lee3
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Andy Warhol 🇺🇸 Real or Fake? • Sunday B. Morning Print, by lee3 on May 18, 2009 22:49:27 GMT 1, Thx coach, I've obviously spent far too much time studying Warhol so I might as well be helpful when I can. thanks Lee3 - i was offered this screen print from the ladies and gentleman series last month - its a likeable print but a bit large for my humble bedsit - i have no idea on the value/desireability of this particular image/series. it was framed to museum standard by john jones - guy was looking for 4k ... any opinions?
Etched:
That is one of the better images in that portfolio and it most recently traded for $2,500 in November '08. That print series and the canvases too have always been a difficult sell. They have traded with regularity and have been bought in with regularity too. Their high price was around $9k. They traded around $6k more often than not over the past year. I think $4k is a fair offer. If I had to have this image in my collection in this environment, I would only be willing to spend $2,500 on it however as (like anything else) the pricing has come in. Good luck
Thx coach, I've obviously spent far too much time studying Warhol so I might as well be helpful when I can. thanks Lee3 - i was offered this screen print from the ladies and gentleman series last month - its a likeable print but a bit large for my humble bedsit - i have no idea on the value/desireability of this particular image/series. it was framed to museum standard by john jones - guy was looking for 4k ... any opinions? Etched: That is one of the better images in that portfolio and it most recently traded for $2,500 in November '08. That print series and the canvases too have always been a difficult sell. They have traded with regularity and have been bought in with regularity too. Their high price was around $9k. They traded around $6k more often than not over the past year. I think $4k is a fair offer. If I had to have this image in my collection in this environment, I would only be willing to spend $2,500 on it however as (like anything else) the pricing has come in. Good luck
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lee3
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Andy Warhol 🇺🇸 Real or Fake? • Sunday B. Morning Print, by lee3 on May 18, 2009 20:45:23 GMT 1, I pretty much agree Lee but then again it's almost fact that the price of Banksy and anything or any artists associated with this movement became wildly speculative. I still think many people have a warped perspective of the art world prices etc. because of this. But I wonder how many years it may take for certain pieces to ever achieve the same level they once did and if it will happen in my lifetime.
And you can replace Banksy's name with Warhol in the quote above or any other artist, stocks, houses, etc. We witnessed the greatest speculative bubble the world has ever seen across many different items that humans cherish and are now in the midst of the deleveraging process. To complicate matters further we've got the central banks and elected officals of the world doing everything in their power to fight this process with more ammunition than most of us can (or want to) comprehend. None of us knows how this will conclude and all we can do is prepare for the worst (have as little or zero debt to our names) and hope for the best. Nice pictures on the walls are just that and I'm more guilty than most of taking this hobby way too seriously at times. But those same pictures make for a pleasant escape for our minds to relax and contemplate the things we choose at night and on the weekends.
I pretty much agree Lee but then again it's almost fact that the price of Banksy and anything or any artists associated with this movement became wildly speculative. I still think many people have a warped perspective of the art world prices etc. because of this. But I wonder how many years it may take for certain pieces to ever achieve the same level they once did and if it will happen in my lifetime. And you can replace Banksy's name with Warhol in the quote above or any other artist, stocks, houses, etc. We witnessed the greatest speculative bubble the world has ever seen across many different items that humans cherish and are now in the midst of the deleveraging process. To complicate matters further we've got the central banks and elected officals of the world doing everything in their power to fight this process with more ammunition than most of us can (or want to) comprehend. None of us knows how this will conclude and all we can do is prepare for the worst (have as little or zero debt to our names) and hope for the best. Nice pictures on the walls are just that and I'm more guilty than most of taking this hobby way too seriously at times. But those same pictures make for a pleasant escape for our minds to relax and contemplate the things we choose at night and on the weekends.
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lee3
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Andy Warhol 🇺🇸 Real or Fake? • Sunday B. Morning Print, by lee3 on May 18, 2009 19:43:59 GMT 1, Thx coach, I've obviously spent far too much time studying Warhol so I might as well be helpful when I can.
Thx coach, I've obviously spent far too much time studying Warhol so I might as well be helpful when I can.
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Andy Warhol 🇺🇸 Real or Fake? • Sunday B. Morning Print, by lee3 on May 18, 2009 18:26:01 GMT 1, >>>>But anyway when the price of Banksy screenprints went bonkers I had a very hard time understanding why people were paying so much for them when I could get a signed Warhol for cheaper. It's insane that people were paying more money for a Judgement Day or a Tea Drinker giclee too than my Warhol<<<<
I hear you on one hand and I'm certainly no expert on prints but one contributing factor would be volume. There are over a hundred thousdand Warhol signed prints and there are what- (total guess) perhaps 3k signed Banksy prints? Another factor as you touched on is the element of power or iconic imagery. Will Banksy be the signature of this generation as Warhol was to his? Only time will tell and I can appreciate anyone who argues that Banksy is already priced for perfection whereas Warhol achieved it. I agree and disagree with that point but that is of little matter for this discussion.
The point I'm making is that many of the early Banksy prints are iconic for that artist and they will be expensive by comparison should he fade into oblivion but it's obvious the owners enjoy those prints and the press sure does follow every move this artist makes just as they did with Warhol in the '60s. I can only speak from experience but I studied and collected Warhol feverishly 10 years ago and over the past year I've made my first art sales ever which included selling a pair of what I consider decorative Warhol works and used the proceeds to purchase what I consider iconic Banksy images. The latter seem much more powerful to my wife and I on our walls and we are both very happy with that decision (although we sold those particular Warhol's about 5 months too late).
