|
|
Flipping Art โข The Debate, by Daniel Silk on May 6, 2016 19:29:55 GMT 1, The only people who really have the right to stop people buying to resell their Art is the Gallery or the actual Artist. Of course I understand many are upset by people "flipping" or just reselling art at a profit, but it's their money, and their choice at the end of the day, and certainly this site is not here to judge or police those types of things.
The only people who really have the right to stop people buying to resell their Art is the Gallery or the actual Artist. Of course I understand many are upset by people "flipping" or just reselling art at a profit, but it's their money, and their choice at the end of the day, and certainly this site is not here to judge or police those types of things.
|
|
|
|
Flipping Art โข The Debate, by Coach on May 6, 2016 19:35:52 GMT 1, The only people who really have the right to stop people buying to resell their Art is the Gallery or the actual Artist. Of course I understand many are upset by people "flipping" or just reselling art at a profit, but it's their money, and their choice at the end of the day, and certainly this site is not here to judge or police those types of things.
But surely individual members can express an opinion about such activity? Disapproval for example?
I wasn't suggesting any rule or forum wide ideology.
Also we know that artists and galleries tend to disapprove. They cancel orders, impose a one per person rule etc.
The only people who really have the right to stop people buying to resell their Art is the Gallery or the actual Artist. Of course I understand many are upset by people "flipping" or just reselling art at a profit, but it's their money, and their choice at the end of the day, and certainly this site is not here to judge or police those types of things. But surely individual members can express an opinion about such activity? Disapproval for example? I wasn't suggesting any rule or forum wide ideology. Also we know that artists and galleries tend to disapprove. They cancel orders, impose a one per person rule etc. |
|
|
|
Flipping Art โข The Debate, by Daniel Silk on May 6, 2016 20:29:03 GMT 1, The only people who really have the right to stop people buying to resell their Art is the Gallery or the actual Artist. Of course I understand many are upset by people "flipping" or just reselling art at a profit, but it's their money, and their choice at the end of the day, and certainly this site is not here to judge or police those types of things. But surely individual members can express an opinion about such activity? Disapproval for example? I wasn't suggesting any rule or forum wide ideology. Also we know that artists and galleries tend to disapprove. They cancel orders, impose a one per person rule etc.  Expressing their opinion on that type of thing is fine. I think some people would like some kind of rules on what and who are allowed to sell on this site, but it's not something I support.
Yeah, Galleries or Artists are totally free to cancel orders of buyers if they feel it's the right thing to do for them.
The only people who really have the right to stop people buying to resell their Art is the Gallery or the actual Artist. Of course I understand many are upset by people "flipping" or just reselling art at a profit, but it's their money, and their choice at the end of the day, and certainly this site is not here to judge or police those types of things. But surely individual members can express an opinion about such activity? Disapproval for example? I wasn't suggesting any rule or forum wide ideology. Also we know that artists and galleries tend to disapprove. They cancel orders, impose a one per person rule etc. Of course Expressing their opinion on that type of thing is fine. I think some people would like some kind of rules on what and who are allowed to sell on this site, but it's not something I support. Yeah, Galleries or Artists are totally free to cancel orders of buyers if they feel it's the right thing to do for them. |
|
wave
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,046
๐๐ป 179
March 2007
|
Flipping Art โข The Debate, by wave on May 6, 2016 20:31:37 GMT 1, Not that i agree with flipping personally having had to pay a small fortune many a time after missing out on releases. But it does indirectly benefit the artist by helping to create a demand for their work. Only a few years ago you could easily pick up Dolk, Eelus at cost until the hype-sters decided for example a lenticular was worth more than It actually is.
It does however more often than not come crashing down.
Not that i agree with flipping personally having had to pay a small fortune many a time after missing out on releases. But it does indirectly benefit the artist by helping to create a demand for their work. Only a few years ago you could easily pick up Dolk, Eelus at cost until the hype-sters decided for example a lenticular was worth more than It actually is.
It does however more often than not come crashing down.
|
|
|
|
Flipping Art โข The Debate, by Coach on May 6, 2016 20:55:20 GMT 1, But surely individual members can express an opinion about such activity? Disapproval for example? I wasn't suggesting any rule or forum wide ideology. Also we know that artists and galleries tend to disapprove. They cancel orders, impose a one per person rule etc. Of course Expressing their opinion on that type of thing is fine. I think some people would like some kind of rules on what and who are allowed to sell on this site, but it's not something I support. Yeah, Galleries or Artists are totally free to cancel orders of buyers if they feel it's the right thing to do for them.
I agree that such a rule is a bad idea.
Self police.
