rbk
New Member
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March 2015
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The UK's EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016., by rbk on Mar 26, 2016 18:13:48 GMT 1, what is quite interesting about this is that generally in most of our lives and with the government we have moved away from centralisation it is only Europe that is trying to bring in more centralisation.
most of the given reasons for staying were the main reasons for joining. jobs, trade economics etc. what is interesting is that the centralisers moved away from those base principals of the economics and trade and they are trying to create a european super state without a real mandate the problem with that are the size and the economic differences.
Re the in\out vote in my view is that I believe there is one really decisive factor. Which is motivation. I believe and not based on much admittedly is that the out vote will be more highly motivated to vote and therefore will vote and within the i vote there will be an element of apathy and not as much motivation to vote. so for me aside from my personal opinion I believe the out vote will win.
The current terrorist threat and refugee\migrant movement only exasperates the fact and highlights the problems in a weirdly attempted centralisation.
Think this will actually be a massive wake up call for Europe and one of the bet things that will happen to it. As it is a mess. Britain will not sever its ties with Europe and Europe will not sever its ties with Britain. Neither can afford it.
Trade will not stop etc etc etc. this is all balony. Europe need the UK's money, big german companies need our market and the UK needs Europes trade.
But for me and not saying my personal choice just looking at it cleanly. The vote in my view will be too leave. it may or may not be what most people want but it is in my view what the majority who vote will choose.
what is quite interesting about this is that generally in most of our lives and with the government we have moved away from centralisation it is only Europe that is trying to bring in more centralisation.
most of the given reasons for staying were the main reasons for joining. jobs, trade economics etc. what is interesting is that the centralisers moved away from those base principals of the economics and trade and they are trying to create a european super state without a real mandate the problem with that are the size and the economic differences.
Re the in\out vote in my view is that I believe there is one really decisive factor. Which is motivation. I believe and not based on much admittedly is that the out vote will be more highly motivated to vote and therefore will vote and within the i vote there will be an element of apathy and not as much motivation to vote. so for me aside from my personal opinion I believe the out vote will win.
The current terrorist threat and refugee\migrant movement only exasperates the fact and highlights the problems in a weirdly attempted centralisation.
Think this will actually be a massive wake up call for Europe and one of the bet things that will happen to it. As it is a mess. Britain will not sever its ties with Europe and Europe will not sever its ties with Britain. Neither can afford it.
Trade will not stop etc etc etc. this is all balony. Europe need the UK's money, big german companies need our market and the UK needs Europes trade.
But for me and not saying my personal choice just looking at it cleanly. The vote in my view will be too leave. it may or may not be what most people want but it is in my view what the majority who vote will choose.
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Deleted
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The UK's EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016., by Deleted on Mar 26, 2016 21:36:42 GMT 1,
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Deleted
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January 1970
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The UK's EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016., by Deleted on Mar 30, 2016 23:51:45 GMT 1, Thought this was interesting, goes beyond the usual myopic nationalist thinking that news media like to trot out.
The European Union is the first and the most ambitious attempt at establishing a new form of democracy where local and global dimensions can coexist. Building a common European identity is an extraordinary challenge and is now under attack. It requires ancient and well-rooted countries and nations to reduce their sovereignty not based on the hegemony of one language, culture or religion, but on the willingness to organise cultural life around an intrinsically complex identity. Despite European integration has prioritised the economic dimension, Europe is first and foremost a cultural and political project and its future depends on cultural factors in the broad sense: on how different countries and nations can come
together around a single political, social and economic project based on and respectful of cultural diversities, fulfilment of human right for the current and future generations, acknowledgment of the limits to growth and adoption of a sustainable way of living.
It is a possible future for which Europe has the needed assets, tangible and intangible (democracy, rights, rule of law, freedom of expression, welfare/solidarity, education, environmental sensitivity, public spaces, etc.) As important, Europe has developed a potentially suited culture to bring it to life.
Nevertheless, without a substantial shift toward prioritizing the need to build on our societyโs shared assets -tangible and intangible- and invest in adequate skills and mindsets, this opportunity will be missed.
Eat the rich
peace
Thought this was interesting, goes beyond the usual myopic nationalist thinking that news media like to trot out.
