Daylight Robber
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Brexit
Oct 13, 2018 19:39:30 GMT 1
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Brexit, by Daylight Robber on Oct 13, 2018 19:39:30 GMT 1, I said early doors that I'm no fan of Corbyn, but laying this at the feet of Labour, or more specifically Corbyn is nonsense. Brexit well and truly belongs to the Tory party. ...except there were plenty of Tories who campaigned to Remain...and still do.
And who have failed miserably to persuade Tory supporters to remain. That's what the argument here is isn't it? Corbyn not persuading enough Labour supporters to back staying in! Cameron held the referendum to appease his party and then failed to secure the support from a majority of Tory voters. I'm afraid I just don't see how this is Corbyns fault when he didn't even lead the Labour In campaign. The guy has a lot of faults but blaming him for losing the referendum is nuts.
I said early doors that I'm no fan of Corbyn, but laying this at the feet of Labour, or more specifically Corbyn is nonsense. Brexit well and truly belongs to the Tory party. ...except there were plenty of Tories who campaigned to Remain...and still do. And who have failed miserably to persuade Tory supporters to remain. That's what the argument here is isn't it? Corbyn not persuading enough Labour supporters to back staying in! Cameron held the referendum to appease his party and then failed to secure the support from a majority of Tory voters. I'm afraid I just don't see how this is Corbyns fault when he didn't even lead the Labour In campaign. The guy has a lot of faults but blaming him for losing the referendum is nuts. |
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.dappy
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Brexit
Oct 13, 2018 20:22:32 GMT 1
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Brexit, by .dappy on Oct 13, 2018 20:22:32 GMT 1, ... Corbyn and his supporters are starting to sound like Trump ... we all now the there is a Tory press, but blame the media for everything ... nobody likes me, everybody hates me ... not saying nice things about me, not my fault Jeremy ...
... Corbyn and his supporters are starting to sound like Trump ... we all now the there is a Tory press, but blame the media for everything ... nobody likes me, everybody hates me ... not saying nice things about me, not my fault Jeremy ...
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Bill Hicks
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Brexit
Oct 13, 2018 20:29:38 GMT 1
Brexit, by Bill Hicks on Oct 13, 2018 20:29:38 GMT 1, ... Corbyn and his supporters are starting to sound like Trump ... we all now the there is a Tory press, but blame the media for everything ... nobody likes me, everybody hates me ... not saying nice things about me, not my fault Jeremy ...
... Corbyn and his supporters are starting to sound like Trump ... we all now the there is a Tory press, but blame the media for everything ... nobody likes me, everybody hates me ... not saying nice things about me, not my fault Jeremy ... A London School of Economics study into how Jeremy Corbyn is represented in the media found that only a paltry 11% of all newspaper articles about him bothered to accurately state a single one of his actual policies. In the hard-wing Daily Mail and Express that figure was 0%. |
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.dappy
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Brexit
Oct 13, 2018 20:53:16 GMT 1
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Brexit, by .dappy on Oct 13, 2018 20:53:16 GMT 1, ... Corbyn and his supporters are starting to sound like Trump ... we all now the there is a Tory press, but blame the media for everything ... nobody likes me, everybody hates me ... not saying nice things about me, not my fault Jeremy ... A London School of Economics study into how Jeremy Corbyn is represented in the media found that only a paltry 11% of all newspaper articles about him bothered to accurately state a single one of his actual policies. In the hard-wing Daily Mail and Express that figure was 0%.
... that really is a meaningless statistic, everytime you read it ... 'about JC', 'accurately state', 'his' 'actual policies' more loopholes than a Cornish fishermen's net fishing in the Bay of Biscay ...
... Corbyn and his supporters are starting to sound like Trump ... we all now the there is a Tory press, but blame the media for everything ... nobody likes me, everybody hates me ... not saying nice things about me, not my fault Jeremy ... A London School of Economics study into how Jeremy Corbyn is represented in the media found that only a paltry 11% of all newspaper articles about him bothered to accurately state a single one of his actual policies. In the hard-wing Daily Mail and Express that figure was 0%. ... that really is a meaningless statistic, everytime you read it ... 'about JC', 'accurately state', 'his' 'actual policies' more loopholes than a Cornish fishermen's net fishing in the Bay of Biscay ... |
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Bill Hicks
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May 2008
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Brexit
Oct 13, 2018 20:59:24 GMT 1
Brexit, by Bill Hicks on Oct 13, 2018 20:59:24 GMT 1, A London School of Economics study into how Jeremy Corbyn is represented in the media found that only a paltry 11% of all newspaper articles about him bothered to accurately state a single one of his actual policies. In the hard-wing Daily Mail and Express that figure was 0%. ... that really is a meaningless statistic, everytime you read it ... 'about JC', 'accurately state', 'his' 'actual policies' more loopholes than a Cornish fishermen's net fishing in the Bay of Biscay ...
LSE researchers found that 75 per cent of articles โeither distorted or failed to represent his actual views on subjectsโ. Worse, in only 11 per cent of stories were his views fairly represented. In terms of tone, less than 10 per cent of reports were judged as positive.
At the time, I suggested that it was difficult to imagine the broadcast media, and especially the BBC, had done any better.
Now the data are in, and โ surprise, surprise โ the BBCโs performance is even more dismal than that of the press.
The Media Reform Coalition and Birbeck, University of London, studied the coverage in both the press and broadcast media of the recent attempted Labour leadership coup and found โclear and consistent biasโ against Corbyn.
Like the LSE report, the new research argues that โimbalanced reportingโ has become so grave that it poses a serious threat to the democratic process.
One graph in particular is shocking. It shows how the BBCโs early evening news programme has treated Corbyn โ and it ainโt pretty.
Screen Shot 2016-07-29 at 18.49.41
Remember that the BBC, unlike the press, is supposed to abide by strict rules of impartiality, and that its early evening news programme is probably the single most influential source of news for most Britons.
The graph shows that the BBC is failing to make even the most minimal efforts at even-handedness. The issues it uses to frame its news coverage are nearly five times more likely to present Corbyn in a negative light. Even worse, BBC news headlines during the study period failed to frame any story in a positive light for Corbyn.
The BBCโs main broadcast rival, ITV, looks positively pro-Corbyn in comparison, even though it was three time more likely to frame its headlines in critical rather than supportive ways.
Amazingly, there are still those who say our assumptions of entrenched and systematic media bias against Corbyn are simply in our imaginations, evidence only that we have been sucked into a Corbyn cult.
But both studies confirm that the only people who have been lured into a cult are those who continue credulously to believe a small neoliberal elite and their spokespeople in the corporate media can give a fair hearing to someone like Corbyn who might threaten their power.
Many have argued that the BBCโs chief political reporter, Laura Kuenssberg, has been acting more like a spokeswoman for Tory Central Office (or for the Parliamentary Labour Party) than a dispassionate journalist. Now we have the definitive proof.
