist Party of Kazakhstan which at that time was Dinmukhamed Kunaev. His portrait is smaller than Chernenko's portrait and placed right of it because despite he is the leader of Kazakhstan, his country is still a Union Republic within the Soviet Union, the union where Chernenko holds sway. 2. In George Orwell's Animal Farm, the original Seven Commandments are as follows: 1. Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy. 2. Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend. 3. No animal shall wear clothes. 4. No animal shall sleep in a bed. 5. No animal shall drink alcohol. 6. No animal shall kill any other animal. 7. All animals are equal. What is the apparent name of the "friend" in the video? The ‘friend’ in the video is a dog (a greyhound?) called Harry (Hårry Y Dǿg). 3. One of the many people featured in the video includes somebody with whom Nick Cave has a female-singer friend in common. Both of them have worked with this female singer. In Cave's own case, it involved a song — the separate video for which references the character of a famous book, and a well-known painting by a British artist. 3.1 Name the character, the book, the painting, and the painter. The character is called Ophelia, the book is called Hamlet, the painting is also called Ophelia, the painter is John Everett Millais. 3.2 Post the relevant separate video, as well as an image of the painting in question.
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met
Junior Member
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June 2009
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THE MET LOTTERY, by met on Sept 15, 2020 5:07:05 GMT 1, 1.1 Name the person in the large centre portrait. The name of the person in that portrait is Konstantin Chernenko. He was the fifth General Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union. He led the Soviet Union from February 1984 until his death in March 1985. 1.2 Even in the absence of a clear image, if one were seeking to identify the person to the immediate right of the large centre portrait, what guess would be reasonable, and why? As the video is situated in the bureau of the Communist Part of Kazakhstan (as the opening text says) I guess that that person would be the First Secretary of the Communist Party of Kazakhstan which at that time was Dinmukhamed Kunaev. His portrait is smaller than Chernenko's portrait and placed right of it because despite he is the leader of Kazakhstan, his country is still a Union Republic within the Soviet Union, the union where Chernenko holds sway. 2. In George Orwell's Animal Farm, the original Seven Commandments are as follows: 1. Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy. 2. Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend. 3. No animal shall wear clothes. 4. No animal shall sleep in a bed. 5. No animal shall drink alcohol. 6. No animal shall kill any other animal. 7. All animals are equal. What is the apparent name of the "friend" in the video? The ‘friend’ in the video is a dog (a greyhound?) called Harry (Hårry Y Dǿg). 3. One of the many people featured in the video includes somebody with whom Nick Cave has a female-singer friend in common. Both of them have worked with this female singer. In Cave's own case, it involved a song — the separate video for which references the character of a famous book, and a well-known painting by a British artist. 3.1 Name the character, the book, the painting, and the painter. The character is called Ophelia, the book is called Hamlet, the painting is also called Ophelia, the painter is John Everett Millais. 3.2 Post the relevant separate video, as well as an image of the painting in question.
Congratulations, kjg.
I didn't expect responses so quickly. Will post reference answers tomorrow (Wednesday), including an alternative I came up with for Question 1.2.
1.1 Name the person in the large centre portrait. The name of the person in that portrait is Konstantin Chernenko. He was the fifth General Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union. He led the Soviet Union from February 1984 until his death in March 1985. 1.2 Even in the absence of a clear image, if one were seeking to identify the person to the immediate right of the large centre portrait, what guess would be reasonable, and why? As the video is situated in the bureau of the Communist Part of Kazakhstan (as the opening text says) I guess that that person would be the First Secretary of the Communist Party of Kazakhstan which at that time was Dinmukhamed Kunaev. His portrait is smaller than Chernenko's portrait and placed right of it because despite he is the leader of Kazakhstan, his country is still a Union Republic within the Soviet Union, the union where Chernenko holds sway. 2. In George Orwell's Animal Farm, the original Seven Commandments are as follows: 1. Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy. 2. Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend. 3. No animal shall wear clothes. 4. No animal shall sleep in a bed. 5. No animal shall drink alcohol. 6. No animal shall kill any other animal. 7. All animals are equal. What is the apparent name of the "friend" in the video? The ‘friend’ in the video is a dog (a greyhound?) called Harry (Hårry Y Dǿg). 3. One of the many people featured in the video includes somebody with whom Nick Cave has a female-singer friend in common. Both of them have worked with this female singer. In Cave's own case, it involved a song — the separate video for which references the character of a famous book, and a well-known painting by a British artist. 3.1 Name the character, the book, the painting, and the painter. The character is called Ophelia, the book is called Hamlet, the painting is also called Ophelia, the painter is John Everett Millais. 3.2 Post the relevant separate video, as well as an image of the painting in question. Congratulations, kjg. I didn't expect responses so quickly. Will post reference answers tomorrow (Wednesday), including an alternative I came up with for Question 1.2.
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Deleted
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THE MET LOTTERY, by Deleted on Sept 15, 2020 5:32:02 GMT 1, Congrats kjg**** !
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kjg
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THE MET LOTTERY, by kjg on Sept 15, 2020 7:52:11 GMT 1, Thanks, met! I had the day off so all the time of the world to answer the bonus questions.
Especially the answer to the first one took quite some time. It made me dig deep into the history of the former Soviet Union. As I am an history buff I liked that digging very much. And my basic knowledge of the Russian language (I took Russian classes when I was 16) helped me translate the sentences in the opening sequence :-)
Thanks, met! I had the day off so all the time of the world to answer the bonus questions.
Especially the answer to the first one took quite some time. It made me dig deep into the history of the former Soviet Union. As I am an history buff I liked that digging very much. And my basic knowledge of the Russian language (I took Russian classes when I was 16) helped me translate the sentences in the opening sequence :-)
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met
Junior Member
🗨️ 2,796
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June 2009
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THE MET LOTTERY, by met on Sept 17, 2020 2:28:55 GMT 1, Thanks, met! I had the day off so all the time of the world to answer the bonus questions. Especially the answer to the first one took quite some time. It made me dig deep into the history of the former Soviet Union. As I am an history buff I liked that digging very much. And my basic knowledge of the Russian language (I took Russian classes when I was 16) helped me translate the sentences in the opening sequence :-)
kjg
Your bonus prize is a hardcover book of two of my favourite novels, Animal Farm and 1984, with an introduction by one of my favourite writers / debaters / thinkers, Christopher Hitchens.
Also included as part of the package is a collectible American magazine with a stencil-image card insert, from two decades ago.
__________
Knowledge always impresses me, but knowledge in itself isn't especially interesting. What I'm far more drawn to is perceptiveness, investigative resourcefulness, tenaciousness, and the ability to problem-solve, including through logic and reasoning.
As is the case with the majority of these competitions, I try to ensure it's possible to work out or discover the answers to questions even if a participant is initially clueless about the subject matter.
__________
REFERENCE ANSWERS (with commentary)
1. On the wall at the back of the stage where the band is performing, there are seven portraits.
1.1 Name the person in the large centre portrait.
The video's retro USSR references and the type of room where filming took place are important here. They suggest that the photos on the wall are of former senior Communist Party officials, presumably from the Secretariat and/or Politburo of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union. With respect to the centre portrait, its comparatively-larger size and position would typically be reserved for the most important figure in the Soviet leadership — the General Secretary of the CPSU.
Researching official portraits of the handful of people who held the position of General Secretary was therefore a natural first step. And given the aesthetic of the video, focusing most closely on the 1970s and 1980s would make sense.
The centre portrait is that of Konstantin Chernenko, who ascended (already in ill health) to the position of General Secretary on 13 February 1984, holding the office until his death on 10 March 1985.
It seems significant to me (especially given the possible political interpretation of Fifteen Feet Of Pure White Snow) that Chernenko was the last of the Soviet old guard before the Mikhail Gorbachev era of glasnost and perestroika:
1.2 Even in the absence of a clear image, if one were seeking to identify the person to the immediate right of the large centre portrait, what guess would be reasonable, and why?
For this purpose, let's assume the six smaller portraits in the video are genuine and historically accurate. It is then very plausible that those to the immediate left and right of the General Secretary are of individuals occupying key roles within the Soviet leadership at the time.
A strong contender for the number 2 position under Chernenko was his ultimate successor, Gorbachev. He would be my best guess for the photo on the right:
__________
kjg — The thought-process description in your response was an enjoyable read.
This was of greater importance to me than actually identifying the portrait. What people think matters less than how they think.
The fact you took Russian classes as a teenager impressed me as well.
Despite lacking the breadth of your foreign-language skills, I was able to find a translation of the opening text. Apparently, it contains a grammatical error, suggesting it wasn't written by someone whose mother tongue is Russian. My understanding is that it roughly translates as "Former Central Committee of the Communist Party of Kazakhstan":
The Wikipedia page* for Fifteen Feet Of Pure White Snow also mentions that filming took place in Kazakhstan.
However, when assessing information available online, the issue of reliability is worth being extra cautious about. With Wikipedia, for example, I've often found the editors are too comfortable simply quoting existing written sources — without taking the requisite additional steps to verify accuracy.
Regarding the Fifteen Feet... video, the reference to a Communist Party premises looks to have been a case of creative and narrative license by the director and artists.
