hlarmy
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 3,199
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November 2007
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by hlarmy on Apr 22, 2011 8:14:28 GMT 1, Thanks for the heads up...  With the exception of art and wine, what else is good for flipping .... just out of interest you see  A pancake! ;D
Thanks Ruggs, and where would one buy them and how much dollar would I make for every pancake flipped?
Thanks for the heads up... With the exception of art and wine, what else is good for flipping .... just out of interest you see A pancake! ;D Thanks Ruggs, and where would one buy them and how much dollar would I make for every pancake flipped? |
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Ruggs
Full Member
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January 2008
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by Ruggs on Apr 22, 2011 8:18:39 GMT 1, Thanks Ruggs, and where would one buy them and how much dollar would I make for every pancake flipped?
Sorry hlarmy, couldn't resist. Need cheering up. Still reeling after last nights local derby debacle. So, so embarrassing. Good luck against QPR this weekend chap.
Thanks Ruggs, and where would one buy them and how much dollar would I make for every pancake flipped? Sorry hlarmy, couldn't resist. Need cheering up. Still reeling after last nights local derby debacle. So, so embarrassing. Good luck against QPR this weekend chap. |
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hlarmy
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 3,199
๐๐ป 64
November 2007
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by hlarmy on Apr 22, 2011 8:32:44 GMT 1, It was a shocking result, your boys really let us down.
It was a shocking result, your boys really let us down. |
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by Jeezuz Jones Snr on Apr 22, 2011 9:17:46 GMT 1, Be prepared for a load of English students in the queue now you've let that one out of the bag JJS.......
haha... can they afford it, also the key is not to drink it & cellar it for a few years... My ex's best friend a few yrs back she was a PR for some rich guy, he gave her a $1000 bottle as a gift. She knew nothing about grange/wine, her friend helped her move apartment they both polished it off standing on her balcony gossiping & smoking fags for 30mins  people rent cellar space as a cellar is like the eqivalent to a COA for art, so if its kept proper its worth more.... I never thought i would start aprreciating wine, must be getting old..
Be prepared for a load of English students in the queue now you've let that one out of the bag JJS....... haha... can they afford it, also the key is not to drink it & cellar it for a few years... My ex's best friend a few yrs back she was a PR for some rich guy, he gave her a $1000 bottle as a gift. She knew nothing about grange/wine, her friend helped her move apartment they both polished it off standing on her balcony gossiping & smoking fags for 30mins people rent cellar space as a cellar is like the eqivalent to a COA for art, so if its kept proper its worth more.... I never thought i would start aprreciating wine, must be getting old.. |
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Damien
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 3,324
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July 2008
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by Damien on Apr 22, 2011 10:41:55 GMT 1, they sell this in tesco 235quid a bottle
they sell this in tesco 235quid a bottle
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by howlinhooker on Apr 22, 2011 12:34:37 GMT 1, THEY SELL EVERYTHING IN TESCO !!!!! .......they really are taking over !!!!!!
THEY SELL EVERYTHING IN TESCO !!!!! .......they really are taking over !!!!!!
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by Deleted on Apr 22, 2011 14:40:28 GMT 1, THEY SELL EVERYTHING IN TESCO !!!!! .......they really are taking over !!!!!!
I noticed a Travel money counter, with a women sat behind what looked like bullet proof glass in the corner of Tesco(sadly built over part of Bristol Rovers old ground in Eastville). WTF
THEY SELL EVERYTHING IN TESCO !!!!! .......they really are taking over !!!!!! I noticed a Travel money counter, with a women sat behind what looked like bullet proof glass in the corner of Tesco(sadly built over part of Bristol Rovers old ground in Eastville). WTF |
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pezlow
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 5,388
๐๐ป 254
January 2007
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by pezlow on Apr 22, 2011 20:36:07 GMT 1, Couple of random thoughts - I think it is different selling an original rather than a print. A print is by its nature a multiple and selling a print here and there won't make a difference to the artist. An original is something the artist has poured their work into, flipping that is generally considered less acceptable, although obviously there are example of when it is OK.
