k2
New Member
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November 2016
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Brexit
Mar 26, 2019 17:35:52 GMT 1
Brexit, by k2 on Mar 26, 2019 17:35:52 GMT 1, First of all, I would like to say that I wish all my discussions about Brexit had been as well mannered as my discussion with you. It makes a pleasant change not to face vitriol when having a political discussion. I appreciate that any vote for remain versus various leave options would split the leave vote and would be blatantly unfair. I have heard a discussion about this on the radio, and forgive me for not remembering the details, but it was made clear to me that such a vote was still possible, by way of weighted options. I have often heard it argued that there might then be a third or fourth vote. Personally I don’t think there is a risk of that. There was a non binding referendum nearly three years ago giving a binery choice of leave or remain. I believe there should be one more vote once the options that are truly available are known, as to which the public wants. Of course, in reality I don’t believe there should have been a vote in the first place. We have a representative democracy and so the decision was for those that we have voted to represent us. Vitriol is a waste of energy and time. If leavers and remainers had worked together towards the best deal possible instead of name calling then leave may have worked or been acceptable to everyone. . As it is everyone has been fighting over a question that’s been answered and 3 years have been wasted.
The sad thing is that if this shambles has taught us anything, it's that the prospect of us 'taking back control' and being responsible for making our own decisions is fairly terrifying.
While there certainly seem to be plenty of people who voted Leave who would now choose to Remain, there also seem to be many people who initially voted Remain but now feel strongly that we should respect the result of the first vote and Leave at any cost. I can certainly understand that position, although I don't happen to share it.
I know there are some in that boat on this forum - out of interest, if we *were* to hold a second referendum, would you vote to Remain again, or would you vote Leave this time in order to respect the initial outcome?
First of all, I would like to say that I wish all my discussions about Brexit had been as well mannered as my discussion with you. It makes a pleasant change not to face vitriol when having a political discussion. I appreciate that any vote for remain versus various leave options would split the leave vote and would be blatantly unfair. I have heard a discussion about this on the radio, and forgive me for not remembering the details, but it was made clear to me that such a vote was still possible, by way of weighted options. I have often heard it argued that there might then be a third or fourth vote. Personally I don’t think there is a risk of that. There was a non binding referendum nearly three years ago giving a binery choice of leave or remain. I believe there should be one more vote once the options that are truly available are known, as to which the public wants. Of course, in reality I don’t believe there should have been a vote in the first place. We have a representative democracy and so the decision was for those that we have voted to represent us. Vitriol is a waste of energy and time. If leavers and remainers had worked together towards the best deal possible instead of name calling then leave may have worked or been acceptable to everyone. . As it is everyone has been fighting over a question that’s been answered and 3 years have been wasted. 3 years and god knows how much money. The sad thing is that if this shambles has taught us anything, it's that the prospect of us 'taking back control' and being responsible for making our own decisions is fairly terrifying. While there certainly seem to be plenty of people who voted Leave who would now choose to Remain, there also seem to be many people who initially voted Remain but now feel strongly that we should respect the result of the first vote and Leave at any cost. I can certainly understand that position, although I don't happen to share it. I know there are some in that boat on this forum - out of interest, if we *were* to hold a second referendum, would you vote to Remain again, or would you vote Leave this time in order to respect the initial outcome? |
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vei
Junior Member
🗨️ 1,830
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February 2013
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Brexit
Mar 26, 2019 17:59:11 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by vei on Mar 26, 2019 17:59:11 GMT 1, Vitriol is a waste of energy and time. If leavers and remainers had worked together towards the best deal possible instead of name calling then leave may have worked or been acceptable to everyone. . As it is everyone has been fighting over a question that’s been answered and 3 years have been wasted. 3 years and god knows how much money. The sad thing is that if this shambles has taught us anything, it's that the prospect of us 'taking back control' and being responsible for making our own decisions is fairly terrifying. While there certainly seem to be plenty of people who voted Leave who would now choose to Remain, there also seem to be many people who initially voted Remain but now feel strongly that we should respect the result of the first vote and Leave at any cost. I can certainly understand that position, although I don't happen to share it. I know there are some in that boat on this forum - out of interest, if we *were* to hold a second referendum, would you vote to Remain again, or would you vote Leave this time in order to respect the initial outcome?
I would say something slightly different to you!
if this shambles has taught us anything about 'taking back control' and being responsible for making our own decisions. The current politicians in all parties are not capable.
‘If’ there was another referendum I would vote according to which option I thought was the right one. It doesn’t directly answer your question it’s not an easy question to answer. What I can say is my opinions are not cast in stone and if I were to change my mind on any issue I would vote accordingly.
The one thing I didn’t consider 3 years ago was Northern Ireland and I think the hard boarder issue may swing votes to remain. I’m nore worried about the derailment of the peace process than having to pay more to fly to Europe.
