kazzazz
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 322
๐๐ป 39
November 2010
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Backdoor Banksy Prints, by kazzazz on Aug 6, 2014 1:32:48 GMT 1, What is the difference between these and the versions West Country prince produces? Surely the quality is identical and once framed and displayed they are the same. Seems madness that people will spend hundreds if not thousands on something with no COA and no edition number....spend ยฃ50 and get a reproduction from WCP. and by the way, don't you think its madness that people are spending thousands if not tens of thousands on banksy prints that cost ยฃ150 originally? ย no, you don't, because there is an after market demand that creates a value for those prints. that same demand trickles down to the genuine but unlicensed prints, albeit at a lower value, because they also have a finite supply. ย add to that the lack of new prints, the lack of reselling of numbered prints and you start to see the reasoning behind this lower level market place. there will never be an after market demand for WCP prints, not for genuine collectors anyway.ย I hope that answers your question.
So basically if someone finds a printers to produce a great screen print 'copy' of these on the paper originally used and palm them off as 'backdoor' prints with obviously no COA because they don't issue one people will buy.
Seems crazy that many people trust other people and buy them.
And no I don't think buying a print for 150 that is now worth thousands is crazy....this is how it works with all collectable items in the world with high demand. But at least you have an official edition....rather than framing something you will actually never know is real but still forked out a lot of money for. I buy art because I like it not just because of worth or aftermarket.
I am not necessarily criticizing people for buying these as it's my own opinion but it does seem like we live in a very trusting world with 'backdoor' prints.
What is the difference between these and the versions West Country prince produces? Surely the quality is identical and once framed and displayed they are the same. Seems madness that people will spend hundreds if not thousands on something with no COA and no edition number....spend ยฃ50 and get a reproduction from WCP. and by the way, don't you think its madness that people are spending thousands if not tens of thousands on banksy prints that cost ยฃ150 originally? ย no, you don't, because there is an after market demand that creates a value for those prints. that same demand trickles down to the genuine but unlicensed prints, albeit at a lower value, because they also have a finite supply. ย add to that the lack of new prints, the lack of reselling of numbered prints and you start to see the reasoning behind this lower level market place. there will never be an after market demand for WCP prints, not for genuine collectors anyway.ย I hope that answers your question. So basically if someone finds a printers to produce a great screen print 'copy' of these on the paper originally used and palm them off as 'backdoor' prints with obviously no COA because they don't issue one people will buy. Seems crazy that many people trust other people and buy them. And no I don't think buying a print for 150 that is now worth thousands is crazy....this is how it works with all collectable items in the world with high demand. But at least you have an official edition....rather than framing something you will actually never know is real but still forked out a lot of money for. I buy art because I like it not just because of worth or aftermarket. I am not necessarily criticizing people for buying these as it's my own opinion but it does seem like we live in a very trusting world with 'backdoor' prints. |
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phage
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 171
๐๐ป 36
July 2013
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Backdoor Banksy Prints, by phage on Aug 6, 2014 21:54:52 GMT 1, I agree you should buy an image because you like it, but i can't believe that anyone, other than those with more money than sense, can buy Banksy prints anymore without caring about their worth.
And in answer to your comment about trusting people, not sure how long you have been collecting, but Banksy prints have been trading on the secondary market for as long without COA's as they have with them. Kinda blows that trust argument out of the water if you ask me.
I agree you should buy an image because you like it, but i can't believe that anyone, other than those with more money than sense, can buy Banksy prints anymore without caring about their worth.
And in answer to your comment about trusting people, not sure how long you have been collecting, but Banksy prints have been trading on the secondary market for as long without COA's as they have with them. Kinda blows that trust argument out of the water if you ask me.
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
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Backdoor Banksy Prints, by Deleted on Aug 7, 2014 4:50:58 GMT 1, Are there such thing as backdoor rats? Love or placard?
Any idea of a value and anyone have any?
Are there such thing as backdoor rats? Love or placard?
Any idea of a value and anyone have any?
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mouser
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,236
๐๐ป 1,148
April 2011
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Backdoor Banksy Prints, by mouser on Aug 7, 2014 5:43:34 GMT 1, Are there such thing as backdoor rats? Love or placard? Any idea of a value and anyone have any?
