lee3
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November 2009
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Which Banksy for the Museum?, by lee3 on Sept 3, 2009 16:08:50 GMT 1, Improved Spot painting was available and a fine nod to Keep it spotless. I hope the museum gets to keep Monkey Paliament too.
Improved Spot painting was available and a fine nod to Keep it spotless. I hope the museum gets to keep Monkey Paliament too.
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lee3
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Banksy vs Parla @ Bonhams, by lee3 on Sept 2, 2009 16:44:41 GMT 1, >>> So perhaps they just can't find willing sellers right now and this is the best they can do?<<<
I suspect there is no lack of sellers given the economic climate facing us all. However, it's a September sale and the houses and sellers alike are going to save 90% of the quality for Oct/Nov. They'll pick out a handful of star items and try and push them into September by telling the consignors that they will be the stars of the show- which is true. The facts are that most of the September art wouldn't make it into the later sales save for the obvious pieces.
I believe most sellers would do better to wait a month when everyone's eyes are on the art market (though probably not a bad idea to be the one lone Banksy seller with that image after the Bristol show). I question the logic of placing these at the end of the sale and would love an education as to why? Nor do I have any idea how Christie's was able to convince the owner of a 22 inch Warhol flower painting to bring it under the hammer in September instead of November. Interesting times and what a contrast to a year (or 5) ago.
>>> So perhaps they just can't find willing sellers right now and this is the best they can do?<<<
I suspect there is no lack of sellers given the economic climate facing us all. However, it's a September sale and the houses and sellers alike are going to save 90% of the quality for Oct/Nov. They'll pick out a handful of star items and try and push them into September by telling the consignors that they will be the stars of the show- which is true. The facts are that most of the September art wouldn't make it into the later sales save for the obvious pieces.
I believe most sellers would do better to wait a month when everyone's eyes are on the art market (though probably not a bad idea to be the one lone Banksy seller with that image after the Bristol show). I question the logic of placing these at the end of the sale and would love an education as to why? Nor do I have any idea how Christie's was able to convince the owner of a 22 inch Warhol flower painting to bring it under the hammer in September instead of November. Interesting times and what a contrast to a year (or 5) ago.
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lee3
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Banksy vs Parla @ Bonhams, by lee3 on Sept 1, 2009 20:07:54 GMT 1, >>>Depends largely on the condition - if the Banksy is mint, then I would be surprised if it doesn't sell... <<<
The Banksy is in excellent condition and I was surprised to see that it was not from an edition (as I presumed it was from Existencilism but was wrong) though is listed as part of a series on the COA. I do not understand the mentality of saving the best for last as auctions grow tired in my experience and I've personally never stayed until the end of one I've attended in person. The September sales traditionally are weaker examples compared to their October/November counterparts. I concur they are the two strong lots in an otherwise forgettable sale. I will be shocked if either one does not sell unless the weakness that seems to be picking up in global marktes continues full force for the next 3 weeks.
I don't have a guess onthe Parla, my guess for the monkey would be a 50k hammer.
>>>Depends largely on the condition - if the Banksy is mint, then I would be surprised if it doesn't sell... <<<
The Banksy is in excellent condition and I was surprised to see that it was not from an edition (as I presumed it was from Existencilism but was wrong) though is listed as part of a series on the COA. I do not understand the mentality of saving the best for last as auctions grow tired in my experience and I've personally never stayed until the end of one I've attended in person. The September sales traditionally are weaker examples compared to their October/November counterparts. I concur they are the two strong lots in an otherwise forgettable sale. I will be shocked if either one does not sell unless the weakness that seems to be picking up in global marktes continues full force for the next 3 weeks.
I don't have a guess onthe Parla, my guess for the monkey would be a 50k hammer.
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lee3
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November 2009
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FS- Josh Keyes Originals, by lee3 on Aug 31, 2009 18:04:38 GMT 1, >>>why the vast difference in price and hype in this scene? <<<
My opinion is that unlike photorealism, people believe that the street/urban/graffiti movement could be the first legitimate movement to truly challenge the globe's perception of art since Pop. This version of this movement (as it obviously started decades ago) which is still in its infancy has artists from more continents than any previous movement and many share a central theme and yet their compositions are wildly different. If you believe that to be the case, then get used to the speculative fever because it's here to stay. I'm obviously sold on Banksy so my opionion has its own bias as to whether this "movement" produces one household name or 8 like Pop before it. A funnier twist is that I believe few of the legitimate contenders honestly care to be grouped together and would prefer to distance themselves from being labled or classified at all. Perhaps there is no movement and it's a flash in the pan, or maybe one or two names flourish, who knows?
My point above remains, I struggle to see how anyone groups Keyes in that movement regardless. I don't see the similarity at all unless the central theme you are suggesting is hype?
>>>why the vast difference in price and hype in this scene? <<<
My opinion is that unlike photorealism, people believe that the street/urban/graffiti movement could be the first legitimate movement to truly challenge the globe's perception of art since Pop. This version of this movement (as it obviously started decades ago) which is still in its infancy has artists from more continents than any previous movement and many share a central theme and yet their compositions are wildly different. If you believe that to be the case, then get used to the speculative fever because it's here to stay. I'm obviously sold on Banksy so my opionion has its own bias as to whether this "movement" produces one household name or 8 like Pop before it. A funnier twist is that I believe few of the legitimate contenders honestly care to be grouped together and would prefer to distance themselves from being labled or classified at all. Perhaps there is no movement and it's a flash in the pan, or maybe one or two names flourish, who knows?
