met
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,796
๐๐ป 6,762
June 2009
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THE MET LOTTERY, by met on Feb 19, 2021 1:13:56 GMT 1, On the subject of Manet, and specifically Le Dรฉjeuner sur l'herbe, my hope was that one or two members might be encouraged to take another look at the artwork. Its very scale is impressive to begin with. And the context of the piece is interesting โ along with its inspirations, including the engraving by Raimondi (already featured) and the original painting by Raphael (below). After reading about the story of the judgement of Paris, Wikipedia hyperlinks make it easy to then continue with the Trojan War. Next thing you know, you're down a rabbit hole. __________ Today, Le Dรฉjeuner sur l'herbe is so widely-recognised and mainstream that it's quite difficult to appreciate how monumental a "Fuck you" the painting was to academic tradition and the art establishment when it was first exhibited in 1863. The parallels with graffiti and street art should be obvious to everyone on this forum. The original drawing by Raffaello is actually unknown and the engraving by Raimondi is the only existing reference to it, from which, as said, Manet took inspiration. The above painting is a later reproduction/tribute. It took me a while to find it since google search by image did not return any result; here is the auction where it was sold where the catalogue refers of "an early 17th century derivation after Raphael's original composition engraved circa 1515 by Marcantonio Raimondi" www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/ecatalogue/2003/old-master-paintings-w03719/lot.375.html
Oh dear. Poor show on my part.
Thank you, viz, for spotting this early on and nipping the misinformation in the bud.
If I'm going to get called out on anything, I want it to be for interesting reasons โ not for something criminally mundane like laziness, and my own failure to complete a basic verification exercise.
In this instance, the online image corresponded to how I imagined the actual Raphael piece would look like (which is arguably as dangerous as hearing what one wishes to hear). That alignment with expectations gave me a false sense of security, and I leapt to conclusions.
It's amateur-level foolishness. A lesson I also shouldn't have had to relearn.
For your helpful reminder to be better, you win a cookie prize. Shipping will take place next week.
On the subject of Manet, and specifically Le Dรฉjeuner sur l'herbe, my hope was that one or two members might be encouraged to take another look at the artwork. Its very scale is impressive to begin with. And the context of the piece is interesting โ along with its inspirations, including the engraving by Raimondi (already featured) and the original painting by Raphael (below). After reading about the story of the judgement of Paris, Wikipedia hyperlinks make it easy to then continue with the Trojan War. Next thing you know, you're down a rabbit hole. __________ Today, Le Dรฉjeuner sur l'herbe is so widely-recognised and mainstream that it's quite difficult to appreciate how monumental a "Fuck you" the painting was to academic tradition and the art establishment when it was first exhibited in 1863. The parallels with graffiti and street art should be obvious to everyone on this forum. The original drawing by Raffaello is actually unknown and the engraving by Raimondi is the only existing reference to it, from which, as said, Manet took inspiration. The above painting is a later reproduction/tribute. It took me a while to find it since google search by image did not return any result; here is the auction where it was sold where the catalogue refers of "an early 17th century derivation after Raphael's original composition engraved circa 1515 by Marcantonio Raimondi" www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/ecatalogue/2003/old-master-paintings-w03719/lot.375.htmlOh dear. Poor show on my part. Thank you, viz, for spotting this early on and nipping the misinformation in the bud. If I'm going to get called out on anything, I want it to be for interesting reasons โ not for something criminally mundane like laziness, and my own failure to complete a basic verification exercise. In this instance, the online image corresponded to how I imagined the actual Raphael piece would look like (which is arguably as dangerous as hearing what one wishes to hear). That alignment with expectations gave me a false sense of security, and I leapt to conclusions. It's amateur-level foolishness. A lesson I also shouldn't have had to relearn. For your helpful reminder to be better, you win a cookie prize. Shipping will take place next week.
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met
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,796
๐๐ป 6,762
June 2009
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THE MET LOTTERY, by met on Feb 19, 2021 1:23:22 GMT 1, (i) one specific example of a doublespeak expression cited by Lutz or Lamb; Lutz talks about "a therapeutic misadventure". (ii) the approximate time into the video when it's brought up; He mentions this in the C-Span interview, around 26:34. (iii) what that doublespeak expression actually refers or referred to, using clear language instead. The double speak refers to an incident in 1982 where during a cesarean section the anesthesist turned the wrong knob and killed mother and child. The hospital called this a therapeutic misadventure. This is an example of euphemism, a type of doublespeak that attempts to make certain situations seem more palatable.
Nicely done, kjg.
Four spaces remain open for other eligible members who wish to participate in Stage 2.
(i) one specific example of a doublespeak expression cited by Lutz or Lamb; Lutz talks about "a therapeutic misadventure". (ii) the approximate time into the video when it's brought up; He mentions this in the C-Span interview, around 26:34. (iii) what that doublespeak expression actually refers or referred to, using clear language instead. The double speak refers to an incident in 1982 where during a cesarean section the anesthesist turned the wrong knob and killed mother and child. The hospital called this a therapeutic misadventure. This is an example of euphemism, a type of doublespeak that attempts to make certain situations seem more palatable. Nicely done, kjg. Four spaces remain open for other eligible members who wish to participate in Stage 2.
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astarti
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 325
๐๐ป 834
November 2019
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THE MET LOTTERY, by astarti on Feb 19, 2021 9:44:20 GMT 1, Exxon Valdez oil spill:
(i) an expression which also won the 1989 'doublespeak award' where 35 miles of Alaska shoreline with oil were presented as "environmentally clean" by the company.
(ii) Time: about 54.10
(iii) what was actually meant by the use of the term 'clean' was that natural inhabitants could live there and not that every single oil stain was off every rock.
I found quite interesting the list of the winners of the doublespeak awards over the years en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doublespeak_Award. Thank you Met for introducing us to this notion!
Exxon Valdez oil spill: (i) an expression which also won the 1989 'doublespeak award' where 35 miles of Alaska shoreline with oil were presented as "environmentally clean" by the company. (ii) Time: about 54.10 (iii) what was actually meant by the use of the term 'clean' was that natural inhabitants could live there and not that every single oil stain was off every rock. I found quite interesting the list of the winners of the doublespeak awards over the years en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doublespeak_Award. Thank you Met for introducing us to this notion!
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viz
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 264
๐๐ป 225
September 2017
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THE MET LOTTERY, by viz on Feb 19, 2021 15:30:25 GMT 1, The original drawing by Raffaello is actually unknown and the engraving by Raimondi is the only existing reference to it, from which, as said, Manet took inspiration. The above painting is a later reproduction/tribute. It took me a while to find it since google search by image did not return any result; here is the auction where it was sold where the catalogue refers of "an early 17th century derivation after Raphael's original composition engraved circa 1515 by Marcantonio Raimondi" www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/ecatalogue/2003/old-master-paintings-w03719/lot.375.htmlOh dear. Poor show on my part. Thank you, viz , for spotting this early on and nipping the misinformation in the bud. If I'm going to get called out on anything, I want it to be for interesting reasons โ not for something criminally mundane like laziness, and my own failure to complete a basic verification exercise. In this instance, the online image corresponded to how I imagined the actual Raphael piece would look like (which is arguably as dangerous as hearing what one wishes to hear). That alignment with expectations gave me a false sense of security, and I leapt to conclusions. It's amateur-level foolishness. A lesson I also shouldn't have had to relearn. For your helpful reminder to be better, you win a cookie prize. Shipping will take place next week. No poor show at all, on the contrary always a lot of very interesting posts. I hope my post did not sound pedantic, I just wanted to add some information since I thought it might be of interest, but when writing, especially in a foreign language, it's difficult to find the right words.
met thanks for the offer but I don't deserve the prize, this is just a knowledge/opinions exchange; anyway as soon as I have some spare time I will try to win one of the places for the second round of questions.
...and since we were talking about Raffaello, if anyone passes by Milano, I strongly suggest to go and have a look at the "Sposalizio della vergine" at Pinacoteca di Brera, a real masterpiece
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/06/Raffaello_-_Spozalizio_-_Web_Gallery_of_Art.jpg
The original drawing by Raffaello is actually unknown and the engraving by Raimondi is the only existing reference to it, from which, as said, Manet took inspiration. The above painting is a later reproduction/tribute. It took me a while to find it since google search by image did not return any result; here is the auction where it was sold where the catalogue refers of "an early 17th century derivation after Raphael's original composition engraved circa 1515 by Marcantonio Raimondi" www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/ecatalogue/2003/old-master-paintings-w03719/lot.375.htmlOh dear. Poor show on my part. Thank you, viz , for spotting this early on and nipping the misinformation in the bud. If I'm going to get called out on anything, I want it to be for interesting reasons โ not for something criminally mundane like laziness, and my own failure to complete a basic verification exercise. In this instance, the online image corresponded to how I imagined the actual Raphael piece would look like (which is arguably as dangerous as hearing what one wishes to hear). That alignment with expectations gave me a false sense of security, and I leapt to conclusions. It's amateur-level foolishness. A lesson I also shouldn't have had to relearn. For your helpful reminder to be better, you win a cookie prize. Shipping will take place next week. No poor show at all, on the contrary always a lot of very interesting posts. I hope my post did not sound pedantic, I just wanted to add some information since I thought it might be of interest, but when writing, especially in a foreign language, it's difficult to find the right words. met thanks for the offer but I don't deserve the prize, this is just a knowledge/opinions exchange; anyway as soon as I have some spare time I will try to win one of the places for the second round of questions. ...and since we were talking about Raffaello, if anyone passes by Milano, I strongly suggest to go and have a look at the "Sposalizio della vergine" at Pinacoteca di Brera, a real masterpiece upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/06/Raffaello_-_Spozalizio_-_Web_Gallery_of_Art.jpg
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met
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,796
๐๐ป 6,762
June 2009
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THE MET LOTTERY, by met on Feb 21, 2021 19:13:11 GMT 1, Exxon Valdez oil spill: (i) an expression which also won the 1989 'doublespeak award' where 35 miles of Alaska shoreline with oil were presented as "environmentally clean" by the company. (ii) Time: about 54.10 (iii) what was actually meant by the use of the term 'clean' was that natural inhabitants could live there and not that every single oil stain was off every rock. I found quite interesting the list of the winners of the doublespeak awards over the years en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doublespeak_Award. Thank you Met for introducing us to this notion!
Good answers, astarti. You've qualified for Stage 2.
I'm heartened by the willingness of a second member to engage in this competition.
But due to their speed of replies, I still fear the possibility kjg might actually be a machine in an ongoing Turing test โ with me having unwittingly been assigned the role of evaluator. The answer that continues to elude me, however, is what use a robot could have with cookies.
__________
Thank you for posting that link to the Doublespeak Award. I knew of its existence, but had never previously gone through the list. Interesting indeed.
Just a couple of past winners that gave me pause for reflection:
1987 โ Oliver North and John Poindexter
For anyone feeling ignorant about contemporary American history, the IranโContra affair* is a fascinating episode to do some reading on.
2017 โ Kellyanne Conway
I tip my hat to Conway because "alternative facts" was such a memorable expression. Not only comedic, but consequential to some extent. And a reflection of our time.
Query how much hope there is for productive dialogue in civilised society, when opposing sides on an issue cannot even agree what the facts are. We're in the midst of an obscene era of science-denial (with biology, for example, now being attacked on ideological grounds). Where feelings and individual perception are sometimes allowed to trump objective reality. And where empirical data is frequently ignored or contemptuously dismissed in favour of lived experience. [I'm old enough to remember when "lived experience" used to be called "anecdotal evidence".]
__________
The web page for the Doublespeak Award helpfully also referred to the Big Brother Awards*.
Wikipedia extract:
The Big Brother Awards (BBAs) recognize "the government and private sector organizations ... which have done the most to threaten personal privacy". They are named after the George Orwell character Big Brother from the novel Nineteen Eighty-Four. They are awarded yearly to authorities, companies, organizations, and persons that have been acting particularly and consistently to threaten or violate people's privacy, or disclosed people's personal data to third parties.
I had forgotten about these, and wasn't aware so many countries had their own versions.
