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Brexit
Mar 27, 2019 20:50:35 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by Happy Shopper on Mar 27, 2019 20:50:35 GMT 1, Now BoJo is ready to support May’s deal in exchange of her resigning and giving him a shot at the premiership. Everything can be done for pure self interest apparently... I thought he had already reached the bottom, but I definitively “misunderestimated” him and his ilk.
He only chose Brexit because he thought if it won it would give him a shot at PM... slowly coming true.
Now BoJo is ready to support May’s deal in exchange of her resigning and giving him a shot at the premiership. Everything can be done for pure self interest apparently... I thought he had already reached the bottom, but I definitively “misunderestimated” him and his ilk. He only chose Brexit because he thought if it won it would give him a shot at PM... slowly coming true. |
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Chris JL
Junior Member
🗨️ 1,766
👍🏻 1,852
March 2017
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Brexit, by Chris JL on Mar 27, 2019 20:50:59 GMT 1, For me the argument is no longer about the reasons for Brexit. That has been settled by the vote. It is the reversal from the vote that is worrying. Undemocratic, while some remainers now relish this, I hope they look into the far term, politicians may go against them too in the future on a different vote. A very bad precedent this is setting.
I’d recommend some basic readings to avoid making a fool of yourself.
At your place I’d start... from the dictionary. Hint: the term comes from “δῆμος” (“common people") “κρατία” (“rule”). Not form “some f@*ked up once and now we all have to stick with it.” That would be stupid ain’t it? And, literally, undemocratic, since the majority of the country is now clearly (according to virtually every respected pool) against this idiocy that was based on electoral fraud (that’s a fact) and a campaign of plain lies (another fact).
For me the argument is no longer about the reasons for Brexit. That has been settled by the vote. It is the reversal from the vote that is worrying. Undemocratic, while some remainers now relish this, I hope they look into the far term, politicians may go against them too in the future on a different vote. A very bad precedent this is setting. I’d recommend some basic readings to avoid making a fool of yourself. At your place I’d start... from the dictionary. Hint: the term comes from “δῆμος” (“common people") “κρατία” (“rule”). Not form “some f@*ked up once and now we all have to stick with it.” That would be stupid ain’t it? And, literally, undemocratic, since the majority of the country is now clearly (according to virtually every respected pool) against this idiocy that was based on electoral fraud (that’s a fact) and a campaign of plain lies (another fact). |
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Chris JL
Junior Member
🗨️ 1,766
👍🏻 1,852
March 2017
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Brexit, by Chris JL on Mar 27, 2019 20:51:56 GMT 1, IT IS NOT UNDEMOCRATIC TO HAVE A SECOND VOTE. Stop trying to subvert the meanings of words!! Its f**kingannoying. Yes it is.
Guys really, educate yourself. This is embarrassing.
IT IS NOT UNDEMOCRATIC TO HAVE A SECOND VOTE. Stop trying to subvert the meanings of words!! Its f**kingannoying. Yes it is. Guys really, educate yourself. This is embarrassing. |
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Chris JL
Junior Member
🗨️ 1,766
👍🏻 1,852
March 2017
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Brexit, by Chris JL on Mar 27, 2019 20:56:36 GMT 1, Now BoJo is ready to support May’s deal in exchange of her resigning and giving him a shot at the premiership. Everything can be done for pure self interest apparently... I thought he had already reached the bottom, but I definitively “misunderestimated” him and his ilk. He only chose Brexit because he thought if it won it would give him a shot at PM... slowly coming true.
Take this with a grain of salt, but from insiders the version I have is that he was actually hoping for a strong result for “leave” but a “remain” win. That would have both propelled him toward the premierships and avoided the country shooting itself in the foot. Also his first editorial right after the vote somehow seemed to hint to this.