The identity and location of that building in the first image are unclear. But the former seat of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Kazakstan in the mid-1980s was a different edifice altogether — Akimat House on Republic Square in Almaty:
The video was actually shot in East London*, at the old Bethnal Green Town Hall* — which has since been converted into flats and the Town Hall Hotel*. The specific room is now a venue space at the hotel called Bethnal Hall*:
2. In George Orwell's Animal Farm, the original Seven Commandments are as follows:
1. Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy. 2. Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend. 3. No animal shall wear clothes. 4. No animal shall sleep in a bed. 5. No animal shall drink alcohol. 6. No animal shall kill any other animal. 7. All animals are equal.
What is the apparent name of the "friend" in the video?
Wikipedia extract: According to Orwell, the fable reflects events leading up to the Russian Revolution of 1917 and then on into the Stalinist era of the Soviet Union. Orwell, a democratic socialist, was a critic of Joseph Stalin and hostile to Moscow-directed Stalinism, an attitude that was critically shaped by his experiences during the Spanish Civil War. The Soviet Union had become a brutal dictatorship built upon a cult of personality and enforced by a reign of terror. In a letter to Yvonne Davet, Orwell described Animal Farm as a satirical tale against Stalin ("un conte satirique contre Staline"), and in his essay "Why I Write" (1946), wrote that Animal Farm was the first book in which he tried, with full consciousness of what he was doing, "to fuse political purpose and artistic purpose into one whole".*
The "friend" seems to be a whippet. Based on the closing credits of the video, it looks to be named Harry or Hårry Y Døg:
3. One of the many people featured in the video includes somebody with whom Nick Cave has a female-singer friend in common. Both of them have worked with this female singer.
In Cave's case, it resulted in a song — the separate video for which references the character of a famous book, and a well-known painting by a British artist.
Jason Donovan is among those in this video, and he seems to be having a splendid, messed-up time.
The female singer referred to is Kylie Minogue. She left Donovan for Michael Hutchence, the man who introduced her to Nick Cave. Minogue and Cave duetted on Where The Wild Roses Grow, a song the latter had written with Minogue specifically in mind.
3.1 Name the character, the book, the painting, and the painter.
Character: Ophelia Book/play: Hamlet by William Shakespeare Painting: Ophelia (1851–52), in the collection of Tate Britain, London Painter: Sir John Everett Millais
[This question was drafted by me at some point last year. Shortly afterwards and to my chagrin, I realised the answers were immediately available to anyone simply checking the Wikipedia page* of that song. Nevertheless, the subject of Ophelia interested me enough to retain the question.
A similar situation occurred for another competition I was preparing — with respect to the UNKLE video for Rabbit In Your Headlights and it's apparent nod to the memorable road-tunnel scene from Alan Clarke's Made in Britain (1982)*.]
3.2 Post the relevant separate video, as well as an image of the painting in question.
Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds ft. Kylie Minogue - Where The Wild Roses Grow (1995) - uploaded by Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds
NB: Recommended brief conversation between Drs Beth Harris and Steven Zucker at Tate Britain:
Sir John Everett Millais, Ophelia [5:26] - uploaded by Smarthistory on 2 April 2012
Thanks, met! I had the day off so all the time of the world to answer the bonus questions. Especially the answer to the first one took quite some time. It made me dig deep into the history of the former Soviet Union. As I am an history buff I liked that digging very much. And my basic knowledge of the Russian language (I took Russian classes when I was 16) helped me translate the sentences in the opening sequence :-) kjgYour bonus prize is a hardcover book of two of my favourite novels, Animal Farm and 1984, with an introduction by one of my favourite writers / debaters / thinkers, Christopher Hitchens. Also included as part of the package is a collectible American magazine with a stencil-image card insert, from two decades ago. __________ Knowledge always impresses me, but knowledge in itself isn't especially interesting. What I'm far more drawn to is perceptiveness, investigative resourcefulness, tenaciousness, and the ability to problem-solve, including through logic and reasoning. As is the case with the majority of these competitions, I try to ensure it's possible to work out or discover the answers to questions even if a participant is initially clueless about the subject matter. __________ REFERENCE ANSWERS (with commentary) 1. On the wall at the back of the stage where the band is performing, there are seven portraits.
1.1 Name the person in the large centre portrait.The video's retro USSR references and the type of room where filming took place are important here. They suggest that the photos on the wall are of former senior Communist Party officials, presumably from the Secretariat and/or Politburo of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union. With respect to the centre portrait, its comparatively-larger size and position would typically be reserved for the most important figure in the Soviet leadership — the General Secretary of the CPSU. Researching official portraits of the handful of people who held the position of General Secretary was therefore a natural first step. And given the aesthetic of the video, focusing most closely on the 1970s and 1980s would make sense. The centre portrait is that of Konstantin Chernenko, who ascended (already in ill health) to the position of General Secretary on 13 February 1984, holding the office until his death on 10 March 1985. It seems significant to me (especially given the possible political interpretation of Fifteen Feet Of Pure White Snow) that Chernenko was the last of the Soviet old guard before the Mikhail Gorbachev era of glasnost and perestroika: 1.2 Even in the absence of a clear image, if one were seeking to identify the person to the immediate right of the large centre portrait, what guess would be reasonable, and why?For this purpose, let's assume the six smaller portraits in the video are genuine and historically accurate. It is then very plausible that those to the immediate left and right of the General Secretary are of individuals occupying key roles within the Soviet leadership at the time. A strong contender for the number 2 position under Chernenko was his ultimate successor, Gorbachev. He would be my best guess for the photo on the right: __________ kjg — The thought-process description in your response was an enjoyable read. This was of greater importance to me than actually identifying the portrait. What people think matters less than how they think. The fact you took Russian classes as a teenager impressed me as well. Despite lacking the breadth of your foreign-language skills, I was able to find a translation of the opening text. Apparently, it contains a grammatical error, suggesting it wasn't written by someone whose mother tongue is Russian. My understanding is that it roughly translates as "Former Central Committee of the Communist Party of Kazakhstan": The Wikipedia page * for Fifteen Feet Of Pure White Snow also mentions that filming took place in Kazakhstan. However, when assessing information available online, the issue of reliability is worth being extra cautious about. With Wikipedia, for example, I've often found the editors are too comfortable simply quoting existing written sources — without taking the requisite additional steps to verify accuracy. Regarding the Fifteen Feet... video, the reference to a Communist Party premises looks to have been a case of creative and narrative license by the director and artists. The identity and location of that building in the first image are unclear. But the former seat of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Kazakstan in the mid-1980s was a different edifice altogether — Akimat House on Republic Square in Almaty: The video was actually shot in East London*, at the old Bethnal Green Town Hall * — which has since been converted into flats and the Town Hall Hotel *. The specific room is now a venue space at the hotel called Bethnal Hall*: 2. In George Orwell's Animal Farm, the original Seven Commandments are as follows:
1. Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy. 2. Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend. 3. No animal shall wear clothes. 4. No animal shall sleep in a bed. 5. No animal shall drink alcohol. 6. No animal shall kill any other animal. 7. All animals are equal.
What is the apparent name of the "friend" in the video?Wikipedia extract: According to Orwell, the fable reflects events leading up to the Russian Revolution of 1917 and then on into the Stalinist era of the Soviet Union. Orwell, a democratic socialist, was a critic of Joseph Stalin and hostile to Moscow-directed Stalinism, an attitude that was critically shaped by his experiences during the Spanish Civil War. The Soviet Union had become a brutal dictatorship built upon a cult of personality and enforced by a reign of terror. In a letter to Yvonne Davet, Orwell described Animal Farm as a satirical tale against Stalin ("un conte satirique contre Staline"), and in his essay "Why I Write" (1946), wrote that Animal Farm was the first book in which he tried, with full consciousness of what he was doing, "to fuse political purpose and artistic purpose into one whole".*The "friend" seems to be a whippet. Based on the closing credits of the video, it looks to be named Harry or Hårry Y Døg: 3. One of the many people featured in the video includes somebody with whom Nick Cave has a female-singer friend in common. Both of them have worked with this female singer.
In Cave's case, it resulted in a song — the separate video for which references the character of a famous book, and a well-known painting by a British artist.Jason Donovan is among those in this video, and he seems to be having a splendid, messed-up time. The female singer referred to is Kylie Minogue. She left Donovan for Michael Hutchence, the man who introduced her to Nick Cave. Minogue and Cave duetted on Where The Wild Roses Grow, a song the latter had written with Minogue specifically in mind. 3.1 Name the character, the book, the painting, and the painter.Character: Ophelia Book/play: Hamlet by William Shakespeare Painting: Ophelia (1851–52), in the collection of Tate Britain, London Painter: Sir John Everett Millais [This question was drafted by me at some point last year. Shortly afterwards and to my chagrin, I realised the answers were immediately available to anyone simply checking the Wikipedia page* of that song. Nevertheless, the subject of Ophelia interested me enough to retain the question.
