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Banksy's artworks fail to shift , by alsbabar on Oct 1, 2008 9:56:27 GMT 1, what a load of bollocks to blame it on the economy.....only a week before Damien Hirst proved the economy in the art market is still strong. Buyers will always buy - just like the rich will always get richer. I will repeat, it was a s**t auction, one that used Banksy and Damien Hirst as their big ticket crowd pullers - and both artists stuck it to them based on unauthentic (Banksy) and stolen (Hirst from the Colony Club) pieces (they had no Warhols or Basquiats or Lichtensteins,which are auctionees favourites). So with Banksy making the statement he did and L&T withdrawing the Hirst pieces - they pretty much were left with their d**k in their hands, no key pieces from their 2 trump cards. L&T are a bunch of f**king amateurs, just iike vermin, bankrobber, punk daisy, artificial, ben hanley, and whoever is that little entourage that tried to pull the wool over peoples eyes
Time to leave the vermin debate alone for the time being.
what a load of bollocks to blame it on the economy.....only a week before Damien Hirst proved the economy in the art market is still strong. Buyers will always buy - just like the rich will always get richer. I will repeat, it was a s**t auction, one that used Banksy and Damien Hirst as their big ticket crowd pullers - and both artists stuck it to them based on unauthentic (Banksy) and stolen (Hirst from the Colony Club) pieces (they had no Warhols or Basquiats or Lichtensteins,which are auctionees favourites). So with Banksy making the statement he did and L&T withdrawing the Hirst pieces - they pretty much were left with their d**k in their hands, no key pieces from their 2 trump cards. L&T are a bunch of f**king amateurs, just iike vermin, bankrobber, punk daisy, artificial, ben hanley, and whoever is that little entourage that tried to pull the wool over peoples eyes
Time to leave the vermin debate alone for the time being.
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seidbereit
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Banksy's artworks fail to shift , by seidbereit on Oct 1, 2008 10:15:29 GMT 1, Hmmm.... so this topic is still running I see.... oh well. 
Hmmm.... so this topic is still running I see.... oh well. |
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savilerogue
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Banksy's artworks fail to shift , by savilerogue on Oct 1, 2008 14:27:08 GMT 1, So are you saying I'm acting like someone who asked someone for proof about something and demanded to see links to articles to support their information ...and then when handed the proof and the links โ they freak out and say I don't believe that rubbish and claim victory!? 
No, not really. Who freaked out? Not me, I just pointed out that an unverifiable quote attributed to "A member of Banksy's camp" that was posted on a minor art blog is not sufficient evidence to back up your assertion that Banksy was labelling people who 'liberate' street pieces as criminals. You plank. BTW, have you taken pffffffffft's bet yet?
Thought not, you need to grow a pair before acting the big man.
So are you saying I'm acting like someone who asked someone for proof about something and demanded to see links to articles to support their information ...and then when handed the proof and the links โ they freak out and say I don't believe that rubbish and claim victory!? No, not really. Who freaked out? Not me, I just pointed out that an unverifiable quote attributed to "A member of Banksy's camp" that was posted on a minor art blog is not sufficient evidence to back up your assertion that Banksy was labelling people who 'liberate' street pieces as criminals. You plank. BTW, have you taken pffffffffft's bet yet? Thought not, you need to grow a pair before acting the big man. |
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savilerogue
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Banksy's artworks fail to shift , by savilerogue on Oct 1, 2008 14:31:09 GMT 1, I'll accept your bet right after saville rogue issues me an apology.
OK, here you go - I wholeheartedly apologize for quite correctly pointing out that your 'argument' was flawed, and bruising your colossal ego.
Now put up or shut up you moron.
I'll accept your bet right after saville rogue issues me an apology. OK, here you go - I wholeheartedly apologize for quite correctly pointing out that your 'argument' was flawed, and bruising your colossal ego. Now put up or shut up you moron. |
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pfffffffffft
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Banksy's artworks fail to shift , by pfffffffffft on Oct 1, 2008 14:43:46 GMT 1, Snausages please paypal Savile half directly to him...
Snausages please paypal Savile half directly to him...
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Banksy's artworks fail to shift , by burroughsart on Oct 1, 2008 14:57:11 GMT 1, Without prejudice: With reference to 'Fungle Junk' it should be known that;
Application for a COA for the works known as Silent Majorite and Fungle Junk was made on behalf of the owners , (who are Nathen Wellard and Emma Neale ), by contacting PC.
Eventually , after many weeks of waiting, a COA was refused by PC over the telephone, although PC aknowledged that these works were created by Banksy.
Nothing was committed to paper or email by PC concerning our application.
The reason given over the telephone for the refusal of a COA being that Banksy considered the trailer to be Salvage and that these works were not โArtโ .
We can only comment that;
Since the trailer does not belong to either PC or Banksy their opinions to its value , condition or vintage are not the issue only the authentification of the various work by Banksy ( or not ) that it carries .
Is Banksy saying that โoldโ or aged works of art are worthless?
What would he say about Stonehenge I wonder?
Perhaps PC should redefine themselves to include situations that fall outside this grey area of Street art under discussion where they seemed to have bundled โFungle Junkโ.
Also, perhaps jpegs of known and serial fakes or otherwise should be displayed on their website as a warning and guide for all genuine collectors and admirers of his work.
Without prejudice: With reference to 'Fungle Junk' it should be known that;
Application for a COA for the works known as Silent Majorite and Fungle Junk was made on behalf of the owners , (who are Nathen Wellard and Emma Neale ), by contacting PC.