The European Union is the first and the most ambitious attempt at establishing a new form of democracy where local and global dimensions can coexist. Building a common European identity is an extraordinary challenge and is now under attack. It requires ancient and well-rooted countries and nations to reduce their sovereignty not based on the hegemony of one language, culture or religion, but on the willingness to organise cultural life around an intrinsically complex identity. Despite European integration has prioritised the economic dimension, Europe is first and foremost a cultural and political project and its future depends on cultural factors in the broad sense: on how different countries and nations can come
together around a single political, social and economic project based on and respectful of cultural diversities, fulfilment of human right for the current and future generations, acknowledgment of the limits to growth and adoption of a sustainable way of living.
It is a possible future for which Europe has the needed assets, tangible and intangible (democracy, rights, rule of law, freedom of expression, welfare/solidarity, education, environmental sensitivity, public spaces, etc.) As important, Europe has developed a potentially suited culture to bring it to life.
Nevertheless, without a substantial shift toward prioritizing the need to build on our societyโs shared assets -tangible and intangible- and invest in adequate skills and mindsets, this opportunity will be missed.
Eat the rich
peace
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thomasmer
Junior Member
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July 2014
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The UK's EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016., by thomasmer on Mar 31, 2016 3:16:26 GMT 1, Stay in, the far right, who would follow those pricks.
Stay in, the far right, who would follow those pricks.
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
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January 1970
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The UK's EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016., by Deleted on Mar 31, 2016 10:04:42 GMT 1, The EU as it is today is far from democratic and people in charge of the EU are on a power trip. Some say they are Bilderberg puppets or plants and a lot of failed and corrupt politicians have gotten important positions in the EU gravy train. There is a lot of disinformation promoted by the out and also the in campaign groups.
A lot of pro EU groups etc are only pro because they get some sort of funding or financial support from the EU. Just pro EU for selfish reasons.
The EU wastes taxpayers money on churning out pro EU propaganda for example, www.captaineuro.eu/comic-strips/angela-merkel-learns-to-bluff/
Having no borders is a good concept. If everyone thought the same way. In reality not everyone has the same ideology or cultural values and pandering to the less than democratic ones is always a big mistake.
The EU as it is today is far from democratic and people in charge of the EU are on a power trip. Some say they are Bilderberg puppets or plants and a lot of failed and corrupt politicians have gotten important positions in the EU gravy train. There is a lot of disinformation promoted by the out and also the in campaign groups. A lot of pro EU groups etc are only pro because they get some sort of funding or financial support from the EU. Just pro EU for selfish reasons. The EU wastes taxpayers money on churning out pro EU propaganda for example, www.captaineuro.eu/comic-strips/angela-merkel-learns-to-bluff/ Having no borders is a good concept. If everyone thought the same way. In reality not everyone has the same ideology or cultural values and pandering to the less than democratic ones is always a big mistake. |
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The UK's EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016., by Daniel Silk on Mar 31, 2016 11:42:37 GMT 1, Thought this was interesting, goes beyond the usual myopic nationalist thinking that news media like to trot out. The European Union is the first and the most ambitious attempt at establishing a new form of democracy where local and global dimensions can coexist. Building a common European identity is an extraordinary challenge and is now under attack. It requires ancient and well-rooted countries and nations to reduce their sovereignty not based on the hegemony of one language, culture or religion, but on the willingness to organise cultural life around an intrinsically complex identity. Despite European integration has prioritised the economic dimension, Europe is first and foremost a cultural and political project and its future depends on cultural factors in the broad sense: on how different countries and nations can come together around a single political, social and economic project based on and respectful of cultural diversities, fulfilment of human right for the current and future generations, acknowledgment of the limits to growth and adoption of a sustainable way of living. It is a possible future for which Europe has the needed assets, tangible and intangible (democracy, rights, rule of law, freedom of expression, welfare/solidarity, education, environmental sensitivity, public spaces, etc.) As important, Europe has developed a potentially suited culture to bring it to life. Nevertheless, without a substantial shift toward prioritizing the need to build on our societyโs shared assets -tangible and intangible- and invest in adequate skills and mindsets, this opportunity will be missed. Eat the rich peace
Sounds like a very good reason to leave the EU to me.