>>>>But anyway when the price of Banksy screenprints went bonkers I had a very hard time understanding why people were paying so much for them when I could get a signed Warhol for cheaper. It's insane that people were paying more money for a Judgement Day or a Tea Drinker giclee too than my Warhol<<<<
I hear you on one hand and I'm certainly no expert on prints but one contributing factor would be volume. There are over a hundred thousdand Warhol signed prints and there are what- (total guess) perhaps 3k signed Banksy prints? Another factor as you touched on is the element of power or iconic imagery. Will Banksy be the signature of this generation as Warhol was to his? Only time will tell and I can appreciate anyone who argues that Banksy is already priced for perfection whereas Warhol achieved it. I agree and disagree with that point but that is of little matter for this discussion.
The point I'm making is that many of the early Banksy prints are iconic for that artist and they will be expensive by comparison should he fade into oblivion but it's obvious the owners enjoy those prints and the press sure does follow every move this artist makes just as they did with Warhol in the '60s. I can only speak from experience but I studied and collected Warhol feverishly 10 years ago and over the past year I've made my first art sales ever which included selling a pair of what I consider decorative Warhol works and used the proceeds to purchase what I consider iconic Banksy images. The latter seem much more powerful to my wife and I on our walls and we are both very happy with that decision (although we sold those particular Warhol's about 5 months too late).
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lee3
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Andy Warhol 🇺🇸 Real or Fake? • Sunday B. Morning Print, by lee3 on May 18, 2009 17:23:07 GMT 1, >>>What would the canvas cost ? I assume that it would be a large edditioned canvas too ?<<<
Each of the canvases are obviously "unique" save for the use of the variously sized silk screens. However, unlike Banksy who often #s his stencil editions, Warhol did no such thing so we have to wait until the catalog raisonne is printed and we have some idea about how many canvases were created with this image. There are nearly 200 Jackie's (from memory) but that doesn't make them any less important to my eyes and those cost $600k to $1 million each (there were none for sale last week so hard to say) down from $2.5M at the top. There were (again, from memory- so don't quote me as its been a while since i opened my copies of the raisonnes) around 20 of the 20x16 Marilyn's and the last one of those was nearly $30M while the previous one was $16M. So, "edition" while a factor isn't nearly as important as the desirability of the image itself or the size of the canvas it is on.
Back to your specific question, the Vesuvius canvases are of various sizes and one measuring 143x163cm sold for $1.3M in July '08 before the collapse of the market and I would guess is worth half of that at best today. There were 2 Vesuvius canvases (one large and one small) that went unsold at auction prior to that. If you go back 4 canvases, there was a nice one measuring 180x200cm that sold for $2.3M in October '06. There were various ones done on cardboard and some drawings of this image too and since this was done in '85, your guess is as good as mine as to how many there are. He had an army of people working for him by that point and since his catalog raisonne is only complete through '69, it's going to be many years until the stuff from '85 is released to the public. The last I heard the next edition '70-'73 is due out next year and that will include most of the Mao's. To give you an idea of how slowly the foundation is documenting and releasing his CR, the first edition ('61-'63) was published way back in '02. So, we may be lucky to see the edition covering '85 by 2025.
>>>What would the canvas cost ? I assume that it would be a large edditioned canvas too ?<<<
Each of the canvases are obviously "unique" save for the use of the variously sized silk screens. However, unlike Banksy who often #s his stencil editions, Warhol did no such thing so we have to wait until the catalog raisonne is printed and we have some idea about how many canvases were created with this image. There are nearly 200 Jackie's (from memory) but that doesn't make them any less important to my eyes and those cost $600k to $1 million each (there were none for sale last week so hard to say) down from $2.5M at the top. There were (again, from memory- so don't quote me as its been a while since i opened my copies of the raisonnes) around 20 of the 20x16 Marilyn's and the last one of those was nearly $30M while the previous one was $16M. So, "edition" while a factor isn't nearly as important as the desirability of the image itself or the size of the canvas it is on.
Back to your specific question, the Vesuvius canvases are of various sizes and one measuring 143x163cm sold for $1.3M in July '08 before the collapse of the market and I would guess is worth half of that at best today. There were 2 Vesuvius canvases (one large and one small) that went unsold at auction prior to that. If you go back 4 canvases, there was a nice one measuring 180x200cm that sold for $2.3M in October '06. There were various ones done on cardboard and some drawings of this image too and since this was done in '85, your guess is as good as mine as to how many there are. He had an army of people working for him by that point and since his catalog raisonne is only complete through '69, it's going to be many years until the stuff from '85 is released to the public. The last I heard the next edition '70-'73 is due out next year and that will include most of the Mao's. To give you an idea of how slowly the foundation is documenting and releasing his CR, the first edition ('61-'63) was published way back in '02. So, we may be lucky to see the edition covering '85 by 2025.
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lee3
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Andy Warhol 🇺🇸 Real or Fake? • Sunday B. Morning Print, by lee3 on May 18, 2009 16:35:45 GMT 1, Hamilton selway is a decent place but again their prices are high, not as sky high as Coskun or Martin Lawrence but high nonetheless. I have never seen any Warhol print dealer offering their wares for anywhere near the going rate at auction. Most are double to triple the price. Vesuvius is not a high demand print or canvas so you should have a lot of wiggle room here. However, Warhol did very well last week at the May auctions and I suspect that will give dealers more confidence in not lowering offer prices. I'd be patient and wait for it to come to auction later this summer or fall as there are 250 of these plus another 117 additional proofs. If you want to drop me a PM with your email address, i can reply with the auction history for this image.