Eventually , after many weeks of waiting, a COA was refused by PC over the telephone, although PC aknowledged that these works were created by Banksy.
Nothing was committed to paper or email by PC concerning our application.
The reason given over the telephone for the refusal of a COA being that Banksy considered the trailer to be Salvage and that these works were not โArtโ .
We can only comment that;
Since the trailer does not belong to either PC or Banksy their opinions to its value , condition or vintage are not the issue only the authentification of the various work by Banksy ( or not ) that it carries .
Is Banksy saying that โoldโ or aged works of art are worthless?
What would he say about Stonehenge I wonder?
Perhaps PC should redefine themselves to include situations that fall outside this grey area of Street art under discussion where they seemed to have bundled โFungle Junkโ.
Also, perhaps jpegs of known and serial fakes or otherwise should be displayed on their website as a warning and guide for all genuine collectors and admirers of his work.
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aginghippie
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Banksy's artworks fail to shift , by aginghippie on Oct 1, 2008 19:15:45 GMT 1, I don't know why you put that as I can't see what legal rights you are trying to reserve but anyway...
The bottom line is that you bought a work from someone without verifying the the artist had or would authenticate it, this is insane. Now it turns out you cannot sell it for what you had hoped (which is not the same as it being valueless) and you are blaming the artist because you ignored the rules?
I don't know why you put that as I can't see what legal rights you are trying to reserve but anyway... The bottom line is that you bought a work from someone without verifying the the artist had or would authenticate it, this is insane. Now it turns out you cannot sell it for what you had hoped (which is not the same as it being valueless) and you are blaming the artist because you ignored the rules? |
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dmandpenfold
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December 2006
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Banksy's artworks fail to shift , by dmandpenfold on Oct 1, 2008 20:45:35 GMT 1, ...Is Banksy saying that โoldโ or aged works of art are worthless? What would he say about Stonehenge I wonder?....
like most of us he probably doesn't think a bunch of neoliths built stonehenge as an installation.
...Is Banksy saying that โoldโ or aged works of art are worthless? What would he say about Stonehenge I wonder?.... like most of us he probably doesn't think a bunch of neoliths built stonehenge as an installation. |
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Banksy's artworks fail to shift , by snausages on Oct 1, 2008 21:10:24 GMT 1, So are you saying I'm acting like someone who asked someone for proof about something and demanded to see links to articles to support their information ...and then when handed the proof and the links โ they freak out and say I don't believe that rubbish and claim victory!? No, not really. Who freaked out? Not me, I just pointed out that an unverifiable quote attributed to "A member of Banksy's camp" that was posted on a minor art blog is not sufficient evidence to back up your assertion that Banksy was labelling people who 'liberate' street pieces as criminals. You plank. BTW, have you taken pffffffffft's bet yet? Thought not, you need to grow a pair before acting the big man.
No dude, I guess not, you only asked me for a link for proof to what I said, then you went off clamoring that a statement on one of NY's most respected street art blogs whose contributors include Shepard Fairey, Ron English, Jose Parla was an "amateurish" website that can't be trusted. Bullshit. Then you "freaked out" and called me numerous childish names. I then gave you links to other 'more respectable' sites that also had this same statement. Then I got no responses.
And by the way, how often does Banksy directly give statements, occasionally sure he leaks them out. But 9 times out of 10 he has people make statements for him. Someone from Banksy's camp saying that taking street art is tantamount to theft IS calling those people criminals. And Banksy had no problem not retracting that issue after it was posted on dozens of websites.
So please please please stop trying to save face and just give up with your petty bullsh*t you wanker.
So are you saying I'm acting like someone who asked someone for proof about something and demanded to see links to articles to support their information ...and then when handed the proof and the links โ they freak out and say I don't believe that rubbish and claim victory!? No, not really. Who freaked out? Not me, I just pointed out that an unverifiable quote attributed to "A member of Banksy's camp" that was posted on a minor art blog is not sufficient evidence to back up your assertion that Banksy was labelling people who 'liberate' street pieces as criminals. You plank. BTW, have you taken pffffffffft's bet yet? Thought not, you need to grow a pair before acting the big man. No dude, I guess not, you only asked me for a link for proof to what I said, then you went off clamoring that a statement on one of NY's most respected street art blogs whose contributors include Shepard Fairey, Ron English, Jose Parla was an "amateurish" website that can't be trusted. Bullshit. Then you "freaked out" and called me numerous childish names. I then gave you links to other 'more respectable' sites that also had this same statement. Then I got no responses. And by the way, how often does Banksy directly give statements, occasionally sure he leaks them out. But 9 times out of 10 he has people make statements for him. Someone from Banksy's camp saying that taking street art is tantamount to theft IS calling those people criminals. And Banksy had no problem not retracting that issue after it was posted on dozens of websites. So please please please stop trying to save face and just give up with your petty bullsh*t you wanker. |
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savilerogue
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Banksy's artworks fail to shift , by savilerogue on Oct 1, 2008 21:26:03 GMT 1, Let's cut to the chase, seeing as you're the typical kind of interminable bore who won't shut up until he's had the last word - can I take this as an acceptance of pfffffffffft's bet?
As for your other points:
No dude, I guess not, you only asked me for a link for proof to what I said, then you went off clamoring that a statement on one of NY's most respected street art blogs whose contributors include Shepard Fairey, Ron English, Jose Parla was an "amateurish" website that can't be trusted. Bulls**t.
You've kind of made my point there. What you posted was not 'proof' at all. It may be 'one of NY's most respected street art blogs' but I've never heard of it and I stand by my opinion that it is an amateurish looking website, in terms of its design and the quality of the content.