Now BoJo is ready to support May’s deal in exchange of her resigning and giving him a shot at the premiership. Everything can be done for pure self interest apparently... I thought he had already reached the bottom, but I definitively “misunderestimated” him and his ilk. He only chose Brexit because he thought if it won it would give him a shot at PM... slowly coming true. Take this with a grain of salt, but from insiders the version I have is that he was actually hoping for a strong result for “leave” but a “remain” win. That would have both propelled him toward the premierships and avoided the country shooting itself in the foot. Also his first editorial right after the vote somehow seemed to hint to this. |
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energy
New Member
🗨️ 333
👍🏻 139
May 2016
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Brexit
Mar 27, 2019 21:02:13 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by energy on Mar 27, 2019 21:02:13 GMT 1, Guys really, educate yourself. This is embarrassing.
Soz
Guys really, educate yourself. This is embarrassing. Soz |
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rebate
Junior Member
🗨️ 1,050
👍🏻 961
January 2018
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Brexit
Mar 27, 2019 21:08:03 GMT 1
Brexit, by rebate on Mar 27, 2019 21:08:03 GMT 1, You have to followthrough with the outcome of the first vote. Democracy doesn’t include a do over concept
Or 3 meaningful votes on the same deal?
You have to followthrough with the outcome of the first vote. Democracy doesn’t include a do over concept What, like elections for instance? Or 3 meaningful votes on the same deal? |
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energy
New Member
🗨️ 333
👍🏻 139
May 2016
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Brexit
Mar 27, 2019 21:10:34 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by energy on Mar 27, 2019 21:10:34 GMT 1, For me the argument is no longer about the reasons for Brexit. That has been settled by the vote. It is the reversal from the vote that is worrying. Undemocratic, while some remainers now relish this, I hope they look into the far term, politicians may go against them too in the future on a different vote. A very bad precedent this is setting. I’d recommend some basic readings to avoid making a fool of yourself. At your place I’d start... from the dictionary. Hint: the term comes from from “δῆμος” (“common people") “κρατία” (“rule”). Not form “some f@*ked up once and now we all have to stick with it.” That would be stupid ain’t it? And, literally, undemocratic, since the majority of the country is now clearly (according to virtually every respected pool) against this idiocy that was based on electoral fraud (that’s a fact) and a campaign of plain lies (another fact).
If you type ‘fact’ after making a statement that means it’s true (that’s a fact)
For example
δῆμος & κρατία are not in my dictionary (another fact)
For me the argument is no longer about the reasons for Brexit. That has been settled by the vote. It is the reversal from the vote that is worrying. Undemocratic, while some remainers now relish this, I hope they look into the far term, politicians may go against them too in the future on a different vote. A very bad precedent this is setting. I’d recommend some basic readings to avoid making a fool of yourself. At your place I’d start... from the dictionary. Hint: the term comes from from “δῆμος” (“common people") “κρατία” (“rule”). Not form “some f@*ked up once and now we all have to stick with it.” That would be stupid ain’t it? And, literally, undemocratic, since the majority of the country is now clearly (according to virtually every respected pool) against this idiocy that was based on electoral fraud (that’s a fact) and a campaign of plain lies (another fact). If you type ‘fact’ after making a statement that means it’s true (that’s a fact) For example δῆμος & κρατία are not in my dictionary (another fact) |
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Brexit
Mar 27, 2019 21:10:41 GMT 1
via mobile
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Brexit
Mar 27, 2019 21:20:07 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by Coach on Mar 27, 2019 21:20:07 GMT 1, Labour are whipping for second ref.
Labour are whipping for second ref.
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dogstar
New Member
🗨️ 665
👍🏻 811
October 2017
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Brexit
Mar 27, 2019 21:24:14 GMT 1
Brexit, by dogstar on Mar 27, 2019 21:24:14 GMT 1, You have to followthrough with the outcome of the first vote. Democracy doesn’t include a do over concept 
You have to followthrough with the outcome of the first vote. Democracy doesn’t include a do over concept |
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Leo Boyd
Artist
Junior Member
🗨️ 1,476
👍🏻 2,090
June 2016
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Brexit
Mar 27, 2019 21:25:05 GMT 1
Brexit, by Leo Boyd on Mar 27, 2019 21:25:05 GMT 1, Oh no it isn't!