But surely individual members can express an opinion about such activity? Disapproval for example? I wasn't suggesting any rule or forum wide ideology. Also we know that artists and galleries tend to disapprove. They cancel orders, impose a one per person rule etc. Of course Expressing their opinion on that type of thing is fine. I think some people would like some kind of rules on what and who are allowed to sell on this site, but it's not something I support. Yeah, Galleries or Artists are totally free to cancel orders of buyers if they feel it's the right thing to do for them. I agree that such a rule is a bad idea. Self police. |
|
|
|
Flipping Art โข The Debate, by Coach on May 6, 2016 20:56:35 GMT 1, Not that i agree with flipping personally having had to pay a small fortune many a time after missing out on releases. But it does indirectly benefit the artist by helping to create a demand for their work. Only a few years ago you could easily pick up Dolk, Eelus at cost until the hype-sters decided for example a lenticular was worth more than It actually is. It does however more often than not come crashing down.
I'm not sure that hype induced boom and crash helps an artist long term.
Not that i agree with flipping personally having had to pay a small fortune many a time after missing out on releases. But it does indirectly benefit the artist by helping to create a demand for their work. Only a few years ago you could easily pick up Dolk, Eelus at cost until the hype-sters decided for example a lenticular was worth more than It actually is. It does however more often than not come crashing down. I'm not sure that hype induced boom and crash helps an artist long term. |
|
|
|
NYart
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,221
๐๐ป 844
January 2016
|
Flipping Art โข The Debate, by NYart on May 6, 2016 21:28:52 GMT 1, If the hope that the value of a piece would increase is not a factor to you why would you collect limited edition collectible artwork? Go print off a copy of your favorite art for your walls if the value is of no importance to you. Sure you may not care if it doesn't appreciate in value if you truly enjoy it, but I don't believe anyone who says they wouldn't like their art gaining value.
All the art on my walls I really like. But at a point if they become worth more than I personally value them, I'd sell them. Which may not be as annoying to others as flipping prints before the inks dry but it the mindset is no different. They buy an inexpensive new release and others value it more than it was released for, they don't. Either blame the artist for not selling their art for the market price (ensuring it ends up in the hands of true collectors) or pay whoever was lucky enough to land the print and enjoy your art.
If everyone here who says flipping is such a terrible thing truly believed it we'd be seeing many more pieces going for cost.
If the hope that the value of a piece would increase is not a factor to you why would you collect limited edition collectible artwork? Go print off a copy of your favorite art for your walls if the value is of no importance to you. Sure you may not care if it doesn't appreciate in value if you truly enjoy it, but I don't believe anyone who says they wouldn't like their art gaining value.
All the art on my walls I really like. But at a point if they become worth more than I personally value them, I'd sell them. Which may not be as annoying to others as flipping prints before the inks dry but it the mindset is no different. They buy an inexpensive new release and others value it more than it was released for, they don't. Either blame the artist for not selling their art for the market price (ensuring it ends up in the hands of true collectors) or pay whoever was lucky enough to land the print and enjoy your art.
If everyone here who says flipping is such a terrible thing truly believed it we'd be seeing many more pieces going for cost.
|
|
|
|
Flipping Art โข The Debate, by Coach on May 6, 2016 21:38:27 GMT 1, If the hope that the value of a piece would increase is not a factor to you why would you collect limited edition collectible artwork? Go print off a copy of your favorite art for your walls if the value is of no importance to you. Sure you may not care if it doesn't appreciate in value if you truly enjoy it, but I don't believe anyone who says they wouldn't like their art gaining value. All the art on my walls I really like. But at a point if they become worth more than I personally value them, I'd sell them. Which may not be as annoying to others as flipping prints before the inks dry but it the mindset is no different. They buy an inexpensive new release and others value it more than it was released for, they don't. Either blame the artist for not selling their art for the market price (ensuring it ends up in the hands of true collectors) or pay whoever was lucky enough to land the print and enjoy your art. If everyone here who says flipping is such a terrible thing truly believed it we'd be seeing many more pieces going for cost.
I don't tend to buy prints. I buy originals, according to how much I can afford. if I need to sell, I very often don't get back what I paid. I don't care. I've enjoyed the work on my wall in the meantime.
I disagree that the mindset of flipping is the same as the scenario you describe. In your scenario you have been persuaded to sell, due to an increase in value. A flipper bought the piece, not yo enjoy, but purely to sell on at a profit, to the detriment of other collectors trying to buy the same piece to enjoy.
