Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
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January 1970
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Lazarus II
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,804
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August 2019
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Christie's Art Auctions , by Lazarus II on Mar 29, 2021 15:37:32 GMT 1, They're still worthless repros. to be fair he did the change the record. Up until about 18-24 months ago most of Bobbys posts were telling us that unsigned Bankay prints were worthless pieces of tatt.
yet some of them worth more than your coveted Stop
And Search.
They're still worthless repros. to be fair he did the change the record. Up until about 18-24 months ago most of Bobbys posts were telling us that unsigned Bankay prints were worthless pieces of tatt. yet some of them worth more than your coveted Stop And Search. |
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Harveyn
Full Member
๐จ๏ธ 7,746
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July 2007
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Christie's Art Auctions , by Harveyn on Mar 29, 2021 15:49:25 GMT 1, There has been a monumental fuck up with their First Open: Post-War & Contemporary Art Online auction. The closing times kept changing as they were having technical issues related to the synchronisation of their platforms with UK Daylight Savings time.
They have had to extend the auction closing by 24hrs.
Hopefully they will have fixed their technical issues before their Banksy sale is due to finish.
There has been a monumental fuck up with their First Open: Post-War & Contemporary Art Online auction. The closing times kept changing as they were having technical issues related to the synchronisation of their platforms with UK Daylight Savings time.
They have had to extend the auction closing by 24hrs.
Hopefully they will have fixed their technical issues before their Banksy sale is due to finish.
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LJCal
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,984
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Member is Online
December 2019
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Christie's Art Auctions , by LJCal on Mar 29, 2021 16:11:12 GMT 1, I'm thinking of trying to list a few pieces with them this year or early next year. Are you willing to share details about how happy you were with the process and the seller's fee they offered? I have got a print in this sale and expected a bit more activity thus far with only two days left, but like someone posted above, it is where the bidding ends that matters, not where it starts. I was surprised by the high starting bids on the unsigned prints (mine is U/S), but the curator from Christie's reckons Sothebys always start way lower than the reserve price, whereas Christie's start bidding at the reserve and are much more realistic about their estimates than Sothebys are. I am not convinced that mine will do as well as the guy led me to believe, but at the end of the day, I have had a bid on mine and I said at the start that if it sells at reserve I gotta be happy because I paid 75 quid for it from POW. I wonder if the market may cool for a while after this sale . Unsigned prints have doubled in price since lockdown, wondering if the value may plateau for a good while. This auction should be a good litmus test to at least gauge some idea of where the market is heading in the short term. After a week of the sale and seeing so few having bids I asked the curator if sale activity was where he thought it would be and he said it was exactly where he thought it would be - he also said that after Game Changer sold, there would be a bit of a bidding frenzy....that certainly hasn't materialised yet
I'm thinking of trying to list a few pieces with them this year or early next year. Are you willing to share details about how happy you were with the process and the seller's fee they offered? I have got a print in this sale and expected a bit more activity thus far with only two days left, but like someone posted above, it is where the bidding ends that matters, not where it starts. I was surprised by the high starting bids on the unsigned prints (mine is U/S), but the curator from Christie's reckons Sothebys always start way lower than the reserve price, whereas Christie's start bidding at the reserve and are much more realistic about their estimates than Sothebys are. I am not convinced that mine will do as well as the guy led me to believe, but at the end of the day, I have had a bid on mine and I said at the start that if it sells at reserve I gotta be happy because I paid 75 quid for it from POW. I wonder if the market may cool for a while after this sale . Unsigned prints have doubled in price since lockdown, wondering if the value may plateau for a good while. This auction should be a good litmus test to at least gauge some idea of where the market is heading in the short term. After a week of the sale and seeing so few having bids I asked the curator if sale activity was where he thought it would be and he said it was exactly where he thought it would be - he also said that after Game Changer sold, there would be a bit of a bidding frenzy....that certainly hasn't materialised yet My two cents, I have never been impressed with Christie's as a seller, I offered to consign a few not bad lots and they wouldn't negotiate on seller fees which were insanely high (15%) and they took ages to come back to me. I have had far better experiences with Phillips and Sotheby's and the results have been good. |
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Poster Bob
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 5,891
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September 2013
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Christie's Art Auctions , by Poster Bob on Mar 29, 2021 16:15:54 GMT 1, I know that you, like most other people who get defensive about unsigned prints, are doing so because you feel that I'm directly attacking something that you hold dear, both literally and figuratively.
The fact remains that the unsigned market is a completely novel concept and you will be unable to find a single art advisor worth their salt (not Maddox or some sleazy Wall Street type asking for "A1 minty-fresh prints") advising people to buy them as investments.
I cannot think of any noteworthy examples of this phenomenon in the entire art world besides Banksy, Basquiat and HENI prints. We're all aware that large proportions of these runs are purchased by speculators who only have short-term returns in mind. You can question me all you want, but it's unprecedented, unpredictable, and the prints do not hold any perceived value. Recent auction results are not indicative that they will continue to appreciate or hold their value with time. Unsold prints are being sold to an entirely different sort of collector and we can't yet determine what's going to happen.