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Brexit
Mar 27, 2019 21:27:55 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by Coach on Mar 27, 2019 21:27:55 GMT 1, You have to followthrough with the outcome of the first vote. Democracy doesn’t include a do over concept
Even if it no longer reflects the “will of the people”?
What if the polls said that 75% now want to remain? Press on regardless?
It still seems to me that having a confirmatory vote, once the true options are known, is completely democratic, especially as the original vote was nearly 3 years ago.
You have to followthrough with the outcome of the first vote. Democracy doesn’t include a do over concept Even if it no longer reflects the “will of the people”? What if the polls said that 75% now want to remain? Press on regardless? It still seems to me that having a confirmatory vote, once the true options are known, is completely democratic, especially as the original vote was nearly 3 years ago. |
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Brexit
Mar 27, 2019 21:28:35 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by Coach on Mar 27, 2019 21:28:35 GMT 1,
He’s behind you!
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nex
Junior Member
🗨️ 2,573
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February 2009
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Brexit
Mar 27, 2019 21:38:00 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by nex on Mar 27, 2019 21:38:00 GMT 1, You have to followthrough with the outcome of the first vote. Democracy doesn’t include a do over concept Even if it no longer reflects the “will of the people”? What if the polls said that 75% now want to remain? Press on regardless? It still seems to me that having a confirmatory vote, once the true options are known, is completely democratic, especially as the original vote was nearly 3 years ago.
The referendum was also not legally binding, has been been proved to be corrupt, further evidence shows what a terrible idea it is and democracy isn’t about one course of action - that’s a dictatorship innit.
You have to followthrough with the outcome of the first vote. Democracy doesn’t include a do over concept Even if it no longer reflects the “will of the people”? What if the polls said that 75% now want to remain? Press on regardless? It still seems to me that having a confirmatory vote, once the true options are known, is completely democratic, especially as the original vote was nearly 3 years ago. The referendum was also not legally binding, has been been proved to be corrupt, further evidence shows what a terrible idea it is and democracy isn’t about one course of action - that’s a dictatorship innit. |
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Chris JL
Junior Member
🗨️ 1,766
👍🏻 1,852
March 2017
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Brexit, by Chris JL on Mar 27, 2019 21:56:07 GMT 1, You have to followthrough with the outcome of the first vote. Democracy doesn’t include a do over concept
🤦♂️ your education clearly does not include a do over concept.
You have to followthrough with the outcome of the first vote. Democracy doesn’t include a do over concept 🤦♂️ your education clearly does not include a do over concept. |
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moron
Junior Member
🗨️ 2,711
👍🏻 1,051
September 2017
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Brexit
Mar 27, 2019 22:00:03 GMT 1
Brexit, by moron on Mar 27, 2019 22:00:03 GMT 1, France voted no in 2005 and the result was ignored. It's part of why the Gilets Jaune are protesting today.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_French_European_Constitution_referendum
"The French referendum on the Treaty establishing a Constitution for Europe was held on 29 May 2005 to decide whether France should ratify the proposed Constitution of the European Union. The result was a victory for the "No" campaign, with 55% of voters rejecting the treaty on a turnout of 69%."
Ireland had a referendum and the result was also not the right result so Ireland had another referendum.
In 2008, Ireland threw the EU into chaos when it became the only country to hold a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty – and voters rejected it by a majority of 53 per cent. In order for the treaty to become law, it had to be ratified by all member states.
Amid concern that attempts to streamline and formalise the workings of the EU were being held up by one relatively small member state, Irish and EU politicians urged people to think again. A new referendum was held in 2009 and this time 67 per cent of voters backed the treaty
"From Ireland to Greece, countries have decided to completely ignore the ‘will of the people’, asked them to think again or think about something only slightly different"
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-referendum-ignore-lisbon-treaty-nice-treaty-ireland-greece-france-netherlands-a7105261.html
France voted no in 2005 and the result was ignored. It's part of why the Gilets Jaune are protesting today. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_French_European_Constitution_referendum "The French referendum on the Treaty establishing a Constitution for Europe was held on 29 May 2005 to decide whether France should ratify the proposed Constitution of the European Union. The result was a victory for the "No" campaign, with 55% of voters rejecting the treaty on a turnout of 69%." Ireland had a referendum and the result was also not the right result so Ireland had another referendum.
