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Brexit
Dec 12, 2018 17:59:46 GMT 1
Brexit, by Bill Hicks on Dec 12, 2018 17:59:46 GMT 1, sophistication you find in Labour's policies.
Ban companies based in tax havens bidding for government contracts
It's astounding that this isn't the case already. How on earth could anyone even attempt to justify taxpayers' cash being paid to companies based in tax havens for the purpose of dodging tax?
£10 minimum wage for all workers over the age of 18
The UK is the only country in the developed world where workers' wages are declining in real terms, while the economy is actually growing. A £10 minimum wage would help to reverse this scenario, and it would also significantly reduce the cost of in-work benefits like tax credits and housing benefit (most of which goes to working families these days).
All rented accommodation to be fit for human habitation
Again, astounding that this isn't the case already, but in January 2016 the Tories (over 1/3 of whom are landlords) deliberately voted down a Labour Party amendment to their housing bill to ensure that all rented accommodation is fit for human habitation.
Renationalise the railways
This is a very popular policy that is supported by an overwhelming majority of the public. Do you support rail renationalisation too, or are you one of the minority who think that the current shambles is acceptable?
Renationalise the NHS
The Tory party have been carving up the English NHS and distributing the pieces to the private sector, Jeremy Corbyn has pledged to reverse this process. Are you one of the 84% of people who thinks the NHS should be run as a not for profit public service, or the 7% who agree with the ongoing Tory privatisation agenda?
Free school meals
The policy of providing free school meals to all school children between the ages of 4 and 11 is based on evidence based research showing that universal free school meals lead to significantly improved grades. It will be paid for by ending the generous tax breaks (public subsidies) for the 7% of kids who go to private fee-paying schools.
Create a National Education Service
Jeremy Corbyn believes that education is a right, not a commodity. He wants to create an integrated National Education Service to ensure that education is freely available to anyone who needs it.
Scrap tuition fees
Thanks to the Tories (and their Lib-Dem enablers) UK students now face the most expensive tuition fees in the industrialised world for study at public universities, meaning students typically leave university with £50,000 of debt, and two thirds of them will never pay off their student debts. Labour would end this lunacy by getting rid of student fees.
Restore NHS Bursaries
One of the first things Theresa My did when she came to power was to scrap NHS bursaries for nurses and other NHS workers. This removal of financial support for nurses has caused a huge 10,000 decline in the number of applicants to nursing courses. This collapse in nursing recruitment would be bad enough in its own right, but in combination with a record increase in the number of EU nurses quitting the NHS and a mind-boggling 92% fall in nursing recruitment from EU countries, the UK is clearly facing a massive NHS recruitment crisis. Labour would reverse this calamitous state of affairs by restoring NHS Bursaries for trainee nurses.
Increase the carers allowance
Labour are proposing to increase the Carers Allowance for the 1 million unpaid carers in the UK. This would be paid for by scrapping the Tories' Inheritance Tax cut for millionaires. Unpaid carers save the UK economy an estimated £132 million a year, and they're doing ever more work as a result of the £4.6 billion in Tory cuts to the social care budget.
Create a National Investment Bank
This is actually one of Jeremy Corbyn's best policies, but few people actually understand it. It's absolutely clear that allowing private banks to determine where money is invested ends up in huge speculative bubbles in housing and financial derivatives, while the real economy is starved of cash. A National Investment Bank would work by investing in things like infrastructure, services, businesses and regional development projects, and would end up becoming a kind of sovereign wealth fund for the UK.
End the public sector pay freeze
Under Tory rule UK workers suffered the longest sustained decline in real wages since records began. The public sector pay freeze contributed massively to this. You'd have to be economically illiterate to imagine that repressing public sector wages with below inflation pay rises for year after year would not exert downwards pressure on private sector wages too. Ending the public sector pay freeze would actually boost the economy by putting more money in people's pockets, meaning an increase in aggregate demand.
End sweetheart tax deals between HMRC and massive corporations
David Cameron (the son of a tax-dodger) repeatedly lied through his teeth about how serious he was about confronting tax-dodging, whilst allowing HMRC to concoct sweetheart deals with corporations like Google, Vodafone and Starbucks. One of the main reasons the corporate press are so strongly opposed to Jeremy Corbyn is that they know that unlike David Cameron, he's serious when he talks about clamping down on tax-dodging.
Stop major corporations ripping off their suppliers
Major corporations are withholding an astounding £26 billion through late payment, which is responsible for an estimated 50,000 small businesses going bust every year. The scale of this problem is so massive that it should be a national scandal, and Jeremy Corbyn is absolutely right to align himself with small businesses to defend their interests.
Reverse the Tory corporation tax cuts
Since 2010 the Tories have cut the rate of corporation tax for major multinational corporations from 28% to just 17% (by 2020) meaning the UK has one of the lowest corporation tax rates in the developed world. The global average is 27% and the G7 average is 32.3%. Theresa May has already threatened to lower the corporation tax even further to turn post-brexit Britiain into a tax haven economy, Corbyn is proposing to do the opposite and increase corporation tax rates so they're more in line with the rest of the developed world.
Defend Human Rights
Theresa May has repeatedly expressed her intention to tear up Winston Churchill's finest legacy, the European Convention on Human Rights. Labour would oppose this Tory attack on our human rights.
Zero Hours Contracts ban
Almost a million UK workers are now on exploitative Zero Hours Contracts. Last year the New Zealand parliament voted to ban them, and Labour is proposing to do the same. Long-term employees and workers doing regular hours would be protected from Zero Hours Contract exploitation.
Holding the Tories to account over Brexit
Labour have said that they won't block Brexit, but they will seek to hold the Tories to account over it. A landslide Tory victory would be a disaster for the UK because it would allow Theresa May to pursue the most right-wing pro-corporate anti-worker Brexit possible with almost no democratic scrutiny. The only way to make sure the Tories don't push a fanatically right-wing Brexit on the nation is to ensure that there are plenty of opposition MPs to hold them to account.
Housebuilding
Under the Tory government the level of UK housebuilding has slumped to the lowest levels since the 1920s, even though demand for housing is extremely high. Labour are guaranteeing to invest in a programme of housebuilding, and committing to ensure that half of the new houses are social housing. This wouldn't just alleviate the housing crisis, it would also stimulate the economy by increasing aggregate demand.
Combat inequality
George Osborne's ideological austerity agenda resulted in the longest sustained decline in workers' wages since records began and condemned an additional 400,000 children to growing up in poverty, meanwhile the tiny super-rich majority literally doubled their wealth. Labour is pledging to reduce the inequality gap and introduce progressive policies to reduce the gap between the incomes of the highest and lowest paid. There is plenty of evidence to show that the least unequal societies are more economically successful places where the people are happier.
sophistication you find in Labour's policies. Labour Party policies Ban companies based in tax havens bidding for government contracts It's astounding that this isn't the case already. How on earth could anyone even attempt to justify taxpayers' cash being paid to companies based in tax havens for the purpose of dodging tax? £10 minimum wage for all workers over the age of 18 The UK is the only country in the developed world where workers' wages are declining in real terms, while the economy is actually growing. A £10 minimum wage would help to reverse this scenario, and it would also significantly reduce the cost of in-work benefits like tax credits and housing benefit (most of which goes to working families these days). All rented accommodation to be fit for human habitation Again, astounding that this isn't the case already, but in January 2016 the Tories (over 1/3 of whom are landlords) deliberately voted down a Labour Party amendment to their housing bill to ensure that all rented accommodation is fit for human habitation. Renationalise the railways This is a very popular policy that is supported by an overwhelming majority of the public. Do you support rail renationalisation too, or are you one of the minority who think that the current shambles is acceptable? Renationalise the NHS The Tory party have been carving up the English NHS and distributing the pieces to the private sector, Jeremy Corbyn has pledged to reverse this process. Are you one of the 84% of people who thinks the NHS should be run as a not for profit public service, or the 7% who agree with the ongoing Tory privatisation agenda? Free school meals The policy of providing free school meals to all school children between the ages of 4 and 11 is based on evidence based research showing that universal free school meals lead to significantly improved grades. It will be paid for by ending the generous tax breaks (public subsidies) for the 7% of kids who go to private fee-paying schools. Create a National Education Service Jeremy Corbyn believes that education is a right, not a commodity. He wants to create an integrated National Education Service to ensure that education is freely available to anyone who needs it. Scrap tuition fees Thanks to the Tories (and their Lib-Dem enablers) UK students now face the most expensive tuition fees in the industrialised world for study at public universities, meaning students typically leave university with £50,000 of debt, and two thirds of them will never pay off their student debts. Labour would end this lunacy by getting rid of student fees. Restore NHS Bursaries One of the first things Theresa My did when she came to power was to scrap NHS bursaries for nurses and other NHS workers. This removal of financial support for nurses has caused a huge 10,000 decline in the number of applicants to nursing courses. This collapse in nursing recruitment would be bad enough in its own right, but in combination with a record increase in the number of EU nurses quitting the NHS and a mind-boggling 92% fall in nursing recruitment from EU countries, the UK is clearly facing a massive NHS recruitment crisis. Labour would reverse this calamitous state of affairs by restoring NHS Bursaries for trainee nurses. Increase the carers allowance Labour are proposing to increase the Carers Allowance for the 1 million unpaid carers in the UK. This would be paid for by scrapping the Tories' Inheritance Tax cut for millionaires. Unpaid carers save the UK economy an estimated £132 million a year, and they're doing ever more work as a result of the £4.6 billion in Tory cuts to the social care budget. Create a National Investment Bank This is actually one of Jeremy Corbyn's best policies, but few people actually understand it. It's absolutely clear that allowing private banks to determine where money is invested ends up in huge speculative bubbles in housing and financial derivatives, while the real economy is starved of cash. A National Investment Bank would work by investing in things like infrastructure, services, businesses and regional development projects, and would end up becoming a kind of sovereign wealth fund for the UK. End the public sector pay freeze Under Tory rule UK workers suffered the longest sustained decline in real wages since records began. The public sector pay freeze contributed massively to this. You'd have to be economically illiterate to imagine that repressing public sector wages with below inflation pay rises for year after year would not exert downwards pressure on private sector wages too. Ending the public sector pay freeze would actually boost the economy