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Brexit
Feb 2, 2020 4:28:34 GMT 1
Brexit, by pfffffffffft on Feb 2, 2020 4:28:34 GMT 1, US citizen here. Up front I say the US political system is a mess and I probably have no right to chime in on your mess but...I find it unusual that in the UK the majority of a minority gets to be prime minister. Because your political system is so splintered you could have the "Elephants in Funny Hats" party get enough votes to be in charge but not really have enough support of the overall population to have a mandate to make all elephants wear funny hats which basically deadlocks the PMs agenda. That said... The problem with your "democratic" vote three years ago are the same problems we had in the US in 2016. Your brexiteers lied to the voters, numerous times. Documented. Foreign interference in your election. Seems there's quite a lot of smoke on that one but unsurprising considering what happened in our US elections. So, was it a free and fair election when the voters were manipulated and lied to? It’s only not a free and fair election when the vote doesn’t go your way
No. Not at all.
I can speak to the US and we had ads placed by the Russians that reached over 126 million people. That's 40% of the population:
www.thedailybeast.com/facebook-russian-ads-reached-126-million-us-accounts
The ads were illegal in the US because foreign governments are not allowed to influence our elections and all monies spent for political purposes must be accounted for as campaign contributions.
Oh and I forgot to mention all of the elections systems the Russians breached in the US:
www.thedailybeast.com/russia-breached-39-states-in-election-hack
These laws are in place for a reason. So again, is it a free and fair election under those circumstances? Much of these circumstances apply to the Brexit referendum, was that free and fair or was it manipulated by actors with agendas not in the best interest of the UK?
US citizen here. Up front I say the US political system is a mess and I probably have no right to chime in on your mess but...I find it unusual that in the UK the majority of a minority gets to be prime minister. Because your political system is so splintered you could have the "Elephants in Funny Hats" party get enough votes to be in charge but not really have enough support of the overall population to have a mandate to make all elephants wear funny hats which basically deadlocks the PMs agenda. That said... The problem with your "democratic" vote three years ago are the same problems we had in the US in 2016. Your brexiteers lied to the voters, numerous times. Documented. Foreign interference in your election. Seems there's quite a lot of smoke on that one but unsurprising considering what happened in our US elections. So, was it a free and fair election when the voters were manipulated and lied to? It’s only not a free and fair election when the vote doesn’t go your way No. Not at all. I can speak to the US and we had ads placed by the Russians that reached over 126 million people. That's 40% of the population: www.thedailybeast.com/facebook-russian-ads-reached-126-million-us-accountsThe ads were illegal in the US because foreign governments are not allowed to influence our elections and all monies spent for political purposes must be accounted for as campaign contributions. Oh and I forgot to mention all of the elections systems the Russians breached in the US: www.thedailybeast.com/russia-breached-39-states-in-election-hackThese laws are in place for a reason. So again, is it a free and fair election under those circumstances? Much of these circumstances apply to the Brexit referendum, was that free and fair or was it manipulated by actors with agendas not in the best interest of the UK? |
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teabaggins
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Brexit
Feb 2, 2020 4:57:57 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by teabaggins on Feb 2, 2020 4:57:57 GMT 1, If you foolish folk had respected the democratic vote 3 years ago you could have saved the country and yourselves a lot of time and a hell of a lot more money. US citizen here. Up front I say the US political system is a mess and I probably have no right to chime in on your mess but...I find it unusual that in the UK the majority of a minority gets to be prime minister. Because your political system is so splintered you could have the "Elephants in Funny Hats" party get enough votes to be in charge but not really have enough support of the overall population to have a mandate to make all elephants wear funny hats which basically deadlocks the PMs agenda. That said... The problem with your "democratic" vote three years ago are the same problems we had in the US in 2016. Your brexiteers lied to the voters, numerous times. Documented. Foreign interference in your election. Seems there's quite a lot of smoke on that one but unsurprising considering what happened in our US elections. So, was it a free and fair election when the voters were manipulated and lied to?
Can you speak to a “free and fair election” where voters weren’t manipulated and lied to? Like it or don’t like it but that’s politics.