In 2008, Ireland threw the EU into chaos when it became the only country to hold a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty – and voters rejected it by a majority of 53 per cent. In order for the treaty to become law, it had to be ratified by all member states.
Amid concern that attempts to streamline and formalise the workings of the EU were being held up by one relatively small member state, Irish and EU politicians urged people to think again. A new referendum was held in 2009 and this time 67 per cent of voters backed the treaty"From Ireland to Greece, countries have decided to completely ignore the ‘will of the people’, asked them to think again or think about something only slightly different" www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-referendum-ignore-lisbon-treaty-nice-treaty-ireland-greece-france-netherlands-a7105261.html |
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mojo
Junior Member
🗨️ 2,191
👍🏻 3,722
May 2014
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Brexit
Mar 27, 2019 22:18:03 GMT 1
Brexit, by mojo on Mar 27, 2019 22:18:03 GMT 1, Boris Johnson! Quel surprise Cameron's whipping boy at Eton! Thank f**kI've got two passports cause there is absolutely no way I will ever admit to being British again since this bunch of narcissistic psychopaths have got their way. It goes from total disaster to absolute mind numbing utter nonsense. The way Nigel Farage spoke to Donald Tusk today was just plain rude let alone stupid comparing leaving the EU to World War 2 is beyond pathetic. What a total embarrassment. I was on the march Saturday although I don't want a 2nd vote as the result wasn't even legally binding just Cameron's word which frankly means jacks**t to anyone anyway or shouldn't.
Boris Johnson! Quel surprise Cameron's whipping boy at Eton! Thank f**kI've got two passports cause there is absolutely no way I will ever admit to being British again since this bunch of narcissistic psychopaths have got their way. It goes from total disaster to absolute mind numbing utter nonsense. The way Nigel Farage spoke to Donald Tusk today was just plain rude let alone stupid comparing leaving the EU to World War 2 is beyond pathetic. What a total embarrassment. I was on the march Saturday although I don't want a 2nd vote as the result wasn't even legally binding just Cameron's word which frankly means jacks**t to anyone anyway or shouldn't. |
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Brexit
Mar 27, 2019 22:33:01 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by Daylight Robber on Mar 27, 2019 22:33:01 GMT 1, France voted no in 2005 and the result was ignored. It's part of why the Gilets Jaune are protesting today. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_French_European_Constitution_referendum "The French referendum on the Treaty establishing a Constitution for Europe was held on 29 May 2005 to decide whether France should ratify the proposed Constitution of the European Union. The result was a victory for the "No" campaign, with 55% of voters rejecting the treaty on a turnout of 69%." Ireland had a referendum and the result was also not the right result so Ireland had another referendum.
In 2008, Ireland threw the EU into chaos when it became the only country to hold a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty – and voters rejected it by a majority of 53 per cent. In order for the treaty to become law, it had to be ratified by all member states.
Amid concern that attempts to streamline and formalise the workings of the EU were being held up by one relatively small member state, Irish and EU politicians urged people to think again. A new referendum was held in 2009 and this time 67 per cent of voters backed the treaty"From Ireland to Greece, countries have decided to completely ignore the ‘will of the people’, asked them to think again or think about something only slightly different" www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-referendum-ignore-lisbon-treaty-nice-treaty-ireland-greece-france-netherlands-a7105261.html
If I remember rightly, the French No vote was massively split, with some voters wanting nothing to do with Europe or the Constitution and others simply hoping for a 'better treaty'. Again, the referendum did very little to establish "the Will of the People" and simply contributed to division.
During the following Presidential campaign, carried out during the fallout from the vote, Sarkozy explicitly campaigned on the promise that he would renegotiate but wouldn't hold another referendum. He was voted in.