Also I think it is wrong to flip a print that isn't even in hand.
Other than that each to their own.
Couple of random thoughts - I think it is different selling an original rather than a print. A print is by its nature a multiple and selling a print here and there won't make a difference to the artist. An original is something the artist has poured their work into, flipping that is generally considered less acceptable, although obviously there are example of when it is OK.
Also I think it is wrong to flip a print that isn't even in hand.
Other than that each to their own.
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ABC
Artist
Junior Member
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August 2006
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by ABC on Apr 23, 2011 8:44:38 GMT 1, quote author=lurkersutd board=ebaychat thread=69467 post=798329 time=1303332171]Its a fact, Banksy wouldn't be where he's at without flipping!
In what way is it a fact? Banksy was well established prior to around 2007 when people jumped on the bandwagon on the print market which is the bottom end in any event.....
POW / Banksy must feel embarrassed about people having a ruck in a queue otherwise the QJG would never have been born. Not all publicity is good?[/quote]
I think it was long before 2007 when then trend began. TOXIC MARY and LOVE RAT hung around POW for a long time, then for some reason in june/july 2006 it went a little nuts. There was a documentary on Banksy and his prices for prints started to climb. TM and LR were on POW for ยฃ75 (If I remember) and selling for ยฃ200ish on the bay, then soon after they released Grannies, that was the first real urgency to buy a BANKSY print. Visualise if you could buy a RC for ยฃ40 now!!
As for the flipper debate, it will always be part of the art market, Masters are traded for millions profit in a matter of years, itโs just BANKSY made it more accessible, plus the fact credit card companies wanted you to max out more than one card. The funny thing is there are still a few that that do not understand the art market and are still buying everything to sell, hence the Micallef's on the bay. If his older prints are not selling why buy a new print to sell on.
I think it would be a lie to say I have not sold stuff on, I have, but I can say that I were collecting long before BANKSY came along, that said it wasnโt so exciting back then.
Why not buy art to keep and appreciate
quote author=lurkersutd board=ebaychat thread=69467 post=798329 time=1303332171] Its a fact, Banksy wouldn't be where he's at without flipping! In what way is it a fact? Banksy was well established prior to around 2007 when people jumped on the bandwagon on the print market which is the bottom end in any event..... POW / Banksy must feel embarrassed about people having a ruck in a queue otherwise the QJG would never have been born. Not all publicity is good?[/quote] I think it was long before 2007 when then trend began. TOXIC MARY and LOVE RAT hung around POW for a long time, then for some reason in june/july 2006 it went a little nuts. There was a documentary on Banksy and his prices for prints started to climb. TM and LR were on POW for ยฃ75 (If I remember) and selling for ยฃ200ish on the bay, then soon after they released Grannies, that was the first real urgency to buy a BANKSY print. Visualise if you could buy a RC for ยฃ40 now!! As for the flipper debate, it will always be part of the art market, Masters are traded for millions profit in a matter of years, itโs just BANKSY made it more accessible, plus the fact credit card companies wanted you to max out more than one card. The funny thing is there are still a few that that do not understand the art market and are still buying everything to sell, hence the Micallef's on the bay. If his older prints are not selling why buy a new print to sell on. I think it would be a lie to say I have not sold stuff on, I have, but I can say that I were collecting long before BANKSY came along, that said it wasnโt so exciting back then. Why not buy art to keep and appreciate |
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by gogolbordello on Apr 23, 2011 15:37:45 GMT 1, Imo..selling becomes flipping when ya get caught out ;D
Until then your just a average joe.
Imo..selling becomes flipping when ya get caught out ;D
Until then your just a average joe.
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by edibleeyeballs on Jul 2, 2015 13:02:21 GMT 1, Hello all!
As a new member of the Urban Art Association, I am quite curious to what other Urban Art Association members define as a "flipper"?