Anyone holding unsigned prints should sell them to fund the purchase of signed work.
Get as defensive as you want, quote as many closed auctions as you want. It's not going to change my opinion and that of many well-informed people.
They're still worthless repros. yet some of them worth more than your coveted Stop And Search.
I know that you, like most other people who get defensive about unsigned prints, are doing so because you feel that I'm directly attacking something that you hold dear, both literally and figuratively. The fact remains that the unsigned market is a completely novel concept and you will be unable to find a single art advisor worth their salt (not Maddox or some sleazy Wall Street type asking for "A1 minty-fresh prints") advising people to buy them as investments. I cannot think of any noteworthy examples of this phenomenon in the entire art world besides Banksy, Basquiat and HENI prints. We're all aware that large proportions of these runs are purchased by speculators who only have short-term returns in mind. You can question me all you want, but it's unprecedented, unpredictable, and the prints do not hold any perceived value. Recent auction results are not indicative that they will continue to appreciate or hold their value with time. Unsold prints are being sold to an entirely different sort of collector and we can't yet determine what's going to happen. Anyone holding unsigned prints should sell them to fund the purchase of signed work. Get as defensive as you want, quote as many closed auctions as you want. It's not going to change my opinion and that of many well-informed people. They're still worthless repros. yet some of them worth more than your coveted Stop And Search. |
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LJCal
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,984
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Member is Online
December 2019
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Christie's Art Auctions , by LJCal on Mar 29, 2021 16:16:19 GMT 1, I bet a few of the people at Christies will be sweating quite a bit at the minimal amount of opening bids they have received on a large percentage of the prints Over 70% of the lots in the Banksy sale have opening bids - you guys are just trying to talk it down right?
I bet a few of the people at Christies will be sweating quite a bit at the minimal amount of opening bids they have received on a large percentage of the prints Over 70% of the lots in the Banksy sale have opening bids - you guys are just trying to talk it down right? I don't think so, I genuinely think they've fucked this one up with high starting bids, the psychology of attractive estimates is tried and tested and usually ends with better results as more bidders end up invested in the lot. |
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irl1
Full Member
๐จ๏ธ 9,274
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December 2017
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Christie's Art Auctions , by irl1 on Mar 29, 2021 16:24:31 GMT 1, Over 70% of the lots in the Banksy sale have opening bids - you guys are just trying to talk it down right? I don't think so, I genuinely think they've fucked this one up with high starting bids, the psychology of attractive estimates is tried and tested and usually ends with better results as more bidders end up invested in the lot.
Maybe some sellers are not happy with low estimates, more so with the 1% performance fee for meeting the high estimate
Over 70% of the lots in the Banksy sale have opening bids - you guys are just trying to talk it down right? I don't think so, I genuinely think they've fucked this one up with high starting bids, the psychology of attractive estimates is tried and tested and usually ends with better results as more bidders end up invested in the lot. Maybe some sellers are not happy with low estimates, more so with the 1% performance fee for meeting the high estimate |
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
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January 1970
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Christie's Art Auctions , by Deleted on Mar 29, 2021 16:28:09 GMT 1, I thought Christies were brave to start with and anticipated the bidding would be slow, but with 29% of lots without a single bid and only 21ish hours left, they have surely made a huge mistake here. Bids may all come flooding in, in the last 60/30/15/5 minutes, but that's some big gamble to take!
Those with current bids should be OK I reckon, but attracting the required attention and steady flow of bids in less than 24 hours for the remaining isn't ideal. At the end of the day, if they only receive bids in the last half hour, its "no different" to a traditional auction, but you don't have anyone at a rostrum to encourage the bids or even adjust the increments to react to a slowing down of bidding to get the best price. Someone might be tempted to bid an extra ยฃ2000 on a piece, but a sale could fall short of the best price if the bidding increments are stuck to 5k, 10k, 20k etc.
Its going to be an interesting afternoon tomorrow!
I thought Christies were brave to start with and anticipated the bidding would be slow, but with 29% of lots without a single bid and only 21ish hours left, they have surely made a huge mistake here. Bids may all come flooding in, in the last 60/30/15/5 minutes, but that's some big gamble to take!
Those with current bids should be OK I reckon, but attracting the required attention and steady flow of bids in less than 24 hours for the remaining isn't ideal. At the end of the day, if they only receive bids in the last half hour, its "no different" to a traditional auction, but you don't have anyone at a rostrum to encourage the bids or even adjust the increments to react to a slowing down of bidding to get the best price. Someone might be tempted to bid an extra ยฃ2000 on a piece, but a sale could fall short of the best price if the bidding increments are stuck to 5k, 10k, 20k etc.
Its going to be an interesting afternoon tomorrow!