France voted no in 2005 and the result was ignored. It's part of why the Gilets Jaune are protesting today. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_French_European_Constitution_referendum "The French referendum on the Treaty establishing a Constitution for Europe was held on 29 May 2005 to decide whether France should ratify the proposed Constitution of the European Union. The result was a victory for the "No" campaign, with 55% of voters rejecting the treaty on a turnout of 69%." Ireland had a referendum and the result was also not the right result so Ireland had another referendum.
In 2008, Ireland threw the EU into chaos when it became the only country to hold a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty – and voters rejected it by a majority of 53 per cent. In order for the treaty to become law, it had to be ratified by all member states.
Amid concern that attempts to streamline and formalise the workings of the EU were being held up by one relatively small member state, Irish and EU politicians urged people to think again. A new referendum was held in 2009 and this time 67 per cent of voters backed the treaty"From Ireland to Greece, countries have decided to completely ignore the ‘will of the people’, asked them to think again or think about something only slightly different" www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-referendum-ignore-lisbon-treaty-nice-treaty-ireland-greece-france-netherlands-a7105261.html If I remember rightly, the French No vote was massively split, with some voters wanting nothing to do with Europe or the Constitution and others simply hoping for a 'better treaty'. Again, the referendum did very little to establish "the Will of the People" and simply contributed to division. During the following Presidential campaign, carried out during the fallout from the vote, Sarkozy explicitly campaigned on the promise that he would renegotiate but wouldn't hold another referendum. He was voted in. |
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love
Junior Member
🗨️ 1,649
👍🏻 391
October 2009
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Brexit
Mar 27, 2019 22:35:56 GMT 1
Brexit, by love on Mar 27, 2019 22:35:56 GMT 1, I had a brilliant idea today. UK stays in the EU and 27 other countries leave and establish a new Union. I‘m 100% sure that this would be an easier solution.
I had a brilliant idea today. UK stays in the EU and 27 other countries leave and establish a new Union. I‘m 100% sure that this would be an easier solution.
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Masong
Junior Member
🗨️ 2,223
👍🏻 2,887
March 2017
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Brexit
Mar 27, 2019 22:38:42 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by Masong on Mar 27, 2019 22:38:42 GMT 1, Boris Johnson! Quel surprise Cameron's whipping boy at Eton! Thank f**kI've got two passports cause there is absolutely no way I will ever admit to being British again since this bunch of narcissistic psychopaths have got their way. It goes from total disaster to absolute mind numbing utter nonsense. The way Nigel Farage spoke to Donald Tusk today was just plain rude let alone stupid comparing leaving the EU to World War 2 is beyond pathetic. What a total embarrassment. I was on the march Saturday although I don't want a 2nd vote as the result wasn't even legally binding just Cameron's word which frankly means jacks**t to anyone anyway or shouldn't. My signs got a lot of attention. David Cameron & Theresa May morphed into Ian Brady & Myra Hindley and a Billy Childish, Farage What kind of c**tvotes for less freedom. Nuff said rant over ...for now!