Vitriol is a waste of energy and time. If leavers and remainers had worked together towards the best deal possible instead of name calling then leave may have worked or been acceptable to everyone. . As it is everyone has been fighting over a question that’s been answered and 3 years have been wasted. 3 years and god knows how much money. The sad thing is that if this shambles has taught us anything, it's that the prospect of us 'taking back control' and being responsible for making our own decisions is fairly terrifying. While there certainly seem to be plenty of people who voted Leave who would now choose to Remain, there also seem to be many people who initially voted Remain but now feel strongly that we should respect the result of the first vote and Leave at any cost. I can certainly understand that position, although I don't happen to share it. I know there are some in that boat on this forum - out of interest, if we *were* to hold a second referendum, would you vote to Remain again, or would you vote Leave this time in order to respect the initial outcome? I would say something slightly different to you! if this shambles has taught us anything about 'taking back control' and being responsible for making our own decisions. The current politicians in all parties are not capable. ‘If’ there was another referendum I would vote according to which option I thought was the right one. It doesn’t directly answer your question it’s not an easy question to answer. What I can say is my opinions are not cast in stone and if I were to change my mind on any issue I would vote accordingly. The one thing I didn’t consider 3 years ago was Northern Ireland and I think the hard boarder issue may swing votes to remain. I’m nore worried about the derailment of the peace process than having to pay more to fly to Europe. |
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Deleted
🗨️ 0
👍🏻
January 1970
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Brexit
Mar 26, 2019 18:08:44 GMT 1
Brexit, by Deleted on Mar 26, 2019 18:08:44 GMT 1, There is a lot of talk about a second referendum but all the polls only put Remain ahead by a few percent. It's still nearly half the population that want to leave the EU. It's not like 80/20 or 70/30. Most people haven't changed their minds.
If it happens to be pissing down with rain on referendum day, I wouldn't be all that surprised if Leave wins for a second time. And then what happens?
There is a lot of talk about a second referendum but all the polls only put Remain ahead by a few percent. It's still nearly half the population that want to leave the EU. It's not like 80/20 or 70/30. Most people haven't changed their minds.
If it happens to be pissing down with rain on referendum day, I wouldn't be all that surprised if Leave wins for a second time. And then what happens?
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Brexit
Mar 26, 2019 18:10:41 GMT 1
Brexit, by Happy Shopper on Mar 26, 2019 18:10:41 GMT 1, ...would you vote Leave this time in order to respect the initial outcome?
I've no idea how anyone can respect a result that was won with lies... and won so narrowly.
And even if they weren't lies, then they've at least been proven to be wrong (Not an easy negotiation. We won't be better off. No millions for NHS. Companies have already started leaving. EU immigrants don't harm the economy or jobs. Ireland border is a huge issue).
I'm more confused by leave voters still voting leave, after all we've seen and heard!!
...would you vote Leave this time in order to respect the initial outcome? I've no idea how anyone can respect a result that was won with lies... and won so narrowly. And even if they weren't lies, then they've at least been proven to be wrong (Not an easy negotiation. We won't be better off. No millions for NHS. Companies have already started leaving. EU immigrants don't harm the economy or jobs. Ireland border is a huge issue). I'm more confused by leave voters still voting leave, after all we've seen and heard!! |
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Deleted
🗨️ 0
👍🏻
January 1970
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Brexit
Mar 26, 2019 18:18:08 GMT 1
Brexit, by Deleted on Mar 26, 2019 18:18:08 GMT 1, ...would you vote Leave this time in order to respect the initial outcome? I've no idea how anyone can respect a result that was won with lies... and won so narrowly. And even if they weren't lies, then they've at least been proven to be wrong (Not an easy negotiation. We won't be better off. No millions for NHS. Companies have already started leaving. EU immigrants don't harm the economy or jobs. Ireland border is a huge issue). I'm more confused by leave voters still voting leave, after all we've seen and heard!!
better off. They voted Leave because they wanted to "take back control". They don't like being governed by EU rules and if that makes them poorer then so be it. The referendum was about emotion, not about facts and financial predictions.
...would you vote Leave this time in order to respect the initial outcome? I've no idea how anyone can respect a result that was won with lies... and won so narrowly. And even if they weren't lies, then they've at least been proven to be wrong (Not an easy negotiation. We won't be better off. No millions for NHS. Companies have already started leaving. EU immigrants don't harm the economy or jobs. Ireland border is a huge issue). I'm more confused by leave voters still voting leave, after all we've seen and heard!! I think this highlights the misconception of Leave voters. People didn't vote Leave because they wanted to be better off. They voted Leave because they wanted to "take back control". They don't like being governed by EU rules and if that makes them poorer then so be it. The referendum was about emotion, not about facts and financial predictions. |
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Brexit
Mar 26, 2019 18:24:10 GMT 1
Brexit, by Happy Shopper on Mar 26, 2019 18:24:10 GMT 1, I've no idea how anyone can respect a result that was won with lies... and won so narrowly. And even if they weren't lies, then they've at least been proven to be wrong (Not an easy negotiation. We won't be better off. No millions for NHS. Companies have already started leaving. EU immigrants don't harm the economy or jobs. Ireland border is a huge issue). I'm more confused by leave voters still voting leave, after all we've seen and heard!! I think this highlights the misconception of Leave voters. People didn't vote Leave because they wanted to be better off. They voted Leave because they wanted to "take back control". They don't like being governed by EU rules and if that makes them poorer then so be it. The referendum was about emotion, not about facts and financial predictions.