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Lazarus II
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,804
๐๐ป 2,429
August 2019
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Christie's Art Auctions , by Lazarus II on Mar 29, 2021 16:48:52 GMT 1, I know that you, like most other people who get defensive about unsigned prints, are doing so because you feel that I'm directly attacking something that you hold dear, both literally and figuratively. The fact remains that the unsigned market is a completely novel concept and you will be unable to find a single art advisor worth their salt (not Maddox or some sleazy Wall Street type asking for "A1 minty-fresh prints") advising people to buy them as investments. I cannot think of any noteworthy examples of this phenomenon in the entire art world besides Banksy, Basquiat and HENI prints. We're all aware that large proportions of these runs are purchased by speculators who only have short-term returns in mind. You can question me all you want, but it's unprecedented, unpredictable, and the prints do not hold any perceived value. Recent auction results are not indicative that they will continue to appreciate or hold their value with time. Unsold prints are being sold to an entirely different sort of collector and we can't yet determine what's going to happen. Anyone holding unsigned prints should sell them to fund the purchase of signed work. Get as defensive as you want, quote as many closed auctions as you want. It's not going to change my opinion and that of many well-informed people. yet some of them worth more than your coveted Stop And Search.
iโm not being defensive, im just disputing that all unsigned prints are worthless. They may devalue in time but right now the cheapest unsigned print is worth say ยฃ15k and a couple of unsigned prints sell for over ยฃ100k, none of these values are worthless at present. Even if the arse fell out of the market, its unlikely that the higher end unsigned prints will ever be worthless.
I know that you, like most other people who get defensive about unsigned prints, are doing so because you feel that I'm directly attacking something that you hold dear, both literally and figuratively. The fact remains that the unsigned market is a completely novel concept and you will be unable to find a single art advisor worth their salt (not Maddox or some sleazy Wall Street type asking for "A1 minty-fresh prints") advising people to buy them as investments. I cannot think of any noteworthy examples of this phenomenon in the entire art world besides Banksy, Basquiat and HENI prints. We're all aware that large proportions of these runs are purchased by speculators who only have short-term returns in mind. You can question me all you want, but it's unprecedented, unpredictable, and the prints do not hold any perceived value. Recent auction results are not indicative that they will continue to appreciate or hold their value with time. Unsold prints are being sold to an entirely different sort of collector and we can't yet determine what's going to happen. Anyone holding unsigned prints should sell them to fund the purchase of signed work. Get as defensive as you want, quote as many closed auctions as you want. It's not going to change my opinion and that of many well-informed people. yet some of them worth more than your coveted Stop And Search. iโm not being defensive, im just disputing that all unsigned prints are worthless. They may devalue in time but right now the cheapest unsigned print is worth say ยฃ15k and a couple of unsigned prints sell for over ยฃ100k, none of these values are worthless at present. Even if the arse fell out of the market, its unlikely that the higher end unsigned prints will ever be worthless. |
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Fuzzyduck121
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,305
๐๐ป 1,223
December 2011
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Christie's Art Auctions , by Fuzzyduck121 on Mar 29, 2021 16:49:50 GMT 1, I thought Christies were brave to start with and anticipated the bidding would be slow, but with 29% of lots without a single bid and only 21ish hours left, they have surely made a huge mistake here. Bids may all come flooding in, in the last 60/30/15/5 minutes, but that's some big gamble to take! Those with current bids should be OK I reckon, but attracting the required attention and steady flow of bids in less than 24 hours for the remaining isn't ideal. At the end of the day, if they only receive bids in the last half hour, its "no different" to a traditional auction, but you don't have anyone at a rostrum to encourage the bids or even adjust the increments to react to a slowing down of bidding to get the best price. Someone might be tempted to bid an extra ยฃ2000 on a piece, but a sale could fall short of the best price if the bidding increments are stuck to 5k, 10k, 20k etc. Its going to be an interesting afternoon tomorrow!
You do realise in an actual auction every bid comes on the day
In fact all at the exact minute the lot Is available
The bids now have zero relation to the final level of interest
Your post is badly informed
I thought Christies were brave to start with and anticipated the bidding would be slow, but with 29% of lots without a single bid and only 21ish hours left, they have surely made a huge mistake here. Bids may all come flooding in, in the last 60/30/15/5 minutes, but that's some big gamble to take! Those with current bids should be OK I reckon, but attracting the required attention and steady flow of bids in less than 24 hours for the remaining isn't ideal. At the end of the day, if they only receive bids in the last half hour, its "no different" to a traditional auction, but you don't have anyone at a rostrum to encourage the bids or even adjust the increments to react to a slowing down of bidding to get the best price. Someone might be tempted to bid an extra ยฃ2000 on a piece, but a sale could fall short of the best price if the bidding increments are stuck to 5k, 10k, 20k etc. Its going to be an interesting afternoon tomorrow! You do realise in an actual auction every bid comes on the day In fact all at the exact minute the lot Is available The bids now have zero relation to the final level of interest Your post is badly informed |
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Graham H
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,304
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November 2012
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Christie's Art Auctions , by Graham H on Mar 29, 2021 16:50:52 GMT 1, Why would I be trying to talk it down..I wont be bidding on anything and I dont have anything in the auction..
I was merely comparing the two different auction strategies..
If you look back a few days, I can be quoted as saying its what they finish at rather than what they start at..
