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Banksy Statement RE: Lyon & Turnbull, by alsbabar on Sept 29, 2008 0:52:42 GMT 1, is that quilted paper pfffffffffft?  (who is James Allen? , the name at the bottom.
James Allen is the owner of Punk Daisy, Art anorak galleries and member of the vermin "panel of experts"
is that quilted paper pfffffffffft? (who is James Allen? , the name at the bottom. James Allen is the owner of Punk Daisy, Art anorak galleries and member of the vermin "panel of experts" |
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Banksy Statement RE: Lyon & Turnbull, by ejvaze on Sept 29, 2008 1:02:25 GMT 1, (who is James Allen? , the name at the bottom. James Allen is the owner of Punk Daisy, Art anorak galleries and member of the vermin "panel of experts"
Mental note to myself.... EVER DEAL WITH PUNK DAISY 
BTW seems he has been too busy with his VERMIN venture to update his web site which is very out of date so it would seem. Says all their Banksy works are on loan to the Vanina Holasek Gallery in NY well THAT exhibition ended on the 29th December 2007 
(who is James Allen? , the name at the bottom. James Allen is the owner of Punk Daisy, Art anorak galleries and member of the vermin "panel of experts" Mental note to myself.... EVER DEAL WITH PUNK DAISY BTW seems he has been too busy with his VERMIN venture to update his web site which is very out of date so it would seem. Says all their Banksy works are on loan to the Vanina Holasek Gallery in NY well THAT exhibition ended on the 29th December 2007 |
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Banksy Statement RE: Lyon & Turnbull, by alsbabar on Sept 29, 2008 1:05:41 GMT 1, Vanina Holasek Gallery - did a Banksy show, which was also put on by bankrobber
Vanina Holasek Gallery - did a Banksy show, which was also put on by bankrobber
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Banksy Statement RE: Lyon & Turnbull, by ejvaze on Sept 29, 2008 1:13:43 GMT 1, Vanina Holasek Gallery - did a Banksy show, which was also put on by bankrobber
Well there you go everybody
Vanina Holasek Gallery - did a Banksy show, which was also put on by bankrobber Well there you go everybody |
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Banksy Statement RE: Lyon & Turnbull, by aginghippie on Sept 29, 2008 1:15:54 GMT 1, And if Banksy decided to just not authenticate street works fine, but my issue is that he came out very publicly warning people not to buy street works but to buy his work through legal channels such as his gallery where he would get even more rich.
Wrong, what he said was buy Pest Control authenticated work and, when people pay them Artist's Rights aside, he needn't see a penny. Laz aren't the only people selling legit Banksy works.
Wrong again, it's nothing to do with Banksy. When they put these pieces up for auction they moved from street rules to art market rules, and the rules in the art market say you cannot do what they tried to do. For blindingly obvious reasons the art market will not recognise an authentication body invented to authenticate work the artist refuses to authenticate.
I'm not saying you can't sell unauthenticated works, of course you can, it's that the art market sees them as damaged goods and marks them down accordingly. Just printing certificates saying they are real isn't going to solve that problem.
And if Banksy decided to just not authenticate street works fine, but my issue is that he came out very publicly warning people not to buy street works but to buy his work through legal channels such as his gallery where he would get even more rich. Wrong, what he said was buy Pest Control authenticated work and, when people pay them Artist's Rights aside, he needn't see a penny. Laz aren't the only people selling legit Banksy works. Wrong again, it's nothing to do with Banksy. When they put these pieces up for auction they moved from street rules to art market rules, and the rules in the art market say you cannot do what they tried to do. For blindingly obvious reasons the art market will not recognise an authentication body invented to authenticate work the artist refuses to authenticate. I'm not saying you can't sell unauthenticated works, of course you can, it's that the art market sees them as damaged goods and marks them down accordingly. Just printing certificates saying they are real isn't going to solve that problem. |
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Banksy Statement RE: Lyon & Turnbull, by alsbabar on Sept 29, 2008 1:20:20 GMT 1, Vanina Holasek Gallery - did a Banksy show, which was also put on by bankrobber Well there you go everybody
to be more precise - it was put on by Artificial Gallery, Punk Daisy and Bankrobber - the same people who set up vermin
www.banksy.us/
and well said aginghippie
Vanina Holasek Gallery - did a Banksy show, which was also put on by bankrobber Well there you go everybody to be more precise - it was put on by Artificial Gallery, Punk Daisy and Bankrobber - the same people who set up vermin www.banksy.us/and well said aginghippie |
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Banksy Statement RE: Lyon & Turnbull, by snausages on Sept 29, 2008 1:31:22 GMT 1, And if Banksy decided to just not authenticate street works fine, but my issue is that he came out very publicly warning people not to buy street works but to buy his work through legal channels such as his gallery where he would get even more rich. Wrong, what he said was buy Pest Control authenticated work and, when people pay them Artist's Rights aside, he needn't see a penny. Laz aren't the only people selling legit Banksy works.
