i don't have the faintest idea what this is all about...........

its funny that on a forum about art and streetart and rebellion ( why not ) we have 48 % of nationalists and traditionalist !
I thought that art was intelligence and opens mind.
Are we on the Daily Miror ?
No
Cornishman is a good friend !

really stupides ! For teens

stender I agree [edit: about the waste of money in moving the parliament].

What I don't get with this referendum is why most talking heads in the media and serfs like us discussing it (that I've heard) say:

a. if they want to leave, EVERYTHING would be coolashaka if we left, and doom if we didn't
b. if they want to stay, EVERYTHING would be funky if we did, and carnage if we left

Am I mad to think there's positives in both arguments, there's some crap that doesn't help us in the EU, but also positive stuff that does?

In the end who knows what will happen if we leave (good or bad), nobody knows categorically, it's all speculation and massaging aromatic oils into distorted figures manipulated to favour one argument or the other.

And if we all look up at the advertising on this forum, you may notice a 'Vote Leave' advertising banner. I wonder if our esteemed, and highly intelligent dictator Silky, was approached by said organisation enquiring about advertising space on here, or whether it was the other way round?

I don't consider myself qualified to make a decision to be honest and from what I've read the so called professionals don't seem any the wiser.

saw this today online somewhere:


Alright, you filthy animals. I don't normally do this, because I believe that everyone should have the right to vote how they want at elections, but a) this ain't an election, it's a referendum so go shit yourself, and b) I honestly believe that the stakes are too high for me not to get involved here. If I can influence even one person with this post, then I'll feel like I've done something important. As a result, feel free to share this far and wide as I've done a veritable fuckload of research and I don't want all my hard work going to waste.

So, I'll put my cards on the table: I believe, very very strongly, that we need to stay in the EU. I never thought I'd find myself agreeing with David 'PigFellatio' Cameron, but in this unfortunate case I am, and here's why.

We stand to gain SO MUCH from staying in the EU. "How much", you're (probably not) asking? Well, I made a convenient list for your perusal, WITH sources, so you can't be a t**t and say 'you're making that up!' and froth at the mouth like a rabid cunt.

I know people on the internet like listicles with clickbait titles, so here are "14 Reasons Why We Shouldn't Leave The EU That Everyone Should Know! You Won't Believe #8!":
1) The EU provides easy access to 1/3 of the world's markets by value (in other words, the EU's combined market value is 1/3 of the entire world's, and we can tap into it whenever the fuck we want). [1] It also gives UK businesses preferential market access to over 50 countries OUTSIDE the EU, including some of the fastest-growing economies in the world like South Korea and South Africa. [2]
2) The EU gives us better product safety. You know, so your toddler doesn't impale him/herself on a shittily designed toy, or swallow a load of poisonous plastic. [3]
3) The EU gives structural funding to areas hit by industrial decline (hello, Cornwall). [4]
4) The EU gave us lead-free petrol. [5]
5) The EU gives us cheaper mobile charges. [6] It also gives us cheaper air travel. [7] Fuck yeah, cheap things!
6) The EU gives us cleaner beaches, rivers and air (hello again, Cornwall). [8]
7) The EU gives us improved consumer protection and food labelling, so you actually know what it's in your Chicken McNuggets (hint: it's chicken. It wasn't always chicken, though). [9]
8) The EU has helped break up monopolies. [10] If you don't know why monopolies are a Very Bad Thing, try playing the popular board game 'Monopoly' and see how many friends you have left when you win.
9) The EU gives us cross-border policing to combat human trafficking, arms and drug smuggling, and terrorism. [11]
10) Being a member of the EU means no paperwork or customs for exports throughout the single market, as well as the freedom to travel, live and work across Europe. [12] This one is particularly important for me as someone who likes to live, work and travel abroad. Do you have ANY IDEA how fucking great it is to be able to travel and work visa-free?! Having to a get a visa for every single country you enter is a nightmare, believe me. If you've ever tried to travel around Asia, Africa or South America, you'll understand what I'm saying.
11) The EU creates and helps uphold all kinds of awesome human rights, such as equal pay legislation, holiday entitlement, and the right not to work more than a 48-hour week without overtime. [13] I'd also like to point out that it's some of these same human rights that David 'PorkTwatter' Cameron tried to erode back in 2014, with the EU playing a major role in stopping him. [14]
12) The EU creates and upholds all kinds of great animal welfare legislation; it has the strongest wildlife protection laws in the world and contributes to improved animal welfare in food production. [15]
13) The EU funds incredible scientific research and industrial collaboration (including, most recently, a project that may be the catalyst for a cure for breast cancer being found in the next few years, I shit you not). [16]
14) Finally, and arguably most importantly, the EU has for 60 years been the foundation of peace between European neighbours after many years of bloodshed. [17] It has also assisted in the extraordinary social, political and economic transformation of 13 former dictatorships, now EU members, since 1980. [18]

