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Pest Control COA • Banksy Print Authentication, by Minecrafter on Mar 10, 2024 16:29:00 GMT 1, In the end, pest control is operating on Banksy's command. Especially when it comes to high valued originals.
Robin will always have to give the nod. There's staff that aren't qualified to identify works that were created before they even worked there. It's pure greed by Banksy and he's the one making the decisions.
In the end, pest control is operating on Banksy's command. Especially when it comes to high valued originals.
Robin will always have to give the nod. There's staff that aren't qualified to identify works that were created before they even worked there. It's pure greed by Banksy and he's the one making the decisions.
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Pest Control COA • Banksy Print Authentication, by Fluffy Pillow on Mar 10, 2024 17:44:59 GMT 1, In the end, pest control is operating on Banksy's command. Especially when it comes to high valued originals. Robin will always have to give the nod. There's staff that aren't qualified to identify works that were created before they even worked there. It's pure greed by Banksy and he's the one making the decisions.
In the end, pest control is operating on Banksy's command. Especially when it comes to high valued originals. Robin will always have to give the nod. There's staff that aren't qualified to identify works that were created before they even worked there. It's pure greed by Banksy and he's the one making the decisions. It was only a matter of time… seriously, unsubscribe for your own health and wellbeing. |
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Pest Control COA • Banksy Print Authentication, by Fuzzyduck121 on Mar 10, 2024 18:55:45 GMT 1, B isn’t greedy
He just doesn’t care
But the thing is, when it’s your name being protected and you are the one paying the wages you can’t simply sit in the boozer forever and pretend it isn’t happening
This is going to get pretty ugly in my view because well , I’m pretty sure the claim has merit which means there could be thousands of claims with merit
Lawyers will pounce on this
B isn’t greedy
He just doesn’t care
But the thing is, when it’s your name being protected and you are the one paying the wages you can’t simply sit in the boozer forever and pretend it isn’t happening
This is going to get pretty ugly in my view because well , I’m pretty sure the claim has merit which means there could be thousands of claims with merit
Lawyers will pounce on this
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mojo
Junior Member
🗨️ 2,193
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May 2014
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Pest Control COA • Banksy Print Authentication, by mojo on Mar 10, 2024 19:04:09 GMT 1, I think most people underestimate the logistics and amount of time it takes to trace a 20+year old print back to its original provenance without conclusive proof of original purchase. Pest Control probably get thousands of emails a day and 95% of them are no doubt hopeful chancers and or total bullshit. The article in the Guardian states that the print was 'acquired' through an estate sale so the particulars of its origin are vague to non existent to say the least. To assume you pay a small £50 fee and then expect the entire authentification process to revolve around just your particular print, that you have provided no evidence to support its authenticity is pretty naive. Items from estate sales are often 'flagged up' in general antique sales as provenance is often scarce. I can see why people get frustrated as it all seems so simple but I doubt it actually is. Get frustrated with all the fakers, scammers, clothes shops and greeting card companies that rip off the images...oh and Tories definitely get frustrated with them in fact just blame them...for everything.
I think most people underestimate the logistics and amount of time it takes to trace a 20+year old print back to its original provenance without conclusive proof of original purchase. Pest Control probably get thousands of emails a day and 95% of them are no doubt hopeful chancers and or total bullshit. The article in the Guardian states that the print was 'acquired' through an estate sale so the particulars of its origin are vague to non existent to say the least. To assume you pay a small £50 fee and then expect the entire authentification process to revolve around just your particular print, that you have provided no evidence to support its authenticity is pretty naive. Items from estate sales are often 'flagged up' in general antique sales as provenance is often scarce. I can see why people get frustrated as it all seems so simple but I doubt it actually is. Get frustrated with all the fakers, scammers, clothes shops and greeting card companies that rip off the images...oh and Tories definitely get frustrated with them in fact just blame them...for everything.
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Pest Control COA • Banksy Print Authentication, by Fuzzyduck121 on Mar 10, 2024 19:09:06 GMT 1, I have a family member who bought a print from POW in 2007
Has all emails and his credit card bill from that month
He’s never sold it or framed it
He sent a request for a cert a year and a half ago because he never requested one before and is still waiting
No arguments are justified here it’s simply poor management and lack of staff
Literally there is no argument
The whole , they have thousands of emails a day argument is nonsense
There is a small quantity of actual works and anyone with half a brain and knowledge of the artist could discount the majority in seconds
It’s a street piece , no
It’s not one of the 20/30 official prints , no
It’s a piece of memorabilia or a poster ,no
They literally don’t care
I love B and the work and I have no issue with them myself but it’s literally a fact that they don’t care
Pretty cool view on things but it does mean they will end up getting sued
I have a family member who bought a print from POW in 2007
Has all emails and his credit card bill from that month
He’s never sold it or framed it
He sent a request for a cert a year and a half ago because he never requested one before and is still waiting
No arguments are justified here it’s simply poor management and lack of staff
Literally there is no argument
The whole , they have thousands of emails a day argument is nonsense
There is a small quantity of actual works and anyone with half a brain and knowledge of the artist could discount the majority in seconds
It’s a street piece , no
It’s not one of the 20/30 official prints , no
It’s a piece of memorabilia or a poster ,no
They literally don’t care
I love B and the work and I have no issue with them myself but it’s literally a fact that they don’t care
Pretty cool view on things but it does mean they will end up getting sued
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Pest Control COA • Banksy Print Authentication, by oldtimer on Mar 10, 2024 19:28:55 GMT 1, I have a family member who bought a print from POW in 2007 Has all emails and his credit card bill from that month He’s never sold it or framed it He sent a request for a cert a year and a half ago because he never requested one before and is still waiting No arguments are justified here it’s simply poor management and lack of staff Literally there is no argument The whole , they have thousands of emails a day argument is nonsense There is a small quantity of actual works and anyone with half a brain and knowledge of the artist could discount the majority in seconds It’s a street piece , no It’s not one of the 20/30 official prints , no It’s a piece of memorabilia or a poster ,no They literally don’t care I love B and the work and I have no issue with them myself but it’s literally a fact that they don’t care Pretty cool view on things but it does mean they will end up getting sued
I have a family member who bought a print from POW in 2007 Has all emails and his credit card bill from that month He’s never sold it or framed it He sent a request for a cert a year and a half ago because he never requested one before and is still waiting No arguments are justified here it’s simply poor management and lack of staff Literally there is no argument The whole , they have thousands of emails a day argument is nonsense There is a small quantity of actual works and anyone with half a brain and knowledge of the artist could discount the majority in seconds It’s a street piece , no It’s not one of the 20/30 official prints , no It’s a piece of memorabilia or a poster ,no They literally don’t care I love B and the work and I have no issue with them myself but it’s literally a fact that they don’t care Pretty cool view on things but it does mean they will end up getting sued Chances are that they have already issued a COA to someone else with your print number that's been sold at auction. |
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reg
New Member
🗨️ 339
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October 2007
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Pest Control COA • Banksy Print Authentication, by reg on Mar 10, 2024 19:41:27 GMT 1, I could systemise PC in a week.