Laz or pest control, you're splitting hairs, what he wants is people to buy from Laz or pieces that have previsouly been sold through Laz (i.e. he makes money or else it at least supports his art market)
Wrong again? Where is the rule written that the art market won't recognize a panel of experts opinion on the authenticity of something? They do it all the time. If the artist refuses to authenticate something it's fair game for others to step in and do so. If you don't like it then don't bid on it, plain and simple.
And if Banksy decided to just not authenticate street works fine, but my issue is that he came out very publicly warning people not to buy street works but to buy his work through legal channels such as his gallery where he would get even more rich. Wrong, what he said was buy Pest Control authenticated work and, when people pay them Artist's Rights aside, he needn't see a penny. Laz aren't the only people selling legit Banksy works. Laz or pest control, you're splitting hairs, what he wants is people to buy from Laz or pieces that have previsouly been sold through Laz (i.e. he makes money or else it at least supports his art market) Wrong again? Where is the rule written that the art market won't recognize a panel of experts opinion on the authenticity of something? They do it all the time. If the artist refuses to authenticate something it's fair game for others to step in and do so. If you don't like it then don't bid on it, plain and simple. |
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Banksy Statement RE: Lyon & Turnbull, by alsbabar on Sept 29, 2008 1:36:12 GMT 1, Wrong again? Where is the rule written that the art market won't recognize a panel of experts opinion on the authenticity of something? They do it all the time. If the artist refuses to authenticate something it's fair game for others to step in and do so. If you don't like it then don't bid on it, plain and simple.
can you give me an example of where a panel of experts authenticity of something has superceded the refusal of works by a LIVING artist?
Wrong again? Where is the rule written that the art market won't recognize a panel of experts opinion on the authenticity of something? They do it all the time. If the artist refuses to authenticate something it's fair game for others to step in and do so. If you don't like it then don't bid on it, plain and simple. can you give me an example of where a panel of experts authenticity of something has superceded the refusal of works by a LIVING artist? |
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Banksy Statement RE: Lyon & Turnbull, by snausages on Sept 29, 2008 1:38:14 GMT 1, Can you give me an example of a living artist who refuses to authenticate works of art that he has made?
Can you give me an example of a living artist who refuses to authenticate works of art that he has made?
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Banksy Statement RE: Lyon & Turnbull, by alsbabar on Sept 29, 2008 1:40:17 GMT 1, Can you give me an example of a living artist who refuses to authenticate works of art that he has made?
I asked first
Can you give me an example of a living artist who refuses to authenticate works of art that he has made? I asked first |
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Banksy Statement RE: Lyon & Turnbull, by snausages on Sept 29, 2008 1:44:13 GMT 1, asked first? Grow up.
asked first? Grow up.
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cutty
New Member
🗨️ 226
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April 2008
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Banksy Statement RE: Lyon & Turnbull, by cutty on Sept 29, 2008 1:44:34 GMT 1, So if you find art on your wall and cut it out and hang it, is that OK? ?
Cheers
So if you find art on your wall and cut it out and hang it, is that OK? ? Cheers |
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Banksy Statement RE: Lyon & Turnbull, by alsbabar on Sept 29, 2008 1:46:19 GMT 1,
is that your response, or you going to dazzle us with an answer to my question?
is that your response, or you going to dazzle us with an answer to my question? |
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Banksy Statement RE: Lyon & Turnbull, by snausages on Sept 29, 2008 1:54:42 GMT 1, What an absolute child you are. Give me the name of a living artist who refuses to authenticate his own works otherwise you don't have a point.