Then you "freaked out" and called me numerous childish names. I then gave you links to other 'more respectable' sites that also had this same statement. Then I got no responses.
I didn't freak out, my friend, I am perfectly calm. On the note of the home truths though, I'm clearly not alone in thinking that you're something of a ballbag.
And by the way, how often does Banksy directly give statements, occasionally sure he leaks them out. But 9 times out of 10 he has people make statements for him.
Care to back up your 9/10 assertion with evidence? You're rather fond of presenting opinion as fact, aren't you?
Someone from Banksy's camp saying that taking street art is tantamount to theft IS calling those people criminals. And Banksy had no problem not retracting that issue after it was posted on dozens of websites.
I think he's got better things to do than scour the internet for obscure art websites to repudiate every chinese whisper presented as insider information, don't you? Oh, and "Results 1 - 4 of 4":
www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&channel=s&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=fyn&q=%22and+taking+them+is+tantamount+to+theft%22&btnG=Search&meta=
So please please please stop trying to save face and just give up with your petty bullsh*t you wanker.
I'm not 'saving face' at all. Merely enjoying winding you up. Now take the bet, you wanker.
Let's cut to the chase, seeing as you're the typical kind of interminable bore who won't shut up until he's had the last word - can I take this as an acceptance of pfffffffffft's bet? As for your other points: No dude, I guess not, you only asked me for a link for proof to what I said, then you went off clamoring that a statement on one of NY's most respected street art blogs whose contributors include Shepard Fairey, Ron English, Jose Parla was an "amateurish" website that can't be trusted. Bulls**t. You've kind of made my point there. What you posted was not 'proof' at all. It may be 'one of NY's most respected street art blogs' but I've never heard of it and I stand by my opinion that it is an amateurish looking website, in terms of its design and the quality of the content. Then you "freaked out" and called me numerous childish names. I then gave you links to other 'more respectable' sites that also had this same statement. Then I got no responses. I didn't freak out, my friend, I am perfectly calm. On the note of the home truths though, I'm clearly not alone in thinking that you're something of a ballbag. And by the way, how often does Banksy directly give statements, occasionally sure he leaks them out. But 9 times out of 10 he has people make statements for him. Care to back up your 9/10 assertion with evidence? You're rather fond of presenting opinion as fact, aren't you? Someone from Banksy's camp saying that taking street art is tantamount to theft IS calling those people criminals. And Banksy had no problem not retracting that issue after it was posted on dozens of websites. I think he's got better things to do than scour the internet for obscure art websites to repudiate every chinese whisper presented as insider information, don't you? Oh, and "Results 1 - 4 of 4": www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&channel=s&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=fyn&q=%22and+taking+them+is+tantamount+to+theft%22&btnG=Search&meta=So please please please stop trying to save face and just give up with your petty bullsh*t you wanker. I'm not 'saving face' at all. Merely enjoying winding you up. Now take the bet, you wanker. |
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Banksy's artworks fail to shift , by snausages on Oct 1, 2008 21:30:38 GMT 1, Let's cut to the chase? So we can gloss over how blatantly biased and ridiculous your retort was? And so we forget about how you freaked out and called me names when I provided what you asked for when you thought I couldn't? Yeah sure, I forgive you and accept your apology. Let's move on.
And sure I'll take a bet with pfft, but the terms must be modified as they're rather flawed.
Let's cut to the chase? So we can gloss over how blatantly biased and ridiculous your retort was? And so we forget about how you freaked out and called me names when I provided what you asked for when you thought I couldn't? Yeah sure, I forgive you and accept your apology. Let's move on.
And sure I'll take a bet with pfft, but the terms must be modified as they're rather flawed.
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pfffffffffft
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July 2008
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Banksy's artworks fail to shift , by pfffffffffft on Oct 1, 2008 21:34:15 GMT 1, Let's cut to the chase? So we can gloss over how blatantly biased and ridiculous your retort was? And so we forget about how you freaked out and called me names when I provided what you asked for when you thought I couldn't? Yeah sure, I forgive you and accept your apology. Let's move on. And sure I'll take a bet with pfft, but the terms must be modified as they're rather flawed.
I seem to remember a post somewhere that you and Bankrobber seem to post from the same IP which would account for all of this egotistical posturing.
Based on your own assertions about the auction results, the terms of the wager are not flawed. On top of that you said you'd take the bet if Savile apologized, well Savile has.
I assume you going back on your word would be yet another example of you talking out of your ass...
Let's cut to the chase? So we can gloss over how blatantly biased and ridiculous your retort was? And so we forget about how you freaked out and called me names when I provided what you asked for when you thought I couldn't? Yeah sure, I forgive you and accept your apology. Let's move on. And sure I'll take a bet with pfft, but the terms must be modified as they're rather flawed. I seem to remember a post somewhere that you and Bankrobber seem to post from the same IP which would account for all of this egotistical posturing. Based on your own assertions about the auction results, the terms of the wager are not flawed. On top of that you said you'd take the bet if Savile apologized, well Savile has. I assume you going back on your word would be yet another example of you talking out of your ass... |
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savilerogue
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Banksy's artworks fail to shift , by savilerogue on Oct 1, 2008 21:35:08 GMT 1, And sure I'll take a bet with pfft, but the terms must be modified as they're rather flawed.
Bulls**t, you said you'd accept as soon as I apologised, now you're backing out. Chickens**t. I quote:
I'll accept your bet right after saville rogue issues me an apology.