Here's an image of the Bulgarian trophies awarded two or three years ago:
Exxon Valdez oil spill: (i) an expression which also won the 1989 'doublespeak award' where 35 miles of Alaska shoreline with oil were presented as "environmentally clean" by the company. (ii) Time: about 54.10 (iii) what was actually meant by the use of the term 'clean' was that natural inhabitants could live there and not that every single oil stain was off every rock. I found quite interesting the list of the winners of the doublespeak awards over the years en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doublespeak_Award. Thank you Met for introducing us to this notion! Good answers, astarti. You've qualified for Stage 2. I'm heartened by the willingness of a second member to engage in this competition. But due to their speed of replies, I still fear the possibility kjg might actually be a machine in an ongoing Turing test โ with me having unwittingly been assigned the role of evaluator. The answer that continues to elude me, however, is what use a robot could have with cookies. __________ Thank you for posting that link to the Doublespeak Award. I knew of its existence, but had never previously gone through the list. Interesting indeed. Just a couple of past winners that gave me pause for reflection: 1987 โ Oliver North and John PoindexterFor anyone feeling ignorant about contemporary American history, the IranโContra affair * is a fascinating episode to do some reading on. 2017 โ Kellyanne ConwayI tip my hat to Conway because "alternative facts" was such a memorable expression. Not only comedic, but consequential to some extent. And a reflection of our time. Query how much hope there is for productive dialogue in civilised society, when opposing sides on an issue cannot even agree what the facts are. We're in the midst of an obscene era of science-denial (with biology, for example, now being attacked on ideological grounds). Where feelings and individual perception are sometimes allowed to trump objective reality. And where empirical data is frequently ignored or contemptuously dismissed in favour of lived experience. [I'm old enough to remember when "lived experience" used to be called "anecdotal evidence".]__________ The web page for the Doublespeak Award helpfully also referred to the Big Brother Awards*. Wikipedia extract: The Big Brother Awards (BBAs) recognize "the government and private sector organizations ... which have done the most to threaten personal privacy". They are named after the George Orwell character Big Brother from the novel Nineteen Eighty-Four. They are awarded yearly to authorities, companies, organizations, and persons that have been acting particularly and consistently to threaten or violate people's privacy, or disclosed people's personal data to third parties.I had forgotten about these, and wasn't aware so many countries had their own versions. Here's an image of the Bulgarian trophies awarded two or three years ago:
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met
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,796
๐๐ป 6,762
June 2009
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THE MET LOTTERY, by met on Feb 21, 2021 19:59:01 GMT 1, The time period for up to five eligible members to answer the qualifying-round question of the current competition has been extended to 20:00 UK time on Thursday 25 February. Stage 2's task will now be announced then as well.
Sorry for the last-minute change.
The time period for up to five eligible members to answer the qualifying-round question of the current competition has been extended to 20:00 UK time on Thursday 25 February. Stage 2's task will now be announced then as well.
Sorry for the last-minute change.
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met
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,796
๐๐ป 6,762
June 2009
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THE MET LOTTERY, by met on Feb 22, 2021 21:00:00 GMT 1, UK-based members are likely to have an advantage with this particular competition. A.B.Imagine seeing this band live. You'd feel like Sailor Ripley watching Powermad at The Hurricane. Maximum The Hormone - Yoshลซ Fukushลซ (Preparing for Revenge) (2013)- uploaded by ใใญใทใใ ใถ ใใซใขใณๅ
ฌๅผMaximum The Hormone - A-L-I-E-N (2013)- uploaded by MaximumHormoneTheMaximum The Hormone (featuring Nyango Star) - Shimi (Live in 2019)Nyango Star is a personal hero of mine. In this video, Nao (normally on drums) can be heard on vocals in the background. - uploaded by Nyango Star ใซใใใใใใผC.UNKLE (featuring Ian Brown) - Be There (1999)- uploaded by UNKLEofficial________________ At around 20:00 UK time on Monday 22 February, I'll quote this post and add one or more questions or instructions. The first member to answer correctly, wins.
QUESTIONS
Both questions relate to Part C and the video by UNKLE.
1. Find the visual reference to a entirely separate band in the Be There video. Then post a video of a song by that other band.
[It would be more fun if the video and/or song were interesting to you, or at least not completely uninteresting. There should be time to make a thoughtful curatorial choice here, because no one is likely to be able to immediately answer Question 2.]
2. Be There was released last century. And it's possible to work out that chronology from the contents of the video itself.
Excluding the copyright details at the very end, I spotted four things pointing to the fact that filming took place in the 1990s or (for one clue) at the latest in 2000 โ as opposed to any year more recent than 2000.
Of the four things I found, two were straightforward. The other two required more thinking and research, and would be difficult for non-UK residents to identify (e.g. knowing what to look for, where to research, and even which Google search terms to use).
Find and describe three clear, persuasive pieces of evidence pointing to the fact that filming for Be There did not take place later than 2000.
EDIT: For the purpose of this Question 2, please discount the clothing worn, the specific Futura imagery featured, and what was already at the time a quaint use of a portable cassette player.
________________
In case no eligible member responds correctly beforehand, a clue for Question 2 will be posted in 48 hours โ at around 20:00 UK time on Wednesday 24 February.
UK-based members are likely to have an advantage with this particular competition. A.B.Imagine seeing this band live. You'd feel like Sailor Ripley watching Powermad at The Hurricane. Maximum The Hormone - Yoshลซ Fukushลซ (Preparing for Revenge) (2013)- uploaded by ใใญใทใใ ใถ ใใซใขใณๅ
ฌๅผMaximum The Hormone - A-L-I-E-N (2013)- uploaded by MaximumHormoneTheMaximum The Hormone (featuring Nyango Star) - Shimi (Live in 2019)Nyango Star is a personal hero of mine. In this video, Nao (normally on drums) can be heard on vocals in the background. - uploaded by Nyango Star ใซใใใใใใผC.UNKLE (featuring Ian Brown) - Be There (1999)- uploaded by UNKLEofficial________________ At around 20:00 UK time on Monday 22 February, I'll quote this post and add one or more questions or instructions. The first member to answer correctly, wins. QUESTIONSBoth questions relate to Part C and the video by UNKLE. 1. Find the visual reference to a entirely separate band in the Be There video. Then post a video of a song by that other band. [It would be more fun if the video and/or song were interesting to you, or at least not completely uninteresting. There should be time to make a thoughtful curatorial choice here, because no one is likely to be able to immediately answer Question 2.]2. Be There was released last century. And it's possible to work out that chronology from the contents of the video itself. Excluding the copyright details at the very end, I spotted four things pointing to the fact that filming took place in the 1990s or (for one clue) at the latest in 2000 โ as opposed to any year more recent than 2000. Of the four things I found, two were straightforward. The other two required more thinking and research, and would be difficult for non-UK residents to identify (e.g. knowing what to look for, where to research, and even which Google search terms to use). Find and describe three clear, persuasive pieces of evidence pointing to the fact that filming for Be There did not take place later than 2000. EDIT: For the purpose of this Question 2, please discount the clothing worn, the specific Futura imagery featured, and what was already at the time a quaint use of a portable cassette player.________________ In case no eligible member responds correctly beforehand, a clue for Question 2 will be posted in 48 hours โ at around 20:00 UK time on Wednesday 24 February.
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met
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,796
๐๐ป 6,762
June 2009
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THE MET LOTTERY, by met on Feb 22, 2021 21:08:58 GMT 1, Please note the clarification just added in relation to Question 2.
Please note the clarification just added in relation to Question 2.
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Dive Jedi
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 6,194
๐๐ป 9,453
October 2015
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THE MET LOTTERY, by Dive Jedi on Feb 22, 2021 21:26:37 GMT 1, Well, not referring to the era, but Futura is also a punk band :
When the door opens op the subway you can see a billboard with 1999 on it behind the guys.
The newspaper in the window refers to the introduction of the euro, which was in 1999.
And as a non-UK resedent I request a dispensation for the entry of the Walkman use, which would be highly unlikely for a cool girl after the introduction of the ipod in 2001. Since I can not spot clues which you declare to be almost impossible for non-UKians.
Cheers!
Well, not referring to the era, but Futura is also a punk band :
When the door opens op the subway you can see a billboard with 1999 on it behind the guys.
The newspaper in the window refers to the introduction of the euro, which was in 1999.
And as a non-UK resedent I request a dispensation for the entry of the Walkman use, which would be highly unlikely for a cool girl after the introduction of the ipod in 2001. Since I can not spot clues which you declare to be almost impossible for non-UKians.
Cheers!
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met
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,796
๐๐ป 6,762
June 2009
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THE MET LOTTERY, by met on Feb 22, 2021 22:18:45 GMT 1, Well, not referring to the era, but Futura is also a punk band : When the door opens op the subway you can see a billboard with 1999 on it behind the guys. The newspaper in the window refers to the introduction of the euro, which was in 1999. And as a non-UK resedent I request a dispensation for the entry of the Walkman use, which would be highly unlikely for a cool girl after the introduction of the ipod in 2001. Since I can not spot clues which you declare to be almost impossible for non-UKians. Cheers!
No dispensation, but I will make two exceptions for your effort, including for introducing me to that song:
1. I'm waiving your breach of the rule banning edited posts.
2. If nobody wins by Wednesday evening, I'll allow you a second chance to reply after the clue is posted. That clue may help to level the playing field just a tad, between UK- and non-UK-based members.
Well, not referring to the era, but Futura is also a punk band : When the door opens op the subway you can see a billboard with 1999 on it behind the guys. The newspaper in the window refers to the introduction of the euro, which was in 1999. And as a non-UK resedent I request a dispensation for the entry of the Walkman use, which would be highly unlikely for a cool girl after the introduction of the ipod in 2001. Since I can not spot clues which you declare to be almost impossible for non-UKians. Cheers! No dispensation, but I will make two exceptions for your effort, including for introducing me to that song: 1. I'm waiving your breach of the rule banning edited posts. 2. If nobody wins by Wednesday evening, I'll allow you a second chance to reply after the clue is posted. That clue may help to level the playing field just a tad, between UK- and non-UK-based members.
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Dive Jedi
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 6,194
๐๐ป 9,453
October 2015
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THE MET LOTTERY, by Dive Jedi on Feb 22, 2021 22:44:26 GMT 1, Well, met... didn't know editing posts was not allowed. Just removing a typo. But I had my answers ready, just to come back to the forum to an .... edited question.
So when edited posts are not allowed I would claim also editing the question is not allowed.
Of course it's your quiz.
Well, met... didn't know editing posts was not allowed. Just removing a typo. But I had my answers ready, just to come back to the forum to an .... edited question. So when edited posts are not allowed I would claim also editing the question is not allowed. Of course it's your quiz.
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met
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,796
๐๐ป 6,762
June 2009
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THE MET LOTTERY, by met on Feb 22, 2021 22:55:26 GMT 1, Well, met... didn't know editing posts was not allowed. Just removing a typo. But I had my answers ready, just to come back to the forum to an .... edited question. So when edited posts are not allowed I would claim also editing the question is not allowed. Of course it's your quiz.
That's a fair comment, and I accept the charge of hypocrisy in this instance.
__________
Regarding that band Futura, besides the music, I do like the graphics they use. Some of it reminds me of Neckface.
The artist appears to be called Wati Bakan:
www.instagram.com/wati_bakan/
Looks like Bakan also has connections with another band called Alambre De Pรบas (Barbed Wire):
Well, met... didn't know editing posts was not allowed. Just removing a typo. But I had my answers ready, just to come back to the forum to an .... edited question. So when edited posts are not allowed I would claim also editing the question is not allowed. Of course it's your quiz. That's a fair comment, and I accept the charge of hypocrisy in this instance. __________ Regarding that band Futura, besides the music, I do like the graphics they use. Some of it reminds me of Neckface. The artist appears to be called Wati Bakan: www.instagram.com/wati_bakan/Looks like Bakan also has connections with another band called Alambre De Pรบas (Barbed Wire):
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kjg
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 4,388
๐๐ป 6,346
December 2014
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THE MET LOTTERY, by kjg on Feb 22, 2021 23:15:31 GMT 1, 1. Find the visual reference to a entirely separate band in the Be There video. Then post a video of a song by that other band.
Answer:
The band is The Cramps. The girl in the video wears a The Cramps shirt. The video I choose is โBikini Girls With Machine Gunsโ. Because it is a catchy song and because of the title, which I think is pretty hilarious:
2. Be There was released last century. And it's possible to work out that chronology from the contents of the video itself.
Answers:
1. The billboard in the beginning of the video mentions โNew fares from 3 January 1999โ. 2. There seems to be an Underground ticket machine near the track, the girl tries to get something out of that machine. That means there are no Oyster cards yet, which means that the video is filmed before 2003. 3. The paper in the window refers to the euro as something that is happening and has not happened yet. 4. The video is filmed on Underground station Morning Crescent, part of the Northern Line. The seats on the Northern Line in the video have a total different lining (or moquette as it is called) than nowadays. I cannot really find specific info on the history of changes of this moquette, but I know it is different than 20 years ago.
1. Find the visual reference to a entirely separate band in the Be There video. Then post a video of a song by that other band.
Answer:
The band is The Cramps. The girl in the video wears a The Cramps shirt. The video I choose is โBikini Girls With Machine Gunsโ. Because it is a catchy song and because of the title, which I think is pretty hilarious:
2. Be There was released last century. And it's possible to work out that chronology from the contents of the video itself.