Are there such thing as backdoor rats? Love or placard? Any idea of a value and anyone have any? I have a gift rat, but not seen any backdoor rats, then again, not really been looking, quite sure someone could knock you up a genuine backdoor rat if you asked. |
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
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Backdoor Banksy Prints, by Deleted on Aug 7, 2014 5:52:13 GMT 1, I have a gift rat, but not seen any backdoor rats, then again, not really been looking, quite sure someone could knock you up a genuine backdoor rat if you asked.
Tell me its not as easy as approaching the printer and asking them to screen another. I like the hunt...
I have a gift rat, but not seen any backdoor rats, then again, not really been looking, quite sure someone could knock you up a genuine backdoor rat if you asked. Whats a Gift Rat? (I probably sound very green) Tell me its not as easy as approaching the printer and asking them to screen another. I like the hunt... |
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mouser
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,236
๐๐ป 1,148
April 2011
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Backdoor Banksy Prints, by mouser on Aug 7, 2014 6:12:44 GMT 1, I have a gift rat, but not seen any backdoor rats, then again, not really been looking, quite sure someone could knock you up a genuine backdoor rat if you asked. Whats a Gift Rat? (I probably sound very green) Tell me its not as easy as approaching the printer and asking them to screen another. I like the hunt...
I have a gift rat, but not seen any backdoor rats, then again, not really been looking, quite sure someone could knock you up a genuine backdoor rat if you asked. Whats a Gift Rat? (I probably sound very green) Tell me its not as easy as approaching the printer and asking them to screen another. I like the hunt... Its a signed , un- numbered print Banksy gave as a gift to someone..... Who then sold it on. It is just as easy as approaching the printer.... It just wont be the same printer who made the real thing.... No matter what they tell you, there is just as good a chance your "backdoor" print was knocked up last week.... If you dont have a genuine print to compare it to, how would you know it was any different, if you did have one to compare it to, why would you want one in the first place.... Save your money, buy a genuine article (with PC etc) if you really need to have a banksy in your life. Or roll the dice on paying a lot of cash for something that will never be verified as genuine....... |
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
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January 1970
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Backdoor Banksy Prints, by Deleted on Aug 7, 2014 6:58:57 GMT 1, unless you know your stuff and can compare, this is teh very risky business should one pop up
unless you know your stuff and can compare, this is teh very risky business should one pop up
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stylus
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 639
๐๐ป 16
August 2006
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Backdoor Banksy Prints, by stylus on Aug 7, 2014 7:41:12 GMT 1, Seen lots of backdoor prints from back in the day... But I've never come across backdoor rats. I don't know exactly when the cut-over to in-house printing was. There were certainly backdoor prints of other stuff from a similar era - I have Toxic Mary among others.
Not sure if anyone has tried compiling a list of all the prints with backdoor copies floating about. There are lots - but as someone mentioned, with no true provenance, you can't definitively differentiate between a backdoor print (same screen, same stock), and a facsimile/fake.
Seen lots of backdoor prints from back in the day... But I've never come across backdoor rats. I don't know exactly when the cut-over to in-house printing was. There were certainly backdoor prints of other stuff from a similar era - I have Toxic Mary among others.
Not sure if anyone has tried compiling a list of all the prints with backdoor copies floating about. There are lots - but as someone mentioned, with no true provenance, you can't definitively differentiate between a backdoor print (same screen, same stock), and a facsimile/fake.
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
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January 1970
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Backdoor Banksy Prints, by Deleted on Aug 7, 2014 7:47:23 GMT 1, Ive had 2 backdoor signed and numbered rats, one had been smudged the other was minumbered out of 175 like unsigned rather than 75 signed, discarded mistakes so no coa as not intended to be resold, source was bullet proof and i guess a handwriting expert could compare signatures so at least in this case theres something to go buy.
Ive had 2 backdoor signed and numbered rats, one had been smudged the other was minumbered out of 175 like unsigned rather than 75 signed, discarded mistakes so no coa as not intended to be resold, source was bullet proof and i guess a handwriting expert could compare signatures so at least in this case theres something to go buy.
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Dungle
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 4,008
๐๐ป 5,174
June 2011
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Backdoor Banksy Prints, by Dungle on Aug 7, 2014 11:30:49 GMT 1, Ive had 2 backdoor signed and numbered rats, one had been smudged the other was minumbered out of 175 like unsigned rather than 75 signed, discarded mistakes so no coa as not intended to be resold, source was bullet proof and i guess a handwriting expert could compare signatures so at least in this case theres something to go buy.
Interesting.
What sort of prices do they go for?