And sure I'll take a bet with pfft, but the terms must be modified as they're rather flawed. Bulls**t, you said you'd accept as soon as I apologised, now you're backing out. Chickens**t. I quote: I'll accept your bet right after saville rogue issues me an apology. |
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Banksy's artworks fail to shift , by snausages on Oct 1, 2008 21:58:22 GMT 1, Ha! Oh my god this is pretty funny guys. You're not wound up Saville huh? That's why you have to go through my post, point after tedious point to try and discredit me? And you're still all over this like a wet suit. You just won't give up. So really? You're not wound up??? Oh my god. And still you're trying to discredit my proof that's posted on dozens of websites. Quite funny.
Ha! Oh my god this is pretty funny guys. You're not wound up Saville huh? That's why you have to go through my post, point after tedious point to try and discredit me? And you're still all over this like a wet suit. You just won't give up. So really? You're not wound up??? Oh my god. And still you're trying to discredit my proof that's posted on dozens of websites. Quite funny.
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savilerogue
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Banksy's artworks fail to shift , by savilerogue on Oct 1, 2008 22:05:58 GMT 1, Ha! Oh my god this is pretty funny guys. You're not wound up Saville huh?
No, not at all. I like seeing you getting your knickers in a twist though.
That's why you have to go through my post, point after tedious point to try and discredit me?
I responded to your post. That's what people do on messageboards, at least it was last time I checked. I thought it might help you comprehend my opinions on the matter, seeing as you rarely (if ever) accept that anyone has a more logical or valid opinion on a topic than yourself. I'm not trying to 'discredit' you either, you're doing a magnificent job of that yourself without any help from me.
And you're still all over this like a wet suit. You just won't give up. So really? You're not wound up??? Oh my god. And still you're trying to discredit my proof that's posted on dozens of websites. Quite funny.
I'm only as 'all over this' are you are old bean, as you keep replying. I'm not 'trying to discredit' anything. I'd take issue with your assertion that it is 'posted on dozens of websites', as I pointed out above, it results in 4 hits on Google. And it's funny that you still refer to it as 'proof' - you'll never make a lawyer will you eh Sherlock?
P.S. taken pfffffffft's bet yet?
Ha! Oh my god this is pretty funny guys. You're not wound up Saville huh? No, not at all. I like seeing you getting your knickers in a twist though. That's why you have to go through my post, point after tedious point to try and discredit me? I responded to your post. That's what people do on messageboards, at least it was last time I checked. I thought it might help you comprehend my opinions on the matter, seeing as you rarely (if ever) accept that anyone has a more logical or valid opinion on a topic than yourself. I'm not trying to 'discredit' you either, you're doing a magnificent job of that yourself without any help from me. And you're still all over this like a wet suit. You just won't give up. So really? You're not wound up??? Oh my god. And still you're trying to discredit my proof that's posted on dozens of websites. Quite funny. I'm only as 'all over this' are you are old bean, as you keep replying. I'm not 'trying to discredit' anything. I'd take issue with your assertion that it is 'posted on dozens of websites', as I pointed out above, it results in 4 hits on Google. And it's funny that you still refer to it as 'proof' - you'll never make a lawyer will you eh Sherlock? P.S. taken pfffffffft's bet yet? |
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Banksy's artworks fail to shift , by snausages on Oct 1, 2008 22:08:18 GMT 1, Haha yup, I'm all in a twist eh? LMFAO
Haha yup, I'm all in a twist eh? LMFAO
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savilerogue
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Banksy's artworks fail to shift , by savilerogue on Oct 1, 2008 22:10:48 GMT 1, Haha yup, I'm all in a twist eh? LMFAO
See, you'll keep replying to this thread forever. Given up on actually debating the points at hand though, haven't you?
Haha yup, I'm all in a twist eh? LMFAO See, you'll keep replying to this thread forever. Given up on actually debating the points at hand though, haven't you? |
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Banksy's artworks fail to shift , by snausages on Oct 1, 2008 22:14:22 GMT 1, F**king hilarious man, as if replying to you is actually a "debate."
F**king hilarious man, as if replying to you is actually a "debate."
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Banksy's artworks fail to shift , by snausages on Oct 1, 2008 22:16:10 GMT 1, And sure, Pfttt I'll take your bet. But the terms must be modified as your conditions are rather flawed. You think I'm just going to accept someones ridiculous terms that are obviously lopsided to you winning?
So here's the deal, the basic terms of your bet is flawed because you contend that 'contemporary' collectors were spooked much more so than Banksy collectors for some reason. Yet you say Banksy print collectors weren't spooked. But what you want to use as a test for your theory are strictly Urban Auctions. Which have prints and originals and no contemporary/modern art.
Obviously this is not all encompassing.
Furthermore strictly looking at the buy in rate of those auctions does nothing to take into account the bid activity and the reserve prices that quite obviously have a huge impact on the buy in rate. Agree?
Nor does it take into account to the higher public awareness, larger clientelle base and prior experience that your auction houses have for hosting urban and contemporary artworks, compared to L&T who has very little experience with such and therefore doesn't have any client base to fall back on.
It's ok, based on your analysis I didn't expect you to be able to think it through so thoroughly.
...but now, my terms, ยฃ1000 bet. We need to compare lots from L&T to recent and future results both at L&T (the control) and elsewhere Bonhams Drewatts wherever and see if there is a notable difference of (beyond 20% to account for L&Ts lack of stature and clinetelle and iconic lots) in A. High Bid - B. The Reserve - C. Whether it sold or not.
I propose we compare a cross sampling of lots by Gerald Laing, Jeff Koons, Nobuyoshi Araki, Damien Hirst and prints by Banksy, .