This is a good point too. What rules would we not have taken on our own, or that the UK can now change back? There aren't any.
The UK currently has a veto on anything we don't like... BUT we won't have now, customs deal or not. We'll have to obey EU rules if we want to trade with them.
The leave arguments were certainly not concerned with facts! 
I've no idea how anyone can respect a result that was won with lies... and won so narrowly. And even if they weren't lies, then they've at least been proven to be wrong (Not an easy negotiation. We won't be better off. No millions for NHS. Companies have already started leaving. EU immigrants don't harm the economy or jobs. Ireland border is a huge issue). I'm more confused by leave voters still voting leave, after all we've seen and heard!! I think this highlights the misconception of Leave voters. People didn't vote Leave because they wanted to be better off. They voted Leave because they wanted to "take back control". They don't like being governed by EU rules and if that makes them poorer then so be it. The referendum was about emotion, not about facts and financial predictions. This is a good point too. What rules would we not have taken on our own, or that the UK can now change back? There aren't any. The UK currently has a veto on anything we don't like... BUT we won't have now, customs deal or not. We'll have to obey EU rules if we want to trade with them. The leave arguments were certainly not concerned with facts! |
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vei
Junior Member
🗨️ 1,830
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February 2013
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Brexit
Mar 26, 2019 18:32:52 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by vei on Mar 26, 2019 18:32:52 GMT 1, I think this highlights the misconception of Leave voters. People didn't vote Leave because they wanted to be better off. They voted Leave because they wanted to "take back control". They don't like being governed by EU rules and if that makes them poorer then so be it. The referendum was about emotion, not about facts and financial predictions. This is a good point too. What rules would we not have taken on our own, or that the UK can now change back? There aren't any. The UK currently has a veto on anything we don't like... BUT we won't have now, customs deal or not. We'll have to obey EU rules if we want to trade with them. The leave arguments were certainly not concerned with facts!
That’s not entirely true, the UK can veto some decisions but not all.
It does prove that both the leave and remain camps do not fully understand the complexity of the GB/Europe relationship.
I think this highlights the misconception of Leave voters. People didn't vote Leave because they wanted to be better off. They voted Leave because they wanted to "take back control". They don't like being governed by EU rules and if that makes them poorer then so be it. The referendum was about emotion, not about facts and financial predictions. This is a good point too. What rules would we not have taken on our own, or that the UK can now change back? There aren't any. The UK currently has a veto on anything we don't like... BUT we won't have now, customs deal or not. We'll have to obey EU rules if we want to trade with them. The leave arguments were certainly not concerned with facts! That’s not entirely true, the UK can veto some decisions but not all. It does prove that both the leave and remain camps do not fully understand the complexity of the GB/Europe relationship. |
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Brexit
Mar 26, 2019 18:50:38 GMT 1
Brexit, by Happy Shopper on Mar 26, 2019 18:50:38 GMT 1, This is a good point too. What rules would we not have taken on our own, or that the UK can now change back? There aren't any. The UK currently has a veto on anything we don't like... BUT we won't have now, customs deal or not. We'll have to obey EU rules if we want to trade with them. The leave arguments were certainly not concerned with facts! That’s not entirely true, the UK can veto some decisions but not all. It does prove that both the leave and remain camps do not fully understand the complexity of the GB/Europe relationship.
Still, any rules we'd have changed?
This is a good point too. What rules would we not have taken on our own, or that the UK can now change back? There aren't any. The UK currently has a veto on anything we don't like... BUT we won't have now, customs deal or not. We'll have to obey EU rules if we want to trade with them. The leave arguments were certainly not concerned with facts! That’s not entirely true, the UK can veto some decisions but not all. It does prove that both the leave and remain camps do not fully understand the complexity of the GB/Europe relationship. Still, any rules we'd have changed? |
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vei
Junior Member
🗨️ 1,830
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February 2013
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Brexit
Mar 26, 2019 18:58:31 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by vei on Mar 26, 2019 18:58:31 GMT 1, That’s not entirely true, the UK can veto some decisions but not all. It does prove that both the leave and remain camps do not fully understand the complexity of the GB/Europe relationship. Still, any rules we'd have changed?
I’m not sure what you’re asking or saying.
That’s not entirely true, the UK can veto some decisions but not all. It does prove that both the leave and remain camps do not fully understand the complexity of the GB/Europe relationship. Still, any rules we'd have changed? I’m not sure what you’re asking or saying. |
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Leo Boyd
Artist
Junior Member
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👍🏻 2,090
June 2016
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Brexit
Mar 26, 2019 19:01:21 GMT 1
Brexit, by Leo Boyd on Mar 26, 2019 19:01:21 GMT 1, I don't think that I have posted this before but it is pretty interesting and well grounded.
I don't think that I have posted this before but it is pretty interesting and well grounded.
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Matt
Junior Member
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September 2014
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Brexit
Mar 26, 2019 19:02:44 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by Matt on Mar 26, 2019 19:02:44 GMT 1, That’s not entirely true, the UK can veto some decisions but not all. It does prove that both the leave and remain camps do not fully understand the complexity of the GB/Europe relationship. Still, any rules we'd have changed?
