shavemysoul
New Member
Posts โข 537
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July 2007
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Bad Man, by shavemysoul on Nov 5, 2007 1:13:37 GMT 1, looking at the pragmatics for a moment, because he won't get it and some poor sod shelling out more than they have likewise won't get it. maybe for that reason? but the person buying knows that the seller does not have the print in hand. no-one is forcing anyone to do anything. if a buyer is happy only to bid on an item the seller has in hand then they can wait for this to be the case.
Fair. But i think you'd be making an assumption that everyone who buys/bids on Banksy on eBay is familiar with POW's terms and conditions
looking at the pragmatics for a moment, because he won't get it and some poor sod shelling out more than they have likewise won't get it. maybe for that reason? but the person buying knows that the seller does not have the print in hand. no-one is forcing anyone to do anything. if a buyer is happy only to bid on an item the seller has in hand then they can wait for this to be the case. Fair. But i think you'd be making an assumption that everyone who buys/bids on Banksy on eBay is familiar with POW's terms and conditions
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Bad Man, by finsburyparkranger on Nov 5, 2007 1:14:25 GMT 1, there is always talk like this with recent releases. has anyone ever heard of POW cancelling anyones print order because of ebay? i never have.
Yes they do buddy, they ban people for life sometimes, if they think someone is just taking the piss out of their attempt to provide affordable art.
there is always talk like this with recent releases. has anyone ever heard of POW cancelling anyones print order because of ebay? i never have. Yes they do buddy, they ban people for life sometimes, if they think someone is just taking the piss out of their attempt to provide affordable art.
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Bad Man, by mwjm0 on Nov 5, 2007 1:16:17 GMT 1, i've been checking POW daily for months and on some days refreshing hourly because i would have loved a trolleys print. like loads of others i didn't get lucky. if i had i would have been straight to the framers. i don't for a second feel that i am more entitled to get the print over anyone else regardless of whether they hang it, flip it or rip it in half. POW do nothing to help 'real' fans get the prints and rightly so. I just don't understand the mentality of people who get angry about what other people do with their own property.
i've been checking POW daily for months and on some days refreshing hourly because i would have loved a trolleys print. like loads of others i didn't get lucky. if i had i would have been straight to the framers. i don't for a second feel that i am more entitled to get the print over anyone else regardless of whether they hang it, flip it or rip it in half. POW do nothing to help 'real' fans get the prints and rightly so. I just don't understand the mentality of people who get angry about what other people do with their own property.
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Bad Man, by mwjm0 on Nov 5, 2007 1:17:12 GMT 1, there is always talk like this with recent releases. has anyone ever heard of POW cancelling anyones print order because of ebay? i never have. Yes they do buddy, they ban people for life sometimes, if they think someone is just taking the piss out of their attempt to provide affordable art.
like who? who has been banned for life from POW? how could they possibly enforce a ban?
there is always talk like this with recent releases. has anyone ever heard of POW cancelling anyones print order because of ebay? i never have. Yes they do buddy, they ban people for life sometimes, if they think someone is just taking the piss out of their attempt to provide affordable art. like who? who has been banned for life from POW? how could they possibly enforce a ban?
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Bad Man, by finsburyparkranger on Nov 5, 2007 1:19:34 GMT 1, Who's going to go around shouting about it? I'm not going to name names but I know at least one person for sure. Promise.
Who's going to go around shouting about it? I'm not going to name names but I know at least one person for sure. Promise.
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Bad Man, by mwjm0 on Nov 5, 2007 1:20:51 GMT 1, Who's going to go around shouting about it? I'm not going to name names but I know at least one person for sure. Promise.
Fair enough but that person could easily change credit cards and have the print sent to a family member or friend.
Who's going to go around shouting about it? I'm not going to name names but I know at least one person for sure. Promise. Fair enough but that person could easily change credit cards and have the print sent to a family member or friend.
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Bad Man, by leehambly on Nov 5, 2007 1:21:02 GMT 1, i've been checking POW daily for months and on some days refreshing hourly because i would have loved a trolleys print. like loads of others i didn't get lucky. if i had i would have been straight to the framers. i don't for a second feel that i am more entitled to get the print over anyone else regardless of whether they hang it, flip it or rip it in half. POW do nothing to help 'real' fans get the prints and rightly so. I just don't understand the mentality of people who get angry about what other people do with their own property.
People are passionate about art... one of the reasons why we all want it, I s'pose. "Flip" or "rip" is going to inflame those passions, surely you can understand that?
i've been checking POW daily for months and on some days refreshing hourly because i would have loved a trolleys print. like loads of others i didn't get lucky. if i had i would have been straight to the framers. i don't for a second feel that i am more entitled to get the print over anyone else regardless of whether they hang it, flip it or rip it in half. POW do nothing to help 'real' fans get the prints and rightly so. I just don't understand the mentality of people who get angry about what other people do with their own property. People are passionate about art... one of the reasons why we all want it, I s'pose. "Flip" or "rip" is going to inflame those passions, surely you can understand that?
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shavemysoul
New Member
Posts โข 537
Likes โข 0
July 2007
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Bad Man, by shavemysoul on Nov 5, 2007 1:22:04 GMT 1, i've been checking POW daily for months and on some days refreshing hourly because i would have loved a trolleys print. like loads of others i didn't get lucky. if i had i would have been straight to the framers. i don't for a second feel that i am more entitled to get the print over anyone else regardless of whether they hang it, flip it or rip it in half. POW do nothing to help 'real' fans get the prints and rightly so. I just don't understand the mentality of people who get angry about what other people do with their own property.