Bottom line, the last one to trade from the edition of 250 sold for $16,250 in April, one of the trial proofs (edition of 57) went for $36k earlier that same month. Another from the edition of 250 went for $24k earlier in April and back in December one sold for $60k. Over the past 1.5 years the edition of 250 has come to auction about 10 times and traded at a low (most recently) of $16,250 and a high of $85k. I, personally, wouldn't pay more than $20-25k for one in mint condition in this climate if I absolutely had to have this image and I suspect you have little chance of getting a print dealer to agree to that price. However, it is obviously common at auction so you don't even need much patience to get it "on the cheap". Good luck
Hamilton selway is a decent place but again their prices are high, not as sky high as Coskun or Martin Lawrence but high nonetheless. I have never seen any Warhol print dealer offering their wares for anywhere near the going rate at auction. Most are double to triple the price. Vesuvius is not a high demand print or canvas so you should have a lot of wiggle room here. However, Warhol did very well last week at the May auctions and I suspect that will give dealers more confidence in not lowering offer prices. I'd be patient and wait for it to come to auction later this summer or fall as there are 250 of these plus another 117 additional proofs. If you want to drop me a PM with your email address, i can reply with the auction history for this image.
Bottom line, the last one to trade from the edition of 250 sold for $16,250 in April, one of the trial proofs (edition of 57) went for $36k earlier that same month. Another from the edition of 250 went for $24k earlier in April and back in December one sold for $60k. Over the past 1.5 years the edition of 250 has come to auction about 10 times and traded at a low (most recently) of $16,250 and a high of $85k. I, personally, wouldn't pay more than $20-25k for one in mint condition in this climate if I absolutely had to have this image and I suspect you have little chance of getting a print dealer to agree to that price. However, it is obviously common at auction so you don't even need much patience to get it "on the cheap". Good luck
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lee3
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Sotheby's Art Auctions • NEW YORK 🇺🇲, by lee3 on May 14, 2009 0:01:15 GMT 1, >>>>I'm always skeptical, but small ticket item? If you're collecting Pollock and Basquiat maybe but that is a seriously high price for people who collect young contemporary.<<<<
The evening sales are dominated by those that are collecting Pollock and Basquiat, not young contemporary.
>>>I can't believe it was simply schlepped in as a favor and went for 2 or 3x estimates on luck. <<<<
Nor am I suggesting that either. However, as 30 something year old artist with his first painting in an evening sale, it is foolish imho to ignore the possibility that there is one or more people with a vested interest to make certain it's a success is my point. Whether you are old or young, $300k is on the cheaper side of the average price in a Sotheby's or Christie's evening May sale and there are plenty of dealers the world over the prop up multi million dollar artists. That was all I meant by having a healthy dose of skepticism with regard to that particular sale price. My comment had nothing to do with the merit of the art itself.
>>>>I'm always skeptical, but small ticket item? If you're collecting Pollock and Basquiat maybe but that is a seriously high price for people who collect young contemporary.<<<<
The evening sales are dominated by those that are collecting Pollock and Basquiat, not young contemporary.
>>>I can't believe it was simply schlepped in as a favor and went for 2 or 3x estimates on luck. <<<<
Nor am I suggesting that either. However, as 30 something year old artist with his first painting in an evening sale, it is foolish imho to ignore the possibility that there is one or more people with a vested interest to make certain it's a success is my point. Whether you are old or young, $300k is on the cheaper side of the average price in a Sotheby's or Christie's evening May sale and there are plenty of dealers the world over the prop up multi million dollar artists. That was all I meant by having a healthy dose of skepticism with regard to that particular sale price. My comment had nothing to do with the merit of the art itself.
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lee3
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Sotheby's Art Auctions • NEW YORK 🇺🇲, by lee3 on May 13, 2009 23:21:04 GMT 1, I doubt very highly there was any guarantee on anything below $2 million dollars at either Christie's or Sotheby's this go around. The Colen candle is a comparatively small ticket item stuck in the evening sale which is usually a favor to someone. Imho, it is foolish to not have a fair dose of skepticism with regard to that price which is not to suggest that his pricing will not continue to escalate. However, there is a method to the madness in NY.
Looking forward to the main event for May which kicks off in about an hour.
I doubt very highly there was any guarantee on anything below $2 million dollars at either Christie's or Sotheby's this go around. The Colen candle is a comparatively small ticket item stuck in the evening sale which is usually a favor to someone. Imho, it is foolish to not have a fair dose of skepticism with regard to that price which is not to suggest that his pricing will not continue to escalate. However, there is a method to the madness in NY.
Looking forward to the main event for May which kicks off in about an hour.
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lee3
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How the contemporary art bubble burst - The Times, by lee3 on May 13, 2009 17:31:45 GMT 1, Just out of interest, what is your avatar Lee3?
It is an underwater photo that i took a couple of years ago scuba diving in nearby kelp beds in 46 degree F waters in carmel, ca. I'll be taking some more photos at that site on Sunday.
The best weekend of CA diving I've enjoyed in over 5 or 6 years produced these photos a few months ago.
www.flickr.com/photos/lar3/sets/72157613253977153/detail/
Just out of interest, what is your avatar Lee3? It is an underwater photo that i took a couple of years ago scuba diving in nearby kelp beds in 46 degree F waters in carmel, ca. I'll be taking some more photos at that site on Sunday. The best weekend of CA diving I've enjoyed in over 5 or 6 years produced these photos a few months ago. www.flickr.com/photos/lar3/sets/72157613253977153/detail/
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lee3
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How the contemporary art bubble burst - The Times, by lee3 on May 13, 2009 17:11:35 GMT 1, very very very few ppl here who have to worry about their collections in these terms lee - possibly you and a couple of others, the rest of us are happy with our prints and below £500 originals - thankyou very much
br:
Perhaps that came out wrong. I wish I could worry about my collection of Hirst, Murakami, Koons, or Prince as I have nothing by any of them. It's all relative whether one has an art collection worth $500, $10k, $100k, $10M, or $100M. The point remains the same at all levels and that is that there is a steep discount to values compared with a year ago. I look at art as something I love and a sunk cost but I'm a human being too and would be in denial if I were to say, "gee I like losing money." We love the art on our walls and most of us don't sell much if at all. But you have to recognize the environment one is in and as much as I'd love to be buying $500k paintings, it is a luxury that I can not enjoy. Big deal, life goes on. It doesn't prohibit me from studying the sales of such works and drawing my own conclusions. My apologies if it came out in a pompous way.