SOURCES:
[1] news.cbi.org.uk/…/eu-business-facts/10-facts-about-…/
[2] europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-13-1080_en.htm
[3] ec.europa.eu/…/general_product_safety_d…/index_en.htm
[4] www.cornwall.gov.uk/…/european-structural-and-inve…/
[5] ec.europa.eu/environme…/…/project/Projects/index.cfm…
[6] www.theguardian.com/…/europe-abolishes-mobile-phone…
[7] europa.eu/…/citizens/travel/passeng…/air/index_en.htm
[8] www.theguardian.com/…/england-beaches-bathing-waters…
[9] ec.europa.eu/…/la…/labelling_legislation/index_en.htm
[10] en.m.wikipedia.org/w…/European_Union_competition_law (I know I'm not supposed to use Wikipedia as a source for its less-than-rigorous academic standards, but FUCK YOU I'm not in uni anymore, I'll do what I like).
[11] heinonline.org/HOL/LandingPage…
[12] ec.europa.eu/…/borders-and-…/visa-policy/index_en.htm
[13] en.m.wikipedia.org/…/European_Convention_on_Human_R…
[14] www.telegraph.co.uk/…/David-Camerons-plan-to-scrap-t…
[15] ec.europa.eu/food/animals/welfare/index_en.htm
[16] cordis.europa.eu/project/rcn/94691_en.html
[17] The Second World War, motherfucker. Read a history book.
[18] The Cold War, motherfucker. Read a history book.

And now, let's take a moment to address some of the arguments for leaving the EU. Apart from the fact that I can't find a single reputable study that suggests we'd be any better off outside of the EU (and believe me, I've looked; I want to research my counterarguments as thoroughly as my arguments), the most persuasive arguments I've found are what I'm going to term 'the trade argument' and 'the immigration argument'.

The trade argument goes as follows: if we left the EU, we could negotiate a sort of 'amicable divorce' where we somehow retain strong trading links with the EU while not being subject to its laws. Many people point to Canada as a good example of this model, which recently negotiated a CETA (Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement- do I have to google EVERYTHING for you?) with the EU. I have two retorts to this argument. My first retort: Canada was never a part of the EU in the first place. To return to the divorce analogy outlined above- whereby the EU and the U.K. are a sort of 'married couple' and trade is their kids- the U.K. seeking a CETA after leaving the EU would be like a nasty, messy divorce where one parent uses the kids as a weapon against the other, threatening to take them away whenever their demands aren't met. Canada's CETA, meanwhile, is like a married couple approaching someone else to have a threesome at a swinger's party, which sounds a lot more fun and exciting, I'm sure you'll agree. My second retort to the above argument is simple: why even take the risk? If we stay in the EU, our trade with them will continue to be prosperous and full of great sex while the kids are asleep (okay, I've taken the analogy too far now). If we leave, however, there's a chance any trade agreement could fail catastrophically and leave our economy in a shitstorm. In fact, I would argue the likes of Germany, France and other leading EU nations would not simply let us pick and choose what rules and trade agreements we adhere to, so the likelihood of us being absolutely fine, trade-wise, after leaving the EU seems overly optimistic. Plus negotiating a CETA of any kind could take years and have a completely uncertain outcome. Again, why take the risk? An additional point: arguments no. 2, 4, 6, 7, 8, 11, and 12 above are examples of really great laws and regulations the EU has introduced. If you say you want to leave the EU so we have autonomy over our own laws, you know that you're effectively handing control of our country over to David 'HideTheSausageLiterally' Cameron, don't you? In terms of making laws that benefit all of us, I trust the EU way more than that guy.