Answers:
1. The billboard in the beginning of the video mentions โNew fares from 3 January 1999โ. 2. There seems to be an Underground ticket machine near the track, the girl tries to get something out of that machine. That means there are no Oyster cards yet, which means that the video is filmed before 2003. 3. The paper in the window refers to the euro as something that is happening and has not happened yet. 4. The video is filmed on Underground station Morning Crescent, part of the Northern Line. The seats on the Northern Line in the video have a total different lining (or moquette as it is called) than nowadays. I cannot really find specific info on the history of changes of this moquette, but I know it is different than 20 years ago.
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dedlok
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 44
๐๐ป 39
March 2020
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THE MET LOTTERY, by dedlok on Feb 22, 2021 23:58:17 GMT 1, Seemingly unable to get an answer in before kjg**** or Dive Jedi but I will put forward an additional/alternative reason for the pre-2000 chronology.
Firstly for question 1 here is a video from the Cramps which, as pointed by kjq was on the shirt worn by the girl. "Human Fly" from their compilation album "Bad Music for Bad People"
For question 2, as has been pointed out by both Dive Jedi & kjg***: 1. The billboard at the beginning of the clip when the doors open states 1999
2. The newspaper seems to refer to the euro as being new " On January 1, 1999, the European Union introduced its new currency, the euro.
For am alternative third reason
3. The phone number on the girls hand begins with the numbers 0171 which was the code for London between 1995 and 2000. I believe these were phased out in 2000 in the Big Number Change when London was given a single area code of 020 and the inner and outer London distinction was removed.
Seemingly unable to get an answer in before kjg**** or Dive Jedi but I will put forward an additional/alternative reason for the pre-2000 chronology.
Firstly for question 1 here is a video from the Cramps which, as pointed by kjq was on the shirt worn by the girl. "Human Fly" from their compilation album "Bad Music for Bad People"
For question 2, as has been pointed out by both Dive Jedi & kjg***: 1. The billboard at the beginning of the clip when the doors open states 1999
2. The newspaper seems to refer to the euro as being new " On January 1, 1999, the European Union introduced its new currency, the euro.
For am alternative third reason
3. The phone number on the girls hand begins with the numbers 0171 which was the code for London between 1995 and 2000. I believe these were phased out in 2000 in the Big Number Change when London was given a single area code of 020 and the inner and outer London distinction was removed.
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kjg
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 4,388
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December 2014
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THE MET LOTTERY, by kjg on Feb 23, 2021 0:06:11 GMT 1, Very cool, I think thatโs it! I wasnโt too sure about the other two answers I gave.
Very cool, I think thatโs it! I wasnโt too sure about the other two answers I gave.
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astarti
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 325
๐๐ป 834
November 2019
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THE MET LOTTERY, by astarti on Feb 23, 2021 0:17:30 GMT 1, 1. As mentioned before by Jedi when the subway's doors open you can see a billboard with the date 1999 written on it.
2. Debate on whether UK should adopt the single currency in 1999. Obviously the newspaper was opposed, hence the headline: "The euro school of thought that is inevitably wrong". As much as I searched I couldn't find the exact article so I am just making a hypothesis here.
And finally we come to number 3 which I had to use lots of imagination to probably figure out since I have never used London underground.
3. The train starts from Mornington Crescent Station. The date is definitely after April 27th 1998 since (quote from wiki)
"On 23 October 1992 the station was shut so that the then 85-year-old lifts could be replaced. The intention was to open it within one year. However, the state of neglect meant other work had to be completed, and the station was closed until 27 April 1998" .
With the clues you gave us about the dates and a LOT of search (it's getting quite late here) I made an uneducated guess. We see a train station where accidentally the doors open and close. My guess is that this station is Charing Cross station. If one takes a look at the northern line map of underground London one can see that these two stations -Mornington Crescent Station and Charing Cross- are connected. Charing Cross station seized operations on 23rd October 1992. From wiki: "Charing Cross ending on 19 November 1999 and the final section between Green Park and Waterloo opening the following day.[110] The Jubilee line platforms were closed and walls constructed across the intermediate concourses at the top of the two banks of escalators".
As for the visual reference to an entirely separate band in this video I would have to answer by taking a closer look on the girl's T-shirt and thus say its the band the 'The Cramps'. I have absolutely no clue what this band is (pretty sure it's awesome since you put it in the quiz). However it's too late here to start playing music videos so I ll just pick a random song and if it is OK I ll post another tomorrow after I have had the time to research a bit further.
Hopefully I am not totally off in my answers. Thank you met for this challenge.
1. As mentioned before by Jedi when the subway's doors open you can see a billboard with the date 1999 written on it.
2. Debate on whether UK should adopt the single currency in 1999. Obviously the newspaper was opposed, hence the headline: "The euro school of thought that is inevitably wrong". As much as I searched I couldn't find the exact article so I am just making a hypothesis here.
And finally we come to number 3 which I had to use lots of imagination to probably figure out since I have never used London underground.
3. The train starts from Mornington Crescent Station. The date is definitely after April 27th 1998 since (quote from wiki)
"On 23 October 1992 the station was shut so that the then 85-year-old lifts could be replaced. The intention was to open it within one year. However, the state of neglect meant other work had to be completed, and the station was closed until 27 April 1998" .
With the clues you gave us about the dates and a LOT of search (it's getting quite late here) I made an uneducated guess. We see a train station where accidentally the doors open and close. My guess is that this station is Charing Cross station. If one takes a look at the northern line map of underground London one can see that these two stations -Mornington Crescent Station and Charing Cross- are connected. Charing Cross station seized operations on 23rd October 1992. From wiki: "Charing Cross ending on 19 November 1999 and the final section between Green Park and Waterloo opening the following day.[110] The Jubilee line platforms were closed and walls constructed across the intermediate concourses at the top of the two banks of escalators".
As for the visual reference to an entirely separate band in this video I would have to answer by taking a closer look on the girl's T-shirt and thus say its the band the 'The Cramps'. I have absolutely no clue what this band is (pretty sure it's awesome since you put it in the quiz). However it's too late here to start playing music videos so I ll just pick a random song and if it is OK I ll post another tomorrow after I have had the time to research a bit further.
Hopefully I am not totally off in my answers. Thank you met for this challenge.
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astarti
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 325
๐๐ป 834
November 2019
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THE MET LOTTERY, by astarti on Feb 23, 2021 0:20:37 GMT 1, 1. As mentioned before by Jedi when the subway's doors open you can see a billboard with the date 1999 written on it. 2. Debate on whether UK should adopt the single currency in 1999. Obviously the newspaper was opposed, hence the headline: "The euro school of thought that is inevitably wrong". As much as I searched I couldn't find the exact article so I am just making a hypothesis here. And finally we come to number 3 which I had to use lots of imagination to probably figure out since I have never used London underground. 3. The train starts from Mornington Crescent Station. The date is definitely after April 27th 1998 since (quote from wiki) "On 23 October 1992 the station was shut so that the then 85-year-old lifts could be replaced. The intention was to open it within one year. However, the state of neglect meant other work had to be completed, and the station was closed until 27 April 1998" . With the clues you gave us about the dates and a LOT of search (it's getting quite late here) I made an uneducated guess. We see a train station where accidentally the doors open and close. My guess is that this station is Charing Cross station. If one takes a look at the northern line map of underground London one can see that these two stations -Mornington Crescent Station and Charing Cross- are connected. Charing Cross station seized operations on 23rd October 1992. From wiki: "Charing Cross ending on 19 November 1999 and the final section between Green Park and Waterloo opening the following day.[110] The Jubilee line platforms were closed and walls constructed across the intermediate concourses at the top of the two banks of escalators". As for the visual reference to an entirely separate band in this video I would have to answer by taking a closer look on the girl's T-shirt and thus say its the band the 'The Cramps'. I have absolutely no clue what this band is (pretty sure it's awesome since you put it in the quiz). However it's too late here to start playing music videos so I ll just pick a random song and if it is OK I ll post another tomorrow after I have had the time to research a bit further. Hopefully I am not totally off in my answers. Thank you met for this challenge.
I made a typo on the dates!!! Its 1.20 here! I won't correct it but please take in account the wiki quote on Charing Cross where is the correct date.
1. As mentioned before by Jedi when the subway's doors open you can see a billboard with the date 1999 written on it. 2. Debate on whether UK should adopt the single currency in 1999. Obviously the newspaper was opposed, hence the headline: "The euro school of thought that is inevitably wrong". As much as I searched I couldn't find the exact article so I am just making a hypothesis here. And finally we come to number 3 which I had to use lots of imagination to probably figure out since I have never used London underground. 3. The train starts from Mornington Crescent Station. The date is definitely after April 27th 1998 since (quote from wiki) "On 23 October 1992 the station was shut so that the then 85-year-old lifts could be replaced. The intention was to open it within one year. However, the state of neglect meant other work had to be completed, and the station was closed until 27 April 1998" . With the clues you gave us about the dates and a LOT of search (it's getting quite late here) I made an uneducated guess. We see a train station where accidentally the doors open and close. My guess is that this station is Charing Cross station. If one takes a look at the northern line map of underground London one can see that these two stations -Mornington Crescent Station and Charing Cross- are connected. Charing Cross station seized operations on 23rd October 1992. From wiki: "Charing Cross ending on 19 November 1999 and the final section between Green Park and Waterloo opening the following day.[110] The Jubilee line platforms were closed and walls constructed across the intermediate concourses at the top of the two banks of escalators". As for the visual reference to an entirely separate band in this video I would have to answer by taking a closer look on the girl's T-shirt and thus say its the band the 'The Cramps'. I have absolutely no clue what this band is (pretty sure it's awesome since you put it in the quiz). However it's too late here to start playing music videos so I ll just pick a random song and if it is OK I ll post another tomorrow after I have had the time to research a bit further. Hopefully I am not totally off in my answers. Thank you met for this challenge. I made a typo on the dates!!! Its 1.20 here! I won't correct it but please take in account the wiki quote on Charing Cross where is the correct date.
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dedlok
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 44
๐๐ป 39
March 2020
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THE MET LOTTERY, by dedlok on Feb 23, 2021 0:26:39 GMT 1, thanks kjq****, but i think stikfan has it..... Don't know how i could have missed the Prince Edward reference. I guess not being from the UK means I am not up to scratch on my royal knowledge.....
thanks kjq****, but i think stikfan has it..... Don't know how i could have missed the Prince Edward reference. I guess not being from the UK means I am not up to scratch on my royal knowledge.....
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met
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,796
๐๐ป 6,762
June 2009
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THE MET LOTTERY, by met on Feb 23, 2021 14:53:52 GMT 1, Seemingly unable to get an answer in before kjg**** or Dive Jedi but I will put forward an additional/alternative reason for the pre-2000 chronology. Firstly for question 1 here is a video from the Cramps which, as pointed by kjq was on the shirt worn by the girl. "Human Fly" from their compilation album "Bad Music for Bad People" For question 2, as has been pointed out by both Dive Jedi & kjg***: 1. The billboard at the beginning of the clip when the doors open states 1999 2. The newspaper seems to refer to the euro as being new " On January 1, 1999, the European Union introduced its new currency, the euro. For am alternative third reason 3. The phone number on the girls hand begins with the numbers 0171 which was the code for London between 1995 and 2000. I believe these were phased out in 2000 in the Big Number Change when London was given a single area code of 020 and the inner and outer London distinction was removed.
dedlok โ While acknowledging the fine efforts of Dive Jedi, kjg, astarti and stikfan, I'm declaring you the winner of the competition. Congratulations.
This kind of scenario always leaves me conflicted. You were ineligible under the competition rules* to participate in the first place, due to having an insufficient number of posts (the minimum being 91 undeleted posts).
On the one hand, my focus is with principle, fairness to others, and thin-end-of-the-wedge considerations. On the other hand, I'm rather fond of well-executed rule-breaking โ clever graffiti being another such example.
Since:
(i) you were the sole member to identify a piece of evidence that was difficult to spot; and
(ii) the prize at stake of cookies is inconsequential to anyone bar a monster,
in this instance I chose the path of potential chaos over order.
__________
Will try to follow-up later today with reference answers and additional commentary.
Seemingly unable to get an answer in before kjg**** or Dive Jedi but I will put forward an additional/alternative reason for the pre-2000 chronology. Firstly for question 1 here is a video from the Cramps which, as pointed by kjq was on the shirt worn by the girl. "Human Fly" from their compilation album "Bad Music for Bad People" For question 2, as has been pointed out by both Dive Jedi & kjg***: 1. The billboard at the beginning of the clip when the doors open states 1999 2. The newspaper seems to refer to the euro as being new " On January 1, 1999, the European Union introduced its new currency, the euro. For am alternative third reason 3. The phone number on the girls hand begins with the numbers 0171 which was the code for London between 1995 and 2000. I believe these were phased out in 2000 in the Big Number Change when London was given a single area code of 020 and the inner and outer London distinction was removed. dedlok โ While acknowledging the fine efforts of Dive Jedi, kjg, astarti and stikfan, I'm declaring you the winner of the competition. Congratulations. This kind of scenario always leaves me conflicted. You were ineligible under the competition rules * to participate in the first place, due to having an insufficient number of posts (the minimum being 91 undeleted posts). On the one hand, my focus is with principle, fairness to others, and thin-end-of-the-wedge considerations. On the other hand, I'm rather fond of well-executed rule-breaking โ clever graffiti being another such example. Since: (i) you were the sole member to identify a piece of evidence that was difficult to spot; and (ii) the prize at stake of cookies is inconsequential to anyone bar a monster, in this instance I chose the path of potential chaos over order. __________ Will try to follow-up later today with reference answers and additional commentary.