And I'm sure Thom from Radiohead loves those fat bald fucks outside their gigs keeping out people who've bought their records for years and sympathise with the statements in their music.
i've been checking POW daily for months and on some days refreshing hourly because i would have loved a trolleys print. like loads of others i didn't get lucky. if i had i would have been straight to the framers. i don't for a second feel that i am more entitled to get the print over anyone else regardless of whether they hang it, flip it or rip it in half. POW do nothing to help 'real' fans get the prints and rightly so. I just don't understand the mentality of people who get angry about what other people do with their own property. And I'm sure Thom from Radiohead loves those fat bald fucks outside their gigs keeping out people who've bought their records for years and sympathise with the statements in their music.
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guest2
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,471
Likes โข 1
December 2006
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Bad Man, by guest2 on Nov 5, 2007 1:23:23 GMT 1, i've been checking POW daily for months and on some days refreshing hourly because i would have loved a trolleys print. like loads of others i didn't get lucky. if i had i would have been straight to the framers. i don't for a second feel that i am more entitled to get the print over anyone else regardless of whether they hang it, flip it or rip it in half. POW do nothing to help 'real' fans get the prints and rightly so. I just don't understand the mentality of people who get angry about what other people do with their own property.
Someone flip me a colour one. I must say it's grown on me I'll swap it for strange encounters and GIWTBB and something else on top.
i've been checking POW daily for months and on some days refreshing hourly because i would have loved a trolleys print. like loads of others i didn't get lucky. if i had i would have been straight to the framers. i don't for a second feel that i am more entitled to get the print over anyone else regardless of whether they hang it, flip it or rip it in half. POW do nothing to help 'real' fans get the prints and rightly so. I just don't understand the mentality of people who get angry about what other people do with their own property. Someone flip me a colour one. I must say it's grown on me I'll swap it for strange encounters and GIWTBB and something else on top.
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Bad Man, by mwjm0 on Nov 5, 2007 1:27:32 GMT 1, i've been checking POW daily for months and on some days refreshing hourly because i would have loved a trolleys print. like loads of others i didn't get lucky. if i had i would have been straight to the framers. i don't for a second feel that i am more entitled to get the print over anyone else regardless of whether they hang it, flip it or rip it in half. POW do nothing to help 'real' fans get the prints and rightly so. I just don't understand the mentality of people who get angry about what other people do with their own property. People are passionate about art... one of the reasons why we all want it, I s'pose. "Flip" or "rip" is going to inflame those passions, surely you can understand that?
i felt pissed off the day of the release after wasting months checking the site, but i couldn't care less about what people i don't know do with their print. they're not ripping me off or POW. they are selling the print to someone who can afford to buy it at market price.
i've been checking POW daily for months and on some days refreshing hourly because i would have loved a trolleys print. like loads of others i didn't get lucky. if i had i would have been straight to the framers. i don't for a second feel that i am more entitled to get the print over anyone else regardless of whether they hang it, flip it or rip it in half. POW do nothing to help 'real' fans get the prints and rightly so. I just don't understand the mentality of people who get angry about what other people do with their own property. People are passionate about art... one of the reasons why we all want it, I s'pose. "Flip" or "rip" is going to inflame those passions, surely you can understand that? i felt pissed off the day of the release after wasting months checking the site, but i couldn't care less about what people i don't know do with their print. they're not ripping me off or POW. they are selling the print to someone who can afford to buy it at market price.
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Bad Man, by mwjm0 on Nov 5, 2007 1:32:49 GMT 1, i've been checking POW daily for months and on some days refreshing hourly because i would have loved a trolleys print. like loads of others i didn't get lucky. if i had i would have been straight to the framers. i don't for a second feel that i am more entitled to get the print over anyone else regardless of whether they hang it, flip it or rip it in half. POW do nothing to help 'real' fans get the prints and rightly so. I just don't understand the mentality of people who get angry about what other people do with their own property. And I'm sure Thom from Radiohead loves those fat bald f**ks outside their gigs keeping out people who've bought their records for years and sympathise with the statements in their music.
thats a fair point. i dislike (and have never bought from) ticket touts or people who make a living from flipping things. if the guy selling this print had a history of buying multiple desirable prints or had flipped serial banksy / micallef prints it would be different. this is probably the only one he has or will ever have because they are ridiculously difficult to get. maybe i'm missing something but i just don't get the anger towards people doing this.
i've been checking POW daily for months and on some days refreshing hourly because i would have loved a trolleys print. like loads of others i didn't get lucky. if i had i would have been straight to the framers. i don't for a second feel that i am more entitled to get the print over anyone else regardless of whether they hang it, flip it or rip it in half. POW do nothing to help 'real' fans get the prints and rightly so. I just don't understand the mentality of people who get angry about what other people do with their own property. And I'm sure Thom from Radiohead loves those fat bald f**ks outside their gigs keeping out people who've bought their records for years and sympathise with the statements in their music. thats a fair point. i dislike (and have never bought from) ticket touts or people who make a living from flipping things. if the guy selling this print had a history of buying multiple desirable prints or had flipped serial banksy / micallef prints it would be different. this is probably the only one he has or will ever have because they are ridiculously difficult to get. maybe i'm missing something but i just don't get the anger towards people doing this.