Scrap the absolute nonsense of emailing photos and credit card billls to ascertain Provenance (a format that has months at best before it's overtaken by AI bots).
Set PC up as a financial institution and access credit reference and other sources for addresses and proofs of ID to properly trace ownership.
And.... Controversial.... Draw a line - only those pieces eligible for a CoA will be issued with one and let the rest prove their own Provenance.
I could systemise PC in a week.
Scrap the absolute nonsense of emailing photos and credit card billls to ascertain Provenance (a format that has months at best before it's overtaken by AI bots).
Set PC up as a financial institution and access credit reference and other sources for addresses and proofs of ID to properly trace ownership.
And.... Controversial.... Draw a line - only those pieces eligible for a CoA will be issued with one and let the rest prove their own Provenance.
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mojo
Junior Member
🗨️ 2,193
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May 2014
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Pest Control COA • Banksy Print Authentication, by mojo on Mar 10, 2024 19:56:16 GMT 1, I have a family member who bought a print from POW in 2007 Has all emails and his credit card bill from that month He’s never sold it or framed it He sent a request for a cert a year and a half ago because he never requested one before and is still waiting No arguments are justified here it’s simply poor management and lack of staff Literally there is no argument The whole , they have thousands of emails a day argument is nonsense There is a small quantity of actual works and anyone with half a brain and knowledge of the artist could discount the majority in seconds It’s a street piece , no It’s not one of the 20/30 official prints , no It’s a piece of memorabilia or a poster ,no They literally don’t care I love B and the work and I have no issue with them myself but it’s literally a fact that they don’t care Pretty cool view on things but it does mean they will end up getting sued
I'm sure once they get to your application it will be quite simple and straightforward, did you attach copies of all the documentation/proof? Thing is they really are dealing with thousands of artworks (& daily emails) each with a unique chain of ownership with varying degree's of proof linked to each to establish COA and to keep updated records. It really isn't as simple as you describe, by looking through a 'pile' of prints and posters and randomly pulling out the dodgy fakes, it's establishing the artworks history and recording that for future reference. As I said I can see why people get frustrated but I suppose its all just part of the process and if it wasn't being done throughly/properly it would invariably create more problems down the line.
Alternatively perhaps Banksy and PC are gently reminding us that patience is a virtue or that everything comes to those that wait?
I have a family member who bought a print from POW in 2007 Has all emails and his credit card bill from that month He’s never sold it or framed it He sent a request for a cert a year and a half ago because he never requested one before and is still waiting No arguments are justified here it’s simply poor management and lack of staff Literally there is no argument The whole , they have thousands of emails a day argument is nonsense There is a small quantity of actual works and anyone with half a brain and knowledge of the artist could discount the majority in seconds It’s a street piece , no It’s not one of the 20/30 official prints , no It’s a piece of memorabilia or a poster ,no They literally don’t care I love B and the work and I have no issue with them myself but it’s literally a fact that they don’t care Pretty cool view on things but it does mean they will end up getting sued Great you have all that proof..and that they had the good sense to buy it in 2007. I'm sure once they get to your application it will be quite simple and straightforward, did you attach copies of all the documentation/proof? Thing is they really are dealing with thousands of artworks (& daily emails) each with a unique chain of ownership with varying degree's of proof linked to each to establish COA and to keep updated records. It really isn't as simple as you describe, by looking through a 'pile' of prints and posters and randomly pulling out the dodgy fakes, it's establishing the artworks history and recording that for future reference. As I said I can see why people get frustrated but I suppose its all just part of the process and if it wasn't being done throughly/properly it would invariably create more problems down the line. Alternatively perhaps Banksy and PC are gently reminding us that patience is a virtue or that everything comes to those that wait? |
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Deleted
🗨️ 0
👍🏻
January 1970
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Pest Control COA • Banksy Print Authentication, by Deleted on Mar 10, 2024 20:03:37 GMT 1, I have a family member who bought a print from POW in 2007 Has all emails and his credit card bill from that month He’s never sold it or framed it He sent a request for a cert a year and a half ago because he never requested one before and is still waiting No arguments are justified here it’s simply poor management and lack of staff Literally there is no argument The whole , they have thousands of emails a day argument is nonsense There is a small quantity of actual works and anyone with half a brain and knowledge of the artist could discount the majority in seconds It’s a street piece , no It’s not one of the 20/30 official prints , no It’s a piece of memorabilia or a poster ,no They literally don’t care I love B and the work and I have no issue with them myself but it’s literally a fact that they don’t care Pretty cool view on things but it does mean they will end up getting sued Great you have all that proof..and that they had the good sense to buy it in 2007. I'm sure once they get to your application it will be quite simple and straightforward, did you attach copies of all the documentation/proof? Thing is they really are dealing with thousands of artworks (& daily emails) each with a unique chain of ownership with varying degree's of proof linked to each to establish COA and to keep updated records. It really isn't as simple as you describe, by looking through a 'pile' of prints and posters and randomly pulling out the dodgy fakes, it's establishing the artworks history and recording that for future reference. As I said I can see why people get frustrated but I suppose its all just part of the process and if it wasn't being done throughly/properly it would invariably create more problems down the line. Alternatively perhaps Banksy and PC are gently reminding us that patience is a virtue or that everything comes to those that wait?