I questioned the respected Gatecrasher member whose definition of "flipper" was beautifully honest and answered my question relatively well. I have copied in Gatecrasher's response below, and I am terribly curious to know what views other Urban Art Association members have on this subject.
Anticipating many great responses to this!
"Flippers are usually considered as buyers who buy purely to re-sell quickly for a profit or to put away in the hope that art work will rise in value and then sell it.
I think most of us have at least some hope that what we buy will increase in value though, so I suppose it's the buying with no intention to frame up that defines the long term flipper. It makes me think of some sales threads on here .. "Absolutely gutted to let one of my favourite pieces go .. bought from new .. been stored in a hermetically sealed container for the last 4 years .. " 
But I've bought and sold prints I thought I would love but didn't so I'm not getting on my soap box to preach.
I remember buying a print (but not which one) on my phone as I was carrying a canoe down the shore to Kielder Water. I think the other 3 people with me realised I was slacking as I mashed the screen trying to get through Paypal " - Gatecrasher
Hello all! As a new member of the Urban Art Association, I am quite curious to what other Urban Art Association members define as a "flipper"? I questioned the respected Gatecrasher member whose definition of "flipper" was beautifully honest and answered my question relatively well. I have copied in Gatecrasher's response below, and I am terribly curious to know what views other Urban Art Association members have on this subject. Anticipating many great responses to this! "Flippers are usually considered as buyers who buy purely to re-sell quickly for a profit or to put away in the hope that art work will rise in value and then sell it.
I think most of us have at least some hope that what we buy will increase in value though, so I suppose it's the buying with no intention to frame up that defines the long term flipper. It makes me think of some sales threads on here .. "Absolutely gutted to let one of my favourite pieces go .. bought from new .. been stored in a hermetically sealed container for the last 4 years .. "
But I've bought and sold prints I thought I would love but didn't so I'm not getting on my soap box to preach.
I remember buying a print (but not which one) on my phone as I was carrying a canoe down the shore to Kielder Water. I think the other 3 people with me realised I was slacking as I mashed the screen trying to get through Paypal " - Gatecrasher |
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BKBOI
Junior Member
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January 2013
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by BKBOI on Jul 2, 2015 14:00:12 GMT 1, Like any asset class, Art attracts people who are either passionate about the art itself or the potential profit to be made from it. I would say that most collectors fall in between the two. Then, there are people like Herb and Dorothy Vogel who fall on one side of the spectrum who are passionate about the art without considering monetary gains and there are flippers who fall on the other side where art is just a way to earn more $$$.
Like any asset class, Art attracts people who are either passionate about the art itself or the potential profit to be made from it. I would say that most collectors fall in between the two. Then, there are people like Herb and Dorothy Vogel who fall on one side of the spectrum who are passionate about the art without considering monetary gains and there are flippers who fall on the other side where art is just a way to earn more $$$.
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tab1
Full Member
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September 2011
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
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January 1970
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by Deleted on Jul 2, 2015 14:41:41 GMT 1, I believe that a flipper is defined as someone who has fewer than 50 posts on the banksy forum who then tries to sell a print within 6 months of purchase. Thereafter as post count increases, the acceptable time to flip decreases
I believe that a flipper is defined as someone who has fewer than 50 posts on the banksy forum who then tries to sell a print within 6 months of purchase. Thereafter as post count increases, the acceptable time to flip decreases
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far-cue
New Member
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September 2013
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by far-cue on Jul 2, 2015 14:44:31 GMT 1, Hello all! As a new member of the Urban Art Association, I am quite curious to what other Urban Art Association members define as a "flipper"? I questioned the respected Gatecrasher member whose definition of "flipper" was beautifully honest and answered my question relatively well. I have copied in Gatecrasher's response below, and I am terribly curious to know what views other Urban Art Association members have on this subject. Anticipating many great responses to this! "Flippers are usually considered as buyers who buy purely to re-sell quickly for a profit or to put away in the hope that art work will rise in value and then sell it.