very very very few ppl here who have to worry about their collections in these terms lee - possibly you and a couple of others, the rest of us are happy with our prints and below £500 originals - thankyou very much br: Perhaps that came out wrong. I wish I could worry about my collection of Hirst, Murakami, Koons, or Prince as I have nothing by any of them. It's all relative whether one has an art collection worth $500, $10k, $100k, $10M, or $100M. The point remains the same at all levels and that is that there is a steep discount to values compared with a year ago. I look at art as something I love and a sunk cost but I'm a human being too and would be in denial if I were to say, "gee I like losing money." We love the art on our walls and most of us don't sell much if at all. But you have to recognize the environment one is in and as much as I'd love to be buying $500k paintings, it is a luxury that I can not enjoy. Big deal, life goes on. It doesn't prohibit me from studying the sales of such works and drawing my own conclusions. My apologies if it came out in a pompous way.
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lee3
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How the contemporary art bubble burst - The Times, by lee3 on May 13, 2009 16:41:18 GMT 1, I agree with much of what that author has written. I believe we will all be shocked at just how far prices retreat for art in the short term. And like every art correction in the past there will be those artists that never again see their previous heights of pricing power and I concur with the author on Hirst, Koons, and Murakami. I have my doubts however about Prince (maybe not the nurse paintings) and suspect his work may hold up much better than this author suggests. It's all a guessing game anyway but I find it fascinating. Mixed results for Sotheby's last evening and a gorgeous 14 inch Warhol flowers with the green stems (the most desirable) sold for $400k. Just 15 months ago an almost exact replica (4 red flowers with green stem at 14 inches) brought in over $1.1 million. That's a nearly 70% decline in just over a year. That is the reality of the situation. Though none of us likes what this does to the value of our own collections, it certainly makes the pursuit and acquisition of new treausres that we love more interesting than it has ever been.
I agree with much of what that author has written. I believe we will all be shocked at just how far prices retreat for art in the short term. And like every art correction in the past there will be those artists that never again see their previous heights of pricing power and I concur with the author on Hirst, Koons, and Murakami. I have my doubts however about Prince (maybe not the nurse paintings) and suspect his work may hold up much better than this author suggests. It's all a guessing game anyway but I find it fascinating. Mixed results for Sotheby's last evening and a gorgeous 14 inch Warhol flowers with the green stems (the most desirable) sold for $400k. Just 15 months ago an almost exact replica (4 red flowers with green stem at 14 inches) brought in over $1.1 million. That's a nearly 70% decline in just over a year. That is the reality of the situation. Though none of us likes what this does to the value of our own collections, it certainly makes the pursuit and acquisition of new treausres that we love more interesting than it has ever been.
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lee3
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Andipa Gallery - Banksy Show - 23rd April 2009, by lee3 on May 12, 2009 16:06:30 GMT 1, I don't have one and I've considered making a move on one more times than I can count. But, I do believe that one day those London, NY, Bristol canvases will be looked back upon as highly desirable and important. I adore their raw nature with the crude legs, weaponary spelling, the fact that he replaced Paris with Bristol and the barcode too. It was obviously a joke at the time but in hindsight the artist may be surprised at how correct he was to highlight Bristol.
However today the contemporary auctions kick into full gear. If price were no matter and I could pick one lot from each of the evening sales, here would be my choices (dare to dream):
www.artnet.com/PDB/PublicLotDetails.aspx?lot_id=426233001&page=1
www.artnet.com/PDB/PublicLotDetails.aspx?lot_id=426239371&page=1
I don't have one and I've considered making a move on one more times than I can count. But, I do believe that one day those London, NY, Bristol canvases will be looked back upon as highly desirable and important. I adore their raw nature with the crude legs, weaponary spelling, the fact that he replaced Paris with Bristol and the barcode too. It was obviously a joke at the time but in hindsight the artist may be surprised at how correct he was to highlight Bristol. However today the contemporary auctions kick into full gear. If price were no matter and I could pick one lot from each of the evening sales, here would be my choices (dare to dream): www.artnet.com/PDB/PublicLotDetails.aspx?lot_id=426233001&page=1www.artnet.com/PDB/PublicLotDetails.aspx?lot_id=426239371&page=1
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GET RICH QUICK! - Banksy, D*Face, Faile - 7th May, by lee3 on May 9, 2009 16:30:25 GMT 1, >>>> My advice would be that if you think something is too expensive either don't buy it, or make an offer.<<<<
I agree to a point. Regardless, a discussion board is going to generate buzz when prices like that are advertised. If you want to avoid this stuff, it's simple, don't advertise your prices like most galleries and simply have a price sheet on hand or distributed to those that specifically request one.
>>>Second, both the gallery and I are in the U.S. And unfortunately our scene is (in my opinion) way less developed than yours in England/Europe. I happen to be in Chicago where 99% of people have never heard of Banksy or street art of any kind.<<<<
LA has had 2 Banksy shows and the featured piece in this sale looks like it was from the Existencilism show.
>>>I'm sure a gallery like Carmichael wouldn't pitch its prices ridiculously high unless they knew people would buy it<<<<
I'll respectfully disagree on this point. Imho, a lot of galleries are taking the approach of listing works at 2X or more what they would be willing to sell said piece for in this climate so there should be significant negotiation room. I would not be satisfied with the old 20% discount on a lot of the prices I see today- more like a 50% discount and on some of the pieces in this sale even more.