It could be simpler, they make it more difficult than it needs to be. Probably due to a lack of experience in different roles.
I have a family member who bought a print from POW in 2007 Has all emails and his credit card bill from that month He’s never sold it or framed it He sent a request for a cert a year and a half ago because he never requested one before and is still waiting No arguments are justified here it’s simply poor management and lack of staff Literally there is no argument The whole , they have thousands of emails a day argument is nonsense There is a small quantity of actual works and anyone with half a brain and knowledge of the artist could discount the majority in seconds It’s a street piece , no It’s not one of the 20/30 official prints , no It’s a piece of memorabilia or a poster ,no They literally don’t care I love B and the work and I have no issue with them myself but it’s literally a fact that they don’t care Pretty cool view on things but it does mean they will end up getting sued Great you have all that proof..and that they had the good sense to buy it in 2007. I'm sure once they get to your application it will be quite simple and straightforward, did you attach copies of all the documentation/proof? Thing is they really are dealing with thousands of artworks (& daily emails) each with a unique chain of ownership with varying degree's of proof linked to each to establish COA and to keep updated records. It really isn't as simple as you describe, by looking through a 'pile' of prints and posters and randomly pulling out the dodgy fakes, it's establishing the artworks history and recording that for future reference. As I said I can see why people get frustrated but I suppose its all just part of the process and if it wasn't being done throughly/properly it would invariably create more problems down the line. Alternatively perhaps Banksy and PC are gently reminding us that patience is a virtue or that everything comes to those that wait? There's no excuse really, if they can't do the job properly make changes, get help or hire people that can do the job. It could be simpler, they make it more difficult than it needs to be. Probably due to a lack of experience in different roles. |
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mojo
Junior Member
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May 2014
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Pest Control COA • Banksy Print Authentication, by mojo on Mar 10, 2024 20:34:40 GMT 1, Great you have all that proof..and that they had the good sense to buy it in 2007. I'm sure once they get to your application it will be quite simple and straightforward, did you attach copies of all the documentation/proof? Thing is they really are dealing with thousands of artworks (& daily emails) each with a unique chain of ownership with varying degree's of proof linked to each to establish COA and to keep updated records. It really isn't as simple as you describe, by looking through a 'pile' of prints and posters and randomly pulling out the dodgy fakes, it's establishing the artworks history and recording that for future reference. As I said I can see why people get frustrated but I suppose its all just part of the process and if it wasn't being done throughly/properly it would invariably create more problems down the line. Alternatively perhaps Banksy and PC are gently reminding us that patience is a virtue or that everything comes to those that wait? There's no excuse really, if they can't do the job properly make changes, get help or hire people that can do the job.
I'm sure many people on here think they could do it better, faster, smarter with an app thrown in but in reality don't have any experience of how the business actually operates.
Great you have all that proof..and that they had the good sense to buy it in 2007. I'm sure once they get to your application it will be quite simple and straightforward, did you attach copies of all the documentation/proof? Thing is they really are dealing with thousands of artworks (& daily emails) each with a unique chain of ownership with varying degree's of proof linked to each to establish COA and to keep updated records. It really isn't as simple as you describe, by looking through a 'pile' of prints and posters and randomly pulling out the dodgy fakes, it's establishing the artworks history and recording that for future reference. As I said I can see why people get frustrated but I suppose its all just part of the process and if it wasn't being done throughly/properly it would invariably create more problems down the line. Alternatively perhaps Banksy and PC are gently reminding us that patience is a virtue or that everything comes to those that wait? There's no excuse really, if they can't do the job properly make changes, get help or hire people that can do the job. But they are 'doing the job' the job takes time. Think about it, 1000's of artworks spanning 25 years. I bet PC staff love coming on here to read about how shit they are at their jobs and how crap they all are for carrying out due diligence when authenticating the work that will later be sold for life changing amounts of cash by the people slagging them off. I'm sure many people on here think they could do it better, faster, smarter with an app thrown in but in reality don't have any experience of how the business actually operates. |
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Pest Control COA • Banksy Print Authentication, by Acme Thunderer on Mar 10, 2024 21:01:50 GMT 1, Who is this Bankdy person you all speak of?
