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Bad Man, by mwjm0 on Nov 5, 2007 10:48:17 GMT 1, i agree. i was just angry at the hypocrisy of singling 1 guy out of hundreds to make a post about and target. i think its unfair targetting individuals when the problem is widespread. there have been enough of posts like this for POW to see and do something if they wanted to stop it but they don't.
and i don't think POW should do anything either. if it got to the point where POW went all 'gallery' and had waiting lists and preferred customers and gave advanced warning to select groups then i would be p**sed off. i like feeling like i have as equal a chance of getting a print as the next man, flipper or not.
i agree. i was just angry at the hypocrisy of singling 1 guy out of hundreds to make a post about and target. i think its unfair targetting individuals when the problem is widespread. there have been enough of posts like this for POW to see and do something if they wanted to stop it but they don't. and i don't think POW should do anything either. if it got to the point where POW went all 'gallery' and had waiting lists and preferred customers and gave advanced warning to select groups then i would be p**sed off. i like feeling like i have as equal a chance of getting a print as the next man, flipper or not.
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Bad Man, by jonpud on Nov 5, 2007 10:54:35 GMT 1, i agree. i was just angry at the hypocrisy of singling 1 guy out of hundreds to make a post about and target. i think its unfair targetting individuals when the problem is widespread. there have been enough of posts like this for POW to see and do something if they wanted to stop it but they don't. and i don't think POW should do anything either. if it got to the point where POW went all 'gallery' and had waiting lists and preferred customers and gave advanced warning to select groups then i would be p**sed off. i like feeling like i have as equal a chance of getting a print as the next man, flipper or not. Agreed to a point, but blatant flippers should be banned from future purchases, giving YOU the more deserving buyer a 'better' equal chance!!
i agree. i was just angry at the hypocrisy of singling 1 guy out of hundreds to make a post about and target. i think its unfair targetting individuals when the problem is widespread. there have been enough of posts like this for POW to see and do something if they wanted to stop it but they don't. and i don't think POW should do anything either. if it got to the point where POW went all 'gallery' and had waiting lists and preferred customers and gave advanced warning to select groups then i would be p**sed off. i like feeling like i have as equal a chance of getting a print as the next man, flipper or not. Agreed to a point, but blatant flippers should be banned from future purchases, giving YOU the more deserving buyer a 'better' equal chance!!
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Bad Man, by mwjm0 on Nov 5, 2007 10:59:14 GMT 1, and i don't think POW should do anything either. if it got to the point where POW went all 'gallery' and had waiting lists and preferred customers and gave advanced warning to select groups then i would be p**sed off. i like feeling like i have as equal a chance of getting a print as the next man, flipper or not. Agreed to a point, but blatant flippers should be banned from future purchases, giving YOU the more deserving buyer a 'better' equal chance!!
i just feel there are so many people trying to get the prints to keep and hang anyway that even if all the flippers were banned it would still be ridiculously hard to get a print.
and i don't think POW should do anything either. if it got to the point where POW went all 'gallery' and had waiting lists and preferred customers and gave advanced warning to select groups then i would be p**sed off. i like feeling like i have as equal a chance of getting a print as the next man, flipper or not. Agreed to a point, but blatant flippers should be banned from future purchases, giving YOU the more deserving buyer a 'better' equal chance!! i just feel there are so many people trying to get the prints to keep and hang anyway that even if all the flippers were banned it would still be ridiculously hard to get a print.
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Bad Man, by jonpud on Nov 5, 2007 11:03:50 GMT 1, Agreed to a point, but blatant flippers should be banned from future purchases, giving YOU the more deserving buyer a 'better' equal chance!! i just feel there are so many people trying to get the prints to keep and hang anyway that even if all the flippers were banned it would still be ridiculously hard to get a print.
Agreed, but at least the 'right' people would own them in the first place! And for every genuine fan there must be half a flipper, there must be more genuine buyers than flippers as I doubt we will see half the sold editions on ebay!!
Likelyhood is up to a hundred signed colour prints will hit the bay and probably less than 20 signed B&W copies, so most will have gone to good homes!
Agreed to a point, but blatant flippers should be banned from future purchases, giving YOU the more deserving buyer a 'better' equal chance!! i just feel there are so many people trying to get the prints to keep and hang anyway that even if all the flippers were banned it would still be ridiculously hard to get a print. Agreed, but at least the 'right' people would own them in the first place! And for every genuine fan there must be half a flipper, there must be more genuine buyers than flippers as I doubt we will see half the sold editions on ebay!! Likelyhood is up to a hundred signed colour prints will hit the bay and probably less than 20 signed B&W copies, so most will have gone to good homes!
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Bad Man, by Jonny Breaks on Nov 5, 2007 11:07:34 GMT 1, Agreed to a point, but blatant flippers should be banned from future purchases, giving YOU the more deserving buyer a 'better' equal chance!! i just feel there are so many people trying to get the prints to keep and hang anyway that even if all the flippers were banned it would still be ridiculously hard to get a print.
It will now always be ridiculously hard to get a print but wouldnt you rather be fighting it out against other fan rather than the hoards of people in it for a fast buck?
I understand targetting one individual may seem harsh but if he is stupid enough to list his name and print number BEFORE he has the print in hand he deserves all he gets.