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dedlok
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 44
๐๐ป 39
March 2020
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THE MET LOTTERY, by dedlok on Feb 23, 2021 18:01:06 GMT 1, Thanks for the dispensation met!!!
I guess i had better work my way up to get the proper eligibility...
Thanks to you for posting these quizzes - i do find them intriguing and on this occasion I could not resist after finding that elusive clue.
I am interested to know what the fourth thing was though.....
Thanks for the dispensation met!!!
I guess i had better work my way up to get the proper eligibility...
Thanks to you for posting these quizzes - i do find them intriguing and on this occasion I could not resist after finding that elusive clue.
I am interested to know what the fourth thing was though.....
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met
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,796
๐๐ป 6,762
June 2009
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THE MET LOTTERY, by met on Feb 23, 2021 21:00:00 GMT 1, A.B.C.Would you sacrifice one person to save five? - Eleanor Nelsen [4:55]- uploaded by TED-EdAre You a Psychopath? Take the Test! | Kevin Dutton | Big Think [4:33]- uploaded by Big Thinken.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_problemD.The Iceman Interview - Analysis of Kuklinski [10:05]- uploaded by Mike M.[Comment by You Tube user, Will S: Kuklinski: โWhat do you think of meโ.
Me Interviewing him: โI think you are a very kind and decent man. Guard, weโre all done hereโ] Provided they're willing to overlook the distractingly melodramatic tone and music, interested members can watch here * the three HBO documentaries on Richard Kuklinski* in full: (i) The Iceman Tapes: Conversations with a Killer (1992) [0:00โ47:02]; (ii) The Iceman Confesses: Secrets of a Mafia Hitman (2001) [47:03โ129:55]; and (iii) The Iceman and the Psychiatrist (2002)[129:56โ2:19:57]. E.________________ At around 20:00 UK time on Tuesday 23 February, I'll quote this post and add one or more questions or instructions. The first member to answer correctly, wins.
QUESTIONS
Both questions relate to the artwork in Part B.
1. Name the artist who produced this editioned piece, its title, and its year of creation.
2. From left to right, identify next to the numbers below each person depicted.
1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9. 10.
[Deductive logic may be required in one case, given the limited detail that can be gleaned from the high-contrast portrait.]
________________
In the unlikely event that no eligible member responds correctly beforehand, answers will be posted in 24 hours โ at around 20:00 UK time on Wednesday 24 February.
A.B.C.Would you sacrifice one person to save five? - Eleanor Nelsen [4:55]- uploaded by TED-EdAre You a Psychopath? Take the Test! | Kevin Dutton | Big Think [4:33]- uploaded by Big Thinken.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_problemD.The Iceman Interview - Analysis of Kuklinski [10:05]- uploaded by Mike M.[Comment by You Tube user, Will S: Kuklinski: โWhat do you think of meโ.
Me Interviewing him: โI think you are a very kind and decent man. Guard, weโre all done hereโ] Provided they're willing to overlook the distractingly melodramatic tone and music, interested members can watch here * the three HBO documentaries on Richard Kuklinski* in full: (i) The Iceman Tapes: Conversations with a Killer (1992) [0:00โ47:02]; (ii) The Iceman Confesses: Secrets of a Mafia Hitman (2001) [47:03โ129:55]; and (iii) The Iceman and the Psychiatrist (2002)[129:56โ2:19:57]. E.________________ At around 20:00 UK time on Tuesday 23 February, I'll quote this post and add one or more questions or instructions. The first member to answer correctly, wins. QUESTIONSBoth questions relate to the artwork in Part B. 1. Name the artist who produced this editioned piece, its title, and its year of creation. 2. From left to right, identify next to the numbers below each person depicted. 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9. 10. [Deductive logic may be required in one case, given the limited detail that can be gleaned from the high-contrast portrait.]________________ In the unlikely event that no eligible member responds correctly beforehand, answers will be posted in 24 hours โ at around 20:00 UK time on Wednesday 24 February.
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met
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,796
๐๐ป 6,762
June 2009
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THE MET LOTTERY, by met on Feb 23, 2021 21:37:50 GMT 1, 1. Andy Warhol, Portraits of the Artists (For Sale II.17), 1967. 2.
1. Lee Bontecou 2. Frank Stella 3. Larry Poons 4. Robert Morris 5. Donald Judd 6. Robert Rauschenberg 7. James Rosenquist 8. Roy Lichtenstein 9. Jasper Johns 10. Andy Warhol
Impressive speed, godโs ultimate noise. I didn't even have time to finish my snack.
In case you might also be interested in an arty tea towel for yourself or to gift, here's a bonus task:
At some point over the next three days, post images of three artworks you like and/or find interesting by three of the above artists.
__________
REFERENCE ANSWERS
1.
Artist: Andy Warhol Title: Portraits of the Artists, from Ten from Leo Castelli Year: 1967
Medium: Screenprint on 100 polystyrene boxes in ten colours Dimensions: 20 x 20 inches (50.8 x 50.8 cm) Edition size: 200, with 25 copies lettered AโY
Note: This artwork depicts the portraits of ten artists represented at the time by Castelli.
www.moma.org/collection/works/78143
2.
1. Lee Bontecou
2. Frank Stella
3. Larry Poons
4. Robert Morris
5. Donald Judd
6. Robert Rauschenberg
7. James Rosenquist
8. Roy Lichtenstein
9. Jasper Johns
10. Andy Warhol
1. Andy Warhol, Portraits of the Artists (For Sale II.17), 1967. 2.
1. Lee Bontecou 2. Frank Stella 3. Larry Poons 4. Robert Morris 5. Donald Judd 6. Robert Rauschenberg 7. James Rosenquist 8. Roy Lichtenstein 9. Jasper Johns 10. Andy Warhol
Impressive speed, godโs ultimate noise. I didn't even have time to finish my snack. In case you might also be interested in an arty tea towel for yourself or to gift, here's a bonus task: At some point over the next three days, post images of three artworks you like and/or find interesting by three of the above artists. __________ REFERENCE ANSWERS1. Artist: Andy War hol Title: Portraits of the Artists, from Ten from Leo CastelliYear: 1967 Medium: Screenprint on 100 polystyrene boxes in ten colours Dimensions: 20 x 20 inches (50.8 x 50.8 cm) Edition size: 200, with 25 copies lettered AโY Note: This artwork depicts the portraits of ten artists represented at the time by Castelli. www.moma.org/collection/works/781432.1. Lee Bontecou 2. Frank Stella 3. Larry Poons 4. Robert Morris 5. Donald Judd 6. Robert Rauschenberg 7. James Rosenquist 8. Roy Lich tenstein 9. Jasper Johns 10. Andy War hol
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met
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,796
๐๐ป 6,762
June 2009
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THE MET LOTTERY, by met on Feb 24, 2021 0:35:43 GMT 1, [...] 2. Be There was released last century. And it's possible to work out that chronology from the contents of the video itself. Answers: 1. The billboard in the beginning of the video mentions โNew fares from 3 January 1999โ. 2. There seems to be an Underground ticket machine near the track, the girl tries to get something out of that machine. That means there are no Oyster cards yet, which means that the video is filmed before 2003. 3. The paper in the window refers to the euro as something that is happening and has not happened yet. 4. The video is filmed on Underground station Morning Crescent, part of the Northern Line. The seats on the Northern Line in the video have a total different lining (or moquette as it is called) than nowadays. I cannot really find specific info on the history of changes of this moquette, but I know it is different than 20 years ago.
kjg โ Some comments on your answers to Question 2:
1. Well spotted.
2. What you believed may have been a ticket machine is in fact a vending machine the actress briefly plays with out of boredom.
And even if one considers the presence of a vending machine on the train platform, it still isn't germane to the particular timeline the question relates to โ i.e. distinguishing (a) the years up to 2000, from (b) the year 2001 onwards.
My good mates on the London Underground Forum (shout out to metrailway, reganorak and Tubeboy) say most platform vending machines were removed later, circa 2007โ08:
districtdavesforum.co.uk/post/392631/thread
[For members who find threads like the Mrs Banksy thread to be of interest, or who enjoy animated masturbatory posts with running commentary on Banksy or Stik hammer prices in mid-auction, do check out the London Underground Forum. The banter on the LUF seems, at the very least, equally as stimulating.]
I should add that London Underground ticket machines are located by the entrance of stations before the turnstiles, rather than on the train platforms. Also, notwithstanding the introduction of Oyster cards in 2003, paper tickets continue to be available for purchase.
3. Not quite, but will comment on this in the reference answers.
4. The video was indeed shot in Mornington Crescent. I verified this myself, comparing stills from Be There with photos of that station โ to make sure I wasn't simply parroting (possibly inaccurate) information from Wikipedia and other online sources.
The next part of your answer, however, is based on a false premise. Because filming took place in a Northern Line tube station, you assumed the carriage scenes were shot on a Northern Line train. The assumption was reasonable but incorrect. Those scenes were filmed on a train from the Circle Line, Hammersmith & City Line, or District Line (WimbledonโEdgware Road section).
That said, your general idea about different moquettes being used over different periods was very good. At one point, many tube lines had their own moquette designs to give them separate visual identities.
By the way, thank you for introducing me to the term "moquette". It opened a whole new and magical world on Google. I am now looking forward to my next chat with strangers on the train during morning rush hour. When I casually slip this word into the conversation, their facial expressions will almost surely betray how impressed they'll be.
And although I already buy too many books, Seats of London: A Field Guide to London Transport Moquette Patterns might now be on my Amazon wish list:
In Be There, the moquette is the one below, which was introduced in trains running on the Circle Line, Hammersmith & City Line, and District Line (WimbledonโEdgware Road section only) between 1990 and 1994:
The above was phased out, but only around 2003 (being later than the time distinction that the competition question relates to). It was gradually replaced by this:
And since 2014, the seating of about four lines* on the London Underground has the following moquette (a design based on Liquorice Allsorts):
[...] 2. Be There was released last century. And it's possible to work out that chronology from the contents of the video itself. Answers: 1. The billboard in the beginning of the video mentions โNew fares from 3 January 1999โ. 2. There seems to be an Underground ticket machine near the track, the girl tries to get something out of that machine. That means there are no Oyster cards yet, which means that the video is filmed before 2003. 3. The paper in the window refers to the euro as something that is happening and has not happened yet. 4. The video is filmed on Underground station Morning Crescent, part of the Northern Line. The seats on the Northern Line in the video have a total different lining (or moquette as it is called) than nowadays. I cannot really find specific info on the history of changes of this moquette, but I know it is different than 20 years ago. kjg โ Some comments on your answers to Question 2: 1. Well spotted. 2. What you believed may have been a ticket machine is in fact a vending machine the actress briefly plays with out of boredom. And even if one considers the presence of a vending machine on the train platform, it still isn't germane to the particular timeline the question relates to โ i.e. distinguishing (a) the years up to 2000, from (b) the year 2001 onwards. My good mates on the London Underground Forum (shout out to metrailway, reganorak and Tubeboy) say most platform vending machines were removed later, circa 2007โ08: districtdavesforum.co.uk/post/392631/thread[For members who find threads like the Mrs Banksy thread to be of interest, or who enjoy animated masturbatory posts with running commentary on Banksy or Stik hammer prices in mid-auction, do check out the London Underground Forum. The banter on the LUF seems, at the very least, equally as stimulating.]I should add that London Underground ticket machines are located by the entrance of stations before the turnstiles, rather than on the train platforms. Also, notwithstanding the introduction of Oyster cards in 2003, paper tickets continue to be available for purchase. 3. Not quite, but will comment on this in the reference answers. 4. The video was indeed shot in Mornington Crescent. I verified this myself, comparing stills from Be There with photos of that station โ to make sure I wasn't simply parroting (possibly inaccurate) information from Wikipedia and other online sources. The next part of your answer, however, is based on a false premise. Because filming took place in a Northern Line tube station, you assumed the carriage scenes were shot on a Northern Line train. The assumption was reasonable but incorrect. Those scenes were filmed on a train from the Circle Line, Hammersmith & City Line, or District Line (WimbledonโEdgware Road section). That said, your general idea about different moquettes being used over different periods was very good. At one point, many tube lines had their own moquette designs to give them separate visual identities. By the way, thank you for introducing me to the term "moquette". It opened a whole new and magical world on Google. I am now looking forward to my next chat with strangers on the train during morning rush hour. When I casually slip this word into the conversation, their facial expressions will almost surely betray how impressed they'll be. And although I already buy too many books, Seats of London: A Field Guide to London Transport Moquette Patterns might now be on my Amazon wish list: In Be There, the moquette is the one below, which was introduced in trains running on the Circle Line, Hammersmith & City Line, and District Line (WimbledonโEdgware Road section only) between 1990 and 1994: The above was phased out, but only around 2003 (being later than the time distinction that the competition question relates to). It was gradually replaced by this: And since 2014, the seating of about four lines * on the London Underground has the following moquette (a design based on Liquorice Allsorts):
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met
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,796
๐๐ป 6,762
June 2009
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THE MET LOTTERY, by met on Feb 24, 2021 7:13:04 GMT 1, 1. As mentioned before by Jedi when the subway's doors open you can see a billboard with the date 1999 written on it. 2. Debate on whether UK should adopt the single currency in 1999. Obviously the newspaper was opposed, hence the headline: "The euro school of thought that is inevitably wrong". As much as I searched I couldn't find the exact article so I am just making a hypothesis here. And finally we come to number 3 which I had to use lots of imagination to probably figure out since I have never used London underground. 3. The train starts from Mornington Crescent Station. The date is definitely after April 27th 1998 since (quote from wiki) "On 23 October 1992 the station was shut so that the then 85-year-old lifts could be replaced. The intention was to open it within one year. However, the state of neglect meant other work had to be completed, and the station was closed until 27 April 1998" . With the clues you gave us about the dates and a LOT of search (it's getting quite late here) I made an uneducated guess. We see a train station where accidentally the doors open and close. My guess is that this station is Charing Cross station. If one takes a look at the northern line map of underground London one can see that these two stations -Mornington Crescent Station and Charing Cross- are connected. Charing Cross station seized operations on 23rd October 1992. From wiki: "Charing Cross ending on 19 November 1999 and the final section between Green Park and Waterloo opening the following day.[110] The Jubilee line platforms were closed and walls constructed across the intermediate concourses at the top of the two banks of escalators". As for the visual reference to an entirely separate band in this video I would have to answer by taking a closer look on the girl's T-shirt and thus say its the band the 'The Cramps'. I have absolutely no clue what this band is (pretty sure it's awesome since you put it in the quiz). However it's too late here to start playing music videos so I ll just pick a random song and if it is OK I ll post another tomorrow after I have had the time to research a bit further. Hopefully I am not totally off in my answers. Thank you met for this challenge.