What an absolute child you are. Give me the name of a living artist who refuses to authenticate his own works otherwise you don't have a point.
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Banksy Statement RE: Lyon & Turnbull, by pfffffffffft on Sept 29, 2008 1:56:16 GMT 1, Can you give me an example of a living artist who refuses to authenticate works of art that he has made?
Tracey Emins, and it's a she:
Tracey Emin is engaged in an artistic tug of war with a group of school children over a patchwork quilt.
The Britart star, whose first experiment with bed linen was snapped up by Charles Saatchi for £150,000, is demanding the return of a blanket made with eight-year-olds as part of an art project after the school involved tried to auction it.
The gallery says Ms Emin wants the quilt - currently packed up in an orange bag in the school's storeroom - handed back, sharpish. And in case Ecclesbourne persists in trying to sell, White Cube warns, its former artist-in-residence is refusing to authenticate the work as hers, sending its value crashing.
The artist's response - denying authorship but asking for the blanket back - is contradictory, the school claims.
www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2004/mar/30/schools.arts
Can you give me an example of a living artist who refuses to authenticate works of art that he has made? Tracey Emins, and it's a she: Tracey Emin is engaged in an artistic tug of war with a group of school children over a patchwork quilt. The Britart star, whose first experiment with bed linen was snapped up by Charles Saatchi for £150,000, is demanding the return of a blanket made with eight-year-olds as part of an art project after the school involved tried to auction it. The gallery says Ms Emin wants the quilt - currently packed up in an orange bag in the school's storeroom - handed back, sharpish. And in case Ecclesbourne persists in trying to sell, White Cube warns, its former artist-in-residence is refusing to authenticate the work as hers, sending its value crashing. The artist's response - denying authorship but asking for the blanket back - is contradictory, the school claims. www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2004/mar/30/schools.arts |
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Banksy Statement RE: Lyon & Turnbull, by alsbabar on Sept 29, 2008 1:59:16 GMT 1, What an absolute child you are. Give me the name of a living artist who refuses to authenticate his own works otherwise you don't have a point.
i dont have to give you an answer, its not me making sweeping statements. Now either give us an answer to the question, or just admit, you don't have an example.
When you do, I will answer your question. Till then, it would appear an "absolute child" has punched a massive whole in your argument!!!
What an absolute child you are. Give me the name of a living artist who refuses to authenticate his own works otherwise you don't have a point. i dont have to give you an answer, its not me making sweeping statements. Now either give us an answer to the question, or just admit, you don't have an example. When you do, I will answer your question. Till then, it would appear an "absolute child" has punched a massive whole in your argument!!! |
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jam
Junior Member
🗨️ 1,629
👍🏻 31
November 2006
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Banksy Statement RE: Lyon & Turnbull, by jam on Sept 29, 2008 2:01:43 GMT 1, Wrong again? Where is the rule written that the art market won't recognize a panel of experts opinion on the authenticity of something? They do it all the time. If the artist refuses to authenticate something it's fair game for others to step in and do so. If you don't like it then don't bid on it, plain and simple.
What qualifies anyone from Vermin to call themselves a "panel of experts"?
Wrong again? Where is the rule written that the art market won't recognize a panel of experts opinion on the authenticity of something? They do it all the time. If the artist refuses to authenticate something it's fair game for others to step in and do so. If you don't like it then don't bid on it, plain and simple. What qualifies anyone from Vermin to call themselves a "panel of experts"? |
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Banksy Statement RE: Lyon & Turnbull, by ejvaze on Sept 29, 2008 2:09:38 GMT 1, If the artist refuses to authenticate something it's fair game for others to step in and do so. If you don't like it then don't bid on it, plain and simple.
