Pavoni
Artist
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September 2013
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David Shrigley - Be Nice, by Pavoni on Feb 19, 2018 1:18:14 GMT 1, Shitty experience with Counter Editions on this, attempting to buy Be Nice. Details for anyone who cares: Carted at 1800, checked email a few times for coupon. In that time saw price changed to 2,000. Absolute max I could afford. Carted at 2,000. Took about 90 seconds--2 minutes to fill out form. The price stayed at 2,000 on my screen (R side, ship & pay information on L side) entire time I filled out. Click pay, all good. Congratulations! Etc. Yay! Go to receipt to print screen shot for my records. 4,250 GBP !!! WTF!? Email them, unacceptable and impo$$ible. I agreed to our contracted price of 2,000 as was listed on your website during entire checkout process. Basically tell me they charged me 5,000 GBP tier, to fck myself at 2,000, and they will cancel the order. Is this SOP for tiered pricing? Behind the scenes and unbeknownst to buyer the price rises faster than meat in Caracas? Understand the concept, prices rise as orders come in. My order was in. Disappointed and somewhat furious about this. Any insight or experiences welcomed. The Terms and Conditions of the Counter Editions website address this situation under 'Pricing': countereditions.com/termsAt those times when we are experience [sic] high demand prices are subject to rapid change. As such the price for an edition already in your basket may change during the shopping and checkout process. The actual price payable is the price at which your order is accepted and confirmed.You will have accepted this provision when you clicked the box 'Agree to Terms and Conditions'. Whether it's legally enforceable is a separate matter. __________ Here, it wasn't a simple case of offer and acceptance. The offer at ยฃ2,000 looks to have been terminated โ revoked by Counter Editions minutes or seconds prior to its acceptance by you. [It's also arguable that this wasn't even an offer, but rather an invitation to treat.] What's noteworthy is the fact you appear to have had zero indication of the price jump (from ยฃ2,000 to ยฃ4,250) at the time you clicked the 'Place Order Now' box. That's messed up. An agreement cannot be entered into if one of the parties hasn't received communication of contractual terms having changed. Valid consent requires knowing what you're consenting to. Given the ambiguity, this would make an interesting legal case. I don't know how an English court would opine if you were seeking to enforce a sale for ยฃ2,000. The cancellation of your order and refund might already be deemed a sufficient remedy. __________ Legalities aside, your description indicates the Checkout system for Counter Editions is wholly inadequate. It's preposterous that a buyer discover how much they were charged for a purchase only after the funds have been debited from their account. However, I don't believe there's been dishonest intent by Counter Editions. So I wouldn't use your description of "predatory" when referring to the company's behaviour. "Unfair" seems more accurate to me. I'd be curious to hear the artist's feedback. Getting Shrig ley onside may be your best chance for achieving a satisfactory outcome. Good luck.
Always value your opinions and information, especially legal.
A well-balanced and clearly articulated reply.
Bonus appreciation for the (sic).