I think most of us have at least some hope that what we buy will increase in value though, so I suppose it's the buying with no intention to frame up that defines the long term flipper. It makes me think of some sales threads on here .. "Absolutely gutted to let one of my favourite pieces go .. bought from new .. been stored in a hermetically sealed container for the last 4 years .. "
But I've bought and sold prints I thought I would love but didn't so I'm not getting on my soap box to preach.
I remember buying a print (but not which one) on my phone as I was carrying a canoe down the shore to Kielder Water. I think the other 3 people with me realised I was slacking as I mashed the screen trying to get through Paypal " - Gatecrasher Please use the search function on this forum to answer your own query. This debate has been done to death on this forum.
And how do new members learn about the 'scene' if they cannot debate these points
Hello all! As a new member of the Urban Art Association, I am quite curious to what other Urban Art Association members define as a "flipper"? I questioned the respected Gatecrasher member whose definition of "flipper" was beautifully honest and answered my question relatively well. I have copied in Gatecrasher's response below, and I am terribly curious to know what views other Urban Art Association members have on this subject. Anticipating many great responses to this! "Flippers are usually considered as buyers who buy purely to re-sell quickly for a profit or to put away in the hope that art work will rise in value and then sell it.
I think most of us have at least some hope that what we buy will increase in value though, so I suppose it's the buying with no intention to frame up that defines the long term flipper. It makes me think of some sales threads on here .. "Absolutely gutted to let one of my favourite pieces go .. bought from new .. been stored in a hermetically sealed container for the last 4 years .. "
But I've bought and sold prints I thought I would love but didn't so I'm not getting on my soap box to preach.
I remember buying a print (but not which one) on my phone as I was carrying a canoe down the shore to Kielder Water. I think the other 3 people with me realised I was slacking as I mashed the screen trying to get through Paypal " - Gatecrasher Please use the search function on this forum to answer your own query. This debate has been done to death on this forum. I dont think that is a fair response. We discuss many many points but you cant say we've debated that already so move on. Its a different time, different people and peoples thinking evolves. Revisiting old discussions is healthy as not only does it stop the oldies getting stuck in their ways it presents new views from new members coming from a completely different perspective And how do new members learn about the 'scene' if they cannot debate these points |
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WOOF
Junior Member
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March 2014
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by WOOF on Jul 2, 2015 14:46:46 GMT 1,
"Lil Larry & 'nem finna bring a flipper through, we all finna hit."
Lovely.
"Lil Larry & 'nem finna bring a flipper through, we all finna hit." Lovely. |
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by Schrรถdinger's Chat on Jul 2, 2015 14:50:34 GMT 1, 
Flipper is a naughty dolphin scamp from the 80's.
Flipper is a naughty dolphin scamp from the 80's. |
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gatecrasher
New Member
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December 2012
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by gatecrasher on Jul 2, 2015 15:05:17 GMT 1, Lol at "respected member"
I normally post when I'm drunk and wake up thinking I'm a bit of a tool on internet forums.
Lol at "respected member" I normally post when I'm drunk and wake up thinking I'm a bit of a tool on internet forums. |
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.dappy
Full Member
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December 2010
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by .dappy on Jul 2, 2015 15:32:15 GMT 1, I prefer this one ...