I agree with Jam
What qualifies anyone from Vermin to call themselves a "panel of experts"?
also so it's Fair GAME to you I see.
and whats more
The Buyers did just that they DID NOT like the VERMIN authentication and, plain and simply DID NOT BID hence the VERMIN lots going unsold
If the artist refuses to authenticate something it's fair game for others to step in and do so. If you don't like it then don't bid on it, plain and simple. I agree with Jam What qualifies anyone from Vermin to call themselves a "panel of experts"? also so it's Fair GAME to you I see. and whats more The Buyers did just that they DID NOT like the VERMIN authentication and, plain and simply DID NOT BID hence the VERMIN lots going unsold |
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Banksy Statement RE: Lyon & Turnbull, by snausages on Sept 29, 2008 2:22:13 GMT 1, i dont have to give you an answer, its not me making sweeping statements. Now either give us an answer to the question, or just admit, you don't have an example. When you do, I will answer your question. Till then, it would appear an "absolute child" has punched a massive whole in your argument!!!
i dont have to give you an answer, its not me making sweeping statements. Now either give us an answer to the question, or just admit, you don't have an example. When you do, I will answer your question. Till then, it would appear an "absolute child" has punched a massive whole in your argument!!! You sir, are an utter moron. |
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Banksy Statement RE: Lyon & Turnbull, by alsbabar on Sept 29, 2008 2:23:44 GMT 1, i dont have to give you an answer, its not me making sweeping statements. Now either give us an answer to the question, or just admit, you don't have an example. When you do, I will answer your question. Till then, it would appear an "absolute child" has punched a massive whole in your argument!!! You sir, are an utter moron.
i take it then by resorting to name calling and not answering my question, you dont have an example
i dont have to give you an answer, its not me making sweeping statements. Now either give us an answer to the question, or just admit, you don't have an example. When you do, I will answer your question. Till then, it would appear an "absolute child" has punched a massive whole in your argument!!! You sir, are an utter moron. i take it then by resorting to name calling and not answering my question, you dont have an example |
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Banksy Statement RE: Lyon & Turnbull, by snausages on Sept 29, 2008 2:28:22 GMT 1, Can you give me an example of a living artist who refuses to authenticate works of art that he has made? Tracey Emins, and it's a she: Tracey Emin is engaged in an artistic tug of war with a group of school children over a patchwork quilt. The Britart star, whose first experiment with bed linen was snapped up by Charles Saatchi for £150,000, is demanding the return of a blanket made with eight-year-olds as part of an art project after the school involved tried to auction it. The gallery says Ms Emin wants the quilt - currently packed up in an orange bag in the school's storeroom - handed back, sharpish. And in case Ecclesbourne persists in trying to sell, White Cube warns, its former artist-in-residence is refusing to authenticate the work as hers, sending its value crashing. The artist's response - denying authorship but asking for the blanket back - is contradictory, the school claims. www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2004/mar/30/schools.arts
Good example not perfect though. But as noted in the article.
"while an artist might not sign an artwork to prove authorship, Sotheby's could still sell the piece, making clear its history." And do you think there are no 'experts' at Sotheby's that would go over this before they'd sell it? Of course they would. Would the value of this be tarnished because of the row with the artist? Most likely. Does it mean that it was not a collaboration with the artist. Of course not. It's not a perfect example with Banksy because it was a collaboration and gift.
And the school is right, "denying authorship but asking for the blanket back - is contradictory, the school claims." It's pretty clear it's authentic and perhaps a collector might buy up the bargain hoping this all blows over in years. I will agree though that it is questionable taste for the school to sell it.
In contrast my problem with Banksy though is that they weren't collaborations and the idea that Banksy should retain ownership of property that isn't his and never was his and when the work was not sanctioned is ridiculous.