A London School of Economics study into how Jeremy Corbyn is represented in the media found that only a paltry 11% of all newspaper articles about him bothered to accurately state a single one of his actual policies. In the hard-wing Daily Mail and Express that figure was 0%. ... that really is a meaningless statistic, everytime you read it ... 'about JC', 'accurately state', 'his' 'actual policies' more loopholes than a Cornish fishermen's net fishing in the Bay of Biscay ... The London School of Economics published a report showing that uniformly the British press had misrepresented and denigrated Jeremy Corbyn from the moment he won the Labour party leadership last year. It was not that he had failed as leader; he was never given a chance to succeed. LSE researchers found that 75 per cent of articles โeither distorted or failed to represent his actual views on subjectsโ. Worse, in only 11 per cent of stories were his views fairly represented. In terms of tone, less than 10 per cent of reports were judged as positive. At the time, I suggested that it was difficult to imagine the broadcast media, and especially the BBC, had done any better. Now the data are in, and โ surprise, surprise โ the BBCโs performance is even more dismal than that of the press. The Media Reform Coalition and Birbeck, University of London, studied the coverage in both the press and broadcast media of the recent attempted Labour leadership coup and found โclear and consistent biasโ against Corbyn. Like the LSE report, the new research argues that โimbalanced reportingโ has become so grave that it poses a serious threat to the democratic process. One graph in particular is shocking. It shows how the BBCโs early evening news programme has treated Corbyn โ and it ainโt pretty. Screen Shot 2016-07-29 at 18.49.41 Remember that the BBC, unlike the press, is supposed to abide by strict rules of impartiality, and that its early evening news programme is probably the single most influential source of news for most Britons. The graph shows that the BBC is failing to make even the most minimal efforts at even-handedness. The issues it uses to frame its news coverage are nearly five times more likely to present Corbyn in a negative light. Even worse, BBC news headlines during the study period failed to frame any story in a positive light for Corbyn. The BBCโs main broadcast rival, ITV, looks positively pro-Corbyn in comparison, even though it was three time more likely to frame its headlines in critical rather than supportive ways. Amazingly, there are still those who say our assumptions of entrenched and systematic media bias against Corbyn are simply in our imaginations, evidence only that we have been sucked into a Corbyn cult. But both studies confirm that the only people who have been lured into a cult are those who continue credulously to believe a small neoliberal elite and their spokespeople in the corporate media can give a fair hearing to someone like Corbyn who might threaten their power. Many have argued that the BBCโs chief political reporter, Laura Kuenssberg, has been acting more like a spokeswoman for Tory Central Office (or for the Parliamentary Labour Party) than a dispassionate journalist. Now we have the definitive proof. |
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.dappy
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Brexit
Oct 13, 2018 22:57:50 GMT 1
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Brexit, by .dappy on Oct 13, 2018 22:57:50 GMT 1, ... the Tories are always complaining that the BBC are biased against them ... and have taken active steps in curtailing the BBC in what they do and the communication channels that they use ...
... if both sides are complaining how unfair Auntie Beeb is, they can't be doing a bad job ๐๐๐
... the Tories are always complaining that the BBC are biased against them ... and have taken active steps in curtailing the BBC in what they do and the communication channels that they use ...
... if both sides are complaining how unfair Auntie Beeb is, they can't be doing a bad job ๐๐๐
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.dappy
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Brexit
Oct 13, 2018 23:03:52 GMT 1
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Brexit, by .dappy on Oct 13, 2018 23:03:52 GMT 1, ... why do you always complain about the Corbyn and how unfair the media is to him as an individual ... you don't get supporters personalising May ...
... shouldn't it be about 'Labour' and what you, as a party, plan to do for the people?
... as I said Corbyn and his supporters are turning to the tactics of Trump ... nobody likes me, everybody hates me
... why do you always complain about the Corbyn and how unfair the media is to him as an individual ... you don't get supporters personalising May ...
... shouldn't it be about 'Labour' and what you, as a party, plan to do for the people?
... as I said Corbyn and his supporters are turning to the tactics of Trump ... nobody likes me, everybody hates me
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Daylight Robber
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Brexit
Oct 13, 2018 23:21:13 GMT 1
Brexit, by Daylight Robber on Oct 13, 2018 23:21:13 GMT 1, ... the Tories are always complaining that the BBC are biased against them ... and have taken active steps in curtailing the BBC in what they do and the communication channels that they use ...
... as I said Corbyn and his supporters are turning to the tactics of Trump ... nobody likes me, everybody hates me
Can you just clarify who you think is behaving like Trump again? The supporters of Corbyn complaining, or the government of the country taking steps to curtail the state broadcaster?
... the Tories are always complaining that the BBC are biased against them ... and have taken active steps in curtailing the BBC in what they do and the communication channels that they use ... ... as I said Corbyn and his supporters are turning to the tactics of Trump ... nobody likes me, everybody hates me Can you just clarify who you think is behaving like Trump again? The supporters of Corbyn complaining, or the government of the country taking steps to curtail the state broadcaster? |
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rebate
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January 2018
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Brexit
Oct 13, 2018 23:25:22 GMT 1
Brexit, by rebate on Oct 13, 2018 23:25:22 GMT 1, ... why do you always complain about the Corbyn and how unfair the media is to him as an individual ... you don't get supporters personalising May ...
... why do you always complain about the Corbyn and how unfair the media is to him as an individual ... you don't get supporters personalising May ... Erm, in the last election she tried to hide herself from the tory brand and everything was team Theresa! Only reason she couldnt, most people hate her just as much. |
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.dappy
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Brexit
Oct 13, 2018 23:52:36 GMT 1
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Brexit, by .dappy on Oct 13, 2018 23:52:36 GMT 1, ... the Tories are always complaining that the BBC are biased against them ... and have taken active steps in curtailing the BBC in what they do and the communication channels that they use ... ... as I said Corbyn and his supporters are turning to the tactics of Trump ... nobody likes me, everybody hates me Can you just clarify who you think is behaving like Trump again? The supporters of Corbyn complaining, or the government of the country taking steps to curtail the state broadcaster?
... easy one ... Corbynites have studied the way Trump handles the media and they are learning from him ... I am not saying the Corby is like Trump ... just the way he is handling himself ...
... the problem is ... whenever Corby talks ... he sounds so insincere ... no matter what he says ... he has a communication problem
... the Tories are always complaining that the BBC are biased against them ... and have taken active steps in curtailing the BBC in what they do and the communication channels that they use ... ... as I said Corbyn and his supporters are turning to the tactics of Trump ... nobody likes me, everybody hates me Can you just clarify who you think is behaving like Trump again? The supporters of Corbyn complaining, or the government of the country taking steps to curtail the state broadcaster? ... easy one ... Corbynites have studied the way Trump handles the media and they are learning from him ... I am not saying the Corby is like Trump ... just the way he is handling himself ... ... the problem is ... whenever Corby talks ... he sounds so insincere ... no matter what he says ... he has a communication problem |
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rebate
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Brexit
Oct 14, 2018 1:07:21 GMT 1
Brexit, by rebate on Oct 14, 2018 1:07:21 GMT 1, Can you just clarify who you think is behaving like Trump again? The supporters of Corbyn complaining, or the government of the country taking steps to curtail the state broadcaster? ... easy one ... Corbynites have studied the way Trump handles the media and they are learning from him ... I am not saying the Corby is like Trump ... just the way he is handling himself ... ... the problem is ... whenever Corby talks ... he sounds so insincere ... no matter what he says ... he has a communication problem
When it comes to communication issues, the tories cant even talk to each other, let alone the voting population. And her ground troops are apparently so demotivated by her shit leadership they are refusing to even go doorstepping for her.
Those tory tinted spectacles are still pretty good at filtering out reality arent they lol.
Can you just clarify who you think is behaving like Trump again? The supporters of Corbyn complaining, or the government of the country taking steps to curtail the state broadcaster? ... easy one ... Corbynites have studied the way Trump handles the media and they are learning from him ... I am not saying the Corby is like Trump ... just the way he is handling himself ... ... the problem is ... whenever Corby talks ... he sounds so insincere ... no matter what he says ... he has a communication problem communication problem? lol he has motivated a huge swathe of the country. He has increased labour membership beyond that of ALL other UK political parties combined. He hasnt learnt how to handle the media from Trump! couldnt be further from the truth. Corbyn handles them by pretty much ignoring them, because he knows they will flay his every word, therefore he refuses to feed the trolls. I mean lets be fair, with May and the tories in meltdown, a smart man would sit back and let them carry on destroying themselves, as he has. When it comes to communication issues, the tories cant even talk to each other, let alone the voting population. And her ground troops are apparently so demotivated by her shit leadership they are refusing to even go doorstepping for her. Those tory tinted spectacles are still pretty good at filtering out reality arent they lol. |
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Pysgod
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December 2016
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Brexit
Oct 14, 2018 1:19:29 GMT 1
Brexit, by Pysgod on Oct 14, 2018 1:19:29 GMT 1, ... easy one ... Corbynites have studied the way Trump handles the media and they are learning from him ... I am not saying the Corby is like Trump ... just the way he is handling himself ... ... the problem is ... whenever Corby talks ... he sounds so insincere ... no matter what he says ... he has a communication problem communication problem? lol he has motivated a huge swathe of the country. He has increased labour membership beyond that of ALL other UK political parties combined. He hasnt learnt how to handle the media from Trump! couldnt be further from the truth. Corbyn handles them by pretty much ignoring them, because he knows they will flay his every word, therefore he refuses to feed the trolls. I mean lets be fair, with May and the tories in meltdown, a smart man would sit back and let them carry on destroying themselves, as he has. When it comes to communication issues, the tories cant even talk to each other, let alone the voting population. And her ground troops are apparently so demotivated by hers**t leadership they are refusing to even go doorstepping for her. Those tory tinted spectacles are still pretty good at filtering out reality arent they lol.