The immigration argument tends to centre around the whole 'visa-free work and travel' thing, and is generally espoused by people terrified of dem immigantz stealin are jobz. Alternatively it's espoused by people afraid of terrorists being able to come here more easily, but for that I'd refer you to point no. 9 above; we're safer from terrorism in the EU because we can share intelligence and resources with other countries more easily. But back to the 'stealing our jobs' fear; while it's true that technically speaking there could be an influx of foreigners coming to claim your particular job at any moment, just remember, we've been part of the EU for 43 years now and it hasn't happened yet, despite what the mainstream media may tell you (and you DEFINITELY shouldn't trust those guys; more on that later). Seriously, do you know ANYONE, personally, that has had their job stolen by a foreigner? Be honest now. I'd be willing to wager that you don't, and I'll explain why that is too: the immigrants that are coming here are not stealing YOUR jobs, specifically. They're either starting their own businesses (in which case they're actually creating jobs), or they're skilled labourers taking jobs there just aren't enough trained British people to take (such as doctors or surgeons), or they're unskilled labourers taking the jobs that you don't want (like toilet cleaning or washing dishes). Incidentally, about a year ago I taught English to some Eastern European immigrants who worked in a salad-packing factory in Lichfield. One Latvian girl was actually a teacher back home, but she was making more money as a salad-packer here than she was as a teacher in Latvia(!)- the point being that unskilled immigrant workers are generally happy to work shitty menial jobs that no British person wants, and your cushy 9-to-5 office job is not under threat. Not even a little bit- so don't worry your xenophobic little head about it. Oh, and one last thing on this subject, to paraphrase Louis CK: maybe, if an immigrant with no contacts, no skills and no local knowledge of the language and/or culture can steal your job, maybe, just maybe, you're shit at your job.

If you've made it thus far through this absolute essay of a post, congratulations! You're nearly at the end! But before I go, I just want to hit you with one final thought. Over 80% of UK newspapers are owned by five right-wing media billionaires (aka five massive cuntstacks): Lord Rothermere (Daily Mail), Rupert Murdoch (Sun/Times), Richard Desmond (Express), and the Barclay Brothers (Telegraph). Murdoch is an Australian living in New York and Rothermere lives in France, while the Barclay Brothers live in the tax havens of Monaco and Guernsey. All of them use tax haven entities to avoid UK taxes. And guess who wants to stop billionaires using tax havens to avoid paying their taxes? That's right, the EU. So of COURSE the British newspapers are trying to persuade you to leave the EU; it benefits their owners personally. The moral of the story is, don't gather your views from newspapers. Do some research like I have with this post, you lazy twonknoggin.

In conclusion: we're in a really great position right now. We're part of the EU with all the benefits that entails, but without being tied to their notoriously unstable currency. Leaving the EU would not only be hypocritical since we spent so much time telling Scotland they shouldn't leave the UK this time last year with all that lovely 'better together' rhetoric, it might also be downright stupid and harmful to our economy.

Vote to stay in the EU, you filthy animals. Because reasons. Trust me, I know what I'm talking about.

 The list is OK in theory but then so is saying something like the EU has given dogs shinier coats.


[1] It also gives UK businesses preferential market access to over 50 countries OUTSIDE the EU, including some of the fastest-growing economies in the world like South Korea and South Africa.

 Any examples as proof? The UK doesn't need to go therough Brussels to deal with S Africa and S Korea.


2) The EU gives us better product safety. You know, so your toddler doesn't impale him/herself on a s**ttily designed toy, or swallow a load of poisonous plastic.

US being Britain allready has trading standards. It's a shame the EU doesn't protect children from poisenous indoctrination and mutilation.


3) The EU gives structural funding to areas hit by industrial decline (hello, Cornwall).


 Cornish taxpayers and UK taxpayers taxes are funding the EU so the taxes could have staye din Uk and gone to Cornwall and other areas in decline anyway. Plus UK taxes going towards subsidising French and other farmers and Spanish fishermen. remember cod wars and UK farmers ordered to pour milk down the drains by the EU, plus veggie seller prosecuted for selling spuds by the lb and crooked vegetables.


4) The EU gave us lead-free petrol.

More toxic in some ways than leaded. Plus introduced to get old cars off the road so people buy new cars from subsidised car manufacturors.

5) The EU gives us cheaper mobile charges. [6] It also gives us cheaper air travel. [7] f**k yeah, cheap things!

When the Euro was introduced prices of goods across Europe rose.

 Freddie Laker was put out of business by the big airlines that adopted his idea of cheap flights because they wanted the european market 'alledgedly. Nothing to do with the EU apart from the airlines using european airports.

Plus the EU has give us less safe air travel today.

