Pattycakes
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June 2007
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Christie's Art Auctions , by Pattycakes on Sept 20, 2017 13:57:35 GMT 1, The cataloguing was deeply deceptive, it read as though it was in a unique colour combination, expect the buyer to back out if they discover the truth!
The cataloguing was deeply deceptive, it read as though it was in a unique colour combination, expect the buyer to back out if they discover the truth!
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Laugh Now 10
New Member
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February 2017
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Christie's Art Auctions , by Laugh Now 10 on Sept 20, 2017 13:59:16 GMT 1, I wonder if someone bought thinking it was a unique colour, but will discover it's not!? Isn't there blue, green and blue/green rain versions too? theres 6 ap's that are 2 colors. ย there are 66 ap's of these, no one knows the exact breakdown between the 6 versions. ย these are not of any the numbered editions. ย i think theres orange and neon yellow or green that are numbered editions of 31 or 32... ย i think the ap's are blue to green, yellow to pink, green to burgandy, orange to light orange? i forget the others.. i think the blue to the green is the best personally  although i always thoght the burgandy/green was cool looking..ย
Yes, you are correct but I have it on very good authority that there are only 6 of the numbered pink/yellow and 12 of the dark to light orange APs. As for the other gradients, they are all editions of approximately these numbers out of the 66 AP editioned NOLAs. And yes, as for the neons (also APs, not the gradients) there are 31 yellows and 32 oranges. Iโm sure that anyone interested can also search for old threads where more of this info is discussed. Cheers.
I wonder if someone bought thinking it was a unique colour, but will discover it's not!? Isn't there blue, green and blue/green rain versions too? theres 6 ap's that are 2 colors. ย there are 66 ap's of these, no one knows the exact breakdown between the 6 versions. ย these are not of any the numbered editions. ย i think theres orange and neon yellow or green that are numbered editions of 31 or 32... ย i think the ap's are blue to green, yellow to pink, green to burgandy, orange to light orange? i forget the others.. i think the blue to the green is the best personally although i always thoght the burgandy/green was cool looking..ย Yes, you are correct but I have it on very good authority that there are only 6 of the numbered pink/yellow and 12 of the dark to light orange APs. As for the other gradients, they are all editions of approximately these numbers out of the 66 AP editioned NOLAs. And yes, as for the neons (also APs, not the gradients) there are 31 yellows and 32 oranges. Iโm sure that anyone interested can also search for old threads where more of this info is discussed. Cheers. |
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Artfan13
New Member
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March 2017
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Christie's Art Auctions , by Artfan13 on Sept 20, 2017 14:07:04 GMT 1, The cataloguing was deeply deceptive, it read as though it was in a unique colour combination, expect the buyer to back out if they discover the truth!
It did say 'rare' colourway as opposed to 'unique' so I think it would be difficult to pull out on those grounds.
The cataloguing was deeply deceptive, it read as though it was in a unique colour combination, expect the buyer to back out if they discover the truth! It did say 'rare' colourway as opposed to 'unique' so I think it would be difficult to pull out on those grounds. |
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Sundowner
Junior Member
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September 2008
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Christie's Art Auctions , by Sundowner on Sept 20, 2017 18:32:40 GMT 1, The rarest Nola AP colourways are green (only 3 I'm led to believe) and the unique pink.
The rarest Nola AP colourways are green (only 3 I'm led to believe) and the unique pink.
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Winter
Junior Member
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March 2007
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Christie's Art Auctions , by Winter on Sept 20, 2017 18:49:38 GMT 1, Blue to green works best for me
Blue to green works best for me
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Christie's Art Auctions , by Dexter Bulldog on Sept 20, 2017 19:02:20 GMT 1, Blue to green works best for me
Blue to green works best for me agreed |
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Pipes
Junior Member
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January 2012
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Christie's Art Auctions , by Pipes on Sept 20, 2017 20:39:32 GMT 1, 
Obviously not mine!
Obviously not mine! |
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Hubble Bubble
Junior Member
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December 2010
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Christie's Art Auctions , by Hubble Bubble on Sept 20, 2017 20:43:04 GMT 1, Obviously not mine!