There is no way to stop them all but POW could send out a strong message that they will try to stop flippers if it is within their powers.
Agreed to a point, but blatant flippers should be banned from future purchases, giving YOU the more deserving buyer a 'better' equal chance!! i just feel there are so many people trying to get the prints to keep and hang anyway that even if all the flippers were banned it would still be ridiculously hard to get a print. It will now always be ridiculously hard to get a print but wouldnt you rather be fighting it out against other fan rather than the hoards of people in it for a fast buck? I understand targetting one individual may seem harsh but if he is stupid enough to list his name and print number BEFORE he has the print in hand he deserves all he gets. There is no way to stop them all but POW could send out a strong message that they will try to stop flippers if it is within their powers.
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pezlow
Junior Member
Posts โข 5,388
Likes โข 254
January 2007
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Bad Man, by pezlow on Nov 5, 2007 11:19:10 GMT 1, Yes they do buddy, they ban people for life sometimes, if they think someone is just taking the piss out of their attempt to provide affordable art. like who? who has been banned for life from POW? how could they possibly enforce a ban?
I know of a number of people who have had their print orders refunded because they flipped the print on ebay. POW do care about flippers and try as hard as they can to stop prints getting in to the hands of people who instantly flip them.
Yes they do buddy, they ban people for life sometimes, if they think someone is just taking the piss out of their attempt to provide affordable art. like who? who has been banned for life from POW? how could they possibly enforce a ban? I know of a number of people who have had their print orders refunded because they flipped the print on ebay. POW do care about flippers and try as hard as they can to stop prints getting in to the hands of people who instantly flip them.
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loucastel
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,551
Likes โข 53
October 2007
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Bad Man, by loucastel on Nov 5, 2007 11:42:07 GMT 1, If you look at it another way if you didnt have flippers and all the prints went to real "fans"anybody who didnt get one to start with wouldnt stand a snowball in hells chance ,as you would nevr get any coming on the open market, whereas putting them on ebay still gives people the chance to own one, albeit at an inflated price, but then again isnt that what happens every day in auctions all over the world? whether it be art or oranges it is still a commodity ,you dont have to like oranges to buy and sell them, at the end of the day it is his print, to do with as he wishes, I didnt get one, but im not about to slash my wrists over it.
If you look at it another way if you didnt have flippers and all the prints went to real "fans"anybody who didnt get one to start with wouldnt stand a snowball in hells chance ,as you would nevr get any coming on the open market, whereas putting them on ebay still gives people the chance to own one, albeit at an inflated price, but then again isnt that what happens every day in auctions all over the world? whether it be art or oranges it is still a commodity ,you dont have to like oranges to buy and sell them, at the end of the day it is his print, to do with as he wishes, I didnt get one, but im not about to slash my wrists over it.
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Bad Man, by jonpud on Nov 5, 2007 11:52:23 GMT 1, If you look at it another way if you didnt have flippers and all the prints went to real "fans"anybody who didnt get one to start with wouldnt stand a snowball in hells chance ,as you would nevr get any coming on the open market, whereas putting them on ebay still gives people the chance to own one, albeit at an inflated price, but then again isnt that what happens every day in auctions all over the world? whether it be art or oranges it is still a commodity ,you dont have to like oranges to buy and sell them, at the end of the day it is his print, to do with as he wishes, I didnt get one, but im not about to slash my wrists over it.
Fair point, and one that hadn't escaped my thoughts! Thing is I would love a signed 'Have A Nice Day' Don't think I have seen one in past two years, rightly so people who own them obviously want them and don't want to sell BUT one will become available at some point and when it does it will be with a premium, can't exactly call the seller a flipper though, can we!?
If you look at it another way if you didnt have flippers and all the prints went to real "fans"anybody who didnt get one to start with wouldnt stand a snowball in hells chance ,as you would nevr get any coming on the open market, whereas putting them on ebay still gives people the chance to own one, albeit at an inflated price, but then again isnt that what happens every day in auctions all over the world? whether it be art or oranges it is still a commodity ,you dont have to like oranges to buy and sell them, at the end of the day it is his print, to do with as he wishes, I didnt get one, but im not about to slash my wrists over it. Fair point, and one that hadn't escaped my thoughts! Thing is I would love a signed 'Have A Nice Day' Don't think I have seen one in past two years, rightly so people who own them obviously want them and don't want to sell BUT one will become available at some point and when it does it will be with a premium, can't exactly call the seller a flipper though, can we!?
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shavemysoul
New Member
Posts โข 537
Likes โข 0
July 2007
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Bad Man, by shavemysoul on Nov 5, 2007 11:52:57 GMT 1, Fair enough mate, it was nothing personal!! Problem is that seller made a fatal mistake, he/she advertised the issue number of the print, something that no other flipper has done to my knowledge, without knowing the number 'we' can only rant about flippers in general. This individual made him/herself an open target!! Sorry but if you live the life of a flipper then expect the backlash that comes with it!!Unlike yourself I hope that POW don't forward him his print! However I don't realy see how they can't, it isn't in the terms and conditions of sale, and I think that now they have accepted his money a contract to deliver services would now be in place!!