The UK voted against EU law proposals 2%!of the time since 1999, so it doesn’t look like they wanted to change much...
So much for “taking back control” when you agreed 98% of the time (actually 95% and 3% of the time UK abstained)
That’s not entirely true, the UK can veto some decisions but not all. It does prove that both the leave and remain camps do not fully understand the complexity of the GB/Europe relationship. Still, any rules we'd have changed? The UK voted against EU law proposals 2%!of the time since 1999, so it doesn’t look like they wanted to change much... So much for “taking back control” when you agreed 98% of the time (actually 95% and 3% of the time UK abstained) |
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Brexit
Mar 26, 2019 19:08:53 GMT 1
Brexit, by Happy Shopper on Mar 26, 2019 19:08:53 GMT 1, Still, any rules we'd have changed? I’m not sure what you’re asking or saying.
Are there any EU rules/laws that were forced on us that are so bad that we'll now change back, now we're free?
I was just reading an article that said we've lost around 2% off all voting in the EU parliament... so I'm sure there's some things we obviously didn't want to do... but is there anything that we'll now change back?
I heard a UKIP guy being asked the same on the radio, and remember he couldn't name anything... apparently it was just the principle 
Still, any rules we'd have changed? I’m not sure what you’re asking or saying. Are there any EU rules/laws that were forced on us that are so bad that we'll now change back, now we're free? I was just reading an article that said we've lost around 2% off all voting in the EU parliament... so I'm sure there's some things we obviously didn't want to do... but is there anything that we'll now change back? I heard a UKIP guy being asked the same on the radio, and remember he couldn't name anything... apparently it was just the principle |
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vei
Junior Member
🗨️ 1,830
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February 2013
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Brexit
Mar 26, 2019 19:31:46 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by vei on Mar 26, 2019 19:31:46 GMT 1, I’m not sure what you’re asking or saying. Are there any EU rules/laws that were forced on us that are so bad that we'll now change back, now we're free? I was just reading an article that said we've lost around 2% off all voting in the EU parliament... so I'm sure there's some things we obviously didn't want to do... but is there anything that we'll now change back? I heard a UKIP guy being asked the same on the radio, and remember he couldn't name anything... apparently it was just the principle
That’s a question that requires some serious knowledge on GB/EU political History to answer.
it feels like a trick question, it’s not something that the average Jane or Joe Bloggs would be able to answer, whichever camp they were in.
I’m not defending UKIP but I think if you asked most MPs they’d not be able to answer.
Which article were you reading?
I’m not sure what you’re asking or saying. Are there any EU rules/laws that were forced on us that are so bad that we'll now change back, now we're free? I was just reading an article that said we've lost around 2% off all voting in the EU parliament... so I'm sure there's some things we obviously didn't want to do... but is there anything that we'll now change back? I heard a UKIP guy being asked the same on the radio, and remember he couldn't name anything... apparently it was just the principle That’s a question that requires some serious knowledge on GB/EU political History to answer. it feels like a trick question, it’s not something that the average Jane or Joe Bloggs would be able to answer, whichever camp they were in. I’m not defending UKIP but I think if you asked most MPs they’d not be able to answer. Which article were you reading? |
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Brexit
Mar 26, 2019 20:34:45 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by Happy Shopper on Mar 26, 2019 20:34:45 GMT 1, Are there any EU rules/laws that were forced on us that are so bad that we'll now change back, now we're free? I was just reading an article that said we've lost around 2% off all voting in the EU parliament... so I'm sure there's some things we obviously didn't want to do... but is there anything that we'll now change back? I heard a UKIP guy being asked the same on the radio, and remember he couldn't name anything... apparently it was just the principle That’s a question that requires some serious knowledge on GB/EU political History to answer. it feels like a trick question, it’s not something that the average Jane or Joe Bloggs would be able to answer, whichever camp they were in. I’m not defending UKIP but I think if you asked most MPs they’d not be able to answer. Which article were you reading?
At the point where you’re on the radio to specifically talk about “taking back control” you’d think the UKIP guy would have an answer though, or someone at some point in the last 2 years!?
The article was actually a fact checker site on Brexit claims. Don’t have the link right now.
Are there any EU rules/laws that were forced on us that are so bad that we'll now change back, now we're free? I was just reading an article that said we've lost around 2% off all voting in the EU parliament... so I'm sure there's some things we obviously didn't want to do... but is there anything that we'll now change back? I heard a UKIP guy being asked the same on the radio, and remember he couldn't name anything... apparently it was just the principle That’s a question that requires some serious knowledge on GB/EU political History to answer. it feels like a trick question, it’s not something that the average Jane or Joe Bloggs would be able to answer, whichever camp they were in. I’m not defending UKIP but I think if you asked most MPs they’d not be able to answer. Which article were you reading? At the point where you’re on the radio to specifically talk about “taking back control” you’d think the UKIP guy would have an answer though, or someone at some point in the last 2 years!? The article was actually a fact checker site on Brexit claims. Don’t have the link right now. |
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Brexit
Mar 26, 2019 20:37:01 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by Happy Shopper on Mar 26, 2019 20:37:01 GMT 1, Are there any EU rules/laws that were forced on us that are so bad that we'll now change back, now we're free? I was just reading an article that said we've lost around 2% off all voting in the EU parliament... so I'm sure there's some things we obviously didn't want to do... but is there anything that we'll now change back? I heard a UKIP guy being asked the same on the radio, and remember he couldn't name anything... apparently it was just the principle Proper light bulbs
😅 Probably about the sum of it... and something about bananas.