Ive had 2 backdoor signed and numbered rats, one had been smudged the other was minumbered out of 175 like unsigned rather than 75 signed, discarded mistakes so no coa as not intended to be resold, source was bullet proof and i guess a handwriting expert could compare signatures so at least in this case theres something to go buy. Interesting. What sort of prices do they go for? |
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Cornish Crayon
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 3,965
๐๐ป 2,902
December 2007
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Backdoor Banksy Prints, by Cornish Crayon on Aug 7, 2014 11:40:58 GMT 1, Would love to see the smudge Mr CG, is it a good decent one........
Why am I so curious to see this ? 
No worries if not
Would love to see the smudge Mr CG, is it a good decent one........ Why am I so curious to see this ? No worries if not |
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
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Backdoor Banksy Prints, by Deleted on Aug 7, 2014 12:32:21 GMT 1, Ive had 2 backdoor signed and numbered rats, one had been smudged the other was minumbered out of 175 like unsigned rather than 75 signed, discarded mistakes so no coa as not intended to be resold, source was bullet proof and i guess a handwriting expert could compare signatures so at least in this case theres something to go buy.
Id kill for an unsigned love rat or placard, theyre #1 on my current "Just out of reach" list, but the way prices are going, without unloading a decent stack of work that I love, I may not be able to get one. (Reason I tried to unload my Flores so many times)
So, was wondering, and of course this board is very helpful. Thanks guys!
Ive had 2 backdoor signed and numbered rats, one had been smudged the other was minumbered out of 175 like unsigned rather than 75 signed, discarded mistakes so no coa as not intended to be resold, source was bullet proof and i guess a handwriting expert could compare signatures so at least in this case theres something to go buy. Interesting, so they were supposed to be "real" but a mistake happened and they had to reprint? Thats a fun one to have. I assume "had" mans theyre long gone. Id kill for an unsigned love rat or placard, theyre #1 on my current "Just out of reach" list, but the way prices are going, without unloading a decent stack of work that I love, I may not be able to get one. (Reason I tried to unload my Flores so many times) So, was wondering, and of course this board is very helpful. Thanks guys! |
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
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Backdoor Banksy Prints, by Deleted on Aug 7, 2014 12:41:25 GMT 1, Ive had 2 backdoor signed and numbered rats, one had been smudged the other was minumbered out of 175 like unsigned rather than 75 signed, discarded mistakes so no coa as not intended to be resold, source was bullet proof and i guess a handwriting expert could compare signatures so at least in this case theres something to go buy. Interesting. What sort of prices do they go for?
Ive had 2 backdoor signed and numbered rats, one had been smudged the other was minumbered out of 175 like unsigned rather than 75 signed, discarded mistakes so no coa as not intended to be resold, source was bullet proof and i guess a handwriting expert could compare signatures so at least in this case theres something to go buy. Interesting. What sort of prices do they go for? No idea tbh dungle, sold them a couple of years ago, wish I had kept one! One was bought by a lady in her 80's and when I delivered it to her house it was like antique roadshow, weirdly the Get out looked amazing just inside her front door, so out of place it worked, great character she was. They were stamped too so if a top signature specialist give them the nod in writing it would be well worth his fee I'd guess. |
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
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Backdoor Banksy Prints, by Deleted on Aug 7, 2014 12:47:20 GMT 1, Would love to see the smudge Mr CG, is it a good decent one........ Why am I so curious to see this ? No worries if not
Would love to see the smudge Mr CG, is it a good decent one........ Why am I so curious to see this ? No worries if not If I still had it I would no problem but its long gone, the image itself was perfect just a smudge on the pencil signature, would have been easy enough to fix with a rubber I would have thought but I guess they over print a small number for instances like this, the one numbered out of 175 was perfect bar the extra 1, probably 175 in the brain after numbering the unsigned ones. |
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
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Backdoor Banksy Prints, by Deleted on Aug 7, 2014 12:51:07 GMT 1, One was bought by a lady in her 80's and when I delivered it to her house it was like antique roadshow
One was bought by a lady in her 80's and when I delivered it to her house it was like antique roadshow Is she a looker?. |
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craigf
Full Member
๐จ๏ธ 8,557
๐๐ป 846
May 2007
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Backdoor Banksy Prints, by craigf on Aug 7, 2014 12:52:37 GMT 1, Ive had 2 backdoor signed and numbered rats, one had been smudged the other was minumbered out of 175 like unsigned rather than 75 signed, discarded mistakes so no coa as not intended to be resold, source was bullet proof and i guess a handwriting expert could compare signatures so at least in this case theres something to go buy.
