fedjarojnik
New Member
Posts โข 31
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August 2007
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4 NEW IAN FRANCIS PRINTS ON BLK MARKET NOW, by fedjarojnik on Nov 1, 2007 13:14:59 GMT 1, it depends how you look at it. i was personally taken back at how the micallef auctions went from 20 to over 140 overnight after the last laz release - maybe i am naive but i didnt expect it. admitedly the prints were not amazing, but none the less. So if up to 120 new auctions popped up, you could roughly say that 1/4 to 1/2 of the prints were bought to be immediately sold (as some auctions had a set of 4 or 2) - and thats just on the bay. I assume the story is/will be exactly the same with trolleys. I doubt 50-100 IF prints will end up on the bay from these 200, although i am sure that some will. So what is prefferable? If we say this a cash game, then for sure, everybody should have the same chance to make a fast buck! If we look at it, differently ie that everybody realises that a fast buck could be made, but some people really want his work on the wall (and even though they are prepared to buy on the secondary market - which for ian is not as developed as for banksy or micallef - i think a max 10-20 pieces if that on the bay or forums that i have detected so far) then i think some selection made by the gallery and artist to give 1st prefference to those who have somehow qualified an interest (not just signed up) is prefferebale as at this stage, there is no other way to get hold of his work...
keep in mind, that there were up to now, 100 black market prints, 1000 collectors prints, i think 100 red propeller ones (not sure) and then 200 of these black market so 1400 or max 1500 in circulation from IF work.
it depends how you look at it. i was personally taken back at how the micallef auctions went from 20 to over 140 overnight after the last laz release - maybe i am naive but i didnt expect it. admitedly the prints were not amazing, but none the less. So if up to 120 new auctions popped up, you could roughly say that 1/4 to 1/2 of the prints were bought to be immediately sold (as some auctions had a set of 4 or 2) - and thats just on the bay. I assume the story is/will be exactly the same with trolleys. I doubt 50-100 IF prints will end up on the bay from these 200, although i am sure that some will. So what is prefferable? If we say this a cash game, then for sure, everybody should have the same chance to make a fast buck! If we look at it, differently ie that everybody realises that a fast buck could be made, but some people really want his work on the wall (and even though they are prepared to buy on the secondary market - which for ian is not as developed as for banksy or micallef - i think a max 10-20 pieces if that on the bay or forums that i have detected so far) then i think some selection made by the gallery and artist to give 1st prefference to those who have somehow qualified an interest (not just signed up) is prefferebale as at this stage, there is no other way to get hold of his work...
keep in mind, that there were up to now, 100 black market prints, 1000 collectors prints, i think 100 red propeller ones (not sure) and then 200 of these black market so 1400 or max 1500 in circulation from IF work.
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dmandpenfold
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,466
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December 2006
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4 NEW IAN FRANCIS PRINTS ON BLK MARKET NOW, by dmandpenfold on Nov 1, 2007 13:16:38 GMT 1, Okay then... who REALLY wants one of these? I can help a trustworthy forum member out, most likely.
Pm'd if you can help that's great, hope someone can benefit from your offer
Okay then... who REALLY wants one of these? I can help a trustworthy forum member out, most likely. Pm'd if you can help that's great, hope someone can benefit from your offer
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pezlow
Junior Member
Posts โข 5,388
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January 2007
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4 NEW IAN FRANCIS PRINTS ON BLK MARKET NOW, by pezlow on Nov 1, 2007 13:29:32 GMT 1, Sure a lot of the micallef prints were flipped. Although even if it were as many as 120 (which I am not convinced about) out of 1600 released that is only 7.5% of them. So a similar number out of the 200 prints released here would be 15 prints flipped. Who is to say whether there will be more or less.
All I do know is that when Frankie tried to sell All Fall Down to people on here through a secret sale LOADS of them ended up on the bay.
Of course there is no perfect way to make a sale. So you have to try and be fair. And release them for everyone to buy. And yes you know that some of those people will be flippers and some wont.
Sure a lot of the micallef prints were flipped. Although even if it were as many as 120 (which I am not convinced about) out of 1600 released that is only 7.5% of them. So a similar number out of the 200 prints released here would be 15 prints flipped. Who is to say whether there will be more or less.