... easy one ... Corbynites have studied the way Trump handles the media and they are learning from him ... I am not saying the Corby is like Trump ... just the way he is handling himself ... ... the problem is ... whenever Corby talks ... he sounds so insincere ... no matter what he says ... he has a communication problem communication problem? lol he has motivated a huge swathe of the country. He has increased labour membership beyond that of ALL other UK political parties combined. He hasnt learnt how to handle the media from Trump! couldnt be further from the truth. Corbyn handles them by pretty much ignoring them, because he knows they will flay his every word, therefore he refuses to feed the trolls. I mean lets be fair, with May and the tories in meltdown, a smart man would sit back and let them carry on destroying themselves, as he has. When it comes to communication issues, the tories cant even talk to each other, let alone the voting population. And her ground troops are apparently so demotivated by hers**t leadership they are refusing to even go doorstepping for her. Those tory tinted spectacles are still pretty good at filtering out reality arent they lol. Get some sleep Swampy it will do you good |
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rebate
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January 2018
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Brexit
Oct 14, 2018 1:21:41 GMT 1
Brexit, by rebate on Oct 14, 2018 1:21:41 GMT 1, communication problem? lol he has motivated a huge swathe of the country. He has increased labour membership beyond that of ALL other UK political parties combined. He hasnt learnt how to handle the media from Trump! couldnt be further from the truth. Corbyn handles them by pretty much ignoring them, because he knows they will flay his every word, therefore he refuses to feed the trolls. I mean lets be fair, with May and the tories in meltdown, a smart man would sit back and let them carry on destroying themselves, as he has. When it comes to communication issues, the tories cant even talk to each other, let alone the voting population. And her ground troops are apparently so demotivated by hers**t leadership they are refusing to even go doorstepping for her. Those tory tinted spectacles are still pretty good at filtering out reality arent they lol. Get some sleep Swampy it will do you good
communication problem? lol he has motivated a huge swathe of the country. He has increased labour membership beyond that of ALL other UK political parties combined. He hasnt learnt how to handle the media from Trump! couldnt be further from the truth. Corbyn handles them by pretty much ignoring them, because he knows they will flay his every word, therefore he refuses to feed the trolls. I mean lets be fair, with May and the tories in meltdown, a smart man would sit back and let them carry on destroying themselves, as he has. When it comes to communication issues, the tories cant even talk to each other, let alone the voting population. And her ground troops are apparently so demotivated by hers**t leadership they are refusing to even go doorstepping for her. Those tory tinted spectacles are still pretty good at filtering out reality arent they lol. Get some sleep Swampy it will do you good Get a life you loser. |
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.dappy
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Brexit
Oct 14, 2018 1:55:13 GMT 1
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Brexit, by .dappy on Oct 14, 2018 1:55:13 GMT 1, ... easy one ... Corbynites have studied the way Trump handles the media and they are learning from him ... I am not saying the Corby is like Trump ... just the way he is handling himself ... ... the problem is ... whenever Corby talks ... he sounds so insincere ... no matter what he says ... he has a communication problem communication problem? lol he has motivated a huge swathe of the country. He has increased labour membership beyond that of ALL other UK political parties combined. He hasnt learnt how to handle the media from Trump! couldnt be further from the truth. Corbyn handles them by pretty much ignoring them, because he knows they will flay his every word, therefore he refuses to feed the trolls. I mean lets be fair, with May and the tories in meltdown, a smart man would sit back and let them carry on destroying themselves, as he has.ย When it comes to communication issues, the tories cant even talk to each other, let alone the voting population. And her ground troops are apparently so demotivated by hers**t leadership they are refusing to even go doorstepping for her.ย Those tory tinted spectacles are still pretty good at filtering out reality arent they lol.ย
... and now you label me as a Tory ... lol ... with the Govt in such disarray ... as you say ... why aren't the Labour party so far ahead in the polls? bit like last time and the last general election ... what will you do if Corby looses two elections in a row?
... are you going to accuse me of being a blairite now? lol
... easy one ... Corbynites have studied the way Trump handles the media and they are learning from him ... I am not saying the Corby is like Trump ... just the way he is handling himself ... ... the problem is ... whenever Corby talks ... he sounds so insincere ... no matter what he says ... he has a communication problem communication problem? lol he has motivated a huge swathe of the country. He has increased labour membership beyond that of ALL other UK political parties combined. He hasnt learnt how to handle the media from Trump! couldnt be further from the truth. Corbyn handles them by pretty much ignoring them, because he knows they will flay his every word, therefore he refuses to feed the trolls. I mean lets be fair, with May and the tories in meltdown, a smart man would sit back and let them carry on destroying themselves, as he has.ย When it comes to communication issues, the tories cant even talk to each other, let alone the voting population. And her ground troops are apparently so demotivated by hers**t leadership they are refusing to even go doorstepping for her.ย Those tory tinted spectacles are still pretty good at filtering out reality arent they lol.ย ... and now you label me as a Tory ... lol ... with the Govt in such disarray ... as you say ... why aren't the Labour party so far ahead in the polls? bit like last time and the last general election ... what will you do if Corby looses two elections in a row? ... are you going to accuse me of being a blairite now? lol |
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nex
Junior Member
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February 2009
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Brexit
Oct 14, 2018 5:00:43 GMT 1
Brexit, by nex on Oct 14, 2018 5:00:43 GMT 1, as with most labour squabbles both have valid points and the biggest issue is the fact they're squabbling, join forces and revel in the utter mess that is the tory party at the moment.
Yes Corbyn isn't going to appeal to everyone but who the fuck is these days?
Yes most of the media despises him, but who the fuck listens to the media anymore?
And yes, they made an utter mess of the antisemitic complaints.
And yet.
The tories are destroying the UK, have you ever seen the country so divided? Has the wealth disparity been larger? Has there been more ppl needing support from food banks? Homeless people? Austerity destroying the every fabric of the UK's society.
So all of you, fucking shut up and aim your ire where it's needed, literally lives depend on it.
as with most labour squabbles both have valid points and the biggest issue is the fact they're squabbling, join forces and revel in the utter mess that is the tory party at the moment.
Yes Corbyn isn't going to appeal to everyone but who the fuck is these days?
Yes most of the media despises him, but who the fuck listens to the media anymore?
And yes, they made an utter mess of the antisemitic complaints.
And yet.
The tories are destroying the UK, have you ever seen the country so divided? Has the wealth disparity been larger? Has there been more ppl needing support from food banks? Homeless people? Austerity destroying the every fabric of the UK's society.
So all of you, fucking shut up and aim your ire where it's needed, literally lives depend on it.