Ive had 2 backdoor signed and numbered rats, one had been smudged the other was minumbered out of 175 like unsigned rather than 75 signed, discarded mistakes so no coa as not intended to be resold, source was bullet proof and i guess a handwriting expert could compare signatures so at least in this case theres something to go buy. I think these won't have been backdoor prints especially as you said there was a level of provenance. Backdoors are just that, never been close to the artists hand and were additional copies produced by the printers. I think yours were destined to be sold as part of the edition, but due to their flaws were held to one side and then given out on the quiet to a friend or someone who asked for one either free or for a small amount. I've never seen a backdoor rat of any kind, but have seen prints as you've described here before that could always be traced back, but had absolutely zero chance of getting a COA. |
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
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Backdoor Banksy Prints, by Deleted on Aug 7, 2014 13:08:36 GMT 1, Ive had 2 backdoor signed and numbered rats, one had been smudged the other was minumbered out of 175 like unsigned rather than 75 signed, discarded mistakes so no coa as not intended to be resold, source was bullet proof and i guess a handwriting expert could compare signatures so at least in this case theres something to go buy. I think these won't have been backdoor prints especially as you said there was a level of provenance. Backdoors are just that, never been close to the artists hand and were additional copies produced by the printers. I think yours were destined to be sold as part of the edition, but due to their flaws were held to one side and then given out on the quiet to a friend or someone who asked for one either free or for a small amount. I've never seen a backdoor rat of any kind, but have seen prints as you've described here before that could always be traced back, but had absolutely zero chance of getting a COA.
Ive had 2 backdoor signed and numbered rats, one had been smudged the other was minumbered out of 175 like unsigned rather than 75 signed, discarded mistakes so no coa as not intended to be resold, source was bullet proof and i guess a handwriting expert could compare signatures so at least in this case theres something to go buy. I think these won't have been backdoor prints especially as you said there was a level of provenance. Backdoors are just that, never been close to the artists hand and were additional copies produced by the printers. I think yours were destined to be sold as part of the edition, but due to their flaws were held to one side and then given out on the quiet to a friend or someone who asked for one either free or for a small amount. I've never seen a backdoor rat of any kind, but have seen prints as you've described here before that could always be traced back, but had absolutely zero chance of getting a COA. Yeah I think that's spot on Craig, theyre totally legit and not included in the ed because of the mistakes so no Coa unfortunately, do wish I'd kept one. |
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
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Backdoor Banksy Prints, by Deleted on Aug 7, 2014 13:10:59 GMT 1, One was bought by a lady in her 80's and when I delivered it to her house it was like antique roadshow Is she a looker?. 
One was bought by a lady in her 80's and when I delivered it to her house it was like antique roadshow Is she a looker?. Sure was but I have thing for flowery dress's and hairpins |
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sohohoho
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,693
๐๐ป 451
April 2011
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Backdoor Banksy Prints, by sohohoho on Aug 7, 2014 14:14:46 GMT 1, I think these won't have been backdoor prints especially as you said there was a level of provenance. Backdoors are just that, never been close to the artists hand and were additional copies produced by the printers. I think yours were destined to be sold as part of the edition, but due to their flaws were held to one side and then given out on the quiet to a friend or someone who asked for one either free or for a small amount. I've never seen a backdoor rat of any kind, but have seen prints as you've described here before that could always be traced back, but had absolutely zero chance of getting a COA. Yeah I think that's spot on Craig, theyre totally legit and not included in the ed because of the mistakes so no Coa unfortunately, do wish I'd kept one.
I've got three of these. Love Rat, Worthless Rat and Radar Rat! Worthless is signed!! Maybe I should post some photos...
I think these won't have been backdoor prints especially as you said there was a level of provenance. Backdoors are just that, never been close to the artists hand and were additional copies produced by the printers. I think yours were destined to be sold as part of the edition, but due to their flaws were held to one side and then given out on the quiet to a friend or someone who asked for one either free or for a small amount. I've never seen a backdoor rat of any kind, but have seen prints as you've described here before that could always be traced back, but had absolutely zero chance of getting a COA. Yeah I think that's spot on Craig, theyre totally legit and not included in the ed because of the mistakes so no Coa unfortunately, do wish I'd kept one. I've got three of these. Love Rat, Worthless Rat and Radar Rat! Worthless is signed!! Maybe I should post some photos... |
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
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Backdoor Banksy Prints, by Deleted on Aug 7, 2014 14:25:43 GMT 1, Yeah I think that's spot on Craig, theyre totally legit and not included in the ed because of the mistakes so no Coa unfortunately, do wish I'd kept one. I've got three of these. Love Rat, Worthless Rat and Radar Rat! Worthless is signed!! Maybe I should post some photos...