As to that Happy Tank done over a Barcode Leopard, it's a very interesting piece that imho is priced moronically. I usually don't comment on prices other than to repeat facts or price history at auction but when a gallery is openly displaying the prices on a website, they are from my vantage point inviting comment both good and bad. What I find interesting about the works from the Existencilism show is that it appears that many of them were painted over again with a layer of white paint in between. A lot of those canvases that I've seen from '02 have a textured look from the haphazard way the white paint layer was done with the stencil on top. It's raw and I like it very much.
The price on the other hand, is a complete turn off and one that imho distances any serious collector from doing business. You have to have some sense of reality especially if you are going to openly advertise your prices unless you want to appear like you are are just trying to bait the greater fool. 3 of the canvases from the Existencilism show (a flower thrower, laugh now, and bomb hugger) were sold last year at auction in July for $240k total including premium (there were all 17 inches square whereas this happy tank is 24 inches square) and times were significantly better from a sellers point of view back then. Again, I don't know the gallery but as a buyer I can speak my mind and I would either mark that piece not for sale or list it at something within the realm of reality or you are simply inviting backlash from the more educated buyers in the marketplace.
>>>> My advice would be that if you think something is too expensive either don't buy it, or make an offer.<<<<
I agree to a point. Regardless, a discussion board is going to generate buzz when prices like that are advertised. If you want to avoid this stuff, it's simple, don't advertise your prices like most galleries and simply have a price sheet on hand or distributed to those that specifically request one.
>>>Second, both the gallery and I are in the U.S. And unfortunately our scene is (in my opinion) way less developed than yours in England/Europe. I happen to be in Chicago where 99% of people have never heard of Banksy or street art of any kind.<<<<
LA has had 2 Banksy shows and the featured piece in this sale looks like it was from the Existencilism show.
>>>I'm sure a gallery like Carmichael wouldn't pitch its prices ridiculously high unless they knew people would buy it<<<<
I'll respectfully disagree on this point. Imho, a lot of galleries are taking the approach of listing works at 2X or more what they would be willing to sell said piece for in this climate so there should be significant negotiation room. I would not be satisfied with the old 20% discount on a lot of the prices I see today- more like a 50% discount and on some of the pieces in this sale even more.
As to that Happy Tank done over a Barcode Leopard, it's a very interesting piece that imho is priced moronically. I usually don't comment on prices other than to repeat facts or price history at auction but when a gallery is openly displaying the prices on a website, they are from my vantage point inviting comment both good and bad. What I find interesting about the works from the Existencilism show is that it appears that many of them were painted over again with a layer of white paint in between. A lot of those canvases that I've seen from '02 have a textured look from the haphazard way the white paint layer was done with the stencil on top. It's raw and I like it very much.
The price on the other hand, is a complete turn off and one that imho distances any serious collector from doing business. You have to have some sense of reality especially if you are going to openly advertise your prices unless you want to appear like you are are just trying to bait the greater fool. 3 of the canvases from the Existencilism show (a flower thrower, laugh now, and bomb hugger) were sold last year at auction in July for $240k total including premium (there were all 17 inches square whereas this happy tank is 24 inches square) and times were significantly better from a sellers point of view back then. Again, I don't know the gallery but as a buyer I can speak my mind and I would either mark that piece not for sale or list it at something within the realm of reality or you are simply inviting backlash from the more educated buyers in the marketplace.
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lee3
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Best Banksy Original EVER?, by lee3 on May 8, 2009 17:22:10 GMT 1, still the think tank went for more didnt it? and its not even as good as the self portrait
There have been a few Think Tanks that have sold at auction and all of them were larger than the self portrait. As to which is the better composition, that is up to the viewer to decide. I myslef LOVE them both and would adore either in my collection. My wife and I are both avid scuba divers which is why Think Tank has always had a special place in our hearts. It is maddening to think just how many of his works I would add to my collection if I only had more money than time.
Banksy Title Drip dinner Medium spraypaint and household emulsion on cardboard Size Height 78.7 in.; Width 78.7 in. / Height 199.9 cm.; Width 199.9 cm. Misc. Signed Sale of Sotheby's Olympia: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 [Lot 510] Contemporary Art Estimate 10,000 - 15,000 BP (18,867 - 28,301 US$) Sold For 16,800 BP (31,111 US$) PREMIUM Currency Converter
Banksy Title Tank - Embracing couple Medium spray paint on steel Size Height 61 in.; Width 53.1 in. / Height 154.9 cm.; Width 134.9 cm. Sale of Bonhams London: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 [Lot 161] Vision 21 Estimate 5,000 - 8,000 BP (9,259 - 14,814 US$) Sold For 62,400 BP (115,555 US$) Currency Converter
Banksy Title Think tank Medium spray paint on steel Size Height 71.7 in.; Width 61.8 in. / Height 182.1 cm.; Width 157 cm. Sale of Bonhams London: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 [Lot 298] Vision 21 Estimate 20,000 - 30,000 BP (40,192 - 60,289 US$) Sold For 90,000 BP (180,144 US$) Currency Converter
Banksy Title Think tank Medium stencil and spray paint on steel Year of Work 2003 Size Height 75.6 in.; Width 70.5 in. / Height 192 cm.; Width 179.1 cm. Sale of Bonhams Knightsbridge: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 [Lot 359] Vision 21 Estimate 50,000 - 70,000 BP (50,000 - 70,000 US$) Sold For 156,000 BP (307,631 US$) PREMIUM Currency Converter