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tomdc85
New Member
Posts โข 42
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October 2007
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Bad Man, by tomdc85 on Nov 5, 2007 1:33:35 GMT 1, If I'm truly honest, if I scored a signed b/w, I'd sell it and buy an unsigned b/w. I love the image but I'm not fussed about signatures. The print I bought would be going to the home of someone that obviously REALLY wanted it, and I'd be getting a print I really wanted at only ยฃ500ish above cost. Just makes sense to me.
That way I'd have ยฃ3000 more to spend on art, which would be nice.
(this is however irrelevant as I got a coloured, which I <3 )
If I'm truly honest, if I scored a signed b/w, I'd sell it and buy an unsigned b/w. I love the image but I'm not fussed about signatures. The print I bought would be going to the home of someone that obviously REALLY wanted it, and I'd be getting a print I really wanted at only ยฃ500ish above cost. Just makes sense to me.
That way I'd have ยฃ3000 more to spend on art, which would be nice.
(this is however irrelevant as I got a coloured, which I <3 )
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guest2
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,471
Likes โข 1
December 2006
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Bad Man, by guest2 on Nov 5, 2007 1:34:43 GMT 1, If I'm truly honest, if I scored a signed b/w, I'd sell it and buy an unsigned b/w. I love the image but I'm not fussed about signatures. The print I bought would be going to the home of someone that obviously REALLY wanted it, and I'd be getting a print I really wanted at only ยฃ500ish above cost. Just makes sense to me. That way I'd have ยฃ3000 more to spend on art, which would be nice. (this is however irrelevant as I got a coloured, which I <3 )
sell me colour, buy b/w
If I'm truly honest, if I scored a signed b/w, I'd sell it and buy an unsigned b/w. I love the image but I'm not fussed about signatures. The print I bought would be going to the home of someone that obviously REALLY wanted it, and I'd be getting a print I really wanted at only ยฃ500ish above cost. Just makes sense to me. That way I'd have ยฃ3000 more to spend on art, which would be nice. (this is however irrelevant as I got a coloured, which I <3 ) sell me colour, buy b/w
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jam
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,629
Likes โข 31
November 2006
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Bad Man, by jam on Nov 5, 2007 1:36:34 GMT 1, i felt pissed off the day of the release after wasting months checking the site, but i couldn't care less about what people i don't know do with their print. they're not ripping me off or POW. they are selling the print to someone who can afford to buy it at market price.
But flippers are ripping you off... they are taking the chance for you to own a print at a price the artist and POW find reasonable away so they can make a fast buck. What about the time you mentioned following the site... they effectively stole that time from you as well, because chances are without their demand on the market you would have more likely wound up with a print for your time to keep up on the release.
i felt pissed off the day of the release after wasting months checking the site, but i couldn't care less about what people i don't know do with their print. they're not ripping me off or POW. they are selling the print to someone who can afford to buy it at market price. But flippers are ripping you off... they are taking the chance for you to own a print at a price the artist and POW find reasonable away so they can make a fast buck. What about the time you mentioned following the site... they effectively stole that time from you as well, because chances are without their demand on the market you would have more likely wound up with a print for your time to keep up on the release.
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Bad Man, by leehambly on Nov 5, 2007 1:37:33 GMT 1, People are passionate about art... one of the reasons why we all want it, I s'pose. "Flip" or "rip" is going to inflame those passions, surely you can understand that? i felt pissed off the day of the release after wasting months checking the site, but i couldn't care less about what people i don't know do with their print. they're not ripping me off or POW. they are selling the print to someone who can afford to buy it at market price.
If the profiteers weren't interested and you had been able to get your hands on one, you wouldn't have felt pissed off though, right?
Dunno if this comes out right... Is it owning the image, as an item on your wall or in your portfolio/cupboard or is it the very exclusivity of actually winning the chase that adds to the value? You can understand why artists and rock stars go mental, every one wants a bit of something.
Sorry, I'm fairly new to buying from POW (web based anyway) and fighting with other people to get the right to own something and am actually interested.
People are passionate about art... one of the reasons why we all want it, I s'pose. "Flip" or "rip" is going to inflame those passions, surely you can understand that? i felt pissed off the day of the release after wasting months checking the site, but i couldn't care less about what people i don't know do with their print. they're not ripping me off or POW. they are selling the print to someone who can afford to buy it at market price. If the profiteers weren't interested and you had been able to get your hands on one, you wouldn't have felt pissed off though, right? Dunno if this comes out right... Is it owning the image, as an item on your wall or in your portfolio/cupboard or is it the very exclusivity of actually winning the chase that adds to the value? You can understand why artists and rock stars go mental, every one wants a bit of something. Sorry, I'm fairly new to buying from POW (web based anyway) and fighting with other people to get the right to own something and am actually interested.
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snapwolfe
New Member
Posts โข 175
Likes โข 69
July 2007
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Bad Man, by snapwolfe on Nov 5, 2007 1:37:47 GMT 1, Ive thought about doing that myself with the signed b/w. ive never owned b's work before. think maybe ill grab a few unsigned lovlies from the past with the proceeds. I love the trolleys print, but im stuck on bombhugger.
Ive thought about doing that myself with the signed b/w. ive never owned b's work before. think maybe ill grab a few unsigned lovlies from the past with the proceeds. I love the trolleys print, but im stuck on bombhugger.
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shavemysoul
New Member
Posts โข 537
Likes โข 0
July 2007
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Bad Man, by shavemysoul on Nov 5, 2007 1:51:36 GMT 1, I still wouldn't commend it, and there's no way for the outside observer to quantify the actions... but I think it's an inherently different thing when someone buys a piece and looks to exchange for different art. I still don't support such actions, but I think a difference can be made between those who do so and those who have no interest in art and are just tempted by the $$$ signs.