If the hope that the value of a piece would increase is not a factor to you why would you collect limited edition collectible artwork? Go print off a copy of your favorite art for your walls if the value is of no importance to you. Sure you may not care if it doesn't appreciate in value if you truly enjoy it, but I don't believe anyone who says they wouldn't like their art gaining value. All the art on my walls I really like. But at a point if they become worth more than I personally value them, I'd sell them. Which may not be as annoying to others as flipping prints before the inks dry but it the mindset is no different. They buy an inexpensive new release and others value it more than it was released for, they don't. Either blame the artist for not selling their art for the market price (ensuring it ends up in the hands of true collectors) or pay whoever was lucky enough to land the print and enjoy your art. If everyone here who says flipping is such a terrible thing truly believed it we'd be seeing many more pieces going for cost. I don't tend to buy prints. I buy originals, according to how much I can afford. if I need to sell, I very often don't get back what I paid. I don't care. I've enjoyed the work on my wall in the meantime. I disagree that the mindset of flipping is the same as the scenario you describe. In your scenario you have been persuaded to sell, due to an increase in value. A flipper bought the piece, not yo enjoy, but purely to sell on at a profit, to the detriment of other collectors trying to buy the same piece to enjoy. |
|
Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
|
Flipping Art โข The Debate, by Deleted on May 6, 2016 21:56:31 GMT 1, I don't know when the point will come for me to sell arty stuff. Even when i am skint i dont really think about selling my art, it doesn't seem right, unless of course I don't like what i have, then i generally find no one else likes it either, so i cant get rid of it.
I think thats what makes a collector, the keeping part
did i digress from the point ?
I don't know when the point will come for me to sell arty stuff. Even when i am skint i dont really think about selling my art, it doesn't seem right, unless of course I don't like what i have, then i generally find no one else likes it either, so i cant get rid of it.
I think thats what makes a collector, the keeping part
did i digress from the point ?
|
|
Dibbs 45
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 3,913
๐๐ป 4,881
October 2012
|
Flipping Art โข The Debate, by Dibbs 45 on May 6, 2016 22:01:32 GMT 1, I'm not having ago at the OP and I think discussions are great for the forum, but a discussion on this topic has been done so many times before. I was going to write what I thought but then then stopped as I have written the same thing a number of times over the last few years. However its good for the purpose of new members who have not been part of this discussion before and hopefully someone can lend a new perspective of the subject, which would be nice.
Collecting art is like any other male anorak obsession. There are collectors and there are people that will exploit the collectors for profit. Just as there are artists that will exploit the supply and demand nature of there work and flippers helping to generate demand and sometimes killing the artists reputation in the process. Artists have not always got the pure integrity that would compromise their ability to make a living. Art is an unregulated commodity that can act as a savings plan for people also. Cost or profit? No loss of money generally unless you buy something complete gash.
Flippers don't appreciate the art but appreciate its potential value, which gets my goat. Art is about process, technique, medium meaning and other elements, not about Queue, flip, profit. However I have sold things for profit to help buy something I love and I have sold for cost as well. I think we have to consider as well peoples financial situation. What if someone desperately needed money to pay a bill and they knew a release was the next day that would earn them the money to pay the bill. They take the gamble.
Oh well perhaps I did write something.
I'm not having ago at the OP and I think discussions are great for the forum, but a discussion on this topic has been done so many times before. I was going to write what I thought but then then stopped as I have written the same thing a number of times over the last few years. However its good for the purpose of new members who have not been part of this discussion before and hopefully someone can lend a new perspective of the subject, which would be nice.
Collecting art is like any other male anorak obsession. There are collectors and there are people that will exploit the collectors for profit. Just as there are artists that will exploit the supply and demand nature of there work and flippers helping to generate demand and sometimes killing the artists reputation in the process. Artists have not always got the pure integrity that would compromise their ability to make a living. Art is an unregulated commodity that can act as a savings plan for people also. Cost or profit? No loss of money generally unless you buy something complete gash.
Flippers don't appreciate the art but appreciate its potential value, which gets my goat. Art is about process, technique, medium meaning and other elements, not about Queue, flip, profit. However I have sold things for profit to help buy something I love and I have sold for cost as well. I think we have to consider as well peoples financial situation. What if someone desperately needed money to pay a bill and they knew a release was the next day that would earn them the money to pay the bill. They take the gamble.
Oh well perhaps I did write something.
|
|
BKBOI
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,882
๐๐ป 1,694
January 2013
|
Flipping Art โข The Debate, by BKBOI on May 6, 2016 22:05:17 GMT 1, lots of Banksy prints popping out here which have been sitting in flat files and never seen light of day being sold for current market prices. Is that any better than someone who sold it for profit the day the print sells out?
so many morality issues in this pokemon cards for grown ups.
lots of Banksy prints popping out here which have been sitting in flat files and never seen light of day being sold for current market prices. Is that any better than someone who sold it for profit the day the print sells out?
so many morality issues in this pokemon cards for grown ups.
|
|
iamzero
Full Member
๐จ๏ธ 9,190
๐๐ป 8,545
May 2011
|
Flipping Art โข The Debate, by iamzero on May 6, 2016 22:14:51 GMT 1, Never bought anything I didn't like just for the monetary gain... Kicked myself a few times for not doing it too. I've been collecting for a good few years now and am only making my first sales now due to big changes in my world. Pains me to do it too. I'm a collector of stuff...simple as that. I'd buy a Banksy print even if I didn't like it, but purely just to trade it against another Banksy I did like if possible. Not lucky enough to own one yet. I tried to do this with the Stik Baby print, bought two with the sole intention to swap one for a Stik Walk but no one wants to help with that realisation of that so sadly it'll be probably up for sale to pay some more pressing things shortly. Sad but a fact of life.