Shitty experience with Counter Editions on this, attempting to buy Be Nice. Details for anyone who cares: Carted at 1800, checked email a few times for coupon. In that time saw price changed to 2,000. Absolute max I could afford. Carted at 2,000. Took about 90 seconds--2 minutes to fill out form. The price stayed at 2,000 on my screen (R side, ship & pay information on L side) entire time I filled out. Click pay, all good. Congratulations! Etc. Yay! Go to receipt to print screen shot for my records. 4,250 GBP !!! WTF!? Email them, unacceptable and impo$$ible. I agreed to our contracted price of 2,000 as was listed on your website during entire checkout process. Basically tell me they charged me 5,000 GBP tier, to fck myself at 2,000, and they will cancel the order. Is this SOP for tiered pricing? Behind the scenes and unbeknownst to buyer the price rises faster than meat in Caracas? Understand the concept, prices rise as orders come in. My order was in. Disappointed and somewhat furious about this. Any insight or experiences welcomed. The Terms and Conditions of the Counter Editions website address this situation under 'Pricing': countereditions.com/termsAt those times when we are experience [sic] high demand prices are subject to rapid change. As such the price for an edition already in your basket may change during the shopping and checkout process. The actual price payable is the price at which your order is accepted and confirmed.You will have accepted this provision when you clicked the box 'Agree to Terms and Conditions'. Whether it's legally enforceable is a separate matter. __________ Here, it wasn't a simple case of offer and acceptance. The offer at ยฃ2,000 looks to have been terminated โ revoked by Counter Editions minutes or seconds prior to its acceptance by you. [It's also arguable that this wasn't even an offer, but rather an invitation to treat.] What's noteworthy is the fact you appear to have had zero indication of the price jump (from ยฃ2,000 to ยฃ4,250) at the time you clicked the 'Place Order Now' box. That's messed up. An agreement cannot be entered into if one of the parties hasn't received communication of contractual terms having changed. Valid consent requires knowing what you're consenting to. Given the ambiguity, this would make an interesting legal case. I don't know how an English court would opine if you were seeking to enforce a sale for ยฃ2,000. The cancellation of your order and refund might already be deemed a sufficient remedy. __________ Legalities aside, your description indicates the Checkout system for Counter Editions is wholly inadequate. It's preposterous that a buyer discover how much they were charged for a purchase only after the funds have been debited from their account. However, I don't believe there's been dishonest intent by Counter Editions. So I wouldn't use your description of "predatory" when referring to the company's behaviour. "Unfair" seems more accurate to me. I'd be curious to hear the artist's feedback. Getting Shrig ley onside may be your best chance for achieving a satisfactory outcome. Good luck. Thank you met . Always value your opinions and information, especially legal. A well-balanced and clearly articulated reply. Bonus appreciation for the (sic). |
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mrbagel
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 232
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December 2017
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David Shrigley - Be Nice, by mrbagel on Feb 19, 2018 5:51:35 GMT 1, Wondering if there was a glitch for your order.
I managed at a lower price point and I even sat and waited a bit for the code. Price went up a bit more in the cart. Annoying but visible.
Left it a little longer and checked out at the carted price.
Furthermore, I did sit and watch the prices for a little longer and I'm sure it took at least 10 minutes or more to go from ยฃ2,000 to over ยฃ4,000.
Again, I do wonder if you were just caught out by a glitch.
Wondering if there was a glitch for your order.
I managed at a lower price point and I even sat and waited a bit for the code. Price went up a bit more in the cart. Annoying but visible.
Left it a little longer and checked out at the carted price.
Furthermore, I did sit and watch the prices for a little longer and I'm sure it took at least 10 minutes or more to go from ยฃ2,000 to over ยฃ4,000.
Again, I do wonder if you were just caught out by a glitch.
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blerd
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,350
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November 2016
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David Shrigley - Be Nice, by blerd on Feb 19, 2018 9:36:49 GMT 1, I understand your annoyance. But I for one am glad that CE have a technology that can control the basket in realtime (although it must be visible).
There is nothing more frustrating than people "basketing" releases and not checking out.
This leads to items being "sold out" then not seconds, minutes and hours later.
I'm not saying this was your intention, but its clever piece of eCommerce tech.
I understand your annoyance. But I for one am glad that CE have a technology that can control the basket in realtime (although it must be visible).
There is nothing more frustrating than people "basketing" releases and not checking out.
This leads to items being "sold out" then not seconds, minutes and hours later.
I'm not saying this was your intention, but its clever piece of eCommerce tech.
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David Shrigley - Be Nice, by Happy Shopper on Feb 19, 2018 9:53:55 GMT 1, Just from a common sense point of view, for a tiered selling system to work online, they have to have a basket that changes price.
The tier goes up as people actually pay, not as they basket items.
Otherwise you could end up paying top tier only to have people not pay and the price drop back down again.
I'd love to see the complaints then!!! 
Just from a common sense point of view, for a tiered selling system to work online, they have to have a basket that changes price. The tier goes up as people actually pay, not as they basket items. Otherwise you could end up paying top tier only to have people not pay and the price drop back down again. I'd love to see the complaints then!!! |
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Gurn
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 894
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August 2007
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David Shrigley - Be Nice, by Gurn on Feb 19, 2018 10:00:05 GMT 1, I carted at entry price and thought I'd then have plenty of time to make payment so also waited for the code. When the price started to rise I bailed out of payment. All was clearly visible. Should've read the T&C's and would've moved faster.