astarti โ Some comments on your answers:
Question 2
1. Correct.
2. The newspaper was The Times from Tuesday, 5 January 1999. That date, combined with the good condition of the paper, is the most convincing indication of when the video for Be There was filmed.
Separately, the visible headline, 'The euro school of thought that is inevitably wrong', did offer some evidence. But it was hardly conclusive โ because such an article could also have been written after 2000, e.g. in 2001 when Greece joined the euro, or in 2002 when euro notes and coins became legal tender in a dozen countries.
My position here was relaxed, mainly because finding the article (and determining its exact date) was far from straightforward.
3. I'll refer back to an earlier reply to kjg about filming having been done, not on a Northern Line train, but on one from the Circle Line, Hammersmith & City Line, or District Line (WimbledonโEdgware Road section). That train would not therefore have stopped at Charing Cross.
But since I was interested in your reasoning, I did check out the Wikipedia page for Charing Cross tube station. What I found is that the reference you spotted to a closure (with services "ending on 19 November 1999") related only to the separate Jubilee Line, which had previously terminated at Charing Cross. The Northern Line services through that station remained open.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charing_Cross_tube_station#Closure_of_Jubilee_line_platforms
There follows sections of two London Underground maps from May 1999 and December 1999. They help to better illustrate the Jubilee Line closure at Charing Cross (and lack of change with the Northern Line):
May 1999 โ Jubilee Line in silver, with stops including at Bond Street, Green Park, and then terminating at Charing Cross.
December 1999 โ Jubilee Line (following the line's closure at Charing Cross), with stops including at Bond Street, Green Park, and now Westminster, Waterloo, and beyond.
Source*
Question 1
Although barely mentioned by forum members, The Cramps were topical again last year, when Invader gave them an express nod with his Pixel Fly t-shirts:
As for the Cramps video, despite picking at random, your selection was inspired. That live performance of Tear It Up is rather excellent. Many thanks for posting.
In case others are interested in watching the full music documentary, Urgh! A Music War (1981)*, it's available on Vimeo.
Footage includes The Go-Go's (36:35) performing at Whisky a Go Go on 17 August 1980. We Got the Beat had just been released as a single in the UK the previous month through Stiff Records. This was shortly after they came back from a tour supporting Madness, as well as a separate tour supporting The Specials and The Bodysnatchers. At the time, Margot Olavarria was still in the band.
1. As mentioned before by Jedi when the subway's doors open you can see a billboard with the date 1999 written on it. 2. Debate on whether UK should adopt the single currency in 1999. Obviously the newspaper was opposed, hence the headline: "The euro school of thought that is inevitably wrong". As much as I searched I couldn't find the exact article so I am just making a hypothesis here. And finally we come to number 3 which I had to use lots of imagination to probably figure out since I have never used London underground. 3. The train starts from Mornington Crescent Station. The date is definitely after April 27th 1998 since (quote from wiki) "On 23 October 1992 the station was shut so that the then 85-year-old lifts could be replaced. The intention was to open it within one year. However, the state of neglect meant other work had to be completed, and the station was closed until 27 April 1998" . With the clues you gave us about the dates and a LOT of search (it's getting quite late here) I made an uneducated guess. We see a train station where accidentally the doors open and close. My guess is that this station is Charing Cross station. If one takes a look at the northern line map of underground London one can see that these two stations -Mornington Crescent Station and Charing Cross- are connected. Charing Cross station seized operations on 23rd October 1992. From wiki: "Charing Cross ending on 19 November 1999 and the final section between Green Park and Waterloo opening the following day.[110] The Jubilee line platforms were closed and walls constructed across the intermediate concourses at the top of the two banks of escalators". As for the visual reference to an entirely separate band in this video I would have to answer by taking a closer look on the girl's T-shirt and thus say its the band the 'The Cramps'. I have absolutely no clue what this band is (pretty sure it's awesome since you put it in the quiz). However it's too late here to start playing music videos so I ll just pick a random song and if it is OK I ll post another tomorrow after I have had the time to research a bit further. Hopefully I am not totally off in my answers. Thank you met for this challenge. astarti โ Some comments on your answers: Question 21. Correct. 2. The newspaper was The Times from Tuesday, 5 January 1999. That date, combined with the good condition of the paper, is the most convincing indication of when the video for Be There was filmed. Separately, the visible headline, 'The euro school of thought that is inevitably wrong', did offer some evidence. But it was hardly conclusive โ because such an article could also have been written after 2000, e.g. in 2001 when Greece joined the euro, or in 2002 when euro notes and coins became legal tender in a dozen countries. My position here was relaxed, mainly because finding the article (and determining its exact date) was far from straightforward. 3. I'll refer back to an earlier reply to kjg about filming having been done, not on a Northern Line train, but on one from the Circle Line, Hammersmith & City Line, or District Line (WimbledonโEdgware Road section). That train would not therefore have stopped at Charing Cross. But since I was interested in your reasoning, I did check out the Wikipedia page for Charing Cross tube station. What I found is that the reference you spotted to a closure (with services "ending on 19 November 1999") related only to the separate Jubilee Line, which had previously terminated at Charing Cross. The Northern Line services through that station remained open. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charing_Cross_tube_station#Closure_of_Jubilee_line_platformsThere follows sections of two London Underground maps from May 1999 and December 1999. They help to better illustrate the Jubilee Line closure at Charing Cross (and lack of change with the Northern Line): May 1999 โ Jubilee Line in silver, with stops including at Bond Street, Green Park, and then terminating at Charing Cross.December 1999 โ Jubilee Line (following the line's closure at Charing Cross), with stops including at Bond Street, Green Park, and now Westminster, Waterloo, and beyond.Source *Question 1Although barely mentioned by forum members, The Cramps were topical again last year, when Invader gave them an express nod with his Pixel Fly t-shirts: As for the Cramps video, despite picking at random, your selection was inspired. That live performance of Tear It Up is rather excellent. Many thanks for posting. In case others are interested in watching the full music documentary, Urgh! A Music War (1981) *, it's available on Vimeo. Footage includes The Go-Go's (36:35) performing at Whisky a Go Go on 17 August 1980. We Got the Beat had just been released as a single in the UK the previous month through Stiff Records. This was shortly after they came back from a tour supporting Madness, as well as a separate tour supporting The Specials and The Bodysnatchers. At the time, Margot Olavarria was still in the band.
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viz
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 264
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September 2017
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THE MET LOTTERY, by viz on Feb 24, 2021 12:13:48 GMT 1, A.Key & Peele - You Can Do Anything- uploaded by Key & PeeleB.DoubleSpeak, How to Lie without Lying- uploaded by What I've Learned1989 C-SPAN Interview: William Lutz โ "Doublespeak"- uploaded by AhamoC.Jonathan Haidt - The moral roots of liberals and conservatives (TED2008, Monterey, California, February 2008)- uploaded by TED-EdWhat is a 'Bigoteer'? (Pt. 2) | Tim Ferriss | LIFESTYLE | Rubin Report- uploaded by The Rubin Report on 22 December 2016________________ NB: This competition will have a different format to the previous ones โ by incorporating a qualifying round for up to five members. At around 20:00 UK time on Thursday 18 February, I'll quote this post and add a single question. The first five members to give a correct answer will be invited to participate in Stage 2. There will be multiple correct answers to choose from. For an answer to qualify, it must not be the same as any of the ones given by other members who may have already qualified. Stage 2 will involve a leisurely task. Each qualifying member (up to five in total) who successfully completes that task will win the competition. QUESTIONThis qualifying-round question relates to the second video in Part B โ the 20 December 1989 interview with William Lutz, who is discussing his book, Double-Speak: The Use of Language to Deceive You. It is a pleasant (albeit slightly dull) exchange about a topic of great interest to me โ how words are consciously used to manipulate, distort reality and corrupt understanding. Excluding the more general Thucydides references, I counted 16 specific examples of doublespeak expressions being mentioned, either by Lutz himself or by C-SPAN host, Brian Lamb. State: (i) one specific example of a doublespeak expression cited by Lutz or Lamb; (ii) the approximate time into the video when it's brought up; and (iii) what that doublespeak expression actually refers or referred to, using clear language instead. ________________ The first five eligible members* to give a correct answer will qualify for Stage 2 of the competition. NB: Responses may not be the same as any already provided by faster participants. If somebody offers an answer that was previously given by another person, they'll be disqualified. The onus is therefore on members to refresh this thread and check the latest posts before posting themselves. [If there happens to be a case of duplicate answers due to cross-posting within a brief time period of, say, 10 seconds, I'll exercise reasonable discretion and allow the second poster to try again with a different answer.]This Stage 1 of the competition will remain open for 72 hours one week, or until successful completion by five eligible members, whichever is sooner. The leisurely task for Stage 2 will be announced at around 20:00 UK time on Sunday 21 February Thursday 25 February (or possibly earlier, if five participants qualify before then). EDIT: Extension of time period for answering the qualifying-round question. After a while I managed to go through the whole video, very very interesting, personally I enjoyed the part about dictionaries and foreign languages, although a little off the main topic.
State:
(i) "economically nonaffluent", also included in the title of one the chapters of the book
(ii) 27:10
(iii) the real meaning being nothing but "poor"; the expression was used by the president of the City University of New York when talking about "poor students" attending the school.