A similar situation occurred for another competition I was preparing — with respect to the UNKLE video for Rabbit In Your Headlights and it's apparent nod to the memorable road-tunnel scene from Alan Clarke's Made in Britain (1982)*.]3.2 Post the relevant separate video, as well as an image of the painting in question.Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds ft. Kylie Minogue - Where The Wild Roses Grow (1995)- uploaded by Nick Cave & The Bad SeedsNB: Recommended brief conversation between Drs Beth Harris and Steven Zucker at Tate Britain: Sir John Everett Millais, Ophelia [5:26]- uploaded by Smarthistory on 2 April 2012
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kjg
Junior Member
🗨️ 4,388
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December 2014
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THE MET LOTTERY, by kjg on Sept 17, 2020 8:26:06 GMT 1, Thank you very much, met. I am looking forward to the book and the magazine!
Your reference answer to question 1.2 is a reminder for me to look better and deeper next time, and not to take everything I find on the internet for granted.
So I had a coffee an hour ago, and I did some digging.
I found out that the men on the pictures were indeed occupying key roles within the Soviet leadership at that time: they were all members of the Politburo of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union. The Politburo was the the supreme policy-making body of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union.
I found an eBay listing with 23 pictures, which, as far as I can see, contains all the pictures shown on the wall in Nick Cave’s video:
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Photo-Portraits-Politburo-Communist-Party-USSR-23pcs/143536636170
This series of photos does indeed include the picture of Chernenko, the picture of Gorbachev (to the right of the larger picture of Chernenko in the video) and that of Kunaev (to the left of the larger picture in the video).
The eBay listing mentions 1979 as the year in which those pictures were published. So my guess is that these men are all members of the 25th Politburo. They were elected during the 25th Congress of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union in Moscow. The congress lasted from February 24 to March 5, 1976.
Thank you very much, met. I am looking forward to the book and the magazine! Your reference answer to question 1.2 is a reminder for me to look better and deeper next time, and not to take everything I find on the internet for granted. So I had a coffee an hour ago, and I did some digging. I found out that the men on the pictures were indeed occupying key roles within the Soviet leadership at that time: they were all members of the Politburo of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union. The Politburo was the the supreme policy-making body of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union. I found an eBay listing with 23 pictures, which, as far as I can see, contains all the pictures shown on the wall in Nick Cave’s video: www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Photo-Portraits-Politburo-Communist-Party-USSR-23pcs/143536636170This series of photos does indeed include the picture of Chernenko, the picture of Gorbachev (to the right of the larger picture of Chernenko in the video) and that of Kunaev (to the left of the larger picture in the video). The eBay listing mentions 1979 as the year in which those pictures were published. So my guess is that these men are all members of the 25th Politburo. They were elected during the 25th Congress of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union in Moscow. The congress lasted from February 24 to March 5, 1976.
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kjg
Junior Member
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👍🏻 6,346
December 2014
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THE MET LOTTERY, by kjg on Sept 21, 2020 15:14:16 GMT 1, Hi met! Your package just arrived, containing the famous cookies, and, because I answered the bonus questions correctly, the edition with the two books by Orwell, the essay by Orwell and of course the magazine containing a stencil from the most talked about artist on this forum. Many thanks, it felt like it's Christmas already :-)
I have to say that I always enjoy taking part in your competitions and I would encourage the other forum members to participate as well in the near future. Not only because you can win those delicious cookies and other attractive prizes, but also because these competitions challenge you to look beyond what you think you see and what you think you know. And that's not such a bad thing to do nowadays.
Thanks again!
Hi met! Your package just arrived, containing the famous cookies, and, because I answered the bonus questions correctly, the edition with the two books by Orwell, the essay by Orwell and of course the magazine containing a stencil from the most talked about artist on this forum. Many thanks, it felt like it's Christmas already :-) I have to say that I always enjoy taking part in your competitions and I would encourage the other forum members to participate as well in the near future. Not only because you can win those delicious cookies and other attractive prizes, but also because these competitions challenge you to look beyond what you think you see and what you think you know. And that's not such a bad thing to do nowadays. Thanks again!
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pjc
New Member
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July 2020
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THE MET LOTTERY, by pjc on Oct 25, 2020 20:43:16 GMT 1, Thanks, met! I had the day off so all the time of the world to answer the bonus questions. Especially the answer to the first one took quite some time. It made me dig deep into the history of the former Soviet Union. As I am an history buff I liked that digging very much. And my basic knowledge of the Russian language (I took Russian classes when I was 16) helped me translate the sentences in the opening sequence :-) kjg Your bonus prize is a hardcover book of two of my favourite novels, Animal Farm and 1984, with an introduction by one of my favourite writers / debaters / thinkers, Christopher Hitchens. Also included as part of the package is a collectible American magazine with a stencil-image card insert, from two decades ago. __________ Knowledge always impresses me, but knowledge in itself isn't especially interesting. What I'm far more drawn to is perceptiveness, investigative resourcefulness, tenaciousness, and the ability to problem-solve, including through logic and reasoning. As is the case with the majority of these competitions, I try to ensure it's possible to work out or discover the answers to questions even if a participant is initially clueless about the subject matter. __________ REFERENCE ANSWERS (with commentary) 1. On the wall at the back of the stage where the band is performing, there are seven portraits.
1.1 Name the person in the large centre portrait.The video's retro USSR references and the type of room where filming took place are important here. They suggest that the photos on the wall are of former senior Communist Party officials, presumably from the Secretariat and/or Politburo of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union. With respect to the centre portrait, its comparatively-larger size and position would typically be reserved for the most important figure in the Soviet leadership — the General Secretary of the CPSU. Researching official portraits of the handful of people who held the position of General Secretary was therefore a natural first step. And given the aesthetic of the video, focusing most closely on the 1970s and 1980s would make sense. The centre portrait is that of Konstantin Chernenko, who ascended (already in ill health) to the position of General Secretary on 13 February 1984, holding the office until his death on 10 March 1985. It seems significant to me (especially given the possible political interpretation of Fifteen Feet Of Pure White Snow) that Chernenko was the last of the Soviet old guard before the Mikhail Gorbachev era of glasnost and perestroika: 1.2 Even in the absence of a clear image, if one were seeking to identify the person to the immediate right of the large centre portrait, what guess would be reasonable, and why?For this purpose, let's assume the six smaller portraits in the video are genuine and historically accurate. It is then very plausible that those to the immediate left and right of the General Secretary are of individuals occupying key roles within the Soviet leadership at the time. A strong contender for the number 2 position under Chernenko was his ultimate successor, Gorbachev. He would be my best guess for the photo on the right: __________ kjg — The thought-process description in your response was an enjoyable read. This was of greater importance to me than actually identifying the portrait. What people think matters less than how they think. The fact you took Russian classes as a teenager impressed me as well. Despite lacking the breadth of your foreign-language skills, I was able to find a translation of the opening text. Apparently, it contains a grammatical error, suggesting it wasn't written by someone whose mother tongue is Russian. My understanding is that it roughly translates as "Former Central Committee of the Communist Party of Kazakhstan": The Wikipedia page * for Fifteen Feet Of Pure White Snow also mentions that filming took place in Kazakhstan. However, when assessing information available online, the issue of reliability is worth being extra cautious about. With Wikipedia, for example, I've often found the editors are too comfortable simply quoting existing written sources — without taking the requisite additional steps to verify accuracy. Regarding the Fifteen Feet... video, the reference to a Communist Party premises looks to have been a case of creative and narrative license by the director and artists. The identity and location of that building in the first image are unclear. But the former seat of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Kazakstan in the mid-1980s was a different edifice altogether — Akimat House on Republic Square in Almaty: The video was actually shot in East London*, at the old Bethnal Green Town Hall * — which has since been converted into flats and the Town Hall Hotel *. The specific room is now a venue space at the hotel called Bethnal Hall*: 2. In George Orwell's Animal Farm, the original Seven Commandments are as follows:
1. Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy. 2. Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend. 3. No animal shall wear clothes. 4. No animal shall sleep in a bed. 5. No animal shall drink alcohol. 6. No animal shall kill any other animal. 7. All animals are equal.
What is the apparent name of the "friend" in the video?Wikipedia extract: According to Orwell, the fable reflects events leading up to the Russian Revolution of 1917 and then on into the Stalinist era of the Soviet Union. Orwell, a democratic socialist, was a critic of Joseph Stalin and hostile to Moscow-directed Stalinism, an attitude that was critically shaped by his experiences during the Spanish Civil War. The Soviet Union had become a brutal dictatorship built upon a cult of personality and enforced by a reign of terror. In a letter to Yvonne Davet, Orwell described Animal Farm as a satirical tale against Stalin ("un conte satirique contre Staline"), and in his essay "Why I Write" (1946), wrote that Animal Farm was the first book in which he tried, with full consciousness of what he was doing, "to fuse political purpose and artistic purpose into one whole".*The "friend" seems to be a whippet. Based on the closing credits of the video, it looks to be named Harry or Hårry Y Døg: 3. One of the many people featured in the video includes somebody with whom Nick Cave has a female-singer friend in common. Both of them have worked with this female singer.