by putting more money in people's pockets, meaning an increase in aggregate demand. End sweetheart tax deals between HMRC and massive corporations David Cameron (the son of a tax-dodger) repeatedly lied through his teeth about how serious he was about confronting tax-dodging, whilst allowing HMRC to concoct sweetheart deals with corporations like Google, Vodafone and Starbucks. One of the main reasons the corporate press are so strongly opposed to Jeremy Corbyn is that they know that unlike David Cameron, he's serious when he talks about clamping down on tax-dodging. Stop major corporations ripping off their suppliers Major corporations are withholding an astounding £26 billion through late payment, which is responsible for an estimated 50,000 small businesses going bust every year. The scale of this problem is so massive that it should be a national scandal, and Jeremy Corbyn is absolutely right to align himself with small businesses to defend their interests. Reverse the Tory corporation tax cuts Since 2010 the Tories have cut the rate of corporation tax for major multinational corporations from 28% to just 17% (by 2020) meaning the UK has one of the lowest corporation tax rates in the developed world. The global average is 27% and the G7 average is 32.3%. Theresa May has already threatened to lower the corporation tax even further to turn post-brexit Britiain into a tax haven economy, Corbyn is proposing to do the opposite and increase corporation tax rates so they're more in line with the rest of the developed world. Defend Human Rights Theresa May has repeatedly expressed her intention to tear up Winston Churchill's finest legacy, the European Convention on Human Rights. Labour would oppose this Tory attack on our human rights. Zero Hours Contracts ban Almost a million UK workers are now on exploitative Zero Hours Contracts. Last year the New Zealand parliament voted to ban them, and Labour is proposing to do the same. Long-term employees and workers doing regular hours would be protected from Zero Hours Contract exploitation. Holding the Tories to account over Brexit Labour have said that they won't block Brexit, but they will seek to hold the Tories to account over it. A landslide Tory victory would be a disaster for the UK because it would allow Theresa May to pursue the most right-wing pro-corporate anti-worker Brexit possible with almost no democratic scrutiny. The only way to make sure the Tories don't push a fanatically right-wing Brexit on the nation is to ensure that there are plenty of opposition MPs to hold them to account. Housebuilding Under the Tory government the level of UK housebuilding has slumped to the lowest levels since the 1920s, even though demand for housing is extremely high. Labour are guaranteeing to invest in a programme of housebuilding, and committing to ensure that half of the new houses are social housing. This wouldn't just alleviate the housing crisis, it would also stimulate the economy by increasing aggregate demand. Combat inequality George Osborne's ideological austerity agenda resulted in the longest sustained decline in workers' wages since records began and condemned an additional 400,000 children to growing up in poverty, meanwhile the tiny super-rich majority literally doubled their wealth. Labour is pledging to reduce the inequality gap and introduce progressive policies to reduce the gap between the incomes of the highest and lowest paid. There is plenty of evidence to show that the least unequal societies are more economically successful places where the people are happier. |
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Deleted
🗨️ 0
👍🏻
January 1970
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Brexit
Dec 12, 2018 18:24:01 GMT 1
Brexit, by Deleted on Dec 12, 2018 18:24:01 GMT 1, I like all of that except you can shove the corp tax up your arse
that affects me :-)
On a more serious note, low corp tax brings in businesses. look at Dublin
I like all of that except you can shove the corp tax up your arse
that affects me :-)
On a more serious note, low corp tax brings in businesses. look at Dublin
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love
Junior Member
🗨️ 1,649
👍🏻 391
October 2009
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Brexit
Dec 12, 2018 18:28:11 GMT 1
Brexit, by love on Dec 12, 2018 18:28:11 GMT 1, What a great day, i‘m getting one step closer to be the new and last Prime Minister.
What a great day, i‘m getting one step closer to be the new and last Prime Minister.
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Deleted
🗨️ 0
👍🏻
January 1970
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Brexit
Dec 12, 2018 18:40:43 GMT 1
Brexit, by Deleted on Dec 12, 2018 18:40:43 GMT 1, sophistication you find in Labour's policies. Labour Party policies Ban companies based in tax havens bidding for government contracts It's astounding that this isn't the case already. How on earth could anyone even attempt to justify taxpayers' cash being paid to companies based in tax havens for the purpose of dodging tax? £10 minimum wage for all workers over the age of 18 The UK is the only country in the developed world where workers' wages are declining in real terms, while the economy is actually growing. A £10 minimum wage would help to reverse this scenario, and it would also significantly reduce the cost of in-work benefits like tax credits and housing benefit (most of which goes to working families these days). All rented accommodation to be fit for human habitation Again, astounding that this isn't the case already, but in January 2016 the Tories (over 1/3 of whom are landlords) deliberately voted down a Labour Party amendment to their housing bill to ensure that all rented accommodation is fit for human habitation. Renationalise the railways This is a very popular policy that is supported by an overwhelming majority of the public. Do you support rail renationalisation too, or are you one of the minority who think that the current shambles is acceptable? Renationalise the NHS The Tory party have been carving up the English NHS and distributing the pieces to the private sector, Jeremy Corbyn has pledged to reverse this process. Are you one of the 84% of people who thinks the NHS should be run as a not for profit public service, or the 7% who agree with the ongoing Tory privatisation agenda? Free school meals The policy of providing free school meals to all school children between the ages of 4 and 11 is based on evidence based research showing that universal free school meals lead to significantly improved grades. It will be paid for by ending the generous tax breaks (public subsidies) for the 7% of kids who go to private fee-paying schools. Create a National Education Service Jeremy Corbyn believes that education is a right, not a commodity. He wants to create an integrated National Education Service to ensure that education is freely available to anyone who needs it. Scrap tuition fees Thanks to the Tories (and their Lib-Dem enablers) UK students now face the most expensive tuition fees in the industrialised world for study at public universities, meaning students typically leave university with £50,000 of debt, and two thirds of them will never pay off their student debts. Labour would end this lunacy by getting rid of student fees. Restore NHS Bursaries One of the first things Theresa My did when she came to power was to scrap NHS bursaries for nurses and other NHS workers. This removal of financial support for nurses has caused a huge 10,000 decline in the number of applicants to nursing courses. This collapse in nursing recruitment would be bad enough in its own right, but in combination with a record increase in the number of EU nurses quitting the NHS and a mind-boggling 92% fall in nursing recruitment from EU countries, the UK is clearly facing a massive NHS recruitment crisis. Labour would reverse this calamitous state of affairs by restoring NHS Bursaries for trainee nurses. Increase the carers allowance Labour are proposing to increase the Carers Allowance for the 1 million unpaid carers in the UK. This would be paid for by scrapping the Tories' Inheritance Tax cut for millionaires. Unpaid carers save the UK economy an estimated £132 million a year, and they're doing ever more work as a result of the £4.6 billion in Tory cuts to the social care budget. Create a National Investment Bank This is actually one of Jeremy Corbyn's best policies, but few people actually understand it. It's absolutely clear that allowing private banks to determine where money is invested ends up in huge speculative bubbles in housing and financial derivatives, while the real economy is starved of cash. A National Investment Bank would work by investing in things like infrastructure, services, businesses and regional development projects, and would end up becoming a kind of sovereign wealth fund for the UK. End the public sector pay freeze Under Tory rule UK workers suffered the longest sustained decline in real wages since records began. The public sector pay freeze contributed massively to this. You'd have to be economically illiterate to imagine that repressing public sector wages with below inflation pay rises for year after year would not exert downwards pressure on private sector wages too. Ending the public sector pay freeze would actually boost the economy by putting more money in people's pockets, meaning an increase in aggregate demand. End sweetheart tax deals between HMRC and massive corporations David Cameron (the son of a tax-dodger) repeatedly lied through his teeth about how serious he was about confronting tax-dodging, whilst allowing HMRC to concoct sweetheart deals with corporations like Google, Vodafone and Starbucks. One of the main reasons the corporate press are so strongly opposed to Jeremy Corbyn is that they know that unlike David Cameron, he's serious when he talks about clamping down on tax-dodging. Stop major corporations ripping off their suppliers Major corporations are withholding an astounding £26 billion through late payment, which is responsible for an estimated 50,000 small businesses going bust every year. The scale of this problem is so massive that it should be a national scandal, and Jeremy Corbyn is absolutely right to align himself with small businesses to defend their interests. Reverse the Tory corporation tax cuts Since 2010 the Tories have cut the rate of corporation tax for major multinational corporations from 28% to just 17% (by 2020) meaning the UK has one of the lowest corporation tax rates in the developed world. The global average is 27% and the G7 average is 32.3%. Theresa May has already threatened to lower the corporation tax even further to turn post-brexit Britiain into a tax haven economy, Corbyn is proposing to do the opposite and increase corporation tax rates so they're more in line with the rest of the developed world. Defend Human Rights Theresa May has repeatedly expressed her intention to tear up Winston Churchill's finest legacy, the European Convention on Human Rights. Labour would oppose this Tory attack on our human rights. Zero Hours Contracts ban Almost a million UK workers are now on exploitative Zero Hours Contracts. Last year the New Zealand parliament voted to ban them, and Labour is proposing to do the same. Long-term employees and workers doing regular hours would be protected from Zero Hours Contract exploitation. Holding the Tories to account over Brexit Labour have said that they won't block Brexit, but they will seek to hold the Tories to account over it. A landslide Tory victory would be a disaster for the UK because it would allow Theresa May to pursue the most right-wing pro-corporate anti-worker Brexit possible with almost no democratic scrutiny. The only way to make sure the Tories don't push a fanatically right-wing Brexit on the nation is to ensure that there are plenty of opposition MPs to hold them to account. Housebuilding Under the Tory government the level of UK housebuilding has slumped to the lowest levels since the 1920s, even though demand for housing is extremely high. Labour are guaranteeing to invest in a programme of housebuilding, and committing to ensure that half of the new houses are social housing. This wouldn't just alleviate the housing crisis, it would also stimulate the economy by increasing aggregate demand. Combat inequality George Osborne's ideological austerity agenda resulted in the longest sustained decline in workers' wages since records began and condemned an additional 400,000 children to growing up in poverty, meanwhile the tiny super-rich majority literally doubled their wealth. Labour is pledging to reduce the inequality gap and introduce progressive policies to reduce the gap between the incomes of the highest and lowest paid. There is plenty of evidence to show that the least unequal societies are more economically successful places where the people are happier.