Never bought anything I didn't like just for the monetary gain... Kicked myself a few times for not doing it too. I've been collecting for a good few years now and am only making my first sales now due to big changes in my world. Pains me to do it too. I'm a collector of stuff...simple as that. I'd buy a Banksy print even if I didn't like it, but purely just to trade it against another Banksy I did like if possible. Not lucky enough to own one yet. I tried to do this with the Stik Baby print, bought two with the sole intention to swap one for a Stik Walk but no one wants to help with that realisation of that so sadly it'll be probably up for sale to pay some more pressing things shortly. Sad but a fact of life.
|
|
Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
|
Flipping Art โข The Debate, by Deleted on May 7, 2016 8:15:26 GMT 1, Sorry Dibbs I wasn't aware a poll had been done before and tbh I usually come on here and automatically click on the active threads link. I can't say I go looking for old threads. Once they disappear off the first few pages I don't see them. I've locked the poll but it says not visible until voted on.
Sorry Dibbs I wasn't aware a poll had been done before and tbh I usually come on here and automatically click on the active threads link. I can't say I go looking for old threads. Once they disappear off the first few pages I don't see them. I've locked the poll but it says not visible until voted on.
|
|
Dibbs 45
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 3,913
๐๐ป 4,881
October 2012
|
Flipping Art โข The Debate, by Dibbs 45 on May 7, 2016 8:56:53 GMT 1, Sorry Dibbs I wasn't aware a poll had been done before and tbh I usually come on here and automatically click on the active threads link. I can't say I go looking for old threads. Once they disappear off the first few pages I don't see them. I've locked the poll but it says not visible until voted on.
stender My mistake as I should have said. Not the poll but the debate itself has been done before. However as the forum gets new members it's always interesting to hear other people's views from new collectors.
Sorry Dibbs I wasn't aware a poll had been done before and tbh I usually come on here and automatically click on the active threads link. I can't say I go looking for old threads. Once they disappear off the first few pages I don't see them. I've locked the poll but it says not visible until voted on. My mistake as I should have said. Not the poll but the debate itself has been done before. However as the forum gets new members it's always interesting to hear other people's views from new collectors. |
|
|
|
Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
|
Flipping Art โข The Debate, by Deleted on May 7, 2016 13:13:58 GMT 1, I have no problem with flippers. It is just business after all the same way as old men flip coffee or commodities etc by creating supply and demand.
If flippers are open it's fine but generally flipping comes with a lot of cheese and hype and is done by people working together.
Banksy sells to VIP's direct now or so the story goes and doesn't like flippers or poor people? Cos celebrities have more money and celebrities are special people. Even so thats B's choice and if these celebrity prints were being produced and sold direct to celebrities, then even tho they are not available to the poor. There would at least be images of these new for celebrity prints appearing online.
It could be that celebrities are paying tens of thousands for any new B prints or it could be that they don't exist?
It could be that these new prints are being sold direct to hedge funds via some sort of deal or it could be that they are not.
I have no problem with flippers. It is just business after all the same way as old men flip coffee or commodities etc by creating supply and demand.
If flippers are open it's fine but generally flipping comes with a lot of cheese and hype and is done by people working together.
Banksy sells to VIP's direct now or so the story goes and doesn't like flippers or poor people? Cos celebrities have more money and celebrities are special people. Even so thats B's choice and if these celebrity prints were being produced and sold direct to celebrities, then even tho they are not available to the poor. There would at least be images of these new for celebrity prints appearing online.
It could be that celebrities are paying tens of thousands for any new B prints or it could be that they don't exist?
It could be that these new prints are being sold direct to hedge funds via some sort of deal or it could be that they are not.
|
|
|
|
Flipping Art โข The Debate, by Daniel Silk on May 7, 2016 13:17:27 GMT 1, I think much of what people call "Flipping" is fueled by people desire to have the latest thing!
You can find great Art by maybe the same Artists for sale all over the internet and around galleries, yet people still fight to get the very latest print release.
I think much of what people call "Flipping" is fueled by people desire to have the latest thing!
You can find great Art by maybe the same Artists for sale all over the internet and around galleries, yet people still fight to get the very latest print release.
|
|
chrisell66
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 117
๐๐ป 80
February 2012
|
Flipping Art โข The Debate, by chrisell66 on May 7, 2016 14:27:42 GMT 1, It comes down to the fundamentals of supply and demand really.