If you foolish folk had respected the democratic vote 3 years ago you could have saved the country and yourselves a lot of time and a hell of a lot more money. US citizen here. Up front I say the US political system is a mess and I probably have no right to chime in on your mess but...I find it unusual that in the UK the majority of a minority gets to be prime minister. Because your political system is so splintered you could have the "Elephants in Funny Hats" party get enough votes to be in charge but not really have enough support of the overall population to have a mandate to make all elephants wear funny hats which basically deadlocks the PMs agenda. That said... The problem with your "democratic" vote three years ago are the same problems we had in the US in 2016. Your brexiteers lied to the voters, numerous times. Documented. Foreign interference in your election. Seems there's quite a lot of smoke on that one but unsurprising considering what happened in our US elections. So, was it a free and fair election when the voters were manipulated and lied to? Can you speak to a “free and fair election” where voters weren’t manipulated and lied to? Like it or don’t like it but that’s politics. |
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overend
New Member
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Brexit
Feb 2, 2020 7:10:09 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by overend on Feb 2, 2020 7:10:09 GMT 1, US citizen here. Up front I say the US political system is a mess and I probably have no right to chime in on your mess but...I find it unusual that in the UK the majority of a minority gets to be prime minister. Because your political system is so splintered you could have the "Elephants in Funny Hats" party get enough votes to be in charge but not really have enough support of the overall population to have a mandate to make all elephants wear funny hats which basically deadlocks the PMs agenda. That said... The problem with your "democratic" vote three years ago are the same problems we had in the US in 2016. Your brexiteers lied to the voters, numerous times. Documented. Foreign interference in your election. Seems there's quite a lot of smoke on that one but unsurprising considering what happened in our US elections. So, was it a free and fair election when the voters were manipulated and lied to? Can you speak to a “free and fair election” where voters weren’t manipulated and lied to? Like it or don’t like it but that’s politics.
Totally different when it’s a hostile country involved on an industrial scale. That is not politics.
US citizen here. Up front I say the US political system is a mess and I probably have no right to chime in on your mess but...I find it unusual that in the UK the majority of a minority gets to be prime minister. Because your political system is so splintered you could have the "Elephants in Funny Hats" party get enough votes to be in charge but not really have enough support of the overall population to have a mandate to make all elephants wear funny hats which basically deadlocks the PMs agenda. That said... The problem with your "democratic" vote three years ago are the same problems we had in the US in 2016. Your brexiteers lied to the voters, numerous times. Documented. Foreign interference in your election. Seems there's quite a lot of smoke on that one but unsurprising considering what happened in our US elections. So, was it a free and fair election when the voters were manipulated and lied to? Can you speak to a “free and fair election” where voters weren’t manipulated and lied to? Like it or don’t like it but that’s politics. Totally different when it’s a hostile country involved on an industrial scale. That is not politics. |
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FЯ
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Brexit
Feb 2, 2020 9:56:57 GMT 1
Brexit, by FЯ on Feb 2, 2020 9:56:57 GMT 1, Can you speak to a “free and fair election” where voters weren’t manipulated and lied to? Like it or don’t like it but that’s politics. Totally different when it’s a hostile country involved on an industrial scale. That is not politics.
Can you speak to a “free and fair election” where voters weren’t manipulated and lied to? Like it or don’t like it but that’s politics. Totally different when it’s a hostile country involved on an industrial scale. That is not politics. Something like a quarter of people who voted for brexit are now dead. |
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Brexit
Feb 2, 2020 10:25:34 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by churchwood on Feb 2, 2020 10:25:34 GMT 1, Totally different when it’s a hostile country involved on an industrial scale. That is not politics. Something like a quarter of people who voted for brexit are now dead.
If Mr bingo makes a new tea towel, it will be like the Bayeaux Tapestry
Totally different when it’s a hostile country involved on an industrial scale. That is not politics. Something like a quarter of people who voted for brexit are now dead. If Mr bingo makes a new tea towel, it will be like the Bayeaux Tapestry |
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Brexit
Feb 2, 2020 10:49:29 GMT 1
Brexit, by Daniel Silk on Feb 2, 2020 10:49:29 GMT 1, Totally different when it’s a hostile country involved on an industrial scale. That is not politics. Something like a quarter of people who voted for brexit are now dead.
Totally different when it’s a hostile country involved on an industrial scale. That is not politics. Something like a quarter of people who voted for brexit are now dead. If true, it certainly sounds like it justifies a Police investigation. I would never have thought the Leave voters would turn to such extreme measures 😳 |
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.dappy
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Brexit
Feb 2, 2020 11:35:10 GMT 1
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Brexit, by .dappy on Feb 2, 2020 11:35:10 GMT 1, Totally different when it’s a hostile country involved on an industrial scale. That is not politics. Something like a quarter of people who voted for brexit are now dead.
... so 4 million people who voted Brexit have died in 3 years ... LOL ... the average death rate for the whole of the UK is 0.5m per annum ...
Totally different when it’s a hostile country involved on an industrial scale. That is not politics. Something like a quarter of people who voted for brexit are now dead. ... so 4 million people who voted Brexit have died in 3 years ... LOL ... the average death rate for the whole of the UK is 0.5m per annum ... |
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Lazarus II
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Brexit
Feb 2, 2020 11:51:23 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by Lazarus II on Feb 2, 2020 11:51:23 GMT 1, Something like a quarter of people who voted for brexit are now dead. ... so 4 million people who voted Brexit have died in 3 years ... LOL ... the average death rate for the whole of the UK is 0.5m per annum ...
i think maybe he meant that leave voters are brain dead.