I prefer this one ... |
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adewilliams
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,190
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May 2009
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by adewilliams on Jul 2, 2015 15:41:16 GMT 1, 
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tab1
Full Member
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September 2011
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by tab1 on Jul 2, 2015 17:48:09 GMT 1, Or this
www.investopedia.com/terms/f/flipper.asp
Term From financial markets translates easily to art markets
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sparky999
New Member
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October 2013
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by sparky999 on Jul 2, 2015 17:54:42 GMT 1, It comes down to intent at time of purchase as far as I'm concerned
It comes down to intent at time of purchase as far as I'm concerned
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by Yeah Yeah Yeah Round2 on Jul 2, 2015 18:27:48 GMT 1, I bought one for my friend but they don't want it! (Recent Futura)
(Unless it's family and they say it's pure shite!!!!! Trust me been there bought the tshirt lol)
Flippers don't bother me - bought the Futura VNA for double the price but by the time I add air fares, hotel, shopping, booze, food etc. That was the best FXxking deal of the century. So I'm cool with Flippers
I bought one for my friend but they don't want it! (Recent Futura)
(Unless it's family and they say it's pure shite!!!!! Trust me been there bought the tshirt lol)
Flippers don't bother me - bought the Futura VNA for double the price but by the time I add air fares, hotel, shopping, booze, food etc. That was the best FXxking deal of the century. So I'm cool with Flippers
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dotdot
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 3,658
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December 2006
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by dotdot on Jul 2, 2015 19:10:04 GMT 1, flippers have their place (somewhere over that rainbow) ...generally they have no idea of the life of a work or it's value perhaps longer term it's a short term flip for them... they make something rather than a fart-zed.
I remember buying a colour trolley from one.... for ยฃ1500...
flippers have their place (somewhere over that rainbow) ...generally they have no idea of the life of a work or it's value perhaps longer term it's a short term flip for them... they make something rather than a fart-zed.
I remember buying a colour trolley from one.... for ยฃ1500...
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by edibleeyeballs on Jul 2, 2015 19:36:32 GMT 1, Brilliant so very insightful and intriguing responses so far. I also love the dolphin pictures, they're a fantastic laugh! To such a passionate art enthusiast such as myself this seems a very interesting topic, however many times it may have been discussed.
I did notice one response aimed at me, I would like to point out that the prints I am selling have been displayed but they are no longer in use as I have recently purchased one of my 'wish list' prints. Therefore I am selling them on, at cost, to anyone who will put them to good use. I would also like to question desmond on how is one supposed to reach 50 posts with negativity as you have displayed?
I am also interested in what members think of gallery's releasing a piece of work, waiting until it's sold out and then putting it up for sale for triple the price?
Is this side of "flipping" acceptable due to the fact that they own a retail space/ website? Or are they exempt from this term as they are the business's that make the art available to the art enthusiast. I personally believe, from what I have read here, that it's similar to the old story of the man who stole a loaf of bread to feed his starving family. I am aware of the fact that art is rather different to this but I question you to what makes it acceptable? If you are working with Picassos and Warhols as much as some are purchased out of love for the art itself, most is brought to for the owner to increase the value of said work.
As I have mentioned before this subject absolutely fascinates me as there seem to be so many mixed opinions about said subject.
Brilliant so very insightful and intriguing responses so far. I also love the dolphin pictures, they're a fantastic laugh! To such a passionate art enthusiast such as myself this seems a very interesting topic, however many times it may have been discussed.
I did notice one response aimed at me, I would like to point out that the prints I am selling have been displayed but they are no longer in use as I have recently purchased one of my 'wish list' prints. Therefore I am selling them on, at cost, to anyone who will put them to good use. I would also like to question desmond on how is one supposed to reach 50 posts with negativity as you have displayed?
I am also interested in what members think of gallery's releasing a piece of work, waiting until it's sold out and then putting it up for sale for triple the price?
Is this side of "flipping" acceptable due to the fact that they own a retail space/ website? Or are they exempt from this term as they are the business's that make the art available to the art enthusiast. I personally believe, from what I have read here, that it's similar to the old story of the man who stole a loaf of bread to feed his starving family. I am aware of the fact that art is rather different to this but I question you to what makes it acceptable? If you are working with Picassos and Warhols as much as some are purchased out of love for the art itself, most is brought to for the owner to increase the value of said work.
As I have mentioned before this subject absolutely fascinates me as there seem to be so many mixed opinions about said subject.