In Cave's case, it resulted in a song — the separate video for which references the character of a famous book, and a well-known painting by a British artist.Jason Donovan is among those in this video, and he seems to be having a splendid, messed-up time. The female singer referred to is Kylie Minogue. She left Donovan for Michael Hutchence, the man who introduced her to Nick Cave. Minogue and Cave duetted on Where The Wild Roses Grow, a song the latter had written with Minogue specifically in mind. 3.1 Name the character, the book, the painting, and the painter.Character: Ophelia Book/play: Hamlet by William Shakespeare Painting: Ophelia (1851–52), in the collection of Tate Britain, London Painter: Sir John Everett Millais [This question was drafted by me at some point last year. Shortly afterwards and to my chagrin, I realised the answers were immediately available to anyone simply checking the Wikipedia page* of that song. Nevertheless, the subject of Ophelia interested me enough to retain the question.
A similar situation occurred for another competition I was preparing — with respect to the UNKLE video for Rabbit In Your Headlights and it's apparent nod to the memorable road-tunnel scene from Alan Clarke's Made in Britain (1982)*.]3.2 Post the relevant separate video, as well as an image of the painting in question.Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds ft. Kylie Minogue - Where The Wild Roses Grow (1995)- uploaded by Nick Cave & The Bad SeedsNB: Recommended brief conversation between Drs Beth Harris and Steven Zucker at Tate Britain: Sir John Everett Millais, Ophelia [5:26]- uploaded by Smarthistory on 2 April 2012 A little off topic, but boy do I miss Christopher Hitchens...
Thanks, met! I had the day off so all the time of the world to answer the bonus questions. Especially the answer to the first one took quite some time. It made me dig deep into the history of the former Soviet Union. As I am an history buff I liked that digging very much. And my basic knowledge of the Russian language (I took Russian classes when I was 16) helped me translate the sentences in the opening sequence :-) kjg Your bonus prize is a hardcover book of two of my favourite novels, Animal Farm and 1984, with an introduction by one of my favourite writers / debaters / thinkers, Christopher Hitchens. Also included as part of the package is a collectible American magazine with a stencil-image card insert, from two decades ago. __________ Knowledge always impresses me, but knowledge in itself isn't especially interesting. What I'm far more drawn to is perceptiveness, investigative resourcefulness, tenaciousness, and the ability to problem-solve, including through logic and reasoning. As is the case with the majority of these competitions, I try to ensure it's possible to work out or discover the answers to questions even if a participant is initially clueless about the subject matter. __________ REFERENCE ANSWERS (with commentary) 1. On the wall at the back of the stage where the band is performing, there are seven portraits.
1.1 Name the person in the large centre portrait.The video's retro USSR references and the type of room where filming took place are important here. They suggest that the photos on the wall are of former senior Communist Party officials, presumably from the Secretariat and/or Politburo of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union. With respect to the centre portrait, its comparatively-larger size and position would typically be reserved for the most important figure in the Soviet leadership — the General Secretary of the CPSU. Researching official portraits of the handful of people who held the position of General Secretary was therefore a natural first step. And given the aesthetic of the video, focusing most closely on the 1970s and 1980s would make sense. The centre portrait is that of Konstantin Chernenko, who ascended (already in ill health) to the position of General Secretary on 13 February 1984, holding the office until his death on 10 March 1985. It seems significant to me (especially given the possible political interpretation of Fifteen Feet Of Pure White Snow) that Chernenko was the last of the Soviet old guard before the Mikhail Gorbachev era of glasnost and perestroika: 1.2 Even in the absence of a clear image, if one were seeking to identify the person to the immediate right of the large centre portrait, what guess would be reasonable, and why?For this purpose, let's assume the six smaller portraits in the video are genuine and historically accurate. It is then very plausible that those to the immediate left and right of the General Secretary are of individuals occupying key roles within the Soviet leadership at the time. A strong contender for the number 2 position under Chernenko was his ultimate successor, Gorbachev. He would be my best guess for the photo on the right: __________ kjg — The thought-process description in your response was an enjoyable read. This was of greater importance to me than actually identifying the portrait. What people think matters less than how they think. The fact you took Russian classes as a teenager impressed me as well. Despite lacking the breadth of your foreign-language skills, I was able to find a translation of the opening text. Apparently, it contains a grammatical error, suggesting it wasn't written by someone whose mother tongue is Russian. My understanding is that it roughly translates as "Former Central Committee of the Communist Party of Kazakhstan": The Wikipedia page * for Fifteen Feet Of Pure White Snow also mentions that filming took place in Kazakhstan. However, when assessing information available online, the issue of reliability is worth being extra cautious about. With Wikipedia, for example, I've often found the editors are too comfortable simply quoting existing written sources — without taking the requisite additional steps to verify accuracy. Regarding the Fifteen Feet... video, the reference to a Communist Party premises looks to have been a case of creative and narrative license by the director and artists. The identity and location of that building in the first image are unclear. But the former seat of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Kazakstan in the mid-1980s was a different edifice altogether — Akimat House on Republic Square in Almaty: The video was actually shot in East London*, at the old Bethnal Green Town Hall * — which has since been converted into flats and the Town Hall Hotel *. The specific room is now a venue space at the hotel called Bethnal Hall*: 2. In George Orwell's Animal Farm, the original Seven Commandments are as follows:
1. Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy. 2. Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend. 3. No animal shall wear clothes. 4. No animal shall sleep in a bed. 5. No animal shall drink alcohol. 6. No animal shall kill any other animal. 7. All animals are equal.
What is the apparent name of the "friend" in the video?Wikipedia extract: According to Orwell, the fable reflects events leading up to the Russian Revolution of 1917 and then on into the Stalinist era of the Soviet Union. Orwell, a democratic socialist, was a critic of Joseph Stalin and hostile to Moscow-directed Stalinism, an attitude that was critically shaped by his experiences during the Spanish Civil War. The Soviet Union had become a brutal dictatorship built upon a cult of personality and enforced by a reign of terror. In a letter to Yvonne Davet, Orwell described Animal Farm as a satirical tale against Stalin ("un conte satirique contre Staline"), and in his essay "Why I Write" (1946), wrote that Animal Farm was the first book in which he tried, with full consciousness of what he was doing, "to fuse political purpose and artistic purpose into one whole".*The "friend" seems to be a whippet. Based on the closing credits of the video, it looks to be named Harry or Hårry Y Døg: 3. One of the many people featured in the video includes somebody with whom Nick Cave has a female-singer friend in common. Both of them have worked with this female singer.
In Cave's case, it resulted in a song — the separate video for which references the character of a famous book, and a well-known painting by a British artist.Jason Donovan is among those in this video, and he seems to be having a splendid, messed-up time. The female singer referred to is Kylie Minogue. She left Donovan for Michael Hutchence, the man who introduced her to Nick Cave. Minogue and Cave duetted on Where The Wild Roses Grow, a song the latter had written with Minogue specifically in mind. 3.1 Name the character, the book, the painting, and the painter.Character: Ophelia Book/play: Hamlet by William Shakespeare Painting: Ophelia (1851–52), in the collection of Tate Britain, London Painter: Sir John Everett Millais [This question was drafted by me at some point last year. Shortly afterwards and to my chagrin, I realised the answers were immediately available to anyone simply checking the Wikipedia page* of that song. Nevertheless, the subject of Ophelia interested me enough to retain the question.
A similar situation occurred for another competition I was preparing — with respect to the UNKLE video for Rabbit In Your Headlights and it's apparent nod to the memorable road-tunnel scene from Alan Clarke's Made in Britain (1982)*.]3.2 Post the relevant separate video, as well as an image of the painting in question.Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds ft. Kylie Minogue - Where The Wild Roses Grow (1995)- uploaded by Nick Cave & The Bad SeedsNB: Recommended brief conversation between Drs Beth Harris and Steven Zucker at Tate Britain: Sir John Everett Millais, Ophelia [5:26]- uploaded by Smarthistory on 2 April 2012A little off topic, but boy do I miss Christopher Hitchens...
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met
Junior Member
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June 2009
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THE MET LOTTERY, by met on Feb 15, 2021 2:26:05 GMT 1, Competition rules
1. Eligibility
Members are free to participate unless disqualified under points 8.1, 8.2 and 8.3 in this post.
Briefly:
(i) you need a minimum of 91 existing (undeleted) posts; (ii) no fraudsters or thieves; and (iii) those with more than one account here are unwelcome (bar the limited exception set out in point 8.3).
2. Answer requirements
2.1 Answers for any competition must be clearly expressed, in a single unedited post. Multiple attempts by a member at responding to the same question are not permitted — including by editing their original answer, or deleting their original answer and posting a revised one.
2.2 For each question, please provide a single answer. Scattergun approaches to responding (e.g. "The answer could be [x], but it might also be [y]") will be disqualified in the interest of fairness.
2.3 While advance content posted may sometimes allow members to predict the competition questions that will later follow, the only answers considered will be those received after the questions have actually been posted.
3. Prize
Competition winners will be promptly contacted via private message for their name and shipping address, or the name and shipping address of their onward giftee.
Unless otherwise specified, the prize will be cookies.