If you ever need any advice on where you can stick that British passport that you’re so ashamed of, please feel free to ask 👍🏼
Boris Johnson! Quel surprise Cameron's whipping boy at Eton! Thank f**kI've got two passports cause there is absolutely no way I will ever admit to being British again since this bunch of narcissistic psychopaths have got their way. It goes from total disaster to absolute mind numbing utter nonsense. The way Nigel Farage spoke to Donald Tusk today was just plain rude let alone stupid comparing leaving the EU to World War 2 is beyond pathetic. What a total embarrassment. I was on the march Saturday although I don't want a 2nd vote as the result wasn't even legally binding just Cameron's word which frankly means jacks**t to anyone anyway or shouldn't. My signs got a lot of attention. David Cameron & Theresa May morphed into Ian Brady & Myra Hindley and a Billy Childish, Farage What kind of c**tvotes for less freedom. Nuff said rant over ...for now! If you ever need any advice on where you can stick that British passport that you’re so ashamed of, please feel free to ask 👍🏼 |
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mojo
Junior Member
🗨️ 2,191
👍🏻 3,722
May 2014
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Brexit
Mar 27, 2019 22:40:50 GMT 1
Brexit, by mojo on Mar 27, 2019 22:40:50 GMT 1, Boris Johnson! Quel surprise Cameron's whipping boy at Eton! Thank f**kI've got two passports cause there is absolutely no way I will ever admit to being British again since this bunch of narcissistic psychopaths have got their way. It goes from total disaster to absolute mind numbing utter nonsense. The way Nigel Farage spoke to Donald Tusk today was just plain rude let alone stupid comparing leaving the EU to World War 2 is beyond pathetic. What a total embarrassment. I was on the march Saturday although I don't want a 2nd vote as the result wasn't even legally binding just Cameron's word which frankly means jacks**t to anyone anyway or shouldn't. My signs got a lot of attention. David Cameron & Theresa May morphed into Ian Brady & Myra Hindley and a Billy Childish, Farage What kind of c**tvotes for less freedom. Nuff said rant over ...for now! If you ever need any advice on where you can stick that British passport that you’re so ashamed of, please feel free to ask 👍🏼
Boris Johnson! Quel surprise Cameron's whipping boy at Eton! Thank f**kI've got two passports cause there is absolutely no way I will ever admit to being British again since this bunch of narcissistic psychopaths have got their way. It goes from total disaster to absolute mind numbing utter nonsense. The way Nigel Farage spoke to Donald Tusk today was just plain rude let alone stupid comparing leaving the EU to World War 2 is beyond pathetic. What a total embarrassment. I was on the march Saturday although I don't want a 2nd vote as the result wasn't even legally binding just Cameron's word which frankly means jacks**t to anyone anyway or shouldn't. My signs got a lot of attention. David Cameron & Theresa May morphed into Ian Brady & Myra Hindley and a Billy Childish, Farage What kind of c**tvotes for less freedom. Nuff said rant over ...for now! If you ever need any advice on where you can stick that British passport that you’re so ashamed of, please feel free to ask 👍🏼 In a fire |
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moron
Junior Member
🗨️ 2,711
👍🏻 1,051
September 2017
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Brexit
Mar 27, 2019 22:52:08 GMT 1
Brexit, by moron on Mar 27, 2019 22:52:08 GMT 1, France voted no in 2005 and the result was ignored. It's part of why the Gilets Jaune are protesting today. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_French_European_Constitution_referendum "The French referendum on the Treaty establishing a Constitution for Europe was held on 29 May 2005 to decide whether France should ratify the proposed Constitution of the European Union. The result was a victory for the "No" campaign, with 55% of voters rejecting the treaty on a turnout of 69%." Ireland had a referendum and the result was also not the right result so Ireland had another referendum.
In 2008, Ireland threw the EU into chaos when it became the only country to hold a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty – and voters rejected it by a majority of 53 per cent. In order for the treaty to become law, it had to be ratified by all member states.
Amid concern that attempts to streamline and formalise the workings of the EU were being held up by one relatively small member state, Irish and EU politicians urged people to think again. A new referendum was held in 2009 and this time 67 per cent of voters backed the treaty"From Ireland to Greece, countries have decided to completely ignore the ‘will of the people’, asked them to think again or think about something only slightly different" www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-referendum-ignore-lisbon-treaty-nice-treaty-ireland-greece-france-netherlands-a7105261.html If I remember rightly, the French No vote was massively split, with some voters wanting nothing to do with Europe or the Constitution and others simply hoping for a 'better treaty'. Again, the referendum did very little to establish "the Will of the People" and simply contributed to division. During the following Presidential campaign, carried out during the fallout from the vote, Sarkozy explicitly campaigned on the promise that he would renegotiate but wouldn't hold another referendum. He was voted in.
I have always supported the EU in principal but with closed borders between countries meaning free movement with passport or id card controls.
The EU morphed into a non democratic dictatorship taking away countries sovereignty. The EU cased the ongoing financial crisis.