Thought this was interesting, goes beyond the usual myopic nationalist thinking that news media like to trot out. The European Union is the first and the most ambitious attempt at establishing a new form of democracy where local and global dimensions can coexist. Building a common European identity is an extraordinary challenge and is now under attack. It requires ancient and well-rooted countries and nations to reduce their sovereignty not based on the hegemony of one language, culture or religion, but on the willingness to organise cultural life around an intrinsically complex identity. Despite European integration has prioritised the economic dimension, Europe is first and foremost a cultural and political project and its future depends on cultural factors in the broad sense: on how different countries and nations can come together around a single political, social and economic project based on and respectful of cultural diversities, fulfilment of human right for the current and future generations, acknowledgment of the limits to growth and adoption of a sustainable way of living. It is a possible future for which Europe has the needed assets, tangible and intangible (democracy, rights, rule of law, freedom of expression, welfare/solidarity, education, environmental sensitivity, public spaces, etc.) As important, Europe has developed a potentially suited culture to bring it to life. Nevertheless, without a substantial shift toward prioritizing the need to build on our societyโs shared assets -tangible and intangible- and invest in adequate skills and mindsets, this opportunity will be missed. Eat the rich peace Sounds like a very good reason to leave the EU to me. |
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overend
New Member
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October 2013
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The UK's EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016., by overend on Mar 31, 2016 15:52:42 GMT 1, Please someone do a piece with a Port Talbot nail being driven into an EU coffin.
Please someone do a piece with a Port Talbot nail being driven into an EU coffin.
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Number48
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July 2015
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The UK's EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016., by Number48 on Apr 7, 2016 23:24:42 GMT 1, Referendum of the United Kingdom's membership of the European Union.  Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or Leave the European Union? This will probably been the most important vote in our lifetime for those living in the UK, so its interesting to hear people views on this thread. Also to hear what people living in other parts of the World think is the best direction for the UK to go. Of course please place your VOTE. Interesting to get an idea of what the Street Art scene thinks on this vote and how it might differ from the general public? what do you think? Thank you 
Why has this thread not been placed in the chat forum?
Referendum of the United Kingdom's membership of the European Union. Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or Leave the European Union? This will probably been the most important vote in our lifetime for those living in the UK, so its interesting to hear people views on this thread. Also to hear what people living in other parts of the World think is the best direction for the UK to go. Of course please place your VOTE. Interesting to get an idea of what the Street Art scene thinks on this vote and how it might differ from the general public? what do you think? Thank you Why has this thread not been placed in the chat forum? |
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The UK's EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016., by Daniel Silk on Apr 13, 2016 12:56:35 GMT 1, Have you had one of these come through the door yet?
How can they think its right to spend public money on these? is it any different than David doing something similar before an elections producing things saying - Why the Government believes that voting for David Cameron is the best decision for the UK?
I think this will only move more people into voting LEAVE.
Have you had one of these come through the door yet? How can they think its right to spend public money on these? is it any different than David doing something similar before an elections producing things saying - Why the Government believes that voting for David Cameron is the best decision for the UK? I think this will only move more people into voting LEAVE. |
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tartarus
Junior Member
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February 2013
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The UK's EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016., by tartarus on Apr 13, 2016 13:05:20 GMT 1, Mines readied to go back.
Mines readied to go back. |
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tartarus
Junior Member
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February 2013
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The UK's EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016., by tartarus on Apr 13, 2016 13:07:34 GMT 1, Oh jesus!!!! i just remembered i have a few cut up stamps from Five. May have to add one of those for fun.
Oh jesus!!!! i just remembered i have a few cut up stamps from Five. May have to add one of those for fun.
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.dappy
Full Member
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December 2010
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The UK's EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016., by .dappy on Apr 13, 2016 13:18:37 GMT 1, ... the govt of whatever persuassion has posted a booklet to each household at each of the referendums that we have had ...
... just a case of the Brexit people whinging & crying - as they have no facts of how it would be better to leave, and therefore would not be able to fill ... even a leaflet ...
... 'we should not be ruled from abroad' is all they can SHOUT.
... what have the Romans ever done for us? 
... and have a look at the assize system and where that came from
... the govt of whatever persuassion has posted a booklet to each household at each of the referendums that we have had ... ... just a case of the Brexit people whinging & crying - as they have no facts of how it would be better to leave, and therefore would not be able to fill ... even a leaflet ... ... 'we should not be ruled from abroad' is all they can SHOUT. ... what have the Romans ever done for us? ... and have a look at the assize system and where that came from |
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Deleted
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January 1970
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The UK's EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016., by Deleted on Apr 13, 2016 13:27:31 GMT 1, I have no problem with the leaflets at all. For me it is not breaking any type of 'purdah' type rules and it's legitimate for the government to set out its position. I don't understand the hostility around it at all. The only slightly strange thing is it being in leaflet form. Probably easier to use the ยฃ9m to promote a link online.