I still wouldn't commend it, and there's no way for the outside observer to quantify the actions... but I think it's an inherently different thing when someone buys a piece and looks to exchange for different art. I still don't support such actions, but I think a difference can be made between those who do so and those who have no interest in art and are just tempted by the $$$ signs.
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Richard
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,351
Likes โข 178
September 2007
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Bad Man, by Richard on Nov 5, 2007 2:09:05 GMT 1, i felt pissed off the day of the release after wasting months checking the site, but i couldn't care less about what people i don't know do with their print. they're not ripping me off or POW. they are selling the print to someone who can afford to buy it at market price. But flippers are ripping you off... they are taking the chance for you to own a print at a price the artist and POW find reasonable away so they can make a fast buck. What about the time you mentioned following the site... they effectively stole that time from you as well, because chances are without their demand on the market you would have more likely wound up with a print for your time to keep up on the release.
Ripping off...stealing...not really. They just beat you to it. You or I may not like the fact they did it but some people on here need to realise such is life. If you all spent less time b**ching over it on here like the WI and more time FOCUSED on F5'ing then maybe you would have a signed B in the post! ;D
i felt pissed off the day of the release after wasting months checking the site, but i couldn't care less about what people i don't know do with their print. they're not ripping me off or POW. they are selling the print to someone who can afford to buy it at market price. But flippers are ripping you off... they are taking the chance for you to own a print at a price the artist and POW find reasonable away so they can make a fast buck. What about the time you mentioned following the site... they effectively stole that time from you as well, because chances are without their demand on the market you would have more likely wound up with a print for your time to keep up on the release. Ripping off...stealing...not really. They just beat you to it. You or I may not like the fact they did it but some people on here need to realise such is life. If you all spent less time b**ching over it on here like the WI and more time FOCUSED on F5'ing then maybe you would have a signed B in the post! ;D
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dmandpenfold
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,466
Likes โข 10
December 2006
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Bad Man, by dmandpenfold on Nov 5, 2007 2:23:56 GMT 1, Plenty of points here but i believe it comes down to this in the end;
- POW and the Artist released prints at well below market price because they believe us ordinary mortals should be able to buy art we enjoy without emptying our bank accounts or re-mortgaging our houses. If they didn't give a toss the prints would be available online from POW at market prices of several thousand pounds and would take months to sell out. i for one thank them both
- If the prints are bought from POW for below market price and sold at inflated values the principles that POW and Banksy have sought to promote have been undermined and both would rightly be pissed off, as should the 'ordinary mortal' who now has no option but to buy the print at inflated prices.
-The flipper does nothing, there is no appreciation of art, no understanding of the principles and certainly he or she is no friend of the individual who now has to fork out another GBP2000-3000 to hang a print they may have eagerly anticipated for some time. The flipper is in it only for money, greed and avarice is their motivation, fatter bank accounts their reward
You can discuss and quarrel as much as you like about the morals of those that sell prints without any intention of ever keeping them, however i am sure that POW and Banksy are more than dismayed at the cynical shenanigans of some buyers.
Snitching?? bullshit, if the touts can be kept at bay we are all better off.
Plenty of points here but i believe it comes down to this in the end; - POW and the Artist released prints at well below market price because they believe us ordinary mortals should be able to buy art we enjoy without emptying our bank accounts or re-mortgaging our houses. If they didn't give a toss the prints would be available online from POW at market prices of several thousand pounds and would take months to sell out. i for one thank them both - If the prints are bought from POW for below market price and sold at inflated values the principles that POW and Banksy have sought to promote have been undermined and both would rightly be pissed off, as should the 'ordinary mortal' who now has no option but to buy the print at inflated prices. -The flipper does nothing, there is no appreciation of art, no understanding of the principles and certainly he or she is no friend of the individual who now has to fork out another GBP2000-3000 to hang a print they may have eagerly anticipated for some time. The flipper is in it only for money, greed and avarice is their motivation, fatter bank accounts their reward You can discuss and quarrel as much as you like about the morals of those that sell prints without any intention of ever keeping them, however i am sure that POW and Banksy are more than dismayed at the cynical shenanigans of some buyers. Snitching?? bullshit, if the touts can be kept at bay we are all better off.
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shavemysoul
New Member
Posts โข 537
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July 2007
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Bad Man, by shavemysoul on Nov 5, 2007 2:33:12 GMT 1, Plenty of points here but i believe it comes down to this in the end; - POW and the Artist released prints at well below market price because they believe us ordinary mortals should be able to buy art we enjoy without emptying our bank accounts or re-mortgaging our houses. If they didn't give a toss the prints would be available online from POW at market prices of several thousand pounds and would take months to sell out. i for one thank them both - If the prints are bought from POW for below market price and sold at inflated values the principles that POW and Banksy have sought to promote have been undermined and both would rightly be pissed off, as should the 'ordinary mortal' who now has no option but to buy the print at inflated prices. -The flipper does nothing, there is no appreciation of art, no understanding of the principles and certainly he or she is no friend of the individual who now has to fork out another GBP2000-3000 to hang a print they may have eagerly anticipated for some time. The flipper is in it only for money, greed and avarice is their motivation, fatter bank accounts their reward You can discuss and quarrel as much as you like about the morals of those that sell prints without any intention of ever keeping them, however i am sure that POW and Banksy are more than dismayed at the cynical shenanigans of some buyers. Snitching?? bulls**t, if the touts can be kept at bay we are all better off.