Something like a quarter of people who voted for brexit are now dead. ... so 4 million people who voted Brexit have died in 3 years ... LOL ... the average death rate for the whole of the UK is 0.5m per annum ... i think maybe he meant that leave voters are brain dead. |
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Guy Denning
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Brexit
Feb 2, 2020 11:58:42 GMT 1
Brexit, by Guy Denning on Feb 2, 2020 11:58:42 GMT 1, Something like a quarter of people who voted for brexit are now dead. If true, it certainly sounds like it justifies a Police investigation. I would never have thought the Leave voters would turn to such extreme measures 😳
"A separate investigation into Leave.EU, launched by the National Crime Agency in November 2018 following a referral from the Electoral Commission into suspected electoral law offences, is still ongoing."
uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-investigation/investigation-dropped-into-leave-eus-brexit-spending-idUKKCN1VY1EU
In October the Conservative MP Damian Collins asked the Met why it had not opened a formal investigation into the allegations, following reports the force had delayed the process due to “political sensitivities”.
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jun/19/mps-take-met-to-court-over-leave-campaign-investigation-delays
And that's before we get into the shelved/buried Russian report...
Something like a quarter of people who voted for brexit are now dead. If true, it certainly sounds like it justifies a Police investigation. I would never have thought the Leave voters would turn to such extreme measures 😳 “It is clear that whilst some technical breaches of electoral law were committed by Leave.EU in respect of the spending return submitted for their campaign, there is insufficient evidence to justify any further criminal investigation,” police said. "A separate investigation into Leave.EU, launched by the National Crime Agency in November 2018 following a referral from the Electoral Commission into suspected electoral law offences, is still ongoing." uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-investigation/investigation-dropped-into-leave-eus-brexit-spending-idUKKCN1VY1EUIn October the Conservative MP Damian Collins asked the Met why it had not opened a formal investigation into the allegations, following reports the force had delayed the process due to “political sensitivities”. www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jun/19/mps-take-met-to-court-over-leave-campaign-investigation-delaysAnd that's before we get into the shelved/buried Russian report... |
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Lazarus II
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Brexit
Feb 2, 2020 12:09:52 GMT 1
via mobile
Remember posts like this lol almost as funny as the first post on this thread, lol.... |
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denzil
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Brexit
Feb 2, 2020 12:24:13 GMT 1
Brexit, by denzil on Feb 2, 2020 12:24:13 GMT 1, Something like a quarter of people who voted for brexit are now dead. ... so 4 million people who voted Brexit have died in 3 years ... LOL ... the average death rate for the whole of the UK is 0.5m per annum ...
Something like a quarter of people who voted for brexit are now dead. ... so 4 million people who voted Brexit have died in 3 years ... LOL ... the average death rate for the whole of the UK is 0.5m per annum ... Approximately 1'120'000 m |
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ferg
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Brexit
Feb 2, 2020 12:30:40 GMT 1
Brexit, by ferg on Feb 2, 2020 12:30:40 GMT 1, Both sides need a deal of course it will, and if your hanging up your hat on the utterly useless leader of the opposition then I feel sorry for you he’s worse than Kinnock and Foot combined. To all the remoaners and Labour supporters who are so negative about the UKs future I told you so.
Both sides need a deal of course it will, and if your hanging up your hat on the utterly useless leader of the opposition then I feel sorry for you he’s worse than Kinnock and Foot combined. To all the remoaners and Labour supporters who are so negative about the UKs future I told you so. Boris got it done we’re out move on get behind the country and buy British .Good luck to Germany France and Italy carrying the rest. |
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Brexit
Feb 2, 2020 12:44:02 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by Daylight Robber on Feb 2, 2020 12:44:02 GMT 1, To all the remoaners and Labour supporters who are so negative about the UKs future I told you so. Boris got it done we’re out move on get behind the country and buy British .Good luck to Germany France and Italy carrying the rest.
A few things.....
There's a negativity about the country's future because pretty much every economic expert has advised that we will be financially worse off. What kind of idiot wants that?
Boris has got a long way to go yet. We've agreed virtually nothing yet other than leaving a union which will abide by many of the rules of, without having any say in them.
Buy British what? We don't produce enough of anything!
You seem to imply that the UK were carrying others. Being in the EU gave the UK advantages in those countries to see a good return on our investment. France and Germany may take a while to readjust but I'm sure they'll take advantage of where we've just shot ourselves in the foot.
