LJCal
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,980
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December 2019
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by LJCal on May 4, 2021 23:19:09 GMT 1, Flip away and fuck what everyone else thinks. Most people on here complaining about flipping all do it anyway they just keep it quiet, or have the hump they missed the opportnity to be the one flipping. And nothing wrong with Connor Brothers, I've done really well on all their releases, just buy cheap and sell before the ink drys.
Flip away and fuck what everyone else thinks. Most people on here complaining about flipping all do it anyway they just keep it quiet, or have the hump they missed the opportnity to be the one flipping. And nothing wrong with Connor Brothers, I've done really well on all their releases, just buy cheap and sell before the ink drys.
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sandworm
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 144
๐๐ป 151
February 2021
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by sandworm on May 4, 2021 23:26:05 GMT 1, How about you get a hobby, where you can be part of the club you really wanna be in, without raining on the parade of people who maybe only have 50ยฃ a month, save for the year, to get a print from an artist they really love, but can't get it, because some people see this as a brokering game?
It's all perspective, ยฃ500 was a completely arbitrary figure plucked from my imagination for illustrative purposes.
It doesn't matter wether you can afford: ยฃ5, ยฃ50, ยฃ500 or ยฃ5000 the same logic still applies, someone will always be priced out, sadly you appear to have more of a problem with capitalism than anything else.
How about you get a hobby, where you can be part of the club you really wanna be in, without raining on the parade of people who maybe only have 50ยฃ a month, save for the year, to get a print from an artist they really love, but can't get it, because some people see this as a brokering game? It's all perspective, ยฃ500 was a completely arbitrary figure plucked from my imagination for illustrative purposes. It doesn't matter wether you can afford: ยฃ5, ยฃ50, ยฃ500 or ยฃ5000 the same logic still applies, someone will always be priced out, sadly you appear to have more of a problem with capitalism than anything else. |
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LJCal
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,980
๐๐ป 4,523
December 2019
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by LJCal on May 4, 2021 23:32:59 GMT 1, I think there are billion or two people I'll feel sorry for before the art collector who can't buy his favourite print because of flippers.
I think there are billion or two people I'll feel sorry for before the art collector who can't buy his favourite print because of flippers.
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LJCal
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,980
๐๐ป 4,523
December 2019
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by LJCal on May 4, 2021 23:38:06 GMT 1, I think there a billion or two people I'll feel sorry for before the art collector who can't buy his favourite print because of flippers. It's not just art. It's everything.
I think there a billion or two people I'll feel sorry for before the art collector who can't buy his favourite print because of flippers. It's not just art. It's everything. That's the point, no matter where there's scarcity there'll be winners and losers. Being on the losing end of a print drop really isn't a big deal in the general scheme of things. |
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by Sebastian Dusseldorf on May 4, 2021 23:40:20 GMT 1, ... sadly you appear to have more of a problem with capitalism than anything else.
Well, most of us here use urban art and this forum as a hobby and spend some time to unwind. I find it rather pittyful that you not only need to flip prints for a few hundred bugs, but also seem to be eager to get some kind of acknowledgement or absolution from the forum here.
If you need that cash, do it. It's a free market, it's legal, no one will stop you.
... sadly you appear to have more of a problem with capitalism than anything else. Well, most of us here use urban art and this forum as a hobby and spend some time to unwind. I find it rather pittyful that you not only need to flip prints for a few hundred bugs, but also seem to be eager to get some kind of acknowledgement or absolution from the forum here. If you need that cash, do it. It's a free market, it's legal, no one will stop you. |
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by Sebastian Dusseldorf on May 4, 2021 23:42:44 GMT 1, I think there are billion or two people I'll feel sorry for before the art collector who can't buy his favourite print because of flippers.
Got an estimate how many of them are on this forum? Or is that just whataboutism?