I carted at entry price and thought I'd then have plenty of time to make payment so also waited for the code. When the price started to rise I bailed out of payment. All was clearly visible. Should've read the T&C's and would've moved faster.
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Flashback
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,240
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April 2016
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David Shrigley - Be Nice, by Flashback on Feb 19, 2018 10:09:27 GMT 1, Just from a common sense point of view, for a tiered selling system to work online, they have to have a basket that changes price. The tier goes up as people actually pay, not as they basket items. Otherwise you could end up paying top tier only to have people not pay and the price drop back down again. I'd love to see the complaints then!!!
www.skiddle.com/festivals/elrow-town-london/
Just from a common sense point of view, for a tiered selling system to work online, they have to have a basket that changes price. The tier goes up as people actually pay, not as they basket items. Otherwise you could end up paying top tier only to have people not pay and the price drop back down again. I'd love to see the complaints then!!! Skiddle do this so I always just keep refreshing for tickets until someone drops from their cart in order to get first release tickets. You can see it clearer on the page though. www.skiddle.com/festivals/elrow-town-london/ |
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Pavoni
Artist
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 460
๐๐ป 541
September 2013
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David Shrigley - Be Nice, by Pavoni on Feb 19, 2018 10:14:07 GMT 1, Good to hear informed opinions and experiences.
I had trouble with my Password. Pre-entered one was rejected. Did not expect need to enter one down after all the ship/bill details. Never bought from CE before.
When re-entered PW, the system had frozen; instead of overwriting the incorrect PW it added it like a polymer chain. Did this 2X. Tried a few times to delete and enter fresh. This probably took a (panicked) minute.
At no time did the visible price of 2,000 change. That was the shock and annoyance after all said and done.
I still have the email, so I know my 20% coupon came at 20:07 (Japan time).
By this point I had already carted and filled out info, having resigned myself to 2,000 GBP.
Only went back to check email as was waiting for PW form to unfreeze. So under 10 minutes.
Good to hear informed opinions and experiences.
I had trouble with my Password. Pre-entered one was rejected. Did not expect need to enter one down after all the ship/bill details. Never bought from CE before.
When re-entered PW, the system had frozen; instead of overwriting the incorrect PW it added it like a polymer chain. Did this 2X. Tried a few times to delete and enter fresh. This probably took a (panicked) minute.
At no time did the visible price of 2,000 change. That was the shock and annoyance after all said and done.
I still have the email, so I know my 20% coupon came at 20:07 (Japan time).
By this point I had already carted and filled out info, having resigned myself to 2,000 GBP.
Only went back to check email as was waiting for PW form to unfreeze. So under 10 minutes.
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Express Post
Junior Member
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January 2008
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David Shrigley - Be Nice, by Express Post on Feb 19, 2018 10:20:46 GMT 1, I guess the fairest way would be to work out the total value of the tiered edition and sell all the prints for the average value.
What's that, ยฃ3-4k? But will there be at least 125 people willing to pay this kind of money?
At the end of the day, it is a business, and they will do what it takes to remain profitable. Not all releases are winners, so the studio will sometimes need to milk a few releases to make up for a few losers.
What is incredible though is what a difference a month makes. Only in Jan were release prices ยฃ480, then come Feb ยฃ1,800.
I guess the fairest way would be to work out the total value of the tiered edition and sell all the prints for the average value.
What's that, ยฃ3-4k? But will there be at least 125 people willing to pay this kind of money?
At the end of the day, it is a business, and they will do what it takes to remain profitable. Not all releases are winners, so the studio will sometimes need to milk a few releases to make up for a few losers.
What is incredible though is what a difference a month makes. Only in Jan were release prices ยฃ480, then come Feb ยฃ1,800.