My point above remains, I struggle to see how anyone groups Keyes in that movement regardless. I don't see the similarity at all unless the central theme you are suggesting is hype?
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lee3
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FS- Josh Keyes Originals, by lee3 on Aug 31, 2009 17:22:26 GMT 1, >>> Everyone here had to have one the second they found out they couldn't<<<
That's probably a nice combination of good marketing and great talent though I didn't know that was the case. There is one image of his that I had to own and that's not possible now so there is no rush from my vantage point as the others don't tug on my soul like that one.
>>>I can give you a laundry list of artists who have accomplishments like inclusion in the whitney biennial, permanent collection of the MoMA etc whose work of sim size goes for less/equal to Keyes aftermarket prices.<<<
And if I bought primarily because of what others thought of my collection as opposed to me, than this might carry more weight with me. To be honest, I'm glad my wife and I don't collect that way. I wanted an image and really didn't care who the artist was in this case (not to downplay Keyes' talents and accomplishments at all) as it resonated with me/us. That particular image gives me the kind of response I want on my walls and it wouldn't bother me at all to know I could have gotten "more for my money" if I looked at what other curators were buying instead.
>>> Everyone here had to have one the second they found out they couldn't<<<
That's probably a nice combination of good marketing and great talent though I didn't know that was the case. There is one image of his that I had to own and that's not possible now so there is no rush from my vantage point as the others don't tug on my soul like that one.
>>>I can give you a laundry list of artists who have accomplishments like inclusion in the whitney biennial, permanent collection of the MoMA etc whose work of sim size goes for less/equal to Keyes aftermarket prices.<<<
And if I bought primarily because of what others thought of my collection as opposed to me, than this might carry more weight with me. To be honest, I'm glad my wife and I don't collect that way. I wanted an image and really didn't care who the artist was in this case (not to downplay Keyes' talents and accomplishments at all) as it resonated with me/us. That particular image gives me the kind of response I want on my walls and it wouldn't bother me at all to know I could have gotten "more for my money" if I looked at what other curators were buying instead.
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lee3
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FS- Josh Keyes Originals, by lee3 on Aug 31, 2009 16:49:57 GMT 1, >>>I just find it amazing that still, some of these urban artists with short careers are vastly overpriced in comparison to their contemporary art peers. Is it naivety, hype or an underappreciation? <<<
I know very little about Keyes myself so pardon my ignorance, but how does one group him among the "urban/street/graffiti" genre?
>>>Is it naivety, hype or an underappreciation?<<<
In my case, though I'm not a collector of Keyes, it is naivety. I certainly don't get upset by the price tag associated with any artist. I'll admit that I wish Pollock were cheaper but there's more than enough great art to go around than for me to worry about whether or not someone is overpriced relative to a group of peers. You vote with your wallet but it's obvious given some of the venom in these threads that many do get quite angry. Perhaps passionate to the point of heated/defensive is a better way of putting it.
This hobby has helped me create my own sanctuary that I share with my family and friends which is not to suggest that one can't critique the merit or price tag of art/artists. But, let's be honest here, the VAST majority of art has a price tag sub 10k so it's not like this is all that rare.
Further, if (as I'm told) galleries are easily selling out of his work at 5 or 6k - it's not exactly a quantum leap to think that they might reach 10k soon or for others to speculate as such. You don't have to follow art very long to see that pattern play itself out ad nauseam. I've seen far more instances over the past 5 years of artists that I've never heard of (which is admittedly most artists) and galleries that I enjoy asking 20 to 50k for their wares and, gulp, many of those shows sell out. To me, this pales by comparison.
Lastly, this artist is creating compositions around a theme that provokes a passionate response to many people around the globe. He's doing so in a way that looks fresh to my eyes while also paying homage to artists (in certain compositions) that have come before him. I rarely see anything of the sort with a price tag sub 10k. Damn, after writing that I'm realizing I probably should have ponied up the extra dough, oh well.
>>>I just find it amazing that still, some of these urban artists with short careers are vastly overpriced in comparison to their contemporary art peers. Is it naivety, hype or an underappreciation? <<<
I know very little about Keyes myself so pardon my ignorance, but how does one group him among the "urban/street/graffiti" genre?
>>>Is it naivety, hype or an underappreciation?<<<
In my case, though I'm not a collector of Keyes, it is naivety. I certainly don't get upset by the price tag associated with any artist. I'll admit that I wish Pollock were cheaper but there's more than enough great art to go around than for me to worry about whether or not someone is overpriced relative to a group of peers. You vote with your wallet but it's obvious given some of the venom in these threads that many do get quite angry. Perhaps passionate to the point of heated/defensive is a better way of putting it.
This hobby has helped me create my own sanctuary that I share with my family and friends which is not to suggest that one can't critique the merit or price tag of art/artists. But, let's be honest here, the VAST majority of art has a price tag sub 10k so it's not like this is all that rare.