I think there are billion or two people I'll feel sorry for before the art collector who can't buy his favourite print because of flippers. Got an estimate how many of them are on this forum? Or is that just whataboutism? |
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sandworm
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 144
๐๐ป 151
February 2021
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by sandworm on May 4, 2021 23:42:55 GMT 1, It's all perspective, ยฃ500 was a completely arbitrary figure plucked from my imagination for illustrative purposes. It doesn't matter wether you can afford: ยฃ5, ยฃ50, ยฃ500 or ยฃ5000 the same logic still applies, someone will always be priced out, sadly you appear to have more of a problem with capitalism than anything else. You may find that whatever art you own, there's always something else that you crave that's just financially out of reach. And if you just had a bit more money, or that original rather than that print , or that painting that you always wanted then you'd finally be happy. But you won't be. Not until you've finished paying off the damage to your neighbour's Maestro, anyway. Then you'll be free.
Perhaps the tone of my original post was poorly judged but I'm not under any illusions that any material object will ever bring me happiness.
For me it's about enjoying the journey and embracing that feeling of desire. You may obtain the print from Banksy you've always dreamed of but the original will always be out there somewhere 
Is there any problem with desire and ambition?
It's all perspective, ยฃ500 was a completely arbitrary figure plucked from my imagination for illustrative purposes. It doesn't matter wether you can afford: ยฃ5, ยฃ50, ยฃ500 or ยฃ5000 the same logic still applies, someone will always be priced out, sadly you appear to have more of a problem with capitalism than anything else. You may find that whatever art you own, there's always something else that you crave that's just financially out of reach. And if you just had a bit more money, or that original rather than that print , or that painting that you always wanted then you'd finally be happy. But you won't be. Not until you've finished paying off the damage to your neighbour's Maestro, anyway. Then you'll be free. Perhaps the tone of my original post was poorly judged but I'm not under any illusions that any material object will ever bring me happiness. For me it's about enjoying the journey and embracing that feeling of desire. You may obtain the print from Banksy you've always dreamed of but the original will always be out there somewhere Is there any problem with desire and ambition? |
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sandworm
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 144
๐๐ป 151
February 2021
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by sandworm on May 4, 2021 23:52:22 GMT 1, ... sadly you appear to have more of a problem with capitalism than anything else. Well, most of us here use urban art and this forum as a hobby and spend some time to unwind. I find it rather pittyful that you not only need to flip prints for a few hundred bugs, but also seem to be eager to get some kind of acknowledgement or absolution from the forum here. If you need that cash, do it. It's a free market, it's legal, no one will stop you.
I'm not quite sure where you get the opinion I'm seeking 'acknowledgment or absolution' by posting a topic specifically titled 'debate' which was quite clearly designed to spark a conversation.
I do find it rather disappointing that you can't engage in a sensible discussion without trying to make things personal and thus completely detracting from the point of my post. Equally there are many other threads available to you if you wanted something lighter to 'unwind'.
... sadly you appear to have more of a problem with capitalism than anything else. Well, most of us here use urban art and this forum as a hobby and spend some time to unwind. I find it rather pittyful that you not only need to flip prints for a few hundred bugs, but also seem to be eager to get some kind of acknowledgement or absolution from the forum here. If you need that cash, do it. It's a free market, it's legal, no one will stop you. For me engaging in some form of intellectual debate, listening to opinions that may not align with my own is both enjoyable and intellectually stimulating. I'm not quite sure where you get the opinion I'm seeking 'acknowledgment or absolution' by posting a topic specifically titled 'debate' which was quite clearly designed to spark a conversation. I do find it rather disappointing that you can't engage in a sensible discussion without trying to make things personal and thus completely detracting from the point of my post. Equally there are many other threads available to you if you wanted something lighter to 'unwind'. |
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by Coach on May 5, 2021 0:05:28 GMT 1, Itโs parasitical.
It will always happen.
It wonโt stop just because I think itโs parasitical.
It used to be frowned upon here.
Not so much anymore.
I think thatโs a shame.
But Iโm in the minority these days.
So be it, but that wonโt change my opinion.
This discussion takes place so regularly, it should be easy to find previous threads.
Itโs parasitical.
It will always happen.