To all the remoaners and Labour supporters who are so negative about the UKs future I told you so. Boris got it done we’re out move on get behind the country and buy British .Good luck to Germany France and Italy carrying the rest. A few things..... There's a negativity about the country's future because pretty much every economic expert has advised that we will be financially worse off. What kind of idiot wants that? Boris has got a long way to go yet. We've agreed virtually nothing yet other than leaving a union which will abide by many of the rules of, without having any say in them. Buy British what? We don't produce enough of anything! You seem to imply that the UK were carrying others. Being in the EU gave the UK advantages in those countries to see a good return on our investment. France and Germany may take a while to readjust but I'm sure they'll take advantage of where we've just shot ourselves in the foot. |
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FЯ
Full Member
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Brexit
Feb 2, 2020 12:55:48 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by FЯ on Feb 2, 2020 12:55:48 GMT 1, Boris got it done we’re out move on get behind the country and buy British .Good luck to Germany France and Italy carrying the rest. A few things..... There's a negativity about the country's future because pretty much every economic expert has advised that we will be financially worse off. What kind of idiot wants that? Boris has got a long way to go yet. We've agreed virtually nothing yet other than leaving a union which will abide by many of the rules of, without having any say in them. Buy British what? We don't produce enough of anything! You seem to imply that the UK were carrying others. Being in the EU gave the UK advantages in those countries to see a good return on our investment. France and Germany may take a while to readjust but I'm sure they'll take advantage of where we've just shot ourselves in the foot.
Boris did his job and ‘left’
However nothing will change until the transition is approved which could take 10 years despite a law in place. Its all smoke and mirrors to appease
Boris got it done we’re out move on get behind the country and buy British .Good luck to Germany France and Italy carrying the rest. A few things..... There's a negativity about the country's future because pretty much every economic expert has advised that we will be financially worse off. What kind of idiot wants that? Boris has got a long way to go yet. We've agreed virtually nothing yet other than leaving a union which will abide by many of the rules of, without having any say in them. Buy British what? We don't produce enough of anything! You seem to imply that the UK were carrying others. Being in the EU gave the UK advantages in those countries to see a good return on our investment. France and Germany may take a while to readjust but I'm sure they'll take advantage of where we've just shot ourselves in the foot. Boris did his job and ‘left’ However nothing will change until the transition is approved which could take 10 years despite a law in place. Its all smoke and mirrors to appease |
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Guy Denning
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Brexit
Feb 2, 2020 13:37:54 GMT 1
Brexit, by Guy Denning on Feb 2, 2020 13:37:54 GMT 1, Boris did his job and ‘left’ However nothing will change until the transition is approved which could take 10 years despite a law in place. Its all smoke and mirrors to appease
It's either going to be very short and messy for a very long time because the Borisites will continue to pander to the ERG (who've been in existence for a quarter of a century but still don't have a plan). Or just very long and messy if they decide they DO need to work with the EU.
The EU will be treating the UK under the same framework as states that want to join the EU (but without the end point of being in the EU) It's the only way they can show preference to a state in trade talks under WTO restrictions.
It'll be Article 218. And every proposed agreement will have to be referred back to each of the 27 EU state governments for ratification. EU democracy eh? Who'd have thought it. Facts eh? Who'd have thought it...
www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/article-218
Boris did his job and ‘left’ However nothing will change until the transition is approved which could take 10 years despite a law in place. Its all smoke and mirrors to appease Agreed. It's either going to be very short and messy for a very long time because the Borisites will continue to pander to the ERG (who've been in existence for a quarter of a century but still don't have a plan). Or just very long and messy if they decide they DO need to work with the EU. The EU will be treating the UK under the same framework as states that want to join the EU (but without the end point of being in the EU) It's the only way they can show preference to a state in trade talks under WTO restrictions. It'll be Article 218. And every proposed agreement will have to be referred back to each of the 27 EU state governments for ratification. EU democracy eh? Who'd have thought it. Facts eh? Who'd have thought it... www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/article-218 |
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Guy Denning
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Brexit
Feb 2, 2020 13:41:23 GMT 1
Brexit, by Guy Denning on Feb 2, 2020 13:41:23 GMT 1, Only the 'shape of things to come' in the sense that these fucking fascist bastards think their bigotry is the voice of the majority - so they feel justified in shouting it to the world. I welcome their open attitude. Bringing the scum to the top of the fetid pond. We can skim it off easier.
Only the 'shape of things to come' in the sense that these fucking fascist bastards think their bigotry is the voice of the majority - so they feel justified in shouting it to the world. I welcome their open attitude. Bringing the scum to the top of the fetid pond. We can skim it off easier. |
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Brexit
Feb 2, 2020 13:43:14 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by Daylight Robber on Feb 2, 2020 13:43:14 GMT 1, Boris did his job and ‘left’ However nothing will change until the transition is approved which could take 10 years despite a law in place. Its all smoke and mirrors to appease Agreed. It's either going to be very short and messy for a very long time because the Borisites will continue to pander to the ERG (who've been in existence for a quarter of a century but still don't have a plan). Or just very long and messy if they decide they DO need to work with the EU. The EU will be treating the UK under the same framework as states that want to join the EU (but without the end point of being in the EU) It's the only way they can show preference to a state in trade talks under WTO restrictions. It'll be Article 218. And every proposed agreement will have to be referred back to each of the 27 EU state governments for ratification. EU democracy eh? Who'd have thought it. Facts eh? Who'd have thought it... www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/article-218
I find it difficult to believe that the EU won't be bending over backwards for the UK because they need us more than we need them!