France voted no in 2005 and the result was ignored. It's part of why the Gilets Jaune are protesting today. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_French_European_Constitution_referendum "The French referendum on the Treaty establishing a Constitution for Europe was held on 29 May 2005 to decide whether France should ratify the proposed Constitution of the European Union. The result was a victory for the "No" campaign, with 55% of voters rejecting the treaty on a turnout of 69%." Ireland had a referendum and the result was also not the right result so Ireland had another referendum.
In 2008, Ireland threw the EU into chaos when it became the only country to hold a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty – and voters rejected it by a majority of 53 per cent. In order for the treaty to become law, it had to be ratified by all member states.
Amid concern that attempts to streamline and formalise the workings of the EU were being held up by one relatively small member state, Irish and EU politicians urged people to think again. A new referendum was held in 2009 and this time 67 per cent of voters backed the treaty"From Ireland to Greece, countries have decided to completely ignore the ‘will of the people’, asked them to think again or think about something only slightly different" www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-referendum-ignore-lisbon-treaty-nice-treaty-ireland-greece-france-netherlands-a7105261.html If I remember rightly, the French No vote was massively split, with some voters wanting nothing to do with Europe or the Constitution and others simply hoping for a 'better treaty'. Again, the referendum did very little to establish "the Will of the People" and simply contributed to division. During the following Presidential campaign, carried out during the fallout from the vote, Sarkozy explicitly campaigned on the promise that he would renegotiate but wouldn't hold another referendum. He was voted in. Politicians ignore the people over and over again. I have always supported the EU in principal but with closed borders between countries meaning free movement with passport or id card controls. The EU morphed into a non democratic dictatorship taking away countries sovereignty. The EU cased the ongoing financial crisis. |
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Chris JL
Junior Member
🗨️ 1,766
👍🏻 1,852
March 2017
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Brexit, by Chris JL on Mar 27, 2019 22:56:00 GMT 1, France voted no in 2005 and the result was ignored. It's part of why the Gilets Jaune are protesting today. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_French_European_Constitution_referendum "The French referendum on the Treaty establishing a Constitution for Europe was held on 29 May 2005 to decide whether France should ratify the proposed Constitution of the European Union. The result was a victory for the "No" campaign, with 55% of voters rejecting the treaty on a turnout of 69%." Ireland had a referendum and the result was also not the right result so Ireland had another referendum.
In 2008, Ireland threw the EU into chaos when it became the only country to hold a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty – and voters rejected it by a majority of 53 per cent. In order for the treaty to become law, it had to be ratified by all member states.
Amid concern that attempts to streamline and formalise the workings of the EU were being held up by one relatively small member state, Irish and EU politicians urged people to think again. A new referendum was held in 2009 and this time 67 per cent of voters backed the treaty"From Ireland to Greece, countries have decided to completely ignore the ‘will of the people’, asked them to think again or think about something only slightly different" www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-referendum-ignore-lisbon-treaty-nice-treaty-ireland-greece-france-netherlands-a7105261.html
That’s the meaning of democracy.
And I’m not saying that any of the above were correct or erroneous choices, or that all the games were always played fairly. But their evolution through the political process, it’s the very meaning of democracy.
Only in totalitarian systems the political decisions/plebiscites/referenda make policy “granitically” immutable (typically until it blows).
By the same sorry logic that you guys have, the suffragettes should have not kept demanding the right for women to vote since their motions were at first defeated in the commons. (I guess you wish they had done so - I remember you posting incel videos... ups)
Similarly, the civil right movement in the US, after a string of sound political defeats in the ballots all over the union, should have accepted the statu quo and followed white rule. (On this too your preferences are known... )
And probably this applies to most real progress ever made through the democratic process.
That’s called democracy, moron.
PS Not sure where it’s going tomorrow or the day after, but I like to hope that “the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice.” ... at least as long as we can save democracy from the anti-democratic demagogues.
France voted no in 2005 and the result was ignored. It's part of why the Gilets Jaune are protesting today. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_French_European_Constitution_referendum "The French referendum on the Treaty establishing a Constitution for Europe was held on 29 May 2005 to decide whether France should ratify the proposed Constitution of the European Union. The result was a victory for the "No" campaign, with 55% of voters rejecting the treaty on a turnout of 69%." Ireland had a referendum and the result was also not the right result so Ireland had another referendum.