still the think tank went for more didnt it? and its not even as good as the self portrait There have been a few Think Tanks that have sold at auction and all of them were larger than the self portrait. As to which is the better composition, that is up to the viewer to decide. I myslef LOVE them both and would adore either in my collection. My wife and I are both avid scuba divers which is why Think Tank has always had a special place in our hearts. It is maddening to think just how many of his works I would add to my collection if I only had more money than time. Banksy Title Drip dinner Medium spraypaint and household emulsion on cardboard Size Height 78.7 in.; Width 78.7 in. / Height 199.9 cm.; Width 199.9 cm. Misc. Signed Sale of Sotheby's Olympia: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 [Lot 510] Contemporary Art Estimate 10,000 - 15,000 BP (18,867 - 28,301 US$) Sold For 16,800 BP (31,111 US$) PREMIUM Currency Converter Banksy Title Tank - Embracing couple Medium spray paint on steel Size Height 61 in.; Width 53.1 in. / Height 154.9 cm.; Width 134.9 cm. Sale of Bonhams London: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 [Lot 161] Vision 21 Estimate 5,000 - 8,000 BP (9,259 - 14,814 US$) Sold For 62,400 BP (115,555 US$) Currency Converter Banksy Title Think tank Medium spray paint on steel Size Height 71.7 in.; Width 61.8 in. / Height 182.1 cm.; Width 157 cm. Sale of Bonhams London: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 [Lot 298] Vision 21 Estimate 20,000 - 30,000 BP (40,192 - 60,289 US$) Sold For 90,000 BP (180,144 US$) Currency Converter Banksy Title Think tank Medium stencil and spray paint on steel Year of Work 2003 Size Height 75.6 in.; Width 70.5 in. / Height 192 cm.; Width 179.1 cm. Sale of Bonhams Knightsbridge: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 [Lot 359] Vision 21 Estimate 50,000 - 70,000 BP (50,000 - 70,000 US$) Sold For 156,000 BP (307,631 US$) PREMIUM Currency Converter
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lee3
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Best Banksy Original EVER?, by lee3 on May 8, 2009 17:02:37 GMT 1, iloveartonwalls that looks amazing how much did it go for?
Banksy Title Self-portrait Medium oil and spray paint on canvas laid on board Size Height 48 in.; Width 48 in. / Height 121.9 cm.; Width 121.9 cm. Sale of Bonhams London: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 [Lot 40] Vision 21 Estimate 30,000 - 40,000 BP (60,289 - 80,385 US$) Sold For 198,000 BP (396,317 US$) Currency Converter
Though I suspect it would go for quite a bit less if it were offered for sale today.
iloveartonwalls that looks amazing how much did it go for? Banksy Title Self-portrait Medium oil and spray paint on canvas laid on board Size Height 48 in.; Width 48 in. / Height 121.9 cm.; Width 121.9 cm. Sale of Bonhams London: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 [Lot 40] Vision 21 Estimate 30,000 - 40,000 BP (60,289 - 80,385 US$) Sold For 198,000 BP (396,317 US$) Currency Converter Though I suspect it would go for quite a bit less if it were offered for sale today.
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lee3
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Best Banksy Original EVER?, by lee3 on May 8, 2009 16:57:46 GMT 1, I'm a sucker for Fallen Angel but if somehow i was able to have any single composition in my possession, i'd gladly take this "one":
I'm a sucker for Fallen Angel but if somehow i was able to have any single composition in my possession, i'd gladly take this "one":
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lee3
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Andipa Gallery - Banksy Show - 23rd April 2009, by lee3 on May 5, 2009 22:47:28 GMT 1, >>>But after spending a bit of time in the gallery, it was clear to see how welcoming and friendly the Andipa Gallery was to every single person that came in the door <<<
I'll echo those comments. I've bought art from dealers around the world and must say their customer service and attention to detail is among the best in the business. Jen and Acoris both could not have been more patient or friendly helping me a few months ago and I look forward to doing business again with them in the future.
>>>who has a price list for this? can anybody make a post? <<<
I have it but that is not information one typically posts online. You can email or call the gallery and I'm sure they will reply to you in short order.
>>>But after spending a bit of time in the gallery, it was clear to see how welcoming and friendly the Andipa Gallery was to every single person that came in the door <<<
I'll echo those comments. I've bought art from dealers around the world and must say their customer service and attention to detail is among the best in the business. Jen and Acoris both could not have been more patient or friendly helping me a few months ago and I look forward to doing business again with them in the future.
>>>who has a price list for this? can anybody make a post? <<<
I have it but that is not information one typically posts online. You can email or call the gallery and I'm sure they will reply to you in short order.
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lee3
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Andipa Gallery - Banksy Show - 23rd April 2009, by lee3 on May 2, 2009 16:14:39 GMT 1, I don't believe that is in the show Afro because that is the image at the top of my wish list. How did you ever part with that composition?
I don't believe that is in the show Afro because that is the image at the top of my wish list. How did you ever part with that composition?
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lee3
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Pest Control COA • Banksy Print Authentication, by lee3 on May 1, 2009 17:50:57 GMT 1, Wow, that's a interesting development. You can't be anymore clear than that.
Wow, that's a interesting development. You can't be anymore clear than that.
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lee3
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I Bought Andy Warhol, by lee3 on May 1, 2009 17:41:32 GMT 1, The follow up, I sold Andy Warhol (too soon), gets released this September so that's my recommendation. Sellfishly/nervously I'm particularly excited to read the follow up as I'm told there is a story in there involving me and the mrs. There was some fallout from the book above as you can expect given some of the stories he recounted. I agree, it's a fascinating and very easy read. The prices that he quotes in that book are amazing too. I 've heard some wonderful stories from him of Warhol shows in the 80s where the little Mao's (12x10 inches) were readily available at $5k each. They top ticked the market at the sale of the David Whitney estate a few years ago with a gorgeous one selling for over $2.5 million. And today, there are plenty on the market at the moment for 20% of that price.
