Im going to call this new version, the "snowglobe plan". She shook the hell out of the whole thing, with no idea whatsoever where all the flakes will land and is going to see what happens.

She placated the second ref people off with a "there there, piss off"

Yet again May comes forward with a plan that's as popular as a fart in a lift. 😵

She's nothing if not consistent.

piie.com/blogs/realtime-economic-issues-watch/brexit-bad-terminal

Some light sobering reading.

Has your view that we should Leave to honour the first vote softened slightly?

Sadly I agree with you here. As far as I can see, the only way to counteract what seems to be a large vote for Farage’s clusterf**kwould be for the remain-leaning candidates to receive a similar share of the vote to balance the story a little.

Yes, I have 'softened' a little. If it wasn't for the rise of Faragism, I would abstain.  But the thought of the Brexit Party overtaking the EU parliament fills me with horror.  One Farage in Brussels is enough but a whole hoard of them is a nightmare come true - that is, if any of them actually bother to turn up for meetings etc.  If they are anything like Nigel Farage they will simply not turn up or when they do, they will simply hurl abuse at the other countries.   We need at least a few sensible people in the EU parliament. 

Agreed.

It's quite a thing when the MSM have portrayed Labour as fence sitters when they have so far put forward 4 motions to have a confirmatory vote. Add to that the fact that Corbyn has stated that whatever deal is put forward then the vote should be a straight choice between it and remaining. Cable on the other hand wants a 2nd referendum with a No Deal option!

I disagree. Because of the nature of our electoral system many people of the left have no option at general elections but to vote for the party most likely to beat the Tories in their constituency. The European elections allow a bit more freedom, and voters should use it. In this particular election it is important in my opinion to send a clear message on Brexit, and Labour doesn't have one of those. The idea that we should use this European election to show where we stand for the next general election seems bizarre to me, but even if that is what drives you, a vote for the Green Party would seem to be both a clear anti-Brexit statement and a clear anti-Tory one.

Besides, I think that Corbyn's leadership, because of his unpopularity (and the reasons for that are for another day), has become more of a barrier to the implementation of the kind of policies that he and his supporters supposedly espouse than a driver for it. I think that if he genuinely wants those policies to be implemented he should be manoeuvring to have himself replaced by a more voter-friendly face for them. Though it looks unlikely at present, yet another electoral kicking might hasten his departure.

I am torn regarding this ballot.
I have never voted anything other than labour in my (longer than most on here I suspect) life. I’ve never not voted.
I know that I will vote labour at the next general election.
But for this one, I am veering towards @markiemark’s position, and have been for some time.
I have been disappointed by labour’s handling of their position regarding Brexit (whilst accepting their position was that of an opposition party), though nowhere near as disappointed, or angry, as I am about the Tory’s handling of it.
I would, on this occasion, like my vote to count as a remain vote. I know many brexiteers will be voting such that their vote counts as a Brexit vote, and I would like my vote to go some way towards countering that.
But it will be with a very heavy heart, if I don’t put my X next to labour.
At present I am leaning towards LibDem (though I can’t forgive them for tuition fees).

There are a lot of factors and its a hard call at the moment for sure. But using EU elections really wont have any effect on brexit. Its in essence just a one issue protest vote in my eyes. That said, i can understand it too, brexit is a mass disaster. Further down the line though, the EU vote wont make any difference to who deals with brexit or even how. 

As it stands, we are already looking down the barrel of a boris the clown led tory government, the man who literally stood up in the first five minutes and utterly f*&ked up any hope of an easy negotiation, by saying "they can go whistle for their money". So if may does walk (seriously, why is she there now!), and the tory MP's dont jog him off (many dont want him apparently) and the tory electorate decide the fool that undermined negotiations from the start, is the man to take over, we are buggered. 

I just cant bring myself to throw the media another bone for when they ramp up their attacks in any GE that may come up. I also think this polling for the brexit party is going to massively overplayed. polling is dodgy anyway, but having realised that the yougov poll that gives them 35% had 2200 participants, i cant say i give it much weight if any. 

"But that is a protest vote that I feel compelled to make." right there! i get ya, i just cant. we are in the same park though :-) I cant do it, but i wouldnt blame you either, its all just a mess.


A lot of which i think is media based, including Corbyn maybe holding his cards a bit close, or the idea that he is. Muddying the waters is their weapon of choice. I really hope labour make a massive showing in the EU's, but i wont hold my breath. Would be nice to leave the media with nothing though. 

Then you possibly fail to realise they still hold the biggest audiences. 

It quite possible the tories and farage hate them for telling the truth about them from time to time. The left hate them for the lies they tell. 

Lazy to keep spouting off eh. Thats a bit of lazy thinking you were delving into there. 

The BBC pro Tory bias.....

Andrew Neil - Tory, misogynist and climate change denier. Once editor of the right-wing paper The Sunday Times. Hired a Holocaust denier and Nazi apologist to write on the discovery of Goebbels’ diaries. Directly involved with the Conservative party itself by once helping them to select a successor to Michael Portillo by personally hosting interviews. 


Robert Gibb, who used to be the Beeb’s political editor became Director for Communications to Theresa May. Also the brother of Tory Minister Nicholas Gibb. 

Nick Robinson (the BBC’s current political editor) used to be the chairman of the Young Conservatives.

Chris Patten (chairman of the BBC Trust) is a former Conservative cabinet minister.

John Humphries declared his bias on-air with a political programme ‘The Future of the Welfare State’. It was so right-wing that even the BBC Trust (which is chaired by a former Tory cabinet minister) admitted it was at fault. According to the Child Poverty Action Group, the RADIO PROGRAMME “failed the public by swallowing wholesale the evidence-free myth of a ‘dependency culture’ in which unemployment… is the fault of the unemployed”. By the BBC’s own admission, it failed to provide appropriate statistics that would have allowed its viewers to arrive at informed opinions.

Kamal Ahmed, who succeeded Robert Peston as the BBC’s political editor, formerly worked the Daily Telegraph.


and so on and so on..................

Then there's the anti-Corbyn bias. A slightly different kettle of fish, but designed to get the same result.

This study by the Media Reform Coalition and published by Birkbeck University will give you some idea of what Corbyn was up against during the challenges to his leadership a few years ago. Note the participation of the 'neutral' BBC


www.mediareform.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Corbynresearch.pdf

It is worth pointing out that *all* newspapers have a political bias; either to the right or the left. But their readership is dwindling at an incredible rate and they really don't influence things the way they used to. One of the good things about the internet is that everyone is now free to view the same story from many different angles on many different sites, if they so wish. The downside, of course, is that most people do not. They prefer to live within their own safe political echo chamber where everyone agrees with them.

OK, so i get it. You just dont understand how that impacts on your stupid comment, or even that i never made any comparison between papers, TV or radio since they are all MSM. Not to worry, keep trying to look smug about being a bit er, dappy.