1. "£10 minimum wage for all workers over the age of 18". This sounds great but, hang on a minute... what would be the ramifications of such a move? Many small companies that are just about managing to stay afloat, can not afford to pay their employees such an increase. If they were forced to do so, the result could be...more redundancies, more businesses collapsing, more unemployment, less income tax to government, more government spending on welfare benefits. Can you see how these things work and the potential ramifications of such actions?
2. "Renationalise the railways". Good god, I hope not! I am old enough to remember what nationalised railways looked like...vandalised trains with ripped seats with springs hanging out of them, huge overcrowding, unreliable (I've lost count how often I was late for work because the trains were cancelled and even when they were not, I had to stand for the complete journey, as did everybody else, because all the seats were so badly vandalised). If the trains were nationalised and the economy takes a nosedive, the self same thing is probably going to happen again. Why do people assume nationalisation = good and privatisation = bad. The evidence does not support such an assumption.
3. "Renationalise the NHS". I worked in the NHS for 20 years. I saw first hand the amount of waste of money and resources. And that is partly due to being in the public rather than the private sector. There is currently no incentive to make hospitals cost-efficient or to use resources wisely. Why bother when the outcome will be the same regardless of how the hospitals are run.
4. "Free school meals". Another ill-thought out policy. All this would do is take away money which should be spent on poor people which instead is being spent on the vast majority of pupils who do not need free meals (including kids from rich backgrounds) but would be getting the free meals anyway.
I could go through lots of these other Labour policies and point out the flaws in them but I'm probably wasting my time, aren't I.
sophistication you find in Labour's policies. Labour Party policies Ban companies based in tax havens bidding for government contracts It's astounding that this isn't the case already. How on earth could anyone even attempt to justify taxpayers' cash being paid to companies based in tax havens for the purpose of dodging tax? £10 minimum wage for all workers over the age of 18 The UK is the only country in the developed world where workers' wages are declining in real terms, while the economy is actually growing. A £10 minimum wage would help to reverse this scenario, and it would also significantly reduce the cost of in-work benefits like tax credits and housing benefit (most of which goes to working families these days). All rented accommodation to be fit for human habitation Again, astounding that this isn't the case already, but in January 2016 the Tories (over 1/3 of whom are landlords) deliberately voted down a Labour Party amendment to their housing bill to ensure that all rented accommodation is fit for human habitation. Renationalise the railways This is a very popular policy that is supported by an overwhelming majority of the public. Do you support rail renationalisation too, or are you one of the minority who think that the current shambles is acceptable? Renationalise the NHS The Tory party have been carving up the English NHS and distributing the pieces to the private sector, Jeremy Corbyn has pledged to reverse this process. Are you one of the 84% of people who thinks the NHS should be run as a not for profit public service, or the 7% who agree with the ongoing Tory privatisation agenda? Free school meals The policy of providing free school meals to all school children between the ages of 4 and 11 is based on evidence based research showing that universal free school meals lead to significantly improved grades. It will be paid for by ending the generous tax breaks (public subsidies) for the 7% of kids who go to private fee-paying schools. Create a National Education Service Jeremy Corbyn believes that education is a right, not a commodity. He wants to create an integrated National Education Service to ensure that education is freely available to anyone who needs it. Scrap tuition fees Thanks to the Tories (and their Lib-Dem enablers) UK students now face the most expensive tuition fees in the industrialised world for study at public universities, meaning students typically leave university with £50,000 of debt, and two thirds of them will never pay off their student debts. Labour would end this lunacy by getting rid of student fees. Restore NHS Bursaries One of the first things Theresa My did when she came to power was to scrap NHS bursaries for nurses and other NHS workers. This removal of financial support for nurses has caused a huge 10,000 decline in the number of applicants to nursing courses. This collapse in nursing recruitment would be bad enough in its own right, but in combination with a record increase in the number of EU nurses quitting the NHS and a mind-boggling 92% fall in nursing recruitment from EU countries, the UK is clearly facing a massive NHS recruitment crisis. Labour would reverse this calamitous state of affairs by restoring NHS Bursaries for trainee nurses. Increase the carers allowance Labour are proposing to increase the Carers Allowance for the 1 million unpaid carers in the UK. This would be paid for by scrapping the Tories' Inheritance Tax cut for millionaires. Unpaid carers save the UK economy an estimated £132 million a year, and they're doing ever more work as a result of the £4.6 billion in Tory cuts to the social care budget. Create a National Investment Bank This is actually one of Jeremy Corbyn's best policies, but few people actually understand it. It's absolutely clear that allowing private banks to determine where money is invested ends up in huge speculative bubbles in housing and financial derivatives, while the real economy is starved of cash. A National Investment Bank would work by investing in things like infrastructure, services, businesses and regional development projects, and would end up becoming a kind of sovereign wealth fund for the UK. End the public sector pay freeze Under Tory rule UK workers suffered the longest sustained decline in real wages since records began. The public sector pay freeze contributed massively to this. You'd have to be economically illiterate to imagine that repressing public sector wages with below inflation pay rises for year after year would not exert downwards pressure on private sector wages too. Ending the public sector pay freeze would actually boost the economy by putting more money in people's pockets, meaning an increase in aggregate demand. End sweetheart tax deals between HMRC and massive corporations David Cameron (the son of a tax-dodger) repeatedly lied through his teeth about how serious he was about confronting tax-dodging, whilst allowing HMRC to concoct sweetheart deals with corporations like Google, Vodafone and Starbucks. One of the main reasons the corporate press are so strongly opposed to Jeremy Corbyn is that they know that unlike David Cameron, he's serious when he talks about clamping down on tax-dodging. Stop major corporations ripping off their suppliers Major corporations are withholding an astounding £26 billion through late payment, which is responsible for an estimated 50,000 small businesses going bust every year. The scale of this problem is so massive that it should be a national scandal, and Jeremy Corbyn is absolutely right to align himself with small businesses to defend their interests. Reverse the Tory corporation tax cuts Since 2010 the Tories have cut the rate of corporation tax for major multinational corporations from 28% to just 17% (by 2020) meaning the UK has one of the lowest corporation tax rates in the developed world. The global average is 27% and the G7 average is 32.3%. Theresa May has already threatened to lower the corporation tax even further to turn post-brexit Britiain into a tax haven economy, Corbyn is proposing to do the opposite and increase corporation tax rates so they're more in line with the rest of the developed world. Defend Human Rights Theresa May has repeatedly expressed her intention to tear up Winston Churchill's finest legacy, the European Convention on Human Rights. Labour would oppose this Tory attack on our human rights. Zero Hours Contracts ban Almost a million UK workers are now on exploitative Zero Hours Contracts. Last year the New Zealand parliament voted to ban them, and Labour is proposing to do the same. Long-term employees and workers doing regular hours would be protected from Zero Hours Contract exploitation. Holding the Tories to account over Brexit Labour have said that they won't block Brexit, but they will seek to hold the Tories to account over it. A landslide Tory victory would be a disaster for the UK because it would allow Theresa May to pursue the most right-wing pro-corporate anti-worker Brexit possible with almost no democratic scrutiny. The only way to make sure the Tories don't push a fanatically right-wing Brexit on the nation is to ensure that there are plenty of opposition MPs to hold them to account. Housebuilding Under the Tory government the level of UK housebuilding has slumped to the lowest levels since the 1920s, even though demand for housing is extremely high. Labour are guaranteeing to invest in a programme of housebuilding, and committing to ensure that half of the new houses are social housing. This wouldn't just alleviate the housing crisis, it would also stimulate the economy by increasing aggregate demand. Combat inequality George Osborne's ideological austerity agenda resulted in the longest sustained decline in workers' wages since records began and condemned an additional 400,000 children to growing up in poverty, meanwhile the tiny super-rich majority literally doubled their wealth. Labour is pledging to reduce the inequality gap and introduce progressive policies to reduce the gap between the incomes of the highest and lowest paid. There is plenty of evidence to show that the least unequal societies are more economically successful places where the people are happier. I don't know if this was a cut and paste job from the Labour Party website. If so, it's hardly an impartial perspective on things. But if it wasn't, allow me to unpick just a few of these points... 1. "£10 minimum wage for all workers over the age of 18". This sounds great but, hang on a minute... what would be the ramifications of such a move? Many small companies that are just about managing to stay afloat, can not afford to pay their employees such an increase. If they were forced to do so, the result could be...more redundancies, more businesses collapsing, more unemployment, less income tax to government, more government spending on welfare benefits. Can you see how these things work and the potential ramifications of such actions? 2. "Renationalise the railways". Good god, I hope not! I am old enough to remember what nationalised railways looked like...vandalised trains with ripped seats with springs hanging out of them, huge overcrowding, unreliable (I've lost count how often I was late for work because the trains were cancelled and even when they were not, I had to stand for the complete journey, as did everybody else, because all the seats were so badly vandalised). If the trains were nationalised and the economy takes a nosedive, the self same thing is probably going to happen again. Why do people assume nationalisation = good and privatisation = bad. The evidence does not support such an assumption. 3. "Renationalise the NHS". I worked in the NHS for 20 years. I saw first hand the amount of waste of money and resources. And that is partly due to being in the public rather than the private sector. There is currently no incentive to make hospitals cost-efficient or to use resources wisely. Why bother when the outcome will be the same regardless of how the hospitals are run. 4. "Free school meals". Another ill-thought out policy. All this would do is take away money which should be spent on poor people which instead is being spent on the vast majority of pupils who do not need free meals (including kids from rich backgrounds) but would be getting the free meals anyway. I could go through lots of these other Labour policies and point out the flaws in them but I'm probably wasting my time, aren't I. |