Further, if (as I'm told) galleries are easily selling out of his work at 5 or 6k - it's not exactly a quantum leap to think that they might reach 10k soon or for others to speculate as such. You don't have to follow art very long to see that pattern play itself out ad nauseam. I've seen far more instances over the past 5 years of artists that I've never heard of (which is admittedly most artists) and galleries that I enjoy asking 20 to 50k for their wares and, gulp, many of those shows sell out. To me, this pales by comparison.
Lastly, this artist is creating compositions around a theme that provokes a passionate response to many people around the globe. He's doing so in a way that looks fresh to my eyes while also paying homage to artists (in certain compositions) that have come before him. I rarely see anything of the sort with a price tag sub 10k. Damn, after writing that I'm realizing I probably should have ponied up the extra dough, oh well.
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lee3
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FS- Josh Keyes Originals, by lee3 on Aug 30, 2009 22:51:32 GMT 1, >>>And for 10k, you could get a painting of about the same size by say for one quick example Marcel Dzama who has a list of museum exhibitions and major acquisitions a mile long. Keyes pales in comparison so far.<<<
Or you might be able to land a hand signed print from thomas kincade, the famous painter of light. Who's to say who was right or wrong from a purchasing standpoint- us art snobs? I had a friend email me a similar comparison citing museum exhibitions and CV lengths for other artists at that price point. My reply was that I didn't care who painted scorch or what their resume looks like, i just liked the image for art's sake. At the end of the day, you buy art because you love it and want it in your home. To me, anything sub 10k is priced like decorative art (just price, not commenting on the merit of the art itself) and therefore highly speculative so you better love whatever you're buying at that level.
>>>And for 10k, you could get a painting of about the same size by say for one quick example Marcel Dzama who has a list of museum exhibitions and major acquisitions a mile long. Keyes pales in comparison so far.<<<
Or you might be able to land a hand signed print from thomas kincade, the famous painter of light. Who's to say who was right or wrong from a purchasing standpoint- us art snobs? I had a friend email me a similar comparison citing museum exhibitions and CV lengths for other artists at that price point. My reply was that I didn't care who painted scorch or what their resume looks like, i just liked the image for art's sake. At the end of the day, you buy art because you love it and want it in your home. To me, anything sub 10k is priced like decorative art (just price, not commenting on the merit of the art itself) and therefore highly speculative so you better love whatever you're buying at that level.
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lee3
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FS- Josh Keyes Originals, by lee3 on Aug 30, 2009 22:25:58 GMT 1, >>>I think those 10k paintings would actually be about 3-4k from his gallery which I think is reasonable<<<
Info from those much wiser than I said 4.5 to 5.5k for the 18x24. My point being they weren't unreasonable offering prices from my vantage point.
>>> 10k for an 18x24 reasonable? Maybe, but I think perspectives are still warped<<<
I think all of our perspectives are warped given what we pay for pictures that we don't need. At that price level, you buy it because you love it no more no less. Seller seems like a good person and informed collector from the little banter we had back and forth. I lost out on Scorch to someone willing to pay more than I but such is life. Another bus will come around in 10 minutes...
>>>I think those 10k paintings would actually be about 3-4k from his gallery which I think is reasonable<<<
Info from those much wiser than I said 4.5 to 5.5k for the 18x24. My point being they weren't unreasonable offering prices from my vantage point.
>>> 10k for an 18x24 reasonable? Maybe, but I think perspectives are still warped<<<
I think all of our perspectives are warped given what we pay for pictures that we don't need. At that price level, you buy it because you love it no more no less. Seller seems like a good person and informed collector from the little banter we had back and forth. I lost out on Scorch to someone willing to pay more than I but such is life. Another bus will come around in 10 minutes...
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lee3
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FS- Josh Keyes Originals, by lee3 on Aug 30, 2009 5:40:52 GMT 1, What's odd is that I believe i posted on this board or WK 4 or 5 months ago asking if anyone knew where the piece "scorch 1" was as it struck a chord in me as I'm an avid scuba diver. Thus my request above about anything with a shark, though admittedly it is common subject matter for this artist. pm sent
>>>Market on this guy is so strange <<<
To be fair, he's made a name for himself. I remember the days when $10k was an established mid career artist, but even after correction of the past year it *seems* reasonable to me. Admittedly I've only ever seen Keyes work and never a price tag associated with it.
What's odd is that I believe i posted on this board or WK 4 or 5 months ago asking if anyone knew where the piece "scorch 1" was as it struck a chord in me as I'm an avid scuba diver. Thus my request above about anything with a shark, though admittedly it is common subject matter for this artist. pm sent
>>>Market on this guy is so strange <<<
To be fair, he's made a name for himself. I remember the days when $10k was an established mid career artist, but even after correction of the past year it *seems* reasonable to me. Admittedly I've only ever seen Keyes work and never a price tag associated with it.