In 2008, Ireland threw the EU into chaos when it became the only country to hold a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty – and voters rejected it by a majority of 53 per cent. In order for the treaty to become law, it had to be ratified by all member states.
Amid concern that attempts to streamline and formalise the workings of the EU were being held up by one relatively small member state, Irish and EU politicians urged people to think again. A new referendum was held in 2009 and this time 67 per cent of voters backed the treaty"From Ireland to Greece, countries have decided to completely ignore the ‘will of the people’, asked them to think again or think about something only slightly different" www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-referendum-ignore-lisbon-treaty-nice-treaty-ireland-greece-france-netherlands-a7105261.html That’s the meaning of democracy. And I’m not saying that any of the above were correct or erroneous choices, or that all the games were always played fairly. But their evolution through the political process, it’s the very meaning of democracy. Only in totalitarian systems the political decisions/plebiscites/referenda make policy “granitically” immutable (typically until it blows). By the same sorry logic that you guys have, the suffragettes should have not kept demanding the right for women to vote since their motions were at first defeated in the commons. (I guess you wish they had done so - I remember you posting incel videos... ups) Similarly, the civil right movement in the US, after a string of sound political defeats in the ballots all over the union, should have accepted the statu quo and followed white rule. (On this too your preferences are known... ) And probably this applies to most real progress ever made through the democratic process. That’s called democracy, moron. PS Not sure where it’s going tomorrow or the day after, but I like to hope that “the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice.” ... at least as long as we can save democracy from the anti-democratic demagogues. |
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Chris JL
Junior Member
🗨️ 1,766
👍🏻 1,852
March 2017
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Brexit, by Chris JL on Mar 27, 2019 23:21:19 GMT 1, 
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Brexit
Mar 27, 2019 23:41:09 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by Coach on Mar 27, 2019 23:41:09 GMT 1,
It seems to me that it was a shame that May’s deal wasn’t included in the list today, to compare its current popularity with the others.
But I guess the government wouldn’t propose it?
It seems to me that it was a shame that May’s deal wasn’t included in the list today, to compare its current popularity with the others. But I guess the government wouldn’t propose it? |
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dogstar
New Member
🗨️ 665
👍🏻 811
October 2017
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Brexit
Mar 27, 2019 23:53:32 GMT 1
Brexit, by dogstar on Mar 27, 2019 23:53:32 GMT 1,
Tonight's votes are what should have happened before triggering Article 50. It would have then been realised that there was no majority for any form of Brexit, and notification could have been postponed until such time as a majority was found for a proposal.
Tonight's votes are what should have happened before triggering Article 50. It would have then been realised that there was no majority for any form of Brexit, and notification could have been postponed until such time as a majority was found for a proposal. |
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mojo
Junior Member
🗨️ 2,191
👍🏻 3,722
May 2014
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Brexit
Mar 28, 2019 0:00:59 GMT 1
Brexit, by mojo on Mar 28, 2019 0:00:59 GMT 1, From those results it looks like another referendum it is then followed by a general election?
Brenda's gonna be well pissed off.
From those results it looks like another referendum it is then followed by a general election?
Brenda's gonna be well pissed off.
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Brexit
Mar 28, 2019 0:30:53 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by Coach on Mar 28, 2019 0:30:53 GMT 1,
Tonight's votes are what should have happened before triggering Article 50. It would have then been realised that there was no majority for any form of Brexit, and notification could have been postponed until such time as a majority was found for a proposal.
Absolutely
Tonight's votes are what should have happened before triggering Article 50. It would have then been realised that there was no majority for any form of Brexit, and notification could have been postponed until such time as a majority was found for a proposal. Absolutely |
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.dappy
Full Member
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December 2010
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Brexit
Mar 28, 2019 2:27:18 GMT 1
via mobile
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.dappy
Full Member
🗨️ 9,841
👍🏻 9,462
December 2010
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Brexit
Mar 28, 2019 2:28:45 GMT 1
via mobile
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