6) The EU gives us cleaner beaches, rivers and air (hello again, Cornwall). [8]

No it doesnt', it gives us whitewashed reports and ignores the facts about pollution.


7) The EU gives us improved consumer protection and food labelling, so you actually know what it's in your Chicken McNuggets (hint: it's chicken. It wasn't always chicken, though). [9]

 No it doesn't. How many kebab shops and curry houses and fast food places give a list of real ingredients?

8) The EU has helped break up monopolies. [10] If you don't know why monopolies are a Very Bad Thing, try playing the popular board game 'Monopoly' and see how many friends you have left when you win.

 The EU encourages monopolies like big corps taking over european farmland and food production. Smithfield foods etc.

Why do you think the EU wants to be in Ukraine.

9) The EU gives us cross-border policing to combat human trafficking, arms and drug smuggling, and terrorism. [11]

 Looks like it's not working then considering the amount of human trafficking criminals migrating easily through europes open borders arms drugs and lack of customs and border control.

Lack of border control contributes to better policing, what absolute bollocks.

10) Being a member of the EU means no paperwork or customs for exports throughout the single market, as well as the freedom to travel, live and work across Europe. [12] This one is particularly important for me as someone who likes to live, work and travel abroad. Do you have ANY IDEA how f**king great it is to be able to travel and work visa-free?! Having to a get a visa for every single country you enter is a nightmare, believe me. If you've ever tried to travel around Asia, Africa or South America, you'll understand what I'm saying.

 Not true. Every time I send a parcel to an EU country I have to detail it's contents, whether it's commercial or a gift plus give a business number. Which is required by the customs of the country I send from.

 Freedom to travel live and work, in theory not in practice. I get asked for my residence permit by French baurocracy even though the EU says every EU citizen has the same rights and doesn't need a residence permit.

Brits have less rights in France than people from non EU countries in some circumstances. There again it's France. I don't know if it's the same for Brits in other EU countries.


11) The EU creates and helps uphold all kinds of awesome human rights, such as equal pay legislation, holiday entitlement, and the right not to work more than a 48-hour week without overtime. [13] I'd also like to point out that it's some of these same human rights that David 'Porkt**tter' Cameron tried to erode back in 2014, with the EU playing a major role in stopping him. [14]


It ignores human rights too.

 Doesn't uphold the human rights of women victims of attack in Sweden and Germany for some reason and the EU colluded with german and Swedish politicians and police to blame the victims. Just stating known facts.

12) The EU creates and upholds all kinds of great animal welfare legislation; it has the strongest wildlife protection laws in the world and contributes to improved animal welfare in food production. [15]

No it doesn't, it subsidises farmers who breed bulls for bullfighting which goes on in France and Spain.

Bull running in Spain too, another sick spectacle.

It recognises ritual slaughter too, halal and kosher.

Fois gras force feeding geese in France plus pheasant shooting in UK which is pheasant chicks reared in pens and released just before the soot to be blasted by oiks with shotguns for sport.


13) The EU funds incredible scientific research and industrial collaboration (including, most recently, a project that may be the catalyst for a cure for breast cancer being found in the next few years, I s**t you not). [16]


 You make it sound like it's the gravy train wankers in Brussels HQ who do scientific reearch et weekends because they want to help humanity.

   Whose money exactly pays for this scientific research? Not the EU beaurocrats who pay zero tax.
It's the f**king working class taxpayers in europe who fund this stuff not teh EU. The EU channels funds to it's propaganda and vanity projects.

If you want to improve peoples health just ban cigarettes.


14) Finally, and arguably most importantly, the EU has for 60 years been the foundation of peace between European neighbours after many years of bloodshed. [17] It has also assisted in the extraordinary social, political and economic transformation of 13 former dictatorships, now EU members, since 1980. [18]

ha ha f**king ha.

 It nearly kicked off a war in Ukraine between Russia and Ukraine and contributed to the civil war in the east.

It has also contributed to people less safe in Europe and losing their nationality and freedoms.

    The EU panders to the religious agendas of the mainstream religions combined with left wing marxist thinking.

There are more athiests in Europe and the EU should be secular.

The EU is becoming a dictatorship.

The Soviet Union had the same rhetoric.


 and none of what I have written has come from EU funded propaganda.
 

I agree #Mattl




I also remember when Thatcher turned the UK into a country of middle men importers importing cheap made goods from China India etc which put UK manufacturors out of business and to break up the Unions and Labour party support.

If the UK does leav Europe.