Competition rules1. EligibilityMembers are free to participate unless disqualified under points 8.1, 8.2 and 8.3 in this post. Briefly: (i) you need a minimum of 91 existing (undeleted) posts; (ii) no fraudsters or thieves; and (iii) those with more than one account here are unwelcome (bar the limited exception set out in point 8.3). 2. Answer requirements2.1 Answers for any competition must be clearly expressed, in a single unedited post. Multiple attempts by a member at responding to the same question are not permitted — including by editing their original answer, or deleting their original answer and posting a revised one. 2.2 For each question, please provide a single answer. Scattergun approaches to responding (e.g. "The answer could be [x], but it might also be [y]") will be disqualified in the interest of fairness. 2.3 While advance content posted may sometimes allow members to predict the competition questions that will later follow, the only answers considered will be those received after the questions have actually been posted. 3. PrizeCompetition winners will be promptly contacted via private message for their name and shipping address, or the name and shipping address of their onward giftee. Unless otherwise specified, the prize will be cookies.
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met
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THE MET LOTTERY, by met on Feb 15, 2021 2:47:54 GMT 1, A.
Édouard Manet, Le Déjeuner sur l'herbe** (1862–63), Oil on canvas, 208 × 264.5 cm
Marcantonio Raimondi / After Raphael, The Judgement of Paris* (circa. 1510–20), Engraving, 29.1 x 43.7 cm Collaboration between the painter Raphael and the engraver Raimondi.
B.
Romper Stomper (1992) - Mall scene (jacket) With Russell Crowe (Hando), Daniel Pollock (Davey) and Jacqueline McKenzie (Gabrielle). Filmed in Footscray, a suburb of Melbourne. - uploaded by Josh Busfield aka bitterphase
Christiane F. (1981) - Mall / Heroes scene (loose change) With Natja Brunckhorst (Christiane F.) and Thomas Haustein (Detlev). Filmed at the Europa-Center, Breitscheidplatz, Berlin (West Berlin at the time). - uploaded by felix
C.
Garbage (featuring Brody Dalle) - Girls Talk (2014) - uploaded by Garbage
Placebo - Meds (2006) - uploaded by PLACEBO
________________
At around 20:00 UK time on Wednesday 17 February, I'll quote this post and add one or more questions or instructions. The first member to answer correctly, wins.
A.Édouard Manet, Le Déjeuner sur l'herbe** (1862–63), Oil on canvas, 208 × 264.5 cm Marcantonio Raimondi / After Raphael, The Judgement of Paris* (circa. 1510–20), Engraving, 29.1 x 43.7 cm Collaboration between the painter Raphael and the engraver Raimondi. B.Romper Stomper (1992) - Mall scene (jacket)With Russell Crowe (Hando), Daniel Pollock (Davey) and Jacqueline McKenzie (Gabrielle). Filmed in Footscray, a suburb of Melbourne. - uploaded by Josh Busfield aka bitterphaseChristiane F. (1981) - Mall / Heroes scene (loose change)With Natja Brunckhorst (Christiane F.) and Thomas Haustein (Detlev). Filmed at the Europa-Center, Breitscheidplatz, Berlin (West Berlin at the time). - uploaded by felixC.Garbage (featuring Brody Dalle) - Girls Talk (2014)- uploaded by GarbagePlacebo - Meds (2006)- uploaded by PLACEBO________________ At around 20:00 UK time on Wednesday 17 February, I'll quote this post and add one or more questions or instructions. The first member to answer correctly, wins.
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met
Junior Member
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THE MET LOTTERY, by met on Feb 15, 2021 2:57:31 GMT 1, Can you specify if the cookies do or do not contain gluten? The cookies do contain gluten.
If that's an issue for any competition winner, I'm confident we'd be able to work out an acceptable replacement prize.
Can you specify if the cookies do or do not contain gluten? The cookies do contain gluten. If that's an issue for any competition winner, I'm confident we'd be able to work out an acceptable replacement prize.
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met
Junior Member
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June 2009
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THE MET LOTTERY, by met on Feb 15, 2021 3:24:39 GMT 1, A.
Key & Peele - You Can Do Anything - uploaded by Key & Peele
B.
DoubleSpeak, How to Lie without Lying - uploaded by What I've Learned
1989 C-SPAN Interview: William Lutz – "Doublespeak" - uploaded by Ahamo
C.
Jonathan Haidt - The moral roots of liberals and conservatives (TED2008, Monterey, California, February 2008) - uploaded by TED-Ed
What is a 'Bigoteer'? (Pt. 2) | Tim Ferriss | LIFESTYLE | Rubin Report - uploaded by The Rubin Report on 22 December 2016
________________
NB: This competition will have a different format to the previous ones — by incorporating a qualifying round for up to five members.
At around 20:00 UK time on Thursday 18 February, I'll quote this post and add a single question.
The first five members to give a correct answer will be invited to participate in Stage 2. There will be multiple correct answers to choose from. For an answer to qualify, it must not be the same as any of the ones given by other members who may have already qualified.
Stage 2 will involve a leisurely task. Each qualifying member (up to five in total) who successfully completes that task will win the competition.
A.
Key & Peele - You Can Do Anything - uploaded by Key & Peele
B.
DoubleSpeak, How to Lie without Lying - uploaded by What I've Learned
1989 C-SPAN Interview: William Lutz – "Doublespeak" - uploaded by Ahamo
C.
Jonathan Haidt - The moral roots of liberals and conservatives (TED2008, Monterey, California, February 2008) - uploaded by TED-Ed
What is a 'Bigoteer'? (Pt. 2) | Tim Ferriss | LIFESTYLE | Rubin Report - uploaded by The Rubin Report on 22 December 2016
________________
NB: This competition will have a different format to the previous ones — by incorporating a qualifying round for up to five members.
At around 20:00 UK time on Thursday 18 February, I'll quote this post and add a single question.
The first five members to give a correct answer will be invited to participate in Stage 2. There will be multiple correct answers to choose from. For an answer to qualify, it must not be the same as any of the ones given by other members who may have already qualified.
Stage 2 will involve a leisurely task. Each qualifying member (up to five in total) who successfully completes that task will win the competition.
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met
Junior Member
🗨️ 2,796
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June 2009
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THE MET LOTTERY, by met on Feb 16, 2021 23:55:36 GMT 1, UK-based members are likely to have an advantage with this particular competition.
A.
B.
Imagine seeing this band live. You'd feel like Sailor Ripley watching Powermad at The Hurricane.
Maximum The Hormone - Yoshū Fukushū (Preparing for Revenge) (2013) - uploaded by マキシマム ザ ホルモン公式
Maximum The Hormone - A-L-I-E-N (2013) - uploaded by MaximumHormoneThe
Maximum The Hormone (featuring Nyango Star) - Shimi (Live in 2019) Nyango Star is a personal hero of mine. In this video, Nao (normally on drums) can be heard on vocals in the background. - uploaded by Nyango Star にゃんごすたー
C.
UNKLE (featuring Ian Brown) - Be There (1999) - uploaded by UNKLEofficial
________________
At around 20:00 UK time on Monday 22 February, I'll quote this post and add one or more questions or instructions. The first member to answer correctly, wins.
UK-based members are likely to have an advantage with this particular competition. A.B.Imagine seeing this band live. You'd feel like Sailor Ripley watching Powermad at The Hurricane. Maximum The Hormone - Yoshū Fukushū (Preparing for Revenge) (2013)- uploaded by マキシマム ザ ホルモン公式Maximum The Hormone - A-L-I-E-N (2013)- uploaded by MaximumHormoneTheMaximum The Hormone (featuring Nyango Star) - Shimi (Live in 2019)Nyango Star is a personal hero of mine. In this video, Nao (normally on drums) can be heard on vocals in the background. - uploaded by Nyango Star にゃんごすたーC.UNKLE (featuring Ian Brown) - Be There (1999)- uploaded by UNKLEofficial________________ At around 20:00 UK time on Monday 22 February, I'll quote this post and add one or more questions or instructions. The first member to answer correctly, wins.
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met
Junior Member
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June 2009
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THE MET LOTTERY, by met on Feb 17, 2021 1:21:19 GMT 1, A.
B.
C.
Would you sacrifice one person to save five? - Eleanor Nelsen [4:55] - uploaded by TED-Ed
Are You a Psychopath? Take the Test! | Kevin Dutton | Big Think [4:33] - uploaded by Big Think
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_problem
D.
The Iceman Interview - Analysis of Kuklinski [10:05] - uploaded by Mike M.
[Comment by YouTube user, Will S:
Kuklinski: “What do you think of me”.
Me Interviewing him: “I think you are a very kind and decent man. Guard, we’re all done here”]
Provided they're willing to overlook the distractingly melodramatic tone and music, interested members can watch here* the three HBO documentaries on Richard Kuklinski* in full:
(i) The Iceman Tapes: Conversations with a Killer (1992) [0:00–47:02]; (ii) The Iceman Confesses: Secrets of a Mafia Hitman (2001) [47:03–129:55]; and (iii) The Iceman and the Psychiatrist (2002)[129:56–2:19:57].
E.
________________
At around 20:00 UK time on Tuesday 23 February, I'll quote this post and add one or more questions or instructions. The first member to answer correctly, wins.