All I do know is that when Frankie tried to sell All Fall Down to people on here through a secret sale LOADS of them ended up on the bay.
Of course there is no perfect way to make a sale. So you have to try and be fair. And release them for everyone to buy. And yes you know that some of those people will be flippers and some wont.
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uglyiq
New Member
Posts โข 135
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June 2007
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4 NEW IAN FRANCIS PRINTS ON BLK MARKET NOW, by uglyiq on Nov 1, 2007 13:38:34 GMT 1, I missed these (again) & the Banksy's (again)... You guys think it's hard getting prints in your basket on UK Broadband links - try living in Moscow with a 52k dial up - by the time I've opened the page the whole edition has gone !
Anyway if anyone is willing to part with 1 of the Francis Prints please PM me - I'm relying on the kindness of strangers (again) and will honour the favour however I can
I missed these (again) & the Banksy's (again)... You guys think it's hard getting prints in your basket on UK Broadband links - try living in Moscow with a 52k dial up - by the time I've opened the page the whole edition has gone !
Anyway if anyone is willing to part with 1 of the Francis Prints please PM me - I'm relying on the kindness of strangers (again) and will honour the favour however I can
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headphonesex
New Member
Posts โข 580
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January 2006
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4 NEW IAN FRANCIS PRINTS ON BLK MARKET NOW, by headphonesex on Nov 1, 2007 13:51:58 GMT 1, Sure a lot of the micallef prints were flipped. Although even if it were as many as 120 (which I am not convinced about) out of 1600 released that is only 7.5% of them. So a similar number out of the 200 prints released here would be 15 prints flipped. Who is to say whether there will be more or less. All I do know is that when Frankie tried to sell All Fall Down to people on here through a secret sale LOADS of them ended up on the bay. Of course there is no perfect way to make a sale. So you have to try and be fair. And release them for everyone to buy. And yes you know that some of those people will be flippers and some wont.
I'm sure Beejoir's SBFO must be the most flipped print in history. The numbers on ebay have been staggering compared to the edition size. And i'd guess that was sold almost entirely to people on this forum. Let's face it he's not very well known (yet) off it.
People whining 'sell stuff to the real fans on the forum' are deluded.
This place would be a hundred times better if I didn't have constantly read about flippers and 'why have I been negged?'
Sure a lot of the micallef prints were flipped. Although even if it were as many as 120 (which I am not convinced about) out of 1600 released that is only 7.5% of them. So a similar number out of the 200 prints released here would be 15 prints flipped. Who is to say whether there will be more or less. All I do know is that when Frankie tried to sell All Fall Down to people on here through a secret sale LOADS of them ended up on the bay. Of course there is no perfect way to make a sale. So you have to try and be fair. And release them for everyone to buy. And yes you know that some of those people will be flippers and some wont. I'm sure Beejoir's SBFO must be the most flipped print in history. The numbers on ebay have been staggering compared to the edition size. And i'd guess that was sold almost entirely to people on this forum. Let's face it he's not very well known (yet) off it. People whining 'sell stuff to the real fans on the forum' are deluded. This place would be a hundred times better if I didn't have constantly read about flippers and 'why have I been negged?'
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Matt-lock
New Member
Posts โข 921
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June 2007
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4 NEW IAN FRANCIS PRINTS ON BLK MARKET NOW, by Matt-lock on Nov 1, 2007 17:45:25 GMT 1, I like the 50 editions as well, keeps them desirable and more accessible than when they were 25 before... is there a planned show for IF in 2008? is anyone here going to be proud owner of all 8 prints from both releases? What a wall that would be!
I'm very fortunate that I now have 6 out of the 8...still missing Pikachu and Girl Sleeps but I don't think I need those at this point. These are going to take up enough room on the walls as it is.
I like the 50 editions as well, keeps them desirable and more accessible than when they were 25 before... is there a planned show for IF in 2008? is anyone here going to be proud owner of all 8 prints from both releases? What a wall that would be! I'm very fortunate that I now have 6 out of the 8...still missing Pikachu and Girl Sleeps but I don't think I need those at this point. These are going to take up enough room on the walls as it is.