Would the EU be vindictive and subsidise some countries manufacturers in the EU to be more competitive with countries like Korea etc to prevent UK gaining lucrative export contracts.

Luxembourg manufactured nothing apart from tax avoidance and it's a wealthy country. Funny coincidence that Juncker whos father was in teh WErhmacht is now EU president.

I don't personally care if the UK stays in the EU or not.

I do care that the EU is corrupt and run by and for a global political agenda.

All the EU seems to be about is raiding peoples bank accounts, finacially blackmailing weak EU countries.

More double talk with less open ness plus allowing Merkel and Germany to dictate terms across Europe and pandering to Merkels mistakes.


The EU anti EU MEP's like Hannan make me laugh. He goes on EU (taxpayer) funded jaunts to Peru on some sort of trade mission (nothing to do with old family connections though ?) and then talks about how the EU wastes money.

Boris Brexit who is also a Tory like Dave Stay In even has the cheek to use a German made campaign bus for his Brexit tour.

The Brexit people like Farage etc have a hidden agenda and speak with forked toungues as much as the EU does and the stay in Brigade.

Why don't they just state facts about the good and bad of the EU and state facts about the EU beaurocrats and their private lives and if they belong to any organisations.

Are all the people across Europe "on the same wavelength"? I don't think so.
Do you think the people of the UK have more voting power within the EU or UK Parliament? 

Nothing will happen.

The UK just ignores illegal immigrants anyway.

   So can't see the UK telling all the people who moved to UK to leave the UK? Or doing it by force. Would the ones who moved to UK from EU countries ten years or twenty ago have more righst than people who moved from EU , one year ago?

I clicked the advert for "Vote out" I took a look at the site and the first things you see and hear are false and misleading at best. I think the content of the advert is ridicuuls. 

So why no advert for the "Vote stay"? @danielsilk

If we don't like what the EU do can we "get rid of them at the next election"?

When it comes to solving serious problems, Brussels is a failure.

Unable to solve the Greek financial problem, they continue to kick the can down the road because they know if Greece fails, it'll probably take the euro with it.

Unable to deal with the migrant situation, the "hard men" of the Balkan countries solved the problem for them by erecting fences on their own borders.  The problem has now moved to Italy and may end up putting Schengen in jeopardy.

It seems that there are people who feel disenfranchised from the EU's aims and policies - enough people to cause a very disturbing swing to the hard right.  In fact, the hard right was very narrowly defeated in Austria only just the other day.  This is no joke, as we all know what happened in Europe in the 1930s, starting with Austria, don't we?

That said, I think the UK will remain because people want cheap vegetables, or whatever.  For me personally, I'm not sure it's a good idea in the long run.

If you want to be left on this island with governments that have no consideration for our well-being then that's up to you. I don't, and do not believe that those who want us to leave have our interests at heart. They are ideology driven.
It comes down to trust. I do not trust those that desire absolute power, because that is what they want - power with no obstructions.

We have MP's, and MEP's that we put our faith in. That is how it works - rightly or wrongly.


As I said before, whether we remain in or out is subjective.

I have yet to hear any concrete proposals from anyone in the leave campaign as to what the UK will do if it leaves. It is just supposition.
At a general election, each party puts forward proposals and I can look at each party's manifesto.
With 'Vote Leave' there are no proposals, no manifesto, just assumptions and some obsession with resurrecting a 'Great' Britain. Give us some plans and we might just consider it - plans to protect our rights as workers, and then make our working lives better, ideas to improve H&S at work, plans to protect our pensions, plans to ensure we get suitably qualified workers with the skills the country is lacking, plans to protect the NHS, ideas on how to control immigration, plans to give young people employment, or housing, plans to ensure a free press - or at least one where they're held to account, ideas to give people something to believe in, protection of our human rights, plans to make us feel as though we're part of something and happy to contribute to the well-being of society.

And as much as my rant has been against leaving, give me a f**king clue about what 'Vote Leave' are going to do and I might just consider it. But there aren't any. Just look at the c**ts that are leading this campaign, and the language they are stooping to. It's embarassing on both levels.

The problem is those in favour of leaving haven't got a f**king clue about how to take things forward. If public-sector organisations aren't good enough now, a magic wand isn't going to be waved by leaving the EU. They're incompetent now, and will continue to be incompetent in the future. Blaming their inadequacies on migrants is wrong. We have control, and the power to do something about it, but don't because too often our politicians are driven by a desire to put profit before people.