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Deleted
🗨️ 0
👍🏻
January 1970
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Brexit
Dec 12, 2018 18:56:53 GMT 1
Brexit, by Deleted on Dec 12, 2018 18:56:53 GMT 1, Labour Party policies Ban companies based in tax havens bidding for government contracts It's astounding that this isn't the case already. How on earth could anyone even attempt to justify taxpayers' cash being paid to companies based in tax havens for the purpose of dodging tax? £10 minimum wage for all workers over the age of 18 The UK is the only country in the developed world where workers' wages are declining in real terms, while the economy is actually growing. A £10 minimum wage would help to reverse this scenario, and it would also significantly reduce the cost of in-work benefits like tax credits and housing benefit (most of which goes to working families these days). All rented accommodation to be fit for human habitation Again, astounding that this isn't the case already, but in January 2016 the Tories (over 1/3 of whom are landlords) deliberately voted down a Labour Party amendment to their housing bill to ensure that all rented accommodation is fit for human habitation. Renationalise the railways This is a very popular policy that is supported by an overwhelming majority of the public. Do you support rail renationalisation too, or are you one of the minority who think that the current shambles is acceptable? Renationalise the NHS The Tory party have been carving up the English NHS and distributing the pieces to the private sector, Jeremy Corbyn has pledged to reverse this process. Are you one of the 84% of people who thinks the NHS should be run as a not for profit public service, or the 7% who agree with the ongoing Tory privatisation agenda? Free school meals The policy of providing free school meals to all school children between the ages of 4 and 11 is based on evidence based research showing that universal free school meals lead to significantly improved grades. It will be paid for by ending the generous tax breaks (public subsidies) for the 7% of kids who go to private fee-paying schools. Create a National Education Service Jeremy Corbyn believes that education is a right, not a commodity. He wants to create an integrated National Education Service to ensure that education is freely available to anyone who needs it. Scrap tuition fees Thanks to the Tories (and their Lib-Dem enablers) UK students now face the most expensive tuition fees in the industrialised world for study at public universities, meaning students typically leave university with £50,000 of debt, and two thirds of them will never pay off their student debts. Labour would end this lunacy by getting rid of student fees. Restore NHS Bursaries One of the first things Theresa My did when she came to power was to scrap NHS bursaries for nurses and other NHS workers. This removal of financial support for nurses has caused a huge 10,000 decline in the number of applicants to nursing courses. This collapse in nursing recruitment would be bad enough in its own right, but in combination with a record increase in the number of EU nurses quitting the NHS and a mind-boggling 92% fall in nursing recruitment from EU countries, the UK is clearly facing a massive NHS recruitment crisis. Labour would reverse this calamitous state of affairs by restoring NHS Bursaries for trainee nurses. Increase the carers allowance Labour are proposing to increase the Carers Allowance for the 1 million unpaid carers in the UK. This would be paid for by scrapping the Tories' Inheritance Tax cut for millionaires. Unpaid carers save the UK economy an estimated £132 million a year, and they're doing ever more work as a result of the £4.6 billion in Tory cuts to the social care budget. Create a National Investment Bank This is actually one of Jeremy Corbyn's best policies, but few people actually understand it. It's absolutely clear that allowing private banks to determine where money is invested ends up in huge speculative bubbles in housing and financial derivatives, while the real economy is starved of cash. A National Investment Bank would work by investing in things like infrastructure, services, businesses and regional development projects, and would end up becoming a kind of sovereign wealth fund for the UK. End the public sector pay freeze Under Tory rule UK workers suffered the longest sustained decline in real wages since records began. The public sector pay freeze contributed massively to this. You'd have to be economically illiterate to imagine that repressing public sector wages with below inflation pay rises for year after year would not exert downwards pressure on private sector wages too. Ending the public sector pay freeze would actually boost the economy by putting more money in people's pockets, meaning an increase in aggregate demand. End sweetheart tax deals between HMRC and massive corporations David Cameron (the son of a tax-dodger) repeatedly lied through his teeth about how serious he was about confronting tax-dodging, whilst allowing HMRC to concoct sweetheart deals with corporations like Google, Vodafone and Starbucks. One of the main reasons the corporate press are so strongly opposed to Jeremy Corbyn is that they know that unlike David Cameron, he's serious when he talks about clamping down on tax-dodging. Stop major corporations ripping off their suppliers Major corporations are withholding an astounding £26 billion through late payment, which is responsible for an estimated 50,000 small businesses going bust every year. The scale of this problem is so massive that it should be a national scandal, and Jeremy Corbyn is absolutely right to align himself with small businesses to defend their interests. Reverse the Tory corporation tax cuts Since 2010 the Tories have cut the rate of corporation tax for major multinational corporations from 28% to just 17% (by 2020) meaning the UK has one of the lowest corporation tax rates in the developed world. The global average is 27% and the G7 average is 32.3%. Theresa May has already threatened to lower the corporation tax even further to turn post-brexit Britiain into a tax haven economy, Corbyn is proposing to do the opposite and increase corporation tax rates so they're more in line with the rest of the developed world. Defend Human Rights Theresa May has repeatedly expressed her intention to tear up Winston Churchill's finest legacy, the European Convention on Human Rights. Labour would oppose this Tory attack on our human rights. Zero Hours Contracts ban Almost a million UK workers are now on exploitative Zero Hours Contracts. Last year the New Zealand parliament voted to ban them, and Labour is proposing to do the same. Long-term employees and workers doing regular hours would be protected from Zero Hours Contract exploitation. Holding the Tories to account over Brexit Labour have said that they won't block Brexit, but they will seek to hold the Tories to account over it. A landslide Tory victory would be a disaster for the UK because it would allow Theresa May to pursue the most right-wing pro-corporate anti-worker Brexit possible with almost no democratic scrutiny. The only way to make sure the Tories don't push a fanatically right-wing Brexit on the nation is to ensure that there are plenty of opposition MPs to hold them to account. Housebuilding Under the Tory government the level of UK housebuilding has slumped to the lowest levels since the 1920s, even though demand for housing is extremely high. Labour are guaranteeing to invest in a programme of housebuilding, and committing to ensure that half of the new houses are social housing. This wouldn't just alleviate the housing crisis, it would also stimulate the economy by increasing aggregate demand. Combat inequality George Osborne's ideological austerity agenda resulted in the longest sustained decline in workers' wages since records began and condemned an additional 400,000 children to growing up in poverty, meanwhile the tiny super-rich majority literally doubled their wealth. Labour is pledging to reduce the inequality gap and introduce progressive policies to reduce the gap between the incomes of the highest and lowest paid. There is plenty of evidence to show that the least unequal societies are more economically successful places where the people are happier. I don't know if this was a cut and paste job from the Labour Party website. If so, it's hardly an impartial perspective on things. But if it wasn't, allow me to unpick just a few of these points... 1. "£10 minimum wage for all workers over the age of 18". This sounds great but, hang on a minute... what would be the ramifications of such a move? Many small companies that are just about managing to stay afloat, can not afford to pay their employees such an increase. If they were forced to do so, the result could be...more redundancies, more businesses collapsing, more unemployment, less income tax to government, more government spending on welfare benefits. Can you see how these things work and the potential ramifications of such actions? 2. "Renationalise the railways". Good god, I hope not! I am old enough to remember what nationalised railways looked like...vandalised trains with ripped seats with springs hanging out of them, huge overcrowding, unreliable (I've lost count how often I was late for work because the trains were cancelled and even when they were not, I had to stand for the complete journey, as did everybody else, because all the seats were so badly vandalised). If the trains were nationalised and the economy takes a nosedive, the self same thing is probably going to happen again. Why do people assume nationalisation = good and privatisation = bad. The evidence does not support such an assumption. 3. "Renationalise the NHS". I worked in the NHS for 20 years. I saw first hand the amount of waste of money and resources. And that is partly due to being in the public rather than the private sector. There is currently no incentive to make hospitals cost-efficient or to use resources wisely. Why bother when the outcome will be the same regardless of how the hospitals are run. 4. "Free school meals". Another ill-thought out policy. All this would do is take away money which should be spent on poor people which instead is being spent on the vast majority of pupils who do not need free meals (including kids from rich backgrounds) but would be getting the free meals anyway. I could go through lots of these other Labour policies and point out the flaws in them but I'm probably wasting my time, aren't I.