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rebate
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,050
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January 2018
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Brexit
Oct 14, 2018 8:51:41 GMT 1
Brexit, by rebate on Oct 14, 2018 8:51:41 GMT 1, communication problem? lol he has motivated a huge swathe of the country. He has increased labour membership beyond that of ALL other UK political parties combined. He hasnt learnt how to handle the media from Trump! couldnt be further from the truth. Corbyn handles them by pretty much ignoring them, because he knows they will flay his every word, therefore he refuses to feed the trolls. I mean lets be fair, with May and the tories in meltdown, a smart man would sit back and let them carry on destroying themselves, as he has. When it comes to communication issues, the tories cant even talk to each other, let alone the voting population. And her ground troops are apparently so demotivated by hers**t leadership they are refusing to even go doorstepping for her. Those tory tinted spectacles are still pretty good at filtering out reality arent they lol. ... and now you label me as a Tory ... lol ... with the Govt in such disarray ... as you say ... why aren't the Labour party so far ahead in the polls? bit like last time and the last general election ... what will you do if Corby looses two elections in a row? ... are you going to accuse me of being a blairite now? lol
Because the polls as i have said a million times, are a load ofs**t these days. The demographic they relied upon when they used to be fairly accurate, are mainly dead now. The youth vote and the majority of people tell them to f**koff at the door and f**koff on the street. So they are representative of mainly tories, who are still old and engaged by such fakery.
Well, i would be disapointed, and ashamed of the idiots willing to vote the murderous tories in again.
Why dont you man the f**kup, and actually stand up for YOUR beliefs? i mean to be fair, your pretty much left with UKIP, Green party or the frigging lib dems, so im keen to hear which of those 3 you are planning to raise from their political wilderness and help into power, ffs. Or are you a true blue traditionalist labour voter, who just hates Corbyn? you know the ones, never knew what labour was anyway.
no, at this stage, i wouldnt bother calling you a Blairite, id assume you have no direction at all for the moment.
communication problem? lol he has motivated a huge swathe of the country. He has increased labour membership beyond that of ALL other UK political parties combined. He hasnt learnt how to handle the media from Trump! couldnt be further from the truth. Corbyn handles them by pretty much ignoring them, because he knows they will flay his every word, therefore he refuses to feed the trolls. I mean lets be fair, with May and the tories in meltdown, a smart man would sit back and let them carry on destroying themselves, as he has. When it comes to communication issues, the tories cant even talk to each other, let alone the voting population. And her ground troops are apparently so demotivated by hers**t leadership they are refusing to even go doorstepping for her. Those tory tinted spectacles are still pretty good at filtering out reality arent they lol. ... and now you label me as a Tory ... lol ... with the Govt in such disarray ... as you say ... why aren't the Labour party so far ahead in the polls? bit like last time and the last general election ... what will you do if Corby looses two elections in a row? ... are you going to accuse me of being a blairite now? lol Ok dappy, what are your actual political beliefs. Why dont we start from there. Because the polls as i have said a million times, are a load ofs**t these days. The demographic they relied upon when they used to be fairly accurate, are mainly dead now. The youth vote and the majority of people tell them to f**koff at the door and f**koff on the street. So they are representative of mainly tories, who are still old and engaged by such fakery. Well, i would be disapointed, and ashamed of the idiots willing to vote the murderous tories in again. Why dont you man the f**kup, and actually stand up for YOUR beliefs? i mean to be fair, your pretty much left with UKIP, Green party or the frigging lib dems, so im keen to hear which of those 3 you are planning to raise from their political wilderness and help into power, ffs. Or are you a true blue traditionalist labour voter, who just hates Corbyn? you know the ones, never knew what labour was anyway. no, at this stage, i wouldnt bother calling you a Blairite, id assume you have no direction at all for the moment. |
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rebate
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January 2018
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Brexit
Oct 14, 2018 8:57:33 GMT 1
Brexit, by rebate on Oct 14, 2018 8:57:33 GMT 1, as with most labour squabbles both have valid points and the biggest issue is the fact they're squabbling, join forces and revel in the utter mess that is the tory party at the moment. Yes Corbyn isn't going to appeal to everyone but who the f**kis these days? Yes most of the media despises him, but who the f**klistens to the media anymore? And yes, they made an utter mess of the antisemitic complaints. And yet. The tories are destroying the UK, have you ever seen the country so divided? Has the wealth disparity been larger? Has there been more ppl needing support from food banks? Homeless people? Austerity destroying the every fabric of the UK's society. So all of you, f**kingshut up and aim your ire where it's needed, literally lives depend on it.
This bit is why i refuse to shut up! i can just as easy pick up my shit and just leave!!! But that doesnt sit well for me. I would have just become the same self centred wanker that can just do whats best for them if i did that, might as well vote tory AND leave if im going to shut up!
as with most labour squabbles both have valid points and the biggest issue is the fact they're squabbling, join forces and revel in the utter mess that is the tory party at the moment. Yes Corbyn isn't going to appeal to everyone but who the f**kis these days? Yes most of the media despises him, but who the f**klistens to the media anymore? And yes, they made an utter mess of the antisemitic complaints. And yet. The tories are destroying the UK, have you ever seen the country so divided? Has the wealth disparity been larger? Has there been more ppl needing support from food banks? Homeless people? Austerity destroying the every fabric of the UK's society. So all of you, f**kingshut up and aim your ire where it's needed, literally lives depend on it. "So all of you, f**kingshut up and aim your ire where it's needed, literally lives depend on it." This bit is why i refuse to shut up! i can just as easy pick up my shit and just leave!!! But that doesnt sit well for me. I would have just become the same self centred wanker that can just do whats best for them if i did that, might as well vote tory AND leave if im going to shut up! |
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Brexit
Oct 14, 2018 10:43:50 GMT 1
Brexit, by Deleted on Oct 14, 2018 10:43:50 GMT 1, ... Corbyn and his supporters are starting to sound like Trump ... we all now the there is a Tory press, but blame the media for everything ... nobody likes me, everybody hates me ... not saying nice things about me, not my fault Jeremy ...
I feel like shaking Corbyn fans out of their non-thinking adoration and telling them to wake up and face reality. It's almost as if they have been brainwashed by this religious cult like figure.
... Corbyn and his supporters are starting to sound like Trump ... we all now the there is a Tory press, but blame the media for everything ... nobody likes me, everybody hates me ... not saying nice things about me, not my fault Jeremy ... It's not just that Corbyn's fanbase sounds uncannily similar to Trump's fanbase. It's also the simplistic answers to the respective country's problems. Corbyn stands on stage and speaks to an adoring crowd saying "We will end austerity! We will make university education free! We will give free travel to all under 25s! We will give millions to the NHS! We will increase welfare benefits! We will nationalise major industries!" And he gets a standing ovation from a chanting crowd with tears in their eyes. I find it all quite disturbing. I feel like shaking Corbyn fans out of their non-thinking adoration and telling them to wake up and face reality. It's almost as if they have been brainwashed by this religious cult like figure. |
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Brexit
Oct 14, 2018 10:53:43 GMT 1
Brexit, by Deleted on Oct 14, 2018 10:53:43 GMT 1, ... why do you always complain about the Corbyn and how unfair the media is to him as an individual ... you don't get supporters personalising May ... Erm, in the last election she tried to hide herself from the tory brand and everything was team Theresa! Only reason she couldnt, most people hate her just as much.
The Tories are in the middle of a long stretch of government. Usually the opposition are at least 10 points ahead by this point in time. Add on to that the Brexit disarray and the Tory in-fighting and Labour should be about 15 or even 20 points ahead. And where are they? A few points behind!
And you still maintain people hate May and the Tories? The evidence doesn't support your claim at all.
... why do you always complain about the Corbyn and how unfair the media is to him as an individual ... you don't get supporters personalising May ... Erm, in the last election she tried to hide herself from the tory brand and everything was team Theresa! Only reason she couldnt, most people hate her just as much. ...except she is still ahead of Corbyn in the polls. The Tories are in the middle of a long stretch of government. Usually the opposition are at least 10 points ahead by this point in time. Add on to that the Brexit disarray and the Tory in-fighting and Labour should be about 15 or even 20 points ahead. And where are they? A few points behind! And you still maintain people hate May and the Tories? The evidence doesn't support your claim at all. |
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rebate
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,050
๐๐ป 961
January 2018
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Brexit
Oct 14, 2018 11:33:52 GMT 1
Brexit, by rebate on Oct 14, 2018 11:33:52 GMT 1, Erm, in the last election she tried to hide herself from the tory brand and everything was team Theresa! Only reason she couldnt, most people hate her just as much. ...except she is still ahead of Corbyn in the polls. The Tories are in the middle of a long stretch of government. Usually the opposition are at least 10 points ahead by this point in time. Add on to that the Brexit disarray and the Tory in-fighting and Labour should be about 15 or even 20 points ahead. And where are they? A few points behind! And you still maintain people hate May and the Tories? The evidence doesn't support your claim at all.