The follow up, I sold Andy Warhol (too soon), gets released this September so that's my recommendation. Sellfishly/nervously I'm particularly excited to read the follow up as I'm told there is a story in there involving me and the mrs. There was some fallout from the book above as you can expect given some of the stories he recounted. I agree, it's a fascinating and very easy read. The prices that he quotes in that book are amazing too. I 've heard some wonderful stories from him of Warhol shows in the 80s where the little Mao's (12x10 inches) were readily available at $5k each. They top ticked the market at the sale of the David Whitney estate a few years ago with a gorgeous one selling for over $2.5 million. And today, there are plenty on the market at the moment for 20% of that price.
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lee3
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Some uncommon Banksys, by lee3 on Apr 29, 2009 16:13:24 GMT 1, >>>Could easily spend a couople of hours slowly going over each of those<<<
I did the same and must have added 30 of them at least to my faves wthin flickr. At some point, I've got to get something that has a bunch of the drips like the photo 2 posts above. In many ways that dirty look gives my pair of eyes more pleasure than perfect stencils.
>>>Could easily spend a couople of hours slowly going over each of those<<<
I did the same and must have added 30 of them at least to my faves wthin flickr. At some point, I've got to get something that has a bunch of the drips like the photo 2 posts above. In many ways that dirty look gives my pair of eyes more pleasure than perfect stencils.
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lee3
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Some uncommon Banksys, by lee3 on Apr 26, 2009 16:54:26 GMT 1, >>>>If I'm not mistaken that 'System Error' is currently available on the secondary market<<<
It's been available at Laz for some time. If memory serves (which it usually doesn't) that was the piece from Banksy they were going to use for the raffle last year which had to be canceled due to UK lottery laws or something.
Given a choice of any of the above, I'll gladly take that enormous Fallen Angel with the flags message in the top left. I had never looked very closely at the pieces that were removed from the side of that big trailer and just noticed the Sid Vicious stencil on there too. odd
>>>>If I'm not mistaken that 'System Error' is currently available on the secondary market<<<
It's been available at Laz for some time. If memory serves (which it usually doesn't) that was the piece from Banksy they were going to use for the raffle last year which had to be canceled due to UK lottery laws or something.
Given a choice of any of the above, I'll gladly take that enormous Fallen Angel with the flags message in the top left. I had never looked very closely at the pieces that were removed from the side of that big trailer and just noticed the Sid Vicious stencil on there too. odd
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lee3
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Andipa Gallery - Banksy Show - 23rd April 2009, by lee3 on Apr 25, 2009 16:30:41 GMT 1, nice shots butterfly, thx for posting the link.
nice shots butterfly, thx for posting the link.
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lee3
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ART GUITARS - D*Face, Pure Evil, Inkie, Plus More, by lee3 on Apr 21, 2009 18:33:02 GMT 1, Nice work above. Odd as I was just admiring this guitar earlier this morning...
Lot Description Wayne Thiebaud (b. 1920) Guitar signed and dated twice 'Thiebaud 1962' (lower center); signed again, inscribed and dated again 'Thiebaud 1962 worked on 2002' (on the reverse) oil on canvas 40 x 34 in. (101.6 x 86.4 cm.) Painted in 1962 and 2002. Estimate $900,000 - $1,200,000
Nice work above. Odd as I was just admiring this guitar earlier this morning... Lot Description Wayne Thiebaud (b. 1920) Guitar signed and dated twice 'Thiebaud 1962' (lower center); signed again, inscribed and dated again 'Thiebaud 1962 worked on 2002' (on the reverse) oil on canvas 40 x 34 in. (101.6 x 86.4 cm.) Painted in 1962 and 2002. Estimate $900,000 - $1,200,000
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lee3
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Andipa Gallery - Banksy Show - 23rd April 2009, by lee3 on Apr 21, 2009 17:19:11 GMT 1, >>>but its not an official Banksy event, why are you making it sound like it is? It is a secondary market resellers show, end of!!! <<<<
And that matters to you how? From my vantage point, it's nice collection of Banksy work and if I lived anywhere near London, I would certainly be there tomorrow night. Does it bother you to visit museums since their collections are pieced together and not the original release or show that the artist intended? Or is it simply the fact that the work if for sale? Regardless, I don't have many (if any) rules that would prohibit me from going to see a collection of work from an artist I admire. If I understand you correctly, you would loathe the current Picasso show at Gagosian which is a shame from my vantage point.
www.gagosian.com/exhibitions/2009-03-26_pablo-picasso/#/images/1/
>>>but its not an official Banksy event, why are you making it sound like it is? It is a secondary market resellers show, end of!!! <<<< And that matters to you how? From my vantage point, it's nice collection of Banksy work and if I lived anywhere near London, I would certainly be there tomorrow night. Does it bother you to visit museums since their collections are pieced together and not the original release or show that the artist intended? Or is it simply the fact that the work if for sale? Regardless, I don't have many (if any) rules that would prohibit me from going to see a collection of work from an artist I admire. If I understand you correctly, you would loathe the current Picasso show at Gagosian which is a shame from my vantage point. www.gagosian.com/exhibitions/2009-03-26_pablo-picasso/#/images/1/
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Why you should buy art as an investment..., by lee3 on Apr 17, 2009 16:15:04 GMT 1, They are by no means the only art fund around and launching with $25M and taking contributions as small as $10k is not exactly a position of strength imho. That reads more as an advertisement to hope/help fund thier business to my eyes than a serious venture.
They are by no means the only art fund around and launching with $25M and taking contributions as small as $10k is not exactly a position of strength imho. That reads more as an advertisement to hope/help fund thier business to my eyes than a serious venture.
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lee3
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Best music related art item you own., by lee3 on Apr 13, 2009 20:01:37 GMT 1, A Gottfried Helnwein painting of John Lennon. It looks pitch black by day and is very subtle on dark blue that is rather difficult to light. It's from his Fire series which are portraits of 20th century icons from all walks of life.