As of this moment there are 14 / 47 ( around 30% ) with no bids on and the lowering of opening prices which im sure is not a position they thought they would be in
Just to flip it the other way, the ยฃ380k bids on the signed Liita will potentially be the record for this print as the last one sold for $687500 all in, which depending on the GBP / USD rate is around ยฃ510k.. which if i am correct is round about where the ยฃ380k takes it to in this auction
I bet a few of the people at Christies will be sweating quite a bit at the minimal amount of opening bids they have received on a large percentage of the prints Over 70% of the lots in the Banksy sale have opening bids - you guys are just trying to talk it down right?
Why would I be trying to talk it down..I wont be bidding on anything and I dont have anything in the auction.. I was merely comparing the two different auction strategies.. If you look back a few days, I can be quoted as saying its what they finish at rather than what they start at.. As of this moment there are 14 / 47 ( around 30% ) with no bids on and the lowering of opening prices which im sure is not a position they thought they would be in Just to flip it the other way, the ยฃ380k bids on the signed Liita will potentially be the record for this print as the last one sold for $687500 all in, which depending on the GBP / USD rate is around ยฃ510k.. which if i am correct is round about where the ยฃ380k takes it to in this auction I bet a few of the people at Christies will be sweating quite a bit at the minimal amount of opening bids they have received on a large percentage of the prints Over 70% of the lots in the Banksy sale have opening bids - you guys are just trying to talk it down right? |
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
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Christie's Art Auctions , by Deleted on Mar 29, 2021 16:55:40 GMT 1, I thought Christies were brave to start with and anticipated the bidding would be slow, but with 29% of lots without a single bid and only 21ish hours left, they have surely made a huge mistake here. Bids may all come flooding in, in the last 60/30/15/5 minutes, but that's some big gamble to take! Those with current bids should be OK I reckon, but attracting the required attention and steady flow of bids in less than 24 hours for the remaining isn't ideal. At the end of the day, if they only receive bids in the last half hour, its "no different" to a traditional auction, but you don't have anyone at a rostrum to encourage the bids or even adjust the increments to react to a slowing down of bidding to get the best price. Someone might be tempted to bid an extra ยฃ2000 on a piece, but a sale could fall short of the best price if the bidding increments are stuck to 5k, 10k, 20k etc. Its going to be an interesting afternoon tomorrow! You do realise in an actual auction every bid comes on the day In fact all at the exact minute the lot Is available The bids now have zero relation to the final level of interest Your post is badly informed
Sothebys also pulled a few prints from their recent online auction, and reduced starting bids by ยฃ30,000 due to low bids, this then got some interest and momentum.
We'll all see how Christies tactic plays out tomorrow afternoon, then we can ALL be informed, including you.
I thought Christies were brave to start with and anticipated the bidding would be slow, but with 29% of lots without a single bid and only 21ish hours left, they have surely made a huge mistake here. Bids may all come flooding in, in the last 60/30/15/5 minutes, but that's some big gamble to take! Those with current bids should be OK I reckon, but attracting the required attention and steady flow of bids in less than 24 hours for the remaining isn't ideal. At the end of the day, if they only receive bids in the last half hour, its "no different" to a traditional auction, but you don't have anyone at a rostrum to encourage the bids or even adjust the increments to react to a slowing down of bidding to get the best price. Someone might be tempted to bid an extra ยฃ2000 on a piece, but a sale could fall short of the best price if the bidding increments are stuck to 5k, 10k, 20k etc. Its going to be an interesting afternoon tomorrow! You do realise in an actual auction every bid comes on the day In fact all at the exact minute the lot Is available The bids now have zero relation to the final level of interest Your post is badly informed Do you fancy re-reading the latter part of my post? Sothebys also pulled a few prints from their recent online auction, and reduced starting bids by ยฃ30,000 due to low bids, this then got some interest and momentum. We'll all see how Christies tactic plays out tomorrow afternoon, then we can ALL be informed, including you. |
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laughn0w
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 106
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May 2020
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Christie's Art Auctions , by laughn0w on Mar 29, 2021 17:09:46 GMT 1, Read into it what you will but the starting bid amount for signed Laugh Now, CWSB, Very Little Helps, Grin Reaper and unsigned Girl With Balloon have all been lowered today. The LN now has a bid.
Read into it what you will but the starting bid amount for signed Laugh Now, CWSB, Very Little Helps, Grin Reaper and unsigned Girl With Balloon have all been lowered today. The LN now has a bid.
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samo
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,512
๐๐ป 1,210
October 2007
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Christie's Art Auctions , by samo on Mar 29, 2021 17:13:02 GMT 1, I thought Christies were brave to start with and anticipated the bidding would be slow, but with 29% of lots without a single bid and only 21ish hours left, they have surely made a huge mistake here. Bids may all come flooding in, in the last 60/30/15/5 minutes, but that's some big gamble to take! Those with current bids should be OK I reckon, but attracting the required attention and steady flow of bids in less than 24 hours for the remaining isn't ideal. At the end of the day, if they only receive bids in the last half hour, its "no different" to a traditional auction, but you don't have anyone at a rostrum to encourage the bids or even adjust the increments to react to a slowing down of bidding to get the best price. Someone might be tempted to bid an extra ยฃ2000 on a piece, but a sale could fall short of the best price if the bidding increments are stuck to 5k, 10k, 20k etc. Its going to be an interesting afternoon tomorrow! Lowering some starting bids with 20k, a day before the auction ends such as with Grin Reaper.