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tab1
Full Member
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September 2011
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by tab1 on Jul 2, 2015 20:39:43 GMT 1, It really doesn't matter it's just a term "flipper" it will continue and there's no control over it .
As pointed out galleries , print houses do it , yet in some ways more devious circumstances.
Too much angst over prints that in most cases aren't even printed by the artist and most of these artists will be unknown in the future .
Save the anger for something worth while ?
Banksy prints are increasing every 6 months ?! Flipping ?
Wait until kunstrassen produces a print release ;-)
Following the recent threads on here by some of people opposed to flipping?
It really doesn't matter it's just a term "flipper" it will continue and there's no control over it .
As pointed out galleries , print houses do it , yet in some ways more devious circumstances.
Too much angst over prints that in most cases aren't even printed by the artist and most of these artists will be unknown in the future .
Save the anger for something worth while ?
Banksy prints are increasing every 6 months ?! Flipping ?
Wait until kunstrassen produces a print release ;-)
Following the recent threads on here by some of people opposed to flipping?
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
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January 1970
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by Deleted on Jul 2, 2015 21:01:31 GMT 1, Fuck to what everyone else thinks defines a flipflop, it's your opinion that matters to you so form one.
Flippers / profiteers are here to stay and thats that, they are a part of the economy.
Fuck to what everyone else thinks defines a flipflop, it's your opinion that matters to you so form one.
Flippers / profiteers are here to stay and thats that, they are a part of the economy.
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Rsyok
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 3,375
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January 2008
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by Rsyok on Jul 2, 2015 21:04:07 GMT 1, f**k to what everyone else thinks defines a flipflop, it's your opinion that matters to you so form one. Flippers / profiteers are here to stay and thats that, they are a part of the economy.
Somebody was wearing flip flops today in work but they sounded more like a flip flip? Maybe the flop was broken.
f**k to what everyone else thinks defines a flipflop, it's your opinion that matters to you so form one. Flippers / profiteers are here to stay and thats that, they are a part of the economy. Somebody was wearing flip flops today in work but they sounded more like a flip flip? Maybe the flop was broken. |
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by Coach on Jul 2, 2015 21:11:31 GMT 1, If a gallery is going to hold back prints to sell at a higher price, I would rather that they were transparent and said so.
Many contemporary prints are sold such that the price increases as the edition sells out. It's obviously a ploy to stop people dithering over a purchase and feel good about themselves if they bought at a much lower price than others did. Not that pleasant, but at least it's transparent.
As for flipping, it's parasitical but has been part of the art scene for a long time and will no doubt continue to be. I agree with some comments from previous posters. It's all about one's intent when buying. Bought to sell to make a quick profit, or bought for love. If the later, it's not a flip if it's subsequently sold on due to a change in taste or circumstances. Whilst I don't like flipping I also agree with the comment that there's no point getting too upset about it as there's nothing to be done (except, perhaps, not condoning it here - it was certainly less acceptable when I first joined this forum, and I have no idea why it is less frowned upon now).
If a gallery is going to hold back prints to sell at a higher price, I would rather that they were transparent and said so.
Many contemporary prints are sold such that the price increases as the edition sells out. It's obviously a ploy to stop people dithering over a purchase and feel good about themselves if they bought at a much lower price than others did. Not that pleasant, but at least it's transparent.
As for flipping, it's parasitical but has been part of the art scene for a long time and will no doubt continue to be. I agree with some comments from previous posters. It's all about one's intent when buying. Bought to sell to make a quick profit, or bought for love. If the later, it's not a flip if it's subsequently sold on due to a change in taste or circumstances. Whilst I don't like flipping I also agree with the comment that there's no point getting too upset about it as there's nothing to be done (except, perhaps, not condoning it here - it was certainly less acceptable when I first joined this forum, and I have no idea why it is less frowned upon now).
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people rent cellar space as a cellar is like the eqivalent to a COA for art, so if its kept proper its worth more.... I never thought i would start aprreciating wine, must be getting old.. 