Fully agreed. I have to say, I do find it crazy that this flipper has been painted any sympathy.... how does he deserve it?
Fair enough mate, it was nothing personal!! Problem is that seller made a fatal mistake, he/she advertised the issue number of the print, something that no other flipper has done to my knowledge, without knowing the number 'we' can only rant about flippers in general. This individual made him/herself an open target!! Sorry but if you live the life of a flipper then expect the backlash that comes with it!!Unlike yourself I hope that POW don't forward him his print! However I don't realy see how they can't, it isn't in the terms and conditions of sale, and I think that now they have accepted his money a contract to deliver services would now be in place!! Fully agreed. I have to say, I do find it crazy that this flipper has been painted any sympathy.... how does he deserve it?
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Bad Man, by jonpud on Nov 5, 2007 11:56:58 GMT 1, Goes with the job!!
Goes with the job!!
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Bad Man, by dave313perry on Nov 5, 2007 11:59:30 GMT 1, Just recently been thinking about the old flipping discussion - and would like to point out...
Banksy has huge following of Hardcore fans, his demand is such that secondary market prices have risen due to the growing demand for is work, meaning its not flippers driving prices up, its the popularity of his work.
IMO - if Banksy's were bought only by real Fans with the wealth to be able to hold onto every purchase there would be next to nothing on the secondary market which would drive the prices up astronomically.
The fact that a set of people we section as flippers, purchase the prints like a ticket tout to sell on straight away, is only to the detriment of those that buy as a pure investment anyway, as weve seen in the recent Trolleys release. The first selling around 3k and due to undercutting to move the prints on quick they are now set around 1.9k-2k. If there were lesser flippers i reckon that there would have been a slower influx of prints to the Bay and a further increse on 3k rather than 'undercut after undercut'.
So if your not lucky enough to buy one straight from the source then if your sellfish then you should wish that flippers got hold of alot because the price on the secondary market will drop quickly.
just a thought because i know how frustrating it is seeing them on there after youve been trying for months!!!
peace
Just recently been thinking about the old flipping discussion - and would like to point out...
Banksy has huge following of Hardcore fans, his demand is such that secondary market prices have risen due to the growing demand for is work, meaning its not flippers driving prices up, its the popularity of his work.
IMO - if Banksy's were bought only by real Fans with the wealth to be able to hold onto every purchase there would be next to nothing on the secondary market which would drive the prices up astronomically.
The fact that a set of people we section as flippers, purchase the prints like a ticket tout to sell on straight away, is only to the detriment of those that buy as a pure investment anyway, as weve seen in the recent Trolleys release. The first selling around 3k and due to undercutting to move the prints on quick they are now set around 1.9k-2k. If there were lesser flippers i reckon that there would have been a slower influx of prints to the Bay and a further increse on 3k rather than 'undercut after undercut'.
So if your not lucky enough to buy one straight from the source then if your sellfish then you should wish that flippers got hold of alot because the price on the secondary market will drop quickly.
just a thought because i know how frustrating it is seeing them on there after youve been trying for months!!!
peace
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Bad Man, by ricosg11 on Nov 5, 2007 12:03:33 GMT 1, so youd pay 3000% more than face for a have a nice day because a real fan bought it over paying 3-400% 0ver face for a trolleys based on principle. Did I get that right? Would a real fan say, "hey wait, that is too much profit, let me hook up another fan."
so youd pay 3000% more than face for a have a nice day because a real fan bought it over paying 3-400% 0ver face for a trolleys based on principle. Did I get that right? Would a real fan say, "hey wait, that is too much profit, let me hook up another fan."
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tomdc85
New Member
Posts โข 42
Likes โข 0
October 2007
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Bad Man, by tomdc85 on Nov 5, 2007 12:18:46 GMT 1, Fully agreed. I have to say, I do find it crazy that this flipper has been painted any sympathy.... how does he deserve it? a) I don't know who he is. Maybe he has a dying Auntie in Cambodia and needs cash to save her. Unlikely, but still, I DON'T KNOW who he is and I'm not about to start dealing out moral judgement on people I don't know. b) Looking through his listings, it doesn't look like he has flipped prints before c) I personally would flip a signed b/w and buy an unsigned b/w, then use the left-overs to get more stuff (I have no titifreaks yet, and I would like one very much...)
Basically, I appreciate how some of you that have not only missed out on this print but on others feel wrathful, but I for one will not be emailing POW. If art is about principles as people above me keep saying, then grassing up some kid goes against mine.
Fully agreed. I have to say, I do find it crazy that this flipper has been painted any sympathy.... how does he deserve it? a) I don't know who he is. Maybe he has a dying Auntie in Cambodia and needs cash to save her. Unlikely, but still, I DON'T KNOW who he is and I'm not about to start dealing out moral judgement on people I don't know. b) Looking through his listings, it doesn't look like he has flipped prints before c) I personally would flip a signed b/w and buy an unsigned b/w, then use the left-overs to get more stuff (I have no titifreaks yet, and I would like one very much...) Basically, I appreciate how some of you that have not only missed out on this print but on others feel wrathful, but I for one will not be emailing POW. If art is about principles as people above me keep saying, then grassing up some kid goes against mine.