Who is this Bankdy person you all speak of? |
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Pest Control COA • Banksy Print Authentication, by Pete the Post on Mar 10, 2024 21:18:15 GMT 1, Working for PC, must be like living your life inside this forum id guess it wont be long until they Fuck it off. Wouldnt be the first authenticators to decide the grief just isnt worth it.
And who could blame them.
Working for PC, must be like living your life inside this forum id guess it wont be long until they Fuck it off. Wouldnt be the first authenticators to decide the grief just isnt worth it.
And who could blame them.
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Deleted
🗨️ 0
👍🏻
January 1970
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Pest Control COA • Banksy Print Authentication, by Deleted on Mar 10, 2024 21:34:11 GMT 1, There's no excuse really, if they can't do the job properly make changes, get help or hire people that can do the job. But they are 'doing the job' the job takes time. Think about it, 1000's of artworks spanning 25 years. I bet PC staff love coming on here to read about how shit they are at their jobs and how crap they all are for carrying out due diligence when authenticating the work that will later be sold for life changing amounts of cash by the people slagging them off. I'm sure many people on here think they could do it better, faster, smarter with an app thrown in but in reality don't have any experience of how the business actually operates.
Of course the current staff has a big task, an impossible task for them it seems. Maybe get more staff for starters if volumes the big issue.
These lawsuits are no longer out of public eye and being settled out of court. They're being aired out publicly in the papers.
By ' by the people slagging them off.', do you mean the people that bought his works and helped put them in the position they're in now? Ie his supporters/fans/collectors?
There's no excuse really, if they can't do the job properly make changes, get help or hire people that can do the job. But they are 'doing the job' the job takes time. Think about it, 1000's of artworks spanning 25 years. I bet PC staff love coming on here to read about how shit they are at their jobs and how crap they all are for carrying out due diligence when authenticating the work that will later be sold for life changing amounts of cash by the people slagging them off. I'm sure many people on here think they could do it better, faster, smarter with an app thrown in but in reality don't have any experience of how the business actually operates. Point is they're doing the job really badly. Theres no excuse for not being able to authenticate works which have enough proof in place(which they have) or to deny coas because of some trumped up new policy they made up(which they have). There's no excuses for a lot of it. Other than too few inexperienced staff to cope. Of course the current staff has a big task, an impossible task for them it seems. Maybe get more staff for starters if volumes the big issue. These lawsuits are no longer out of public eye and being settled out of court. They're being aired out publicly in the papers. By ' by the people slagging them off.', do you mean the people that bought his works and helped put them in the position they're in now? Ie his supporters/fans/collectors? |
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LJCal
Junior Member
🗨️ 2,998
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December 2019
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Pest Control COA • Banksy Print Authentication, by LJCal on Mar 10, 2024 23:11:37 GMT 1, There's a good reason the Warhol, Lichtenstein, Basquiat and Haring authentication boards were disbanded, it's inevitable the same will happen for Pest Control, it's when not if. The reality is the market for these artists has moved forward without issue, the same will happen with Banksy. I thought it would take 10-20 years with Banksy but based on recent events could happen in the next 1-2 years. I imagine it's become a huge pain in the ass for him and he'll probably fuck off the authentication sooner than most people think.
I own and have bought hundreds of secondary works without COAs and never had an isssue because there are other ways to authenticate pieces. As things stand in my view the market may function better if they just shut up shop and focussed on the marketing, PR and carrying out sales.
There's a good reason the Warhol, Lichtenstein, Basquiat and Haring authentication boards were disbanded, it's inevitable the same will happen for Pest Control, it's when not if. The reality is the market for these artists has moved forward without issue, the same will happen with Banksy. I thought it would take 10-20 years with Banksy but based on recent events could happen in the next 1-2 years. I imagine it's become a huge pain in the ass for him and he'll probably fuck off the authentication sooner than most people think.
I own and have bought hundreds of secondary works without COAs and never had an isssue because there are other ways to authenticate pieces. As things stand in my view the market may function better if they just shut up shop and focussed on the marketing, PR and carrying out sales.
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mojo
Junior Member
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May 2014
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Pest Control COA • Banksy Print Authentication, by mojo on Mar 11, 2024 0:00:43 GMT 1, But they are 'doing the job' the job takes time. Think about it, 1000's of artworks spanning 25 years. I bet PC staff love coming on here to read about how shit they are at their jobs and how crap they all are for carrying out due diligence when authenticating the work that will later be sold for life changing amounts of cash by the people slagging them off. I'm sure many people on here think they could do it better, faster, smarter with an app thrown in but in reality don't have any experience of how the business actually operates. Point is they're doing the job really badly. Theres no excuse for not being able to authenticate works which have enough proof in place(which they have) or to deny coas because of some trumped up new policy they made up(which they have). There's no excuses for a lot of it. Other than too few inexperienced staff to cope. Of course the current staff has a big task, an impossible task for them it seems. Maybe get more staff for starters if volumes the big issue. These lawsuits are no longer out of public eye and being settled out of court. They're being aired out publicly in the papers. By ' by the people slagging them off.', do you mean the people that bought his works and helped put them in the position they're in now? Ie his supporters/fans/collectors?