It wonโt stop just because I think itโs parasitical.
It used to be frowned upon here.
Not so much anymore.
I think thatโs a shame.
But Iโm in the minority these days.
So be it, but that wonโt change my opinion.
This discussion takes place so regularly, it should be easy to find previous threads.
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LJCal
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,980
๐๐ป 4,523
December 2019
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by LJCal on May 5, 2021 0:12:37 GMT 1, I think there are billion or two people I'll feel sorry for before the art collector who can't buy his favourite print because of flippers. Got an estimate how many of them are on this forum? Or is that just whataboutism?
I think there are billion or two people I'll feel sorry for before the art collector who can't buy his favourite print because of flippers. Got an estimate how many of them are on this forum? Or is that just whataboutism? People on this Forum facing genuine hardship? I'll go with a conservative estimate of zero |
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sandworm
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 144
๐๐ป 151
February 2021
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by sandworm on May 5, 2021 0:50:32 GMT 1, Itโs parasitical. It will always happen. It wonโt stop just because I think itโs parasitical. It used to be frowned upon here. Not so much anymore. I think thatโs a shame. But Iโm in the minority these days. So be it, but that wonโt change my opinion. This discussion takes place so regularly, it should be easy to find previous threads.
Playing devils advocate here, what if what we were actually looking at wasn't parasitical but a positive symbiotic relationship such as that seen between flowers and bees.
A bee buzz's up to a flower and takes all the nectar, covering itself in pollen (yes this leaves no available nectar for future bees, but such is life there will always be another flower to visit). The flower requires that bee to enable it to pollenate and as a result purposely enticed him in with it's sweet nectar.
The art market needs the 'bees' to keep it moving, if everyone bought and held it would be impossible to ever obtain the majority of pieces. Sure some bees race in and deliver their small amount of nectar (profit) back quickly while others more leisurely potter around various flowers taking a bit from here and there before returning to deliver their impressive nectar haul. Regardless, flowers / markets need a variety of different players to operate efficiently and the short term flippers aid to keep the market alive and buoyant for when the more leisurely bee's arrive back to the nest.
Itโs parasitical. It will always happen. It wonโt stop just because I think itโs parasitical. It used to be frowned upon here. Not so much anymore. I think thatโs a shame. But Iโm in the minority these days. So be it, but that wonโt change my opinion. This discussion takes place so regularly, it should be easy to find previous threads. Playing devils advocate here, what if what we were actually looking at wasn't parasitical but a positive symbiotic relationship such as that seen between flowers and bees. A bee buzz's up to a flower and takes all the nectar, covering itself in pollen (yes this leaves no available nectar for future bees, but such is life there will always be another flower to visit). The flower requires that bee to enable it to pollenate and as a result purposely enticed him in with it's sweet nectar. The art market needs the 'bees' to keep it moving, if everyone bought and held it would be impossible to ever obtain the majority of pieces. Sure some bees race in and deliver their small amount of nectar (profit) back quickly while others more leisurely potter around various flowers taking a bit from here and there before returning to deliver their impressive nectar haul. Regardless, flowers / markets need a variety of different players to operate efficiently and the short term flippers aid to keep the market alive and buoyant for when the more leisurely bee's arrive back to the nest. |
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sandworm
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 144
๐๐ป 151
February 2021
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by sandworm on May 5, 2021 0:57:28 GMT 1, Playing devils advocate here, what if what we were actually looking at wasn't parasitical but a positive symbiotic relationship such as that seen between flowers and bees. A bee buzz's up to a flower and takes all the nectar, covering itself in pollen (yes this leaves no available nectar for future bees, but such is life there will always be another flower to visit). The flower requires that bee to enable it to pollenate and as a result purposely enticed him in with it's sweet nectar. The art market needs the 'bees' to keep it moving, if everyone bought and held it would be impossible to ever obtain the majority of pieces. Sure some bees race in and deliver their small amount of nectar (profit) back quickly while others more leisurely potter around various flowers taking a bit from here and there before returning to deliver their impressive nectar haul. Regardless, flowers / markets need a variety of different players to operate efficiently and the short term flippers aid to keep the market alive and buoyant for when the more leisurely bee's arrive back to the nest. The only explanation for this is that someone has dared you to find a way to write โimpressive nectar haulโ on an art forum without anyone batting an eyelid. Good effort, but Iโm on to you.