Are there any EU rules/laws that were forced on us that are so bad that we'll now change back, now we're free? I was just reading an article that said we've lost around 2% off all voting in the EU parliament... so I'm sure there's some things we obviously didn't want to do... but is there anything that we'll now change back? I heard a UKIP guy being asked the same on the radio, and remember he couldn't name anything... apparently it was just the principle Proper light bulbs 😅 Probably about the sum of it... and something about bananas. |
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vei
Junior Member
🗨️ 1,830
👍🏻 975
February 2013
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Brexit
Mar 26, 2019 21:50:43 GMT 1
Brexit, by vei on Mar 26, 2019 21:50:43 GMT 1, That’s a question that requires some serious knowledge on GB/EU political History to answer. it feels like a trick question, it’s not something that the average Jane or Joe Bloggs would be able to answer, whichever camp they were in. I’m not defending UKIP but I think if you asked most MPs they’d not be able to answer. Which article were you reading? At the point where you’re on the radio to specifically talk about “taking back control” you’d think the UKIP guy would have an answer though, or someone at some point in the last 2 years!? The article was actually a fact checker site on Brexit claims. Don’t have the link right now.
I'm slowly being drawn in to a conversation I was said was the wrong conversation. The votes have been counted and wrong or right change is coming and we had 3 years to negotiate and prepare. But the time was spent fighting over a question that's already been answered, not focusing on what needed to be done.
That’s a question that requires some serious knowledge on GB/EU political History to answer. it feels like a trick question, it’s not something that the average Jane or Joe Bloggs would be able to answer, whichever camp they were in. I’m not defending UKIP but I think if you asked most MPs they’d not be able to answer. Which article were you reading? At the point where you’re on the radio to specifically talk about “taking back control” you’d think the UKIP guy would have an answer though, or someone at some point in the last 2 years!? The article was actually a fact checker site on Brexit claims. Don’t have the link right now. Everyones been tripped up and not been able to answer a question you would have expected them to answer. For example you were tripped up and not able to give an answer the question what article were you reading, even though you said 'I was just reading'. I'm slowly being drawn in to a conversation I was said was the wrong conversation. The votes have been counted and wrong or right change is coming and we had 3 years to negotiate and prepare. But the time was spent fighting over a question that's already been answered, not focusing on what needed to be done. |
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Brexit
Mar 26, 2019 21:58:24 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by Happy Shopper on Mar 26, 2019 21:58:24 GMT 1, At the point where you’re on the radio to specifically talk about “taking back control” you’d think the UKIP guy would have an answer though, or someone at some point in the last 2 years!? The article was actually a fact checker site on Brexit claims. Don’t have the link right now. Everyones been tripped up and not been able to answer a question you would have expected them to answer. For example you were tripped up and not able to give an answer the question what article were you reading, even though you said 'I was just reading'. I'm slowly being drawn in to a conversation I was said was the wrong conversation. The votes have been counted and wrong or right change is coming and we had 3 years to negotiate and prepare. But the time was spent fighting over a question that's already been answered, not focusing on what needed to be done.
You seem to be missing the point. Campaigning on “taking back control”, as a nice headline, without having anything you can actually say you’d change seems to be deceiving the public to me.
At the point where you’re on the radio to specifically talk about “taking back control” you’d think the UKIP guy would have an answer though, or someone at some point in the last 2 years!? The article was actually a fact checker site on Brexit claims. Don’t have the link right now. Everyones been tripped up and not been able to answer a question you would have expected them to answer. For example you were tripped up and not able to give an answer the question what article were you reading, even though you said 'I was just reading'. I'm slowly being drawn in to a conversation I was said was the wrong conversation. The votes have been counted and wrong or right change is coming and we had 3 years to negotiate and prepare. But the time was spent fighting over a question that's already been answered, not focusing on what needed to be done. You seem to be missing the point. Campaigning on “taking back control”, as a nice headline, without having anything you can actually say you’d change seems to be deceiving the public to me. |
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vei
Junior Member
🗨️ 1,830
👍🏻 975
February 2013
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Brexit
Mar 26, 2019 22:10:52 GMT 1
Brexit, by vei on Mar 26, 2019 22:10:52 GMT 1, Everyones been tripped up and not been able to answer a question you would have expected them to answer. For example you were tripped up and not able to give an answer the question what article were you reading, even though you said 'I was just reading'. I'm slowly being drawn in to a conversation I was said was the wrong conversation. The votes have been counted and wrong or right change is coming and we had 3 years to negotiate and prepare. But the time was spent fighting over a question that's already been answered, not focusing on what needed to be done. You seem to be missing the point. Campaigning on “taking back control”, as a nice headline, without having anything you can actually say you’d change seems to be deceiving the public to me.