Does looks a bit like a panic move.
I thought Christies were brave to start with and anticipated the bidding would be slow, but with 29% of lots without a single bid and only 21ish hours left, they have surely made a huge mistake here. Bids may all come flooding in, in the last 60/30/15/5 minutes, but that's some big gamble to take! Those with current bids should be OK I reckon, but attracting the required attention and steady flow of bids in less than 24 hours for the remaining isn't ideal. At the end of the day, if they only receive bids in the last half hour, its "no different" to a traditional auction, but you don't have anyone at a rostrum to encourage the bids or even adjust the increments to react to a slowing down of bidding to get the best price. Someone might be tempted to bid an extra ยฃ2000 on a piece, but a sale could fall short of the best price if the bidding increments are stuck to 5k, 10k, 20k etc. Its going to be an interesting afternoon tomorrow! Lowering some starting bids with 20k, a day before the auction ends such as with Grin Reaper.
Does looks a bit like a panic move.
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Fuzzyduck121
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,305
๐๐ป 1,223
December 2011
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Christie's Art Auctions , by Fuzzyduck121 on Mar 29, 2021 17:21:51 GMT 1, You do realise in an actual auction every bid comes on the day In fact all at the exact minute the lot Is available The bids now have zero relation to the final level of interest Your post is badly informed Do you fancy re-reading the latter part of my post? Sothebys also pulled a few prints from their recent online auction, and reduced starting bids by ยฃ30,000 due to low bids, this then got some interest and momentum. We'll all see how Christies tactic plays out tomorrow afternoon, then we can ALL be informed, including you.
You seem to post only things in relation to values and specifically of Banksy works
Iโm guessing you have a lot riding on this train?
Most of us long term collectors with a large number of pieces purchased from POW or PC over the last 20 years donโt seem to have your worries
Take a chill pill , and if you want guaranteed returns and a safe bet then donโt buy art
This is the Wild West of investments bud
You do realise in an actual auction every bid comes on the day In fact all at the exact minute the lot Is available The bids now have zero relation to the final level of interest Your post is badly informed Do you fancy re-reading the latter part of my post? Sothebys also pulled a few prints from their recent online auction, and reduced starting bids by ยฃ30,000 due to low bids, this then got some interest and momentum. We'll all see how Christies tactic plays out tomorrow afternoon, then we can ALL be informed, including you. You seem to post only things in relation to values and specifically of Banksy works Iโm guessing you have a lot riding on this train? Most of us long term collectors with a large number of pieces purchased from POW or PC over the last 20 years donโt seem to have your worries Take a chill pill , and if you want guaranteed returns and a safe bet then donโt buy art This is the Wild West of investments bud |
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Poster Bob
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 5,891
๐๐ป 5,527
September 2013
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Christie's Art Auctions , by Poster Bob on Mar 29, 2021 17:24:54 GMT 1, It isn't a panic move. Artnet does it frequently and it's designed to increase competition.
I thought Christies were brave to start with and anticipated the bidding would be slow, but with 29% of lots without a single bid and only 21ish hours left, they have surely made a huge mistake here. Bids may all come flooding in, in the last 60/30/15/5 minutes, but that's some big gamble to take! Those with current bids should be OK I reckon, but attracting the required attention and steady flow of bids in less than 24 hours for the remaining isn't ideal. At the end of the day, if they only receive bids in the last half hour, its "no different" to a traditional auction, but you don't have anyone at a rostrum to encourage the bids or even adjust the increments to react to a slowing down of bidding to get the best price. Someone might be tempted to bid an extra ยฃ2000 on a piece, but a sale could fall short of the best price if the bidding increments are stuck to 5k, 10k, 20k etc. Its going to be an interesting afternoon tomorrow! Lowering some starting bids with 20k, a day before the auction ends such as with Grin Reaper.
Does looks a bit like a panic move.
It isn't a panic move. Artnet does it frequently and it's designed to increase competition. I thought Christies were brave to start with and anticipated the bidding would be slow, but with 29% of lots without a single bid and only 21ish hours left, they have surely made a huge mistake here. Bids may all come flooding in, in the last 60/30/15/5 minutes, but that's some big gamble to take! Those with current bids should be OK I reckon, but attracting the required attention and steady flow of bids in less than 24 hours for the remaining isn't ideal. At the end of the day, if they only receive bids in the last half hour, its "no different" to a traditional auction, but you don't have anyone at a rostrum to encourage the bids or even adjust the increments to react to a slowing down of bidding to get the best price. Someone might be tempted to bid an extra ยฃ2000 on a piece, but a sale could fall short of the best price if the bidding increments are stuck to 5k, 10k, 20k etc. Its going to be an interesting afternoon tomorrow! Lowering some starting bids with 20k, a day before the auction ends such as with Grin Reaper.