Can you give me an example of a living artist who refuses to authenticate works of art that he has made? Tracey Emins, and it's a she: Tracey Emin is engaged in an artistic tug of war with a group of school children over a patchwork quilt. The Britart star, whose first experiment with bed linen was snapped up by Charles Saatchi for £150,000, is demanding the return of a blanket made with eight-year-olds as part of an art project after the school involved tried to auction it. The gallery says Ms Emin wants the quilt - currently packed up in an orange bag in the school's storeroom - handed back, sharpish. And in case Ecclesbourne persists in trying to sell, White Cube warns, its former artist-in-residence is refusing to authenticate the work as hers, sending its value crashing. The artist's response - denying authorship but asking for the blanket back - is contradictory, the school claims. www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2004/mar/30/schools.artsGood example not perfect though. But as noted in the article. "while an artist might not sign an artwork to prove authorship, Sotheby's could still sell the piece, making clear its history." And do you think there are no 'experts' at Sotheby's that would go over this before they'd sell it? Of course they would. Would the value of this be tarnished because of the row with the artist? Most likely. Does it mean that it was not a collaboration with the artist. Of course not. It's not a perfect example with Banksy because it was a collaboration and gift. And the school is right, "denying authorship but asking for the blanket back - is contradictory, the school claims." It's pretty clear it's authentic and perhaps a collector might buy up the bargain hoping this all blows over in years. I will agree though that it is questionable taste for the school to sell it. In contrast my problem with Banksy though is that they weren't collaborations and the idea that Banksy should retain ownership of property that isn't his and never was his and when the work was not sanctioned is ridiculous. |
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Banksy Statement RE: Lyon & Turnbull, by pfffffffffft on Sept 29, 2008 2:38:05 GMT 1, Good example not perfect though. But as noted in the article. "while an artist might not sign an artwork to prove authorship, Sotheby's could still sell the piece, making clear its history." And do you think there are no 'experts' at Sotheby's that would go over this before they'd sell it? Of course they would. Would the value of this be tarnished because of the row with the artist? Most likely. Does it mean that it was not a collaboration with the artist. Of course not. It's not a perfect example with Banksy because it was a collaboration and gift. And it's pretty clear that the artist was involved in the piece. In contrast my problem with Banksy though is that they weren't collaborations and the idea that Banksy should retain ownership of property that isn't his and never was his and the work was not sanctioned is ridiculous.
The artist refuses to authenticate a work she did. Period. Sorry, proven, done.
On top of that, the artist is doing EXACTLY what Banksy is doing refusing to authenticate a piece that was meant to be shared so that someone may sell it for profit.
No one said Banksy is retaining ownership, he is trying to protect the street pieces owned by all of us.
Good example not perfect though. But as noted in the article. "while an artist might not sign an artwork to prove authorship, Sotheby's could still sell the piece, making clear its history." And do you think there are no 'experts' at Sotheby's that would go over this before they'd sell it? Of course they would. Would the value of this be tarnished because of the row with the artist? Most likely. Does it mean that it was not a collaboration with the artist. Of course not. It's not a perfect example with Banksy because it was a collaboration and gift. And it's pretty clear that the artist was involved in the piece. In contrast my problem with Banksy though is that they weren't collaborations and the idea that Banksy should retain ownership of property that isn't his and never was his and the work was not sanctioned is ridiculous. The artist refuses to authenticate a work she did. Period. Sorry, proven, done. On top of that, the artist is doing EXACTLY what Banksy is doing refusing to authenticate a piece that was meant to be shared so that someone may sell it for profit. No one said Banksy is retaining ownership, he is trying to protect the street pieces owned by all of us. |
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Banksy Statement RE: Lyon & Turnbull, by snausages on Sept 29, 2008 2:52:46 GMT 1, Sorry but no, nothing was 'proven.'
A. Emin collaborate on this project as a gift to the school. B. The school wants to sell it and the artist is upset about it. C. Expert contends that Sotheby's could still sell it even if the artist refuses to authenticate.
You've proven nothing.
Sorry but no, nothing was 'proven.'
A. Emin collaborate on this project as a gift to the school. B. The school wants to sell it and the artist is upset about it. C. Expert contends that Sotheby's could still sell it even if the artist refuses to authenticate.
You've proven nothing.
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Banksy Statement RE: Lyon & Turnbull, by pfffffffffft on Sept 29, 2008 2:58:08 GMT 1, Sorry but no, nothing was 'proven.' A. Emin collaborate on this project as a gift to the school. B. The school wants to sell it and the artist is upset about it. C. Expert contends that Sotheby's could still sell it even if the artist refuses to authenticate. You've proven nothing.
You asked for an example, I gave one. Now you change the rules.
but following your logic
a. banksy works on a project as a gift to all of us
b. a thief wants to sell it and the artist is upset about it
c. expert contends that lyon & turnbull could still sell it even if artist refutes authentication.
game, set, match.