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lee3
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LOOKING FOR PHOTO FROM SHOW., by lee3 on Aug 29, 2009 15:56:15 GMT 1, faroutman, sorry i can't be of help. Cosmic, all of my high rez photos are unlocked so that anyone can download them for their own use. Here is the link to Don't forget your scarf:
just click on all sizes and then click on original and then there is a button to download the 5meg photo
www.flickr.com/photos/lar3/3632599599/in/set-72157619750964025/
faroutman, sorry i can't be of help. Cosmic, all of my high rez photos are unlocked so that anyone can download them for their own use. Here is the link to Don't forget your scarf: just click on all sizes and then click on original and then there is a button to download the 5meg photo www.flickr.com/photos/lar3/3632599599/in/set-72157619750964025/
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lee3
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FS- Josh Keyes Originals, by lee3 on Aug 28, 2009 17:00:10 GMT 1, If you have any originall compositions of his with a shark in them, I'd be interested. Feel free to drop me a PM. Otherwise, good luck with your sale
If you have any originall compositions of his with a shark in them, I'd be interested. Feel free to drop me a PM. Otherwise, good luck with your sale
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lee3
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Banksy - Steam Roller Traffic Warden, by lee3 on Aug 28, 2009 16:57:37 GMT 1, I think it's hilarious whoever did it.
I think it's hilarious whoever did it.
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lee3
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I want to buy a painting, by lee3 on Aug 27, 2009 22:54:15 GMT 1, I wish
I wish
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lee3
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I want to buy a painting, by lee3 on Aug 27, 2009 22:39:22 GMT 1, I know for certain that this is sold:
I know for certain that this is sold:
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lee3
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Christies Post War & Contemporary Art sale. 23 Sep, by lee3 on Aug 27, 2009 18:35:48 GMT 1, I love the Gottlieb "Flat Black" and I showed my wife the Dubuffet yesterday which has a teaser estimate @ 6k. I've been after a Dubuffet for longer than I care to remember. She correctly pointed out that while nice, it's just a Dubuffet for the sake of owning one, let's wait for a colorful hourloupe figure that we both love as he was quite prolific. She is smarter than I am. Not going or bidding. This is an odd month and back when the art market was more normal (which it probably is now) one didn't put anything nice in the September sales. I'm surprised to see a 22 inch Flower painting in this for that very reason but they probably told the consignor that they would be the standout piece and the cover and convinced them to include it. That's another low estimate imo.
Also noticed a Laugh Now at Bonham's in septemeber too. I believe they did away with their fall urban art sale unless I've got my dates all screwed up.
I love the Gottlieb "Flat Black" and I showed my wife the Dubuffet yesterday which has a teaser estimate @ 6k. I've been after a Dubuffet for longer than I care to remember. She correctly pointed out that while nice, it's just a Dubuffet for the sake of owning one, let's wait for a colorful hourloupe figure that we both love as he was quite prolific. She is smarter than I am. Not going or bidding. This is an odd month and back when the art market was more normal (which it probably is now) one didn't put anything nice in the September sales. I'm surprised to see a 22 inch Flower painting in this for that very reason but they probably told the consignor that they would be the standout piece and the cover and convinced them to include it. That's another low estimate imo.
Also noticed a Laugh Now at Bonham's in septemeber too. I believe they did away with their fall urban art sale unless I've got my dates all screwed up.
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lee3
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Banksy Precision Bomber , by lee3 on Aug 26, 2009 23:24:59 GMT 1, I've seen some from that edition quoted quite high. There have been at least two other different paintings from the edition offered at auction than the one linked above. Here are the results for those:
Banksy Title Precision bombing Medium acrylic and stencilled spray paint on canvas Year of Work 2000 Size Height 16.7 in.; Width 18.5 in. / Height 42.4 cm.; Width 47 cm. Edition 3/10 Sale of Bonhams Knightsbridge: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 [Lot 00219] Vision 21 Estimate 10,000 - 15,000 BP (20,370 - 30,556 US$) Sold For 26,400 BP (53,778 US$) PREMIUM Currency Converter
Banksy Title Precision bombing Medium acrylic and spraypaint stencil on canvas Size Height 16.9 in.; Width 18.5 in. / Height 42.9 cm.; Width 47 cm. Edition ed. 10 Misc. Signed Sale of Sotheby's Olympia: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 [Lot 00533] Contemporary Art Estimate 15,000 - 20,000 BP (29,013 - 38,684 US$) Sold For BOUGHT IN
As to current value, your guess is as good as mine.
I've seen some from that edition quoted quite high. There have been at least two other different paintings from the edition offered at auction than the one linked above. Here are the results for those:
Banksy Title Precision bombing Medium acrylic and stencilled spray paint on canvas Year of Work 2000 Size Height 16.7 in.; Width 18.5 in. / Height 42.4 cm.; Width 47 cm. Edition 3/10 Sale of Bonhams Knightsbridge: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 [Lot 00219] Vision 21 Estimate 10,000 - 15,000 BP (20,370 - 30,556 US$) Sold For 26,400 BP (53,778 US$) PREMIUM Currency Converter
Banksy Title Precision bombing Medium acrylic and spraypaint stencil on canvas Size Height 16.9 in.; Width 18.5 in. / Height 42.9 cm.; Width 47 cm. Edition ed. 10 Misc. Signed Sale of Sotheby's Olympia: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 [Lot 00533] Contemporary Art Estimate 15,000 - 20,000 BP (29,013 - 38,684 US$) Sold For BOUGHT IN
As to current value, your guess is as good as mine.
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Banksy in London - Westway Highwayman, by lee3 on Aug 26, 2009 15:58:41 GMT 1, Look at the pics already posted Retard. They're all there.
i just spit out some coffee and scone (it's early in the morning over here) as i was taken back as that didn't seem like something Roman would say. Once i realized the username, the folks outside my office asked "what's so funny?"