Does looks a bit like a panic move.
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Poster Bob
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 5,891
๐๐ป 5,527
September 2013
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Christie's Art Auctions , by Poster Bob on Mar 29, 2021 17:25:31 GMT 1, I like hyperbole and they're worthless tat.
I know that you, like most other people who get defensive about unsigned prints, are doing so because you feel that I'm directly attacking something that you hold dear, both literally and figuratively. The fact remains that the unsigned market is a completely novel concept and you will be unable to find a single art advisor worth their salt (not Maddox or some sleazy Wall Street type asking for "A1 minty-fresh prints") advising people to buy them as investments. I cannot think of any noteworthy examples of this phenomenon in the entire art world besides Banksy, Basquiat and HENI prints. We're all aware that large proportions of these runs are purchased by speculators who only have short-term returns in mind. You can question me all you want, but it's unprecedented, unpredictable, and the prints do not hold any perceived value. Recent auction results are not indicative that they will continue to appreciate or hold their value with time. Unsold prints are being sold to an entirely different sort of collector and we can't yet determine what's going to happen. Anyone holding unsigned prints should sell them to fund the purchase of signed work. Get as defensive as you want, quote as many closed auctions as you want. It's not going to change my opinion and that of many well-informed people. iโm not being defensive, im just disputing that all unsigned prints are worthless. They may devalue in time but right now the cheapest unsigned print is worth say ยฃ15k and a couple of unsigned prints sell for over ยฃ100k, none of these values are worthless at present. Even if the arse fell out of the market, its unlikely that the higher end unsigned prints will ever be worthless.
I like hyperbole and they're worthless tat. I know that you, like most other people who get defensive about unsigned prints, are doing so because you feel that I'm directly attacking something that you hold dear, both literally and figuratively. The fact remains that the unsigned market is a completely novel concept and you will be unable to find a single art advisor worth their salt (not Maddox or some sleazy Wall Street type asking for "A1 minty-fresh prints") advising people to buy them as investments. I cannot think of any noteworthy examples of this phenomenon in the entire art world besides Banksy, Basquiat and HENI prints. We're all aware that large proportions of these runs are purchased by speculators who only have short-term returns in mind. You can question me all you want, but it's unprecedented, unpredictable, and the prints do not hold any perceived value. Recent auction results are not indicative that they will continue to appreciate or hold their value with time. Unsold prints are being sold to an entirely different sort of collector and we can't yet determine what's going to happen. Anyone holding unsigned prints should sell them to fund the purchase of signed work. Get as defensive as you want, quote as many closed auctions as you want. It's not going to change my opinion and that of many well-informed people. iโm not being defensive, im just disputing that all unsigned prints are worthless. They may devalue in time but right now the cheapest unsigned print is worth say ยฃ15k and a couple of unsigned prints sell for over ยฃ100k, none of these values are worthless at present. Even if the arse fell out of the market, its unlikely that the higher end unsigned prints will ever be worthless. |
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Christie's Art Auctions , by Deleted on Mar 29, 2021 17:33:33 GMT 1, Do you fancy re-reading the latter part of my post? Sothebys also pulled a few prints from their recent online auction, and reduced starting bids by ยฃ30,000 due to low bids, this then got some interest and momentum. We'll all see how Christies tactic plays out tomorrow afternoon, then we can ALL be informed, including you. You seem to post only things in relation to values and specifically of Banksy works Iโm guessing you have a lot riding on this train? Most of us long term collectors with a large number of pieces purchased from POW or PC over the last 20 years donโt seem to have your worries Take a chill pill , and if you want guaranteed returns and a safe bet then donโt buy art This is the Wild West of investments bud
Well, that's a whole shit load of assumptions. I have been an avid fan of Banksy since 2006. I have a lot of Banksy knowledge. I was on this forum from 2006 until about 2009 and left because of the massive volume of arseholes who used to frequent the site and tell people their opinions were wrong and just being general dicks (it's much better now). But if there are still people here who want to tell me my opinion is incorrect, I'll leave again. I'll happily be corrected with facts, but I'm too long in the tooth to put up with assumptions and corrections on personal beliefs.
Do you fancy re-reading the latter part of my post? Sothebys also pulled a few prints from their recent online auction, and reduced starting bids by ยฃ30,000 due to low bids, this then got some interest and momentum. We'll all see how Christies tactic plays out tomorrow afternoon, then we can ALL be informed, including you. You seem to post only things in relation to values and specifically of Banksy works Iโm guessing you have a lot riding on this train? Most of us long term collectors with a large number of pieces purchased from POW or PC over the last 20 years donโt seem to have your worries Take a chill pill , and if you want guaranteed returns and a safe bet then donโt buy art This is the Wild West of investments bud Well, that's a whole shit load of assumptions. I have been an avid fan of Banksy since 2006. I have a lot of Banksy knowledge. I was on this forum from 2006 until about 2009 and left because of the massive volume of arseholes who used to frequent the site and tell people their opinions were wrong and just being general dicks (it's much better now). But if there are still people here who want to tell me my opinion is incorrect, I'll leave again. I'll happily be corrected with facts, but I'm too long in the tooth to put up with assumptions and corrections on personal beliefs. |
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Christie's Art Auctions , by Deleted on Mar 29, 2021 17:35:03 GMT 1, I like hyperbole and they're worthless tat. iโm not being defensive, im just disputing that all unsigned prints are worthless. They may devalue in time but right now the cheapest unsigned print is worth say ยฃ15k and a couple of unsigned prints sell for over ยฃ100k, none of these values are worthless at present. Even if the arse fell out of the market, its unlikely that the higher end unsigned prints will ever be worthless.