I have no problem with the leaflets at all. For me it is not breaking any type of 'purdah' type rules and it's legitimate for the government to set out its position. I don't understand the hostility around it at all. The only slightly strange thing is it being in leaflet form. Probably easier to use the ยฃ9m to promote a link online.
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tartarus
Junior Member
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February 2013
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The UK's EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016., by tartarus on Apr 13, 2016 13:36:36 GMT 1, you don't see the problem with a one sided debate? or public money used to attempt to influence the people to vote the way the government wants them to?
My issue with it is if they give people a choice, why do they then try to expose everyone to their narrow perspective on the issue? That seems a like an act of desperation as they may not get what they hoped for.
you don't see the problem with a one sided debate? or public money used to attempt to influence the people to vote the way the government wants them to?
My issue with it is if they give people a choice, why do they then try to expose everyone to their narrow perspective on the issue? That seems a like an act of desperation as they may not get what they hoped for.
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tartarus
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,628
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February 2013
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The UK's EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016., by tartarus on Apr 13, 2016 13:39:25 GMT 1, ... the govt of whatever persuassion has posted a booklet to each household at each of the referendums that we have had ... ... just a case of the Brexit people whinging & crying - as they have no facts of how it would be better to leave, and therefore would not be able to fill ... even a leaflet ... ... 'we should not be ruled from abroad' is all they can SHOUT. ... what have the Romans ever done for us? ... and have a look at the assize system and where that came from
Immigrants will take over the whole country
Tourists will never ever come here again
and no one in europe will ever trade with us again.
;-)
... the govt of whatever persuassion has posted a booklet to each household at each of the referendums that we have had ... ... just a case of the Brexit people whinging & crying - as they have no facts of how it would be better to leave, and therefore would not be able to fill ... even a leaflet ... ... 'we should not be ruled from abroad' is all they can SHOUT. ... what have the Romans ever done for us? ... and have a look at the assize system and where that came from ha ha, as opposed to Immigrants will take over the whole country Tourists will never ever come here again and no one in europe will ever trade with us again. ;-) |
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.dappy
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December 2010
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The UK's EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016., by .dappy on Apr 13, 2016 14:04:15 GMT 1, โโโโ you see ... drivel โโโโ
โโโโ you see ... drivel โโโโ
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The UK's EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016., by Coach on Apr 18, 2016 18:58:16 GMT 1, So, Tory government says we should stay in.
Labour support staying in.
SNP say stay in.
Lib Dems say we are safer and more prosperous in.
Treasury tell us could be 8p extra on base rate of income tax if leave.
CBI (170,000 businesses represented) say stay in.
Institute of Directors strongly say stay in.
Bank of England has warned of dangers of leaving.
TUC says Britain poorer out if Europe.
Surely those that want out must stop, pause, see the broad spectrum of organisations that say we should stay in, and question their beliefs?
So, Tory government says we should stay in.
Labour support staying in.
SNP say stay in.
Lib Dems say we are safer and more prosperous in.
Treasury tell us could be 8p extra on base rate of income tax if leave.
CBI (170,000 businesses represented) say stay in.
Institute of Directors strongly say stay in.
Bank of England has warned of dangers of leaving.
TUC says Britain poorer out if Europe.
Surely those that want out must stop, pause, see the broad spectrum of organisations that say we should stay in, and question their beliefs?
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Deleted
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January 1970
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The UK's EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016., by Deleted on Apr 18, 2016 19:15:16 GMT 1, So, Tory government says we should stay in. Labour support staying in. SNP say stay in. Lib Dems say we are safer and more prosperous in. Treasury tell us could be 8p extra on base rate of income tax if leave. CBI (170,000 businesses represented) say stay in. Institute of Directors strongly say stay in. Bank of England has warned of dangers of leaving. TUC says Britain poorer out if Europe. Surely those that want out must stop, pause, see the broad spectrum of organisations that say we should stay in, and question their beliefs?
If anyone thinks a magic wand will be waved and all our 'problems' will be solved then you're bonkers. Don't blame the EU for our Govts incompetence, past, present and future.