Boris did his job and ‘left’ However nothing will change until the transition is approved which could take 10 years despite a law in place. Its all smoke and mirrors to appease Agreed. It's either going to be very short and messy for a very long time because the Borisites will continue to pander to the ERG (who've been in existence for a quarter of a century but still don't have a plan). Or just very long and messy if they decide they DO need to work with the EU. The EU will be treating the UK under the same framework as states that want to join the EU (but without the end point of being in the EU) It's the only way they can show preference to a state in trade talks under WTO restrictions. It'll be Article 218. And every proposed agreement will have to be referred back to each of the 27 EU state governments for ratification. EU democracy eh? Who'd have thought it. Facts eh? Who'd have thought it... www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/article-218I find it difficult to believe that the EU won't be bending over backwards for the UK because they need us more than we need them! |
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Guy Denning
Artist
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Brexit
Feb 2, 2020 14:00:05 GMT 1
Brexit, by Guy Denning on Feb 2, 2020 14:00:05 GMT 1, Agreed. It's either going to be very short and messy for a very long time because the Borisites will continue to pander to the ERG (who've been in existence for a quarter of a century but still don't have a plan). Or just very long and messy if they decide they DO need to work with the EU. The EU will be treating the UK under the same framework as states that want to join the EU (but without the end point of being in the EU) It's the only way they can show preference to a state in trade talks under WTO restrictions. It'll be Article 218. And every proposed agreement will have to be referred back to each of the 27 EU state governments for ratification. EU democracy eh? Who'd have thought it. Facts eh? Who'd have thought it... www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/article-218I find it difficult to believe that the EU won't be bending over backwards for the UK because they need us more than we need them!
But fuck my opinion I'm frequently told. I'm an artist so what could I bring to the debate... either that or I'm a member of the avocado-toast-munching, woke fucking snowflake Islington set liberal elite. I'm too old for politeness now. Bollocks to 'em all. There's a lot of s**t coming - and not just because of this tiny (in comparison) pissy puddle of xenophobic, post-colonial nationalism. This will be small beer in a few years time - and the UK will be on the outside of an organisation that can help lead some serious change.
Agreed. It's either going to be very short and messy for a very long time because the Borisites will continue to pander to the ERG (who've been in existence for a quarter of a century but still don't have a plan). Or just very long and messy if they decide they DO need to work with the EU. The EU will be treating the UK under the same framework as states that want to join the EU (but without the end point of being in the EU) It's the only way they can show preference to a state in trade talks under WTO restrictions. It'll be Article 218. And every proposed agreement will have to be referred back to each of the 27 EU state governments for ratification. EU democracy eh? Who'd have thought it. Facts eh? Who'd have thought it... www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/article-218I find it difficult to believe that the EU won't be bending over backwards for the UK because they need us more than we need them! Yeah - it's like the press (and many of its readers) getting excised over the fact that the EU is supporting one of its member states over its claims to Gibraltar against a state that's not now a member state. Who'd have thought it eh? Oh... people like me that read a little beyond the Times, Telegraph, Express, Sun, Mail etc... But fuck my opinion I'm frequently told. I'm an artist so what could I bring to the debate... either that or I'm a member of the avocado-toast-munching, woke fucking snowflake Islington set liberal elite. I'm too old for politeness now. Bollocks to 'em all. There's a lot of s**t coming - and not just because of this tiny (in comparison) pissy puddle of xenophobic, post-colonial nationalism. This will be small beer in a few years time - and the UK will be on the outside of an organisation that can help lead some serious change. |
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mojo
Junior Member
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Brexit
Feb 2, 2020 14:13:36 GMT 1
Brexit, by mojo on Feb 2, 2020 14:13:36 GMT 1, Remember posts like this lol
Congratulations on your "win". However its worth remembering that far more people in the UK voted against this nonsense than for it and it is far from 'done' yet.
Celebrate in haste and repent at leisure.
Remember posts like this lol Brilliant, I awake to a notification from UAA being mocked by warchetCongratulations on your "win". However its worth remembering that far more people in the UK voted against this nonsense than for it and it is far from 'done' yet. Celebrate in haste and repent at leisure. |
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mojo
Junior Member
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Brexit
Feb 2, 2020 14:59:47 GMT 1
Brexit, by mojo on Feb 2, 2020 14:59:47 GMT 1, If you foolish folk had respected the democratic vote 3 years ago you could have saved the country and yourselves a lot of time and a hell of a lot more money.