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Bad Man, by jonpud on Nov 5, 2007 12:25:12 GMT 1, so youd pay 3000% more than face for a have a nice day because a real fan bought it over paying 3-400% 0ver face for a trolleys based on principle. Did I get that right? Would a real fan say, "hey wait, that is too much profit, let me hook up another fan."
If your comment was aimed at me I'm not sure what you are getting at!?
But if you mean would I sooner pay 3000% over the original price for a signed HAND rather than 300% to a flipper for a Trolley print then the answer is yes!
The signed hand would have been bought originally for around ยฃ150 by someone who loved the piece of art, not by someone who wanted to make a 'next day' profit. Therefore I would far sooner hand over my hard earned to someone who 'accidentally' made a huge profit through appreciation of art rather than give it to someone who just wants to profit from my unfortunate love of art!!!!!!!
I can prove this as I traveled over 100 miles to buy a signed WSM for around 7K, the girl who owned it was genuinely gutted to sell as she had treated herself to it with her 18th Birthday money, but she needed a deposit for a house and the value just became to much to ignore. Yes it stung handing over that much money but it was the right price at the time, it would sting like a fat c**k in the arse to hand over ANY money to a flipper!!!! ;D
so youd pay 3000% more than face for a have a nice day because a real fan bought it over paying 3-400% 0ver face for a trolleys based on principle. Did I get that right? Would a real fan say, "hey wait, that is too much profit, let me hook up another fan." If your comment was aimed at me I'm not sure what you are getting at!? But if you mean would I sooner pay 3000% over the original price for a signed HAND rather than 300% to a flipper for a Trolley print then the answer is yes! The signed hand would have been bought originally for around ยฃ150 by someone who loved the piece of art, not by someone who wanted to make a 'next day' profit. Therefore I would far sooner hand over my hard earned to someone who 'accidentally' made a huge profit through appreciation of art rather than give it to someone who just wants to profit from my unfortunate love of art!!!!!!! I can prove this as I traveled over 100 miles to buy a signed WSM for around 7K, the girl who owned it was genuinely gutted to sell as she had treated herself to it with her 18th Birthday money, but she needed a deposit for a house and the value just became to much to ignore. Yes it stung handing over that much money but it was the right price at the time, it would sting like a fat c**k in the arse to hand over ANY money to a flipper!!!! ;D
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motor
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,836
Likes โข 409
December 2006
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Bad Man, by motor on Nov 5, 2007 12:25:15 GMT 1, Just recently been thinking about the old flipping discussion - and would like to point out... Banksy has huge following of Hardcore fans, his demand is such that secondary market prices have risen due to the growing demand for is work, meaning its not flippers driving prices up, its the popularity of his work. IMO - if Banksy's were bought only by real Fans with the wealth to be able to hold onto every purchase there would be next to nothing on the secondary market which would drive the prices up astronomically. The fact that a set of people we section as flippers, purchase the prints like a ticket tout to sell on straight away, is only to the detriment of those that buy as a pure investment anyway, as weve seen in the recent Trolleys release. The first selling around 3k and due to undercutting to move the prints on quick they are now set around 1.9k-2k. If there were lesser flippers i reckon that there would have been a slower influx of prints to the Bay and a further increse on 3k rather than 'undercut after undercut'. So if your not lucky enough to buy one straight from the source then if your sellfish then you should wish that flippers got hold of alot because the price on the secondary market will drop quickly. just a thought because i know how frustrating it is seeing them on there after youve been trying for months!!! peace
I was just thinking the same this morning... +
Just recently been thinking about the old flipping discussion - and would like to point out... Banksy has huge following of Hardcore fans, his demand is such that secondary market prices have risen due to the growing demand for is work, meaning its not flippers driving prices up, its the popularity of his work. IMO - if Banksy's were bought only by real Fans with the wealth to be able to hold onto every purchase there would be next to nothing on the secondary market which would drive the prices up astronomically. The fact that a set of people we section as flippers, purchase the prints like a ticket tout to sell on straight away, is only to the detriment of those that buy as a pure investment anyway, as weve seen in the recent Trolleys release. The first selling around 3k and due to undercutting to move the prints on quick they are now set around 1.9k-2k. If there were lesser flippers i reckon that there would have been a slower influx of prints to the Bay and a further increse on 3k rather than 'undercut after undercut'. So if your not lucky enough to buy one straight from the source then if your sellfish then you should wish that flippers got hold of alot because the price on the secondary market will drop quickly. just a thought because i know how frustrating it is seeing them on there after youve been trying for months!!! peace I was just thinking the same this morning... +
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Bad Man, by jonpud on Nov 5, 2007 12:33:20 GMT 1, Just recently been thinking about the old flipping discussion - and would like to point out... Banksy has huge following of Hardcore fans, his demand is such that secondary market prices have risen due to the growing demand for is work, meaning its not flippers driving prices up, its the popularity of his work. IMO - if Banksy's were bought only by real Fans with the wealth to be able to hold onto every purchase there would be next to nothing on the secondary market which would drive the prices up astronomically. The fact that a set of people we section as flippers, purchase the prints like a ticket tout to sell on straight away, is only to the detriment of those that buy as a pure investment anyway, as weve seen in the recent Trolleys release. The first selling around 3k and due to undercutting to move the prints on quick they are now set around 1.9k-2k. If there were lesser flippers i reckon that there would have been a slower influx of prints to the Bay and a further increse on 3k rather than 'undercut after undercut'. So if your not lucky enough to buy one straight from the source then if your sellfish then you should wish that flippers got hold of alot because the price on the secondary market will drop quickly. just a thought because i know how frustrating it is seeing them on there after youve been trying for months!!! peace "If you're selfish" Most important piece of that comment! The more there are flipping then yes the price gets driven down slightly, but who are the buyers? YOU AND ME! So we still pay an inflated price compared to all the prints going to genuine fans and ALL of them paying the release price!