So long as people are prepared to "pay" inflated prices people will flip art - trainers - obscure records.
I think its partly a boy thing - obsessive collecting - from Football stickers in our childhoods to art today.
I understand why people flip more than I understand people having flat files under their bed - not a criticism just a comment. I get having more art than walls - but I don't quite understand buying new art that will never see the light of day.
Unless artists sell at top price - and struggle to sell out a release quickly - someone will always flip. If the Eeelus Lenticular had been released at flipper prices it would have sold slowly no one would have flipped as there's be no profit or demand - but then he'd have been slaughtered for his pricing.
If someone will pay four figures for an Eelus print - then they fuel the fire. I like the rainbow images and never got one at source - but wouldn't even dream of paying secondary market prices - they're cute but not that cute.
I've stepped away from the secondary market in the last year - still bought pieces here from members but not been on E bay for ages - and the ones I have bought were at "fair" prices.
We all pay what we think something is worth - the "market" helps us decide if its fair. Are Banksy's worth the money - to me no but they obviously are to a lot of people. The galleries and art world have "accepted" Banksy so his values will continue to rise - I personally suspect if you buy an Eelus at secondary rates as an investment you'll be disappointed in 10 years when no ones remembers him (I have rare 12" records that were must haves 30 years ago - now they have little value - who the f*** are they is more likely than I must own that weird coloured extended mix 12".
I'm not having a pop at Eelus - he prices fair I like his work - I just don't think he'll be remembered - I could have named 10 other artists as easily. We set the prices - don't play the game and the prices will stay static.
It comes down to the fundamentals of supply and demand really.
So long as people are prepared to "pay" inflated prices people will flip art - trainers - obscure records.
I think its partly a boy thing - obsessive collecting - from Football stickers in our childhoods to art today.
I understand why people flip more than I understand people having flat files under their bed - not a criticism just a comment. I get having more art than walls - but I don't quite understand buying new art that will never see the light of day.
Unless artists sell at top price - and struggle to sell out a release quickly - someone will always flip. If the Eeelus Lenticular had been released at flipper prices it would have sold slowly no one would have flipped as there's be no profit or demand - but then he'd have been slaughtered for his pricing.
If someone will pay four figures for an Eelus print - then they fuel the fire. I like the rainbow images and never got one at source - but wouldn't even dream of paying secondary market prices - they're cute but not that cute.
I've stepped away from the secondary market in the last year - still bought pieces here from members but not been on E bay for ages - and the ones I have bought were at "fair" prices.
We all pay what we think something is worth - the "market" helps us decide if its fair. Are Banksy's worth the money - to me no but they obviously are to a lot of people. The galleries and art world have "accepted" Banksy so his values will continue to rise - I personally suspect if you buy an Eelus at secondary rates as an investment you'll be disappointed in 10 years when no ones remembers him (I have rare 12" records that were must haves 30 years ago - now they have little value - who the f*** are they is more likely than I must own that weird coloured extended mix 12".
I'm not having a pop at Eelus - he prices fair I like his work - I just don't think he'll be remembered - I could have named 10 other artists as easily. We set the prices - don't play the game and the prices will stay static.
|
|
temple
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 56
๐๐ป 8
November 2010
|
Flipping Art โข The Debate, by temple on May 7, 2016 19:25:44 GMT 1, I buy and sell, I buy off ebay, direct, off members here and other forums, I buy to sell sometimes and with that profit I'll work my way to owning the pieces I can't justify spending rent money on. Because this is the Internet and everyone is still sooooo MSN chatroom dramatic labels like "flippers are parasitical" are cleary over the top, people flipping are just making a buck or more likely just addicted to the chase and opening a tube, Nobody gets worse off, nobody gets hungry and I'm sure very few people die from it. Occasionally I get emails saying 'im a fan of the work but can't afford it' and I generally let it go at what I paid.
What I'm trying to say is, flippers can be a victim of over excited circumstance and if us, them, we don't love art for this, then the person upset doesn't love the art either as he would be happy with a photocopy not the resale value, that my opinion.
I buy and sell, I buy off ebay, direct, off members here and other forums, I buy to sell sometimes and with that profit I'll work my way to owning the pieces I can't justify spending rent money on. Because this is the Internet and everyone is still sooooo MSN chatroom dramatic labels like "flippers are parasitical" are cleary over the top, people flipping are just making a buck or more likely just addicted to the chase and opening a tube, Nobody gets worse off, nobody gets hungry and I'm sure very few people die from it. Occasionally I get emails saying 'im a fan of the work but can't afford it' and I generally let it go at what I paid.
