jcjcjc
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Posts โข 40
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October 2007
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Bad Man, by jcjcjc on Nov 5, 2007 15:15:55 GMT 1, I don't understand why everyone is banging on about "flippers". Take a look around you......it goes on everywhere. And let's face it, most of these flippers would be damn lucky to ever bag another anyway. Just look at how many hard core fans have been trying and failed. As for why they do it, it's always money and the money is there because fans think it is worth paying (I'm making no judgements here about what the profits are needed for, we don't know and it's none of our business). If we all decided that we would never pay any more than the original purchase price, the market would only contain art lovers but lets face it, if you paid ยฃ150 for a print 4 years ago and you could get ยฃ6K, I'm sure most of you don't want that to happen either. So with most things in life.....we need to just live with it. Good things don't stay underground for long and our reward for being in early is that we should have been able to buy at sensible prices. Why not leave it at that and move on? So as a result of your defeatest point of view, maybe you'd endorse POW releasing Banksy prints are true market value? At least then someone deserving could have his pockets lined.
It's not defeatest, just pragmatic. What do you prefer, POW release all prints at true market value or as now where the prints are discounted and some (not a lot) are bagged by flippers???
I know what I prefer.......
I don't understand why everyone is banging on about "flippers". Take a look around you......it goes on everywhere. And let's face it, most of these flippers would be damn lucky to ever bag another anyway. Just look at how many hard core fans have been trying and failed. As for why they do it, it's always money and the money is there because fans think it is worth paying (I'm making no judgements here about what the profits are needed for, we don't know and it's none of our business). If we all decided that we would never pay any more than the original purchase price, the market would only contain art lovers but lets face it, if you paid ยฃ150 for a print 4 years ago and you could get ยฃ6K, I'm sure most of you don't want that to happen either. So with most things in life.....we need to just live with it. Good things don't stay underground for long and our reward for being in early is that we should have been able to buy at sensible prices. Why not leave it at that and move on? So as a result of your defeatest point of view, maybe you'd endorse POW releasing Banksy prints are true market value? At least then someone deserving could have his pockets lined. It's not defeatest, just pragmatic. What do you prefer, POW release all prints at true market value or as now where the prints are discounted and some (not a lot) are bagged by flippers??? I know what I prefer.......
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Bad Man, by ricosg11 on Nov 5, 2007 15:18:58 GMT 1, I don't understand why everyone is banging on about "flippers". Take a look around you......it goes on everywhere. And let's face it, most of these flippers would be damn lucky to ever bag another anyway. Just look at how many hard core fans have been trying and failed. As for why they do it, it's always money and the money is there because fans think it is worth paying (I'm making no judgements here about what the profits are needed for, we don't know and it's none of our business). If we all decided that we would never pay any more than the original purchase price, the market would only contain art lovers but lets face it, if you paid ยฃ150 for a print 4 years ago and you could get ยฃ6K, I'm sure most of you don't want that to happen either. So with most things in life.....we need to just live with it. Good things don't stay underground for long and our reward for being in early is that we should have been able to buy at sensible prices. Why not leave it at that and move on?
Very well put.
I don't understand why everyone is banging on about "flippers". Take a look around you......it goes on everywhere. And let's face it, most of these flippers would be damn lucky to ever bag another anyway. Just look at how many hard core fans have been trying and failed. As for why they do it, it's always money and the money is there because fans think it is worth paying (I'm making no judgements here about what the profits are needed for, we don't know and it's none of our business). If we all decided that we would never pay any more than the original purchase price, the market would only contain art lovers but lets face it, if you paid ยฃ150 for a print 4 years ago and you could get ยฃ6K, I'm sure most of you don't want that to happen either. So with most things in life.....we need to just live with it. Good things don't stay underground for long and our reward for being in early is that we should have been able to buy at sensible prices. Why not leave it at that and move on? Very well put.
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Bad Man, by dave313perry on Nov 5, 2007 15:21:54 GMT 1, wow - this threads still going!!
going nowhere i might add
wow - this threads still going!!
going nowhere i might add
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shavemysoul
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Posts โข 537
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July 2007
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Bad Man, by shavemysoul on Nov 5, 2007 15:22:53 GMT 1, Ok, I admit, getting personal and talking about his details is below the belt and shouldn't be done. But to suggest he shouldn't have his print withdrawn? I think some of this board has lost its sensabilities. My point was that I personally feel uneasy about targeting an individual after they have bought the print. I'm also, like a good few others here, pro-lottery when it comes to limited edition prints. Sell them like Wimbledon tickets.
Like I said, I'm against targeting the individual in themselves (don't wanna know anything about them), but where, as in this case, they've made a cock-up and given away the details of their print, I would be dissapointed if anything other than him not getting his print happened.
I don't want to judge him in who he is (his education, etc.). I just think that it goes against what POW are trying honourably to do, not to stop flippers where it can be done.