We could maybe try membership figures for a good start on that, but of course, in true tradition, the torys are refusing to publicise theirs.
Erm, in the last election she tried to hide herself from the tory brand and everything was team Theresa! Only reason she couldnt, most people hate her just as much. ...except she is still ahead of Corbyn in the polls. The Tories are in the middle of a long stretch of government. Usually the opposition are at least 10 points ahead by this point in time. Add on to that the Brexit disarray and the Tory in-fighting and Labour should be about 15 or even 20 points ahead. And where are they? A few points behind! And you still maintain people hate May and the Tories? The evidence doesn't support your claim at all. Thats a hell of a lot of reliance on the validity of the polls. Even then, they are not really what you could call evidence. We could maybe try membership figures for a good start on that, but of course, in true tradition, the torys are refusing to publicise theirs. |
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Brexit
Oct 14, 2018 12:12:49 GMT 1
Brexit, by Deleted on Oct 14, 2018 12:12:49 GMT 1, It's interesting that Labour's membership is, as you say, much larger than the Conservatives...and yet that doesn't equate to higher votes on election day. That's strange, don't you think? Any idea why?
Also, it's worth pointing out that when Corbyn promises free tuition fees and free rail travel for the under 25s then it is obvious that young people are going to join and vote Labour. It's called bribery.
It's interesting that Labour's membership is, as you say, much larger than the Conservatives...and yet that doesn't equate to higher votes on election day. That's strange, don't you think? Any idea why?
Also, it's worth pointing out that when Corbyn promises free tuition fees and free rail travel for the under 25s then it is obvious that young people are going to join and vote Labour. It's called bribery.
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Daylight Robber
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,095
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Member is Online
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Brexit
Oct 14, 2018 12:26:15 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by Daylight Robber on Oct 14, 2018 12:26:15 GMT 1, It's interesting that Labour's membership is, as you say, much larger than the Conservatives...and yet that doesn't equate to higher votes on election day. That's strange, don't you think? Any idea why? Also, it's worth pointing out that when Corbyn promises free tuition fees and free rail travel for the under 25s then it is obvious that young people are going to join and vote Labour. It's called bribery.
In case you hadn't realised all politics is, is bribery. Parties put down policies to attract voters. Some policies benefit individuals, others society as a whole. The reason the Tories do well with a higher vote is because on the whole individuals look after themselves before looking out for each other.
It's interesting that Labour's membership is, as you say, much larger than the Conservatives...and yet that doesn't equate to higher votes on election day. That's strange, don't you think? Any idea why? Also, it's worth pointing out that when Corbyn promises free tuition fees and free rail travel for the under 25s then it is obvious that young people are going to join and vote Labour. It's called bribery. In case you hadn't realised all politics is, is bribery. Parties put down policies to attract voters. Some policies benefit individuals, others society as a whole. The reason the Tories do well with a higher vote is because on the whole individuals look after themselves before looking out for each other. |
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rebate
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,050
๐๐ป 961
January 2018
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Brexit
Oct 14, 2018 12:33:06 GMT 1
Brexit, by rebate on Oct 14, 2018 12:33:06 GMT 1, It's interesting that Labour's membership is, as you say, much larger than the Conservatives...and yet that doesn't equate to higher votes on election day. That's strange, don't you think? Any idea why? Also, it's worth pointing out that when Corbyn promises free tuition fees and free rail travel for the under 25s then it is obvious that young people are going to join and vote Labour. It's called bribery.
But you keep up that twisted short term, short sighted small picture thinking process.
We have had one election day since Corbyn took over, and he hadnt found his feet yet and was still being smashed about in the press, in front of people who didnt really know who he was. The next election will be a different story, and then the polls you relly on so much, will probably look even less viable than they did the last 2 times.
It's interesting that Labour's membership is, as you say, much larger than the Conservatives...and yet that doesn't equate to higher votes on election day. That's strange, don't you think? Any idea why? Also, it's worth pointing out that when Corbyn promises free tuition fees and free rail travel for the under 25s then it is obvious that young people are going to join and vote Labour. It's called bribery. yeah well, thats a great but utterly false premise right there. The same and usual one that taints anyone trying to do better for everyone. Tuition being free means a lot more of the best people will be able to afford education rather than just the rich no matter what level of inteligence they have. Thats of course, better for the economy so a value added situation. Same thing for UBI, better health, less mental illness due to stress, less pressure on services, less need to give your least in as**t job you hate, the ability to perfect what you are best at and enjoy therefore better productivity, less drug use, less crime etc etc. Public ownership is another one that gets misrepresented as spending never ending money, its not, its buying an assett that will make peoples lives better and generate a future revenue. But you keep up that twisted short term, short sighted small picture thinking process. We have had one election day since Corbyn took over, and he hadnt found his feet yet and was still being smashed about in the press, in front of people who didnt really know who he was. The next election will be a different story, and then the polls you relly on so much, will probably look even less viable than they did the last 2 times. |
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
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Brexit
Oct 14, 2018 12:38:35 GMT 1
Brexit, by Deleted on Oct 14, 2018 12:38:35 GMT 1, It's interesting that Labour's membership is, as you say, much larger than the Conservatives...and yet that doesn't equate to higher votes on election day. That's strange, don't you think? Any idea why? Also, it's worth pointing out that when Corbyn promises free tuition fees and free rail travel for the under 25s then it is obvious that young people are going to join and vote Labour. It's called bribery. In case you hadn't realised all politics is, is bribery. Parties put down policies to attract voters. Some policies benefit individuals, others society as a whole. The reason the Tories do well with a higher vote is because on the whole individuals look after themselves before looking out for each other.
It's interesting that Labour's membership is, as you say, much larger than the Conservatives...and yet that doesn't equate to higher votes on election day. That's strange, don't you think? Any idea why? Also, it's worth pointing out that when Corbyn promises free tuition fees and free rail travel for the under 25s then it is obvious that young people are going to join and vote Labour. It's called bribery. In case you hadn't realised all politics is, is bribery. Parties put down policies to attract voters. Some policies benefit individuals, others society as a whole. The reason the Tories do well with a higher vote is because on the whole individuals look after themselves before looking out for each other. I think that's the reason why Labour voters vote Labour as well, isn't it? If you're poor then you think you will be better off with a Labour government than a Tory one. |
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Pysgod
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,677
๐๐ป 1,347
December 2016
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Brexit
Oct 14, 2018 12:48:07 GMT 1
Brexit, by Pysgod on Oct 14, 2018 12:48:07 GMT 1, It's interesting that Labour's membership is, as you say, much larger than the Conservatives...and yet that doesn't equate to higher votes on election day. That's strange, don't you think? Any idea why? Also, it's worth pointing out that when Corbyn promises free tuition fees and free rail travel for the under 25s then it is obvious that young people are going to join and vote Labour. It's called bribery. yeah well, thats a great but utterly false premise right there. The same and usual one that taints anyone trying to do better for everyone. Tuition being free means a lot more of the best people will be able to afford education rather than just the rich no matter what level of inteligence they have. Thats of course, better for the economy so a value added situation. Same thing for UBI, better health, less mental illness due to stress, less pressure on services, less need to give your least in as**t job you hate, the ability to perfect what you are best at and enjoy therefore better productivity, less drug use, less crime etc etc. Public ownership is another one that gets misrepresented as spending never ending money, its not, its buying an assett that will make peoples lives better and generate a future revenue. But you keep up that twisted short term, short sighted small picture thinking process. We have had one election day since Corbyn took over, and he hadnt found his feet yet and was still being smashed about in the press, in front of people who didnt really know who he was. The next election will be a different story, and then the polls you relly on so much, will probably look even less viable than they did the last 2 times.