Sorry but no, nothing was 'proven.' A. Emin collaborate on this project as a gift to the school. B. The school wants to sell it and the artist is upset about it. C. Expert contends that Sotheby's could still sell it even if the artist refuses to authenticate. You've proven nothing. You asked for an example, I gave one. Now you change the rules. but following your logic a. banksy works on a project as a gift to all of us b. a thief wants to sell it and the artist is upset about it c. expert contends that lyon & turnbull could still sell it even if artist refutes authentication. game, set, match. |
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Banksy Statement RE: Lyon & Turnbull, by snausages on Sept 29, 2008 3:07:43 GMT 1, Oh god really??? Banksy works on a project as "a gift to all of us" Jeeesus ch!st... Laying it on pretty thick there eh?
You don't think there are experts at Sotheby's who would validate that Emin piece? Of course Sothebys will have experts look at the piece and authenticate it. Is it as good as Emin authenticating it, well not quite and as I said I agree the value of that piece would probably be tarnished. But yup, as I said there are experts who will authenticate works of art even when an artist or estate refuses to.
And again, the Emin is not a perfect comparison because in those situations it's typical that a piece like that is considered a gift to the school. It's not too surprising that she's upset that they want to sell it. When Banksy paints on a wall, window door of property he doesn't own. It's not a f&*king "gift." It's self promotion.
Oh god really??? Banksy works on a project as "a gift to all of us" Jeeesus ch!st... Laying it on pretty thick there eh? You don't think there are experts at Sotheby's who would validate that Emin piece? Of course Sothebys will have experts look at the piece and authenticate it. Is it as good as Emin authenticating it, well not quite and as I said I agree the value of that piece would probably be tarnished. But yup, as I said there are experts who will authenticate works of art even when an artist or estate refuses to. And again, the Emin is not a perfect comparison because in those situations it's typical that a piece like that is considered a gift to the school. It's not too surprising that she's upset that they want to sell it. When Banksy paints on a wall, window door of property he doesn't own. It's not a f&*king "gift." It's self promotion. |
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Banksy Statement RE: Lyon & Turnbull, by alsbabar on Sept 29, 2008 3:13:03 GMT 1, snausages you have proven nothing, you gave a shit example citing Sothebys', if this "panel" were adamant this piece is authentic, why has it not been in to auction and sold? It wont ever because they will face the same shitty backlash that your mates at Lyon ant Turnbull did. pfffffffft has given you a good one example, so give up man, for fucks sake, your pathetic drumming of Banksy is getting boring.
snausages you have proven nothing, you gave a shit example citing Sothebys', if this "panel" were adamant this piece is authentic, why has it not been in to auction and sold? It wont ever because they will face the same shitty backlash that your mates at Lyon ant Turnbull did. pfffffffft has given you a good one example, so give up man, for fucks sake, your pathetic drumming of Banksy is getting boring.
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Banksy Statement RE: Lyon & Turnbull, by alsbabar on Sept 29, 2008 3:15:24 GMT 1, Robin....see this...it's not even worth the paper it's printed on. 
this is the packaging it comes in
Robin....see this...it's not even worth the paper it's printed on. this is the packaging it comes in |
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Banksy Statement RE: Lyon & Turnbull, by snausages on Sept 29, 2008 3:22:34 GMT 1, snausages you have proven nothing, you gave a s**t example citing Sothebys', if this "panel" were adamant this piece is authentic, why has it not been in to auction and sold? It wont ever because they will face the same s**tty backlash that your mates at Lyon ant Turnbull did. pfffffffft has given you a good one example, so give up man, for f**ks sake, your pathetic drumming of Banksy is getting boring.
ALsblabbar At least pffft could find an example. (even if not perfect) What the hell have you done except relentlessly pumping out idiotic hatred. Isn't it your bed time?
snausages you have proven nothing, you gave a s**t example citing Sothebys', if this "panel" were adamant this piece is authentic, why has it not been in to auction and sold? It wont ever because they will face the same s**tty backlash that your mates at Lyon ant Turnbull did. pfffffffft has given you a good one example, so give up man, for f**ks sake, your pathetic drumming of Banksy is getting boring. ALsblabbar At least pffft could find an example. (even if not perfect) What the hell have you done except relentlessly pumping out idiotic hatred. Isn't it your bed time? |
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Banksy Statement RE: Lyon & Turnbull, by aginghippie on Sept 29, 2008 4:05:21 GMT 1, Laz or pest control, you're splitting hairs, what he wants is people to buy from Laz or pieces that have previously been sold through Laz (i.e. he makes money or else it at least supports his art market)
An artist supports his gallery, shock and horror!!! No really, the bulk of any artists work lies in the secondary market and neither he nor Laz (by definition) derive any significant income from that market.