Quite agree with those points. Not quite sure how anyone can have any sympathy with the eBay seller in so much as he's not gonna get his print. I wouldn't wanna get personal about it (don't wanna know anything about the guy), above and beyond the hope that he doesn't get a print which might well otherwise go to a fan (and I wouldn't care if it weren't me, cos I did get an unsigned) who really wanted to keep it for the image.
Plenty of points here but i believe it comes down to this in the end; - POW and the Artist released prints at well below market price because they believe us ordinary mortals should be able to buy art we enjoy without emptying our bank accounts or re-mortgaging our houses. If they didn't give a toss the prints would be available online from POW at market prices of several thousand pounds and would take months to sell out. i for one thank them both - If the prints are bought from POW for below market price and sold at inflated values the principles that POW and Banksy have sought to promote have been undermined and both would rightly be pissed off, as should the 'ordinary mortal' who now has no option but to buy the print at inflated prices. -The flipper does nothing, there is no appreciation of art, no understanding of the principles and certainly he or she is no friend of the individual who now has to fork out another GBP2000-3000 to hang a print they may have eagerly anticipated for some time. The flipper is in it only for money, greed and avarice is their motivation, fatter bank accounts their reward You can discuss and quarrel as much as you like about the morals of those that sell prints without any intention of ever keeping them, however i am sure that POW and Banksy are more than dismayed at the cynical shenanigans of some buyers. Snitching?? bulls**t, if the touts can be kept at bay we are all better off. Quite agree with those points. Not quite sure how anyone can have any sympathy with the eBay seller in so much as he's not gonna get his print. I wouldn't wanna get personal about it (don't wanna know anything about the guy), above and beyond the hope that he doesn't get a print which might well otherwise go to a fan (and I wouldn't care if it weren't me, cos I did get an unsigned) who really wanted to keep it for the image.
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tomdc85
New Member
Posts โข 42
Likes โข 0
October 2007
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Bad Man, by tomdc85 on Nov 5, 2007 3:01:04 GMT 1, But if I REALLY wanted a print that I just couldn't afford, and I had the chance to flip a print that I didn't want nearly as much so that I could afford the one I did want, I would. And I bet many of the users of this forum feel the same way.
I love art, and I'm not above making use of the market forces to get my hands on it.
I know it's not the most altruistic view I could have, but at least it's an honest one. I missed out on when Banksy was reasonably priced back in the day, and if I didn't play the game just a little, I would have barren walls and a less cheerful daily life.
But if I REALLY wanted a print that I just couldn't afford, and I had the chance to flip a print that I didn't want nearly as much so that I could afford the one I did want, I would. And I bet many of the users of this forum feel the same way.
I love art, and I'm not above making use of the market forces to get my hands on it.
I know it's not the most altruistic view I could have, but at least it's an honest one. I missed out on when Banksy was reasonably priced back in the day, and if I didn't play the game just a little, I would have barren walls and a less cheerful daily life.
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Bad Man, by ricosg11 on Nov 5, 2007 3:29:06 GMT 1, But if I REALLY wanted a print that I just couldn't afford, and I had the chance to flip a print that I didn't want nearly as much so that I could afford the one I did want, I would. And I bet many of the users of this forum feel the same way. I love art, and I'm not above making use of the market forces to get my hands on it. I know it's not the most altruistic view I could have, but at least it's an honest one. I missed out on when Banksy was reasonably priced back in the day, and if I didn't play the game just a little, I would have barren walls and a less cheerful daily life.
Well said. Jam I gotta say I disagree with your view on this. Its just very competitive now. In the end something is only worth what someone is willing to pay
But if I REALLY wanted a print that I just couldn't afford, and I had the chance to flip a print that I didn't want nearly as much so that I could afford the one I did want, I would. And I bet many of the users of this forum feel the same way. I love art, and I'm not above making use of the market forces to get my hands on it. I know it's not the most altruistic view I could have, but at least it's an honest one. I missed out on when Banksy was reasonably priced back in the day, and if I didn't play the game just a little, I would have barren walls and a less cheerful daily life. Well said. Jam I gotta say I disagree with your view on this. Its just very competitive now. In the end something is only worth what someone is willing to pay
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Bad Man, by leehambly on Nov 5, 2007 9:14:59 GMT 1, But if I REALLY wanted a print that I just couldn't afford, and I had the chance to flip a print that I didn't want nearly as much so that I could afford the one I did want, I would. And I bet many of the users of this forum feel the same way. I love art, and I'm not above making use of the market forces to get my hands on it. I know it's not the most altruistic view I could have, but at least it's an honest one. I missed out on when Banksy was reasonably priced back in the day, and if I didn't play the game just a little, I would have barren walls and a less cheerful daily life. Well said. Jam I gotta say I disagree with your view on this. Its just very competitive now. In the end something is only worth what someone is willing to pay
Isn't this essentially the same as flipping though? It's gaining leverage, capitalising, whatever you want to call it... and, imo, doesn't sit very comfortably with either the basic intention of the source or one of main contents of the material. I appreciate fully that this is a very naive viewpoint, but then I'm not sure there isn't room for maintaining a bit of naivety in appreciating a piece of art, especially when the content is often very singular.
Whichever way you paint it (and I fully understand how much I'm gonna get burnt for this - content and pun), this is, in essence, counterpoint to the material and anyone "flipping" (whatever their intention) just doesn't really "get it" or is dealing with some form of hypocrisy, however it's intentioned..? That said, I'm in a bit of a dilemma (hopefully a similar one to the artists) regarding the cost and message behind any and all of the art really, when originals are being sold for tens and hundreds of thousands of ยฃยฃยฃ's..?