1. £10 min Wage is good, it should be more. stop treating people like slaves. all this Uber, sports direct & Amazon shit. Pay people, employ people, give them holiday and sick pay, allow them to be able to get out of poverty for doing work, not have to use food banks, or rely on the Government to prop up their salary. Get the money circulating, the more people earn the more they spend, it's an absolute fucking disgrace. Big business love to pay their shareholders rather than their staff, look at all the supermarkets with their self service tills that everyone but me seems to use, why did they install these? was it for the customer? or for the shareholder? it certainly wasn't for the staff was it. i am rambling again
Labour Party policies Ban companies based in tax havens bidding for government contracts It's astounding that this isn't the case already. How on earth could anyone even attempt to justify taxpayers' cash being paid to companies based in tax havens for the purpose of dodging tax? £10 minimum wage for all workers over the age of 18 The UK is the only country in the developed world where workers' wages are declining in real terms, while the economy is actually growing. A £10 minimum wage would help to reverse this scenario, and it would also significantly reduce the cost of in-work benefits like tax credits and housing benefit (most of which goes to working families these days). All rented accommodation to be fit for human habitation Again, astounding that this isn't the case already, but in January 2016 the Tories (over 1/3 of whom are landlords) deliberately voted down a Labour Party amendment to their housing bill to ensure that all rented accommodation is fit for human habitation. Renationalise the railways This is a very popular policy that is supported by an overwhelming majority of the public. Do you support rail renationalisation too, or are you one of the minority who think that the current shambles is acceptable? Renationalise the NHS The Tory party have been carving up the English NHS and distributing the pieces to the private sector, Jeremy Corbyn has pledged to reverse this process. Are you one of the 84% of people who thinks the NHS should be run as a not for profit public service, or the 7% who agree with the ongoing Tory privatisation agenda? Free school meals The policy of providing free school meals to all school children between the ages of 4 and 11 is based on evidence based research showing that universal free school meals lead to significantly improved grades. It will be paid for by ending the generous tax breaks (public subsidies) for the 7% of kids who go to private fee-paying schools. Create a National Education Service Jeremy Corbyn believes that education is a right, not a commodity. He wants to create an integrated National Education Service to ensure that education is freely available to anyone who needs it. Scrap tuition fees Thanks to the Tories (and their Lib-Dem enablers) UK students now face the most expensive tuition fees in the industrialised world for study at public universities, meaning students typically leave university with £50,000 of debt, and two thirds of them will never pay off their student debts. Labour would end this lunacy by getting rid of student fees. Restore NHS Bursaries One of the first things Theresa My did when she came to power was to scrap NHS bursaries for nurses and other NHS workers. This removal of financial support for nurses has caused a huge 10,000 decline in the number of applicants to nursing courses. This collapse in nursing recruitment would be bad enough in its own right, but in combination with a record increase in the number of EU nurses quitting the NHS and a mind-boggling 92% fall in nursing recruitment from EU countries, the UK is clearly facing a massive NHS recruitment crisis. Labour would reverse this calamitous state of affairs by restoring NHS Bursaries for trainee nurses. Increase the carers allowance Labour are proposing to increase the Carers Allowance for the 1 million unpaid carers in the UK. This would be paid for by scrapping the Tories' Inheritance Tax cut for millionaires. Unpaid carers save the UK economy an estimated £132 million a year, and they're doing ever more work as a result of the £4.6 billion in Tory cuts to the social care budget. Create a National Investment Bank This is actually one of Jeremy Corbyn's best policies, but few people actually understand it. It's absolutely clear that allowing private banks to determine where money is invested ends up in huge speculative bubbles in housing and financial derivatives, while the real economy is starved of cash. A National Investment Bank would work by investing in things like infrastructure, services, businesses and regional development projects, and would end up becoming a kind of sovereign wealth fund for the UK. End the public sector pay freeze Under Tory rule UK workers suffered the longest sustained decline in real wages since records began. The public sector pay freeze contributed massively to this. You'd have to be economically illiterate to imagine that repressing public sector wages with below inflation pay rises for year after year would not exert downwards pressure on private sector wages too. Ending the public sector pay freeze would actually boost the economy by putting more money in people's pockets, meaning an increase in aggregate demand. End sweetheart tax deals between HMRC and massive corporations David Cameron (the son of a tax-dodger) repeatedly lied through his teeth about how serious he was about confronting tax-dodging, whilst allowing HMRC to concoct sweetheart deals with corporations like Google, Vodafone and Starbucks. One of the main reasons the corporate press are so strongly opposed to Jeremy Corbyn is that they know that unlike David Cameron, he's serious when he talks about clamping down on tax-dodging. Stop major corporations ripping off their suppliers Major corporations are withholding an astounding £26 billion through late payment, which is responsible for an estimated 50,000 small businesses going bust every year. The scale of this problem is so massive that it should be a national scandal, and Jeremy Corbyn is absolutely right to align himself with small businesses to defend their interests. Reverse the Tory corporation tax cuts Since 2010 the Tories have cut the rate of corporation tax for major multinational corporations from 28% to just 17% (by 2020) meaning the UK has one of the lowest corporation tax rates in the developed world. The global average is 27% and the G7 average is 32.3%. Theresa May has already threatened to lower the corporation tax even further to turn post-brexit Britiain into a tax haven economy, Corbyn is proposing to do the opposite and increase corporation tax rates so they're more in line with the rest of the developed world. Defend Human Rights Theresa May has repeatedly expressed her intention to tear up Winston Churchill's finest legacy, the European Convention on Human Rights. Labour would oppose this Tory attack on our human rights. Zero Hours Contracts ban Almost a million UK workers are now on exploitative Zero Hours Contracts. Last year the New Zealand parliament voted to ban them, and Labour is proposing to do the same. Long-term employees and workers doing regular hours would be protected from Zero Hours Contract exploitation. Holding the Tories to account over Brexit Labour have said that they won't block Brexit, but they will seek to hold the Tories to account over it. A landslide Tory victory would be a disaster for the UK because it would allow Theresa May to pursue the most right-wing pro-corporate anti-worker Brexit possible with almost no democratic scrutiny. The only way to make sure the Tories don't push a fanatically right-wing Brexit on the nation is to ensure that there are plenty of opposition MPs to hold them to account. Housebuilding Under the Tory government the level of UK housebuilding has slumped to the lowest levels since the 1920s, even though demand for housing is extremely high. Labour are guaranteeing to invest in a programme of housebuilding, and committing to ensure that half of the new houses are social housing. This wouldn't just alleviate the housing crisis, it would also stimulate the economy by increasing aggregate demand. Combat inequality George Osborne's ideological austerity agenda resulted in the longest sustained decline in workers' wages since records began and condemned an additional 400,000 children to growing up in poverty, meanwhile the tiny super-rich majority literally doubled their wealth. Labour is pledging to reduce the inequality gap and introduce progressive policies to reduce the gap between the incomes of the highest and lowest paid. There is plenty of evidence to show that the least unequal societies are more economically successful places where the people are happier. I don't know if this was a cut and paste job from the Labour Party website. If so, it's hardly an impartial perspective on things. But if it wasn't, allow me to unpick just a few of these points... 1. "£10 minimum wage for all workers over the age of 18". This sounds great but, hang on a minute... what would be the ramifications of such a move? Many small companies that are just about managing to stay afloat, can not afford to pay their employees such an increase. If they were forced to do so, the result could be...more redundancies, more businesses collapsing, more unemployment, less income tax to government, more government spending on welfare benefits. Can you see how these things work and the potential ramifications of such actions? 2. "Renationalise the railways". Good god, I hope not! I am old enough to remember what nationalised railways looked like...vandalised trains with ripped seats with springs hanging out of them, huge overcrowding, unreliable (I've lost count how often I was late for work because the trains were cancelled and even when they were not, I had to stand for the complete journey, as did everybody else, because all the seats were so badly vandalised). If the trains were nationalised and the economy takes a nosedive, the self same thing is probably going to happen again. Why do people assume nationalisation = good and privatisation = bad. The evidence does not support such an assumption. 3. "Renationalise the NHS". I worked in the NHS for 20 years. I saw first hand the amount of waste of money and resources. And that is partly due to being in the public rather than the private sector. There is currently no incentive to make hospitals cost-efficient or to use resources wisely. Why bother when the outcome will be the same regardless of how the hospitals are run. 4. "Free school meals". Another ill-thought out policy. All this would do is take away money which should be spent on poor people which instead is being spent on the vast majority of pupils who do not need free meals (including kids from rich backgrounds) but would be getting the free meals anyway. I could go through lots of these other Labour policies and point out the flaws in them but I'm probably wasting my time, aren't I. 1. £10 min Wage is good, it should be more. stop treating people like slaves. all this Uber, sports direct & Amazon shit. Pay people, employ people, give them holiday and sick pay, allow them to be able to get out of poverty for doing work, not have to use food banks, or rely on the Government to prop up their salary. Get the money circulating, the more people earn the more they spend, it's an absolute fucking disgrace. Big business love to pay their shareholders rather than their staff, look at all the supermarkets with their self service tills that everyone but me seems to use, why did they install these? was it for the customer? or for the shareholder? it certainly wasn't for the staff was it. i am rambling again |
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Leo Boyd
Artist
Junior Member
🗨️ 1,476
👍🏻 2,090
June 2016
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Brexit
Dec 12, 2018 19:07:57 GMT 1
Brexit, by Leo Boyd on Dec 12, 2018 19:07:57 GMT 1, I like all of that except you can shove the corp tax up your arse that affects me :-) On a more serious note, low corp tax brings in businesses. look at Dublin
I like all of that except you can shove the corp tax up your arse that affects me :-) On a more serious note, low corp tax brings in businesses. look at Dublin You mean the low corporation tax in ireland that none of the corporations actually pay? |
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love
Junior Member
🗨️ 1,649
👍🏻 391
October 2009
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Brexit
Dec 12, 2018 19:50:24 GMT 1
Brexit, by love on Dec 12, 2018 19:50:24 GMT 1,
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gd79
Junior Member
🗨️ 1,132
👍🏻 1,221
September 2015
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Brexit
Dec 12, 2018 21:35:41 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by gd79 on Dec 12, 2018 21:35:41 GMT 1, The confidence vote will clash with the semi final of the apprentice tonight.
I know which I will watch. The average IQ will probably be higher too
The confidence vote will clash with the semi final of the apprentice tonight.
I know which I will watch. The average IQ will probably be higher too
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shy
Junior Member
🗨️ 1,590
👍🏻 646
June 2018
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Brexit
Dec 12, 2018 22:43:35 GMT 1
Brexit, by shy on Dec 12, 2018 22:43:35 GMT 1, well, it's same old- same old. Nothing has changed.
Banksy's Parliament poster is truer than ever!
well, it's same old- same old. Nothing has changed.
Banksy's Parliament poster is truer than ever!
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mojo
Junior Member
🗨️ 2,190
👍🏻 3,720
May 2014
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Brexit
Dec 12, 2018 22:44:57 GMT 1
Brexit, by mojo on Dec 12, 2018 22:44:57 GMT 1, Best 'This Week' ever! I'm with Bobby! I thought Bobby appeared as a mono-syllabic moron with absolutely nothing to say. And he had a face like a slapped arse.
You're a right charmer you!