Look at the pics already posted Retard. They're all there. i just spit out some coffee and scone (it's early in the morning over here) as i was taken back as that didn't seem like something Roman would say. Once i realized the username, the folks outside my office asked "what's so funny?"
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Banksy Donuts Print, by lee3 on Aug 24, 2009 22:08:25 GMT 1, COA delivered today in LA, but no sign of the print. Deep breaths of patience.....
Same thing here in San Francisco which is somewhat funny. I've got plenty of patience and good to know that were both in the same situation in the same corner of the world. Probably another couple of days at most.
COA delivered today in LA, but no sign of the print. Deep breaths of patience..... Same thing here in San Francisco which is somewhat funny. I've got plenty of patience and good to know that were both in the same situation in the same corner of the world. Probably another couple of days at most.
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Banksy in London - Westway Highwayman, by lee3 on Aug 24, 2009 18:21:41 GMT 1, >>> it does seem a little strange for banksy to recycle an old image<<<
I have no idea either way if it's Banksy or not, but one could look at it as a curtain call to a show full of old images with just one week remaining. There are many similarities between Banksy and Zorro, so why not? If it turns out to be his, I wouldn't be surprised to see a few more Banksy's making their appearance on the streets this week as I presume there will be a fair amount of press regarding final totals from his show. Why not add a bit of momentum with some fesh paint on the streets?
>>> it does seem a little strange for banksy to recycle an old image<<<
I have no idea either way if it's Banksy or not, but one could look at it as a curtain call to a show full of old images with just one week remaining. There are many similarities between Banksy and Zorro, so why not? If it turns out to be his, I wouldn't be surprised to see a few more Banksy's making their appearance on the streets this week as I presume there will be a fair amount of press regarding final totals from his show. Why not add a bit of momentum with some fesh paint on the streets?
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ยฃ1350 for your Banksy Strawberry Donut, by lee3 on Aug 22, 2009 16:14:17 GMT 1, amazed how many people want this, gotta be one of his weakest prints to date agreed, will be valued no more than a color trolley as soon as people start unloading them and the hype of a new release dies down
Let's hope there are more than a few (dare I saw majority?) that entered simply because of donut's price relative to other prints. I remember laughing hysterically at the composition in person at the show but couldn't justify the price. I entered the lottery because of the sentimental/nostalgic memory it would/will give me of being at that show. I was and still am floored at the artistic undertaking for Banksy vs. the Bristol museum. i do not normally collect prints and this will be the second one in my collection without any chance of leaving. I suspect that for many, this is a nice reminder of an event that took significant effort to attend in person and the reward was exponentially better than one could ever have hoped. It certainly has made a the few shows I've see since pale by comparison. That's not to suggest that a healthy number of the ~ 600 will not end up for sale. However, i believe there are a certain number that some may be underestimating will never be offered for sale for the reasons mentioned above.
I also LOVE the thought of hanging this print above my guest bed in which my father in law, a now retired judge, will sleep beneath when he comes to visit.
amazed how many people want this, gotta be one of his weakest prints to date agreed, will be valued no more than a color trolley as soon as people start unloading them and the hype of a new release dies down Let's hope there are more than a few (dare I saw majority?) that entered simply because of donut's price relative to other prints. I remember laughing hysterically at the composition in person at the show but couldn't justify the price. I entered the lottery because of the sentimental/nostalgic memory it would/will give me of being at that show. I was and still am floored at the artistic undertaking for Banksy vs. the Bristol museum. i do not normally collect prints and this will be the second one in my collection without any chance of leaving. I suspect that for many, this is a nice reminder of an event that took significant effort to attend in person and the reward was exponentially better than one could ever have hoped. It certainly has made a the few shows I've see since pale by comparison. That's not to suggest that a healthy number of the ~ 600 will not end up for sale. However, i believe there are a certain number that some may be underestimating will never be offered for sale for the reasons mentioned above. I also LOVE the thought of hanging this print above my guest bed in which my father in law, a now retired judge, will sleep beneath when he comes to visit.
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Donut for trade , by lee3 on Aug 21, 2009 20:41:56 GMT 1, The pictures on that site are crazy, they look so much like photographs.
Yeah, it's quite a trade they practiced. Goings, Mel Ramos and Wayne Thiebaud were all pretty tight and though each of them worked on different themes, there are similarities throughout their work. All of them have STRONG foundations in the technique and if memory serves Ramos taught Goings watercolor technique and though they are both among the best examples I've ever seen, I'd give the slight nod to the student in that medium. It's quite a rich history they all share though Ramos and Goings never achieved the commercial success that Thiebaud had. All of them teachers in their own right, stress a foundation with drawing being so very important to their work. It was part of the initial attraction to me with Banksy as he too preaches a love for the craft as necessary in W&P to finding his own way artistically. His art is much different than theirs but that theme is evident in all the great ones including the abstract painters who could draw something perfectly yet their art explored something different entirely.
Sorry about the tangent to your thread maxie; good luck in your search.