If you foolish folk had respected the democratic vote 3 years ago you could have saved the country and yourselves a lot of time and a hell of a lot more money. UGH? It was Johnson & the ERG that repeatedly voted against the deal, he even had to sack 23(?) members of his own cabinet to swing the vote in his favour ... in true dictator styleeeee. |
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mojo
Junior Member
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Brexit
Feb 2, 2020 15:04:41 GMT 1
Brexit, by mojo on Feb 2, 2020 15:04:41 GMT 1, I'm going to go out on a limb and say it won't improve. The loss of freedom of movement is a huge step backwards. You will have to wash your own car tomorrow
I'm going to go out on a limb and say it won't improve. The loss of freedom of movement is a huge step backwards. You will have to wash your own car tomorrow Do you even have the slightest regard for quite how insulting and offensive this reply is? |
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astarti
New Member
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Brexit
Feb 2, 2020 15:29:38 GMT 1
Brexit, by astarti on Feb 2, 2020 15:29:38 GMT 1, In view of the celebrations of the brextiteers it must be pointed out the fact that "Britain has left the EU", however a big event, it is also an illusion and a profound mistake. "Britain has started the process of leaving the EU, called a transitional period, and it will take at least one year and possibly two or three." Vocabulary details? Certainly not. This means that Britain remains in the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice, will regularly pay its contribution to the European budget and will continue to be subject to existing EU trade agreements. So what "independence" did UK gain yesterday? In fact, it lost since it has already rejected any involvement in the EU decision-making process.
Yes, OK you may say, but this is a "transitional stage" and by the end of it the UK will be truly "independent". That, however, depends on the outcome of the negotiations with the EU and the percentage of "independence" is not a given at all. After all, a British expression which we also use in Greece is the "devil is in the details", which Brexists forget, although it is absolutely true in this case. And most importantly: if no agreement is reached this year and no extension is requested, then we will have a HARD BREXIT, the possibility that was supposed to be avoided. In other words: the notion that "we have Brexit by agreement" is becoming another illusion! Nothing is done until its done. We have an long way to go.
In view of the celebrations of the brextiteers it must be pointed out the fact that "Britain has left the EU", however a big event, it is also an illusion and a profound mistake. "Britain has started the process of leaving the EU, called a transitional period, and it will take at least one year and possibly two or three." Vocabulary details? Certainly not. This means that Britain remains in the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice, will regularly pay its contribution to the European budget and will continue to be subject to existing EU trade agreements. So what "independence" did UK gain yesterday? In fact, it lost since it has already rejected any involvement in the EU decision-making process.
Yes, OK you may say, but this is a "transitional stage" and by the end of it the UK will be truly "independent". That, however, depends on the outcome of the negotiations with the EU and the percentage of "independence" is not a given at all. After all, a British expression which we also use in Greece is the "devil is in the details", which Brexists forget, although it is absolutely true in this case. And most importantly: if no agreement is reached this year and no extension is requested, then we will have a HARD BREXIT, the possibility that was supposed to be avoided. In other words: the notion that "we have Brexit by agreement" is becoming another illusion! Nothing is done until its done. We have an long way to go.
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mojo
Junior Member
🗨️ 2,187
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May 2014
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Brexit
Feb 2, 2020 15:31:00 GMT 1
Brexit, by mojo on Feb 2, 2020 15:31:00 GMT 1, Do you even have the slightest regard for quite how insulting and offensive this reply is? Dont get your knickers in such a twist babe relax a little its Sunday
Do you even have the slightest regard for quite how insulting and offensive this reply is? Dont get your knickers in such a twist babe relax a little its Sunday Xenophobic and a patronising sexist to boot, carry on embarrassing yourself...you're doing a great job. |
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Brexit
Feb 2, 2020 15:39:45 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by Daylight Robber on Feb 2, 2020 15:39:45 GMT 1, I find it difficult to believe that the EU won't be bending over backwards for the UK because they need us more than we need them! Is this sarcasm? The EU can live quite happily without taking any imports from the UK, I assure you. I'm not so sure about the UK though.
It's sarcasm. I couldn't agree with you more.
I find it difficult to believe that the EU won't be bending over backwards for the UK because they need us more than we need them! Is this sarcasm? The EU can live quite happily without taking any imports from the UK, I assure you. I'm not so sure about the UK though. It's sarcasm. I couldn't agree with you more. |
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teabaggins
New Member
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November 2018
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Brexit
Feb 2, 2020 16:32:04 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by teabaggins on Feb 2, 2020 16:32:04 GMT 1, Can you speak to a “free and fair election” where voters weren’t manipulated and lied to? Like it or don’t like it but that’s politics. Totally different when it’s a hostile country involved on an industrial scale. That is not politics.
So to summarize your point. Lying and manipulation is totally acceptable as long as it comes directly from your own government or candidates?
If it comes from anywhere else it makes things “totally different” somehow? That may make it “legal” but not the same as free and fair now is it?
At the end of the day it’s the same tactic that preys upon the same undereducated, weak minded, and easily influenced individuals. Organized religion has been at this for years. It’s not new and It won’t stop.