Best 'This Week' ever! I'm with Bobby! I thought Bobby appeared as a mono-syllabic moron with absolutely nothing to say. And he had a face like a slapped arse. Well I'm sure he speaks very highly of you too. He's managed to tour and sell millions of records all over the world so not doing too badly for a "mono-syllabic moron with nothing to say with a face like a slapped arse". You're a right charmer you! |
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Brexit
Dec 12, 2018 23:17:05 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by Daylight Robber on Dec 12, 2018 23:17:05 GMT 1, 200 votes for May in her confidence vote. It's fair to suggest that's only 200 votes for her deal. I think we're now at a point where there's no way, no matter what games she plays, that it will pass. I can't see Commons not blocking a no deal Brexit, which means that she'll have to either ask the EU if Article 50 can be suspended so that we can have another Referendum, or revoke it altogether.
200 votes for May in her confidence vote. It's fair to suggest that's only 200 votes for her deal. I think we're now at a point where there's no way, no matter what games she plays, that it will pass. I can't see Commons not blocking a no deal Brexit, which means that she'll have to either ask the EU if Article 50 can be suspended so that we can have another Referendum, or revoke it altogether.
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rebate
Junior Member
🗨️ 1,050
👍🏻 961
January 2018
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Brexit
Dec 12, 2018 23:27:38 GMT 1
Brexit, by rebate on Dec 12, 2018 23:27:38 GMT 1, 200 votes for May in her confidence vote. It's fair to suggest that's only 200 votes for her deal. I think we're now at a point where there's no way, no matter what games she plays, that it will pass. I can't see Commons not blocking a no deal Brexit, which means that she'll have to either ask the EU if Article 50 can be suspended so that we can have another Referendum, or revoke it altogether.
She doesnt care how she looks or about doing the right thing, so she wont care that nearly 40% of her party think she is crap and should go.
.
200 votes for May in her confidence vote. It's fair to suggest that's only 200 votes for her deal. I think we're now at a point where there's no way, no matter what games she plays, that it will pass. I can't see Commons not blocking a no deal Brexit, which means that she'll have to either ask the EU if Article 50 can be suspended so that we can have another Referendum, or revoke it altogether. I have a nasty feeling she will try and kick it down the road and into hard brexit like it or not by passing the deadline, then leave. Without DUP she wont lose a no conf in government, and DUP hate labour so its stalemate. She doesnt care how she looks or about doing the right thing, so she wont care that nearly 40% of her party think she is crap and should go. . |
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Brexit
Dec 13, 2018 1:09:17 GMT 1
Brexit, by Maxi Minus on Dec 13, 2018 1:09:17 GMT 1, art and politics, like oil and water
art and politics, like oil and water
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Deleted
🗨️ 0
👍🏻
January 1970
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Brexit
Dec 13, 2018 11:31:26 GMT 1
Brexit, by Deleted on Dec 13, 2018 11:31:26 GMT 1, Perhaps someone could explain something to me...
What will a change of PM actually achieve? The withdrawal agreement has already been signed. If Boris became the PM tomorrow how would he be able to alter anything? People must be clearly deluded if they think that with a change of PM we could go back to the EU and say "forget about the last 2 years of work; can we start the negotiations all over again please".
These anti-May Brexiters have completely lost the plot.
Perhaps someone could explain something to me...
What will a change of PM actually achieve? The withdrawal agreement has already been signed. If Boris became the PM tomorrow how would he be able to alter anything? People must be clearly deluded if they think that with a change of PM we could go back to the EU and say "forget about the last 2 years of work; can we start the negotiations all over again please".
These anti-May Brexiters have completely lost the plot.
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Brexit
Dec 13, 2018 12:08:19 GMT 1
Brexit, by Happy Shopper on Dec 13, 2018 12:08:19 GMT 1, Perhaps someone could explain something to me... What will a change of PM actually achieve? The withdrawal agreement has already been signed. If Boris became the PM tomorrow how would he be able to alter anything? People must be clearly deluded if they think that with a change of PM we could go back to the EU and say "forget about the last 2 years of work; can we start the negotiations all over again please". These anti-May Brexiters have completely lost the plot.
It's OK. The BBC were already blaming Labour for the turmoil and playing political games this morning.
Perhaps someone could explain something to me... What will a change of PM actually achieve? The withdrawal agreement has already been signed. If Boris became the PM tomorrow how would he be able to alter anything? People must be clearly deluded if they think that with a change of PM we could go back to the EU and say "forget about the last 2 years of work; can we start the negotiations all over again please". These anti-May Brexiters have completely lost the plot. It's OK. The BBC were already blaming Labour for the turmoil and playing political games this morning. |
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Brexit
Dec 13, 2018 12:36:30 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by Schrödinger's Chat on Dec 13, 2018 12:36:30 GMT 1, I think it's more or less impossible to explain anything brexit related now. It's difficult to see how the Tories could make any more of a mess of it, on the flip side labour and the ERG etc have offered precisely no alternative solution either.
May keeps her job only by promising that she won't stick around much longer, not a great footing to be on.
A complete omnishambles.
I think it's more or less impossible to explain anything brexit related now. It's difficult to see how the Tories could make any more of a mess of it, on the flip side labour and the ERG etc have offered precisely no alternative solution either.
May keeps her job only by promising that she won't stick around much longer, not a great footing to be on.
A complete omnishambles.
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Deleted
🗨️ 0
👍🏻
January 1970
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Brexit
Dec 13, 2018 12:48:44 GMT 1
Brexit, by Deleted on Dec 13, 2018 12:48:44 GMT 1, Perhaps someone could explain something to me... What will a change of PM actually achieve? The withdrawal agreement has already been signed. If Boris became the PM tomorrow how would he be able to alter anything? People must be clearly deluded if they think that with a change of PM we could go back to the EU and say "forget about the last 2 years of work; can we start the negotiations all over again please". These anti-May Brexiters have completely lost the plot. It's OK. The BBC were already blaming Labour for the turmoil and playing political games this morning.
Perhaps someone could explain something to me... What will a change of PM actually achieve? The withdrawal agreement has already been signed. If Boris became the PM tomorrow how would he be able to alter anything? People must be clearly deluded if they think that with a change of PM we could go back to the EU and say "forget about the last 2 years of work; can we start the negotiations all over again please". These anti-May Brexiters have completely lost the plot. It's OK. The BBC were already blaming Labour for the turmoil and playing political games this morning. I don't blame Labour but they are playing politics here. They are not doing what they think is best for the country. All they are interested in is what will help them get in to government. Right now, nothing else matters to them. |
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Brexit
Dec 13, 2018 12:56:44 GMT 1
Brexit, by Happy Shopper on Dec 13, 2018 12:56:44 GMT 1, It's OK. The BBC were already blaming Labour for the turmoil and playing political games this morning. I don't blame Labour but they are playing politics here. They are not doing what they think is best for the country. All they are interested in is what will help them get in to government. Right now, nothing else matters to them.
I don't understand what else Labour can say or do? They ARE saying what they think will be best for the country. Their 6 points are fairly generic, but at least they put them up for discussion.
Yes, May failing will benefit them. But that's happening anyway.
It's OK. The BBC were already blaming Labour for the turmoil and playing political games this morning. I don't blame Labour but they are playing politics here. They are not doing what they think is best for the country. All they are interested in is what will help them get in to government. Right now, nothing else matters to them. I don't understand what else Labour can say or do? They ARE saying what they think will be best for the country. Their 6 points are fairly generic, but at least they put them up for discussion. Yes, May failing will benefit them. But that's happening anyway. |
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Brexit
Dec 13, 2018 13:05:46 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by Coach on Dec 13, 2018 13:05:46 GMT 1, I don't blame Labour but they are playing politics here. They are not doing what they think is best for the country. All they are interested in is what will help them get in to government. Right now, nothing else matters to them. I don't understand what else Labour can say or do? They ARE saying what they think will be best for the country. Their 6 points are fairly generic, but at least they put them up for discussion. Yes, May failing will benefit them. But that's happening anyway.
Tbh, as a life long labour supporter, I’m not clear on labour’s position regarding Brexit. They are clear that they are not backing May’s deal. But not clear on their alternative, save to call for a general election (which May clearly won’t call at the moment) and that they are not talking a second referendum off the table. I would like them to say what they would support, not what they wouldn’t take off the table. After all, they have a sizeable chunk of the votes in the Commons.
I don't blame Labour but they are playing politics here. They are not doing what they think is best for the country. All they are interested in is what will help them get in to government. Right now, nothing else matters to them. I don't understand what else Labour can say or do? They ARE saying what they think will be best for the country. Their 6 points are fairly generic, but at least they put them up for discussion. Yes, May failing will benefit them. But that's happening anyway. Tbh, as a life long labour supporter, I’m not clear on labour’s position regarding Brexit. They are clear that they are not backing May’s deal. But not clear on their alternative, save to call for a general election (which May clearly won’t call at the moment) and that they are not talking a second referendum off the table. I would like them to say what they would support, not what they wouldn’t take off the table. After all, they have a sizeable chunk of the votes in the Commons. |
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Brexit
Dec 13, 2018 13:09:10 GMT 1
Brexit, by Happy Shopper on Dec 13, 2018 13:09:10 GMT 1, I don't understand what else Labour can say or do? They ARE saying what they think will be best for the country. Their 6 points are fairly generic, but at least they put them up for discussion. Yes, May failing will benefit them. But that's happening anyway. Tbh, as a life long labour supporter, I’m not clear on labour’s position regarding Brexit. They are clear that they are not backing May’s deal. But not clear on their alternative, save to call for a general election (which May clearly won’t call at the moment) and that they are not talking a second referendum off the table. I would like them to say what they would support, not what they wouldn’t take off the table. After all, they have a sizeable chunk of the votes in the Commons.
Labour's 6 tests for Brexit:
1. Does it ensure a strong and collaborative future relationship with the EU?
2. Does it deliver the “exact same benefits” as we currently have as members of the Single Market and Customs Union?
3. Does it ensure the fair management of migration in the interests of the economy and communities?
4. Does it defend rights and protections and prevent a race to the bottom?
5. Does it protect national security and our capacity to tackle cross-border crime?
6. Does it deliver for all regions and nations of the UK?
I'm not sure all those things are possible, but at least it's an upfront starting point for negotiation.