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David Shrigley - Be Nice, by Happy Shopper on Feb 19, 2018 10:46:00 GMT 1, I'm only guessing, but I think the reason this tiered system is done by traditional galleries, is to create their own rising prices / secondary market situation... in a world where editions are super slow to sell out.
POW and galleries in this scene never had that problem. EBay and flippers do the job for them... setting higher and higher prices for their artists' next releases.
I'm only guessing, but I think the reason this tiered system is done by traditional galleries, is to create their own rising prices / secondary market situation... in a world where editions are super slow to sell out.
POW and galleries in this scene never had that problem. EBay and flippers do the job for them... setting higher and higher prices for their artists' next releases.
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Gurn
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 894
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August 2007
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David Shrigley - Be Nice, by Gurn on Feb 19, 2018 11:01:33 GMT 1, I'm only guessing, but I think the reason this tiered system is done by traditional galleries, is to create their own rising prices / secondary market situation... in a world where editions are super slow to sell out. POW and galleries in this scene never had that problem. EBay and flippers do the job for them... setting higher and higher prices for their artists' next releases.
I'm only guessing, but I think the reason this tiered system is done by traditional galleries, is to create their own rising prices / secondary market situation... in a world where editions are super slow to sell out. POW and galleries in this scene never had that problem. EBay and flippers do the job for them... setting higher and higher prices for their artists' next releases. Exactly. The person who wants this on his/her wall has to take it on the chin, unfortunately. Tiered pricing means more money to the artist (and gallery/publisher) and less quick flips. If I love the piece, I'm happier in the knowledge that the artist gets my dosh, rather than an opportunist carpet-bagger on the secondary. |
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
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January 1970
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David Shrigley - Be Nice, by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 11:06:58 GMT 1, The tiered system is a wanky way to sell. It sets a huge undertone of resentment and elitism. Like saying "look at me, I am better then you, because I got it much cheaper". Whats so f**king ironic and moronic is, if any other gallery such as POW/Laz did this, they would get totally slated, because its soooo not "the street", but some c**t in a suit does it, its ok. It's not and you are all f**king lemmings if you condone it. Anyone who is trying to justify it is either getting ready to sell theirs or is one of those elitistย c**ts.
Its business, although im not a fan of the tiered system, i think theres better ways to do it. People however make a choice, theres no gun to their head. Theres always a reason for people to moan, pow selling off market to a select clientele gets plenty of complaints about elitism, laz and the invader release etc.
The tiered system is a wanky way to sell. It sets a huge undertone of resentment and elitism. Like saying "look at me, I am better then you, because I got it much cheaper". Whats so f**king ironic and moronic is, if any other gallery such as POW/Laz did this, they would get totally slated, because its soooo not "the street", but some c**t in a suit does it, its ok. It's not and you are all f**king lemmings if you condone it. Anyone who is trying to justify it is either getting ready to sell theirs or is one of those elitistย c**ts. Its business, although im not a fan of the tiered system, i think theres better ways to do it. People however make a choice, theres no gun to their head. Theres always a reason for people to moan, pow selling off market to a select clientele gets plenty of complaints about elitism, laz and the invader release etc. |
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lv90210
Junior Member
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January 2018
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David Shrigley - Be Nice, by lv90210 on Feb 19, 2018 11:29:56 GMT 1, There was no gun to anyone's head when they were paying ยฃ5.5k and maybe ยฃ6k.
There was no gun to anyone's head when they were paying ยฃ5.5k and maybe ยฃ6k.
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
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David Shrigley - Be Nice, by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 11:42:51 GMT 1, There was no gun to anyone's head when they were paying ยฃ5.5k and maybe ยฃ6k.
Its a choice, buy it or dont, support it or dont.