Its not the benefit of having flippers under discussion, its the whole principle of flipping! You either think it's ok or it's not, I personally HATE it with a passion!
Just recently been thinking about the old flipping discussion - and would like to point out... Banksy has huge following of Hardcore fans, his demand is such that secondary market prices have risen due to the growing demand for is work, meaning its not flippers driving prices up, its the popularity of his work. IMO - if Banksy's were bought only by real Fans with the wealth to be able to hold onto every purchase there would be next to nothing on the secondary market which would drive the prices up astronomically. The fact that a set of people we section as flippers, purchase the prints like a ticket tout to sell on straight away, is only to the detriment of those that buy as a pure investment anyway, as weve seen in the recent Trolleys release. The first selling around 3k and due to undercutting to move the prints on quick they are now set around 1.9k-2k. If there were lesser flippers i reckon that there would have been a slower influx of prints to the Bay and a further increse on 3k rather than 'undercut after undercut'. So if your not lucky enough to buy one straight from the source then if your sellfish then you should wish that flippers got hold of alot because the price on the secondary market will drop quickly. just a thought because i know how frustrating it is seeing them on there after youve been trying for months!!! peace "If you're selfish" Most important piece of that comment! The more there are flipping then yes the price gets driven down slightly, but who are the buyers? YOU AND ME! So we still pay an inflated price compared to all the prints going to genuine fans and ALL of them paying the release price! Its not the benefit of having flippers under discussion, its the whole principle of flipping! You either think it's ok or it's not, I personally HATE it with a passion!
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Bad Man, by leehambly on Nov 5, 2007 12:37:50 GMT 1, If you look at it another way if you didnt have flippers and all the prints went to real "fans"anybody who didnt get one to start with wouldnt stand a snowball in hells chance ,as you would nevr get any coming on the open market, whereas putting them on ebay still gives people the chance to own one, albeit at an inflated price, but then again isnt that what happens every day in auctions all over the world? whether it be art or oranges it is still a commodity ,you dont have to like oranges to buy and sell them, at the end of the day it is his print, to do with as he wishes, I didnt get one, but im not about to slash my wrists over it.
It's arguable if there is or is not a smaller, greater or, indeed, any chance at all with a flipper for many of the hang on the wall buyers of these prints.
Statistically the hang on the wall buyer has about the same chance of getting one with or without flippers, but the right to "complete" now costs 3, 4, 5 even 8 times as much which prices most out of a chance altogether, which is totally against the premise of Pictures ON Walls (its in the name!).
in the first instance, with a given number of prints being sold at price ยฃX and a slightly variable (probably increasing in Banksy's case due to popularity, but also defined by the price ยฃX) amount of serious hang on the wall buyers there is a chance of getting one. If you add the flippers to the population this chance can only get smaller.
Now from the smaller population of "flipped" prints, being sold at price ยฃY there is arguably a smaller amount of serious hang on the wall buyers, so it is arguable that the "chance" in itself is increased, though this would depend on the remaining interested population and number of flipped prints. However, many of the previously potential buyers have "gone to the wall", so their chance is now 0, infinitely smaller than even the smallest chance they may have had before. Any remaining still interested buyers then fight over the scraps with the highest bidder winning, the chance of winning one of these is fairly incalcuable but regardless of how it is calculated, it is defined purely by currency. It is the very inflation itself involved that reduces the chance, often to nil. (This really doesn't sit well with the message behind much of the work. I'm having problems with this, but I'm sure I'll be ok!!!)
No matter what way you look at it: the flippers screw up the hang on the wall buyer chance of getting one. The secondary market is, imho, a totally different thing (as tastes, priorities and circumstances change), as it does offer a chance for new buyers and people that missed out on getting one. The sale value will always reflect demand though and this works both ways, as with anything second hand.
