timba you should check out the history of israel and the zionist terrorists who blew up the british embassy in rome ! google it mate .....none of us support what hamas do or what other terrorists do, but we understand WHY sometimes they do .......why because of oppression ! the british are no angels but they negoitated with the IRA at least otherwise we would still be getting bombed ! the palestinian kids use stones and burning tires the israeli troops respond with live bullet rounds , then people get really angry thats when you pick up a gun ! how about the 20,000 killed by phalange militia in lebanon in the 80s . the israeli leader ariel sharom controlled this operation and armed the militia . women and kids never saw their men again who were rounded up by israeli troops and then passed to the militia men for mass killing . read some robert fisk mate .... a man who has lived in this region 30 years !
4 missiles land in israel and kill one and they respond with killing 600 people ? ps if you dont like the palestinian cause i suggest not buying any POW prints since i think santas ghetto was more than just a store !

too many narrow minded people on this forum , it is quite disturbing in fact ! israel began their occupation using terrorist techniques in 1947 and now they have the cheek to call the palestinians terrorists !
the USA supported IRA campaigns against the british with fund raising , calling them freedom fighters yet we never bombed the USA did we ? no we used diplomacy !
USA supports israel and now everyone is a terrorist who disagrees with them . as george bush said " you are either with us or against us " nobody has ever questioned the motives of 9/11 and london bombers yet we had no suicide bombers in london until invasion of iraq !
zionists see themselves as gods chosen ones , therfor everyone else is equal to nothing to them. it is them who are set out to destroy ...........

video.google.com/videosearch?q=occupation%20101&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&oe=utf8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wv#

Not great quality, but the content more than makes up for it

christians and muslims have all been pushed out to house fanatical zionist and ultra orthodox jews who believe they are gods chosen children and this is their chosen land . there is no god ! they are free to shoot their neighbours without prosecution .............

hahaha that's absolute rubbish...
About 80 years ago Palestinian Christians and Muslims and Jews lived happily together in Palestine until the Zionist movement came along.... Zionist wanted all the land to be Jewish and started getting rid of the Muslims and Christians. It wasn't ganged up on as you say. Its more like the Palestinian Christians and Muslims didn't know what hit them.

Right Funyoung...

1) I didn't make any assumptions about what you have, or have not read. I asked you a question - "Did you read..."

2) See hellomum's second post in this thread for examples of the facts and reasonable discussion I was talking about [author=hellomum board=general thread=31207 post=454506 time=1231534477]

3) I said: "If you did, you would understand exactly what 'The blood of many drips from every word you write' means."

You said: Sorry didn't find that sentence in the aforementioned link.

Read what I wrote again - I did not say that sentence was to be found in the link. I said if you read the article you would understand what the sentence meant. I then went on to explain what he was essentially getting at, so you would hopefully understand without even having to read the link...

4) I will gladly take apart Timba's drivel for you:

The first thing Timba said was "i dont see people marching in favour and backing Al Qaeda in this country so why are people dumb enough to support Hamas?"

No-one has said they support Hamas in this thread and the march on Saturday was not in support of Hamas either. The comments in this thread and the march are both a protest against Israel's totally disproportionate use of force in Gaza, particularly the use of modern military weaponry (1000lb bombs, White Phosporous, tank and artillery shells) in a built up, densely populated civilian area, the killing of vast numbers of civilians and the death of hundreds of innocent children. Being against this and supporting Hamas are clearly NOT the same thing.

Timba: "Hamas are a recognised terrorist organisation who are getting what was coming to them."

One persons terrorist is another person's freedom fighter. Whether you identify someone as a terrorist or not is based purely on whether you are for their cause or against it. Hamas may be designated a terrorist organisation by allies of Israel but it should be remembered that they are also the DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED representatives of the Palestinian people - in fact they are the ONLY democratically elected Arab leaders - this is often conveniently forgotten. As democraticaly elected leaders, don't they have the right to an army and weapons like every other nation? If the US supplied Hamas with F16s, Apache Gunships and smart bombs, I am sure they would happily use them rather than the Grads and Katyushas that they have. Terrorism is the weapon of the weak. When you are weak and oppressed, you fight however you can, using whatever you've got. It should also be noted that the state of Israel was founded by people that the british classed as "terrorists" at the time.

Timba: How long was Israel to sit back and let them send rockets and suicide bombers over simply for their jewish relegion?