Ok, I admit, getting personal and talking about his details is below the belt and shouldn't be done. But to suggest he shouldn't have his print withdrawn? I think some of this board has lost its sensabilities. My point was that I personally feel uneasy about targeting an individual after they have bought the print. I'm also, like a good few others here, pro-lottery when it comes to limited edition prints. Sell them like Wimbledon tickets. Like I said, I'm against targeting the individual in themselves (don't wanna know anything about them), but where, as in this case, they've made a cock-up and given away the details of their print, I would be dissapointed if anything other than him not getting his print happened. I don't want to judge him in who he is (his education, etc.). I just think that it goes against what POW are trying honourably to do, not to stop flippers where it can be done.
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tomdc85
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Posts โข 42
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October 2007
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Bad Man, by tomdc85 on Nov 5, 2007 15:27:40 GMT 1, Like I said, I'm against targeting the individual in themselves (don't wanna know anything about them), but where, as in this case, they've made a c**k-up and given away the details of their print, I would be dissapointed if anything other than him not getting his print happened. I don't want to judge him in who he is (his education, etc.). I just think that it goes against what POW are trying honourably to do, not to stop flippers where it can be done. But surely all POW need is a name, not a print number? And surely you can get that for any of the sellers on ebay without too much fuss? And surely you could tell POW and they could withold the print of any of those sellers?
So why this particular chump?
Like I said, I'm against targeting the individual in themselves (don't wanna know anything about them), but where, as in this case, they've made a c**k-up and given away the details of their print, I would be dissapointed if anything other than him not getting his print happened. I don't want to judge him in who he is (his education, etc.). I just think that it goes against what POW are trying honourably to do, not to stop flippers where it can be done. But surely all POW need is a name, not a print number? And surely you can get that for any of the sellers on ebay without too much fuss? And surely you could tell POW and they could withold the print of any of those sellers? So why this particular chump?
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savilerogue
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Posts โข 326
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August 2007
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Bad Man, by savilerogue on Nov 5, 2007 15:32:22 GMT 1, I can't believe this thread is so long.
The seller's a tout cunt, and a stupid tout cunt at that. I won't be losing any sleep over whether he gets his print or not.
I can't believe this thread is so long.
The seller's a tout cunt, and a stupid tout cunt at that. I won't be losing any sleep over whether he gets his print or not.
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shavemysoul
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Posts โข 537
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July 2007
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Bad Man, by shavemysoul on Nov 5, 2007 15:35:54 GMT 1, Like I said, I'm against targeting the individual in themselves (don't wanna know anything about them), but where, as in this case, they've made a c**k-up and given away the details of their print, I would be dissapointed if anything other than him not getting his print happened. I don't want to judge him in who he is (his education, etc.). I just think that it goes against what POW are trying honourably to do, not to stop flippers where it can be done. But surely all POW need is a name, not a print number? And surely you can get that for any of the sellers on ebay without too much fuss? And surely you could tell POW and they could withold the print of any of those sellers? So why this particular chump?
I believe, in theory, it's not quite so easy to block sales where a seller witholds their print number. I presume, that flippers withold the number until the sale has been finalised. By then, you've entered a contract and its muddy water as to the rights of a 'buyer' to pull out.
With this person, they made their number freely available. It's a different case. All it would take is for POW to check the number against his address and name (which is evident from his user) and they could block the sale in a minute or two.
In theory though, I agree, it'd be nice if POW could block everyone's sales. I'm not sure they see that as worth their time and effort though which is their decision.
Like I said, I'm against targeting the individual in themselves (don't wanna know anything about them), but where, as in this case, they've made a c**k-up and given away the details of their print, I would be dissapointed if anything other than him not getting his print happened. I don't want to judge him in who he is (his education, etc.). I just think that it goes against what POW are trying honourably to do, not to stop flippers where it can be done. But surely all POW need is a name, not a print number? And surely you can get that for any of the sellers on ebay without too much fuss? And surely you could tell POW and they could withold the print of any of those sellers? So why this particular chump? I believe, in theory, it's not quite so easy to block sales where a seller witholds their print number. I presume, that flippers withold the number until the sale has been finalised. By then, you've entered a contract and its muddy water as to the rights of a 'buyer' to pull out. With this person, they made their number freely available. It's a different case. All it would take is for POW to check the number against his address and name (which is evident from his user) and they could block the sale in a minute or two. In theory though, I agree, it'd be nice if POW could block everyone's sales. I'm not sure they see that as worth their time and effort though which is their decision.
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loucastel
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,551
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October 2007
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Bad Man, by loucastel on Nov 5, 2007 16:49:34 GMT 1, Money definately doesnt dictate who can own art, if is only about some specific image you can go onto the net download any image you like ,get it blown up onto canvas and voila, I think the real issue here is ,I have a picture with a signaure on it or whatever, its all about owning the real thing, Im sure most people on here have a specific picture they would like to own but because they havent got millions , mmm be nice to have that original Piccasso I have been saving up for.