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morrissey1
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Posts โข 924
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October 2007
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4 NEW IAN FRANCIS PRINTS ON BLK MARKET NOW, by morrissey1 on Nov 1, 2007 20:16:35 GMT 1, just had the shipping charges refunded on 2 of my 3 prints...so it looks as though that shipping fee was based on 4 prints being shipped....so now it doesn't seem quite so expensive...nice
just had the shipping charges refunded on 2 of my 3 prints...so it looks as though that shipping fee was based on 4 prints being shipped....so now it doesn't seem quite so expensive...nice
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stereoface
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Posts โข 122
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July 2007
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4 NEW IAN FRANCIS PRINTS ON BLK MARKET NOW, by stereoface on Nov 1, 2007 20:32:17 GMT 1, I think that Pez is right on. It shouldnt be up to the gallery to define who is deserving and who is not deserving. No one should be forced to justify that they are a real fan by sending x amount of emails or making y amount of posts. I had never seen Francis until this thread. I think it is awesome and hope that I can have a chance at the next release. Am I less deserving because I havent bought something in the pase?
Also, the idea that creating these lists would prevent flipping just doesnt make sense. If anything, I could see it having the oppisite effect. Once a flipper buys one he is entitled to be privy to the "secret list" and then has the opportunity at getting them the next time. The people who flip prints will flip no matter what ... they will get on the lists, will have bought before, and will spend tons of time obsessing over releases. Some people who just want the image may not do that. Essentially, I feel that it shouls just be open to everyone. Flippers will get some prints. But, at least you know that you had a fair shot. Here, not everyone can say they had a fair shot. Also, if I really like or need the image I can buy it if it is important enough to me to pay the inflated amount. Obviously I would prefer not to but I am sure almost everyone here has paid through the teeth for something that was important to them at some point.
Just my opinion.
It's not fair because as soon as you start creating secret lists, however fair you think your list is, you are going to miss people off. Did they, for example, get hold of a list of people who had bought Ian Francis's prints from Red Propeller or from Collectors Prints. I somehow doubt it. The charitable view would be that BLK/MKT were trying to help out the "genuine fans" whatever that means. The uncharitable view would be that they were creating a mystique about this release - making it seem more unobtainable makes people desire it more. Whatever their motives may be it has the fact of creating an elite - a list of people in the know. Percentage wise I am sure that just as many prints will be flipped from this release as for the last when it was an open sale. If they wanted it to be open why didn't they have a mailist list button on their site so that people who were interested in Ian Francis could sign up to a mailing list there? The only fair and democratic way of releasing prints is to just put them up on your site for the whole world to buy. Everyone has an equal chance of success or failure. People can b**ch about missing it but at least they had a chance.
I think that Pez is right on. It shouldnt be up to the gallery to define who is deserving and who is not deserving. No one should be forced to justify that they are a real fan by sending x amount of emails or making y amount of posts. I had never seen Francis until this thread. I think it is awesome and hope that I can have a chance at the next release. Am I less deserving because I havent bought something in the pase? Also, the idea that creating these lists would prevent flipping just doesnt make sense. If anything, I could see it having the oppisite effect. Once a flipper buys one he is entitled to be privy to the "secret list" and then has the opportunity at getting them the next time. The people who flip prints will flip no matter what ... they will get on the lists, will have bought before, and will spend tons of time obsessing over releases. Some people who just want the image may not do that. Essentially, I feel that it shouls just be open to everyone. Flippers will get some prints. But, at least you know that you had a fair shot. Here, not everyone can say they had a fair shot. Also, if I really like or need the image I can buy it if it is important enough to me to pay the inflated amount. Obviously I would prefer not to but I am sure almost everyone here has paid through the teeth for something that was important to them at some point. Just my opinion. It's not fair because as soon as you start creating secret lists, however fair you think your list is, you are going to miss people off. Did they, for example, get hold of a list of people who had bought Ian Francis's prints from Red Propeller or from Collectors Prints. I somehow doubt it. The charitable view would be that BLK/MKT were trying to help out the "genuine fans" whatever that means. The uncharitable view would be that they were creating a mystique about this release - making it seem more unobtainable makes people desire it more. Whatever their motives may be it has the fact of creating an elite - a list of people in the know. Percentage wise I am sure that just as many prints will be flipped from this release as for the last when it was an open sale. If they wanted it to be open why didn't they have a mailist list button on their site so that people who were interested in Ian Francis could sign up to a mailing list there? The only fair and democratic way of releasing prints is to just put them up on your site for the whole world to buy. Everyone has an equal chance of success or failure. People can b**ch about missing it but at least they had a chance.