It's interesting that Labour's membership is, as you say, much larger than the Conservatives...and yet that doesn't equate to higher votes on election day. That's strange, don't you think? Any idea why? Also, it's worth pointing out that when Corbyn promises free tuition fees and free rail travel for the under 25s then it is obvious that young people are going to join and vote Labour. It's called bribery. yeah well, thats a great but utterly false premise right there. The same and usual one that taints anyone trying to do better for everyone. Tuition being free means a lot more of the best people will be able to afford education rather than just the rich no matter what level of inteligence they have. Thats of course, better for the economy so a value added situation. Same thing for UBI, better health, less mental illness due to stress, less pressure on services, less need to give your least in as**t job you hate, the ability to perfect what you are best at and enjoy therefore better productivity, less drug use, less crime etc etc. Public ownership is another one that gets misrepresented as spending never ending money, its not, its buying an assett that will make peoples lives better and generate a future revenue. But you keep up that twisted short term, short sighted small picture thinking process. We have had one election day since Corbyn took over, and he hadnt found his feet yet and was still being smashed about in the press, in front of people who didnt really know who he was. The next election will be a different story, and then the polls you relly on so much, will probably look even less viable than they did the last 2 times. Swampy you are going to give yourself a pull |
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Daylight Robber
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๐จ๏ธ 1,095
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Member is Online
August 2016
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Brexit
Oct 14, 2018 12:48:45 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by Daylight Robber on Oct 14, 2018 12:48:45 GMT 1, In case you hadn't realised all politics is, is bribery. Parties put down policies to attract voters. Some policies benefit individuals, others society as a whole. The reason the Tories do well with a higher vote is because on the whole individuals look after themselves before looking out for each other. I think that's the reason why Labour voters vote Labour as well, isn't it? ย If you're poor then you think you will be better off with a Labour government than a Tory one. ย
And therein lies the issue. A lot of Labour voters are right in their belief that they would be better off under a Labour government. On the whole those who vote Labour knowing they will be less well off see the benefit to society as a whole. Unfortunately, a significant number of Tory voters falsely believe they will be better off under the Tories when they won't.
In case you hadn't realised all politics is, is bribery. Parties put down policies to attract voters. Some policies benefit individuals, others society as a whole. The reason the Tories do well with a higher vote is because on the whole individuals look after themselves before looking out for each other. I think that's the reason why Labour voters vote Labour as well, isn't it? ย If you're poor then you think you will be better off with a Labour government than a Tory one. ย And therein lies the issue. A lot of Labour voters are right in their belief that they would be better off under a Labour government. On the whole those who vote Labour knowing they will be less well off see the benefit to society as a whole. Unfortunately, a significant number of Tory voters falsely believe they will be better off under the Tories when they won't. |
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
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Brexit
Oct 14, 2018 13:08:43 GMT 1
Brexit, by Deleted on Oct 14, 2018 13:08:43 GMT 1, It's interesting that Labour's membership is, as you say, much larger than the Conservatives...and yet that doesn't equate to higher votes on election day. That's strange, don't you think? Any idea why? Also, it's worth pointing out that when Corbyn promises free tuition fees and free rail travel for the under 25s then it is obvious that young people are going to join and vote Labour. It's called bribery. yeah well, thats a great but utterly false premise right there. The same and usual one that taints anyone trying to do better for everyone. Tuition being free means a lot more of the best people will be able to afford education rather than just the rich no matter what level of inteligence they have. Thats of course, better for the economy so a value added situation. Same thing for UBI, better health, less mental illness due to stress, less pressure on services, less need to give your least in as**t job you hate, the ability to perfect what you are best at and enjoy therefore better productivity, less drug use, less crime etc etc. Public ownership is another one that gets misrepresented as spending never ending money, its not, its buying an assett that will make peoples lives better and generate a future revenue. But you keep up that twisted short term, short sighted small picture thinking process. We have had one election day since Corbyn took over, and he hadnt found his feet yet and was still being smashed about in the press, in front of people who didnt really know who he was. The next election will be a different story, and then the polls you relly on so much, will probably look even less viable than they did the last 2 times.
"Tuition being free means a lot more of the best people will be able to afford education rather than just the rich". Untrue. At present you can attend university and if you don't get a high paid job at the end of it you never have to pay back your tuition fees. This actually helps poor people more than rich people who will always find a job anyway (due to the old boys network) and will therefore have to pay back their tuition fees regardless. You are also forgetting that "free tuition" actually has to be paid by someone, i.e. tax from people (including the less well off) who are not going to uni and don't get the benefits of a higher education.
"...less need to give your least in as**t job you hate". That depends more on personal motivation than government policies. And, as we all know, the Tories are the ones who encourage growth and productivity, not Labour. Incidentally, we still need people to do s**t jobs whoever is in power. Some people are quite happy to simply go to work and stack shelves at Tesco all day. Like I said, it's about motivation.
"Public ownership is another one that gets misrepresented as spending never ending money, its not, its buying an assett that will make peoples lives better and generate a future revenue." And yet, historically, that hasn't happened. Socialists need to get out of this habit of thinking public ownership automatically = good and private ownership automatically = bad. It's often the other way round. I am old enough to remember when all the train were in public ownership. I used to travel to work everyday on a train where nobody could sit down because the seats had all been vandalised with the springs poking up out of them and there was no money to replace them. With the uncertainty surrounding Brexit and our future prosperity, when times are hard the first thing that will be ignored will be the upkeep of public companies and replacing train seats with new ones. I am deeply concerned that if the railways are put back in to pubic ownership they will go back to the bad old days I can too easily remember.
"We have had one election day since Corbyn took over, and he hadn't found his feet". He has been in politics long enough. How long does he need to "find his feet"? He was expecting huge gains and a probable victory at the last general election (and the local elections)...and he didn't get it. He tried to put a positive spin on things but the fact of the matter is that the UK public do not respond well to his type of socialism. I suspect the next general election will not see his popularity increase at all. I think it will either plateau or even decrease. He is not as popular as he thinks he is. He can't even beat the most unpopular Tory leader since Thatcher.