Simply for their jewish religion??? FFS! - What about the fact that Israel has occupied their land and continues to expand into and take ever more of it? What about the bulldozing of thousands of Palestinian homes? What about the thousands of Palestinian children killed by Israel? What about the wall built round their land turning it into the world's biggest prison camp? What about the 3 year blockade that Israel has imposed on Gaza preventing even basic supplies needed to live from entering - fuel, food, medicine etc. What about the breaking of the ceasfire by Isreal on 4th November when they launched a raid into Gaza killing 6 Hamas members? - That's why they are fighting - it has little/nothing to do with the fact that the Israelis are jewish, if they happened to be Hindus, we would be seeing exactly the same thing .

Timba: they didnt want to negotiate. they still dont.

Hamas have been prepared to negotiate a permanent ceasefire with Israel based on pre 1967 borders for at least the last 20 years. It is Israel that refuses to negotiate because it doesn't want to make such concessions. In fact Israel fefuses to talk to Hamas at all. You really need to understand the Zionist concept of "Greater Israel" to understand why this is. Israel, as the stronger party, knows that the longer it holds off making an agreement (ideally never) the bigger the final state of Israel will be and the smaller the state of Palestine will be (ideally completely controlled in every way by Israel).

Timba" "they want Israel off the map. They want to exterminate the jews."

What they want is their land back. If I walked into your home and took over three quarters of it, would you want to negotiate with me or would you want to completely kick me out? You have to understand that by accepting Israel at all they are admitting defeat. Nevertheless, as stated before they have been willing to compromise and make peace based on 1967 borders for at least the last 20 years.

Timba: come on people stop being brainwashed by their expert propaganda.

Pot: Kettle : Black.

I'm going to quote Avi Schlaim here as he says it better than I could do...

"Israel's propaganda machine persistently purveyed the notion that the Palestinians are terrorists, that they reject coexistence with the Jewish state, that their nationalism is little more than antisemitism, that Hamas is just a bunch of religious fanatics and that Islam is incompatible with democracy. But the simple truth is that the Palestinian people are a normal people with normal aspirations. They are no better but they are no worse than any other national group. What they aspire to, above all, is a piece of land to call their own on which to live in freedom and dignity.

Timba: "i dont agree with innocent civilian deaths"

The only non-drivel he wrote...but this was qualified by:

Timba: however Hamas are cowards...

I'm wouldn't describe someone who is willing to take on a far stronger enemy a coward. Whether you agree with their their ideology or not, you have to admit it takes guts to take on the world's 4th most powerful army, equipped with tanks, F16's and Apache's with nothing but an AK47 and maybe a few grenade's. Knowing you will probably be blown apart but still standing up and fighting for your cause is far from cowardly.

Timba:...who hide ammunition dumps in schools, hospitals and houses etc and use children as human shields.

This is what the Israeli military says to justify their attacks on schools, hospitals and houses and their killing of Palestinian children - but can timba actually provide any (non Israeli sourced) evidence for this at all?. On the contrary, the using as Palestinian families as human shields by Israel is well and independently documented. A few days ago the Israeli military was accused by Amnesty International of forcing Palestinian families to remain in the houses they occupied and used as bases/sniper positions to prevent Hamas attacking them.

www.maannews.net/en/index.php?opr=ShowDetails&ID=34733


There - I hope you now accept that I have addressed what Timba said in detail and have clearly stated the reasons why I accused his post as being nothing but drivel.

5) You quoted me as saying "have you read this - obviously not - if you had you might have found this" - I never said that at all. Read what I wrote again. You are putting words in my mouth. If you are going to quote me, please do me the honour of quoting me exactly and not changing/spinning my words to suit your argument.

6) I accept that some of what hellomum wrote could be interpreted as insulting to Timba. But I also believe that hellomum's words were truthful - and the truth can hurt.

Have a nice day yourself.

Can we please try and keep this thread free of personal insults? - it really devalues it. thanks

No-one wants to see the C word dill - would you mind deleting that post please?

hahah but its you that said the c word!

If you research war crimes, ethnic cleansing, theft and occupation, through google and other means, Israel will head the list by a mile.
They are not allowing journalists to go into Gaza so the world does not see their crimes. Unfortunaltely for them it did not work and the international community is more aware than ever of their crimes against the palestinian civilians.

your words were foolish , you think its ok to blow away innocents en masse ? using armour piercing bullets on non military targets . israel (now backed by the USA as it suits them to have an ally there) were surrounded by arab neighbours and were attacked after israel took palestinian lands . they were allocated 56% yet they decided they want 100% ............
this was in breach of UN treaties yet have been vetoed by the USA . so why you think the arabs hate them both so much ?
the palestinians were not responsible for the second world war yet they are paying the price !


hahah but its you that said the c word! [/quote]

yes but only after being sworn at and called a fool!

an eye for an eye?
ha ha [/quote]