Obviously not mine! And there are others. |
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Laugh Now 10
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February 2017
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Christie's Art Auctions , by Laugh Now 10 on Sept 20, 2017 20:57:01 GMT 1, Obviously not mine!
these are the AP gradient NOLAs, a complete set I believe - wow!
Obviously not mine! these are the AP gradient NOLAs, a complete set I believe - wow! |
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Unica
Junior Member
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November 2013
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Christie's Art Auctions , by Unica on Sept 20, 2017 21:42:56 GMT 1, From looking at the results of the Christies sale yesterday, doesn't look like there is a softening in the Banksy market. I can see the positives of this and the negatives, as I'd like to buy another print but getting a bit too pricey for me now.
From looking at the results of the Christies sale yesterday, doesn't look like there is a softening in the Banksy market. I can see the positives of this and the negatives, as I'd like to buy another print but getting a bit too pricey for me now.
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Laugh Now 10
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February 2017
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Christie's Art Auctions , by Laugh Now 10 on Sept 20, 2017 21:48:07 GMT 1, From looking at the results of the Christies sale yesterday, doesn't look like there is a softening in the Banksy market. I can see the positives of this and the negatives, as I'd like to buy another print but getting a bit too pricey for me now.
Totally agree with you + once the major museums start showing his work itโs GAME OVER...
From looking at the results of the Christies sale yesterday, doesn't look like there is a softening in the Banksy market. I can see the positives of this and the negatives, as I'd like to buy another print but getting a bit too pricey for me now. Totally agree with you + once the major museums start showing his work itโs GAME OVER... |
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Black Apple Art
Art Gallery
Junior Member
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September 2013
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Christie's Art Auctions , by Black Apple Art on Sept 20, 2017 22:06:26 GMT 1, Long overdue for a Tate retrospective exhibition if they can sort out their differences. No doubt would be their most successful show to date by a large margin. B still has their shop's top selling book and yet not a single mention or piece of work has ever been displayed (aside from the pieces B put up himself)
Long overdue for a Tate retrospective exhibition if they can sort out their differences. No doubt would be their most successful show to date by a large margin. B still has their shop's top selling book and yet not a single mention or piece of work has ever been displayed (aside from the pieces B put up himself)
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
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Christie's Art Auctions , by Deleted on Sept 21, 2017 2:14:03 GMT 1, Obviously not mine! these are the AP gradient NOLAs, a complete set I believe - wow!
The grey actually also has the same gradient at this orange version.
Obviously not mine! these are the AP gradient NOLAs, a complete set I believe - wow! The grey actually also has the same gradient at this orange version. |
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Pipes
Junior Member
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January 2012
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Christie's Art Auctions , by Pipes on Sept 21, 2017 2:32:51 GMT 1, these are the AP gradient NOLAs, a complete set I believe - wow! The grey actually also has the same gradient at this orange version.
Frantically googles...
these are the AP gradient NOLAs, a complete set I believe - wow! The grey actually also has the same gradient at this orange version. I didn't realise that. Frantically googles... |
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Laugh Now 10
New Member
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February 2017
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Christie's Art Auctions , by Laugh Now 10 on Sept 21, 2017 3:46:49 GMT 1, these are the AP gradient NOLAs, a complete set I believe - wow! The grey actually also has the same gradient at this orange version.
With all due respect, no, it doesnโt....
these are the AP gradient NOLAs, a complete set I believe - wow! The grey actually also has the same gradient at this orange version. With all due respect, no, it doesnโt.... |
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
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Christie's Art Auctions , by Deleted on Sept 21, 2017 4:04:04 GMT 1, The grey actually also has the same gradient at this orange version. With all due respect, no, it doesnโt.... 
The grey actually also has the same gradient at this orange version. With all due respect, no, it doesnโt.... What makes you say it doesn't? Here is a close up of my grey....Looks gradient to me |
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Loobaz
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July 2011
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Christie's Art Auctions , by Loobaz on Sept 21, 2017 10:17:31 GMT 1, Exactly, people always look at hammer price + buyers premium, but they should look at hammer price minus sellers Fee. That should give you the price range, since you as a buyer must deal with issues like authenticy, money transfer and shipping on a forum like this.
I would imagine peoples view changes on this subject depending on which side of the fence you are sitting on at that point in time (buyer vs seller mode).