The pictures on that site are crazy, they look so much like photographs. Yeah, it's quite a trade they practiced. Goings, Mel Ramos and Wayne Thiebaud were all pretty tight and though each of them worked on different themes, there are similarities throughout their work. All of them have STRONG foundations in the technique and if memory serves Ramos taught Goings watercolor technique and though they are both among the best examples I've ever seen, I'd give the slight nod to the student in that medium. It's quite a rich history they all share though Ramos and Goings never achieved the commercial success that Thiebaud had. All of them teachers in their own right, stress a foundation with drawing being so very important to their work. It was part of the initial attraction to me with Banksy as he too preaches a love for the craft as necessary in W&P to finding his own way artistically. His art is much different than theirs but that theme is evident in all the great ones including the abstract painters who could draw something perfectly yet their art explored something different entirely. Sorry about the tangent to your thread maxie; good luck in your search.
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lee3
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Donut for trade , by lee3 on Aug 21, 2009 16:49:29 GMT 1, For those with a donut fetish, may I suggest Ralph Goings. Yes, they're far more expensive than the print from Banksy and admittedly nowhere near as well executed as Ralph himself would have done 20 years ago, but I have much respect for a man over 80 still dedicated to his craft and most of the work at this link after suffering a stroke.
www.okharris.com/artists/goings.htm
In better times with hands of steel and execution using watercolor that I have never seen matched. Here on a canvas that looks like a photo to the naked eye even from a distance of 2 inches:
More of his wonderful work here and my only problem with it from an admiration standpoint is that they only seem to work hung inside a home in a kitchen.
www.ralphlgoings.com/
For those with a donut fetish, may I suggest Ralph Goings. Yes, they're far more expensive than the print from Banksy and admittedly nowhere near as well executed as Ralph himself would have done 20 years ago, but I have much respect for a man over 80 still dedicated to his craft and most of the work at this link after suffering a stroke. www.okharris.com/artists/goings.htmIn better times with hands of steel and execution using watercolor that I have never seen matched. Here on a canvas that looks like a photo to the naked eye even from a distance of 2 inches: More of his wonderful work here and my only problem with it from an admiration standpoint is that they only seem to work hung inside a home in a kitchen. www.ralphlgoings.com/
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lee3
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Guy denning burning his paintings!!!, by lee3 on Aug 16, 2009 22:57:32 GMT 1, i should add my comment had nothing whatsoever do with Denning's work which I find incredibly engaging. My response was to the quote itself, nothing more.
i should add my comment had nothing whatsoever do with Denning's work which I find incredibly engaging. My response was to the quote itself, nothing more.
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lee3
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Guy denning burning his paintings!!!, by lee3 on Aug 16, 2009 22:29:07 GMT 1, If the work is too easy then thereโs no point in doing it is there? - guy denning
I often find myself drawn to some of the simplest art in whatever medium as opposed to many who favor complexity or technical perfection (though i appreciate both). Further, I've found over the years that I appreciate artists that embrace their "mistakes" within their body of work and over time those mistakes to *my* eyes become some of the most powerful points of the final compositions. Just a counter take on that quote as I interpret it which could be 180 degrees from how he intended it to be digested- ie. he could well be referring to the hardship an artist must endure on the path to persuing their career which is anything but easy for most.
If the work is too easy then thereโs no point in doing it is there? - guy denning I often find myself drawn to some of the simplest art in whatever medium as opposed to many who favor complexity or technical perfection (though i appreciate both). Further, I've found over the years that I appreciate artists that embrace their "mistakes" within their body of work and over time those mistakes to *my* eyes become some of the most powerful points of the final compositions. Just a counter take on that quote as I interpret it which could be 180 degrees from how he intended it to be digested- ie. he could well be referring to the hardship an artist must endure on the path to persuing their career which is anything but easy for most.
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lee3
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Cost price for the banksy prints in 2005/5, by lee3 on Aug 15, 2009 16:33:18 GMT 1, Obviously most back then traded privately or on ebay. There were a whopping 4 prints offered at auction between January '04 and December '05:
Full details 1 Banksy Title Girl and balloon Medium screenprint in red and black Year of Work 2004 Size Height 26 in.; Width 19.7 in. / Height 66 cm.; Width 50 cm. Edition 92/150 Misc. Signed Sale of Bonhams London: Monday, March 14, 2005 [Lot 00136] Modern and Contemporary Prints Estimate 300 - 400 BP (575 - 767 US$) Sold For BOUGHT IN
Full details 2 Banksy Title I fought the law and w.. Medium screenprint Year of Work 2004 Size Height 27.6 in.; Width 27.6 in. / Height 70.1 cm.; Width 70.1 cm. Edition 30/150 Misc. Signed Sale of Bonhams London: Monday, March 14, 2005 [Lot 00137] Modern and Contemporary Prints Estimate 200 - 300 BP (381 - 572 US$) Sold For BOUGHT IN