A.Key & Peele - You Can Do Anything- uploaded by Key & PeeleB.DoubleSpeak, How to Lie without Lying- uploaded by What I've Learned1989 C-SPAN Interview: William Lutz โ "Doublespeak"- uploaded by AhamoC.Jonathan Haidt - The moral roots of liberals and conservatives (TED2008, Monterey, California, February 2008)- uploaded by TED-EdWhat is a 'Bigoteer'? (Pt. 2) | Tim Ferriss | LIFESTYLE | Rubin Report- uploaded by The Rubin Report on 22 December 2016________________ NB: This competition will have a different format to the previous ones โ by incorporating a qualifying round for up to five members. At around 20:00 UK time on Thursday 18 February, I'll quote this post and add a single question. The first five members to give a correct answer will be invited to participate in Stage 2. There will be multiple correct answers to choose from. For an answer to qualify, it must not be the same as any of the ones given by other members who may have already qualified. Stage 2 will involve a leisurely task. Each qualifying member (up to five in total) who successfully completes that task will win the competition. QUESTIONThis qualifying-round question relates to the second video in Part B โ the 20 December 1989 interview with William Lutz, who is discussing his book, Double-Speak: The Use of Language to Deceive You. It is a pleasant (albeit slightly dull) exchange about a topic of great interest to me โ how words are consciously used to manipulate, distort reality and corrupt understanding. Excluding the more general Thucydides references, I counted 16 specific examples of doublespeak expressions being mentioned, either by Lutz himself or by C-SPAN host, Brian Lamb. State: (i) one specific example of a doublespeak expression cited by Lutz or Lamb; (ii) the approximate time into the video when it's brought up; and (iii) what that doublespeak expression actually refers or referred to, using clear language instead. ________________ The first five eligible members* to give a correct answer will qualify for Stage 2 of the competition. NB: Responses may not be the same as any already provided by faster participants. If somebody offers an answer that was previously given by another person, they'll be disqualified. The onus is therefore on members to refresh this thread and check the latest posts before posting themselves. [If there happens to be a case of duplicate answers due to cross-posting within a brief time period of, say, 10 seconds, I'll exercise reasonable discretion and allow the second poster to try again with a different answer.]This Stage 1 of the competition will remain open for 72 hours one week, or until successful completion by five eligible members, whichever is sooner. The leisurely task for Stage 2 will be announced at around 20:00 UK time on Sunday 21 February Thursday 25 February (or possibly earlier, if five participants qualify before then). EDIT: Extension of time period for answering the qualifying-round question. After a while I managed to go through the whole video, very very interesting, personally I enjoyed the part about dictionaries and foreign languages, although a little off the main topic. State: (i) "economically nonaffluent", also included in the title of one the chapters of the book (ii) 27:10 (iii) the real meaning being nothing but "poor"; the expression was used by the president of the City University of New York when talking about "poor students" attending the school.
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met
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,796
๐๐ป 6,762
June 2009
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THE MET LOTTERY, by met on Feb 25, 2021 20:44:44 GMT 1, QUESTIONThis qualifying-round question relates to the second video in Part B โ the 20 December 1989 interview with William Lutz, who is discussing his book, Double-Speak: The Use of Language to Deceive You. It is a pleasant (albeit slightly dull) exchange about a topic of great interest to me โ how words are consciously used to manipulate, distort reality and corrupt understanding. Excluding the more general Thucydides references, I counted 16 specific examples of doublespeak expressions being mentioned, either by Lutz himself or by C-SPAN host, Brian Lamb. State: (i) one specific example of a doublespeak expression cited by Lutz or Lamb; (ii) the approximate time into the video when it's brought up; and (iii) what that doublespeak expression actually refers or referred to, using clear language instead. ________________ The first five eligible members* to give a correct answer will qualify for Stage 2 of the competition. NB: Responses may not be the same as any already provided by faster participants. If somebody offers an answer that was previously given by another person, they'll be disqualified. The onus is therefore on members to refresh this thread and check the latest posts before posting themselves. [If there happens to be a case of duplicate answers due to cross-posting within a brief time period of, say, 10 seconds, I'll exercise reasonable discretion and allow the second poster to try again with a different answer.]This Stage 1 of the competition will remain open for 72 hours one week, or until successful completion by five eligible members, whichever is sooner. The leisurely task for Stage 2 will be announced at around 20:00 UK time on Sunday 21 February Thursday 25 February (or possibly earlier, if five participants qualify before then). EDIT: Extension of time period for answering the qualifying-round question. After a while I managed to go through the whole video, very very interesting, personally I enjoyed the part about dictionaries and foreign languages, although a little off the main topic. State: (i) "economically nonaffluent", also included in the title of one the chapters of the book (ii) 27:10 (iii) the real meaning being nothing but "poor"; the expression was used by the president of the City University of New York when talking about "poor students" attending the school.
Nicely done, viz. You are through to Stage 2.
I also enjoyed the part about foreign languages, including their potential to influence how we interpret the things around us.
QUESTIONThis qualifying-round question relates to the second video in Part B โ the 20 December 1989 interview with William Lutz, who is discussing his book, Double-Speak: The Use of Language to Deceive You. It is a pleasant (albeit slightly dull) exchange about a topic of great interest to me โ how words are consciously used to manipulate, distort reality and corrupt understanding. Excluding the more general Thucydides references, I counted 16 specific examples of doublespeak expressions being mentioned, either by Lutz himself or by C-SPAN host, Brian Lamb. State: (i) one specific example of a doublespeak expression cited by Lutz or Lamb; (ii) the approximate time into the video when it's brought up; and (iii) what that doublespeak expression actually refers or referred to, using clear language instead. ________________ The first five eligible members* to give a correct answer will qualify for Stage 2 of the competition. NB: Responses may not be the same as any already provided by faster participants. If somebody offers an answer that was previously given by another person, they'll be disqualified. The onus is therefore on members to refresh this thread and check the latest posts before posting themselves. [If there happens to be a case of duplicate answers due to cross-posting within a brief time period of, say, 10 seconds, I'll exercise reasonable discretion and allow the second poster to try again with a different answer.]This Stage 1 of the competition will remain open for 72 hours one week, or until successful completion by five eligible members, whichever is sooner. The leisurely task for Stage 2 will be announced at around 20:00 UK time on Sunday 21 February Thursday 25 February (or possibly earlier, if five participants qualify before then). EDIT: Extension of time period for answering the qualifying-round question. After a while I managed to go through the whole video, very very interesting, personally I enjoyed the part about dictionaries and foreign languages, although a little off the main topic. State: (i) "economically nonaffluent", also included in the title of one the chapters of the book (ii) 27:10 (iii) the real meaning being nothing but "poor"; the expression was used by the president of the City University of New York when talking about "poor students" attending the school. Nicely done, viz. You are through to Stage 2. I also enjoyed the part about foreign languages, including their potential to influence how we interpret the things around us.
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met
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,796
๐๐ป 6,762
June 2009
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THE MET LOTTERY, by met on Feb 25, 2021 21:03:18 GMT 1, A.Key & Peele - You Can Do Anything- uploaded by Key & PeeleB.DoubleSpeak, How to Lie without Lying- uploaded by What I've Learned1989 C-SPAN Interview: William Lutz โ "Doublespeak"- uploaded by AhamoC.Jonathan Haidt - The moral roots of liberals and conservatives (TED2008, Monterey, California, February 2008)- uploaded by TED-EdWhat is a 'Bigoteer'? (Pt. 2) | Tim Ferriss | LIFESTYLE | Rubin Report- uploaded by The Rubin Report on 22 December 2016________________ NB: This competition will have a different format to the previous ones โ by incorporating a qualifying round for up to five members. At around 20:00 UK time on Thursday 18 February, I'll quote this post and add a single question. The first five members to give a correct answer will be invited to participate in Stage 2. There will be multiple correct answers to choose from. For an answer to qualify, it must not be the same as any of the ones given by other members who may have already qualified. Stage 2 will involve a leisurely task. Each qualifying member (up to five in total) who successfully completes that task will win the competition. QUESTIONThis qualifying-round question relates to the second video in Part B โ the 20 December 1989 interview with William Lutz, who is discussing his book, Double-Speak: The Use of Language to Deceive You. It is a pleasant (albeit slightly dull) exchange about a topic of great interest to me โ how words are consciously used to manipulate, distort reality and corrupt understanding. Excluding the more general Thucydides references, I counted 16 specific examples of doublespeak expressions being mentioned, either by Lutz himself or by C-SPAN host, Brian Lamb. State: (i) one specific example of a doublespeak expression cited by Lutz or Lamb; (ii) the approximate time into the video when it's brought up; and (iii) what that doublespeak expression actually refers or referred to, using clear language instead. ________________ The first five eligible members* to give a correct answer will qualify for Stage 2 of the competition. NB: Responses may not be the same as any already provided by faster participants. If somebody offers an answer that was previously given by another person, they'll be disqualified. The onus is therefore on members to refresh this thread and check the latest posts before posting themselves. [If there happens to be a case of duplicate answers due to cross-posting within a brief time period of, say, 10 seconds, I'll exercise reasonable discretion and allow the second poster to try again with a different answer.]This Stage 1 of the competition will remain open for 72 hours one week, or until successful completion by five eligible members, whichever is sooner. The leisurely task for Stage 2 will be announced at around 20:00 UK time on Sunday 21 February Thursday 25 February (or possibly earlier, if five participants qualify before then). EDIT: Extension of time period for answering the qualifying-round question.
Cut-off time.
A full week seems more than fair, and I need not have been concerned about unmanageable numbers of participants entering the competition.
____________________
This Stage 2 shall be exclusive to kjg, astarti and viz.
It relates again to the notion of doublespeak, covered in the two videos in Part B.
STAGE 2 TASK
At the start of his 1989 C-SPAN interview, William Lutz confirms what doublespeak is:
Doublespeak is language designed to evade responsibility, make the unpleasant appear pleasant, the unattractive appear attractive. Basically, it's language that pretends to communicate, but really doesn't. It is language designed to mislead, while pretending not to.
And when host Brian Lamb asks him whether it's done consciously, Lutz explains:
Oh, yes! Very consciously. Doublespeak is not a slip of the tongue or a mistaken use of language, it's exactly the opposite. It is language used by people who are very intelligent and very sophisticated in the use of language, and know that you can do an awful lot with language.
While the above offers a helpful general description, there exists a variety of specific kinds of doublespeak. They include (but aren't necessarily limited to) the four types mentioned in Lutz's book on the subject.
__________
kjg, astarti and viz:
Define or describe one specific type of doublespeak you feel you most need to be on your guard against when reading or listening to what others are saying.
Answers may be a straight cut-and-paste from a Google search result, or phrased in your own words. They might cover a well-recognised category of doublespeak, or something different that still falls within the realm of the concept. They can be a single sentence in length, or a few paragraphs.
Your choice entirely. What's important is that your answer be considered, and that you be satisfied with it.
If needed, these two web pages (among countless others) can offer guidance or inspiration:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doublespeak
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doublespeak_Award
This is meant as a leisurely exercise, and one that could possibly benefit each participant. If you intend to complete the task, please do so within a fortnight, by 20:00 UK time on Thursday 11 March.
Good luck.
A.Key & Peele - You Can Do Anything- uploaded by Key & PeeleB.DoubleSpeak, How to Lie without Lying- uploaded by What I've Learned1989 C-SPAN Interview: William Lutz โ "Doublespeak"- uploaded by AhamoC.Jonathan Haidt - The moral roots of liberals and conservatives (TED2008, Monterey, California, February 2008)- uploaded by TED-EdWhat is a 'Bigoteer'? (Pt. 2) | Tim Ferriss | LIFESTYLE | Rubin Report- uploaded by The Rubin Report on 22 December 2016________________ NB: This competition will have a different format to the previous ones โ by incorporating a qualifying round for up to five members. At around 20:00 UK time on Thursday 18 February, I'll quote this post and add a single question. The first five members to give a correct answer will be invited to participate in Stage 2. There will be multiple correct answers to choose from. For an answer to qualify, it must not be the same as any of the ones given by other members who may have already qualified. Stage 2 will involve a leisurely task. Each qualifying member (up to five in total) who successfully completes that task will win the competition. QUESTIONThis qualifying-round question relates to the second video in Part B โ the 20 December 1989 interview with William Lutz, who is discussing his book, Double-Speak: The Use of Language to Deceive You. It is a pleasant (albeit slightly dull) exchange about a topic of great interest to me โ how words are consciously used to manipulate, distort reality and corrupt understanding. Excluding the more general Thucydides references, I counted 16 specific examples of doublespeak expressions being mentioned, either by Lutz himself or by C-SPAN host, Brian Lamb. State: (i) one specific example of a doublespeak expression cited by Lutz or Lamb; (ii) the approximate time into the video when it's brought up; and (iii) what that doublespeak expression actually refers or referred to, using clear language instead. ________________ The first five eligible members* to give a correct answer will qualify for Stage 2 of the competition. NB: Responses may not be the same as any already provided by faster participants. If somebody offers an answer that was previously given by another person, they'll be disqualified. The onus is therefore on members to refresh this thread and check the latest posts before posting themselves. [If there happens to be a case of duplicate answers due to cross-posting within a brief time period of, say, 10 seconds, I'll exercise reasonable discretion and allow the second poster to try again with a different answer.]This Stage 1 of the competition will remain open for 72 hours one week, or until successful completion by five eligible members, whichever is sooner. The leisurely task for Stage 2 will be announced at around 20:00 UK time on Sunday 21 February Thursday 25 February (or possibly earlier, if five participants qualify before then). EDIT: Extension of time period for answering the qualifying-round question. Cut-off time. A full week seems more than fair, and I need not have been concerned about unmanageable numbers of participants entering the competition. ____________________ This Stage 2 shall be exclusive to kjg, astarti and viz. It relates again to the notion of doublespeak, covered in the two videos in Part B. STAGE 2 TASKAt the start of his 1989 C-SPAN interview, William Lutz confirms what doublespeak is: Doublespeak is language designed to evade responsibility, make the unpleasant appear pleasant, the unattractive appear attractive. Basically, it's language that pretends to communicate, but really doesn't. It is language designed to mislead, while pretending not to.And when host Brian Lamb asks him whether it's done consciously, Lutz explains: Oh, yes! Very consciously. Doublespeak is not a slip of the tongue or a mistaken use of language, it's exactly the opposite. It is language used by people who are very intelligent and very sophisticated in the use of language, and know that you can do an awful lot with language.While the above offers a helpful general description, there exists a variety of specific kinds of doublespeak. They include (but aren't necessarily limited to) the four types mentioned in Lutz's book on the subject. __________ kjg, astarti and viz: Define or describe one specific type of doublespeak you feel you most need to be on your guard against when reading or listening to what others are saying. Answers may be a straight cut-and-paste from a Google search result, or phrased in your own words. They might cover a well-recognised category of doublespeak, or something different that still falls within the realm of the concept. They can be a single sentence in length, or a few paragraphs. Your choice entirely. What's important is that your answer be considered, and that you be satisfied with it. If needed, these two web pages (among countless others) can offer guidance or inspiration: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doublespeaken.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doublespeak_AwardThis is meant as a leisurely exercise, and one that could possibly benefit each participant. If you intend to complete the task, please do so within a fortnight, by 20:00 UK time on Thursday 11 March. Good luck.