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fedjarojnik
New Member
Posts โข 31
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August 2007
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4 NEW IAN FRANCIS PRINTS ON BLK MARKET NOW, by fedjarojnik on Nov 1, 2007 20:48:43 GMT 1, look i am not saying you are less deserving, and you are just as entitled to like his work as anybody else and to have it on your wall, but i think, with something so desirable, its nice that some effort to get his work is/has been rewarded! thats all (if i was offline that evening i would have also missed out, but would be less pissed off knowing that at least they made the effort to let me know)
put yourself in the position of the gallery or the artist or even yourself - at the end of the day who would you rather sell something (that means a lot to you) to? i think for the gallery the answer is clear, for the artist, more diff. to answer. personally if i made only 50 of something that people wanted, i would contact those who had expressed a previous interest first, as a simple courtesy!
but i guess by your logic then rolling stones/maddona, should also not have a presale for the fan club to get the best seats in the house...
look i am not saying you are less deserving, and you are just as entitled to like his work as anybody else and to have it on your wall, but i think, with something so desirable, its nice that some effort to get his work is/has been rewarded! thats all (if i was offline that evening i would have also missed out, but would be less pissed off knowing that at least they made the effort to let me know)
put yourself in the position of the gallery or the artist or even yourself - at the end of the day who would you rather sell something (that means a lot to you) to? i think for the gallery the answer is clear, for the artist, more diff. to answer. personally if i made only 50 of something that people wanted, i would contact those who had expressed a previous interest first, as a simple courtesy!
but i guess by your logic then rolling stones/maddona, should also not have a presale for the fan club to get the best seats in the house...
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stereoface
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Posts โข 122
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July 2007
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4 NEW IAN FRANCIS PRINTS ON BLK MARKET NOW, by stereoface on Nov 1, 2007 20:54:27 GMT 1, look i am not saying you are less deserving, and you are just as entitled to like his work as anybody else and to have it on your wall, but i think, with something so desirable, its nice that some effort to get his work is/has been rewarded! thats all (if i was offline that evening i would have also missed out, but would be less pissed off knowing that at least they made the effort to let me know) at the end of the day who would you rather sell something that means a lot to you to? i guess by that logic then rolling stones/maddona, should also not have a presale for the fan club to get the best seats in the house...
Hey, I didnt mean that you personally were saying that I am less deserving and am sorry if it came off that way. I just mean it rhetorically. Also, I think that the fan club reference is not analagous because anyone can join a fan club. Whereas here, Blk Market took it upon themselves to determine who would be given the notice.
I do, however, agree that it is nice to see that galleries are trying different methods of releasing prints. I just tend to think that although their intentions were good, it is probably not the best thing in practice.
look i am not saying you are less deserving, and you are just as entitled to like his work as anybody else and to have it on your wall, but i think, with something so desirable, its nice that some effort to get his work is/has been rewarded! thats all (if i was offline that evening i would have also missed out, but would be less pissed off knowing that at least they made the effort to let me know) at the end of the day who would you rather sell something that means a lot to you to? i guess by that logic then rolling stones/maddona, should also not have a presale for the fan club to get the best seats in the house... Hey, I didnt mean that you personally were saying that I am less deserving and am sorry if it came off that way. I just mean it rhetorically. Also, I think that the fan club reference is not analagous because anyone can join a fan club. Whereas here, Blk Market took it upon themselves to determine who would be given the notice. I do, however, agree that it is nice to see that galleries are trying different methods of releasing prints. I just tend to think that although their intentions were good, it is probably not the best thing in practice.