But if I REALLY wanted a print that I just couldn't afford, and I had the chance to flip a print that I didn't want nearly as much so that I could afford the one I did want, I would. And I bet many of the users of this forum feel the same way. I love art, and I'm not above making use of the market forces to get my hands on it. I know it's not the most altruistic view I could have, but at least it's an honest one. I missed out on when Banksy was reasonably priced back in the day, and if I didn't play the game just a little, I would have barren walls and a less cheerful daily life. Well said. Jam I gotta say I disagree with your view on this. Its just very competitive now. In the end something is only worth what someone is willing to pay Isn't this essentially the same as flipping though? It's gaining leverage, capitalising, whatever you want to call it... and, imo, doesn't sit very comfortably with either the basic intention of the source or one of main contents of the material. I appreciate fully that this is a very naive viewpoint, but then I'm not sure there isn't room for maintaining a bit of naivety in appreciating a piece of art, especially when the content is often very singular. Whichever way you paint it (and I fully understand how much I'm gonna get burnt for this - content and pun), this is, in essence, counterpoint to the material and anyone "flipping" (whatever their intention) just doesn't really "get it" or is dealing with some form of hypocrisy, however it's intentioned..? That said, I'm in a bit of a dilemma (hopefully a similar one to the artists) regarding the cost and message behind any and all of the art really, when originals are being sold for tens and hundreds of thousands of ยฃยฃยฃ's..?
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artpartment
New Member
Posts โข 623
Likes โข 75
September 2007
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Bad Man, by artpartment on Nov 5, 2007 9:58:49 GMT 1, simple rules .no excuse for flippers exept he spend all the money for the charity auction .than for me it will be ok
simple rules .no excuse for flippers exept he spend all the money for the charity auction .than for me it will be ok
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Bad Man, by jonpud on Nov 5, 2007 10:11:22 GMT 1, what a sorry bunch of snitches. i hope POW send the guy the print. i would be amazed if they didn't. just because you would have kept it and hung it on the wall does not entitle you to make judgements and decisions on what others should do. there's a lot more to be angry about than some guy getting lucky and making a profit. why would POW be bothered whether the guy sold it tomorrow or in twelve months? what difference does whether he has the print or not make if someone is willing to buy it off him?
mwjm0, nothing personal mate as you are fully entitled to an opinion, without it this forum would not exist!! BUT I am guessing you didn't stand in the Queue at Lazarides for 10 hours waiting to buy a print to hang on your wall, whilst watching some fat cunt and his wife and his 3 kids walk out of the shop with 20 prints with no love for the art whatsoever just a simple motivation of greed!? I still haven't bought one of these prints as I was so disgusted at the openness of the piss take going on! prints were listed on ebay at 3 times the original price whilst I was still stood in a piss filled alley with no hope of getting a copy because of the flippers. The amount that have appeared on Ebay since the release would have easily catered for those in the Queue who genuinely wanted a print to hang on their wall!!!!!
Iwill NEVER buy from anyone openly flipping a print that I had been after, I have tried to obtain a copy of all of the LA series release to date from POW without success (until now that is with a signed Trolleys) but I still refuse to buy Grannies, Morons or Applause from the Bay.
I HAVE however bought other Banksy prints from Ebay including a signed WSM, a signed Police Kids, unsigned Bombhugger and unsigned Flying Copper. The reason I find these acceptable to buy is because they were pre LA prints, the people who bought them generally bought them because they admired Banksy's work, they did not buy them knowing that they would be worth 10/20/30 times their initial price within a couple of years. Once they were worth this sort of money the temptation to sell became too much, after all everyone has their price!! And without trying to generalize too much these people did not have the income of Brad Pit!! (someone else who would not have heard of Banksy at the time)
All I am trying to say is that if you can't see the problem with flippers and you want to know when it becomes acceptable to sell a print, well mate IMO flippers are the fucking scum of the earth, they are basically robbing a chance of a genuine 'fan' who is working within a budget and selling to the same fan who has to commit far more money than he would like to own something that he/she cares deeply about. That my friend is playing on peoples emotions and disgusts me in every way imaginable.
There are members on here who have sold prints far below market price, there are members on here who didn't want a copy of certain prints (GIWTBB for example) who got one in their basket, contacted another member and helped them secure the print at cost when they could easily have bought and flipped for a quick profit!! I know as it has happened to me (Big up Fearkiller) These are the people I respect and who I like to associate with, this is a family of types which unfortunately is permanently exposed to public scrutiny by lurkers, baggers and flippers, we are our own worse enemy at times but at the end of the day we generally all feel the same way about the scum who take from us the chance to enjoy our communal interest!