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met
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,796
๐๐ป 6,762
June 2009
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THE MET LOTTERY, by met on Feb 26, 2021 6:12:30 GMT 1, These are great answers, but I suspect they're not what Met is looking for. Reason 1: At 0.35, the chap in the camouflage jacket has a somewhat distant look in his eye. Those of a certain age will recognise this look well - his mind is elsewhere, worried about the impending devastation that will surely be caused by the millennium bug. He's clearly preoccupied, wondering whether he should withdraw his life savings as cash, or whether the preparations being carried out by IT departments worldwide will be effective against the imminent danger. He may be an excellent actor, but he's only human. Of course, had this video been filmed from the year 2000 onwards, this worry would not be present. In fact he (and the rest of the actors in the video) would be beaming huge smiles of relief and endlessly and subconsciously punching the air in celebration, just as we all were for the first 3 or 4 years of the decade. Reason 2: At 1.18, the three characters begin descending a staircase. As Met mentioned, this would have been a tricky one for those outside the UK to have spotted, but those of us here will know of course that stairs in all forms were banned here in 1998 as part of Blair's "things can only get better" manifesto promise. So the use of stairs in this video dates the video horribly. Reason 3: This was a tricky one, and I had to check some dates on Wikipedia. The chap collecting trash from the train at 5.08 is clearly Queen Elizabeth II's youngest son, Price Edward. Royalists among us will know full well that His Royal Highness married the lovely Sophie in the summer of 1999. Under pressure from his new bride who unhappy at the nature of his shiftwork, Edward left his job at London Transport. To the best of my knowledge (sources needed), he's been at Argos in Guildford ever since - in fact, according to Reddit he's recently been promoted to warehouse manager.
stikfan โ Some comments on your answers:
Question 2
1. My recollection of the period is consistent with yours: A general atmosphere of angst, with the sky being all purple and that sort of thing. People were running everywhere, trying to run from the destruction. It genuinely felt like judgement day was upon us. So I tried my best to sound the alarm.
A few colleagues did accuse me of scaremongering back then. But from my perspective, they needed to be shaken out of apathy. For their own sake, I hoped they would eventually heed my warnings. And to emphasise the point about imminent apocalypse, what I always used to say was, "Two thousand zero zero, party over. Oops, out of time."
2. Many thanks. Hadn't even considered this one. A bit later, I should quickly verify the accuracy of your 1998 year reference.
Never paid much attention to Tony Blair's manifesto promises. The focus for me was more on waving my arms like the singer of D:Ream whenever Things Can Only Get Better came on*. Personal research since Tuesday sadly hasn't advanced beyond practising those moves again in my kitchen. I'm also disappointed about having forgotten that Hieronymus Bosch and Cecilia Chancellor featured in the official music video*.
For now, your general point about that UK ban is a good one. The journey took longer than expected, but we finally reached utopia โ ridding our society of oppressive hierarchical structures like stairs, and thereby levelling the field for everyone.
3. Excellent, and well spotted.
To my shame, I failed to recognise Prince Edward, Earl of Wessex in the video โ despite having watched it many, many times. Let's put that down to my republican leanings and the fact I have relatively little interest in the monarchy (besides Elizabeth II, whom I've curiously grown quite fond of in recent years).
It would be interesting to find out whether Edward got any overtime for his cameo appearance in Be There. Or he might simply have volunteered, for CV points. There was probably a tray of complimentary sandwiches on the film set as well.
Regarding Sophie, Countess of Wessex, we seem to have polar-opposite views. Wouldn't call her "lovely" myself. Perhaps I'm overly fixated on the fake sheikh revelations from the "Sophie tapes" โ recorded while she was still at her PR firm, RJH Public Relations.
Did you read the transcripts, by any chance?
Press attention understandably focused on Sophie's damaging indiscretions about the Royal Family and senior politicians. Less widely reported in the fallout was her husband getting fired from his job. [In other words, Sophie's loose lips sunk Edward's ship. His previous career with the Royal Marines must have been an omen.]
The drama occurred in the early part of 2001. By this point, Edward had left his position as a waste management engineer at London Transport (shortly before the creation of its successor, Transport for London). He had already moved on to the service industry, working at a PizzaExpress in Woking, Surrey.
In his role as cameriere, Edward was privy to sensitive and highly confidential information โ including the precise dates the restaurant would release its '2 for 1 on Mains' special offers. These allowed customers to have two main courses for the price of just one main course.
[As you can imagine, the deals were exceptionally popular, including with other Royals. While I don't want to be crass by spelling out the savings that could be made, suffice to say they were significant. Bear in mind as well that PizzaExpress pizzas were noticeably larger at the time: In 2001, the company's pizza diameters were standardised at 56 cm (28 cm radius) โ compared to today's diameter of 14.5 cm (7.25 cm radius).
Edward's second-eldest niece once tried to take advantage of such an offer during a birthday party she attended at the venue. Her friend was paying full price, and Princess Beatrice of York wanted her own pizza free of charge. This was on a Saturday, however. To his credit, and despite the social awkwardness, Edward's integrity came to the fore. He made it perfectly clear to Beatrice that the special offers were only valid from Sunday to Thursday.]
Coming back to Sophie, what she strongly hinted to the undercover Mazher Mahmood in 2001 is that clients of RJH Public Relations received advance notice on the release dates of the '2 for 1 on Mains' deals at PizzaExpress in Woking.
Merely alluding to the possibility of illicit inducements was a vulgar attempt by Sophie to drum up new business. And this was all caught on tape. When the transcripts were eventually released, PizzaExpress felt it had no option but to immediately terminate her husband's employment on the grounds of gross misconduct.
Edward could have sued for wrongful dismissal. And he probably would have won, since there was never any evidence of misconduct by him. But he obviously wasn't keen on the spotlight that accompanies high-profile court cases.
In any event, it was around this time (circa April 2001) that Edward secured a new position at Argos in Guildford. He was able to do so with the help of a letter of recommendation by Sarah, Duchess of York.
Sarah is often mocked, but her magnanimity on this occasion really impressed me. Despite not having been invited to the wedding of Edward and Sophie in the summer of 1999, she clearly retained no grudge about this very public snub. Good on her, I say.
These are great answers, but I suspect they're not what Met is looking for. Reason 1: At 0.35, the chap in the camouflage jacket has a somewhat distant look in his eye. Those of a certain age will recognise this look well - his mind is elsewhere, worried about the impending devastation that will surely be caused by the millennium bug. He's clearly preoccupied, wondering whether he should withdraw his life savings as cash, or whether the preparations being carried out by IT departments worldwide will be effective against the imminent danger. He may be an excellent actor, but he's only human. Of course, had this video been filmed from the year 2000 onwards, this worry would not be present. In fact he (and the rest of the actors in the video) would be beaming huge smiles of relief and endlessly and subconsciously punching the air in celebration, just as we all were for the first 3 or 4 years of the decade. Reason 2: At 1.18, the three characters begin descending a staircase. As Met mentioned, this would have been a tricky one for those outside the UK to have spotted, but those of us here will know of course that stairs in all forms were banned here in 1998 as part of Blair's "things can only get better" manifesto promise. So the use of stairs in this video dates the video horribly. Reason 3: This was a tricky one, and I had to check some dates on Wikipedia. The chap collecting trash from the train at 5.08 is clearly Queen Elizabeth II's youngest son, Price Edward. Royalists among us will know full well that His Royal Highness married the lovely Sophie in the summer of 1999. Under pressure from his new bride who unhappy at the nature of his shiftwork, Edward left his job at London Transport. To the best of my knowledge (sources needed), he's been at Argos in Guildford ever since - in fact, according to Reddit he's recently been promoted to warehouse manager. stikfan โ Some comments on your answers: Question 21. My recollection of the period is consistent with yours: A general atmosphere of angst, with the sky being all purple and that sort of thing. People were running everywhere, trying to run from the destruction. It genuinely felt like judgement day was upon us. So I tried my best to sound the alarm. A few colleagues did accuse me of scaremongering back then. But from my perspective, they needed to be shaken out of apathy. For their own sake, I hoped they would eventually heed my warnings. And to emphasise the point about imminent apocalypse, what I always used to say was, "Two thousand zero zero, party over. Oops, out of time."2. Many thanks. Hadn't even considered this one. A bit later, I should quickly verify the accuracy of your 1998 year reference. Never paid much attention to Tony Blair's manifesto promises. The focus for me was more on waving my arms like the singer of D:Ream whenever Things Can Only Get Better came on *. Personal research since Tuesday sadly hasn't advanced beyond practising those moves again in my kitchen. I'm also disappointed about having forgotten that Hieronymus Bosch and Cecilia Chancellor featured in the official music video *. For now, your general point about that UK ban is a good one. The journey took longer than expected, but we finally reached utopia โ ridding our society of oppressive hierarchical structures like stairs, and thereby levelling the field for everyone. 3. Excellent, and well spotted. To my shame, I failed to recognise Prince Edward, Earl of Wessex in the video โ despite having watched it many, many times. Let's put that down to my republican leanings and the fact I have relatively little interest in the monarchy (besides Elizabeth II, whom I've curiously grown quite fond of in recent years). It would be interesting to find out whether Edward got any overtime for his cameo appearance in Be There. Or he might simply have volunteered, for CV points. There was probably a tray of complimentary sandwiches on the film set as well. Regarding Sophie, Countess of Wessex, we seem to have polar-opposite views. Wouldn't call her "lovely" myself. Perhaps I'm overly fixated on the fake sheikh revelations from the "Sophie tapes" โ recorded while she was still at her PR firm, RJH Public Relations. Did you read the transcripts, by any chance? Press attention understandably focused on Sophie's damaging indiscretions about the Royal Family and senior politicians. Less widely reported in the fallout was her husband getting fired from his job. [In other words, Sophie's loose lips sunk Edward's ship. His previous career with the Royal Marines must have been an omen.]The drama occurred in the early part of 2001. By this point, Edward had left his position as a waste management engineer at London Transport (shortly before the creation of its successor, Transport for London). He had already moved on to the service industry, working at a PizzaExpress in Woking, Surrey. In his role as cameriere, Edward was privy to sensitive and highly confidential information โ including the precise dates the restaurant would release its '2 for 1 on Mains' special offers. These allowed customers to have two main courses for the price of just one main course. [As you can imagine, the deals were exceptionally popular, including with other Royals. While I don't want to be crass by spelling out the savings that could be made, suffice to say they were significant. Bear in mind as well that PizzaExpress pizzas were noticeably larger at the time: In 2001, the company's pizza diameters were standardised at 56 cm (28 cm radius) โ compared to today's diameter of 14.5 cm (7.25 cm radius).
Edward's second-eldest niece once tried to take advantage of such an offer during a birthday party she attended at the venue. Her friend was paying full price, and Princess Beatrice of York wanted her own pizza free of charge. This was on a Saturday, however. To his credit, and despite the social awkwardness, Edward's integrity came to the fore. He made it perfectly clear to Beatrice that the special offers were only valid from Sunday to Thursday.]Coming back to Sophie, what she strongly hinted to the undercover Mazher Mahmood in 2001 is that clients of RJH Public Relations received advance notice on the release dates of the '2 for 1 on Mains' deals at PizzaExpress in Woking. Merely alluding to the possibility of illicit inducements was a vulgar attempt by Sophie to drum up new business. And this was all caught on tape. When the transcripts were eventually released, PizzaExpress felt it had no option but to immediately terminate her husband's employment on the grounds of gross misconduct. Edward could have sued for wrongful dismissal. And he probably would have won, since there was never any evidence of misconduct by him. But he obviously wasn't keen on the spotlight that accompanies high-profile court cases. In any event, it was around this time (circa April 2001) that Edward secured a new position at Argos in Guildford. He was able to do so with the help of a letter of recommendation by Sarah, Duchess of York. Sarah is often mocked, but her magnanimity on this occasion really impressed me. Despite not having been invited to the wedding of Edward and Sophie in the summer of 1999, she clearly retained no grudge about this very public snub. Good on her, I say.