Conservatives don't seem to publicly have a similar set of objectives.
I don't understand what else Labour can say or do? They ARE saying what they think will be best for the country. Their 6 points are fairly generic, but at least they put them up for discussion. Yes, May failing will benefit them. But that's happening anyway. Tbh, as a life long labour supporter, I’m not clear on labour’s position regarding Brexit. They are clear that they are not backing May’s deal. But not clear on their alternative, save to call for a general election (which May clearly won’t call at the moment) and that they are not talking a second referendum off the table. I would like them to say what they would support, not what they wouldn’t take off the table. After all, they have a sizeable chunk of the votes in the Commons. Labour's 6 tests for Brexit: 1. Does it ensure a strong and collaborative future relationship with the EU? 2. Does it deliver the “exact same benefits” as we currently have as members of the Single Market and Customs Union? 3. Does it ensure the fair management of migration in the interests of the economy and communities? 4. Does it defend rights and protections and prevent a race to the bottom? 5. Does it protect national security and our capacity to tackle cross-border crime? 6. Does it deliver for all regions and nations of the UK? I'm not sure all those things are possible, but at least it's an upfront starting point for negotiation.
Conservatives don't seem to publicly have a similar set of objectives. |
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Brexit
Dec 13, 2018 13:22:56 GMT 1
Brexit, by Deleted on Dec 13, 2018 13:22:56 GMT 1, Tbh, as a life long labour supporter, I’m not clear on labour’s position regarding Brexit. They are clear that they are not backing May’s deal. But not clear on their alternative, save to call for a general election (which May clearly won’t call at the moment) and that they are not talking a second referendum off the table. I would like them to say what they would support, not what they wouldn’t take off the table. After all, they have a sizeable chunk of the votes in the Commons. Labour's 6 tests for Brexit: 1. Does it ensure a strong and collaborative future relationship with the EU? 2. Does it deliver the “exact same benefits” as we currently have as members of the Single Market and Customs Union? 3. Does it ensure the fair management of migration in the interests of the economy and communities? 4. Does it defend rights and protections and prevent a race to the bottom? 5. Does it protect national security and our capacity to tackle cross-border crime? 6. Does it deliver for all regions and nations of the UK? I'm not sure all those things are possible, but at least it's an upfront starting point for negotiation.
Conservatives don't seem to publicly have a similar set of objectives.
Number 2 is, quite frankly, absurd. You can't expect to get the "exact same benefits" when you are outside the EU. It doesn't even make sense to ask for it. It's like leaving a book club and expecting to still receive the book club discount after you've left the club.
Tbh, as a life long labour supporter, I’m not clear on labour’s position regarding Brexit. They are clear that they are not backing May’s deal. But not clear on their alternative, save to call for a general election (which May clearly won’t call at the moment) and that they are not talking a second referendum off the table. I would like them to say what they would support, not what they wouldn’t take off the table. After all, they have a sizeable chunk of the votes in the Commons. Labour's 6 tests for Brexit: 1. Does it ensure a strong and collaborative future relationship with the EU? 2. Does it deliver the “exact same benefits” as we currently have as members of the Single Market and Customs Union? 3. Does it ensure the fair management of migration in the interests of the economy and communities? 4. Does it defend rights and protections and prevent a race to the bottom? 5. Does it protect national security and our capacity to tackle cross-border crime? 6. Does it deliver for all regions and nations of the UK? I'm not sure all those things are possible, but at least it's an upfront starting point for negotiation.
Conservatives don't seem to publicly have a similar set of objectives.The thing about Labour's six tests is that the best way to achieve all six is to remain in the EU. Job done! Number 2 is, quite frankly, absurd. You can't expect to get the "exact same benefits" when you are outside the EU. It doesn't even make sense to ask for it. It's like leaving a book club and expecting to still receive the book club discount after you've left the club. |
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Brexit
Dec 13, 2018 13:29:49 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by Coach on Dec 13, 2018 13:29:49 GMT 1, Tbh, as a life long labour supporter, I’m not clear on labour’s position regarding Brexit. They are clear that they are not backing May’s deal. But not clear on their alternative, save to call for a general election (which May clearly won’t call at the moment) and that they are not talking a second referendum off the table. I would like them to say what they would support, not what they wouldn’t take off the table. After all, they have a sizeable chunk of the votes in the Commons. Labour's 6 tests for Brexit: 1. Does it ensure a strong and collaborative future relationship with the EU? 2. Does it deliver the “exact same benefits” as we currently have as members of the Single Market and Customs Union? 3. Does it ensure the fair management of migration in the interests of the economy and communities? 4. Does it defend rights and protections and prevent a race to the bottom? 5. Does it protect national security and our capacity to tackle cross-border crime? 6. Does it deliver for all regions and nations of the UK? I'm not sure all those things are possible, but at least it's an upfront starting point for negotiation.
Conservatives don't seem to publicly have a similar set of objectives.
Thank you. The problem is, though, that there’s three months to go. And the EU have said it’s this deal or nothing (save for some clarification). So what are labour saying should be done in these circumstances. I would like them to come out and say what should happen.
Unless I’m missing something it seems to me that the options now are:
May’s deal
Leave with no deal
Delay for second referendum
Or (as Ken Clarke suggested yesterday) revoke article 50, so that we can agree what we want, then trigger it again (the start all over again, as we’ve messed it up option)
Are there any others?
And this is my point, I would like labour to say which of those options they support.
But I guess the problem is that they can’t agree amongst themselves, just as the tories can’t.
Tbh, as a life long labour supporter, I’m not clear on labour’s position regarding Brexit. They are clear that they are not backing May’s deal. But not clear on their alternative, save to call for a general election (which May clearly won’t call at the moment) and that they are not talking a second referendum off the table. I would like them to say what they would support, not what they wouldn’t take off the table. After all, they have a sizeable chunk of the votes in the Commons. Labour's 6 tests for Brexit: 1. Does it ensure a strong and collaborative future relationship with the EU? 2. Does it deliver the “exact same benefits” as we currently have as members of the Single Market and Customs Union? 3. Does it ensure the fair management of migration in the interests of the economy and communities? 4. Does it defend rights and protections and prevent a race to the bottom? 5. Does it protect national security and our capacity to tackle cross-border crime? 6. Does it deliver for all regions and nations of the UK? I'm not sure all those things are possible, but at least it's an upfront starting point for negotiation.
Conservatives don't seem to publicly have a similar set of objectives.Thank you. The problem is, though, that there’s three months to go. And the EU have said it’s this deal or nothing (save for some clarification). So what are labour saying should be done in these circumstances. I would like them to come out and say what should happen. Unless I’m missing something it seems to me that the options now are: May’s deal Leave with no deal Delay for second referendum Or (as Ken Clarke suggested yesterday) revoke article 50, so that we can agree what we want, then trigger it again (the start all over again, as we’ve messed it up option) Are there any others? And this is my point, I would like labour to say which of those options they support. But I guess the problem is that they can’t agree amongst themselves, just as the tories can’t. |
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Brexit
Dec 13, 2018 13:31:47 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by Coach on Dec 13, 2018 13:31:47 GMT 1, Labour's 6 tests for Brexit: 1. Does it ensure a strong and collaborative future relationship with the EU? 2. Does it deliver the “exact same benefits” as we currently have as members of the Single Market and Customs Union? 3. Does it ensure the fair management of migration in the interests of the economy and communities? 4. Does it defend rights and protections and prevent a race to the bottom? 5. Does it protect national security and our capacity to tackle cross-border crime? 6. Does it deliver for all regions and nations of the UK? I'm not sure all those things are possible, but at least it's an upfront starting point for negotiation.
Conservatives don't seem to publicly have a similar set of objectives.The thing about Labour's six tests is that the best way to achieve all six is to remain in the EU. Job done! Number 2 is, quite frankly, absurd. You can't expect to get the "exact same benefits" when you are outside the EU. It doesn't even make sense to ask for it. It's like leaving a book club and expecting to still receive the book club discount after you've left the club.
The “exact same benefits” test comes from the brexiteers asserting that that is what would be achieved. I think Labour know it’s not possible. It’s making a point about what was promised, I think.
I can’t recall who promised it in the first place. Gove?
Labour's 6 tests for Brexit: 1. Does it ensure a strong and collaborative future relationship with the EU? 2. Does it deliver the “exact same benefits” as we currently have as members of the Single Market and Customs Union? 3. Does it ensure the fair management of migration in the interests of the economy and communities? 4. Does it defend rights and protections and prevent a race to the bottom? 5. Does it protect national security and our capacity to tackle cross-border crime? 6. Does it deliver for all regions and nations of the UK? I'm not sure all those things are possible, but at least it's an upfront starting point for negotiation.
Conservatives don't seem to publicly have a similar set of objectives.The thing about Labour's six tests is that the best way to achieve all six is to remain in the EU. Job done! Number 2 is, quite frankly, absurd. You can't expect to get the "exact same benefits" when you are outside the EU. It doesn't even make sense to ask for it. It's like leaving a book club and expecting to still receive the book club discount after you've left the club. The “exact same benefits” test comes from the brexiteers asserting that that is what would be achieved. I think Labour know it’s not possible. It’s making a point about what was promised, I think. I can’t recall who promised it in the first place. Gove? |
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Brexit
Dec 13, 2018 13:44:02 GMT 1
Brexit, by Happy Shopper on Dec 13, 2018 13:44:02 GMT 1, Labour's 6 tests for Brexit: 1. Does it ensure a strong and collaborative future relationship with the EU? 2. Does it deliver the “exact same benefits” as we currently have as members of the Single Market and Customs Union? 3. Does it ensure the fair management of migration in the interests of the economy and communities? 4. Does it defend rights and protections and prevent a race to the bottom? 5. Does it protect national security and our capacity to tackle cross-border crime? 6. Does it deliver for all regions and nations of the UK? I'm not sure all those things are possible, but at least it's an upfront starting point for negotiation.