But they are 'doing the job' the job takes time. Think about it, 1000's of artworks spanning 25 years. I bet PC staff love coming on here to read about how shit they are at their jobs and how crap they all are for carrying out due diligence when authenticating the work that will later be sold for life changing amounts of cash by the people slagging them off. I'm sure many people on here think they could do it better, faster, smarter with an app thrown in but in reality don't have any experience of how the business actually operates. Point is they're doing the job really badly. Theres no excuse for not being able to authenticate works which have enough proof in place(which they have) or to deny coas because of some trumped up new policy they made up(which they have). There's no excuses for a lot of it. Other than too few inexperienced staff to cope. Of course the current staff has a big task, an impossible task for them it seems. Maybe get more staff for starters if volumes the big issue. These lawsuits are no longer out of public eye and being settled out of court. They're being aired out publicly in the papers. By ' by the people slagging them off.', do you mean the people that bought his works and helped put them in the position they're in now? Ie his supporters/fans/collectors? But you have to appreciate that any particular artwork could have gone through many private sales/dealerships/auctions/poker games/car boot sales/ estate sales without Banksy/PC being involved ...that's the rub and that's why it takes time to be able to comprehensibly piece it all together. It's just not as simple as is being implied and I don't think anyone is trying to be difficult its just the way it is. |
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hnkpnk
Junior Member
🗨️ 1,344
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July 2011
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Pest Control COA • Banksy Print Authentication, by hnkpnk on Mar 11, 2024 0:10:20 GMT 1, I was shown this article yesterday and appears to be a problem with a Monkey Queen image. Wasn’t there a fair few back door prints from this run?
If it takes PC a long time to come up with a verdict I’m not surprised.
I was shown this article yesterday and appears to be a problem with a Monkey Queen image. Wasn’t there a fair few back door prints from this run? Yes, I think there were quite a lot of back door Monkey Queens. And as they are indistinguishable from the official edition apart from a number and maybe a signature in pencil it must be next to impossible to determine if real or not if it doesn’t have a paper trail. It also predates the blind stamp even if a lot got it as they sold years after the first release. If it takes PC a long time to come up with a verdict I’m not surprised. |
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Deleted
🗨️ 0
👍🏻
January 1970
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Pest Control COA • Banksy Print Authentication, by Deleted on Mar 11, 2024 0:23:25 GMT 1, Point is they're doing the job really badly. Theres no excuse for not being able to authenticate works which have enough proof in place(which they have) or to deny coas because of some trumped up new policy they made up(which they have). There's no excuses for a lot of it. Other than too few inexperienced staff to cope. Of course the current staff has a big task, an impossible task for them it seems. Maybe get more staff for starters if volumes the big issue. These lawsuits are no longer out of public eye and being settled out of court. They're being aired out publicly in the papers. By ' by the people slagging them off.', do you mean the people that bought his works and helped put them in the position they're in now? Ie his supporters/fans/collectors? But you have to appreciate that any particular artwork could have gone through many private sales/dealerships/auctions/poker games/car boot sales/ estate sales without Banksy/PC being involved ...that's the rub and that's why it takes time to be able to comprehensibly piece it all together. It's just not as simple as is being implied and I don't think anyone is trying to be difficult its just the way it is.
'Just the way it is', is problematic..
Point is they're doing the job really badly. Theres no excuse for not being able to authenticate works which have enough proof in place(which they have) or to deny coas because of some trumped up new policy they made up(which they have). There's no excuses for a lot of it. Other than too few inexperienced staff to cope. Of course the current staff has a big task, an impossible task for them it seems. Maybe get more staff for starters if volumes the big issue. These lawsuits are no longer out of public eye and being settled out of court. They're being aired out publicly in the papers. By ' by the people slagging them off.', do you mean the people that bought his works and helped put them in the position they're in now? Ie his supporters/fans/collectors? But you have to appreciate that any particular artwork could have gone through many private sales/dealerships/auctions/poker games/car boot sales/ estate sales without Banksy/PC being involved ...that's the rub and that's why it takes time to be able to comprehensibly piece it all together. It's just not as simple as is being implied and I don't think anyone is trying to be difficult its just the way it is. I appreciate and understand all the above. I don't see the difficulty in training extra staff to do due diligence. They were able to train the new directors in a few months and felt that was sufficient. That would be much more difficult than training how to perform due diligence. 'Just the way it is', is problematic.. |
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Javier
Junior Member
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November 2019
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Pest Control COA • Banksy Print Authentication, by Javier on Mar 11, 2024 7:31:51 GMT 1, Point is they're doing the job really badly. Theres no excuse for not being able to authenticate works which have enough proof in place(which they have) or to deny coas because of some trumped up new policy they made up(which they have). There's no excuses for a lot of it. Other than too few inexperienced staff to cope. Of course the current staff has a big task, an impossible task for them it seems. Maybe get more staff for starters if volumes the big issue. These lawsuits are no longer out of public eye and being settled out of court. They're being aired out publicly in the papers. By ' by the people slagging them off.', do you mean the people that bought his works and helped put them in the position they're in now? Ie his supporters/fans/collectors? But you have to appreciate that any particular artwork could have gone through many private sales/dealerships/auctions/poker games/car boot sales/ estate sales without Banksy/PC being involved ...that's the rub and that's why it takes time to be able to comprehensibly piece it all together. It's just not as simple as is being implied and I don't think anyone is trying to be difficult its just the way it is.