Yeah I think that's spot on Craig, theyre totally legit and not included in the ed because of the mistakes so no Coa unfortunately, do wish I'd kept one. I've got three of these. Love Rat, Worthless Rat and Radar Rat! Worthless is signed!! Maybe I should post some photos... Get at me if you want to move any. |
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DrWhite
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 4,108
๐๐ป 5,396
August 2012
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Backdoor Banksy Prints, by DrWhite on Aug 7, 2014 14:25:54 GMT 1, Yeah I think that's spot on Craig, theyre totally legit and not included in the ed because of the mistakes so no Coa unfortunately, do wish I'd kept one. I've got three of these. Love Rat, Worthless Rat and Radar Rat! Worthless is signed!! Maybe I should post some photos...
Radar rat - No1 !! Put up a pic for sure sohohoho
Yeah I think that's spot on Craig, theyre totally legit and not included in the ed because of the mistakes so no Coa unfortunately, do wish I'd kept one. I've got three of these. Love Rat, Worthless Rat and Radar Rat! Worthless is signed!! Maybe I should post some photos... Radar rat - No1 !! Put up a pic for sure sohohoho |
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DrWhite
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 4,108
๐๐ป 5,396
August 2012
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Backdoor Banksy Prints, by DrWhite on Aug 7, 2014 18:47:28 GMT 1, They're fantastic sohohoho !
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sohohoho
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,693
๐๐ป 451
April 2011
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Backdoor Banksy Prints, by sohohoho on Aug 7, 2014 18:47:52 GMT 1, Sorry, I made a mistake. It's Gangsta that I've got, not Worthless. They've all got condition issues but still, gems or what? The Radar was hand finished but numbered incorrectly. Not sure why the Love Rat didn't make the cut because it is numbered. Maybe an accidental duplicate number? Who knows.
Sorry, I made a mistake. It's Gangsta that I've got, not Worthless. They've all got condition issues but still, gems or what? The Radar was hand finished but numbered incorrectly. Not sure why the Love Rat didn't make the cut because it is numbered. Maybe an accidental duplicate number? Who knows.
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
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Backdoor Banksy Prints, by Deleted on Aug 7, 2014 20:10:21 GMT 1, Yeah Id kill for that Love Rat.
Yeah Id kill for that Love Rat. |
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sohohoho
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,693
๐๐ป 451
April 2011
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Backdoor Banksy Prints, by sohohoho on Aug 7, 2014 20:43:28 GMT 1, I've just realised, the splash above the end of the tail is probably why the Love Rat didn't make the cut!
I've just realised, the splash above the end of the tail is probably why the Love Rat didn't make the cut!
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Cornish Crayon
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 3,965
๐๐ป 2,902
December 2007
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Backdoor Banksy Prints, by Cornish Crayon on Aug 7, 2014 21:43:06 GMT 1, I've just realised, the splash above the end of the tail is probably why the Love Rat didn't make the cut!
nevermind still a corker dude
I've just realised, the splash above the end of the tail is probably why the Love Rat didn't make the cut! I spotted that the second I saw it, I don't own it but it it looks like that's the error......... nevermind still a corker dude |
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
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Backdoor Banksy Prints, by Deleted on Aug 7, 2014 21:55:05 GMT 1, I've just realised, the splash above the end of the tail is probably why the Love Rat didn't make the cut! I spotted that the second I saw it, I don't own it but it it looks like that's the error......... nevermind still a corker dude
I've just realised, the splash above the end of the tail is probably why the Love Rat didn't make the cut! I spotted that the second I saw it, I don't own it but it it looks like that's the error......... nevermind still a corker dude It's not that as mine's got that splash. |
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matp
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 501
๐๐ป 499
March 2013
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Backdoor Banksy Prints, by matp on Aug 7, 2014 22:00:43 GMT 1, Yeah, they all have that, so not that!
Yeah, they all have that, so not that!
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