Playing devils advocate here, what if what we were actually looking at wasn't parasitical but a positive symbiotic relationship such as that seen between flowers and bees. A bee buzz's up to a flower and takes all the nectar, covering itself in pollen (yes this leaves no available nectar for future bees, but such is life there will always be another flower to visit). The flower requires that bee to enable it to pollenate and as a result purposely enticed him in with it's sweet nectar. The art market needs the 'bees' to keep it moving, if everyone bought and held it would be impossible to ever obtain the majority of pieces. Sure some bees race in and deliver their small amount of nectar (profit) back quickly while others more leisurely potter around various flowers taking a bit from here and there before returning to deliver their impressive nectar haul. Regardless, flowers / markets need a variety of different players to operate efficiently and the short term flippers aid to keep the market alive and buoyant for when the more leisurely bee's arrive back to the nest. The only explanation for this is that someone has dared you to find a way to write โimpressive nectar haulโ on an art forum without anyone batting an eyelid. Good effort, but Iโm on to you. You've got to appreciate the long game here. Fell at the last hurdle! |
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sandworm
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 144
๐๐ป 151
February 2021
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by sandworm on May 5, 2021 0:59:27 GMT 1, Playing devils advocate here, what if what we were actually looking at wasn't parasitical but a positive symbiotic relationship such as that seen between flowers and bees. A bee buzz's up to a flower and takes all the nectar, covering itself in pollen (yes this leaves no available nectar for future bees, but such is life there will always be another flower to visit). The flower requires that bee to enable it to pollenate and as a result purposely enticed him in with it's sweet nectar. The art market needs the 'bees' to keep it moving, if everyone bought and held it would be impossible to ever obtain the majority of pieces. Sure some bees race in and deliver their small amount of nectar (profit) back quickly while others more leisurely potter around various flowers taking a bit from here and there before returning to deliver their impressive nectar haul. Regardless, flowers / markets need a variety of different players to operate efficiently and the short term flippers aid to keep the market alive and buoyant for when the more leisurely bee's arrive back to the nest. In this example you're a worm that has nothing to do with anything but somehow collects all the pollen and kills off the flowers and then demands money from the bees because of capitalism and then the entire fucking world dies because bees don't speak English or have money 
Playing devils advocate here, what if what we were actually looking at wasn't parasitical but a positive symbiotic relationship such as that seen between flowers and bees. A bee buzz's up to a flower and takes all the nectar, covering itself in pollen (yes this leaves no available nectar for future bees, but such is life there will always be another flower to visit). The flower requires that bee to enable it to pollenate and as a result purposely enticed him in with it's sweet nectar. The art market needs the 'bees' to keep it moving, if everyone bought and held it would be impossible to ever obtain the majority of pieces. Sure some bees race in and deliver their small amount of nectar (profit) back quickly while others more leisurely potter around various flowers taking a bit from here and there before returning to deliver their impressive nectar haul. Regardless, flowers / markets need a variety of different players to operate efficiently and the short term flippers aid to keep the market alive and buoyant for when the more leisurely bee's arrive back to the nest. In this example you're a worm that has nothing to do with anything but somehow collects all the pollen and kills off the flowers and then demands money from the bees because of capitalism and then the entire fucking world dies because bees don't speak English or have money Oh goodness the can of worms has been opened! |
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by Coach on May 5, 2021 1:02:08 GMT 1, Itโs parasitical. It will always happen. It wonโt stop just because I think itโs parasitical. It used to be frowned upon here. Not so much anymore. I think thatโs a shame. But Iโm in the minority these days. So be it, but that wonโt change my opinion. This discussion takes place so regularly, it should be easy to find previous threads. Playing devils advocate here, what if what we were actually looking at wasn't parasitical but a positive symbiotic relationship such as that seen between flowers and bees. A bee buzz's up to a flower and takes all the nectar, covering itself in pollen (yes this leaves no available nectar for future bees, but such is life there will always be another flower to visit). The flower requires that bee to enable it to pollenate and as a result purposely enticed him in with it's sweet nectar. The art market needs the 'bees' toย keep it moving, if everyone bought and held it would be impossible to ever obtain the majority of pieces. Sure some bees race in and deliver their small amount of nectar (profit) back quickly while others more leisurely potter around various flowers taking a bit from here and there before returning to deliver their impressive nectar haul. Regardless, flowers / markets need a variety of different players to operate efficiently and the short term flippers aid to keep the market alive and buoyant for when the more leisurely bee's arrive back to the nest.