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met
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,796
๐๐ป 6,762
June 2009
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THE MET LOTTERY, by met on Feb 28, 2021 22:37:28 GMT 1, Apologies about the delay with these reference answers for Monday's competition, won by dedlok. I've tried to group most of the information into a single standalone post.
____________________
C.
UNKLE (featuring Ian Brown) - Be There (1999) - uploaded by UNKLEofficial
____________________
REFERENCE ANSWERS
If there's anyone who took an interest in the images posted just above the music video, these are by the late great Corinne Day*. Her photography was pivotal in helping to define a fresh, raw aesthetic during the 1990s โ a style generally viewed as a riposte to the polished glamour of the 1980s.
[From this perspective, it's also worth checking out the work of Juergen Teller (past and current) and David Sims (past).]
__________
1. Find the visual reference to a entirely separate band in the Be There video. Then post a video of a song by that other band.
The visual reference to a separate band was the Cramps t-shirt worn by the actress, Emma Griffiths Malin.
The Cramps - What's Inside A Girl? (live at Eden Jaaphal, Amsterdam on 9 March 1990; Stay Sick! tour with Candy del Mar on bass) - uploaded by CasaAzul65
2. Be There was released last century. And it's possible to work out that timeline from the contents of the video itself.
[...]
Find and describe three clear, persuasive pieces of evidence pointing to the fact that filming for Be There didn't take place later than 2000.
2.1 Fares-increase sign (around 0:24)
See 'New fares from 3 January 1999', behind James Lavelle and just above his head as he enters the lift โ clear evidence that the video was not filmed later than 2000.
These information notices of train fares increasing in price in the new year typically go up in December, and are taken down at some point in January.
2.2 Newspaper sheet blowing in the tunnel (around 4:29)
Main headline: The euro school of thought that is inevitably wrong.
Janet Bush wrote the article, and it was published in The Times newspaper on Tuesday, 5 January 1999.
The date of this newspaper, combined with its reasonably good condition, evidenced that filming took place around the same period โ and, all the more so, not later than 2000.
While the headline alone arguably offered a clue about the date, it wasn't indisputable, given that such an article could easily have been published after 2000. The euro would remain a constant in the news for years.
Nevertheless, a relaxed approach was taken for the competition โ because that article by Bush was tough to find.
Google did assist, with one search hit leading to a separate academic paper dated 31 October 2002*. On the second page in footnote 5, Bush's article is cited, albeit with a misquoted title. Importantly, the relevant newspaper and date are identified, allowing for an eventually-successful search on archive.org*:
Not sure whether the effort was actually worth it, but I did feel satisfaction after finally tracking down the newspaper's date.
2.3 "0171" London telephone number on actress's hand (around 2:09 and 4:19)
The actress in the video has a couple of nightclub stamps on her right hand, along with a handwritten telephone number โ possibly 0171 435 8867. [The last two digits are difficult to read. They may actually have been deliberately illegible, so that people like me wouldn't try calling at three o'clock in the morning. Note as well that the telephone number might have been an improvised addition during filming, since it doesn't look like it's present in the scene from 1:54โ1:58.]
dedlok ably spotted the key part of this number, being its "0171" national dialling code. That format for London was deactivated on 14 October 2000, when it was completely replaced with "020" โ clear evidence that the video was not filmed later than 2000.
Source*
____________________
Side Notes On The Filming Locations
Most of the in-station filming was done in Mornington Crescent, a London Underground station on the Northern Line.
This would include the scene below at 2:15, featuring the hunched man / creature at the front end of the platform (in the direction of travel):
However, compare with the scene at 2:40. It also shows the front end of the platform, as the train is leaving the station:
For purposes of the video storyline, these two shots are meant to be the same location. But in reality, they're obviously not. The train platforms have different designs, and even different widths.
The second shot was likely to have been filmed somewhere on the Circle Line or Hammersmith & City Line.
__________
Consider a flashback scene in the video. Starting at around 4:12, the train is coming into the station. As the carriages whizz by the actress, blowing her hair, we see that the blurred train is silver-grey throughout:
This was probably another Mornington Crescent scene, and the train may have been 1959 Stock* or 1962 Stock* โ older models that still serviced the Northern Line at the time. The one below is an example of 1959 Stock (visually also similar to 1962 Stock):
But now look at the original scene of the train entering the station, starting at around 2:25, and of the actress boarding it. It's a different train altogether, with bright red doors:
This appears to have been filmed on the Circle Line or Hammersmith & City Line. At the time in 1999, the trains servicing these lines were C69 Stock and C77 Stock**. The one below is an example of C77 Stock (visually also similar to C69 Stock):
__________
In the still that follows, the London Underground logo can be seen on the wall through the carriage window. The parallel bar of the logo would typically have the relevant station's name on it โ but in this case it's been blacked out to hide the name:
We also know the in-carriage filming took place in a Circle Line, Hammersmith & City Line, or possibly District Line train (WimbledonโEdgware Road section) โ due to the moquette design of the seats, an issue previously brought up by kjg.
Source*
Corroboration is provided by the car line diagram / map visible behind the actress when the train doors shut before she has a chance to exit. Although out of focus, the design and colours are still recognisable as a car line diagram for a Circle Line, Hammersmith & City Line, or District Line train (WimbledonโEdgware Road section):
____________________
2.4 Car line diagram / map in the train carriage (around 5:13)
The car line diagram is most clearly visible at the end of the video, behind Prince Edward and to the left:
Let's crop and rotate:
Now compare against the relevant car line diagrams below, dated July 1999 (top map) and December 1999 (bottom map):
Sources**
Some points to note regarding the map in Be There:
(i) the name for Sloane Square station, positioned underneath the yellow line;
(ii) Westminster station not yet showing a connection with the Jubilee Line; and
(iii) the distance in the design between the positions of Kensington (Olympia) station and Earl's Court station.
The fact that the map in the music video corresponds to the July 1999 version (as opposed to the December 1999 version, released after the Jubilee Line extension) is clear evidence that filming occurred before December 1999 โ and, all the more so, not later than 2000.
END OF POST.
Apologies about the delay with these reference answers for Monday's competition, won by dedlok. I've tried to group most of the information into a single standalone post. ____________________ C.UNKLE (featuring Ian Brown) - Be There (1999)- uploaded by UNKLEofficial____________________ REFERENCE ANSWERSIf there's anyone who took an interest in the images posted just above the music video, these are by the late great Corinne Day*. Her photography was pivotal in helping to define a fresh, raw aesthetic during the 1990s โ a style generally viewed as a riposte to the polished glamour of the 1980s. [From this perspective, it's also worth checking out the work of Juergen Teller (past and current) and David Sims (past).]__________ 1. Find the visual reference to a entirely separate band in the Be There video. Then post a video of a song by that other band. The visual reference to a separate band was the Cramps t-shirt worn by the actress, Emma Griffiths Malin. The Cramps - What's Inside A Girl? (live at Eden Jaaphal, Amsterdam on 9 March 1990; Stay Sick! tour with Candy del Mar on bass)- uploaded by CasaAzul652. Be There was released last century. And it's possible to work out that timeline from the contents of the video itself.
[...]
Find and describe three clear, persuasive pieces of evidence pointing to the fact that filming for Be There didn't take place later than 2000.2.1 Fares-increase sign (around 0:24)See 'New fares from 3 January 1999', behind James Lavelle and just above his head as he enters the lift โ clear evidence that the video was not filmed later than 2000. These information notices of train fares increasing in price in the new year typically go up in December, and are taken down at some point in January. 2.2 Newspaper sheet blowing in the tunnel (around 4:29)Main headline: The euro school of thought that is inevitably wrong. Janet Bush wrote the article, and it was published in The Times newspaper on Tuesday, 5 January 1999. The date of this newspaper, combined with its reasonably good condition, evidenced that filming took place around the same period โ and, all the more so, not later than 2000. While the headline alone arguably offered a clue about the date, it wasn't indisputable, given that such an article could easily have been published after 2000. The euro would remain a constant in the news for years. Nevertheless, a relaxed approach was taken for the competition โ because that article by Bush was tough to find. Google did assist, with one search hit leading to a separate academic paper dated 31 October 2002 *. On the second page in footnote 5, Bush's article is cited, albeit with a misquoted title. Importantly, the relevant newspaper and date are identified, allowing for an eventually-successful search on archive.org*: Not sure whether the effort was actually worth it, but I did feel satisfaction after finally tracking down the newspaper's date. 2.3 "0171" London telephone number on actress's hand (around 2:09 and 4:19)The actress in the video has a couple of nightclub stamps on her right hand, along with a handwritten telephone number โ possibly 0171 435 8867. [The last two digits are difficult to read. They may actually have been deliberately illegible, so that people like me wouldn't try calling at three o'clock in the morning. Note as well that the telephone number might have been an improvised addition during filming, since it doesn't look like it's present in the scene from 1:54โ1:58.] dedlok ably spotted the key part of this number, being its "0171" national dialling code. That format for London was deactivated on 14 October 2000, when it was completely replaced with "020" โ clear evidence that the video was not filmed later than 2000. Source *____________________Side Notes On The Filming LocationsMost of the in-station filming was done in Mornington Crescent, a London Underground station on the Northern Line. This would include the scene below at 2:15, featuring the hunched man / creature at the front end of the platform (in the direction of travel): However, compare with the scene at 2:40. It also shows the front end of the platform, as the train is leaving the station: For purposes of the video storyline, these two shots are meant to be the same location. But in reality, they're obviously not. The train platforms have different designs, and even different widths. The second shot was likely to have been filmed somewhere on the Circle Line or Hammersmith & City Line. __________ Consider a flashback scene in the video. Starting at around 4:12, the train is coming into the station. As the carriages whizz by the actress, blowing her hair, we see that the blurred train is silver-grey throughout: This was probably another Mornington Crescent scene, and the train may have been 1959 Stock* or 1962 Stock* โ older models that still serviced the Northern Line at the time. The one below is an example of 1959 Stock (visually also similar to 1962 Stock): But now look at the original scene of the train entering the station, starting at around 2:25, and of the actress boarding it. It's a different train altogether, with bright red doors: This appears to have been filmed on the Circle Line or Hammersmith & City Line. At the time in 1999, the trains servicing these lines were C69 Stock and C77 Stock**. The one below is an example of C77 Stock (visually also similar to C69 Stock): __________ In the still that follows, the London Underground logo can be seen on the wall through the carriage window. The parallel bar of the logo would typically have the relevant station's name on it โ but in this case it's been blacked out to hide the name: We also know the in-carriage filming took place in a Circle Line, Hammersmith & City Line, or possibly District Line train (WimbledonโEdgware Road section) โ due to the moquette design of the seats, an issue previously brought up by kjg. Source *Corroboration is provided by the car line diagram / map visible behind the actress when the train doors shut before she has a chance to exit. Although out of focus, the design and colours are still recognisable as a car line diagram for a Circle Line, Hammersmith & City Line, or District Line train (WimbledonโEdgware Road section): ____________________2.4 Car line diagram / map in the train carriage (around 5:13) The car line diagram is most clearly visible at the end of the video, behind Prince Edward and to the left: Let's crop and rotate: Now compare against the relevant car line diagrams below, dated July 1999 (top map) and December 1999 (bottom map): Sources **Some points to note regarding the map in Be There: (i) the name for Sloane Square station, positioned underneath the yellow line; (ii) Westminster station not yet showing a connection with the Jubilee Line; and (iii) the distance in the design between the positions of Kensington (Olympia) station and Earl's Court station. The fact that the map in the music video corresponds to the July 1999 version (as opposed to the December 1999 version, released after the Jubilee Line extension) is clear evidence that filming occurred before December 1999 โ and, all the more so, not later than 2000. END OF POST.
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Dive Jedi
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 6,194
๐๐ป 9,453
October 2015
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THE MET LOTTERY, by Dive Jedi on Feb 28, 2021 22:43:51 GMT 1, LOL ! !
De Eden Jaaphal
Sorry met , that sounds really funny here.
It's the Jaap Edenhal.
Jaap Eden is a legendary ice skater and cyclist. Also our Dutch Sportman of the Year is named after him.
(Since you love details )
LOL ! ! De Eden Jaaphal Sorry met , that sounds really funny here. It's the Jaap Edenhal. Jaap Eden is a legendary ice skater and cyclist. Also our Dutch Sportman of the Year is named after him. (Since you love details )
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