The only thing I would comment on is that clearly the buyer was happy to pay the hammer price plus premium and therefore there could be other buyers prepared to do the same.
You cannot possibly say the seller was necessarily happy to let the work go at the hammer price less fees and therefore there might not be other sellers prepared to let the work go at this price.
I certainly agree with you to some extent, but in this sale, the most any buyer was willing to pay was ยฃ10k, and they paid more than any other buyer (in this sale) was willing to pay. I tend to see it as that buyer was willing to pay Christie's ยฃ10k for the print, with all of the protection (and perhaps even prestige) that offers. I dare say they might not be willing to pay the same amount to an unknown internet persona or eBay seller. I see the buyers premium as just that - a premium the buyer pays for buying from such a source. And sellers fees just the same.
And their happiness aside, the figure the seller achieved through such a prestigious, far reaching auction, is the figure they achieved. That was the most they could achieve that day using a facility that surely draws a larger number of intending buyers than forum/internet sales. Personally, I don't think a private sale could demand such prices, let alone far higher prices, as is the case with the ยฃ12k - ยฃ14k "valuations" for GR some members were throwing about just last month. These "valuations" tend to come with no facts to back them up, and could easily be coming from biassed sources.
(Case in point, someone recently asked for a Trolleys valuation, and someone immediately threw out ยฃ20k, with no evidence to back that up. I asked if there was any history of those prices, and referenced a major sale just 2 months before that achieved ยฃ13.7k with all fees included. I think facts need to be presented in some cases, and the old "I know of 2 sales at this price" doesn't constitute facts, imo)
Those are just my thoughts on it, but I completely understand where you're coming from and, as you know, hold what you say in very high regard. I'll get back in my box now.
Exactly, people always look at hammer price + buyers premium, but they should look at hammer price minus sellers Fee. That should give you the price range, since you as a buyer must deal with issues like authenticy, money transfer and shipping on a forum like this.
I would imagine peoples view changes on this subject depending on which side of the fence you are sitting on at that point in time (buyer vs seller mode).
The only thing I would comment on is that clearly the buyer was happy to pay the hammer price plus premium and therefore there could be other buyers prepared to do the same.
You cannot possibly say the seller was necessarily happy to let the work go at the hammer price less fees and therefore there might not be other sellers prepared to let the work go at this price.
Sorry to dig this up again, but I only just saw your response, N. I straddle both sides of this fence, and simply post in these instances to add a bit of perspective and some additional facts of the sales. I certainly agree with you to some extent, but in this sale, the most any buyer was willing to pay was ยฃ10k, and they paid more than any other buyer (in this sale) was willing to pay. I tend to see it as that buyer was willing to pay Christie's ยฃ10k for the print, with all of the protection (and perhaps even prestige) that offers. I dare say they might not be willing to pay the same amount to an unknown internet persona or eBay seller. I see the buyers premium as just that - a premium the buyer pays for buying from such a source. And sellers fees just the same. And their happiness aside, the figure the seller achieved through such a prestigious, far reaching auction, is the figure they achieved. That was the most they could achieve that day using a facility that surely draws a larger number of intending buyers than forum/internet sales. Personally, I don't think a private sale could demand such prices, let alone far higher prices, as is the case with the ยฃ12k - ยฃ14k "valuations" for GR some members were throwing about just last month. These "valuations" tend to come with no facts to back them up, and could easily be coming from biassed sources. (Case in point, someone recently asked for a Trolleys valuation, and someone immediately threw out ยฃ20k, with no evidence to back that up. I asked if there was any history of those prices, and referenced a major sale just 2 months before that achieved ยฃ13.7k with all fees included. I think facts need to be presented in some cases, and the old "I know of 2 sales at this price" doesn't constitute facts, imo) Those are just my thoughts on it, but I completely understand where you're coming from and, as you know, hold what you say in very high regard. I'll get back in my box now. |
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Hubble Bubble
Junior Member
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December 2010
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Christie's Art Auctions , by Hubble Bubble on Sept 21, 2017 11:38:29 GMT 1, By the way...
*declares interest
White Nolas are best. Pure and elegant.
Simples.