Money definately doesnt dictate who can own art, if is only about some specific image you can go onto the net download any image you like ,get it blown up onto canvas and voila, I think the real issue here is ,I have a picture with a signaure on it or whatever, its all about owning the real thing, Im sure most people on here have a specific picture they would like to own but because they havent got millions , mmm be nice to have that original Piccasso I have been saving up for.
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tomdc85
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Posts โข 42
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October 2007
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Bad Man, by tomdc85 on Nov 5, 2007 16:58:19 GMT 1, mmm be nice to have that original Piccasso I have been saving up for. I had an original Picasso on my wall! My uni let you rent artwork for a term at a time, and they had some pencil sketches by Picasso. Don't think it was worth a particularly great deal, but it looked ace and was totally a babe magnet (or not). Only cost me a fiver too.
mmm be nice to have that original Piccasso I have been saving up for. I had an original Picasso on my wall! My uni let you rent artwork for a term at a time, and they had some pencil sketches by Picasso. Don't think it was worth a particularly great deal, but it looked ace and was totally a babe magnet (or not). Only cost me a fiver too.
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loucastel
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,551
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October 2007
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Bad Man, by loucastel on Nov 5, 2007 17:03:02 GMT 1, mmm be nice to have that original Piccasso I have been saving up for. I had an original Picasso on my wall! My uni let you rent artwork for a term at a time, and they had some pencil sketches by Picasso. Don't think it was worth a particularly great deal, but it looked ace and was totally a babe magnet (or not). Only cost me a fiver too. wow way to go,do you think they would lend me one of his blue lady's?, I think we should turn this thread into what peice of art you would buy if money was no object, lol
mmm be nice to have that original Piccasso I have been saving up for. I had an original Picasso on my wall! My uni let you rent artwork for a term at a time, and they had some pencil sketches by Picasso. Don't think it was worth a particularly great deal, but it looked ace and was totally a babe magnet (or not). Only cost me a fiver too. wow way to go,do you think they would lend me one of his blue lady's?, I think we should turn this thread into what peice of art you would buy if money was no object, lol
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Bad Man, by leehambly on Nov 5, 2007 17:09:05 GMT 1, mmm be nice to have that original Piccasso I have been saving up for. I had an original Picasso on my wall! My uni let you rent artwork for a term at a time, and they had some pencil sketches by Picasso. Don't think it was worth a particularly great deal, but it looked ace and was totally a babe magnet (or not). Only cost me a fiver too.
f**k mine, where's Paul Calf when you need one... he could say it so much better than I ever could. I hope you do something worthy with your life Tom, to be fair if my college had done something like that the SU would have been a ghost town at the end of fresher's week. We were smoking the carpet underlay by wednesday afternoon.
mmm be nice to have that original Piccasso I have been saving up for. I had an original Picasso on my wall! My uni let you rent artwork for a term at a time, and they had some pencil sketches by Picasso. Don't think it was worth a particularly great deal, but it looked ace and was totally a babe magnet (or not). Only cost me a fiver too. f**k mine, where's Paul Calf when you need one... he could say it so much better than I ever could. I hope you do something worthy with your life Tom, to be fair if my college had done something like that the SU would have been a ghost town at the end of fresher's week. We were smoking the carpet underlay by wednesday afternoon.
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kronoopus
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Posts โข 859
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October 2006
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Bad Man, by kronoopus on Nov 5, 2007 17:12:11 GMT 1, Points to ponder..............
Would everyone be making such a fuss if it wasn't a signed Banksy? Or any other number of artists out there? I get it that no one has them in hand. By the way as per ebay rules you can sell "pre-order" items as long as it is within 30 days of item ending, and it is clearly stated, but of course no one here knows exactly when they will go out...........So, he is busted on that.
It is always about the money, and for those of you who really collect it is about the "value" of the print. By the way, there will always be "a next print". As if anyone here doesn't already know. Maybe?
Points to ponder..............
Would everyone be making such a fuss if it wasn't a signed Banksy? Or any other number of artists out there? I get it that no one has them in hand. By the way as per ebay rules you can sell "pre-order" items as long as it is within 30 days of item ending, and it is clearly stated, but of course no one here knows exactly when they will go out...........So, he is busted on that.
It is always about the money, and for those of you who really collect it is about the "value" of the print. By the way, there will always be "a next print". As if anyone here doesn't already know. Maybe?
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tomdc85
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Posts โข 42
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October 2007
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Bad Man, by tomdc85 on Nov 5, 2007 17:17:51 GMT 1, but of course no one here knows exactly when they will go out...........So, he is busted on that. I emailed Dora and she reckoned about two weeks after sale (at least for the coloured ones). Optimistic? Probably.
but of course no one here knows exactly when they will go out...........So, he is busted on that. I emailed Dora and she reckoned about two weeks after sale (at least for the coloured ones). Optimistic? Probably.
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