Point is they're doing the job really badly. Theres no excuse for not being able to authenticate works which have enough proof in place(which they have) or to deny coas because of some trumped up new policy they made up(which they have). There's no excuses for a lot of it. Other than too few inexperienced staff to cope. Of course the current staff has a big task, an impossible task for them it seems. Maybe get more staff for starters if volumes the big issue. These lawsuits are no longer out of public eye and being settled out of court. They're being aired out publicly in the papers. By ' by the people slagging them off.', do you mean the people that bought his works and helped put them in the position they're in now? Ie his supporters/fans/collectors? But you have to appreciate that any particular artwork could have gone through many private sales/dealerships/auctions/poker games/car boot sales/ estate sales without Banksy/PC being involved ...that's the rub and that's why it takes time to be able to comprehensibly piece it all together. It's just not as simple as is being implied and I don't think anyone is trying to be difficult its just the way it is. That doesn’t explain why are still lots of GDP pieces waiting for their COA (that besides was to be directly sent by November 2021). I don’t want Banksy prices el fall, but I want to have my COA at home, stored, and forget about needing documents for my artwork. Backdoor prints involved must be a pain and hard to deal, but this is easy. Very easy |
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kfroms
Junior Member
🗨️ 1,784
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October 2011
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Pest Control COA • Banksy Print Authentication, by kfroms on Mar 11, 2024 9:21:24 GMT 1, There's a good reason the Warhol, Lichtenstein, Basquiat and Haring authentication boards were disbanded, it's inevitable the same will happen for Pest Control, it's when not if. The reality is the market for these artists has moved forward without issue, the same will happen with Banksy. I thought it would take 10-20 years with Banksy but based on recent events could happen in the next 1-2 years. I imagine it's become a huge pain in the ass for him and he'll probably fuck off the authentication sooner than most people think. I own and have bought hundreds of secondary works without COAs and never had an isssue because there are other ways to authenticate pieces. As things stand in my view the market may function better if they just shut up shop and focussed on the marketing, PR and carrying out sales.
a very good read regarding the topic of authenticity and the dirty stuff happening while at it:
Warhol After Warhol: Power and Money in the Modern Art World amzn.eu/d/40L3esm
Long-time art critic Richard Dorment reveals the corruption and lies of the art world and its mystifying authentication process.
Late one afternoon in the winter of 2003 art critic Richard Dorment answered a telephone call from a stranger. The caller was Joe Simon, an American film producer and art collector. He was ringing at the suggestion of David Hockney, his neighbour in Malibu. A committee of experts called the Andy Warhol Art Authentication Board had declared the two Warhols in his collection to be fake. He wanted to know why and thought Dorment could help.
This call would mark the beginning of an extraordinary story that would play out over the next ten years and would involve a cast of characters straight out of fiction. From rock icons and film stars; art dealers and art forgers; to a murdered Russian oligarch and a lawyer for the mob; from courtrooms to auction houses: all took part in a bitter struggle to prove the authenticity of a series of paintings by the most famous American artist of the twentieth century.
There's a good reason the Warhol, Lichtenstein, Basquiat and Haring authentication boards were disbanded, it's inevitable the same will happen for Pest Control, it's when not if. The reality is the market for these artists has moved forward without issue, the same will happen with Banksy. I thought it would take 10-20 years with Banksy but based on recent events could happen in the next 1-2 years. I imagine it's become a huge pain in the ass for him and he'll probably fuck off the authentication sooner than most people think. I own and have bought hundreds of secondary works without COAs and never had an isssue because there are other ways to authenticate pieces. As things stand in my view the market may function better if they just shut up shop and focussed on the marketing, PR and carrying out sales. Agree - there will be a point when the pressure / risk / cost will be too high and they will close shop for good. a very good read regarding the topic of authenticity and the dirty stuff happening while at it: Warhol After Warhol: Power and Money in the Modern Art World amzn.eu/d/40L3esmLong-time art critic Richard Dorment reveals the corruption and lies of the art world and its mystifying authentication process. Late one afternoon in the winter of 2003 art critic Richard Dorment answered a telephone call from a stranger. The caller was Joe Simon, an American film producer and art collector. He was ringing at the suggestion of David Hockney, his neighbour in Malibu. A committee of experts called the Andy Warhol Art Authentication Board had declared the two Warhols in his collection to be fake. He wanted to know why and thought Dorment could help. This call would mark the beginning of an extraordinary story that would play out over the next ten years and would involve a cast of characters straight out of fiction. From rock icons and film stars; art dealers and art forgers; to a murdered Russian oligarch and a lawyer for the mob; from courtrooms to auction houses: all took part in a bitter struggle to prove the authenticity of a series of paintings by the most famous American artist of the twentieth century. |
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marrosi
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August 2012
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Pest Control COA • Banksy Print Authentication, by marrosi on Mar 11, 2024 10:15:53 GMT 1, I have to say when I got my Monkey Queen I had no problem with changing ownership at all. I guess is all about provenance at the end. I remember it took me not long to get Pest Control back. Same happened with another Banksy. I remember they misspelled my name and I sent them back an email to correct it which it was replied straight away.
I have to say when I got my Monkey Queen I had no problem with changing ownership at all. I guess is all about provenance at the end. I remember it took me not long to get Pest Control back. Same happened with another Banksy. I remember they misspelled my name and I sent them back an email to correct it which it was replied straight away.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Pest Control COA • Banksy Print Authentication, by Deleted on Mar 11, 2024 10:49:04 GMT 1, Yes it is all about provenance in the end.
They are supposed to be an authority but when they don't have all the paperwork/provenance nicely in place they don't make a decision. 3 years and still no decision. As the 'authority' they need to decide if it is a legitimate work or not using the information they have and the experience/knowledge they have as a collective unit.
They are not an authentication company, they can't authenticate unless they have paperwork all in order, that's due diligence. There's a yes or no decision they need to be confident making as the proclaimed authority.