Politicians deceiving the public........................................... we both know that is like death and taxes.
Everyones been tripped up and not been able to answer a question you would have expected them to answer. For example you were tripped up and not able to give an answer the question what article were you reading, even though you said 'I was just reading'. I'm slowly being drawn in to a conversation I was said was the wrong conversation. The votes have been counted and wrong or right change is coming and we had 3 years to negotiate and prepare. But the time was spent fighting over a question that's already been answered, not focusing on what needed to be done. You seem to be missing the point. Campaigning on “taking back control”, as a nice headline, without having anything you can actually say you’d change seems to be deceiving the public to me. I don't think i'm missing the point, I've addressed your points and made another apposing point. Every party has had as senior politicians who has not been able to answer questions it was their job to answer. Dianne Abbot springs to mind instantly. Politicians deceiving the public........................................... we both know that is like death and taxes. |
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vei
Junior Member
🗨️ 1,830
👍🏻 975
February 2013
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Brexit
Mar 26, 2019 22:27:06 GMT 1
Brexit, by vei on Mar 26, 2019 22:27:06 GMT 1, Everyones been tripped up and not been able to answer a question you would have expected them to answer. For example you were tripped up and not able to give an answer the question what article were you reading, even though you said 'I was just reading'. I'm slowly being drawn in to a conversation I was said was the wrong conversation. The votes have been counted and wrong or right change is coming and we had 3 years to negotiate and prepare. But the time was spent fighting over a question that's already been answered, not focusing on what needed to be done. "We had 3 years to negotiate and prepare".
Are you a Conservative minister, vei ?
If not, then who exactly is/are the 'we' you speak of?
Everyones been tripped up and not been able to answer a question you would have expected them to answer. For example you were tripped up and not able to give an answer the question what article were you reading, even though you said 'I was just reading'. I'm slowly being drawn in to a conversation I was said was the wrong conversation. The votes have been counted and wrong or right change is coming and we had 3 years to negotiate and prepare. But the time was spent fighting over a question that's already been answered, not focusing on what needed to be done. "We had 3 years to negotiate and prepare".
Are you a Conservative minister, vei ?
If not, then who exactly is/are the 'we' you speak of?
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Brexit
Mar 26, 2019 22:34:32 GMT 1
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Brexit, by Schrödinger's Chat on Mar 26, 2019 22:34:32 GMT 1, At 10pm there is The Road to Brexit with Matt Berry, promises to be a light hearted look at the whole Brexit shebang, lampooning all sides of the debate, so we can all feel aggrieved by his mickey taking.
At 10pm there is The Road to Brexit with Matt Berry, promises to be a light hearted look at the whole Brexit shebang, lampooning all sides of the debate, so we can all feel aggrieved by his mickey taking.
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Brexit
Mar 26, 2019 23:52:13 GMT 1
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Brexit, by Daylight Robber on Mar 26, 2019 23:52:13 GMT 1, Are there any EU rules/laws that were forced on us that are so bad that we'll now change back, now we're free? I was just reading an article that said we've lost around 2% off all voting in the EU parliament... so I'm sure there's some things we obviously didn't want to do... but is there anything that we'll now change back? I heard a UKIP guy being asked the same on the radio, and remember he couldn't name anything... apparently it was just the principle That’s a question that requires some serious knowledge on GB/EU political History to answer. it feels like a trick question, it’s not something that the average Jane or Joe Bloggs would be able to answer, whichever camp they were in. I’m not defending UKIP but I think if you asked most MPs they’d not be able to answer. Which article were you reading?
Here you go.....
www.theneweuropean.co.uk/culture/twitter-user-jim-grace-thread-on-eu-law-1-5862438
Makes quite cringe worthy reading when you look at the rules 'forced' on the UK. Not sure why anyone with any sense would object to them let alone try and reverse them.
Are there any EU rules/laws that were forced on us that are so bad that we'll now change back, now we're free? I was just reading an article that said we've lost around 2% off all voting in the EU parliament... so I'm sure there's some things we obviously didn't want to do... but is there anything that we'll now change back? I heard a UKIP guy being asked the same on the radio, and remember he couldn't name anything... apparently it was just the principle That’s a question that requires some serious knowledge on GB/EU political History to answer. it feels like a trick question, it’s not something that the average Jane or Joe Bloggs would be able to answer, whichever camp they were in. I’m not defending UKIP but I think if you asked most MPs they’d not be able to answer. Which article were you reading? Here you go..... www.theneweuropean.co.uk/culture/twitter-user-jim-grace-thread-on-eu-law-1-5862438Makes quite cringe worthy reading when you look at the rules 'forced' on the UK. Not sure why anyone with any sense would object to them let alone try and reverse them. |
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Brexit
Mar 27, 2019 0:48:49 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by Happy Shopper on Mar 27, 2019 0:48:49 GMT 1, You seem to be missing the point. Campaigning on “taking back control”, as a nice headline, without having anything you can actually say you’d change seems to be deceiving the public to me. I don't think i'm missing the point, I've addressed your points and made another apposing point. Every party has had as senior politicians who has not been able to answer questions it was their job to answer. Dianne Abbot springs to mind instantly. Politicians deceiving the public........................................... we both know that is like death and taxes.