Here endeth the lesson! ;D
what a sorry bunch of snitches. i hope POW send the guy the print. i would be amazed if they didn't. just because you would have kept it and hung it on the wall does not entitle you to make judgements and decisions on what others should do. there's a lot more to be angry about than some guy getting lucky and making a profit. why would POW be bothered whether the guy sold it tomorrow or in twelve months? what difference does whether he has the print or not make if someone is willing to buy it off him? mwjm0, nothing personal mate as you are fully entitled to an opinion, without it this forum would not exist!! BUT I am guessing you didn't stand in the Queue at Lazarides for 10 hours waiting to buy a print to hang on your wall, whilst watching some fat cunt and his wife and his 3 kids walk out of the shop with 20 prints with no love for the art whatsoever just a simple motivation of greed!? I still haven't bought one of these prints as I was so disgusted at the openness of the piss take going on! prints were listed on ebay at 3 times the original price whilst I was still stood in a piss filled alley with no hope of getting a copy because of the flippers. The amount that have appeared on Ebay since the release would have easily catered for those in the Queue who genuinely wanted a print to hang on their wall!!!!! Iwill NEVER buy from anyone openly flipping a print that I had been after, I have tried to obtain a copy of all of the LA series release to date from POW without success (until now that is with a signed Trolleys) but I still refuse to buy Grannies, Morons or Applause from the Bay. I HAVE however bought other Banksy prints from Ebay including a signed WSM, a signed Police Kids, unsigned Bombhugger and unsigned Flying Copper. The reason I find these acceptable to buy is because they were pre LA prints, the people who bought them generally bought them because they admired Banksy's work, they did not buy them knowing that they would be worth 10/20/30 times their initial price within a couple of years. Once they were worth this sort of money the temptation to sell became too much, after all everyone has their price!! And without trying to generalize too much these people did not have the income of Brad Pit!! (someone else who would not have heard of Banksy at the time) All I am trying to say is that if you can't see the problem with flippers and you want to know when it becomes acceptable to sell a print, well mate IMO flippers are the fucking scum of the earth, they are basically robbing a chance of a genuine 'fan' who is working within a budget and selling to the same fan who has to commit far more money than he would like to own something that he/she cares deeply about. That my friend is playing on peoples emotions and disgusts me in every way imaginable. There are members on here who have sold prints far below market price, there are members on here who didn't want a copy of certain prints (GIWTBB for example) who got one in their basket, contacted another member and helped them secure the print at cost when they could easily have bought and flipped for a quick profit!! I know as it has happened to me (Big up Fearkiller) These are the people I respect and who I like to associate with, this is a family of types which unfortunately is permanently exposed to public scrutiny by lurkers, baggers and flippers, we are our own worse enemy at times but at the end of the day we generally all feel the same way about the scum who take from us the chance to enjoy our communal interest! Here endeth the lesson! ;D
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Bad Man, by buster on Nov 5, 2007 10:18:17 GMT 1, Well put PUD, nicely rationalised from the rant it could have been.
Well put PUD, nicely rationalised from the rant it could have been.
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Bad Man, by mwjm0 on Nov 5, 2007 10:18:49 GMT 1, what a sorry bunch of snitches. i hope POW send the guy the print. i would be amazed if they didn't. just because you would have kept it and hung it on the wall does not entitle you to make judgements and decisions on what others should do. there's a lot more to be angry about than some guy getting lucky and making a profit. why would POW be bothered whether the guy sold it tomorrow or in twelve months? what difference does whether he has the print or not make if someone is willing to buy it off him? mwjm0, nothing personal mate as you are fully entitled to an opinion, without it this forum would not exist!! BUT I am guessing you didn't stand in the Queue at Lazarides for 10 hours waiting to buy a print to hang on your wall, whilst watching some fat c**t and his wife and his 3 kids walk out of the shop with 20 prints with no love for the art whatsoever just a simple motivation of greed!? I still haven't bought one of these prints as I was so disgusted at the openness of the piss take going on! prints were listed on ebay at 3 times the original price whilst I was still stood in a piss filled alley with no hope of getting a copy because of the flippers. The amount that have appeared on Ebay since the release would have easily catered for those in the Queue who genuinely wanted a print to hang on their wall!!!!! Iwill NEVER buy from anyone openly flipping a print that I had been after, I have tried to obtain a copy of all of the LA series release to date from POW without success (until now that is with a signed Trolleys) but I still refuse to buy Grannies, Morons or Applause from the Bay. I HAVE however bought other Banksy prints from Ebay including a signed WSM, a signed Police Kids, unsigned Bombhugger and unsigned Flying Copper. The reason I find these acceptable to buy is because they were pre LA prints, the people who bought them generally bought them because they admired Banksy's work, they did not buy them knowing that they would be worth 10/20/30 times their initial price within a couple of years. Once they were worth this sort of money the temptation to sell became too much, after all everyone has their price!! And without trying to generalize too much these people did not have the income of Brad Pit!! (someone else who would not have heard of Banksy at the time) All I am trying to say is that if you can't see the problem with flippers and you want to know when it becomes acceptable to sell a print, well mate IMO flippers are the f**king scum of the earth, they are basically robbing a chance of a genuine 'fan' who is working within a budget and selling to the same fan who has to commit far more money than he would like to own something that he/she cares deeply about. That my friend is playing on peoples emotions and disgusts me in every way imaginable. There are members on here who have sold prints far below market price, there are members on here who didn't want a copy of certain prints (GIWTBB for example) who got one in their basket, contacted another member and helped them secure the print at cost when they could easily have bought and flipped for a quick profit!! I know as it has happened to me (Big up Fearkiller) These are the people I respect and who I like to associate with, this is a family of types which unfortunately is permanently exposed to public scrutiny by lurkers, baggers and flippers, we are our own worse enemy at times but at the end of the day we generally all feel the same way about the scum who take from us the chance to enjoy our communal interest! Here endeth the lesson! ;D
i agree. i was just angry at the hypocrisy of singling 1 guy out of hundreds to make a post about and target. i think its unfair targetting individuals when the problem is widespread. there have been enough of posts like this for POW to see and do something if they wanted to stop it but they don't.