A Gottfried Helnwein painting of John Lennon. It looks pitch black by day and is very subtle on dark blue that is rather difficult to light. It's from his Fire series which are portraits of 20th century icons from all walks of life.
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lee3
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Banksy Kate Moss Print, by lee3 on Apr 13, 2009 19:15:43 GMT 1, >>>What is incredible is that they were (and still no that far from) a similar price to the Warhol Marilyn - although there are around 3000 (?) of these.<<<<
There are/were 10 different Warhol Marilyn images within the edition and each numbered to 250 for a total of 2500. I don't follow prints all that closely but do know there are 2 or 3 images from the Warhol set of 10 that carry a LARGE premium to the other 7 or 8.
>>>can someone explain why the exact same image on canvas carries such a premium over the same image on paper (edition size aside)? <<
Canvas is always more desirable because it is much more robust than paper and can often weather direct light much better for the long term. Also, as you noted that the canvas edition is only 5. Further, that was #1 of 5 which would theoretically carry the largest premium within the edition.
>>>What is incredible is that they were (and still no that far from) a similar price to the Warhol Marilyn - although there are around 3000 (?) of these.<<<<
There are/were 10 different Warhol Marilyn images within the edition and each numbered to 250 for a total of 2500. I don't follow prints all that closely but do know there are 2 or 3 images from the Warhol set of 10 that carry a LARGE premium to the other 7 or 8.
>>>can someone explain why the exact same image on canvas carries such a premium over the same image on paper (edition size aside)? <<
Canvas is always more desirable because it is much more robust than paper and can often weather direct light much better for the long term. Also, as you noted that the canvas edition is only 5. Further, that was #1 of 5 which would theoretically carry the largest premium within the edition.
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Banksy Kate Moss Print, by lee3 on Apr 13, 2009 18:19:51 GMT 1, >>>What did these sell for at the peak? Something like 90K right? <<<
At the very peak for this image, it cost as much as a Warhol screenprint of Marilyn would cost you.
Title Kate Moss Medium screenprint Year of Work 2005 Size Height 20.7 in.; Width 20.7 in. / Height 52.6 cm.; Width 52.6 cm. Edition 30/50 Misc. Signed Sale of Bonhams London: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 [Lot 20] Urban Art Estimate 20,000 - 30,000 BP (39,238 - 58,858 US$) Sold For 96,000 BP (190,930 US$) PREMIUM
To be fair, just 2 months later (April of '08) the price had dropped SUBSTANTIALLY
Banksy Title Kate moss Medium screenprint Year of Work 2005 Size Height 20.7 in.; Width 20.7 in. / Height 52.6 cm.; Width 52.6 cm. Edition 17/50 Misc. Signed Sale of Bonhams Knightsbridge: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 [Lot 382] Vision 21 Estimate 30,000 - 50,000 BP (30,000 - 50,000 US$) Sold For 50,400 BP (99,388 US$) PREMIUM Currency Converter
And now you can even pick it up on canvas for less
Banksy Title Kate Moss Description Banksy (British, born 1975)'Kate Moss', 2005signed, dated and numbered '1/5' More ... Medium screenprint on canvas Year of Work 2005 Size Height 31.9 in.; Width 31.9 in. / Height 81 cm.; Width 81 cm. Edition 1/5 Misc. Signed Sale of Bonhams London: Thursday, October 23, 2008 [Lot 103] Urban Art Estimate 50,000 - 70,000 BP (86,820 - 121,548 US$) Sold For 66,000 BP (107,878 US$) Currency Converter
I maintain given all of the buy ins of this image at auction as of late that 20k is a very fair offer for the edition of 50. It could even be considered by some on the high side for one from the set of 6 from the edition of 20. But, that's just me and everyone is entitiled to their own opinion.
>>>What did these sell for at the peak? Something like 90K right? <<<
At the very peak for this image, it cost as much as a Warhol screenprint of Marilyn would cost you.
Title Kate Moss Medium screenprint Year of Work 2005 Size Height 20.7 in.; Width 20.7 in. / Height 52.6 cm.; Width 52.6 cm. Edition 30/50 Misc. Signed Sale of Bonhams London: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 [Lot 20] Urban Art Estimate 20,000 - 30,000 BP (39,238 - 58,858 US$) Sold For 96,000 BP (190,930 US$) PREMIUM
To be fair, just 2 months later (April of '08) the price had dropped SUBSTANTIALLY
Banksy Title Kate moss Medium screenprint Year of Work 2005 Size Height 20.7 in.; Width 20.7 in. / Height 52.6 cm.; Width 52.6 cm. Edition 17/50 Misc. Signed Sale of Bonhams Knightsbridge: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 [Lot 382] Vision 21 Estimate 30,000 - 50,000 BP (30,000 - 50,000 US$) Sold For 50,400 BP (99,388 US$) PREMIUM Currency Converter
And now you can even pick it up on canvas for less
Banksy Title Kate Moss Description Banksy (British, born 1975)'Kate Moss', 2005signed, dated and numbered '1/5' More ... Medium screenprint on canvas Year of Work 2005 Size Height 31.9 in.; Width 31.9 in. / Height 81 cm.; Width 81 cm. Edition 1/5 Misc. Signed Sale of Bonhams London: Thursday, October 23, 2008 [Lot 103] Urban Art Estimate 50,000 - 70,000 BP (86,820 - 121,548 US$) Sold For 66,000 BP (107,878 US$) Currency Converter
I maintain given all of the buy ins of this image at auction as of late that 20k is a very fair offer for the edition of 50. It could even be considered by some on the high side for one from the set of 6 from the edition of 20. But, that's just me and everyone is entitiled to their own opinion.
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