It's interesting that Labour's membership is, as you say, much larger than the Conservatives...and yet that doesn't equate to higher votes on election day. That's strange, don't you think? Any idea why? Also, it's worth pointing out that when Corbyn promises free tuition fees and free rail travel for the under 25s then it is obvious that young people are going to join and vote Labour. It's called bribery. yeah well, thats a great but utterly false premise right there. The same and usual one that taints anyone trying to do better for everyone. Tuition being free means a lot more of the best people will be able to afford education rather than just the rich no matter what level of inteligence they have. Thats of course, better for the economy so a value added situation. Same thing for UBI, better health, less mental illness due to stress, less pressure on services, less need to give your least in as**t job you hate, the ability to perfect what you are best at and enjoy therefore better productivity, less drug use, less crime etc etc. Public ownership is another one that gets misrepresented as spending never ending money, its not, its buying an assett that will make peoples lives better and generate a future revenue. But you keep up that twisted short term, short sighted small picture thinking process. We have had one election day since Corbyn took over, and he hadnt found his feet yet and was still being smashed about in the press, in front of people who didnt really know who he was. The next election will be a different story, and then the polls you relly on so much, will probably look even less viable than they did the last 2 times. I'm sorry but you are talking complete rot. " Tuition being free means a lot more of the best people will be able to afford education rather than just the rich". Untrue. At present you can attend university and if you don't get a high paid job at the end of it you never have to pay back your tuition fees. This actually helps poor people more than rich people who will always find a job anyway (due to the old boys network) and will therefore have to pay back their tuition fees regardless. You are also forgetting that "free tuition" actually has to be paid by someone, i.e. tax from people (including the less well off) who are not going to uni and don't get the benefits of a higher education. " ...less need to give your least in as**t job you hate". That depends more on personal motivation than government policies. And, as we all know, the Tories are the ones who encourage growth and productivity, not Labour. Incidentally, we still need people to do s**t jobs whoever is in power. Some people are quite happy to simply go to work and stack shelves at Tesco all day. Like I said, it's about motivation. "Public ownership is another one that gets misrepresented as spending never ending money, its not, its buying an assett that will make peoples lives better and generate a future revenue." And yet, historically, that hasn't happened. Socialists need to get out of this habit of thinking public ownership automatically = good and private ownership automatically = bad. It's often the other way round. I am old enough to remember when all the train were in public ownership. I used to travel to work everyday on a train where nobody could sit down because the seats had all been vandalised with the springs poking up out of them and there was no money to replace them. With the uncertainty surrounding Brexit and our future prosperity, when times are hard the first thing that will be ignored will be the upkeep of public companies and replacing train seats with new ones. I am deeply concerned that if the railways are put back in to pubic ownership they will go back to the bad old days I can too easily remember. "We have had one election day since Corbyn took over, and he hadn't found his feet". He has been in politics long enough. How long does he need to "find his feet"? He was expecting huge gains and a probable victory at the last general election (and the local elections)...and he didn't get it. He tried to put a positive spin on things but the fact of the matter is that the UK public do not respond well to his type of socialism. I suspect the next general election will not see his popularity increase at all. I think it will either plateau or even decrease. He is not as popular as he thinks he is. He can't even beat the most unpopular Tory leader since Thatcher. |
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Bill Hicks
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 939
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May 2008
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Brexit
Oct 14, 2018 13:20:47 GMT 1
Piled on more debt in 4 years than Labour did in 13: blogs.spectator.co.uk/2013/11/the-tories-have-piled-on-more-debt-than-labour/A rise in wealth inequality on the horizon: www.ft.com/content/4642c8d6-eb95-11e6-ba01-119a44939bb6Dismantling of disability benefits is a breach of human rights: www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/un-report-disability-disabled-rights-violating-austerity-welfare-reform-esa-pip-a7404956.htmlNumber of homeless children hit an eight year high last year: www.theguardian.com/society/2016/nov/03/child-homelessness-christmas-eight-year-high-shelter-12000-children-temporary-accommodationChild poverty expected to rise by 50% by 2020: www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jun/28/number-uk-children-living-inpoverty-jumps-200000Living standards fell for all but the richest: www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/05/uk-living-standards-fell-for-all-but-the-richest-under-coalition-analysisUK wages dropped 10% since 2007, the second-biggest hit in Europe: www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/uk-wages-drop-10-tuc-greece-recession-financial-crisis-brexit-a7157681.htmlAs of 2011, British people work the 3rd longest out of everyone in Europe: www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2011/dec/08/europe-working-hours16 million people have less than ยฃ100 in savings: www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37504449UK productivity growth is the weakest since WW2 www.theguardian.com/business/2015/apr/01/uk-productivity-growth-is-weakest-since-wwii-says-onsGDP per capita is lower than it was before 2008: www.theguardian.com/books/2015/may/24/joseph-stiglitz-interview-uk-economy-lost-decade-zero-growthDeficit was supposed to be eliminated by 2015, now the target is 2020: www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/04/21/deficit-figures-an-embarrassment-for-george-osborne-as-he-misses/For parents in full-time work the rate of poverty has risen to 8%, and the number of people in working-poor in absolute poverty grew by 2 million in the last decade: www.economist.com/news/britain/21701216-number-working-poor-growing-blame-high-house-prices-low-productivity-and-too-littleยฃ1 billion inheritance tax cut pledged: www.theguardian.com/money/2017/feb/28/tory-1bn-inheritance-tax-cut-will-worsen-north-south-divideSix million workers paid less than the living wage: www.bbc.com/news/uk-34691404Shelter: 1 in 5 adults suffer from mental health issues due to housing issues: : In 2013 the Red Cross had to start a campaign for food aid in Britain for the first time since WW2: www.bbc.com/news/uk-24487146On average workers families are set to be ยฃ1300 worse off this year: fullfact.org/economy/average-working-families-and-budget/By 2022 Conservatives will cut a combined ยฃ70 billion in corporation tax, capital gains tax, inheritance tax, and bank levies, yet they claim they need to make savings by not guaranteeing triple-lock pensions: press.labour.org.uk/post/158315410419/the-tories-70bn-tax-giveaways-to-the-super-richEducation and Schools More than 500,000 primary school pupils are taught in classes between 31 and 35 pupils: www.theguardian.com/education/2016/jan/15/primary-schools-oversize-classes-claims-labourMore than 40,000 primary children in classes over 36: www.educationbusinessuk.net/news/21042017/jeremy-corbyn-criticises-tories-over-overcrowded-classroomsMore than half of primary school teachers surveyed in a NUT poll said that pupils showed signs of holiday hunger, 39% of teachers said it affected more than a quarter of their pupils, 12% said it affected more than half, and 80% reported that holiday hunger increased over 2 years: www.teachers.org.uk/news-events/conference-2017/nut-survey-holiday-hungerFire Service 10,000 jobs axed and record fire station closures, fire prevention exercises have reduced by a quarter over 5 years, 13% less time on public safety initatives - 15% increase in fire-related deaths in 2015/16: www.writeyou.co.uk/dangerous_tory_cuts_to_our_fire_rescue_service_need_to_endCarers Carers only get ยฃ62.70 a week, and ยฃ4.6 billion have been cut from council care budgets from 2009-2015 NHS 20 hospitals declared a black alert in January: www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jan/11/nhs-crisis-20-hospitals-declare-black-alert-as-patient-safety-no-longer-assuredThe Red Cross declared the NHS was in humanitarian crisis in January: www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jan/06/nhs-faces-humanitarian-crisis-rising-demand-british-red-crossAround 1000 NHS England patients waited more than 12 hours on a trolley this January, compared to just 17 in Jan 2011: news.sky.com/story/worst-month-on-record-for-ae-waiting-times-10795364There's been a 504% increase of patients waiting over four hours since Jan 2011: news.sky.com/story/worst-month-on-record-for-ae-waiting-times-10795364A&E diverts up 86% on last winter Over 4000 urgent operations were cancelled last year, up 27% in two years: www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jan/27/record-number-urgent-operations-cancelled-hospitals-england-2016Knee and hip operations are "rationed" for only those who can't sleep because of the pain: www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/26/hip-operations-much-pain-cant-sleep-new-nhs-rationing-plans/The rules on how much the NHS could pay agency staff is breached 50,000 times a week because of staff shortages: www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-36341285Applications for nursing degrees are down 23% on September 2016 applications because nursing bursaries have been scrapped: www.ucas.com/corporate/news-and-key-documents/news/applicants-uk-higher-education-down-5-uk-students-and-7-eu-studentsHalf of junior doctors chose not to progress to specialty training last year: careers.bmj.com/careers/advice/Half+of+foundation+trainees+now+choose+not+to+progress+straight+to+specialty+trainingNHS staff suffering pay cuts: www.independent.co.uk/news/nhs-staff-pay-cut-one-per-cent-rise-health-workers-doctors-dentists-nurses-midwives-a7654251.htmlPrivate contracting has doubled from ยฃ4 billion to ยฃ8 billion since 2010: www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-37087304Still, the Tories continue to cut ยฃ22 billion by 2020: m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/uk_58322fcae4b09025ba32a16bEven though the ยฃ15 billion in corporation tax cuts the Tories are enacting would be enough to train 10,000 teachers, 10,000 police officers, and 12,000 nurses full time every year for a decade: press.labour.org.uk/post/155290716819/tory-cuts-to-corporation-tax-worth-15-billion |