Full details 3 Banksy Title Love bomb Medium screenprint in black and pink Year of Work 2004 Size Height 25.2 in.; Width 17.3 in. / Height 64 cm.; Width 43.9 cm. Edition 101/150 Misc. Signed Sale of Bonhams London: Monday, March 14, 2005 [Lot 00138] Modern and Contemporary Prints Estimate 200 - 300 BP (381 - 572 US$) Sold For 200 BP (383 US$) HAMMER Currency Converter
Full details 4 Banksy Title Rat Medium screenprint in black and hand stencilled spray can in orange Size Height 14.2 in.; Width 14.2 in. / Height 36.1 cm.; Width 36.1 cm. Edition 24/75 Misc. Signed Sale of Bonhams London: Monday, March 14, 2005 [Lot 00139] Modern and Contemporary Prints Estimate 400 - 600 BP (763 - 1,145 US$) Sold For 400 BP (767 US$) HAMMER Currency Converter
Obviously most back then traded privately or on ebay. There were a whopping 4 prints offered at auction between January '04 and December '05:
Full details 1 Banksy Title Girl and balloon Medium screenprint in red and black Year of Work 2004 Size Height 26 in.; Width 19.7 in. / Height 66 cm.; Width 50 cm. Edition 92/150 Misc. Signed Sale of Bonhams London: Monday, March 14, 2005 [Lot 00136] Modern and Contemporary Prints Estimate 300 - 400 BP (575 - 767 US$) Sold For BOUGHT IN
Full details 2 Banksy Title I fought the law and w.. Medium screenprint Year of Work 2004 Size Height 27.6 in.; Width 27.6 in. / Height 70.1 cm.; Width 70.1 cm. Edition 30/150 Misc. Signed Sale of Bonhams London: Monday, March 14, 2005 [Lot 00137] Modern and Contemporary Prints Estimate 200 - 300 BP (381 - 572 US$) Sold For BOUGHT IN
Full details 3 Banksy Title Love bomb Medium screenprint in black and pink Year of Work 2004 Size Height 25.2 in.; Width 17.3 in. / Height 64 cm.; Width 43.9 cm. Edition 101/150 Misc. Signed Sale of Bonhams London: Monday, March 14, 2005 [Lot 00138] Modern and Contemporary Prints Estimate 200 - 300 BP (381 - 572 US$) Sold For 200 BP (383 US$) HAMMER Currency Converter
Full details 4 Banksy Title Rat Medium screenprint in black and hand stencilled spray can in orange Size Height 14.2 in.; Width 14.2 in. / Height 36.1 cm.; Width 36.1 cm. Edition 24/75 Misc. Signed Sale of Bonhams London: Monday, March 14, 2005 [Lot 00139] Modern and Contemporary Prints Estimate 400 - 600 BP (763 - 1,145 US$) Sold For 400 BP (767 US$) HAMMER Currency Converter
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lee3
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Favourite piece from the Banksy group show ;), by lee3 on Aug 14, 2009 18:47:10 GMT 1, My favorite NEW piece was this (would appreciate if someone could remind me of her proper title);
My favorite NEW piece was this (would appreciate if someone could remind me of her proper title);
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Parla Watercolour, by lee3 on Aug 13, 2009 20:40:30 GMT 1, >>>However my argument is that now producing work in a Pollock style is neither evolutionary, radical, fresh or innovative.<<
Agreed
>>>I really do like Parla's work, and could afford to buy one however what gets my goat is that the prices are so expensive that i am not prepared to pay it. It sometimes pays to be slightly cynical, however i may be the one eating my words when they are trading for millions.<<
I'll echo your thoughts on this with the disclaimer that I believe there is a decent chance given the economies of the world that the price of art today, even after last years 50% correction, may look very expensive 5 years from now. We buy what we love and good for you if you get lucky and happen to collect an artist that someday trades for millions. I like Parla's work A LOT but the pricing concerns me as does the pricing of most artists to be honest. The beauty of this hobby is that it's subjective and even if you and I don't feel compelled to buy one of his canvases at 50 to 75k, there are plenty who do.
Maybe someone here can help me as I asked this question elsewhere and it went unanswered. On WK someone mentioned that Parla does not want photos posted publicly of his work even after the buyer has it in thier home. That's obviously tough to control but I've never heard of that before and I'm curious as to why. thx in advance for any color...
>>>However my argument is that now producing work in a Pollock style is neither evolutionary, radical, fresh or innovative.<<
Agreed
>>>I really do like Parla's work, and could afford to buy one however what gets my goat is that the prices are so expensive that i am not prepared to pay it. It sometimes pays to be slightly cynical, however i may be the one eating my words when they are trading for millions.<<
I'll echo your thoughts on this with the disclaimer that I believe there is a decent chance given the economies of the world that the price of art today, even after last years 50% correction, may look very expensive 5 years from now. We buy what we love and good for you if you get lucky and happen to collect an artist that someday trades for millions. I like Parla's work A LOT but the pricing concerns me as does the pricing of most artists to be honest. The beauty of this hobby is that it's subjective and even if you and I don't feel compelled to buy one of his canvases at 50 to 75k, there are plenty who do.
Maybe someone here can help me as I asked this question elsewhere and it went unanswered. On WK someone mentioned that Parla does not want photos posted publicly of his work even after the buyer has it in thier home. That's obviously tough to control but I've never heard of that before and I'm curious as to why. thx in advance for any color...
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lee3
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Parla Watercolour, by lee3 on Aug 13, 2009 20:02:59 GMT 1, >>>The point about Jackson Pollock is that ANYONE could do what he did - however Pollock was the one that did it.