There was no gun to anyone's head when they were paying ยฃ5.5k and maybe ยฃ6k. Its a choice, buy it or dont, support it or dont. |
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rosac
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,894
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July 2015
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David Shrigley - Be Nice, by rosac on Feb 19, 2018 11:49:27 GMT 1, Honestly there was plenty of time to buy this at first tier
Honestly there was plenty of time to buy this at first tier
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Deleted
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January 1970
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David Shrigley - Be Nice, by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 12:05:20 GMT 1, Its business, although im not a fan of the tiered system, i think theres better ways to do it. People however make a choice, theres no gun to their head. Theres always a reason for people to moan, pow selling off market to a select clientele gets plenty of complaints about elitism, laz and the invader release etc. Behind closed doors and beyond the general release or at secondary market is one thing, but to do so during the checkout process thats a huge pisstake.ย As for creating a market for the artist, there are many other outlets for Shrigley's works and none of them operate a ponzi scheme. ย
Fair enough, cant argue with that. Does make more sense to have one price for all at release, know their clients better, whose least likely to buy for the sole purpose of quick resell. Demands there,look after supply and the market will after itself.
Its business, although im not a fan of the tiered system, i think theres better ways to do it. People however make a choice, theres no gun to their head. Theres always a reason for people to moan, pow selling off market to a select clientele gets plenty of complaints about elitism, laz and the invader release etc. Behind closed doors and beyond the general release or at secondary market is one thing, but to do so during the checkout process thats a huge pisstake.ย As for creating a market for the artist, there are many other outlets for Shrigley's works and none of them operate a ponzi scheme. ย Fair enough, cant argue with that. Does make more sense to have one price for all at release, know their clients better, whose least likely to buy for the sole purpose of quick resell. Demands there,look after supply and the market will after itself. |
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diarmid
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 831
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October 2017
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David Shrigley - Be Nice, by diarmid on Feb 19, 2018 14:45:18 GMT 1, David Shrigley's supports Tier Pricing that's why jealous gallery had no choice.
David Shrigley's supports Tier Pricing that's why jealous gallery had no choice.
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rosac
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,894
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July 2015
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David Shrigley - Be Nice, by rosac on Feb 19, 2018 16:39:58 GMT 1,
Iโd say he is not too worried about his potential customers who might potentially buy for ยฃ2k if he has genuine customers happy to buy at ยฃ5k... harsh but true
Iโd say he is not too worried about his potential customers who might potentially buy for ยฃ2k if he has genuine customers happy to buy at ยฃ5k... harsh but true |
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brycepen
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 477
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May 2017
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David Shrigley - Be Nice, by brycepen on Feb 19, 2018 16:42:16 GMT 1, David Shrigley's supports Tier Pricing that's why jealous gallery had no choice.
Sounds about right
David Shrigley's supports Tier Pricing that's why jealous gallery had no choice. Sounds about right |
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brycepen
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 477
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May 2017
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David Shrigley - Be Nice, by brycepen on Feb 19, 2018 16:43:43 GMT 1, Iโd say he is not too worried about his potential customers who might potentially buy for ยฃ2k if he has genuine customers happy to buy at ยฃ5k... harsh but true
Nobody likes the brutal honest truth. Someone had to say it.
Iโd say he is not too worried about his potential customers who might potentially buy for ยฃ2k if he has genuine customers happy to buy at ยฃ5k... harsh but true Nobody likes the brutal honest truth. Someone had to say it. |
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lv90210
Junior Member
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January 2018
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David Shrigley - Be Nice, by lv90210 on Feb 19, 2018 17:02:00 GMT 1, Shrigley to the moon......
Shrigley to the moon......
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
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January 1970
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David Shrigley - Be Nice, by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 17:09:25 GMT 1, Cheeky Fucking artists with their input into pricing and marketing
Know your station!!!!!!
Cheeky Fucking artists with their input into pricing and marketing
Know your station!!!!!!
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Art Fan 2011
Junior Member
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February 2012
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David Shrigley - Be Nice, by Art Fan 2011 on Feb 19, 2018 17:11:15 GMT 1, Shrigley to the moon......
What goes up must come down
Shrigley to the moon...... What goes up must come down |
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Fะฏ
Full Member
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May 2013
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David Shrigley - Be Nice, by Fะฏ on Feb 19, 2018 17:13:14 GMT 1, Shrigley to the moon...... What goes up must come down
Are you one of those that stands near the reduced section in tesco constantly during the evening?