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morrissey1
New Member
Posts โข 924
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October 2007
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4 NEW IAN FRANCIS PRINTS ON BLK MARKET NOW, by morrissey1 on Nov 1, 2007 20:54:28 GMT 1, IMO, this kind of situation is always going to end in the people who were on "the list" being happy and enthusiastic about the system, and those who were not on the list being frustrated and slightly offended.....but I would be willing to bet a set of hen's teeth that this system of selling to people who asked for original works by IF will result in fewer prints ending up on ebay..there's a real good chance that these 200 prints ended up in the hands of a lot IF hands, and not just ebay pirates.....again, IMO
IMO, this kind of situation is always going to end in the people who were on "the list" being happy and enthusiastic about the system, and those who were not on the list being frustrated and slightly offended.....but I would be willing to bet a set of hen's teeth that this system of selling to people who asked for original works by IF will result in fewer prints ending up on ebay..there's a real good chance that these 200 prints ended up in the hands of a lot IF hands, and not just ebay pirates.....again, IMO
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sindekat
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Posts โข 72
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October 2006
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4 NEW IAN FRANCIS PRINTS ON BLK MARKET NOW, by sindekat on Nov 1, 2007 21:25:23 GMT 1, PM ME A LINK plz. would love to get at least one of these if its possible
PM ME A LINK plz. would love to get at least one of these if its possible
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rkitek
New Member
Posts โข 867
Likes โข 143
December 2006
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4 NEW IAN FRANCIS PRINTS ON BLK MARKET NOW, by rkitek on Nov 1, 2007 21:26:34 GMT 1, Sorry mate, they've all sold out.
Sorry mate, they've all sold out.
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morrissey1
New Member
Posts โข 924
Likes โข 1
October 2007
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4 NEW IAN FRANCIS PRINTS ON BLK MARKET NOW, by morrissey1 on Nov 1, 2007 21:27:02 GMT 1, PM ME A LINK plz. would love to get at least one of these if its possible
they're all sold out, and were only available to purchase by people who received the email......
PM ME A LINK plz. would love to get at least one of these if its possible they're all sold out, and were only available to purchase by people who received the email......
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4 NEW IAN FRANCIS PRINTS ON BLK MARKET NOW, by dave313perry on Nov 1, 2007 21:32:45 GMT 1, If you have an E-mail from them for the release give them a call
There is some left
If you have an E-mail from them for the release give them a call There is some left
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4 NEW IAN FRANCIS PRINTS ON BLK MARKET NOW, by dave313perry on Nov 1, 2007 23:09:02 GMT 1, Bump - anyone on the list who totally missed the release get in touch with BMG - they will have some left
Bump - anyone on the list who totally missed the release get in touch with BMG - they will have some left
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Richard
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,367
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Member is Online
September 2007
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4 NEW IAN FRANCIS PRINTS ON BLK MARKET NOW, by Richard on Nov 1, 2007 23:09:56 GMT 1, I've emailed them but not got a reply
I've emailed them but not got a reply
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ABC
Artist
Junior Member
Posts โข 5,533
Likes โข 1,923
August 2006
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4 NEW IAN FRANCIS PRINTS ON BLK MARKET NOW, by ABC on Nov 2, 2007 0:37:50 GMT 1, Having spent a few times revisiting these print images, I wished to god I had bought them the other night now, rather than doing the sensible thing and saving the childrens Christmas budget, why do they need new bikes anyway eh? I never got one a kid.
Having spent a few times revisiting these print images, I wished to god I had bought them the other night now, rather than doing the sensible thing and saving the childrens Christmas budget, why do they need new bikes anyway eh? I never got one a kid.
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Cocteau 101
Junior Member
Posts โข 3,503
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January 2007
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4 NEW IAN FRANCIS PRINTS ON BLK MARKET NOW, by Cocteau 101 on Nov 2, 2007 0:53:08 GMT 1, Having spent a few times revisiting these print images, I wished to god I had bought them the other night now, rather than doing the sensible thing and saving the childrens Christmas budget, why do they need new bikes anyway eh? I never got one a kid.
Make them a go kart mate, they will have more fun and you will see the product of your own work and I guarantee they'll love the fact that you made it.
Having spent a few times revisiting these print images, I wished to god I had bought them the other night now, rather than doing the sensible thing and saving the childrens Christmas budget, why do they need new bikes anyway eh? I never got one a kid. Make them a go kart mate, they will have more fun and you will see the product of your own work and I guarantee they'll love the fact that you made it.
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Dellboyy
Artist
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,729
Likes โข 270
October 2006
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4 NEW IAN FRANCIS PRINTS ON BLK MARKET NOW, by Dellboyy on Nov 2, 2007 1:03:38 GMT 1, Or you could always make them a treehouse with the packaging you'll get with the Francis prints! Trust me, you'll have enough of it!