If you look at it another way if you didnt have flippers and all the prints went to real "fans"anybody who didnt get one to start with wouldnt stand a snowball in hells chance ,as you would nevr get any coming on the open market, whereas putting them on ebay still gives people the chance to own one, albeit at an inflated price, but then again isnt that what happens every day in auctions all over the world? whether it be art or oranges it is still a commodity ,you dont have to like oranges to buy and sell them, at the end of the day it is his print, to do with as he wishes, I didnt get one, but im not about to slash my wrists over it. It's arguable if there is or is not a smaller, greater or, indeed, any chance at all with a flipper for many of the hang on the wall buyers of these prints. Statistically the hang on the wall buyer has about the same chance of getting one with or without flippers, but the right to "complete" now costs 3, 4, 5 even 8 times as much which prices most out of a chance altogether, which is totally against the premise of Pictures ON Walls (its in the name!). in the first instance, with a given number of prints being sold at price ยฃX and a slightly variable (probably increasing in Banksy's case due to popularity, but also defined by the price ยฃX) amount of serious hang on the wall buyers there is a chance of getting one. If you add the flippers to the population this chance can only get smaller. Now from the smaller population of "flipped" prints, being sold at price ยฃY there is arguably a smaller amount of serious hang on the wall buyers, so it is arguable that the "chance" in itself is increased, though this would depend on the remaining interested population and number of flipped prints. However, many of the previously potential buyers have "gone to the wall", so their chance is now 0, infinitely smaller than even the smallest chance they may have had before. Any remaining still interested buyers then fight over the scraps with the highest bidder winning, the chance of winning one of these is fairly incalcuable but regardless of how it is calculated, it is defined purely by currency. It is the very inflation itself involved that reduces the chance, often to nil. (This really doesn't sit well with the message behind much of the work. I'm having problems with this, but I'm sure I'll be ok!!!) No matter what way you look at it: the flippers screw up the hang on the wall buyer chance of getting one. The secondary market is, imho, a totally different thing (as tastes, priorities and circumstances change), as it does offer a chance for new buyers and people that missed out on getting one. The sale value will always reflect demand though and this works both ways, as with anything second hand.
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Bad Man, by dave313perry on Nov 5, 2007 12:42:38 GMT 1, Sorry but the only answer to your problems is either Banksy to become as unpopular as Jade Goody (who i incidently heckled as she walked to some z-list celeb party on Saturday!!)
or unlimited print releases
If you hate flippers with such a passion then i suggest you should get out more! there is much more to art than putting a print on your wall - its all around you - and i live i the shithole that is the west midlands!!
and no im not flipping my signed trolleys, its just my thoughts that iv reached after pondering the issue for about 18months!
peace
Sorry but the only answer to your problems is either Banksy to become as unpopular as Jade Goody (who i incidently heckled as she walked to some z-list celeb party on Saturday!!)
or unlimited print releases
If you hate flippers with such a passion then i suggest you should get out more! there is much more to art than putting a print on your wall - its all around you - and i live i the shithole that is the west midlands!!
and no im not flipping my signed trolleys, its just my thoughts that iv reached after pondering the issue for about 18months!
peace
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Bad Man, by jonpud on Nov 5, 2007 12:46:56 GMT 1, Sorry but the only answer to your problems is either Banksy to become as unpopular as Jade Goody (who i incidently heckled as she walked to some z-list celeb party on Saturday!!) or unlimited print releases If you hate flippers with such a passion then i suggest you should get out more! there is much more to art than putting a print on your wall - its all around you - and i live i the s**thole that is the west midlands!! and no im not flipping my signed trolleys, its just my thoughts that iv reached after pondering the issue for about 18months! peace
Think you're right! I will get out more!
Peace
Sorry but the only answer to your problems is either Banksy to become as unpopular as Jade Goody (who i incidently heckled as she walked to some z-list celeb party on Saturday!!) or unlimited print releases If you hate flippers with such a passion then i suggest you should get out more! there is much more to art than putting a print on your wall - its all around you - and i live i the s**thole that is the west midlands!! and no im not flipping my signed trolleys, its just my thoughts that iv reached after pondering the issue for about 18months! peace Think you're right! I will get out more! Peace
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Bad Man, by dave313perry on Nov 5, 2007 12:49:18 GMT 1, Glad you didnt take that the wrong way!
i may also add that i heckled Nicki from big brother also... "who is she!!!!"
;D ;D ;D
Glad you didnt take that the wrong way!
i may also add that i heckled Nicki from big brother also... "who is she!!!!"
;D ;D ;D
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Montubu7
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,196
Likes โข 5
November 2006
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Bad Man, by Montubu7 on Nov 5, 2007 12:51:39 GMT 1, What kind of event attracted these stars to the midlands?
What kind of event attracted these stars to the midlands?
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motor
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,836
Likes โข 409
December 2006
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Bad Man, by motor on Nov 5, 2007 13:01:00 GMT 1, Don't really know if it's 100% related to this thread There is a growing demand in Banksy's work no doubt. As for the LA series prints POW are definitely counting Banksy fans and doing a good job I think. They're definitely giving people opportunity to own his work - even at 'these' times.
around Autumn 2006 there was around 2000 members here POW released: 150 signed Grannies 150 signed Applause
Spring 2007 - 3500 members: 450 Morons
Year later there is around 5000 and the releases are continuing to grow as well: 900 signed Trolleys
Don't really know if it's 100% related to this thread There is a growing demand in Banksy's work no doubt. As for the LA series prints POW are definitely counting Banksy fans and doing a good job I think. They're definitely giving people opportunity to own his work - even at 'these' times. around Autumn 2006 there was around 2000 members here POW released: 150 signed Grannies 150 signed Applause Spring 2007 - 3500 members: 450 Morons Year later there is around 5000 and the releases are continuing to grow as well: 900 signed Trolleys
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Bad Man, by leehambly on Nov 5, 2007 13:01:20 GMT 1, Glad you didnt take that the wrong way! i may also add that i heckled Nicki from big brother also... "who is she!!!!" ;D ;D ;D
Lol... very glad I refreshed... was just about to seek out a definition of "Forum" and start making a real t**t of myself. I'm probably the easiest person on the planet to wind up... all you need to say is: "let's agree to disagree". Grrr. No - here's the position: I'm right, you're wrong... let's argue the toss! Who knows, maybe by doing that you'll realise you were wrong... doesn't happen often... I'm alway happy to realise I was right but just wasn't expressing my opinion in the right way though!?