Conservatives don't seem to publicly have a similar set of objectives.Number 2 is, quite frankly, absurd. You can't expect to get the "exact same benefits" when you are outside the EU. It doesn't even make sense to ask for it. It's like leaving a book club and expecting to still receive the book club discount after you've left the club.
Unfortunately it's also the only way to solve the Northern Ireland boarder issue.. So it's the one point that actually needs agreement!... That's why we are where we are, and for little other reason.
Labour's 6 tests for Brexit: 1. Does it ensure a strong and collaborative future relationship with the EU? 2. Does it deliver the “exact same benefits” as we currently have as members of the Single Market and Customs Union? 3. Does it ensure the fair management of migration in the interests of the economy and communities? 4. Does it defend rights and protections and prevent a race to the bottom? 5. Does it protect national security and our capacity to tackle cross-border crime? 6. Does it deliver for all regions and nations of the UK? I'm not sure all those things are possible, but at least it's an upfront starting point for negotiation.
Conservatives don't seem to publicly have a similar set of objectives.Number 2 is, quite frankly, absurd. You can't expect to get the "exact same benefits" when you are outside the EU. It doesn't even make sense to ask for it. It's like leaving a book club and expecting to still receive the book club discount after you've left the club. Unfortunately it's also the only way to solve the Northern Ireland boarder issue.. So it's the one point that actually needs agreement!... That's why we are where we are, and for little other reason. |
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loother
New Member
🗨️ 471
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October 2014
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Brexit
Dec 13, 2018 13:52:08 GMT 1
Brexit, by loother on Dec 13, 2018 13:52:08 GMT 1,
This is video of Theresa May explaining her position on Brexit in 2016. How does this tally with her stated position on Brexit since she became Prime Minister? Clearly either she is dishonest (her positions then and since being totally incompatible), or she has completely changed her mind since the referendum. I know which I think is more likely, but it is possible that she has become belatedly and completely convinced of the case for Brexit. If that is what has happened, though, why does she insist that the snapshot of public opinion taken in 2016, in which she cast her own vote for something she now completely disagrees with, represents the unimprovable "will of the people", and deny the rest of the electorate a chance to change their own minds?
I'm not convinced that a second referendum would produce a different outcome, and fear another campaign will be as damaging (and corrupt) as the first, but her positions on Brexit and a people's vote appear completely contradictory.
This is video of Theresa May explaining her position on Brexit in 2016. How does this tally with her stated position on Brexit since she became Prime Minister? Clearly either she is dishonest (her positions then and since being totally incompatible), or she has completely changed her mind since the referendum. I know which I think is more likely, but it is possible that she has become belatedly and completely convinced of the case for Brexit. If that is what has happened, though, why does she insist that the snapshot of public opinion taken in 2016, in which she cast her own vote for something she now completely disagrees with, represents the unimprovable "will of the people", and deny the rest of the electorate a chance to change their own minds?
I'm not convinced that a second referendum would produce a different outcome, and fear another campaign will be as damaging (and corrupt) as the first, but her positions on Brexit and a people's vote appear completely contradictory.
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loother
New Member
🗨️ 471
👍🏻 602
October 2014
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Brexit
Dec 13, 2018 13:57:34 GMT 1
Brexit, by loother on Dec 13, 2018 13:57:34 GMT 1, The “exact same benefits” test comes from the brexiteers asserting that that is what would be achieved. I think Labour know it’s not possible. It’s making a point about what was promised, I think. I can’t recall who promised it in the first place. Gove?
"My right hon. Friend the Member for Broxtowe (Anna Soubry) talks about things that were not on the ballot paper. What was on the ballot paper was leaving the European Union. I am afraid that it is very difficult to see how we can leave the European Union and still stay inside the single market, with all the commitments that go with that. What we have come up with—I hope to persuade her that this is a very worthwhile aim—is the idea of a comprehensive free trade agreement and a comprehensive customs agreement that will deliver the exact same benefits as we have, but also enable my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for International Trade to go and form trade deals with the rest of the world, which is the real upside of leaving the European Union.
"
The “exact same benefits” test comes from the brexiteers asserting that that is what would be achieved. I think Labour know it’s not possible. It’s making a point about what was promised, I think. I can’t recall who promised it in the first place. Gove? David Davis in the House of Commons, 27 January 2017: "My right hon. Friend the Member for Broxtowe (Anna Soubry) talks about things that were not on the ballot paper. What was on the ballot paper was leaving the European Union. I am afraid that it is very difficult to see how we can leave the European Union and still stay inside the single market, with all the commitments that go with that. What we have come up with—I hope to persuade her that this is a very worthwhile aim— is the idea of a comprehensive free trade agreement and a comprehensive customs agreement that will deliver the exact same benefits as we have, but also enable my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for International Trade to go and form trade deals with the rest of the world, which is the real upside of leaving the European Union. " |
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Deleted
🗨️ 0
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January 1970
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Brexit
Dec 13, 2018 13:59:03 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by Deleted on Dec 13, 2018 13:59:03 GMT 1, I think it's more or less impossible to explain anything brexit related now. It's difficult to see how the Tories could make any more of a mess of it, on the flip side labour and the ERG etc have offered precisely no alternative solution either. May keeps her job only by promising that she won't stick around much longer, not a great footing to be on. A complete omnishambles.
The ERG have said they will get a better deal. Thats all the detail we need isnt it? 😉
I think it's more or less impossible to explain anything brexit related now. It's difficult to see how the Tories could make any more of a mess of it, on the flip side labour and the ERG etc have offered precisely no alternative solution either. May keeps her job only by promising that she won't stick around much longer, not a great footing to be on. A complete omnishambles. The ERG have said they will get a better deal. Thats all the detail we need isnt it? 😉 |
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Brexit
Dec 13, 2018 14:04:58 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by Daylight Robber on Dec 13, 2018 14:04:58 GMT 1, Perhaps someone could explain something to me... What will a change of PM actually achieve? The withdrawal agreement has already been signed. If Boris became the PM tomorrow how would he be able to alter anything? People must be clearly deluded if they think that with a change of PM we could go back to the EU and say "forget about the last 2 years of work; can we start the negotiations all over again please". These anti-May Brexiters have completely lost the plot.
If any new Tory Leader wanted to renegotiate, all they'd have to do is rescind A50 and then table it again. That'd reset the clock.
Perhaps someone could explain something to me... What will a change of PM actually achieve? The withdrawal agreement has already been signed. If Boris became the PM tomorrow how would he be able to alter anything? People must be clearly deluded if they think that with a change of PM we could go back to the EU and say "forget about the last 2 years of work; can we start the negotiations all over again please". These anti-May Brexiters have completely lost the plot. If any new Tory Leader wanted to renegotiate, all they'd have to do is rescind A50 and then table it again. That'd reset the clock. |
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Matt
Junior Member
🗨️ 2,357
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September 2014
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Brexit
Dec 13, 2018 14:08:12 GMT 1
Brexit, by Matt on Dec 13, 2018 14:08:12 GMT 1, I don't blame Labour but they are playing politics here. They are not doing what they think is best for the country. All they are interested in is what will help them get in to government. Right now, nothing else matters to them. I don't understand what else Labour can say or do? They ARE saying what they think will be best for the country. Their 6 points are fairly generic, but at least they put them up for discussion. Yes, May failing will benefit them. But that's happening anyway.
Partisan politics aside, both parties are absolutely pathetic in this situation
Tories created a big mess, and are fighting amongst themselves over who can do the worst clean up job
Labour, have been given the gift of a self destructing Tories, and yet can't figure out their stance on Brexit and cobbled together this utterly pathetic list of wishful thinking even a 12 years old could see through
And the world watches in amazement as the circus continues...
I don't blame Labour but they are playing politics here. They are not doing what they think is best for the country. All they are interested in is what will help them get in to government. Right now, nothing else matters to them. I don't understand what else Labour can say or do? They ARE saying what they think will be best for the country. Their 6 points are fairly generic, but at least they put them up for discussion. Yes, May failing will benefit them. But that's happening anyway. Partisan politics aside, both parties are absolutely pathetic in this situation Tories created a big mess, and are fighting amongst themselves over who can do the worst clean up job Labour, have been given the gift of a self destructing Tories, and yet can't figure out their stance on Brexit and cobbled together this utterly pathetic list of wishful thinking even a 12 years old could see through And the world watches in amazement as the circus continues... |
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Brexit
Dec 13, 2018 14:32:23 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by Coach on Dec 13, 2018 14:32:23 GMT 1, The “exact same benefits” test comes from the brexiteers asserting that that is what would be achieved. I think Labour know it’s not possible. It’s making a point about what was promised, I think. I can’t recall who promised it in the first place. Gove? David Davis in the House of Commons, 27 January 2017: "My right hon. Friend the Member for Broxtowe (Anna Soubry) talks about things that were not on the ballot paper. What was on the ballot paper was leaving the European Union. I am afraid that it is very difficult to see how we can leave the European Union and still stay inside the single market, with all the commitments that go with that. What we have come up with—I hope to persuade her that this is a very worthwhile aim— is the idea of a comprehensive free trade agreement and a comprehensive customs agreement that will deliver the exact same benefits as we have, but also enable my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for International Trade to go and form trade deals with the rest of the world, which is the real upside of leaving the European Union. "
Yes, thank you loother, that’s the one.
The “exact same benefits” test comes from the brexiteers asserting that that is what would be achieved. I think Labour know it’s not possible. It’s making a point about what was promised, I think. I can’t recall who promised it in the first place. Gove? David Davis in the House of Commons, 27 January 2017: "My right hon. Friend the Member for Broxtowe (Anna Soubry) talks about things that were not on the ballot paper. What was on the ballot paper was leaving the European Union. I am afraid that it is very difficult to see how we can leave the European Union and still stay inside the single market, with all the commitments that go with that. What we have come up with—I hope to persuade her that this is a very worthwhile aim— is the idea of a comprehensive free trade agreement and a comprehensive customs agreement that will deliver the exact same benefits as we have, but also enable my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for International Trade to go and form trade deals with the rest of the world, which is the real upside of leaving the European Union. " Yes, thank you loother, that’s the one. |
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