Posterbob says they are worthless tat whilst he mops them up like a blue whale mops up krill.
Posterbob repeats process
Posterbob retires.
I like hyperbole and they're worthless tat. iโm not being defensive, im just disputing that all unsigned prints are worthless. They may devalue in time but right now the cheapest unsigned print is worth say ยฃ15k and a couple of unsigned prints sell for over ยฃ100k, none of these values are worthless at present. Even if the arse fell out of the market, its unlikely that the higher end unsigned prints will ever be worthless. Posterbob says they are worthless tat whilst he mops them up like a blue whale mops up krill. Posterbob repeats process Posterbob retires. |
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Fuzzyduck121
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Christie's Art Auctions , by Fuzzyduck121 on Mar 29, 2021 17:50:22 GMT 1, You seem to post only things in relation to values and specifically of Banksy works Iโm guessing you have a lot riding on this train? Most of us long term collectors with a large number of pieces purchased from POW or PC over the last 20 years donโt seem to have your worries Take a chill pill , and if you want guaranteed returns and a safe bet then donโt buy art This is the Wild West of investments bud Well, that's a whole shit load of assumptions. I have been an avid fan of Banksy since 2006. I have a lot of Banksy knowledge. I was on this forum from 2006 until about 2009 and left because of the massive volume of arseholes who used to frequent the site and tell people their opinions were wrong and just being general dicks (it's much better now). But if there are still people here who want to tell me my opinion is incorrect, I'll leave again. I'll happily be corrected with facts, but I'm too long in the tooth to put up with assumptions and corrections on personal beliefs.
If your opinion is that the auction tomorrow is a doomed failure because of the lack of bids 24 hours before then I disagree with you .
You seem to post only things in relation to values and specifically of Banksy works Iโm guessing you have a lot riding on this train? Most of us long term collectors with a large number of pieces purchased from POW or PC over the last 20 years donโt seem to have your worries Take a chill pill , and if you want guaranteed returns and a safe bet then donโt buy art This is the Wild West of investments bud Well, that's a whole shit load of assumptions. I have been an avid fan of Banksy since 2006. I have a lot of Banksy knowledge. I was on this forum from 2006 until about 2009 and left because of the massive volume of arseholes who used to frequent the site and tell people their opinions were wrong and just being general dicks (it's much better now). But if there are still people here who want to tell me my opinion is incorrect, I'll leave again. I'll happily be corrected with facts, but I'm too long in the tooth to put up with assumptions and corrections on personal beliefs. If your opinion is that the auction tomorrow is a doomed failure because of the lack of bids 24 hours before then I disagree with you . |
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Poster Bob
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Christie's Art Auctions , by Poster Bob on Mar 29, 2021 17:58:42 GMT 1, As it so happens, I'm a year and eight months away from retirement.
I like hyperbole and they're worthless tat. Posterbob says they are worthless tat whilst he mops them up like a blue whale mops up krill. Posterbob repeats process Posterbob retires.
As it so happens, I'm a year and eight months away from retirement. I like hyperbole and they're worthless tat. Posterbob says they are worthless tat whilst he mops them up like a blue whale mops up krill. Posterbob repeats process Posterbob retires. |
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F*X
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Christie's Art Auctions , by F*X on Mar 29, 2021 19:01:04 GMT 1, As it so happens, I'm a year and eight months away from retirement. Posterbob says they are worthless tat whilst he mops them up like a blue whale mops up krill. Posterbob repeats process Posterbob retires. 
As it so happens, I'm a year and eight months away from retirement. Posterbob says they are worthless tat whilst he mops them up like a blue whale mops up krill. Posterbob repeats process Posterbob retires. You are only 37 though |
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Lazarus II
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Christie's Art Auctions , by Lazarus II on Mar 29, 2021 19:16:04 GMT 1, As it so happens, I'm a year and eight months away from retirement. You are only 37 though
although still more than happy to make a fair offer on anyones worthless unsigned tatt now that owners worldwide are sh!ttin their pants based on his words of wisdom above.