Asking another question is not answering the question.
We can easily find out what rules the EU have enforced on us. But no politician can ever name any they’d change.
So what are we “taking back control” of exactly?
You seem to be missing the point. Campaigning on “taking back control”, as a nice headline, without having anything you can actually say you’d change seems to be deceiving the public to me. I don't think i'm missing the point, I've addressed your points and made another apposing point. Every party has had as senior politicians who has not been able to answer questions it was their job to answer. Dianne Abbot springs to mind instantly. Politicians deceiving the public........................................... we both know that is like death and taxes. Asking another question is not answering the question. We can easily find out what rules the EU have enforced on us. But no politician can ever name any they’d change. So what are we “taking back control” of exactly? |
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nex
Junior Member
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Brexit
Mar 27, 2019 1:11:03 GMT 1
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Brexit, by nex on Mar 27, 2019 1:11:03 GMT 1, Had to laugh at rees mogg talking about accepting Mays deal... which literally gives us less control 🤦♂️
Had to laugh at rees mogg talking about accepting Mays deal... which literally gives us less control 🤦♂️
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vei
Junior Member
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Brexit
Mar 27, 2019 8:51:55 GMT 1
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Brexit, by vei on Mar 27, 2019 8:51:55 GMT 1, That’s a question that requires some serious knowledge on GB/EU political History to answer. it feels like a trick question, it’s not something that the average Jane or Joe Bloggs would be able to answer, whichever camp they were in. I’m not defending UKIP but I think if you asked most MPs they’d not be able to answer. Which article were you reading? Here you go..... www.theneweuropean.co.uk/culture/twitter-user-jim-grace-thread-on-eu-law-1-5862438Makes quite cringe worthy reading when you look at the rules 'forced' on the UK. Not sure why anyone with any sense would object to them let alone try and reverse them.
Hi daylightrobber how do you know which article happyshopper was reading?
That’s a question that requires some serious knowledge on GB/EU political History to answer. it feels like a trick question, it’s not something that the average Jane or Joe Bloggs would be able to answer, whichever camp they were in. I’m not defending UKIP but I think if you asked most MPs they’d not be able to answer. Which article were you reading? Here you go..... www.theneweuropean.co.uk/culture/twitter-user-jim-grace-thread-on-eu-law-1-5862438Makes quite cringe worthy reading when you look at the rules 'forced' on the UK. Not sure why anyone with any sense would object to them let alone try and reverse them. Hi daylightrobber how do you know which article happyshopper was reading? |
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Chris JL
Junior Member
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Brexit, by Chris JL on Mar 27, 2019 9:00:09 GMT 1, though I would prefer to remain in the EU, I don't have much faith in these petitions. Why would the government take any notice of this? They go by election results not opinion polls. 5 million is a drop in the ocean I'm afraid. Even if it got to 10 million signatures that's still an irrelevant number considering the UK population is about 65 million. They already know there are millions of people who want to remain in the EU. This isn't telling them anything they don't already know.
Wrong math. UK’s population eligible to vote is 46-47 millions. And the voters’ turnout in the last 30 years has been fluctuating around 75% (and much less in recent years).
The almost 6 million signatures imply that about 17-18% of the voting population bothered to undertake the steps necessary to sign this petition. I.e. it’s an unheard-of seismic wave in electoral terms - the type of stuff that should shape the democratic discourse.
though I would prefer to remain in the EU, I don't have much faith in these petitions. Why would the government take any notice of this? They go by election results not opinion polls. 5 million is a drop in the ocean I'm afraid. Even if it got to 10 million signatures that's still an irrelevant number considering the UK population is about 65 million. They already know there are millions of people who want to remain in the EU. This isn't telling them anything they don't already know. Wrong math. UK’s population eligible to vote is 46-47 millions. And the voters’ turnout in the last 30 years has been fluctuating around 75% (and much less in recent years). The almost 6 million signatures imply that about 17-18% of the voting population bothered to undertake the steps necessary to sign this petition. I.e. it’s an unheard-of seismic wave in electoral terms - the type of stuff that should shape the democratic discourse. |
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vei
Junior Member
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February 2013
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Brexit
Mar 27, 2019 9:26:45 GMT 1
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Brexit, by vei on Mar 27, 2019 9:26:45 GMT 1, I don't think i'm missing the point, I've addressed your points and made another apposing point. Every party has had as senior politicians who has not been able to answer questions it was their job to answer. Dianne Abbot springs to mind instantly. Politicians deceiving the public........................................... we both know that is like death and taxes. Asking another question is not answering the question. We can easily find out what rules the EU have enforced on us. But no politician can ever name any they’d change. So what are we “taking back control” of exactly?
I think this is getting confused now, the only question I asked was what article did you ‘just’ read, not asked to answer a question.
You said that UKIP talked about “taking back control” you need to ask them that question for an answer, I never said it.
I just said the UK could veto some decisions not all, it was a correction of what you originally posted, the UK could veto anything it didn’t like.