So, Tory government says we should stay in. Labour support staying in. SNP say stay in. Lib Dems say we are safer and more prosperous in. Treasury tell us could be 8p extra on base rate of income tax if leave. CBI (170,000 businesses represented) say stay in. Institute of Directors strongly say stay in. Bank of England has warned of dangers of leaving. TUC says Britain poorer out if Europe. Surely those that want out must stop, pause, see the broad spectrum of organisations that say we should stay in, and question their beliefs? And do people really think Farage, Johnson, Galloway, Gove, IDS etc, and proprietors of newspapers ( Murdoch, Desmond, Barclay Brothers, Lord Rothermere etc ) have our interests at heart? Do not give more power to those that desperately crave it. If anyone thinks a magic wand will be waved and all our 'problems' will be solved then you're bonkers. Don't blame the EU for our Govts incompetence, past, present and future. |
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onetwothree
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September 2015
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The UK's EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016., by onetwothree on Apr 18, 2016 19:28:26 GMT 1, 100% for staying in the EU as a Brit living in Sweden. The implications for the millions of expats will be huge and the impact on business big and small trading into the single market will cost us far more than our ego.
Agreed. I want to stay so can move to Netherlands next year. At the moment there's no visa or any restriction on work or anything but that will all change. They don't really mention the freedom of movement too much in the debate but for many it's the most important.
And yeah Alot of people on the UK do have this ego when it comes to Europe, seem to think they're better than them. But we're not. We're all the same, apart from most of us Brits know the one language and it's common in the continent to be bilingual.
Would be shit if we voted out.
100% for staying in the EU as a Brit living in Sweden. The implications for the millions of expats will be huge and the impact on business big and small trading into the single market will cost us far more than our ego. Agreed. I want to stay so can move to Netherlands next year. At the moment there's no visa or any restriction on work or anything but that will all change. They don't really mention the freedom of movement too much in the debate but for many it's the most important. And yeah Alot of people on the UK do have this ego when it comes to Europe, seem to think they're better than them. But we're not. We're all the same, apart from most of us Brits know the one language and it's common in the continent to be bilingual. Would be shit if we voted out. |
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RoboJ
Artist
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July 2015
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The UK's EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016., by RoboJ on Apr 19, 2016 6:26:17 GMT 1, So, Tory government says we should stay in. Labour support staying in. SNP say stay in. Lib Dems say we are safer and more prosperous in. Treasury tell us could be 8p extra on base rate of income tax if leave. CBI (170,000 businesses represented) say stay in. Institute of Directors strongly say stay in. Bank of England has warned of dangers of leaving. TUC says Britain poorer out if Europe. Surely those that want out must stop, pause, see the broad spectrum of organisations that say we should stay in, and question their beliefs?
Nail on the head there coach.
That said I wish there was an independent body that could give all the facts and consiquences of staying and leaving so we can make an educated decision rather than gut feelings.
So, Tory government says we should stay in. Labour support staying in. SNP say stay in. Lib Dems say we are safer and more prosperous in. Treasury tell us could be 8p extra on base rate of income tax if leave. CBI (170,000 businesses represented) say stay in. Institute of Directors strongly say stay in. Bank of England has warned of dangers of leaving. TUC says Britain poorer out if Europe. Surely those that want out must stop, pause, see the broad spectrum of organisations that say we should stay in, and question their beliefs? Nail on the head there coach. That said I wish there was an independent body that could give all the facts and consiquences of staying and leaving so we can make an educated decision rather than gut feelings. |
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Deleted
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January 1970
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The UK's EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016., by Deleted on Apr 19, 2016 9:39:59 GMT 1, The EU is run by criminals anyway. Funny how no out politician inc the likes of MEP Hannan have made a big deal of all the missing millions or billions and stolen money by the EU fraud that goes on in Brussels, plus the EU not publishing full accounts.
Plus the EU seems to think that Merkel and some frog are running the show.
The EU is run by criminals anyway. Funny how no out politician inc the likes of MEP Hannan have made a big deal of all the missing millions or billions and stolen money by the EU fraud that goes on in Brussels, plus the EU not publishing full accounts.
Plus the EU seems to think that Merkel and some frog are running the show.
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tartarus
Junior Member
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February 2013
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The UK's EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016., by tartarus on Apr 20, 2016 10:41:54 GMT 1, โโโโ you see ... drivel โโโโ
Also worth mentioning, your comprehensive and compelling argument hasn't really done much to change my mind, but i guess thats the "tagline" mentality without much to back it up.
And by the way, yes of course thats drivel!!! Its 3 things the stay campaign are using to fear monger people into voting stay!!!