If they want to be an authority on the Banksy commercial market they need to act with authority, not sit on their hands and ignore the problem hoping it will go away. It won't.
Yes it is all about provenance in the end.
They are supposed to be an authority but when they don't have all the paperwork/provenance nicely in place they don't make a decision. 3 years and still no decision. As the 'authority' they need to decide if it is a legitimate work or not using the information they have and the experience/knowledge they have as a collective unit.
They are not an authentication company, they can't authenticate unless they have paperwork all in order, that's due diligence. There's a yes or no decision they need to be confident making as the proclaimed authority.
If they want to be an authority on the Banksy commercial market they need to act with authority, not sit on their hands and ignore the problem hoping it will go away. It won't.
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Londown 01
Junior Member
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September 2021
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Pest Control COA • Banksy Print Authentication, by Londown 01 on Mar 11, 2024 11:07:35 GMT 1,
The verdict whether to issue CoA or not is based on a) the paperwork and b) the physical parameters of the work, no?!
The verdict whether to issue CoA or not is based on a) the paperwork and b) the physical parameters of the work, no?!
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Pest Control COA • Banksy Print Authentication, by The Italian One on Mar 11, 2024 11:08:49 GMT 1, anyone had experience in a change of ownership from a piece bought at christie's ?
sent the request of change more than a year ago, the art has the new COA, but never received confirmation back that the piece is in my name.
Not worry at all, but would be niece to have confirmation
anyone had experience in a change of ownership from a piece bought at christie's ?
sent the request of change more than a year ago, the art has the new COA, but never received confirmation back that the piece is in my name.
Not worry at all, but would be niece to have confirmation
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Deleted
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👍🏻
January 1970
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Pest Control COA • Banksy Print Authentication, by Deleted on Mar 11, 2024 11:46:26 GMT 1, The verdict whether to issue CoA or not is based on a) the paperwork and b) the physical parameters of the work, no?!
One example where an owner applied for a coa, sent everything required for authentication but didn't have proof of purchase. They purchased at Santa's ghetto, 20 years ago. PC ask them to send the artwork into an auction house. PC would then go to the auction and examine, presumably to ascertain it's legitimacy using their skill sets as authorities.
After sending it in to be inspected by PC to confirm authenticity by examining the artwork, PC decided they wouldn't issue a coa.
It didn't have the necessary paperwork.......
The verdict whether to issue CoA or not is based on a) the paperwork and b) the physical parameters of the work, no?! Yes absolutely, looking at and examining the artwork in person is important. Another area PC struggle with. One example where an owner applied for a coa, sent everything required for authentication but didn't have proof of purchase. They purchased at Santa's ghetto, 20 years ago. PC ask them to send the artwork into an auction house. PC would then go to the auction and examine, presumably to ascertain it's legitimacy using their skill sets as authorities. After sending it in to be inspected by PC to confirm authenticity by examining the artwork, PC decided they wouldn't issue a coa. It didn't have the necessary paperwork....... |
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loui
New Member
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January 2024
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Pest Control COA • Banksy Print Authentication, by loui on Mar 11, 2024 11:47:50 GMT 1, There's a good reason the Warhol, Lichtenstein, Basquiat and Haring authentication boards were disbanded, it's inevitable the same will happen for Pest Control, it's when not if. The reality is the market for these artists has moved forward without issue, the same will happen with Banksy. I thought it would take 10-20 years with Banksy but based on recent events could happen in the next 1-2 years. I imagine it's become a huge pain in the ass for him and he'll probably fuck off the authentication sooner than most people think. I own and have bought hundreds of secondary works without COAs and never had an isssue because there are other ways to authenticate pieces. As things stand in my view the market may function better if they just shut up shop and focussed on the marketing, PR and carrying out sales. Agree - there will be a point when the pressure / risk / cost will be too high and they will close shop for good. a very good read regarding the topic of authenticity and the dirty stuff happening while at it: Warhol After Warhol: Power and Money in the Modern Art World amzn.eu/d/40L3esmLong-time art critic Richard Dorment reveals the corruption and lies of the art world and its mystifying authentication process. Late one afternoon in the winter of 2003 art critic Richard Dorment answered a telephone call from a stranger. The caller was Joe Simon, an American film producer and art collector. He was ringing at the suggestion of David Hockney, his neighbour in Malibu. A committee of experts called the Andy Warhol Art Authentication Board had declared the two Warhols in his collection to be fake. He wanted to know why and thought Dorment could help. This call would mark the beginning of an extraordinary story that would play out over the next ten years and would involve a cast of characters straight out of fiction. From rock icons and film stars; art dealers and art forgers; to a murdered Russian oligarch and a lawyer for the mob; from courtrooms to auction houses: all took part in a bitter struggle to prove the authenticity of a series of paintings by the most famous American artist of the twentieth century.