By the way... *declares interest White Nolas are best. Pure and elegant. Simples. |
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samfrost
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June 2014
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Christie's Art Auctions , by samfrost on Sept 21, 2017 13:07:56 GMT 1, Many people forget that houses have either 0% or low single digit commissions for these Banksy pieces....so no there isn't really any significant seller's fee to deduct. If you are a seller with these pieces you should negotiate this point.
Many people forget that houses have either 0% or low single digit commissions for these Banksy pieces....so no there isn't really any significant seller's fee to deduct. If you are a seller with these pieces you should negotiate this point.
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Pattycakes
Junior Member
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June 2007
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Christie's Art Auctions , by Pattycakes on Sept 21, 2017 13:19:15 GMT 1, Samfrost is correct here. Though in general it's very hard to get 0% but 5-6% is doable. Most houses only give 0% on particularly large/valuable consignments
Samfrost is correct here. Though in general it's very hard to get 0% but 5-6% is doable. Most houses only give 0% on particularly large/valuable consignments
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Loobaz
New Member
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July 2011
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Christie's Art Auctions , by Loobaz on Sept 21, 2017 13:25:00 GMT 1, Many people forget that houses have either 0% or low single digit commissions for these Banksy pieces....so no there isn't really any significant seller's fee to deduct. If you are a seller with these pieces you should negotiate this point.
That still doesn't negate the point about buyers premium, and also why I personally place a bit more importance on the actual hammer price.
Many people forget that houses have either 0% or low single digit commissions for these Banksy pieces....so no there isn't really any significant seller's fee to deduct. If you are a seller with these pieces you should negotiate this point. Of course. A very valid point, but in my experience this is moreso at the higher end of the scale than the lower, and more regularly with repeat sellers. But, it's certainly always worth bearing in mind. I also completely agree that at the very least all Banksy sellers should negotiate single digit percentages. That still doesn't negate the point about buyers premium, and also why I personally place a bit more importance on the actual hammer price. |
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pr.yu
New Member
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June 2017
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Christie's Art Auctions , by pr.yu on Sept 21, 2017 14:24:24 GMT 1, The worth of the item is related to the amount paid, in my opinion. When I buy things at auction, I am ALWAYS calculating the additional buyers premium in my mind. And my calculation is always "What am I willing to pay for this?" And that includes the buyers premium. The seller certainly isn't getting all that money (they're getting the hammer price minus commission, sometimes small, sometimes not). This is why, in my opinion, private sales should be for someplace in the middle of the hammer price and the hammer price+buyers premium. Both parties win then.
The worth of the item is related to the amount paid, in my opinion. When I buy things at auction, I am ALWAYS calculating the additional buyers premium in my mind. And my calculation is always "What am I willing to pay for this?" And that includes the buyers premium. The seller certainly isn't getting all that money (they're getting the hammer price minus commission, sometimes small, sometimes not). This is why, in my opinion, private sales should be for someplace in the middle of the hammer price and the hammer price+buyers premium. Both parties win then.
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Pattycakes
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,379
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June 2007
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Christie's Art Auctions , by Pattycakes on Sept 21, 2017 14:39:28 GMT 1, I sat in a sale the other day where someone paid ยฃ34,000 for something what they didn't realise was that it had full VAT on it, so their final bill was ยฃ34,000 plus 50% buyers premium - that's insane
I sat in a sale the other day where someone paid ยฃ34,000 for something what they didn't realise was that it had full VAT on it, so their final bill was ยฃ34,000 plus 50% buyers premium - that's insane
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Hubble Bubble
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 4,117
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December 2010
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Christie's Art Auctions , by Hubble Bubble on Sept 21, 2017 14:54:02 GMT 1, The worth of the item is related to the amount paid, in my opinion. When I buy things at auction, I am ALWAYS calculating the additional buyers premium in my mind. And my calculation is always "What am I willing to pay for this?" And that includes the buyers premium. The seller certainly isn't getting all that money (they're getting the hammer price minus commission, sometimes small, sometimes not). This is why, in my opinion, private sales should be for someplace in the middle of the hammer price and the hammer price+buyers premium. Both parties win then.
At last!!! Sense spoken on this subject.