Shrigley to the moon...... What goes up must come down Are you one of those that stands near the reduced section in tesco constantly during the evening? |
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lv90210
Junior Member
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January 2018
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David Shrigley - Be Nice, by lv90210 on Feb 19, 2018 17:17:18 GMT 1, You mean Iceland.
You mean Iceland.
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Art Fan 2011
Junior Member
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February 2012
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David Shrigley - Be Nice, by Art Fan 2011 on Feb 19, 2018 17:17:21 GMT 1, What goes up must come down Are you one of those that stands near the reduced section in tesco constantly during the evening?
Nah, that's for amateurs - time it just right and your in and out with the prizes, no waiting around lol
What goes up must come down Are you one of those that stands near the reduced section in tesco constantly during the evening? Nah, that's for amateurs - time it just right and your in and out with the prizes, no waiting around lol |
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robo
Junior Member
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November 2006
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David Shrigley - Be Nice, by robo on Feb 19, 2018 18:33:48 GMT 1, Anyone interested in swapping their Be Nice for my I AM CURRENTLY ON FIRE?
Anyone interested in swapping their Be Nice for my I AM CURRENTLY ON FIRE?
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whob1
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 186
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October 2016
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David Shrigley - Be Nice, by whob1 on Feb 19, 2018 23:52:00 GMT 1, Just an opinion and thought; the latest releases have been of very high quality, look amazing live, very likeable and wall friendly. Like Miller for example, humour on the walls apply to a lot of people. Many streetartist have more serious messages and becomes "heavier". No doubt Pejac is a lot more technically gifted, but a room where every piece has a lot of details can become very chaotic. The enviromental thing Pejac has, is something a lot of people care about, but not so sure everyone want that on their walls.
Just an opinion and thought; the latest releases have been of very high quality, look amazing live, very likeable and wall friendly. Like Miller for example, humour on the walls apply to a lot of people. Many streetartist have more serious messages and becomes "heavier". No doubt Pejac is a lot more technically gifted, but a room where every piece has a lot of details can become very chaotic. The enviromental thing Pejac has, is something a lot of people care about, but not so sure everyone want that on their walls.
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kfroms
Junior Member
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October 2011
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David Shrigley - Be Nice, by kfroms on Feb 20, 2018 22:07:38 GMT 1, Interesting looking on eBay for Shrigley stuff - not many sales since the rush to grab Be Nice on release. Suggests to me the secondary market for his work hasnโt seen a massive spike after all.... which is nice
I am actually surprised that, apart from the clown who listed his for 5k, not more have popped up.
Whats going on?
Where have all the flippers gone?
Interesting looking on eBay for Shrigley stuff - not many sales since the rush to grab Be Nice on release. Suggests to me the secondary market for his work hasnโt seen a massive spike after all.... which is nice I am actually surprised that, apart from the clown who listed his for 5k, not more have popped up. Whats going on? Where have all the flippers gone? |
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rosac
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,894
๐๐ป 1,538
July 2015
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David Shrigley - Be Nice, by rosac on Feb 20, 2018 23:54:16 GMT 1, Interesting looking on eBay for Shrigley stuff - not many sales since the rush to grab Be Nice on release. Suggests to me the secondary market for his work hasnโt seen a massive spike after all.... which is nice I am actually surprised that, apart from the clown who listed his for 5k, not more have popped up. Whats going on? Where have all the flippers gone?
Shrigley is not Martin Whatson
Interesting looking on eBay for Shrigley stuff - not many sales since the rush to grab Be Nice on release. Suggests to me the secondary market for his work hasnโt seen a massive spike after all.... which is nice I am actually surprised that, apart from the clown who listed his for 5k, not more have popped up. Whats going on? Where have all the flippers gone? Shrigley is not Martin Whatson |
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pippyt75
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,010
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March 2015
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David Shrigley - Be Nice, by pippyt75 on Feb 21, 2018 0:02:52 GMT 1, You can probably count on one hand the number of Life Is Fantatics that have come up for sale... Most of these will go into collections I think.
You can probably count on one hand the number of Life Is Fantatics that have come up for sale... Most of these will go into collections I think.
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