โโโโ you see ... drivel โโโโ Lol that was bold of you not to quote me in your comment! But i guess thats the stay campaign and their love of a one sided debate showing itself. Also worth mentioning, your comprehensive and compelling argument hasn't really done much to change my mind, but i guess thats the "tagline" mentality without much to back it up. And by the way, yes of course thats drivel!!! Its 3 things the stay campaign are using to fear monger people into voting stay!!! |
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.dappy
Full Member
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December 2010
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The UK's EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016., by .dappy on Apr 20, 2016 11:28:13 GMT 1, ... I don't quote everytime I reply to someone, especially when I am posting directly after the post ... it just cloggs up the page with what someone has already read ...
... it just goes to show that you don't really have an interest in what you said, otherwise you would have kept an eye on the Thread ... typical 'no vote' no interest / no substance 
... I don't quote everytime I reply to someone, especially when I am posting directly after the post ... it just cloggs up the page with what someone has already read ... ... it just goes to show that you don't really have an interest in what you said, otherwise you would have kept an eye on the Thread ... typical 'no vote' no interest / no substance |
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tartarus
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,628
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February 2013
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The UK's EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016., by tartarus on Apr 20, 2016 11:32:59 GMT 1, ... I don't quote everytime I reply to someone, especially when I am posting directly after the post ... it just cloggs up the page with what someone has already read ... ... it just goes to show that you don't really have an interest in what you said, otherwise you would have kept an eye on the Thread ... typical 'no vote' no interest / no substance
And i see you attack me for substance after dealing with what you said in the previous post, yet you provide no substance and think you can insult people into your way of thinking. Good stuff.
... I don't quote everytime I reply to someone, especially when I am posting directly after the post ... it just cloggs up the page with what someone has already read ... ... it just goes to show that you don't really have an interest in what you said, otherwise you would have kept an eye on the Thread ... typical 'no vote' no interest / no substance telling me how i think now as well. And i see you attack me for substance after dealing with what you said in the previous post, yet you provide no substance and think you can insult people into your way of thinking. Good stuff. |
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The UK's EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016., by Happy Shopper on Apr 20, 2016 11:44:24 GMT 1, you don't see the problem with a one sided debate? or public money used to attempt to influence the people to vote the way the government wants them to? My issue with it is if they give people a choice, why do they then try to expose everyone to their narrow perspective on the issue? That seems a like an act of desperation as they may not get what they hoped for.
I certainly don't see a one sided debate anywhere.
If the government believe it is best to stay in, then that's just their side of the argument... but probably an important one to listen to, as they should know more than the average member of the public.
Personally I think it will be best to stay in Europe.
We get at least as much back as we pay in, probably more.
Immigration issues won't change (if that's your problem with Europe), plus rules can be changed and still remain in Europe.
(For example, in Italy you can't claim benefits unless you've worked for 2 years. So, why are we told our rules are set by Europe when other countries clearly have different rules?)
The ability to travel and work freely in Europe is something I've personally benefited from (worked in Italy for 2 years).
And from a personal, financial point of view I don't want to start paying VAT on all imports from Europe. Something I've not heard talked about, but hugely relevant to many on this forum. It's annoying enough paying import duty on stuff from the rest of the world, can you imagine it from Europe too!?
Whether it works for big business to be in or out isn't really the point for me. It's whether I'll be worse off if we leave, and I believe we all will.