Or you could always make them a treehouse with the packaging you'll get with the Francis prints! Trust me, you'll have enough of it!
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snapwolfe
New Member
Posts โข 175
Likes โข 69
July 2007
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4 NEW IAN FRANCIS PRINTS ON BLK MARKET NOW, by snapwolfe on Nov 2, 2007 1:50:13 GMT 1, I had been on the list from expressing interest in the originals (which i could not afford). i missed the release email and when i finally got around to the site, all was long sold out (according to the evil computer). i emailed the fine people at blk/mrkt yesterday morning and received a suprising call last night saying that there were still prints available. got the two that i wanted, but got the feeling that there were more to be had. worth giving a call now..... just to check. good luck to you.
I had been on the list from expressing interest in the originals (which i could not afford). i missed the release email and when i finally got around to the site, all was long sold out (according to the evil computer). i emailed the fine people at blk/mrkt yesterday morning and received a suprising call last night saying that there were still prints available. got the two that i wanted, but got the feeling that there were more to be had. worth giving a call now..... just to check. good luck to you.
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njr911
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,377
Likes โข 414
April 2007
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4 NEW IAN FRANCIS PRINTS ON BLK MARKET NOW, by njr911 on Nov 2, 2007 11:40:02 GMT 1, I managed to get the one I wanted yesterday. I think they have been refunding people who weren't on the list.
It's been an expensive week!
I managed to get the one I wanted yesterday. I think they have been refunding people who weren't on the list.
It's been an expensive week!
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4 NEW IAN FRANCIS PRINTS ON BLK MARKET NOW, by absyrd on Nov 2, 2007 11:42:27 GMT 1, I understand that they had originally planned on selling a percentage of the edition to the public, but because people on forums like these shared their private passwords it became a nightmare. In other words, I think they gave a few away to frantic callers and emailers.
I understand that they had originally planned on selling a percentage of the edition to the public, but because people on forums like these shared their private passwords it became a nightmare. In other words, I think they gave a few away to frantic callers and emailers.
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njr911
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,377
Likes โข 414
April 2007
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4 NEW IAN FRANCIS PRINTS ON BLK MARKET NOW, by njr911 on Nov 2, 2007 12:49:46 GMT 1, Mmm Aye Ueto - I made the correct choice of print !!
Mmm Aye Ueto - I made the correct choice of print !!
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Gentle Mental
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,826
Likes โข 863
May 2007
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4 NEW IAN FRANCIS PRINTS ON BLK MARKET NOW, by Gentle Mental on Nov 2, 2007 13:21:56 GMT 1, You should see maria's dvd!!!
You should see maria's dvd!!!
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reatecvol4
New Member
Posts โข 103
Likes โข 8
May 2007
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4 NEW IAN FRANCIS PRINTS ON BLK MARKET NOW, by reatecvol4 on Nov 2, 2007 13:32:38 GMT 1, Mmm Aye Ueto - I made the correct choice of print !!
This is Yoko Kumada.
Mmm Aye Ueto - I made the correct choice of print !! This is Yoko Kumada.
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njr911
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,377
Likes โข 414
April 2007
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4 NEW IAN FRANCIS PRINTS ON BLK MARKET NOW, by njr911 on Nov 2, 2007 13:53:04 GMT 1, OK what about this girl ? - This could turn into and afternoon filling game
OK what about this girl ? - This could turn into and afternoon filling game
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4 NEW IAN FRANCIS PRINTS ON BLK MARKET NOW, by dave313perry on Nov 2, 2007 13:56:24 GMT 1, OK what about this girl ? - This could turn into and afternoon filling game
Very nice... How much???
OK what about this girl ? - This could turn into and afternoon filling game Very nice... How much???
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njr911
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,377
Likes โข 414
April 2007
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4 NEW IAN FRANCIS PRINTS ON BLK MARKET NOW, by njr911 on Nov 2, 2007 13:58:32 GMT 1, about a 32B I'd say
about a 32B I'd say
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4 NEW IAN FRANCIS PRINTS ON BLK MARKET NOW, by dave313perry on Nov 2, 2007 14:02:42 GMT 1, about a 32B I'd say
More than a hand-fulls a waste ;D
about a 32B I'd say More than a hand-fulls a waste ;D
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