Until people (voters) begin to check their own facts and have an actual desire to shift their own personal biases vs look to confirm them, exactly where the lies and manipulation come from doesn’t really matter.
Can you speak to a “free and fair election” where voters weren’t manipulated and lied to? Like it or don’t like it but that’s politics. Totally different when it’s a hostile country involved on an industrial scale. That is not politics. So to summarize your point. Lying and manipulation is totally acceptable as long as it comes directly from your own government or candidates? If it comes from anywhere else it makes things “totally different” somehow? That may make it “legal” but not the same as free and fair now is it? At the end of the day it’s the same tactic that preys upon the same undereducated, weak minded, and easily influenced individuals. Organized religion has been at this for years. It’s not new and It won’t stop. Until people (voters) begin to check their own facts and have an actual desire to shift their own personal biases vs look to confirm them, exactly where the lies and manipulation come from doesn’t really matter. |
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Brexit
Feb 2, 2020 16:42:44 GMT 1
Brexit, by pfffffffffft on Feb 2, 2020 16:42:44 GMT 1, Totally different when it’s a hostile country involved on an industrial scale. That is not politics. So to summarize your point. Lying and manipulation is totally acceptable as long as it comes directly from your own government or candidates? If it comes from anywhere else it makes things “totally different” somehow? That may make it “legal” but not the same as free and fair now is it? At the end of the day it’s the same tactic that preys upon the same undereducated, weak minded, and easily influenced individuals. Organized religion has been at this for years. It’s not new and It won’t stop. Until people (voters) begin to check their own facts and have an actual desire to shift their own personal biases vs look to confirm them, exactly where the lies and manipulation come from doesn’t really matter.
I didn't see anywhere that it was said it was acceptable.
You're the one making the argument that it was free and fair because politicians lie all the time. My personal opinion, it was free but not necessarily fair.
The difference between politicians lying to get elected or to push their agendas through (theoretically anyway) is that politicians who lie typically are held accountable by their constituents whether by legal means or at the ballot box. Foreign governments are not. No one has gone in and bombed Russia over this. Countries have slapped some sanctions on them and that's about it.
When you have a foreign government interfering on an industrial scale the whole point is to deceive and do it in a way that's both wide reaching and undetectable. It was years before we discovered the extent of the Russian meddling and I don't think the public knows all of it. Again, their ads propping up one of the most destructive politicians to have ever been elected president reached 40% of US citizens. Worse, in our situation because the meddling elected the most corrupt and craven politician in my lifetime not only will there not be repercussions, there may be rewards for getting those politicians re-elected. Not only is there no deterrent to not do it again, instead it's encouraged by corrupt leaders.
People have confirmation bias so they tend to look to try and confirm things they want to believe or already believe which is why disinformation is so effective.
Totally different when it’s a hostile country involved on an industrial scale. That is not politics. So to summarize your point. Lying and manipulation is totally acceptable as long as it comes directly from your own government or candidates? If it comes from anywhere else it makes things “totally different” somehow? That may make it “legal” but not the same as free and fair now is it? At the end of the day it’s the same tactic that preys upon the same undereducated, weak minded, and easily influenced individuals. Organized religion has been at this for years. It’s not new and It won’t stop. Until people (voters) begin to check their own facts and have an actual desire to shift their own personal biases vs look to confirm them, exactly where the lies and manipulation come from doesn’t really matter. I didn't see anywhere that it was said it was acceptable. You're the one making the argument that it was free and fair because politicians lie all the time. My personal opinion, it was free but not necessarily fair. The difference between politicians lying to get elected or to push their agendas through (theoretically anyway) is that politicians who lie typically are held accountable by their constituents whether by legal means or at the ballot box. Foreign governments are not. No one has gone in and bombed Russia over this. Countries have slapped some sanctions on them and that's about it. When you have a foreign government interfering on an industrial scale the whole point is to deceive and do it in a way that's both wide reaching and undetectable. It was years before we discovered the extent of the Russian meddling and I don't think the public knows all of it. Again, their ads propping up one of the most destructive politicians to have ever been elected president reached 40% of US citizens. Worse, in our situation because the meddling elected the most corrupt and craven politician in my lifetime not only will there not be repercussions, there may be rewards for getting those politicians re-elected. Not only is there no deterrent to not do it again, instead it's encouraged by corrupt leaders. People have confirmation bias so they tend to look to try and confirm things they want to believe or already believe which is why disinformation is so effective. |
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overend
New Member
🗨️ 593
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October 2013
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Brexit
Feb 2, 2020 16:48:48 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by overend on Feb 2, 2020 16:48:48 GMT 1, Totally different when it’s a hostile country involved on an industrial scale. That is not politics. So to summarize your point. Lying and manipulation is totally acceptable as long as it comes directly from your own government or candidates? If it comes from anywhere else it makes things “totally different” somehow? That may make it “legal” but not the same as free and fair now is it? At the end of the day it’s the same tactic that preys upon the same undereducated, weak minded, and easily influenced individuals. Organized religion has been at this for years. It’s not new and It won’t stop. Until people (voters) begin to check their own facts and have an actual desire to shift their own personal biases vs look to confirm them, exactly where the lies and manipulation come from doesn’t really matter.