what a sorry bunch of snitches. i hope POW send the guy the print. i would be amazed if they didn't. just because you would have kept it and hung it on the wall does not entitle you to make judgements and decisions on what others should do. there's a lot more to be angry about than some guy getting lucky and making a profit. why would POW be bothered whether the guy sold it tomorrow or in twelve months? what difference does whether he has the print or not make if someone is willing to buy it off him? mwjm0, nothing personal mate as you are fully entitled to an opinion, without it this forum would not exist!! BUT I am guessing you didn't stand in the Queue at Lazarides for 10 hours waiting to buy a print to hang on your wall, whilst watching some fat c**t and his wife and his 3 kids walk out of the shop with 20 prints with no love for the art whatsoever just a simple motivation of greed!? I still haven't bought one of these prints as I was so disgusted at the openness of the piss take going on! prints were listed on ebay at 3 times the original price whilst I was still stood in a piss filled alley with no hope of getting a copy because of the flippers. The amount that have appeared on Ebay since the release would have easily catered for those in the Queue who genuinely wanted a print to hang on their wall!!!!! Iwill NEVER buy from anyone openly flipping a print that I had been after, I have tried to obtain a copy of all of the LA series release to date from POW without success (until now that is with a signed Trolleys) but I still refuse to buy Grannies, Morons or Applause from the Bay. I HAVE however bought other Banksy prints from Ebay including a signed WSM, a signed Police Kids, unsigned Bombhugger and unsigned Flying Copper. The reason I find these acceptable to buy is because they were pre LA prints, the people who bought them generally bought them because they admired Banksy's work, they did not buy them knowing that they would be worth 10/20/30 times their initial price within a couple of years. Once they were worth this sort of money the temptation to sell became too much, after all everyone has their price!! And without trying to generalize too much these people did not have the income of Brad Pit!! (someone else who would not have heard of Banksy at the time) All I am trying to say is that if you can't see the problem with flippers and you want to know when it becomes acceptable to sell a print, well mate IMO flippers are the f**king scum of the earth, they are basically robbing a chance of a genuine 'fan' who is working within a budget and selling to the same fan who has to commit far more money than he would like to own something that he/she cares deeply about. That my friend is playing on peoples emotions and disgusts me in every way imaginable. There are members on here who have sold prints far below market price, there are members on here who didn't want a copy of certain prints (GIWTBB for example) who got one in their basket, contacted another member and helped them secure the print at cost when they could easily have bought and flipped for a quick profit!! I know as it has happened to me (Big up Fearkiller) These are the people I respect and who I like to associate with, this is a family of types which unfortunately is permanently exposed to public scrutiny by lurkers, baggers and flippers, we are our own worse enemy at times but at the end of the day we generally all feel the same way about the scum who take from us the chance to enjoy our communal interest! Here endeth the lesson! ;D i agree. i was just angry at the hypocrisy of singling 1 guy out of hundreds to make a post about and target. i think its unfair targetting individuals when the problem is widespread. there have been enough of posts like this for POW to see and do something if they wanted to stop it but they don't.
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Bad Man, by leehambly on Nov 5, 2007 10:30:43 GMT 1, I think he made himself a target by identifying himself. Put a face to it, much like the fat bloke and his kids at the Laz debacle... any one of the other people in the queue could have been flippers but the pure bare faced, unabashed cynical cheek of it is going to attract attention. Shame, blame and flame, I say.
I think he made himself a target by identifying himself. Put a face to it, much like the fat bloke and his kids at the Laz debacle... any one of the other people in the queue could have been flippers but the pure bare faced, unabashed cynical cheek of it is going to attract attention. Shame, blame and flame, I say.
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Bad Man, by jonpud on Nov 5, 2007 10:45:26 GMT 1, Fair enough mate, it was nothing personal!!
Problem is that seller made a fatal mistake, he/she advertised the issue number of the print, something that no other flipper has done to my knowledge, without knowing the number 'we' can only rant about flippers in general. This individual made him/herself an open target!!
Sorry but if you live the life of a flipper then expect the backlash that comes with it!!
Unlike yourself I hope that POW don't forward him his print! However I don't realy see how they can't, it isn't in the terms and conditions of sale, and I think that now they have accepted his money a contract to deliver services would now be in place!!
Fair enough mate, it was nothing personal!! Problem is that seller made a fatal mistake, he/she advertised the issue number of the print, something that no other flipper has done to my knowledge, without knowing the number 'we' can only rant about flippers in general. This individual made him/herself an open target!! Sorry but if you live the life of a flipper then expect the backlash that comes with it!! Unlike yourself I hope that POW don't forward him his print! However I don't realy see how they can't, it isn't in the terms and conditions of sale, and I think that now they have accepted his money a contract to deliver services would now be in place!!
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Bad Man, by jonpud on Nov 5, 2007 10:47:46 GMT 1, I think he made himself a target by identifying himself. Put a face to it, much like the fat bloke and his kids at the Laz debacle... any one of the other people in the queue could have been flippers but the pure bare faced, unabashed cynical cheek of it is going to attract attention. Shame, blame and flame, I say.
Burning is a little extreme, however I fully agree with your opinion! ;D
I think he made himself a target by identifying himself. Put a face to it, much like the fat bloke and his kids at the Laz debacle... any one of the other people in the queue could have been flippers but the pure bare faced, unabashed cynical cheek of it is going to attract attention. Shame, blame and flame, I say. Burning is a little extreme, however I fully agree with your opinion! ;D
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