The worth of the item is related to the amount paid, in my opinion. When I buy things at auction, I am ALWAYS calculating the additional buyers premium in my mind. And my calculation is always "What am I willing to pay for this?" And that includes the buyers premium. The seller certainly isn't getting all that money (they're getting the hammer price minus commission, sometimes small, sometimes not). This is why, in my opinion, private sales should be for someplace in the middle of the hammer price and the hammer price+buyers premium. Both parties win then. At last!!! Sense spoken on this subject. |
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Christie's Art Auctions , by Dexter Bulldog on Sept 21, 2017 15:22:41 GMT 1, The worth of the item is related to the amount paid, in my opinion. When I buy things at auction, I am ALWAYS calculating the additional buyers premium in my mind. And my calculation is always "What am I willing to pay for this?" And that includes the buyers premium. The seller certainly isn't getting all that money (they're getting the hammer price minus commission, sometimes small, sometimes not). This is why, in my opinion, private sales should be for someplace in the middle of the hammer price and the hammer price+buyers premium. Both parties win then. At last!!! Sense spoken on this subject.
but theres just not that many banksys for sale, so i lean towards they are worth what the buyer has to pay, including at auction, with the premium... if your house burns down and you lose your ap nola, and christies sells this one, doesnt matter if the seller got a little less than the buyer paid, youre going to have to pay that, or more, to get another one.. so thats what its "worth"
The worth of the item is related to the amount paid, in my opinion. When I buy things at auction, I am ALWAYS calculating the additional buyers premium in my mind. And my calculation is always "What am I willing to pay for this?" And that includes the buyers premium. The seller certainly isn't getting all that money (they're getting the hammer price minus commission, sometimes small, sometimes not). This is why, in my opinion, private sales should be for someplace in the middle of the hammer price and the hammer price+buyers premium. Both parties win then. At last!!! Sense spoken on this subject. i agree with this sentiment, especially with somethign like concert tickets on like stubhub. buyer and sellers both pay a spread and fair price would be if they can meet in the middle. but theres just not that many banksys for sale, so i lean towards they are worth what the buyer has to pay, including at auction, with the premium... if your house burns down and you lose your ap nola, and christies sells this one, doesnt matter if the seller got a little less than the buyer paid, youre going to have to pay that, or more, to get another one.. so thats what its "worth" |
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Laugh Now 10
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February 2017
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Christie's Art Auctions , by Laugh Now 10 on Sept 21, 2017 15:29:28 GMT 1, By the way... *declares interest White Nolas are best. Pure and elegant. Simples.
I like the White NOLAs a lot but since the original street piece had grey rain then the grey rain print is the most true to the original source piece....so, grey it is for me followed by the orange
By the way... *declares interest White Nolas are best. Pure and elegant. Simples. I like the White NOLAs a lot but since the original street piece had grey rain then the grey rain print is the most true to the original source piece....so, grey it is for me followed by the orange |
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cyberkid
Junior Member
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January 2015
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Christie's Art Auctions , by cyberkid on Sept 21, 2017 15:38:38 GMT 1, By the way... *declares interest White Nolas are best. Pure and elegant. Simples. I like the White NOLAs a lot but since the original street piece had grey rain then the grey rain print is the most true to the original source piece....so, grey it is for me followed by the orange
white and grey are the best without doubt. i dont care about numbers and how rare the prints are.
gwb: gwb red balloon is much more better than the golden balloon or the claret balloon....imo...
By the way... *declares interest White Nolas are best. Pure and elegant. Simples. I like the White NOLAs a lot but since the original street piece had grey rain then the grey rain print is the most true to the original source piece....so, grey it is for me followed by the orange white and grey are the best without doubt. i dont care about numbers and how rare the prints are. gwb: gwb red balloon is much more better than the golden balloon or the claret balloon....imo... |
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Pipes
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,438
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January 2012
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Christie's Art Auctions , by Pipes on Sept 21, 2017 19:51:27 GMT 1, Whats that pink one?
*edit* post was deleted by OP - image below
Whats that pink one?
*edit* post was deleted by OP - image below
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Pipes
Junior Member
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January 2012
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Christie's Art Auctions , by Pipes on Sept 21, 2017 19:53:25 GMT 1, 
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although i always thoght the burgandy/green was cool looking..ย 