As it so happens, I'm a year and eight months away from retirement. You are only 37 though although still more than happy to make a fair offer on anyones worthless unsigned tatt now that owners worldwide are sh!ttin their pants based on his words of wisdom above. |
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LJCal
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Christie's Art Auctions , by LJCal on Mar 29, 2021 19:27:21 GMT 1, I don't think so, I genuinely think they've fucked this one up with high starting bids, the psychology of attractive estimates is tried and tested and usually ends with better results as more bidders end up invested in the lot. Maybe some sellers are not happy with low estimates, more so with the 1% performance fee for meeting the high estimate
I don't think so, I genuinely think they've fucked this one up with high starting bids, the psychology of attractive estimates is tried and tested and usually ends with better results as more bidders end up invested in the lot. Maybe some sellers are not happy with low estimates, more so with the 1% performance fee for meeting the high estimate Sure, in which case they should stop being greedy and drop this fee and set attractive estimates otherwise in my view theyโve done their clients a disservice. |
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LJCal
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Christie's Art Auctions , by LJCal on Mar 29, 2021 19:32:09 GMT 1, I thought Christies were brave to start with and anticipated the bidding would be slow, but with 29% of lots without a single bid and only 21ish hours left, they have surely made a huge mistake here. Bids may all come flooding in, in the last 60/30/15/5 minutes, but that's some big gamble to take! Those with current bids should be OK I reckon, but attracting the required attention and steady flow of bids in less than 24 hours for the remaining isn't ideal. At the end of the day, if they only receive bids in the last half hour, its "no different" to a traditional auction, but you don't have anyone at a rostrum to encourage the bids or even adjust the increments to react to a slowing down of bidding to get the best price. Someone might be tempted to bid an extra ยฃ2000 on a piece, but a sale could fall short of the best price if the bidding increments are stuck to 5k, 10k, 20k etc. Its going to be an interesting afternoon tomorrow! You do realise in an actual auction every bid comes on the day In fact all at the exact minute the lot Is available The bids now have zero relation to the final level of interest Your post is badly informed
I thought Christies were brave to start with and anticipated the bidding would be slow, but with 29% of lots without a single bid and only 21ish hours left, they have surely made a huge mistake here. Bids may all come flooding in, in the last 60/30/15/5 minutes, but that's some big gamble to take! Those with current bids should be OK I reckon, but attracting the required attention and steady flow of bids in less than 24 hours for the remaining isn't ideal. At the end of the day, if they only receive bids in the last half hour, its "no different" to a traditional auction, but you don't have anyone at a rostrum to encourage the bids or even adjust the increments to react to a slowing down of bidding to get the best price. Someone might be tempted to bid an extra ยฃ2000 on a piece, but a sale could fall short of the best price if the bidding increments are stuck to 5k, 10k, 20k etc. Its going to be an interesting afternoon tomorrow! You do realise in an actual auction every bid comes on the day In fact all at the exact minute the lot Is available The bids now have zero relation to the final level of interest Your post is badly informed The psychology of a timed and live auction is very different, generally itโs important lots get early heat and build compete traction rather than a couple of bidders hawking at the low estimate at the end. |
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Poster Bob
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Christie's Art Auctions , by Poster Bob on Mar 29, 2021 19:38:22 GMT 1, Please post quotes of me looking for and making offers on unsigned tat. Take your time. I've got all day.
You are only 37 though although still more than happy to make a fair offer on anyones worthless unsigned tatt now that owners worldwide are sh!ttin their pants based on his words of wisdom above.
Please post quotes of me looking for and making offers on unsigned tat. Take your time. I've got all day. You are only 37 though although still more than happy to make a fair offer on anyones worthless unsigned tatt now that owners worldwide are sh!ttin their pants based on his words of wisdom above. |
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Georgie Poppit
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February 2021
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Christie's Art Auctions , by Georgie Poppit on Mar 29, 2021 21:10:38 GMT 1, Looks like white rain Nola will beat the previous record
Looks like white rain Nola will beat the previous record
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henryc
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Christie's Art Auctions , by henryc on Mar 29, 2021 21:39:29 GMT 1, I wish I had the financial means to buy some worthless tats 
I wish I had the financial means to buy some worthless tats |
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Christie's Art Auctions , by Sir Ruddington on Mar 29, 2021 21:49:04 GMT 1, My penny's worth of opinion - Banksy fatigue. Especially on the heels of a big Sotheby's auction this Christie's with its 50 lots has buyers thinking "what's the rush, plenty to choose from". Nearly 100 pieces have come up in the last month alone, maybe anybody desperate enough to buy at these prices has been satiated for the time being or isn't willing to pay 30% on hammer when with enough persistence, every image eventually becomes available privately.
It has to level off eventually, maybe we're seeing it here.
My penny's worth of opinion - Banksy fatigue. Especially on the heels of a big Sotheby's auction this Christie's with its 50 lots has buyers thinking "what's the rush, plenty to choose from". Nearly 100 pieces have come up in the last month alone, maybe anybody desperate enough to buy at these prices has been satiated for the time being or isn't willing to pay 30% on hammer when with enough persistence, every image eventually becomes available privately.
It has to level off eventually, maybe we're seeing it here.
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trottey123
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September 2020
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Christie's Art Auctions , by trottey123 on Mar 30, 2021 3:40:38 GMT 1, Christieโs ending today.
Heavy Weaponry canvas is looking like it going cheap.
Christieโs ending today.
Heavy Weaponry canvas is looking like it going cheap.
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