End of story - anyone else can reproduce that style of work. You do not need to be an artist, and consequently reproducing it does not make you one.<<<
I respectfully disagree. I've seen so many pollock imitators and few of them even come close. That man had a spiritual dance around a canvas laid on the floor (both of which to my knowledge had never been done before) and the madness and demons he carried with him in life seemed to be kept at bay while he worked and even he admitted that it calmed him. Those are masterpieces and while you and I may be able to lay a canvas on the ground and run around it with paint and toss some rocks and sand on it for good measure, i promise you that neither one of us will come close to the beauty that to me (and many others) only he could invoke.
I'll concede that you and I both could easily do a Warhol knock off but good luck on Pollock.
>>>The point about Jackson Pollock is that ANYONE could do what he did - however Pollock was the one that did it.
End of story - anyone else can reproduce that style of work. You do not need to be an artist, and consequently reproducing it does not make you one.<<<
I respectfully disagree. I've seen so many pollock imitators and few of them even come close. That man had a spiritual dance around a canvas laid on the floor (both of which to my knowledge had never been done before) and the madness and demons he carried with him in life seemed to be kept at bay while he worked and even he admitted that it calmed him. Those are masterpieces and while you and I may be able to lay a canvas on the ground and run around it with paint and toss some rocks and sand on it for good measure, i promise you that neither one of us will come close to the beauty that to me (and many others) only he could invoke.
I'll concede that you and I both could easily do a Warhol knock off but good luck on Pollock.
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Money no object which 4 paintings would you get?, by lee3 on Aug 4, 2009 15:54:57 GMT 1, lee3, to your note on the non-mention of Rothko, you read my mind! I was actually considering a Rothko as my 4th pick (below - not sure the title). Definitely a strong piece in my eyes! Now let's see more!
Snel:
That's called Number 14 and was painted in 1960 and I've spent exponentially more time in front of that Rothko than any other because it's part of the SF Moma collection. They've appropriately put a bench in front of that painting and because my job is close enough, I stroll over to their permanent collection probably once a month on average but a lot more in the summer with guests. That piece is huge (I'd guess close to 300 cm square) and created quite the controversy here nearly a decade ago (time flies) when the museum reached for it paying around $6 or 7 million US. It REALLY upset a lot of donors to see a splurge of that kind of capital at the time on one painting and at the zenith of the art market it was worth 10X+ what they paid for it and still exponentially more today. I've been fortunate to hop on various docent tours and love listening to their thoughts on the piece and the reactions it provokes from the guests. Though not the prettiest Rothko, it is the most powerful one that my eyes have seen. That piece just comes to life like a beating heart in front of your eyes. I think I know where I'm going to take the new hire for lunch today...
lee3, to your note on the non-mention of Rothko, you read my mind! I was actually considering a Rothko as my 4th pick (below - not sure the title). Definitely a strong piece in my eyes! Now let's see more! Snel: That's called Number 14 and was painted in 1960 and I've spent exponentially more time in front of that Rothko than any other because it's part of the SF Moma collection. They've appropriately put a bench in front of that painting and because my job is close enough, I stroll over to their permanent collection probably once a month on average but a lot more in the summer with guests. That piece is huge (I'd guess close to 300 cm square) and created quite the controversy here nearly a decade ago (time flies) when the museum reached for it paying around $6 or 7 million US. It REALLY upset a lot of donors to see a splurge of that kind of capital at the time on one painting and at the zenith of the art market it was worth 10X+ what they paid for it and still exponentially more today. I've been fortunate to hop on various docent tours and love listening to their thoughts on the piece and the reactions it provokes from the guests. Though not the prettiest Rothko, it is the most powerful one that my eyes have seen. That piece just comes to life like a beating heart in front of your eyes. I think I know where I'm going to take the new hire for lunch today...
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Money no object which 4 paintings would you get?, by lee3 on Aug 4, 2009 2:19:23 GMT 1, >>>I'm just saying I don't think it's very interesting to read people's lists of Guernica, Starry Night, Mona Lisa and the Scream<<<
Than skip 'em rather than complain about them or offer something better than criticism- life's too short (i should head my own advice). To be honest, there is an abundance of average art at this site and it piqued my curiosity to think if I could have any 4, what would they be? I forget who said it, but I love the quote "art is the signature of generations". It makes sense on a thread like this (which is rare imo here) that the cream will rise to the top. Likewise, it will generally have a big price tag but it doesn't lessen the goose bump moment of impact that any of these masterpieces have had on us at various times in our lives. Interesting not one Rothko or a Miro sculpture but I digress.
For the snausage list (apologies to those of you who are already familiar with all of these compositions and thus bored):
>>>I'm just saying I don't think it's very interesting to read people's lists of Guernica, Starry Night, Mona Lisa and the Scream<<< Than skip 'em rather than complain about them or offer something better than criticism- life's too short (i should head my own advice). To be honest, there is an abundance of average art at this site and it piqued my curiosity to think if I could have any 4, what would they be? I forget who said it, but I love the quote "art is the signature of generations". It makes sense on a thread like this (which is rare imo here) that the cream will rise to the top. Likewise, it will generally have a big price tag but it doesn't lessen the goose bump moment of impact that any of these masterpieces have had on us at various times in our lives. Interesting not one Rothko or a Miro sculpture but I digress. For the snausage list (apologies to those of you who are already familiar with all of these compositions and thus bored):
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