you don't see the problem with a one sided debate? or public money used to attempt to influence the people to vote the way the government wants them to? My issue with it is if they give people a choice, why do they then try to expose everyone to their narrow perspective on the issue? That seems a like an act of desperation as they may not get what they hoped for. I certainly don't see a one sided debate anywhere. If the government believe it is best to stay in, then that's just their side of the argument... but probably an important one to listen to, as they should know more than the average member of the public. Personally I think it will be best to stay in Europe. We get at least as much back as we pay in, probably more. Immigration issues won't change (if that's your problem with Europe), plus rules can be changed and still remain in Europe. (For example, in Italy you can't claim benefits unless you've worked for 2 years. So, why are we told our rules are set by Europe when other countries clearly have different rules?) The ability to travel and work freely in Europe is something I've personally benefited from (worked in Italy for 2 years). And from a personal, financial point of view I don't want to start paying VAT on all imports from Europe. Something I've not heard talked about, but hugely relevant to many on this forum. It's annoying enough paying import duty on stuff from the rest of the world, can you imagine it from Europe too!? Whether it works for big business to be in or out isn't really the point for me. It's whether I'll be worse off if we leave, and I believe we all will. |
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tartarus
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,628
๐๐ป 2,169
February 2013
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The UK's EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016., by tartarus on Apr 20, 2016 12:37:38 GMT 1, you don't see the problem with a one sided debate? or public money used to attempt to influence the people to vote the way the government wants them to? My issue with it is if they give people a choice, why do they then try to expose everyone to their narrow perspective on the issue? That seems a like an act of desperation as they may not get what they hoped for. I certainly don't see a one sided debate anywhere. If the government believe it is best to stay in, then that's just their side of the argument... but probably an important one to listen to, as they should know more than the average member of the public. Personally I think it will be best to stay in Europe. We get at least as much back as we pay in, probably more. Immigration issues won't change (if that's your problem with Europe), plus rules can be changed and still remain in Europe. (For example, in Italy you can't claim benefits unless you've worked for 2 years. So, why are we told our rules are set by Europe when other countries clearly have different rules?) The ability to travel and work freely in Europe is something I've personally benefited from (worked in Italy for 2 years). And from a personal, financial point of view I don't want to start paying VAT on all imports from Europe. Something I've not heard talked about, but hugely relevant to many on this forum. It's annoying enough paying import duty on stuff from the rest of the world, can you imagine it from Europe too!? Whether it works for big business to be in or out isn't really the point for me. It's whether I'll be worse off if we leave, and I believe we all will.
Nope I'm well out of being worried about the immigration, open borders is more my belief.
Unless Europe wants to sever all ties with us, all other things can easily be resolved. Its some kind of fear mongering that says we won't trade, we won't get tourism etc as we had that already. some rule changes as you say, but nothing major and the transition to us out of europe doesn't need to have any huge impact. If no one is going to ever talk to each other again afterwards then i guess we have problems. But thats really not going to happen is it. They will all sit down and go "ok, thats not what we expected, so lets figure out how we make this work"
I see fear of change being a driver to stay, but thats just missing the new opportunities it would create if we leave.
you don't see the problem with a one sided debate? or public money used to attempt to influence the people to vote the way the government wants them to? My issue with it is if they give people a choice, why do they then try to expose everyone to their narrow perspective on the issue? That seems a like an act of desperation as they may not get what they hoped for. I certainly don't see a one sided debate anywhere. If the government believe it is best to stay in, then that's just their side of the argument... but probably an important one to listen to, as they should know more than the average member of the public. Personally I think it will be best to stay in Europe. We get at least as much back as we pay in, probably more. Immigration issues won't change (if that's your problem with Europe), plus rules can be changed and still remain in Europe. (For example, in Italy you can't claim benefits unless you've worked for 2 years. So, why are we told our rules are set by Europe when other countries clearly have different rules?) The ability to travel and work freely in Europe is something I've personally benefited from (worked in Italy for 2 years). And from a personal, financial point of view I don't want to start paying VAT on all imports from Europe. Something I've not heard talked about, but hugely relevant to many on this forum. It's annoying enough paying import duty on stuff from the rest of the world, can you imagine it from Europe too!? Whether it works for big business to be in or out isn't really the point for me. It's whether I'll be worse off if we leave, and I believe we all will. the one sided part is from the leaflet, where they have had so much to spend to get it out there. And it wasn't the only pro leaflet i got. its referencing back to a point, not an outright statement in that context. Nope I'm well out of being worried about the immigration, open borders is more my belief. Unless Europe wants to sever all ties with us, all other things can easily be resolved. Its some kind of fear mongering that says we won't trade, we won't get tourism etc as we had that already. some rule changes as you say, but nothing major and the transition to us out of europe doesn't need to have any huge impact. If no one is going to ever talk to each other again afterwards then i guess we have problems. But thats really not going to happen is it. They will all sit down and go "ok, thats not what we expected, so lets figure out how we make this work" I see fear of change being a driver to stay, but thats just missing the new opportunities it would create if we leave. |
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January 1970
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The UK's EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016., by Deleted on Apr 20, 2016 12:44:06 GMT 1, .