A.B.C.Would you sacrifice one person to save five? - Eleanor Nelsen [4:55]- uploaded by TED-EdAre You a Psychopath? Take the Test! | Kevin Dutton | Big Think [4:33]- uploaded by Big Thinken.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_problemD.The Iceman Interview - Analysis of Kuklinski [10:05]- uploaded by Mike M.[Comment by You Tube user, Will S: Kuklinski: “What do you think of me”.
Me Interviewing him: “I think you are a very kind and decent man. Guard, we’re all done here”] Provided they're willing to overlook the distractingly melodramatic tone and music, interested members can watch here * the three HBO documentaries on Richard Kuklinski* in full: (i) The Iceman Tapes: Conversations with a Killer (1992) [0:00–47:02]; (ii) The Iceman Confesses: Secrets of a Mafia Hitman (2001) [47:03–129:55]; and (iii) The Iceman and the Psychiatrist (2002)[129:56–2:19:57]. E.________________ At around 20:00 UK time on Tuesday 23 February, I'll quote this post and add one or more questions or instructions. The first member to answer correctly, wins.
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met
Junior Member
🗨️ 2,796
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June 2009
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THE MET LOTTERY, by met on Feb 17, 2021 21:00:00 GMT 1, A.Édouard Manet, Le Déjeuner sur l'herbe** (1862–63), Oil on canvas, 208 × 264.5 cm Marcantonio Raimondi / After Raphael, The Judgement of Paris* (circa. 1510–20), Engraving, 29.1 x 43.7 cm Collaboration between the painter Raphael and the engraver Raimondi. B.Romper Stomper (1992) - Mall scene (jacket)With Russell Crowe (Hando), Daniel Pollock (Davey) and Jacqueline McKenzie (Gabrielle). Filmed in Footscray, a suburb of Melbourne. - uploaded by Josh Busfield aka bitterphaseChristiane F. (1981) - Mall / Heroes scene (loose change)With Natja Brunckhorst (Christiane F.) and Thomas Haustein (Detlev). Filmed at the Europa-Center, Breitscheidplatz, Berlin (West Berlin at the time). - uploaded by felixC.Garbage (featuring Brody Dalle) - Girls Talk (2014)- uploaded by GarbagePlacebo - Meds (2006)- uploaded by PLACEBO________________ At around 20:00 UK time on Wednesday 17 February, I'll quote this post and add one or more questions or instructions. The first member to answer correctly, wins.
QUESTION
The pairing of works that are featured here rests on a general theme of artistic sources, influences, and (perhaps coincidental) similarities.
This was a red herring — at least with respect to the competition question, which focuses exclusively on the last piece:
In the video for Meds, the francophile and Placebo vocalist-guitarist, Brian Molko, experiences multiple hallucinations. One of these involves a framed print hanging on the wall in his hotel room. The young woman depicted in the image winks at him.
Name the artist who painted the original image, its title, and its year of creation.
________________
I need to step away from my laptop now, but will be back online tomorrow (Thursday) in the late morning UK time to check any answers.
In case no eligible member responds correctly beforehand, answers will be posted in 48 hours — at around 20:00 UK time on Friday 19 February.
A.Édouard Manet, Le Déjeuner sur l'herbe** (1862–63), Oil on canvas, 208 × 264.5 cm Marcantonio Raimondi / After Raphael, The Judgement of Paris* (circa. 1510–20), Engraving, 29.1 x 43.7 cm Collaboration between the painter Raphael and the engraver Raimondi. B.Romper Stomper (1992) - Mall scene (jacket)With Russell Crowe (Hando), Daniel Pollock (Davey) and Jacqueline McKenzie (Gabrielle). Filmed in Footscray, a suburb of Melbourne. - uploaded by Josh Busfield aka bitterphaseChristiane F. (1981) - Mall / Heroes scene (loose change)With Natja Brunckhorst (Christiane F.) and Thomas Haustein (Detlev). Filmed at the Europa-Center, Breitscheidplatz, Berlin (West Berlin at the time). - uploaded by felixC.Garbage (featuring Brody Dalle) - Girls Talk (2014)- uploaded by GarbagePlacebo - Meds (2006)- uploaded by PLACEBO________________ At around 20:00 UK time on Wednesday 17 February, I'll quote this post and add one or more questions or instructions. The first member to answer correctly, wins. QUESTIONThe pairing of works that are featured here rests on a general theme of artistic sources, influences, and (perhaps coincidental) similarities. This was a red herring — at least with respect to the competition question, which focuses exclusively on the last piece: In the video for Meds, the francophile and Placebo vocalist-guitarist, Brian Molko, experiences multiple hallucinations. One of these involves a framed print hanging on the wall in his hotel room. The young woman depicted in the image winks at him. Name the artist who painted the original image, its title, and its year of creation. ________________ I need to step away from my laptop now, but will be back online tomorrow (Thursday) in the late morning UK time to check any answers. In case no eligible member responds correctly beforehand, answers will be posted in 48 hours — at around 20:00 UK time on Friday 19 February.
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kjg
Junior Member
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December 2014
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THE MET LOTTERY, by kjg on Feb 17, 2021 21:32:11 GMT 1, A.Édouard Manet, Le Déjeuner sur l'herbe** (1862–63), Oil on canvas, 208 × 264.5 cm Marcantonio Raimondi / After Raphael, The Judgement of Paris* (circa. 1510–20), Engraving, 29.1 x 43.7 cm Collaboration between the painter Raphael and the engraver Raimondi. B.Romper Stomper (1992) - Mall scene (jacket)With Russell Crowe (Hando), Daniel Pollock (Davey) and Jacqueline McKenzie (Gabrielle). Filmed in Footscray, a suburb of Melbourne. - uploaded by Josh Busfield aka bitterphaseChristiane F. (1981) - Mall / Heroes scene (loose change)With Natja Brunckhorst (Christiane F.) and Thomas Haustein (Detlev). Filmed at the Europa-Center, Breitscheidplatz, Berlin (West Berlin at the time). - uploaded by felixC.Garbage (featuring Brody Dalle) - Girls Talk (2014)- uploaded by GarbagePlacebo - Meds (2006)- uploaded by PLACEBO________________ At around 20:00 UK time on Wednesday 17 February, I'll quote this post and add one or more questions or instructions. The first member to answer correctly, wins. QUESTIONThe pairing of works that are featured here rests on a general theme of artistic sources, influences, and (perhaps coincidental) similarities. This was a red herring — at least with respect to the competition question, which focuses exclusively on the last piece: In the video for Meds, the francophile and Placebo vocalist-guitarist, Brian Molko, experiences multiple hallucinations. One of these involves a framed print hanging on the wall in his hotel room. The young woman depicted in the image winks at him. Name the artist who painted the original image, its title, and its year of creation. ________________ I need to step away from my laptop now, but will be back online tomorrow (Thursday) in the late morning UK time to check any answers. In case no eligible member responds correctly beforehand, answers will be posted in 48 hours — at around 20:00 UK time on Friday 19 February. The painting is 'Valentine' by the French painter Marie Laurencin. She made this painting in 1924.
A.Édouard Manet, Le Déjeuner sur l'herbe** (1862–63), Oil on canvas, 208 × 264.5 cm Marcantonio Raimondi / After Raphael, The Judgement of Paris* (circa. 1510–20), Engraving, 29.1 x 43.7 cm Collaboration between the painter Raphael and the engraver Raimondi. B.Romper Stomper (1992) - Mall scene (jacket)With Russell Crowe (Hando), Daniel Pollock (Davey) and Jacqueline McKenzie (Gabrielle). Filmed in Footscray, a suburb of Melbourne. - uploaded by Josh Busfield aka bitterphaseChristiane F. (1981) - Mall / Heroes scene (loose change)With Natja Brunckhorst (Christiane F.) and Thomas Haustein (Detlev). Filmed at the Europa-Center, Breitscheidplatz, Berlin (West Berlin at the time). - uploaded by felixC.Garbage (featuring Brody Dalle) - Girls Talk (2014)- uploaded by GarbagePlacebo - Meds (2006)- uploaded by PLACEBO________________ At around 20:00 UK time on Wednesday 17 February, I'll quote this post and add one or more questions or instructions. The first member to answer correctly, wins. QUESTIONThe pairing of works that are featured here rests on a general theme of artistic sources, influences, and (perhaps coincidental) similarities. This was a red herring — at least with respect to the competition question, which focuses exclusively on the last piece: In the video for Meds, the francophile and Placebo vocalist-guitarist, Brian Molko, experiences multiple hallucinations. One of these involves a framed print hanging on the wall in his hotel room. The young woman depicted in the image winks at him. Name the artist who painted the original image, its title, and its year of creation. ________________ I need to step away from my laptop now, but will be back online tomorrow (Thursday) in the late morning UK time to check any answers. In case no eligible member responds correctly beforehand, answers will be posted in 48 hours — at around 20:00 UK time on Friday 19 February. The painting is 'Valentine' by the French painter Marie Laurencin. She made this painting in 1924.