What I'm trying to say is, flippers can be a victim of over excited circumstance and if us, them, we don't love art for this, then the person upset doesn't love the art either as he would be happy with a photocopy not the resale value, that my opinion.
|
|
case
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 416
๐๐ป 494
September 2015
|
Flipping Art โข The Debate, by case on May 8, 2016 8:10:01 GMT 1, What I'm trying to say is, flippers can be a victim of over excited circumstance and if us, them, we don't love art for this, then the person upset doesn't love the art either as he would be happy with a photocopy not the resale value, that my opinion.
Well, as some might know I`m only looking for a Pejac Meadow. Unfortunately after collecting funds for some months now that I have a buget that would have been enough for the last prices achieved but thanks to price manipulation prices seem to have doubled as it gets flipped and reflipped and rereflipped. So I`m not really happy about flipping, especially as there are so many "mint, never framed" ones out there that should be shown on walls.
I don`t care about the value of this print (about the sales price of course), I just love the artwork and idea. If I manage to get one the price will be dead money as this print would never leave my house. I`d even buy it if it was an IKEA image. So if I get you right I should be satifsfied with a copy. I would be (if it was a good one) but I know the artist wouldn`t be happy about it so I couldn`t enjoy it - even knowing that he`d never know and this wouldn`t really harm the artist as this print edition is sold out and only flippers are profiting from the sales now. It just would be different. This may be stupid but that`s the way I feel.
What I'm trying to say is, flippers can be a victim of over excited circumstance and if us, them, we don't love art for this, then the person upset doesn't love the art either as he would be happy with a photocopy not the resale value, that my opinion. Well, as some might know I`m only looking for a Pejac Meadow. Unfortunately after collecting funds for some months now that I have a buget that would have been enough for the last prices achieved but thanks to price manipulation prices seem to have doubled as it gets flipped and reflipped and rereflipped. So I`m not really happy about flipping, especially as there are so many "mint, never framed" ones out there that should be shown on walls. I don`t care about the value of this print (about the sales price of course), I just love the artwork and idea. If I manage to get one the price will be dead money as this print would never leave my house. I`d even buy it if it was an IKEA image. So if I get you right I should be satifsfied with a copy. I would be (if it was a good one) but I know the artist wouldn`t be happy about it so I couldn`t enjoy it - even knowing that he`d never know and this wouldn`t really harm the artist as this print edition is sold out and only flippers are profiting from the sales now. It just would be different. This may be stupid but that`s the way I feel. |
|
Whitefish
Artist
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,251
๐๐ป 2,455
February 2015
|
Flipping Art โข The Debate, by Whitefish on May 8, 2016 9:35:13 GMT 1, I think much of what people call "Flipping" is fueled by people desire to have the latest thing! You can find great Art by maybe the same Artists for sale all over the internet and around galleries, yet people still fight to get the very latest print release.
I think much of what people call "Flipping" is fueled by people desire to have the latest thing! You can find great Art by maybe the same Artists for sale all over the internet and around galleries, yet people still fight to get the very latest print release. "willing to pay" with a side of weak sauce |
|
T-Bro
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,522
๐๐ป 1,422
April 2006
|
Flipping Art โข The Debate, by T-Bro on May 8, 2016 9:39:42 GMT 1, What I'm trying to say is, flippers can be a victim of over excited circumstance and if us, them, we don't love art for this, then the person upset doesn't love the art either as he would be happy with a photocopy not the resale value, that my opinion. Well, as some might know I`m only looking for a Pejac Meadow. Unfortunately after collecting funds for some months now that I have a buget that would have been enough for the last prices achieved but thanks to price manipulation prices seem to have doubled as it gets flipped and reflipped and rereflipped. So I`m not really happy about flipping, especially as there are so many "mint, never framed" ones out there that should be shown on walls. I don`t care about the value of this print (about the sales price of course), I just love the artwork and idea. If I manage to get one the price will be dead money as this print would never leave my house. I`d even buy it if it was an IKEA image. So if I get you right I should be satifsfied with a copy. I would be (if it was a good one) but I know the artist wouldn`t be happy about it so I couldn`t enjoy it - even knowing that he`d never know and this wouldn`t really harm the artist as this print edition is sold out and only flippers are profiting from the sales now. It just would be different. This may be stupid but that`s the way I feel.
At the end of the day is a piece of paper with a stag in it with some arrows in a field.
The lesson is to buy from source and not the secondary market.