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The UK's EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016., by Happy Shopper on Apr 20, 2016 12:48:15 GMT 1, I certainly don't see a one sided debate anywhere. If the government believe it is best to stay in, then that's just their side of the argument... but probably an important one to listen to, as they should know more than the average member of the public. Personally I think it will be best to stay in Europe. We get at least as much back as we pay in, probably more. Immigration issues won't change (if that's your problem with Europe), plus rules can be changed and still remain in Europe. (For example, in Italy you can't claim benefits unless you've worked for 2 years. So, why are we told our rules are set by Europe when other countries clearly have different rules?) The ability to travel and work freely in Europe is something I've personally benefited from (worked in Italy for 2 years). And from a personal, financial point of view I don't want to start paying VAT on all imports from Europe. Something I've not heard talked about, but hugely relevant to many on this forum. It's annoying enough paying import duty on stuff from the rest of the world, can you imagine it from Europe too!? Whether it works for big business to be in or out isn't really the point for me. It's whether I'll be worse off if we leave, and I believe we all will. I see fear of change being a driver to stay, but thats just missing the new opportunities it would create if we leave.
That's an interesting point, but it seems to be the fear of change that is driving many to want to leave.
The change to their community because of immigration, and an idea that we were better off before, so lets go back to that (forgetting that Britain was in a terrible state in the decades before joining Europe)
Leaving just because we can and it won't change much doesn't sound like much of an argument.
I certainly don't see a one sided debate anywhere. If the government believe it is best to stay in, then that's just their side of the argument... but probably an important one to listen to, as they should know more than the average member of the public. Personally I think it will be best to stay in Europe. We get at least as much back as we pay in, probably more. Immigration issues won't change (if that's your problem with Europe), plus rules can be changed and still remain in Europe. (For example, in Italy you can't claim benefits unless you've worked for 2 years. So, why are we told our rules are set by Europe when other countries clearly have different rules?) The ability to travel and work freely in Europe is something I've personally benefited from (worked in Italy for 2 years). And from a personal, financial point of view I don't want to start paying VAT on all imports from Europe. Something I've not heard talked about, but hugely relevant to many on this forum. It's annoying enough paying import duty on stuff from the rest of the world, can you imagine it from Europe too!? Whether it works for big business to be in or out isn't really the point for me. It's whether I'll be worse off if we leave, and I believe we all will. I see fear of change being a driver to stay, but thats just missing the new opportunities it would create if we leave. That's an interesting point, but it seems to be the fear of change that is driving many to want to leave. The change to their community because of immigration, and an idea that we were better off before, so lets go back to that (forgetting that Britain was in a terrible state in the decades before joining Europe) Leaving just because we can and it won't change much doesn't sound like much of an argument. |
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Deleted
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January 1970
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The UK's EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016., by Deleted on Apr 20, 2016 14:47:06 GMT 1, There are immigrants and there are immigrants. The EU doesn't care or know the difference. It's run by very rich people who pay no tax who live like kings and who between them have shown they cannot do anything without wasting (on themselves and their cronies) billions.
There should never have been open borders across the EU and the Euro is a ponzi scheme which has succeeded in dragging Germany into what will be a 1930's style recession if Merkel Stasi shit bag has her way.
There are immigrants and there are immigrants. The EU doesn't care or know the difference. It's run by very rich people who pay no tax who live like kings and who between them have shown they cannot do anything without wasting (on themselves and their cronies) billions.
There should never have been open borders across the EU and the Euro is a ponzi scheme which has succeeded in dragging Germany into what will be a 1930's style recession if Merkel Stasi shit bag has her way.
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The UK's EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016., by Daniel Silk on Apr 20, 2016 15:18:58 GMT 1, There are immigrants and there are immigrants. The EU doesn't care or know the difference. It's run by very rich people who pay no tax who live like kings and who between them have shown they cannot do anything without wasting (on themselves and their cronies) billions. There should never have been open borders across the EU and the Euro is a ponzi scheme which has succeeded in dragging Germany into what will be a 1930's style recession if Merkel Stasi s**t bag has her way.
I seriously think War can breakout across some European countries within the next 10 years. Unemployment rising, and more extreme political groups gaining control with Racist views and rules on religion.
We are best to take control or our own country and limit the damage when the shit hits the fan!
There are immigrants and there are immigrants. The EU doesn't care or know the difference. It's run by very rich people who pay no tax who live like kings and who between them have shown they cannot do anything without wasting (on themselves and their cronies) billions. There should never have been open borders across the EU and the Euro is a ponzi scheme which has succeeded in dragging Germany into what will be a 1930's style recession if Merkel Stasi s**t bag has her way. I seriously think War can breakout across some European countries within the next 10 years. Unemployment rising, and more extreme political groups gaining control with Racist views and rules on religion. We are best to take control or our own country and limit the damage when the shit hits the fan! |
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