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met
Junior Member
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June 2009
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THE MET LOTTERY, by met on Feb 18, 2021 2:25:18 GMT 1, QUESTIONThe pairing of works that are featured here rests on a general theme of artistic sources, influences, and (perhaps coincidental) similarities. This was a red herring — at least with respect to the competition question, which focuses exclusively on the last piece: In the video for Meds, the francophile and Placebo vocalist-guitarist, Brian Molko, experiences multiple hallucinations. One of these involves a framed print hanging on the wall in his hotel room. The young woman depicted in the image winks at him. Name the artist who painted the original image, its title, and its year of creation. ________________ I need to step away from my laptop now, but will be back online tomorrow (Thursday) in the late morning UK time to check any answers. In case no eligible member responds correctly beforehand, answers will be posted in 48 hours — at around 20:00 UK time on Friday 19 February. The painting is 'Valentine' by the French painter Marie Laurencin. She made this painting in 1924.
Congratulations on winning, kjg.
Good job if you were already familiar with Marie Laurencin's name and work. Excellent job if you were not.
It is competition participants in the latter camp who are of greatest interest to me. They're the ones starting out from the daunting position of, "I haven't got a clue."
What I usually try to ensure is that they too can always win — by falling back on dialectics, some lateral thinking, their natural resourcefulness, and a bit of perseverance.
REFERENCE ANSWERS
Artist: Marie Laurencin (1883-1956)* Title: Valentine Year: 1924
__________
Video stills:
Comments:
What were the options for participants who examined the above video images, and had no idea what they were looking at?
Well, they could have abandoned hope, and just thrown in the towel. Quit at the first hurdle. Very easy.
Alternatively, they could have asked themselves, "Might there be ways of figuring out the answers?"
And indeed those ways did exist:
(i) the artist simply being the subject of this competition might suggest they were relatively well-known;
(ii) the wording of the competition question had already confirmed the original image was a painting; and
(ii) based on the overtly feminine style of the image, it wasn't unreasonable to infer the artist was quite likely to be a woman.
Doing a Google Images search for "famous female painters" would then eventually lead to another figurative painting with a comparable subject matter and appearance (pastel colours, figures with pale complexions and dark eyes, a relatively pared-down illustration style). From there, discovering the artist's name was a single click away.
Moreover, adding a sensible-guess, historical period to the search terms ("famous female painters of the 20th century") would have sped up the process significantly.
And for those who picked up on the "francophile" reference in the competition question, throwing in a nationality guess among the search terms ("famous French female painters of the 20th century") would have achieved a near-immediate result on Laurencin's identity, via this article:
theculturetrip.com/europe/france/paris/articles/15-female-artists-who-shook-the-paris-art-world/
__________
kjg — If it's okay with you, I'll delay posting your prize until the current round of competitions is over.
Damp squib nota bene:
Post-Brexit transition period, the shipping is likely to take longer than it has previously done.
No discouragement intended but, depending on how well you do in the next three competitions, please also bear in mind the separate risk of being hit with local VAT and import duty.
QUESTIONThe pairing of works that are featured here rests on a general theme of artistic sources, influences, and (perhaps coincidental) similarities. This was a red herring — at least with respect to the competition question, which focuses exclusively on the last piece: In the video for Meds, the francophile and Placebo vocalist-guitarist, Brian Molko, experiences multiple hallucinations. One of these involves a framed print hanging on the wall in his hotel room. The young woman depicted in the image winks at him. Name the artist who painted the original image, its title, and its year of creation. ________________ I need to step away from my laptop now, but will be back online tomorrow (Thursday) in the late morning UK time to check any answers. In case no eligible member responds correctly beforehand, answers will be posted in 48 hours — at around 20:00 UK time on Friday 19 February. The painting is 'Valentine' by the French painter Marie Laurencin. She made this painting in 1924. Congratulations on winning, kjg. Good job if you were already familiar with Marie Laurencin's name and work. Excellent job if you were not. It is competition participants in the latter camp who are of greatest interest to me. They're the ones starting out from the daunting position of, "I haven't got a clue."What I usually try to ensure is that they too can always win — by falling back on dialectics, some lateral thinking, their natural resourcefulness, and a bit of perseverance. REFERENCE ANSWERSArtist: Marie Laurencin (1883-1956) *Title: Valentine Year: 1924 __________ Video stills:Comments:What were the options for participants who examined the above video images, and had no idea what they were looking at? Well, they could have abandoned hope, and just thrown in the towel. Quit at the first hurdle. Very easy. Alternatively, they could have asked themselves, "Might there be ways of figuring out the answers?" And indeed those ways did exist:(i) the artist simply being the subject of this competition might suggest they were relatively well-known; (ii) the wording of the competition question had already confirmed the original image was a painting; and (ii) based on the overtly feminine style of the image, it wasn't unreasonable to infer the artist was quite likely to be a woman. Doing a Google Images search for "famous female painters" would then eventually lead to another figurative painting with a comparable subject matter and appearance (pastel colours, figures with pale complexions and dark eyes, a relatively pared-down illustration style). From there, discovering the artist's name was a single click away. Moreover, adding a sensible-guess, historical period to the search terms ( "famous female painters of the 20th century") would have sped up the process significantly. And for those who picked up on the "francophile" reference in the competition question, throwing in a nationality guess among the search terms ( "famous French female painters of the 20th century") would have achieved a near-immediate result on Laurencin's identity, via this article: theculturetrip.com/europe/france/paris/articles/15-female-artists-who-shook-the-paris-art-world/__________ kjg — If it's okay with you, I'll delay posting your prize until the current round of competitions is over. Damp squib nota bene:Post-Brexit transition period, the shipping is likely to take longer than it has previously done. No discouragement intended but, depending on how well you do in the next three competitions, please also bear in mind the separate risk of being hit with local VAT and import duty.
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kjg
Junior Member
🗨️ 4,388
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December 2014
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THE MET LOTTERY, by kjg on Feb 18, 2021 9:04:37 GMT 1, Thank you met!
It was an interesting search because at first I thought that the painting was in some way connected to Édouard Manet. That was a dead end though. After some Google-hops I finally stumbled across the site you mention and then it was clear enough.
Marie Laurencin lived a very interesting life. For those who want to read a little bit more about her: check out artuk.org/discover/stories/marie-laurencin-the-avant-gardist-who-painted-coco-chanel
Thank you met! It was an interesting search because at first I thought that the painting was in some way connected to Édouard Manet. That was a dead end though. After some Google-hops I finally stumbled across the site you mention and then it was clear enough. Marie Laurencin lived a very interesting life. For those who want to read a little bit more about her: check out artuk.org/discover/stories/marie-laurencin-the-avant-gardist-who-painted-coco-chanel
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met
Junior Member
🗨️ 2,796
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June 2009
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THE MET LOTTERY, by met on Feb 18, 2021 12:13:49 GMT 1, Thank you met! It was an interesting search because at first I thought that the painting was in some way connected to Édouard Manet. That was a dead end though. After some Google-hops I finally stumbled across the site you mention and then it was clear enough. Marie Laurencin lived a very interesting life. For those who want to read a little bit more about her: check out artuk.org/discover/stories/marie-laurencin-the-avant-gardist-who-painted-coco-chanel
On the subject of Manet, and specifically Le Déjeuner sur l'herbe, my hope was that one or two members might be encouraged to take another look at the artwork.
Its very scale is impressive to begin with. And the context of the piece is interesting — along with its inspirations, including the engraving by Raimondi (already featured) and the original painting by Raphael (below).
After reading about the story of the judgement of Paris, Wikipedia hyperlinks make it easy to then continue with the Trojan War. Next thing you know, you're down a rabbit hole.
__________
Today, Le Déjeuner sur l'herbe is so widely-recognised and mainstream that it's quite difficult to appreciate how monumental a "Fuck you" the painting was to academic tradition and the art establishment when it was first exhibited in 1863.
The parallels with graffiti and street art should be obvious to everyone on this forum.
Thank you met! It was an interesting search because at first I thought that the painting was in some way connected to Édouard Manet. That was a dead end though. After some Google-hops I finally stumbled across the site you mention and then it was clear enough. Marie Laurencin lived a very interesting life. For those who want to read a little bit more about her: check out artuk.org/discover/stories/marie-laurencin-the-avant-gardist-who-painted-coco-chanelOn the subject of Manet, and specifically Le Déjeuner sur l'herbe, my hope was that one or two members might be encouraged to take another look at the artwork. Its very scale is impressive to begin with. And the context of the piece is interesting — along with its inspirations, including the engraving by Raimondi (already featured) and the original painting by Raphael (below). After reading about the story of the judgement of Paris, Wikipedia hyperlinks make it easy to then continue with the Trojan War. Next thing you know, you're down a rabbit hole. __________ Today, Le Déjeuner sur l'herbe is so widely-recognised and mainstream that it's quite difficult to appreciate how monumental a "Fuck you" the painting was to academic tradition and the art establishment when it was first exhibited in 1863. The parallels with graffiti and street art should be obvious to everyone on this forum.
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mojo
Junior Member
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May 2014
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THE MET LOTTERY, by mojo on Feb 18, 2021 14:36:37 GMT 1, Thanks met , interesting. I much prefer the original Raphael. The first thing I noticed was that Manet chose to paint clothes on the men but kept the women naked.
I didn't know about Marie Laurencin, bit too pastel for my own taste although I can see that she had great skill and a unique feminine style particularly for that time. I really like the portrait of her mother with a more reddish/brown palette and stronger more defined outlines.