What I'm trying to say is, flippers can be a victim of over excited circumstance and if us, them, we don't love art for this, then the person upset doesn't love the art either as he would be happy with a photocopy not the resale value, that my opinion. Well, as some might know I`m only looking for a Pejac Meadow. Unfortunately after collecting funds for some months now that I have a buget that would have been enough for the last prices achieved but thanks to price manipulation prices seem to have doubled as it gets flipped and reflipped and rereflipped. So I`m not really happy about flipping, especially as there are so many "mint, never framed" ones out there that should be shown on walls. I don`t care about the value of this print (about the sales price of course), I just love the artwork and idea. If I manage to get one the price will be dead money as this print would never leave my house. I`d even buy it if it was an IKEA image. So if I get you right I should be satifsfied with a copy. I would be (if it was a good one) but I know the artist wouldn`t be happy about it so I couldn`t enjoy it - even knowing that he`d never know and this wouldn`t really harm the artist as this print edition is sold out and only flippers are profiting from the sales now. It just would be different. This may be stupid but that`s the way I feel. I cant believe people still talk about flipping prints - if you are concerned about this buy from source. if you miss out hard luck and onto the next one. At the end of the day is a piece of paper with a stag in it with some arrows in a field. The lesson is to buy from source and not the secondary market. |
|
case
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 416
๐๐ป 494
September 2015
|
Flipping Art โข The Debate, by case on May 8, 2016 11:27:56 GMT 1, Well, as some might know I`m only looking for a Pejac Meadow. Unfortunately after collecting funds for some months now that I have a buget that would have been enough for the last prices achieved but thanks to price manipulation prices seem to have doubled as it gets flipped and reflipped and rereflipped. So I`m not really happy about flipping, especially as there are so many "mint, never framed" ones out there that should be shown on walls. I don`t care about the value of this print (about the sales price of course), I just love the artwork and idea. If I manage to get one the price will be dead money as this print would never leave my house. I`d even buy it if it was an IKEA image. So if I get you right I should be satifsfied with a copy. I would be (if it was a good one) but I know the artist wouldn`t be happy about it so I couldn`t enjoy it - even knowing that he`d never know and this wouldn`t really harm the artist as this print edition is sold out and only flippers are profiting from the sales now. It just would be different. This may be stupid but that`s the way I feel. I cant believe people still talk about flipping prints - if you are concerned about this buy from source. if you miss out hard luck and onto the next one. At the end of the day is a piece of paper with a stag in it with some arrows in a field. The lesson is to buy from source and not the secondary market.
... which is hard if many flippers try it, too. but you're right, only buying at source would be the best thing.
Well, as some might know I`m only looking for a Pejac Meadow. Unfortunately after collecting funds for some months now that I have a buget that would have been enough for the last prices achieved but thanks to price manipulation prices seem to have doubled as it gets flipped and reflipped and rereflipped. So I`m not really happy about flipping, especially as there are so many "mint, never framed" ones out there that should be shown on walls. I don`t care about the value of this print (about the sales price of course), I just love the artwork and idea. If I manage to get one the price will be dead money as this print would never leave my house. I`d even buy it if it was an IKEA image. So if I get you right I should be satifsfied with a copy. I would be (if it was a good one) but I know the artist wouldn`t be happy about it so I couldn`t enjoy it - even knowing that he`d never know and this wouldn`t really harm the artist as this print edition is sold out and only flippers are profiting from the sales now. It just would be different. This may be stupid but that`s the way I feel. I cant believe people still talk about flipping prints - if you are concerned about this buy from source. if you miss out hard luck and onto the next one. At the end of the day is a piece of paper with a stag in it with some arrows in a field. The lesson is to buy from source and not the secondary market. ... which is hard if many flippers try it, too. but you're right, only buying at source would be the best thing. |
|
|
|
Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
|
Flipping Art โข The Debate, by Deleted on May 8, 2016 11:33:08 GMT 1, I cant believe people still talk about flipping prints - if you are concerned about this buy from source. if you miss out hard luck and onto the next one. At the end of the day is a piece of paper with a stag in it with some arrows in a field. The lesson is to buy from source and not the secondary market. ... which is hard if many flippers try it, too. but you're right, only buying at source would be the best thing.
Getting harder to buy at source due to number of flippers and those who buy multiples, 1 to keep and some to sell.
I cant believe people still talk about flipping prints - if you are concerned about this buy from source. if you miss out hard luck and onto the next one. At the end of the day is a piece of paper with a stag in it with some arrows in a field. The lesson is to buy from source and not the secondary market. ... which is hard if many flippers try it, too. but you're right, only buying at source would be the best thing. Getting harder to buy at source due to number of flippers and those who buy multiples, 1 to keep and some to sell. |
|
BKBOI
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,882
๐๐ป 1,694
January 2013
|
Flipping Art โข The Debate, by BKBOI on May 8, 2016 14:35:29 GMT 1, It is only harder to buy since you guys are paying money to flippers rather than investing that money for the next one. If you want to score the next release, you have to beat the flippers at their own game. And I am not talking about finger exercises to make you good at F5ing a web page.
This is a game, you win some and you lose some. No reason to bring up moral points. It is a piece of paper with pretty images and a signature. No one will starve or die because someone decided to try to profit from this hobby.