There's a good reason the Warhol, Lichtenstein, Basquiat and Haring authentication boards were disbanded, it's inevitable the same will happen for Pest Control, it's when not if. The reality is the market for these artists has moved forward without issue, the same will happen with Banksy. I thought it would take 10-20 years with Banksy but based on recent events could happen in the next 1-2 years. I imagine it's become a huge pain in the ass for him and he'll probably fuck off the authentication sooner than most people think. I own and have bought hundreds of secondary works without COAs and never had an isssue because there are other ways to authenticate pieces. As things stand in my view the market may function better if they just shut up shop and focussed on the marketing, PR and carrying out sales. Agree - there will be a point when the pressure / risk / cost will be too high and they will close shop for good. a very good read regarding the topic of authenticity and the dirty stuff happening while at it: Warhol After Warhol: Power and Money in the Modern Art World amzn.eu/d/40L3esmLong-time art critic Richard Dorment reveals the corruption and lies of the art world and its mystifying authentication process. Late one afternoon in the winter of 2003 art critic Richard Dorment answered a telephone call from a stranger. The caller was Joe Simon, an American film producer and art collector. He was ringing at the suggestion of David Hockney, his neighbour in Malibu. A committee of experts called the Andy Warhol Art Authentication Board had declared the two Warhols in his collection to be fake. He wanted to know why and thought Dorment could help. This call would mark the beginning of an extraordinary story that would play out over the next ten years and would involve a cast of characters straight out of fiction. From rock icons and film stars; art dealers and art forgers; to a murdered Russian oligarch and a lawyer for the mob; from courtrooms to auction houses: all took part in a bitter struggle to prove the authenticity of a series of paintings by the most famous American artist of the twentieth century. Poor Banksy and his ideals for a better world 😢 The moral of it all: Paint for pleasure not for money. |
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seidbereit
Junior Member
🗨️ 1,743
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November 2007
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Pest Control COA • Banksy Print Authentication, by seidbereit on Mar 12, 2024 18:29:47 GMT 1, I submitted an authentication request in September for one of my prints - received an email last week asking for a couple more close up pics in natural daylight of the signature and edition number so just sent them through… I’m in no rush so if I have to wait a year… meh…
I wrote to their e-mail address midway through last year to find out if they'd even received them (even though I have ref e-mails for all four) but just received some daft preworded automativc reply that they're busy and it could take weeks, months, years. Struck me a pretty unprofessional.
Does anyone have a way of contacting PC with some hope of a proper reply? There's no way I've missed or accidentally deleted replies to four e-mails that I'm specifically waiting on, so I want to know what is going on.
I submitted an authentication request in September for one of my prints - received an email last week asking for a couple more close up pics in natural daylight of the signature and edition number so just sent them through… I’m in no rush so if I have to wait a year… meh… Hmm.. interesting. I submitted four authentication requests on 19 Feb 2023 for four prints I've had since 2007 (all confirmed back in the day by POW, one of which I had to send to POW for closer examination as it was a low number). I haven't heard back from them at all. I thought they worked through requests in the order they landed? I wrote to their e-mail address midway through last year to find out if they'd even received them (even though I have ref e-mails for all four) but just received some daft preworded automativc reply that they're busy and it could take weeks, months, years. Struck me a pretty unprofessional. Does anyone have a way of contacting PC with some hope of a proper reply? There's no way I've missed or accidentally deleted replies to four e-mails that I'm specifically waiting on, so I want to know what is going on. |
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artearte
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August 2015
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Pest Control COA • Banksy Print Authentication, by artearte on Mar 12, 2024 20:10:58 GMT 1, This will help to put the price another 20% down
This will help to put the price another 20% down
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LJCal
Junior Member
🗨️ 2,998
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December 2019
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Pest Control COA • Banksy Print Authentication, by LJCal on Mar 12, 2024 22:46:53 GMT 1, That would equal about 20ish per day. Doesn't sound like an impossible task, or am I missing something? I can’t imagine they work weekends! 😉 Assuming an average of 20 working days per month we are looking 35 or so a day then.
That would equal about 20ish per day. Doesn't sound like an impossible task, or am I missing something? I can’t imagine they work weekends! 😉 Assuming an average of 20 working days per month we are looking 35 or so a day then. You could probably filter out half in about 1 min, ephemera, obvious fakes, gift prints etc. |
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Pest Control COA • Banksy Print Authentication, by Jeezuz Jones Snr on Mar 12, 2024 22:51:53 GMT 1, Given the pricing of his prints and originals, PC should have had their pricing higher for their service. Say £250 for a print and £1500 for an original.
At least then that would put off and remove a lot of people from submitting for COA after buying fake works off lower tier auction houses and eBay etc..
The money would cover a full time wage for the COA guy and for the guy who drinks the tea and adds the stains to the COAs also. 😉
Given the pricing of his prints and originals, PC should have had their pricing higher for their service. Say £250 for a print and £1500 for an original.
At least then that would put off and remove a lot of people from submitting for COA after buying fake works off lower tier auction houses and eBay etc..
The money would cover a full time wage for the COA guy and for the guy who drinks the tea and adds the stains to the COAs also. 😉
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LJCal
Junior Member
🗨️ 2,998
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December 2019
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Pest Control COA • Banksy Print Authentication, by LJCal on Mar 12, 2024 22:52:54 GMT 1, Has anyone actually ever seen a decent fake in the flesh? I presume it's not particularly easy to make a very good forgery? Or maybe with modern printers and scanners it's very easy? 700 applications a month for COA's seems very high. I'd guess that figure probably includes requests to change ownership and maybe other enquiries? I thought I read once that there is only around 30,000 to 40,000 Banksy prints in circulation and you'd think the majority would already have COA?
Has anyone actually ever seen a decent fake in the flesh? I presume it's not particularly easy to make a very good forgery? Or maybe with modern printers and scanners it's very easy? 700 applications a month for COA's seems very high. I'd guess that figure probably includes requests to change ownership and maybe other enquiries? I thought I read once that there is only around 30,000 to 40,000 Banksy prints in circulation and you'd think the majority would already have COA? Yeah I have, there are some near perfect fakes (not including back door or test prints) but they're not the norm. 95% of fakes are easy to spot if you have know his prints or have reference pictures and cataloging. |
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