So pffft. You game? Put up or shut up.
And sure, Pfttt I'll take your bet. But the terms must be modified as your conditions are rather flawed. You think I'm just going to accept someones ridiculous terms that are obviously lopsided to you winning? So here's the deal, the basic terms of your bet is flawed because you contend that 'contemporary' collectors were spooked much more so than Banksy collectors for some reason. Yet you say Banksy print collectors weren't spooked. But what you want to use as a test for your theory are strictly Urban Auctions. Which have prints and originals and no contemporary/modern art. Obviously this is not all encompassing. Furthermore strictly looking at the buy in rate of those auctions does nothing to take into account the bid activity and the reserve prices that quite obviously have a huge impact on the buy in rate. Agree? Nor does it take into account to the higher public awareness, larger clientelle base and prior experience that your auction houses have for hosting urban and contemporary artworks, compared to L&T who has very little experience with such and therefore doesn't have any client base to fall back on. It's ok, based on your analysis I didn't expect you to be able to think it through so thoroughly. ...but now, my terms, ยฃ1000 bet. We need to compare lots from L&T to recent and future results both at L&T (the control) and elsewhere Bonhams Drewatts wherever and see if there is a notable difference of (beyond 20% to account for L&Ts lack of stature and clinetelle and iconic lots) in A. High Bid - B. The Reserve - C. Whether it sold or not. I propose we compare a cross sampling of lots by Gerald Laing, Jeff Koons, Nobuyoshi Araki, Damien Hirst and prints by Banksy, . So pffft. You game? Put up or shut up. |
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savilerogue
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Banksy's artworks fail to shift , by savilerogue on Oct 1, 2008 22:21:39 GMT 1, It's ok, based on your analysis I didn't expect you to be able to think it through so thoroughly
You really are a pompous cunt. Let's talk about analysis shall we - according to your 'analysis', 4 websites is 'dozens'.
It's ok, based on your analysis I didn't expect you to be able to think it through so thoroughly You really are a pompous cunt. Let's talk about analysis shall we - according to your 'analysis', 4 websites is 'dozens'. |
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Banksy's artworks fail to shift , by snausages on Oct 1, 2008 22:29:21 GMT 1, LMAO again SR. Thanks.
So not twelve, verifiably seven different websites including news agencies and major magazines have this on their sites in addition to at least one respected art blog. Sorry, you got me!!!
LMAO again SR. Thanks.
So not twelve, verifiably seven different websites including news agencies and major magazines have this on their sites in addition to at least one respected art blog. Sorry, you got me!!!
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pfffffffffft
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July 2008
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Banksy's artworks fail to shift , by pfffffffffft on Oct 1, 2008 22:31:28 GMT 1, And sure, Pfttt I'll take your bet. But the terms must be modified as your conditions are rather flawed. You think I'm just going to accept someones ridiculous terms that are obviously lopsided to you winning? So here's the deal, the basic terms of your bet is flawed because you contend that 'contemporary' collectors were spooked much more so than Banksy collectors for some reason. Yet you say Banksy print collectors weren't spooked. But what you want to use as a test for your theory are strictly Urban Auctions. Which have prints and originals and no contemporary/modern art. Obviously this is not all encompassing. Furthermore strictly looking at the buy in rate of those auctions does nothing to take into account the bid activity and the reserve prices that quite obviously have a huge impact on the buy in rate. Agree? Nor does it take into account to the higher public awareness, larger clientelle base and prior experience that your auction houses have for hosting urban and contemporary artworks, compared to L&T who has very little experience with such and therefore doesn't have any client base to fall back on. It's ok, based on your analysis I didn't expect you to be able to think it through so thoroughly. ...but now, my terms, ยฃ1000 bet. We need to compare lots from L&T to recent and future results both at L&T (the control) and elsewhere Bonhams Drewatts wherever and see if there is a notable difference of (beyond 20% to account for L&Ts lack of stature and clinetelle and iconic lots) in A. High Bid - B. The Reserve - C. Whether it sold or not. I propose we compare a cross sampling of lots by Gerald Laing, Jeff Koons, Nobuyoshi Araki, Damien Hirst and prints by Banksy, . So pffft. You game? Put up or shut up.
You're f**king pathetic and embarrassing and still f**king wrong wrong wrong.
F**k your terms. As usual, you have completely forgotten every single assertion you have made which again lead me to call you out on your pathetic excuse for analysis of the failure of the L & T auction.
The terms are as they originally stand. If you do not accept the original terms which everyone else on who posted on this thread suggested would be an easy indicator of which one of us was correct then I will take that as an admission of you being WRONG.