It is only harder to buy since you guys are paying money to flippers rather than investing that money for the next one. If you want to score the next release, you have to beat the flippers at their own game. And I am not talking about finger exercises to make you good at F5ing a web page.
This is a game, you win some and you lose some. No reason to bring up moral points. It is a piece of paper with pretty images and a signature. No one will starve or die because someone decided to try to profit from this hobby.
|
|
Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
|
Flipping Art โข The Debate, by Deleted on May 8, 2016 15:17:47 GMT 1, It is only harder to buy since you guys are paying money to flippers rather than investing that money for the next one. If you want to score the next release, you have to beat the flippers at their own game. And I am not talking about finger exercises to make you good at F5ing a web page. This is a game, you win some and you lose some. No reason to bring up moral points. It is a piece of paper with pretty images and a signature. No one will starve or die because someone decided to try to profit from this hobby.
Didnt think I was moralising, just stating that its getting harder to buy at source and cited a couple of what i believe are reasons for it. Another reason would be that lots more folks who buy to hang are interested in said print.
I've bought plenty of prints on secondary market years after a print release and paying whatever the market rate is at that time but I've never bought anything immediately post release from someone who bought it for the purpose of immediate resale.
It is only harder to buy since you guys are paying money to flippers rather than investing that money for the next one. If you want to score the next release, you have to beat the flippers at their own game. And I am not talking about finger exercises to make you good at F5ing a web page. This is a game, you win some and you lose some. No reason to bring up moral points. It is a piece of paper with pretty images and a signature. No one will starve or die because someone decided to try to profit from this hobby. Didnt think I was moralising, just stating that its getting harder to buy at source and cited a couple of what i believe are reasons for it. Another reason would be that lots more folks who buy to hang are interested in said print. I've bought plenty of prints on secondary market years after a print release and paying whatever the market rate is at that time but I've never bought anything immediately post release from someone who bought it for the purpose of immediate resale. |
|
RoboJ
Artist
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,202
๐๐ป 1,332
July 2015
|
Flipping Art โข The Debate, by RoboJ on May 8, 2016 15:45:18 GMT 1, Flippers, ticket touts, it's all the same.
Buying purely to sell straight away stops the majority of people who really want the tickets/art from being able to get it. It's buying it so the richest will pay you top dollar for it.
Flippers, ticket touts, it's all the same.
Buying purely to sell straight away stops the majority of people who really want the tickets/art from being able to get it. It's buying it so the richest will pay you top dollar for it.
|
|
|
|
Express Post
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 3,330
๐๐ป 2,479
January 2008
|
Flipping Art โข The Debate, by Express Post on Feb 10, 2020 23:58:16 GMT 1, On the flip side, pun intended, what about the art that is worth shit after you paid $x a few years earlier. It is not like the gallery or the artist is going to pay you back the difference.
On the flip side, pun intended, what about the art that is worth shit after you paid $x a few years earlier. It is not like the gallery or the artist is going to pay you back the difference.
|
|
Terry Fuckwitt
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 3,600
๐๐ป 6,562
October 2019
|
Flipping Art โข The Debate, by Terry Fuckwitt on Feb 10, 2020 23:58:39 GMT 1, I think this is the reason we are seeing noticeably huge inflation of prices from source nowadays. People here talking about the ridiculous pricing of Avant Arte, Counter Editions etc, but I think this is the way things are going, unfortunately.
It has become a problem and its no different to what was happening with gig ticket resellers years ago. Gig tickets for popular artists are now tiered pricing. Even from source they hold back tickets to sell at a premium aftermarket price.
I'm wafflin a bit and, but it's the fuckin Internet that's done all this.
Too many online galleries hyping, flipping and dumping, before moving on to the next new thing.
I think this is the reason we are seeing noticeably huge inflation of prices from source nowadays. People here talking about the ridiculous pricing of Avant Arte, Counter Editions etc, but I think this is the way things are going, unfortunately.
It has become a problem and its no different to what was happening with gig ticket resellers years ago. Gig tickets for popular artists are now tiered pricing. Even from source they hold back tickets to sell at a premium aftermarket price.
I'm wafflin a bit and, but it's the fuckin Internet that's done all this.
Too many online galleries hyping, flipping and dumping, before moving on to the next new thing.
|
|
LJCal
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,980
๐๐ป 4,523
December 2019
|
Flipping Art โข The Debate, by LJCal on Feb 11, 2020 0:12:24 GMT 1, What utter conceited tosh. Art is a commodity like any other, speculators help prop up the markets of many artists. This is just galleries bitching that traders and auction houses are eating their lunch.
What utter conceited tosh. Art is a commodity like any other, speculators help prop up the markets of many artists. This is just galleries bitching that traders and auction houses are eating their lunch.
|
|
Expressing their opinion on that type of thing is fine. I think some people would like some kind of rules on what and who are allowed to sell on this site, but it's not something I support.