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rebate
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,050
๐๐ป 961
January 2018
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Brexit
Oct 14, 2018 13:21:50 GMT 1
Brexit, by rebate on Oct 14, 2018 13:21:50 GMT 1, yeah well, thats a great but utterly false premise right there. The same and usual one that taints anyone trying to do better for everyone. Tuition being free means a lot more of the best people will be able to afford education rather than just the rich no matter what level of inteligence they have. Thats of course, better for the economy so a value added situation. Same thing for UBI, better health, less mental illness due to stress, less pressure on services, less need to give your least in as**t job you hate, the ability to perfect what you are best at and enjoy therefore better productivity, less drug use, less crime etc etc. Public ownership is another one that gets misrepresented as spending never ending money, its not, its buying an assett that will make peoples lives better and generate a future revenue. But you keep up that twisted short term, short sighted small picture thinking process. We have had one election day since Corbyn took over, and he hadnt found his feet yet and was still being smashed about in the press, in front of people who didnt really know who he was. The next election will be a different story, and then the polls you relly on so much, will probably look even less viable than they did the last 2 times. Swampy you are going to give yourself a pull
yeah well, thats a great but utterly false premise right there. The same and usual one that taints anyone trying to do better for everyone. Tuition being free means a lot more of the best people will be able to afford education rather than just the rich no matter what level of inteligence they have. Thats of course, better for the economy so a value added situation. Same thing for UBI, better health, less mental illness due to stress, less pressure on services, less need to give your least in as**t job you hate, the ability to perfect what you are best at and enjoy therefore better productivity, less drug use, less crime etc etc. Public ownership is another one that gets misrepresented as spending never ending money, its not, its buying an assett that will make peoples lives better and generate a future revenue. But you keep up that twisted short term, short sighted small picture thinking process. We have had one election day since Corbyn took over, and he hadnt found his feet yet and was still being smashed about in the press, in front of people who didnt really know who he was. The next election will be a different story, and then the polls you relly on so much, will probably look even less viable than they did the last 2 times. Swampy you are going to give yourself a pull Is this really the crutch that props up your poor self worth? How sad. |
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rebate
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,050
๐๐ป 961
January 2018
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Brexit
Oct 14, 2018 13:25:01 GMT 1
Brexit, by rebate on Oct 14, 2018 13:25:01 GMT 1, yeah well, thats a great but utterly false premise right there. The same and usual one that taints anyone trying to do better for everyone. Tuition being free means a lot more of the best people will be able to afford education rather than just the rich no matter what level of inteligence they have. Thats of course, better for the economy so a value added situation. Same thing for UBI, better health, less mental illness due to stress, less pressure on services, less need to give your least in as**t job you hate, the ability to perfect what you are best at and enjoy therefore better productivity, less drug use, less crime etc etc. Public ownership is another one that gets misrepresented as spending never ending money, its not, its buying an assett that will make peoples lives better and generate a future revenue. But you keep up that twisted short term, short sighted small picture thinking process. We have had one election day since Corbyn took over, and he hadnt found his feet yet and was still being smashed about in the press, in front of people who didnt really know who he was. The next election will be a different story, and then the polls you relly on so much, will probably look even less viable than they did the last 2 times. I'm sorry but you are talking complete rot. " Tuition being free means a lot more of the best people will be able to afford education rather than just the rich". Untrue. At present you can attend university and if you don't get a high paid job at the end of it you never have to pay back your tuition fees. This actually helps poor people more than rich people who will always find a job anyway (due to the old boys network) and will therefore have to pay back their tuition fees regardless. You are also forgetting that "free tuition" actually has to be paid by someone, i.e. tax from people (including the less well off) who are not going to uni and don't get the benefits of a higher education. " ...less need to give your least in as**t job you hate". That depends more on personal motivation than government policies. And, as we all know, the Tories are the ones who encourage growth and productivity, not Labour. Incidentally, we still need people to do s**t jobs whoever is in power. Some people are quite happy to simply go to work and stack shelves at Tesco all day. Like I said, it's about motivation. "Public ownership is another one that gets misrepresented as spending never ending money, its not, its buying an assett that will make peoples lives better and generate a future revenue." And yet, historically, that hasn't happened. Socialists need to get out of this habit of thinking public ownership automatically = good and private ownership automatically = bad. It's often the other way round. I am old enough to remember when all the train were in public ownership. I used to travel to work everyday on a train where nobody could sit down because the seats had all been vandalised with the springs poking up out of them and there was no money to replace them. With the uncertainty surrounding Brexit and our future prosperity, when times are hard the first thing that will be ignored will be the upkeep of public companies and replacing train seats with new ones. I am deeply concerned that if the railways are put back in to pubic ownership they will go back to the bad old days I can too easily remember. "We have had one election day since Corbyn took over, and he hadn't found his feet". He has been in politics long enough. How long does he need to "find his feet"? He was expecting huge gains and a probable victory at the last general election (and the local elections)...and he didn't get it. He tried to put a positive spin on things but the fact of the matter is that the UK public do not respond well to his type of socialism. I suspect the next general election will not see his popularity increase at all. I think it will either plateau or even decrease. He is not as popular as he thinks he is. He can't even beat the most unpopular Tory leader since Thatcher.
yeah well, thats a great but utterly false premise right there. The same and usual one that taints anyone trying to do better for everyone. Tuition being free means a lot more of the best people will be able to afford education rather than just the rich no matter what level of inteligence they have. Thats of course, better for the economy so a value added situation. Same thing for UBI, better health, less mental illness due to stress, less pressure on services, less need to give your least in as**t job you hate, the ability to perfect what you are best at and enjoy therefore better productivity, less drug use, less crime etc etc. Public ownership is another one that gets misrepresented as spending never ending money, its not, its buying an assett that will make peoples lives better and generate a future revenue. But you keep up that twisted short term, short sighted small picture thinking process. We have had one election day since Corbyn took over, and he hadnt found his feet yet and was still being smashed about in the press, in front of people who didnt really know who he was. The next election will be a different story, and then the polls you relly on so much, will probably look even less viable than they did the last 2 times. I'm sorry but you are talking complete rot. " Tuition being free means a lot more of the best people will be able to afford education rather than just the rich". Untrue. At present you can attend university and if you don't get a high paid job at the end of it you never have to pay back your tuition fees. This actually helps poor people more than rich people who will always find a job anyway (due to the old boys network) and will therefore have to pay back their tuition fees regardless. You are also forgetting that "free tuition" actually has to be paid by someone, i.e. tax from people (including the less well off) who are not going to uni and don't get the benefits of a higher education. " ...less need to give your least in as**t job you hate". That depends more on personal motivation than government policies. And, as we all know, the Tories are the ones who encourage growth and productivity, not Labour. Incidentally, we still need people to do s**t jobs whoever is in power. Some people are quite happy to simply go to work and stack shelves at Tesco all day. Like I said, it's about motivation. "Public ownership is another one that gets misrepresented as spending never ending money, its not, its buying an assett that will make peoples lives better and generate a future revenue." And yet, historically, that hasn't happened. Socialists need to get out of this habit of thinking public ownership automatically = good and private ownership automatically = bad. It's often the other way round. I am old enough to remember when all the train were in public ownership. I used to travel to work everyday on a train where nobody could sit down because the seats had all been vandalised with the springs poking up out of them and there was no money to replace them. With the uncertainty surrounding Brexit and our future prosperity, when times are hard the first thing that will be ignored will be the upkeep of public companies and replacing train seats with new ones. I am deeply concerned that if the railways are put back in to pubic ownership they will go back to the bad old days I can too easily remember. "We have had one election day since Corbyn took over, and he hadn't found his feet". He has been in politics long enough. How long does he need to "find his feet"? He was expecting huge gains and a probable victory at the last general election (and the local elections)...and he didn't get it. He tried to put a positive spin on things but the fact of the matter is that the UK public do not respond well to his type of socialism. I suspect the next general election will not see his popularity increase at all. I think it will either plateau or even decrease. He is not as popular as he thinks he is. He can't even beat the most unpopular Tory leader since Thatcher. Sticking with short sighted small picture thinking then. Just wrapping it up in a lot of pointless extra words. |
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