After seeing yet another pathetic example of your analytical skills I have determined that you must indeed be this guy:
And sure, Pfttt I'll take your bet. But the terms must be modified as your conditions are rather flawed. You think I'm just going to accept someones ridiculous terms that are obviously lopsided to you winning? So here's the deal, the basic terms of your bet is flawed because you contend that 'contemporary' collectors were spooked much more so than Banksy collectors for some reason. Yet you say Banksy print collectors weren't spooked. But what you want to use as a test for your theory are strictly Urban Auctions. Which have prints and originals and no contemporary/modern art. Obviously this is not all encompassing. Furthermore strictly looking at the buy in rate of those auctions does nothing to take into account the bid activity and the reserve prices that quite obviously have a huge impact on the buy in rate. Agree? Nor does it take into account to the higher public awareness, larger clientelle base and prior experience that your auction houses have for hosting urban and contemporary artworks, compared to L&T who has very little experience with such and therefore doesn't have any client base to fall back on. It's ok, based on your analysis I didn't expect you to be able to think it through so thoroughly. ...but now, my terms, ยฃ1000 bet. We need to compare lots from L&T to recent and future results both at L&T (the control) and elsewhere Bonhams Drewatts wherever and see if there is a notable difference of (beyond 20% to account for L&Ts lack of stature and clinetelle and iconic lots) in A. High Bid - B. The Reserve - C. Whether it sold or not. I propose we compare a cross sampling of lots by Gerald Laing, Jeff Koons, Nobuyoshi Araki, Damien Hirst and prints by Banksy, . So pffft. You game? Put up or shut up. You're f**king pathetic and embarrassing and still f**king wrong wrong wrong. F**k your terms. As usual, you have completely forgotten every single assertion you have made which again lead me to call you out on your pathetic excuse for analysis of the failure of the L & T auction. The terms are as they originally stand. If you do not accept the original terms which everyone else on who posted on this thread suggested would be an easy indicator of which one of us was correct then I will take that as an admission of you being WRONG. After seeing yet another pathetic example of your analytical skills I have determined that you must indeed be this guy: |
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Banksy's artworks fail to shift , by snausages on Oct 1, 2008 22:38:37 GMT 1, Terms as they stand? You're kidding me? As if you're a god who determines things?
Nope, as I've said all along, I think the factors involved in this disastrous outcome include the state of the economy, the high reserve prices, the lower stature of L&T and smaller client base, a lack of iconic lots, and of course some impact from Banksy's statement. Whereas you attribute it to nothing but Banksy. So I've modified the terms to account for all of the things which I have contended all along were the problem.
To be honest I think you have as much chance to win as I do under my terms. But of course you're not a risk taker are you?
And is that your significant other?
Terms as they stand? You're kidding me? As if you're a god who determines things?
Nope, as I've said all along, I think the factors involved in this disastrous outcome include the state of the economy, the high reserve prices, the lower stature of L&T and smaller client base, a lack of iconic lots, and of course some impact from Banksy's statement. Whereas you attribute it to nothing but Banksy. So I've modified the terms to account for all of the things which I have contended all along were the problem.
To be honest I think you have as much chance to win as I do under my terms. But of course you're not a risk taker are you?
And is that your significant other?
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pfffffffffft
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,472
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July 2008
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Banksy's artworks fail to shift , by pfffffffffft on Oct 1, 2008 22:46:54 GMT 1, Terms as they stand? You're kidding me? As if you're a god who determines things? Nope, as I've said all along, I think the factors involved in this disastrous outcome include the state of the economy, the high reserve prices, the lower stature of L&T and smaller client base, and of course some impact from Banksy's statement. Whereas you attribute it to nothing but Banksy. So I've modified the terms to account for all of the things which I have contended all along were the problem. To be honest I think you have as much chance to win as I do under my terms. But of course you're not a risk taker are you? And is that your significant other?
You're an idiot and a coward and you do not belong on this board. I can assure you, I will be there to prove you wrong every turn you make now. You sad, pathetic, insecure wuss.
You havent modified s**t, you've been a ponce trying to (and failing to) over intellectualize very simple cause and effect that you denied over and over again. You said one thing, then you changed your story, then changed it again and again. There is a reason everyone on this board cant stand you, it's because you're an ass.
It's very simple, the average right now is 35% usnold, L & Ts last auction prior to that showed a 29% fail rate. The vermin auction showed 70%. It's pretty obvious what happened but you keep trying and trying to prove yourself right when you are wrong wrong wrong.
You claim you'll accept the bet, then you change your mind, then you change the bet. You are a liar and a cheat.
Instead of collecting art, perhaps you should go back to collecting star trek cards.
You've been proven wrong, go see a shrink and let him talk you through it.
Terms as they stand? You're kidding me? As if you're a god who determines things? Nope, as I've said all along, I think the factors involved in this disastrous outcome include the state of the economy, the high reserve prices, the lower stature of L&T and smaller client base, and of course some impact from Banksy's statement. Whereas you attribute it to nothing but Banksy. So I've modified the terms to account for all of the things which I have contended all along were the problem. To be honest I think you have as much chance to win as I do under my terms. But of course you're not a risk taker are you? And is that your significant other? You're an idiot and a coward and you do not belong on this board. I can assure you, I will be there to prove you wrong every turn you make now. You sad, pathetic, insecure wuss. You havent modified s**t, you've been a ponce trying to (and failing to) over intellectualize very simple cause and effect that you denied over and over again. You said one thing, then you changed your story, then changed it again and again. There is a reason everyone on this board cant stand you, it's because you're an ass. It's very simple, the average right now is 35% usnold, L & Ts last auction prior to that showed a 29% fail rate. The vermin auction showed 70%. It's pretty obvious what happened but you keep trying and trying to prove yourself right when you are wrong wrong wrong. You claim you'll accept the bet, then you change your mind, then you change the bet. You are a liar and a cheat. Instead of collecting art, perhaps you should go back to collecting star trek cards. You've been proven wrong, go see a shrink and let him talk you through it. |
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j8jweb
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 24
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September 2008
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Banksy's artworks fail to shift , by j8jweb on Oct 1, 2008 22:56:29 GMT 1, I've been a member of this forum for just a few days... within minutes of my first post I was accused of having alterior motives (not true), but whatever I said just seemed to feed the paranoid delusions of some forum members... clearly when some people here can taste blood they move in ravenously for the kill!