Where did I say that lying was acceptable? Perhaps check your facts and personal biases and stop the lies and manipulation.
Totally different when it’s a hostile country involved on an industrial scale. That is not politics. So to summarize your point. Lying and manipulation is totally acceptable as long as it comes directly from your own government or candidates? If it comes from anywhere else it makes things “totally different” somehow? That may make it “legal” but not the same as free and fair now is it? At the end of the day it’s the same tactic that preys upon the same undereducated, weak minded, and easily influenced individuals. Organized religion has been at this for years. It’s not new and It won’t stop. Until people (voters) begin to check their own facts and have an actual desire to shift their own personal biases vs look to confirm them, exactly where the lies and manipulation come from doesn’t really matter. Where did I say that lying was acceptable? Perhaps check your facts and personal biases and stop the lies and manipulation. |
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teabaggins
New Member
🗨️ 930
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November 2018
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Brexit
Feb 2, 2020 18:01:37 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by teabaggins on Feb 2, 2020 18:01:37 GMT 1, So to summarize your point. Lying and manipulation is totally acceptable as long as it comes directly from your own government or candidates? If it comes from anywhere else it makes things “totally different” somehow? That may make it “legal” but not the same as free and fair now is it? At the end of the day it’s the same tactic that preys upon the same undereducated, weak minded, and easily influenced individuals. Organized religion has been at this for years. It’s not new and It won’t stop. Until people (voters) begin to check their own facts and have an actual desire to shift their own personal biases vs look to confirm them, exactly where the lies and manipulation come from doesn’t really matter. Where did I say that lying was acceptable? Perhaps check your facts and personal biases and stop the lies and manipulation.
cool argument bro
So to summarize your point. Lying and manipulation is totally acceptable as long as it comes directly from your own government or candidates? If it comes from anywhere else it makes things “totally different” somehow? That may make it “legal” but not the same as free and fair now is it? At the end of the day it’s the same tactic that preys upon the same undereducated, weak minded, and easily influenced individuals. Organized religion has been at this for years. It’s not new and It won’t stop. Until people (voters) begin to check their own facts and have an actual desire to shift their own personal biases vs look to confirm them, exactly where the lies and manipulation come from doesn’t really matter. Where did I say that lying was acceptable? Perhaps check your facts and personal biases and stop the lies and manipulation. cool argument bro |
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Brexit
Feb 3, 2020 19:52:18 GMT 1
Brexit, by Bill Hicks on Feb 3, 2020 19:52:18 GMT 1, Journalists walked out of a Downing Street briefing on Johnson’s Brexit plans after the prime minister’s director of communications tried to restrict it to selected publications and broadcasters.
When political correspondents from various outlets arrived inside Number 10, they were asked their names and told to stand in two groups on opposite sides of the entrance hall.
Director of communications Lee Cain then invited those on one side to enter and told those on the other to leave.
All of the correspondents refused to take part in the event on those terms and left Number 10.
Journalists walked out of a Downing Street briefing on Johnson’s Brexit plans after the prime minister’s director of communications tried to restrict it to selected publications and broadcasters.
When political correspondents from various outlets arrived inside Number 10, they were asked their names and told to stand in two groups on opposite sides of the entrance hall.
Director of communications Lee Cain then invited those on one side to enter and told those on the other to leave.
All of the correspondents refused to take part in the event on those terms and left Number 10.
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Guy Denning
Artist
New Member
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July 2007
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Brexit
Feb 3, 2020 20:42:21 GMT 1
Brexit, by Guy Denning on Feb 3, 2020 20:42:21 GMT 1, Journalists walked out of a Downing Street briefing on Johnson’s Brexit plans after the prime minister’s director of communications tried to restrict it to selected publications and broadcasters. When political correspondents from various outlets arrived inside Number 10, they were asked their names and told to stand in two groups on opposite sides of the entrance hall. Director of communications Lee Cain then invited those on one side to enter and told those on the other to leave. All of the correspondents refused to take part in the event on those terms and left Number 10.
Journalists walked out of a Downing Street briefing on Johnson’s Brexit plans after the prime minister’s director of communications tried to restrict it to selected publications and broadcasters. When political correspondents from various outlets arrived inside Number 10, they were asked their names and told to stand in two groups on opposite sides of the entrance hall. Director of communications Lee Cain then invited those on one side to enter and told those on the other to leave. All of the correspondents refused to take part in the event on those terms and left Number 10. The arrogance of this new government is stunning. |
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