Fairly new to this forum, but have found it to be an excellent resource and opened my eyes to (who am I kidding? too old to get away with that... made me remember) a few things and type of people - very worthy.
Glad you didnt take that the wrong way! i may also add that i heckled Nicki from big brother also... "who is she!!!!" ;D ;D ;D Lol... very glad I refreshed... was just about to seek out a definition of "Forum" and start making a real t**t of myself. I'm probably the easiest person on the planet to wind up... all you need to say is: "let's agree to disagree". Grrr. No - here's the position: I'm right, you're wrong... let's argue the toss! Who knows, maybe by doing that you'll realise you were wrong... doesn't happen often... I'm alway happy to realise I was right but just wasn't expressing my opinion in the right way though!? Fairly new to this forum, but have found it to be an excellent resource and opened my eyes to (who am I kidding? too old to get away with that... made me remember) a few things and type of people - very worthy.
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Bad Man, by corblimeylimey on Nov 5, 2007 13:01:33 GMT 1, What kind of event attracted these stars to the midlands?
And why would you attend it? ;D ;D ;D
What kind of event attracted these stars to the midlands? And why would you attend it? ;D ;D ;D
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Bad Man, by numusic on Nov 5, 2007 13:07:14 GMT 1, Sorry but the only answer to your problems is either Banksy to become as unpopular as Jade Goody (who i incidently heckled as she walked to some z-list celeb party on Saturday!!) or unlimited print releases If you hate flippers with such a passion then i suggest you should get out more! there is much more to art than putting a print on your wall - its all around you - and i live i the s**thole that is the west midlands!! and no im not flipping my signed trolleys, its just my thoughts that iv reached after pondering the issue for about 18months! peace
All this flippin this flipping that talk... end of the day it's a principle thing right ? not restricted to prints and art or ticket touts or whatever.... it's the choices you make in your own life and how you contribute to the world outside your own little bubble that will define you to those outside your immediate family. I've got no time for touts and the principles that touting is based on..I think they're sad selfish fucks who get up in the morning with the sole intention of expoiting as many people as possible for personal gain. Fuck em, if the worse we can do is give em a slaggin on a forum, so be it.
Sorry but the only answer to your problems is either Banksy to become as unpopular as Jade Goody (who i incidently heckled as she walked to some z-list celeb party on Saturday!!) or unlimited print releases If you hate flippers with such a passion then i suggest you should get out more! there is much more to art than putting a print on your wall - its all around you - and i live i the s**thole that is the west midlands!! and no im not flipping my signed trolleys, its just my thoughts that iv reached after pondering the issue for about 18months! peace All this flippin this flipping that talk... end of the day it's a principle thing right ? not restricted to prints and art or ticket touts or whatever.... it's the choices you make in your own life and how you contribute to the world outside your own little bubble that will define you to those outside your immediate family. I've got no time for touts and the principles that touting is based on..I think they're sad selfish fucks who get up in the morning with the sole intention of expoiting as many people as possible for personal gain. Fuck em, if the worse we can do is give em a slaggin on a forum, so be it.
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Bad Man, by dave313perry on Nov 5, 2007 13:15:36 GMT 1, What kind of event attracted these stars to the midlands? And why would you attend it? ;D ;D ;D
lol - it was in London - i was on a Stag do at the SWAY comedy club???
and some red carpet bash was on next door - so we stood outside the pub over the road having a few jars and hurling abuse at any celebs we could recognise, good times!!!
As for the midlands the best we get is Lenny Henry and an occasional dose of the Halifax guy Howard! ;D
Edit : please not the very loose use of the term 'celeb'
What kind of event attracted these stars to the midlands? And why would you attend it? ;D ;D ;D lol - it was in London - i was on a Stag do at the SWAY comedy club??? and some red carpet bash was on next door - so we stood outside the pub over the road having a few jars and hurling abuse at any celebs we could recognise, good times!!! As for the midlands the best we get is Lenny Henry and an occasional dose of the Halifax guy Howard! ;D Edit : please not the very loose use of the term 'celeb'
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tomdc85
New Member
Posts โข 42
Likes โข 0
October 2007
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Bad Man, by tomdc85 on Nov 5, 2007 13:19:29 GMT 1, f**k em, if the worse we can do is give em a slaggin on a forum, so be it. I'd be cool with it if that WAS the worst people were doing, but it's not.
I'm pretty sure this person won't get their print because of emails sent by forum members. It'd be nice to think that POW would then put the print up for open sale again, but I really doubt they will - I don't think they want that kind of hassle again. It'll just 'disappear'.