You seem to have missed my last paragraph so here it is again:
I'm not saying you can't sell unauthenticated works, of course you can, it's that the art market sees them as damaged goods and marks them down accordingly. Just printing certificates saying they are real isn't going to solve that problem.
I stand by my comment - if the artist doesn't authenticate the work then the art market regards it as unauthenticated and marks it down accordingly.
As for a living artist who refused to authenticate his work the one that springs to mind is Picasso. He paid a printer in kind for some work on condition the works given were never sold. Later the printer tried to sell them Picasso refused to authenticate them. Picasso regarded most works given as gifts as outside his body of work and often refused authentication.
My turn now. Give me some examples of living artists where work they have refused to authenticate has been authenticated by a third party *and* reached the same value as an artist authenticated work (have to add that bit or Vermin and Banksy would count with the L+T auction).
Laz or pest control, you're splitting hairs, what he wants is people to buy from Laz or pieces that have previously been sold through Laz (i.e. he makes money or else it at least supports his art market) An artist supports his gallery, shock and horror!!! No really, the bulk of any artists work lies in the secondary market and neither he nor Laz (by definition) derive any significant income from that market. You seem to have missed my last paragraph so here it is again: I'm not saying you can't sell unauthenticated works, of course you can, it's that the art market sees them as damaged goods and marks them down accordingly. Just printing certificates saying they are real isn't going to solve that problem.I stand by my comment - if the artist doesn't authenticate the work then the art market regards it as unauthenticated and marks it down accordingly. As for a living artist who refused to authenticate his work the one that springs to mind is Picasso. He paid a printer in kind for some work on condition the works given were never sold. Later the printer tried to sell them Picasso refused to authenticate them. Picasso regarded most works given as gifts as outside his body of work and often refused authentication. My turn now. Give me some examples of living artists where work they have refused to authenticate has been authenticated by a third party *and* reached the same value as an artist authenticated work (have to add that bit or Vermin and Banksy would count with the L+T auction). |
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Banksy Statement RE: Lyon & Turnbull, by pfffffffffft on Sept 29, 2008 4:20:58 GMT 1, Oh god really??? Banksy works on a project as "a gift to all of us" Jeeesus ch!st... Laying it on pretty thick there eh? You don't think there are experts at Sotheby's who would validate that Emin piece? Of course Sothebys will have experts look at the piece and authenticate it. Is it as good as Emin authenticating it, well not quite and as I said I agree the value of that piece would probably be tarnished. But yup, as I said there are experts who will authenticate works of art even when an artist or estate refuses to. And again, the Emin is not a perfect comparison because in those situations it's typical that a piece like that is considered a gift to the school. It's not too surprising that she's upset that they want to sell it. When Banksy paints on a wall, window door of property he doesn't own. It's not a f&*king "gift." It's self promotion.
I suppose we all have our own perceptions but the bottom line is the artist is choosing not to authenticate the work because the intention was that it was not to be sold. Just as in the case of Emin.
Side note, the experts at Lyon authenticated those works as well. The artist refuses to authenticate and that typically is considered the ultimate word.
Oh god really??? Banksy works on a project as "a gift to all of us" Jeeesus ch!st... Laying it on pretty thick there eh? You don't think there are experts at Sotheby's who would validate that Emin piece? Of course Sothebys will have experts look at the piece and authenticate it. Is it as good as Emin authenticating it, well not quite and as I said I agree the value of that piece would probably be tarnished. But yup, as I said there are experts who will authenticate works of art even when an artist or estate refuses to. And again, the Emin is not a perfect comparison because in those situations it's typical that a piece like that is considered a gift to the school. It's not too surprising that she's upset that they want to sell it. When Banksy paints on a wall, window door of property he doesn't own. It's not a f&*king "gift." It's self promotion. I suppose we all have our own perceptions but the bottom line is the artist is choosing not to authenticate the work because the intention was that it was not to be sold. Just as in the case of Emin. Side note, the experts at Lyon authenticated those works as well. The artist refuses to authenticate and that typically is considered the ultimate word. |
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(who is James Allen? , the name at the bottom.
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