Thanks met , interesting. I much prefer the original Raphael. The first thing I noticed was that Manet chose to paint clothes on the men but kept the women naked. I didn't know about Marie Laurencin, bit too pastel for my own taste although I can see that she had great skill and a unique feminine style particularly for that time. I really like the portrait of her mother with a more reddish/brown palette and stronger more defined outlines.
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met
Junior Member
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June 2009
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THE MET LOTTERY, by met on Feb 18, 2021 21:00:01 GMT 1, A.Key & Peele - You Can Do Anything- uploaded by Key & PeeleB.DoubleSpeak, How to Lie without Lying- uploaded by What I've Learned1989 C-SPAN Interview: William Lutz – "Doublespeak"- uploaded by AhamoC.Jonathan Haidt - The moral roots of liberals and conservatives (TED2008, Monterey, California, February 2008)- uploaded by TED-EdWhat is a 'Bigoteer'? (Pt. 2) | Tim Ferriss | LIFESTYLE | Rubin Report- uploaded by The Rubin Report on 22 December 2016________________ NB: This competition will have a different format to the previous ones — by incorporating a qualifying round for up to five members. At around 20:00 UK time on Thursday 18 February, I'll quote this post and add a single question. The first five members to give a correct answer will be invited to participate in Stage 2. There will be multiple correct answers to choose from. For an answer to qualify, it must not be the same as any of the ones given by other members who may have already qualified. Stage 2 will involve a leisurely task. Each qualifying member (up to five in total) who successfully completes that task will win the competition.
QUESTION
This qualifying-round question relates to the second video in Part B — the 20 December 1989 interview with William Lutz, who is discussing his book, Double-Speak: The Use of Language to Deceive You.
It is a pleasant (albeit slightly dull) exchange about a topic of great interest to me — how words are consciously used to manipulate, distort reality and corrupt understanding.
Excluding the more general Thucydides references, I counted 16 specific examples of doublespeak expressions being mentioned, either by Lutz himself or by C-SPAN host, Brian Lamb.
State:
(i) one specific example of a doublespeak expression cited by Lutz or Lamb;
(ii) the approximate time into the video when it's brought up; and
(iii) what that doublespeak expression actually refers or referred to, using clear language instead.
________________
The first five eligible members* to give a correct answer will qualify for Stage 2 of the competition.
NB: Responses may not be the same as any already provided by faster participants.
If somebody offers an answer that was previously given by another person, they'll be disqualified. The onus is therefore on members to refresh this thread and check the latest posts before posting themselves. [If there happens to be a case of duplicate answers due to cross-posting within a brief time period of, say, 10 seconds, I'll exercise reasonable discretion and allow the second poster to try again with a different answer.]
This Stage 1 of the competition will remain open for 72 hours one week, or until successful completion by five eligible members, whichever is sooner.
The leisurely task for Stage 2 will be announced at around 20:00 UK time on Sunday 21 February Thursday 25 February (or possibly earlier, if five participants qualify before then).
EDIT: Extension of time period for answering the qualifying-round question.
A.Key & Peele - You Can Do Anything- uploaded by Key & PeeleB.DoubleSpeak, How to Lie without Lying- uploaded by What I've Learned1989 C-SPAN Interview: William Lutz – "Doublespeak"- uploaded by AhamoC.Jonathan Haidt - The moral roots of liberals and conservatives (TED2008, Monterey, California, February 2008)- uploaded by TED-EdWhat is a 'Bigoteer'? (Pt. 2) | Tim Ferriss | LIFESTYLE | Rubin Report- uploaded by The Rubin Report on 22 December 2016________________ NB: This competition will have a different format to the previous ones — by incorporating a qualifying round for up to five members. At around 20:00 UK time on Thursday 18 February, I'll quote this post and add a single question. The first five members to give a correct answer will be invited to participate in Stage 2. There will be multiple correct answers to choose from. For an answer to qualify, it must not be the same as any of the ones given by other members who may have already qualified. Stage 2 will involve a leisurely task. Each qualifying member (up to five in total) who successfully completes that task will win the competition. QUESTIONThis qualifying-round question relates to the second video in Part B — the 20 December 1989 interview with William Lutz, who is discussing his book, Double-Speak: The Use of Language to Deceive You. It is a pleasant (albeit slightly dull) exchange about a topic of great interest to me — how words are consciously used to manipulate, distort reality and corrupt understanding. Excluding the more general Thucydides references, I counted 16 specific examples of doublespeak expressions being mentioned, either by Lutz himself or by C-SPAN host, Brian Lamb. State: (i) one specific example of a doublespeak expression cited by Lutz or Lamb; (ii) the approximate time into the video when it's brought up; and (iii) what that doublespeak expression actually refers or referred to, using clear language instead. ________________ The first five eligible members* to give a correct answer will qualify for Stage 2 of the competition. NB: Responses may not be the same as any already provided by faster participants. If somebody offers an answer that was previously given by another person, they'll be disqualified. The onus is therefore on members to refresh this thread and check the latest posts before posting themselves. [If there happens to be a case of duplicate answers due to cross-posting within a brief time period of, say, 10 seconds, I'll exercise reasonable discretion and allow the second poster to try again with a different answer.]This Stage 1 of the competition will remain open for 72 hours one week, or until successful completion by five eligible members, whichever is sooner. The leisurely task for Stage 2 will be announced at around 20:00 UK time on Sunday 21 February Thursday 25 February (or possibly earlier, if five participants qualify before then). EDIT: Extension of time period for answering the qualifying-round question.
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kjg
Junior Member
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December 2014
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THE MET LOTTERY, by kjg on Feb 18, 2021 21:12:30 GMT 1, (i) one specific example of a doublespeak expression cited by Lutz or Lamb; Lutz talks about "a therapeutic misadventure".
(ii) the approximate time into the video when it's brought up;
He mentions this in the C-Span interview, around 26:34.
(iii) what that doublespeak expression actually refers or referred to, using clear language instead. The double speak refers to an incident in 1982 where during a cesarean section the anesthesist turned the wrong knob and killed mother and child. The hospital called this a therapeutic misadventure. This is an example of euphemism, a type of doublespeak that attempts to make certain situations seem more palatable.
(i) one specific example of a doublespeak expression cited by Lutz or Lamb; Lutz talks about "a therapeutic misadventure".
(ii) the approximate time into the video when it's brought up;
He mentions this in the C-Span interview, around 26:34.
(iii) what that doublespeak expression actually refers or referred to, using clear language instead. The double speak refers to an incident in 1982 where during a cesarean section the anesthesist turned the wrong knob and killed mother and child. The hospital called this a therapeutic misadventure. This is an example of euphemism, a type of doublespeak that attempts to make certain situations seem more palatable.
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viz
New Member
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September 2017
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THE MET LOTTERY, by viz on Feb 18, 2021 22:38:38 GMT 1, On the subject of Manet, and specifically Le Déjeuner sur l'herbe, my hope was that one or two members might be encouraged to take another look at the artwork. Its very scale is impressive to begin with. And the context of the piece is interesting — along with its inspirations, including the engraving by Raimondi (already featured) and the original painting by Raphael (below). After reading about the story of the judgement of Paris, Wikipedia hyperlinks make it easy to then continue with the Trojan War. Next thing you know, you're down a rabbit hole. __________ Today, Le Déjeuner sur l'herbe is so widely-recognised and mainstream that it's quite difficult to appreciate how monumental a "Fuck you" the painting was to academic tradition and the art establishment when it was first exhibited in 1863. The parallels with graffiti and street art should be obvious to everyone on this forum.
The original drawing by Raffaello is actually unknown and the engraving by Raimondi is the only existing reference to it, from which, as said, Manet took inspiration.
The above painting is a later reproduction/tribute. It took me a while to find it since google search by image did not return any result; here is the auction where it was sold where the catalogue refers of "an early 17th century derivation after Raphael's original composition engraved circa 1515 by Marcantonio Raimondi" www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/ecatalogue/2003/old-master-paintings-w03719/lot.375.html
On the subject of Manet, and specifically Le Déjeuner sur l'herbe, my hope was that one or two members might be encouraged to take another look at the artwork. Its very scale is impressive to begin with. And the context of the piece is interesting — along with its inspirations, including the engraving by Raimondi (already featured) and the original painting by Raphael (below). After reading about the story of the judgement of Paris, Wikipedia hyperlinks make it easy to then continue with the Trojan War. Next thing you know, you're down a rabbit hole. __________ Today, Le Déjeuner sur l'herbe is so widely-recognised and mainstream that it's quite difficult to appreciate how monumental a "Fuck you" the painting was to academic tradition and the art establishment when it was first exhibited in 1863. The parallels with graffiti and street art should be obvious to everyone on this forum. The original drawing by Raffaello is actually unknown and the engraving by Raimondi is the only existing reference to it, from which, as said, Manet took inspiration. The above painting is a later reproduction/tribute. It took me a while to find it since google search by image did not return any result; here is the auction where it was sold where the catalogue refers of "an early 17th century derivation after Raphael's original composition engraved circa 1515 by Marcantonio Raimondi" www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/ecatalogue/2003/old-master-paintings-w03719/lot.375.html
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