I'm just not morally happy with what's happened here. Doesn't feel right. Maybe they were just looking for a quick buck and they are a money-obsessed scoundrel who cares nothing for the lives of others. Maybe (given their age and profile photo) they're a student who's just strapped for cash. Maybe (as I would do in the blink of an eye) they were going to trade down for an unsigned print. I don't know, and that's my point - nobody does, and I don't feel it's right to lynch some kid like this.
f**k em, if the worse we can do is give em a slaggin on a forum, so be it. I'd be cool with it if that WAS the worst people were doing, but it's not. I'm pretty sure this person won't get their print because of emails sent by forum members. It'd be nice to think that POW would then put the print up for open sale again, but I really doubt they will - I don't think they want that kind of hassle again. It'll just 'disappear'. I'm just not morally happy with what's happened here. Doesn't feel right. Maybe they were just looking for a quick buck and they are a money-obsessed scoundrel who cares nothing for the lives of others. Maybe (given their age and profile photo) they're a student who's just strapped for cash. Maybe (as I would do in the blink of an eye) they were going to trade down for an unsigned print. I don't know, and that's my point - nobody does, and I don't feel it's right to lynch some kid like this.
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Bad Man, by Jonny Breaks on Nov 5, 2007 13:29:11 GMT 1, f**k em, if the worse we can do is give em a slaggin on a forum, so be it. I'd be cool with it if that WAS the worst people were doing, but it's not. I'm pretty sure this person won't get their print because of emails sent by forum members. It'd be nice to think that POW would then put the print up for open sale again, but I really doubt they will - I don't think they want that kind of hassle again. It'll just 'disappear'. I'm just not morally happy with what's happened here. Doesn't feel right. Maybe they were just looking for a quick buck and they are a money-obsessed scoundrel who cares nothing for the lives of others. Maybe (given their age and profile photo) they're a student who's just strapped for cash. Maybe (as I would do in the blink of an eye) they were going to trade down for an unsigned print. I don't know, and that's my point - nobody does, and I don't feel it's right to lynch some kid like this.
Check out what he wears for college on his profile pic!!! Hardly think this guy is hard up...
f**k em, if the worse we can do is give em a slaggin on a forum, so be it. I'd be cool with it if that WAS the worst people were doing, but it's not. I'm pretty sure this person won't get their print because of emails sent by forum members. It'd be nice to think that POW would then put the print up for open sale again, but I really doubt they will - I don't think they want that kind of hassle again. It'll just 'disappear'. I'm just not morally happy with what's happened here. Doesn't feel right. Maybe they were just looking for a quick buck and they are a money-obsessed scoundrel who cares nothing for the lives of others. Maybe (given their age and profile photo) they're a student who's just strapped for cash. Maybe (as I would do in the blink of an eye) they were going to trade down for an unsigned print. I don't know, and that's my point - nobody does, and I don't feel it's right to lynch some kid like this. Check out what he wears for college on his profile pic!!! Hardly think this guy is hard up...
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tomdc85
New Member
Posts โข 42
Likes โข 0
October 2007
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Bad Man, by tomdc85 on Nov 5, 2007 13:31:24 GMT 1, Isn't that a university matriculation / graduation gown? n.b. I don't know much about these things, might be neither
Isn't that a university matriculation / graduation gown? n.b. I don't know much about these things, might be neither
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Bad Man, by numusic on Nov 5, 2007 13:32:32 GMT 1, f**k em, if the worse we can do is give em a slaggin on a forum, so be it. I'd be cool with it if that WAS the worst people were doing, but it's not. I'm pretty sure this person won't get their print because of emails sent by forum members. It'd be nice to think that POW would then put the print up for open sale again, but I really doubt they will - I don't think they want that kind of hassle again. It'll just 'disappear'. I'm just not morally happy with what's happened here. Doesn't feel right. Maybe they were just looking for a quick buck and they are a money-obsessed scoundrel who cares nothing for the lives of others. Maybe (given their age and profile photo) they're a student who's just strapped for cash. Maybe (as I would do in the blink of an eye) they were going to trade down for an unsigned print. I don't know, and that's my point - nobody does, and I don't feel it's right to lynch some kid like this.
I agree, two wrongs don't make a right.. I'm happy to vent on here about "general" issues, not knowing the individuals circumstances would deter me from making it a personal crusade.
f**k em, if the worse we can do is give em a slaggin on a forum, so be it. I'd be cool with it if that WAS the worst people were doing, but it's not. I'm pretty sure this person won't get their print because of emails sent by forum members. It'd be nice to think that POW would then put the print up for open sale again, but I really doubt they will - I don't think they want that kind of hassle again. It'll just 'disappear'. I'm just not morally happy with what's happened here. Doesn't feel right. Maybe they were just looking for a quick buck and they are a money-obsessed scoundrel who cares nothing for the lives of others. Maybe (given their age and profile photo) they're a student who's just strapped for cash. Maybe (as I would do in the blink of an eye) they were going to trade down for an unsigned print. I don't know, and that's my point - nobody does, and I don't feel it's right to lynch some kid like this. I agree, two wrongs don't make a right.. I'm happy to vent on here about "general" issues, not knowing the individuals circumstances would deter me from making it a personal crusade.
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