I gotta say that the level of bitching on this forum is unlike anything I think I've ever come across before. Really horrible atmosphere to be honest... maybe I'm just looking at the wrong threads, but there seems to be a total lack of humility or respect.
I would hope that if some of you take a step back and look at the completely immature and aggressive way you're reacting to each other, maybe it will change things for the better. Sure, noone likes to be wrong, and frankly who the F*** am I to be telling you this as I'm so new here? But sure, that's the obvious reaction which only perpetuates the same old problem. Aren't you bored of finding things to get stressed about?
If anyone disagrees that this place has a blatantly obvious negative vibe, (anticipating some kind of glib comment in response here) then I'd be amazed. Frankly this forum should be renamed "gripe forum" or something similar. Totally embarrassing!
I've been a member of this forum for just a few days... within minutes of my first post I was accused of having alterior motives (not true), but whatever I said just seemed to feed the paranoid delusions of some forum members... clearly when some people here can taste blood they move in ravenously for the kill!
I gotta say that the level of bitching on this forum is unlike anything I think I've ever come across before. Really horrible atmosphere to be honest... maybe I'm just looking at the wrong threads, but there seems to be a total lack of humility or respect.
I would hope that if some of you take a step back and look at the completely immature and aggressive way you're reacting to each other, maybe it will change things for the better. Sure, noone likes to be wrong, and frankly who the F*** am I to be telling you this as I'm so new here? But sure, that's the obvious reaction which only perpetuates the same old problem. Aren't you bored of finding things to get stressed about?
If anyone disagrees that this place has a blatantly obvious negative vibe, (anticipating some kind of glib comment in response here) then I'd be amazed. Frankly this forum should be renamed "gripe forum" or something similar. Totally embarrassing!
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Banksy's artworks fail to shift , by snausages on Oct 1, 2008 22:58:41 GMT 1, Uh ok. So you're saying that I haven't contended that there have ben multiple factors involved? Really? Wow. Ok. I guess I should believe you right.
What you can't comprehend is that when the buy in average at a place like Christies the top auction house in the world mind you is at 35%. Then you might expect that a place like Lyon and Turnball (who never auctioned urban art before as well as most of those contemporaries might have a buy in rate higher than 35%. That really too hard to grasp? Like I said before I think Banksys statement had some impact. I estimate about a 20% impact which is where that number came from. My point being that L&T was looking at probably a 50% buy in rate even if Banksy didn't say something.
...anyway, must be some life you lead eh? Stalking me on the forum ready to prove me wrong at every turn. In fact I think that's what I said was your problem a long time ago when you attacked me over and over with anecdotal facts that merely supported a hypothesis. You weren't just trying to express your opinion. You were on a quest to "prove me wrong." If that's what really gets your rocks off well then I think that calls for seeing a shrink yourself.
You're still welcome to accept my terms. We both stand about a fair chance of winning. That's what a fair bet is you see. I'll accept your terms if we can come to agreement on the odds, but obviously the payoff isn't going to be 1 to 1 since your terms don't take anything I said into account.
Been nice chatting with you.
Uh ok. So you're saying that I haven't contended that there have ben multiple factors involved? Really? Wow. Ok. I guess I should believe you right.
What you can't comprehend is that when the buy in average at a place like Christies the top auction house in the world mind you is at 35%. Then you might expect that a place like Lyon and Turnball (who never auctioned urban art before as well as most of those contemporaries might have a buy in rate higher than 35%. That really too hard to grasp? Like I said before I think Banksys statement had some impact. I estimate about a 20% impact which is where that number came from. My point being that L&T was looking at probably a 50% buy in rate even if Banksy didn't say something.
...anyway, must be some life you lead eh? Stalking me on the forum ready to prove me wrong at every turn. In fact I think that's what I said was your problem a long time ago when you attacked me over and over with anecdotal facts that merely supported a hypothesis. You weren't just trying to express your opinion. You were on a quest to "prove me wrong." If that's what really gets your rocks off well then I think that calls for seeing a shrink yourself.
You're still welcome to accept my terms. We both stand about a fair chance of winning. That's what a fair bet is you see. I'll accept your terms if we can come to agreement on the odds, but obviously the payoff isn't going to be 1 to 1 since your terms don't take anything I said into account.
Been nice chatting with you.
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pfffffffffft
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,472
๐๐ป 1,017
July 2008
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Banksy's artworks fail to shift , by pfffffffffft on Oct 1, 2008 23:02:10 GMT 1, I've been a member of this forum for just a few days... within minutes of my first post I was accused of having alterior motives (not true), but whatever I said just seemed to feed the paranoid delusions of some forum members... clearly when some people here can taste blood they move in ravenously for the kill! I gotta say that the level of b**ching on this forum is unlike anything I think I've ever come across before. Really horrible atmosphere to be honest... maybe I'm just looking at the wrong threads, but there seems to be a total lack of humility or respect. I would hope that if some of you take a step back and look at the completely immature and aggressive way you're reacting to each other, maybe it will change things for the better. Sure, noone likes to be wrong, and frankly who the F*** am I to be telling you this as I'm so new here? But sure, that's the obvious reaction which only perpetuates the same old problem. Aren't you bored of finding things to get stressed about? If anyone disagrees that this place has a blatantly obvious negative vibe, (anticipating some kind of glib comment in response here) then I'd be amazed. Frankly this forum should be renamed "gripe forum" or something similar. Totally embarrassing!
Actually for the most part it usually doesnt have a negative vibe although there are people who do argue more than others.
I think in this case, you have a poster with a history of antagonizing people on this forum so everyone, including me piled on.