I don't think i'm missing the point, I've addressed your points and made another apposing point. Every party has had as senior politicians who has not been able to answer questions it was their job to answer. Dianne Abbot springs to mind instantly. Politicians deceiving the public........................................... we both know that is like death and taxes. Asking another question is not answering the question. We can easily find out what rules the EU have enforced on us. But no politician can ever name any they’d change. So what are we “taking back control” of exactly? I think this is getting confused now, the only question I asked was what article did you ‘just’ read, not asked to answer a question. You said that UKIP talked about “taking back control” you need to ask them that question for an answer, I never said it. I just said the UK could veto some decisions not all, it was a correction of what you originally posted, the UK could veto anything it didn’t like. |
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Brexit
Mar 27, 2019 9:55:32 GMT 1
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Brexit, by Daylight Robber on Mar 27, 2019 9:55:32 GMT 1, Hi daylightrobber how do you know which article happyshopper was reading?
I didn't. But this one, originating on Twitter has been published all over due to it being quite a comprehensive put down of the 'taking back control of our laws' argument.
Hi daylightrobber how do you know which article happyshopper was reading? I didn't. But this one, originating on Twitter has been published all over due to it being quite a comprehensive put down of the 'taking back control of our laws' argument. |
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Brexit
Mar 27, 2019 11:18:27 GMT 1
Brexit, by Happy Shopper on Mar 27, 2019 11:18:27 GMT 1, Asking another question is not answering the question. We can easily find out what rules the EU have enforced on us. But no politician can ever name any they’d change. So what are we “taking back control” of exactly? I think this is getting confused now, the only question I asked was what article did you ‘just’ read, not asked to answer a question.
This one... not that it matters to the point in any way!
fullfact.org/europe/eu-facts-behind-claims-uk-influence/?utm_source=content_page&utm_medium=related_content
And you're replying to a question I posed to someone else actually, who said Leave voters mostly voted to take back control of EU rules... so not surprised you don't have the answer... especially as my point is that there isn't an answer. "Taking back control of our laws" is an exciting sounding headline, but a lie.
Asking another question is not answering the question. We can easily find out what rules the EU have enforced on us. But no politician can ever name any they’d change. So what are we “taking back control” of exactly? I think this is getting confused now, the only question I asked was what article did you ‘just’ read, not asked to answer a question. This one... not that it matters to the point in any way! fullfact.org/europe/eu-facts-behind-claims-uk-influence/?utm_source=content_page&utm_medium=related_contentAnd you're replying to a question I posed to someone else actually, who said Leave voters mostly voted to take back control of EU rules... so not surprised you don't have the answer... especially as my point is that there isn't an answer. "Taking back control of our laws" is an exciting sounding headline, but a lie. |
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Brexit
Mar 27, 2019 12:12:01 GMT 1
Brexit, by Deleted on Mar 27, 2019 12:12:01 GMT 1, Everyones been tripped up and not been able to answer a question you would have expected them to answer. For example you were tripped up and not able to give an answer the question what article were you reading, even though you said 'I was just reading'. I'm slowly being drawn in to a conversation I was said was the wrong conversation. The votes have been counted and wrong or right change is coming and we had 3 years to negotiate and prepare. But the time was spent fighting over a question that's already been answered, not focusing on what needed to be done. You seem to be missing the point. Campaigning on “taking back control”, as a nice headline, without having anything you can actually say you’d change seems to be deceiving the public to me.
Everyones been tripped up and not been able to answer a question you would have expected them to answer. For example you were tripped up and not able to give an answer the question what article were you reading, even though you said 'I was just reading'. I'm slowly being drawn in to a conversation I was said was the wrong conversation. The votes have been counted and wrong or right change is coming and we had 3 years to negotiate and prepare. But the time was spent fighting over a question that's already been answered, not focusing on what needed to be done. You seem to be missing the point. Campaigning on “taking back control”, as a nice headline, without having anything you can actually say you’d change seems to be deceiving the public to me. I don't think it is quite fair to say they are "deceiving the public". Leaving the EU means we are no longer subject to EU rules and regulations. That sounds like taking back control to me...except we are still subject to WTO rules. But even if we decide to keep the same rules as the EU that is still us taking back control. It is us controlling the rules. |
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Brexit
Mar 27, 2019 12:19:45 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by Happy Shopper on Mar 27, 2019 12:19:45 GMT 1, You seem to be missing the point. Campaigning on “taking back control”, as a nice headline, without having anything you can actually say you’d change seems to be deceiving the public to me. I don't think it is quite fair to say they are "deceiving the public". Leaving the EU means we are no longer subject to EU rules and regulations. That sounds like taking back control to me...except we are still subject to WTO rules. But even if we decide to keep the same rules as the EU that is still us taking back control. It is us controlling the rules.
Rules that we’ve hardly ever had any issue with... worth the turmoil?
You seem to be missing the point. Campaigning on “taking back control”, as a nice headline, without having anything you can actually say you’d change seems to be deceiving the public to me. I don't think it is quite fair to say they are "deceiving the public". Leaving the EU means we are no longer subject to EU rules and regulations. That sounds like taking back control to me...except we are still subject to WTO rules. But even if we decide to keep the same rules as the EU that is still us taking back control. It is us controlling the rules. Rules that we’ve hardly ever had any issue with... worth the turmoil? |
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