I am def guilty of making this thread negative but have also gotten fed up with snausages BS as have many others.
If I have made you or anyone other than snausages upset or unhappy then I am sorry. Snausages can still F off tho.
Welcome to the board, hopefully you wont find all of the threads this angry.
I've been a member of this forum for just a few days... within minutes of my first post I was accused of having alterior motives (not true), but whatever I said just seemed to feed the paranoid delusions of some forum members... clearly when some people here can taste blood they move in ravenously for the kill! I gotta say that the level of b**ching on this forum is unlike anything I think I've ever come across before. Really horrible atmosphere to be honest... maybe I'm just looking at the wrong threads, but there seems to be a total lack of humility or respect. I would hope that if some of you take a step back and look at the completely immature and aggressive way you're reacting to each other, maybe it will change things for the better. Sure, noone likes to be wrong, and frankly who the F*** am I to be telling you this as I'm so new here? But sure, that's the obvious reaction which only perpetuates the same old problem. Aren't you bored of finding things to get stressed about? If anyone disagrees that this place has a blatantly obvious negative vibe, (anticipating some kind of glib comment in response here) then I'd be amazed. Frankly this forum should be renamed "gripe forum" or something similar. Totally embarrassing! Actually for the most part it usually doesnt have a negative vibe although there are people who do argue more than others. I think in this case, you have a poster with a history of antagonizing people on this forum so everyone, including me piled on. I am def guilty of making this thread negative but have also gotten fed up with snausages BS as have many others. If I have made you or anyone other than snausages upset or unhappy then I am sorry. Snausages can still F off tho. Welcome to the board, hopefully you wont find all of the threads this angry. |
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Banksy's artworks fail to shift , by alsbabar on Oct 1, 2008 23:03:14 GMT 1, oi snausages/robin/cuntchops - here is the vulcan salute - meaning fuck off you cnut
oi snausages/robin/cuntchops - here is the vulcan salute - meaning fuck off you cnut |
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pfffffffffft
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,472
๐๐ป 1,017
July 2008
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Banksy's artworks fail to shift , by pfffffffffft on Oct 1, 2008 23:03:42 GMT 1, Uh ok. So you're saying that I haven't contended that there have ben multiple factors involved? Really? Wow. Ok. I guess I should believe you right. What you can't comprehend is that when the buy in average at a place like Christies the top auction house in the world mind you is at 35%. Then you might expect that a place like Lyon and Turnball (who never auctioned urban art before as well as most of those contemporaries might have a buy in rate higher than 35%. That really too hard to grasp? Like I said before I think Banksys statement had some impact. I estimate about a 20% impact which is where that number came from. My point being that L&T was looking at probably a 50% buy in rate even if Banksy didn't say something. ...anyway, must be some life you lead eh? Stalking me on the forum ready to prove me wrong at every turn. In fact I think that's what I said was your problem a long time ago when you attacked me over and over with anecdotal facts that merely supported a hypothesis. You weren't just trying to express your opinion. You were on a quest to "prove me wrong." If that's what really gets your rocks off well then I think that calls for seeing a shrink yourself. You're still welcome to accept my terms. We both stand about a fair chance of winning. That's what a fair bet is you see. I'll accept your terms if we can come to agreement on the odds, but obviously the payoff isn't going to be 1 to 1 since your terms don't take anything I said into account. Been nice chatting with you.
You are an insecure and pathetic, and apparently broke idiot robin. Go back to collecting star trek posters.
Uh ok. So you're saying that I haven't contended that there have ben multiple factors involved? Really? Wow. Ok. I guess I should believe you right. What you can't comprehend is that when the buy in average at a place like Christies the top auction house in the world mind you is at 35%. Then you might expect that a place like Lyon and Turnball (who never auctioned urban art before as well as most of those contemporaries might have a buy in rate higher than 35%. That really too hard to grasp? Like I said before I think Banksys statement had some impact. I estimate about a 20% impact which is where that number came from. My point being that L&T was looking at probably a 50% buy in rate even if Banksy didn't say something. ...anyway, must be some life you lead eh? Stalking me on the forum ready to prove me wrong at every turn. In fact I think that's what I said was your problem a long time ago when you attacked me over and over with anecdotal facts that merely supported a hypothesis. You weren't just trying to express your opinion. You were on a quest to "prove me wrong." If that's what really gets your rocks off well then I think that calls for seeing a shrink yourself. You're still welcome to accept my terms. We both stand about a fair chance of winning. That's what a fair bet is you see. I'll accept your terms if we can come to agreement on the odds, but obviously the payoff isn't going to be 1 to 1 since your terms don't take anything I said into account. Been nice chatting with you. You are an insecure and pathetic, and apparently broke idiot robin. Go back to collecting star trek posters. |
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Banksy's artworks fail to shift , by snausages on Oct 1, 2008 23:08:32 GMT 1, Welcome to the board j8jweb.
But yes this is the internet and unfortunately you should beware that if you say anything that might offend someone or people don't agree with then they pile on you and relentlessly attack you in an effort to drive you away so that they can live in a world without question. Unfortunately it's the old group "mob mentality" here and sometimes they get carried away. It's ok, I understand that's just the way some people (although not everyone here) is.
Welcome to the board j8jweb.
But yes this is the internet and unfortunately you should beware that if you say anything that might offend someone or people don't agree with then they pile on you and relentlessly attack you in an effort to drive you away so that they can live in a world without question. Unfortunately it's the old group "mob mentality" here and sometimes they get carried away. It's ok, I understand that's just the way some people (although not everyone here) is.
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