If you buy art with the sole intention of flipping it for a profit you are
1) profiting from the creativity of another
2) depriving another collector from buying the piece
Itโs unarguably parasitical.
If you canโt afford a Banksy, buy something else.
Similarly there is a huge amount of art that I adore but canโt afford.
That said, this is almost certainly a minority view here these day, so do as you will. You need not my, nor anyone elseโs, approval.
Itโs parasitical. It will always happen. It wonโt stop just because I think itโs parasitical. It used to be frowned upon here. Not so much anymore. I think thatโs a shame. But Iโm in the minority these days. So be it, but that wonโt change my opinion. This discussion takes place so regularly, it should be easy to find previous threads. Playing devils advocate here, what if what we were actually looking at wasn't parasitical but a positive symbiotic relationship such as that seen between flowers and bees. A bee buzz's up to a flower and takes all the nectar, covering itself in pollen (yes this leaves no available nectar for future bees, but such is life there will always be another flower to visit). The flower requires that bee to enable it to pollenate and as a result purposely enticed him in with it's sweet nectar. The art market needs the 'bees' toย keep it moving, if everyone bought and held it would be impossible to ever obtain the majority of pieces. Sure some bees race in and deliver their small amount of nectar (profit) back quickly while others more leisurely potter around various flowers taking a bit from here and there before returning to deliver their impressive nectar haul. Regardless, flowers / markets need a variety of different players to operate efficiently and the short term flippers aid to keep the market alive and buoyant for when the more leisurely bee's arrive back to the nest. If you buy art with the sole intention of flipping it for a profit you are 1) profiting from the creativity of another 2) depriving another collector from buying the piece Itโs unarguably parasitical. If you canโt afford a Banksy, buy something else. Similarly there is a huge amount of art that I adore but canโt afford. That said, this is almost certainly a minority view here these day, so do as you will. You need not my, nor anyone elseโs, approval. |
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sandworm
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 144
๐๐ป 151
February 2021
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by sandworm on May 5, 2021 1:11:48 GMT 1, Playing devils advocate here, what if what we were actually looking at wasn't parasitical but a positive symbiotic relationship such as that seen between flowers and bees. A bee buzz's up to a flower and takes all the nectar, covering itself in pollen (yes this leaves no available nectar for future bees, but such is life there will always be another flower to visit). The flower requires that bee to enable it to pollenate and as a result purposely enticed him in with it's sweet nectar. The art market needs the 'bees' to keep it moving, if everyone bought and held it would be impossible to ever obtain the majority of pieces. Sure some bees race in and deliver their small amount of nectar (profit) back quickly while others more leisurely potter around various flowers taking a bit from here and there before returning to deliver their impressive nectar haul. Regardless, flowers / markets need a variety of different players to operate efficiently and the short term flippers aid to keep the market alive and buoyant for when the more leisurely bee's arrive back to the nest. If you buy art with the sole intention of flipping it for a profit you are 1) profiting from the creativity of another 2) depriving another collector from buying the piece Itโs unarguably parasitical. If you canโt afford a Banksy, buy something else. Similarly there is a huge amount of art that I adore but canโt afford. That said, this is almost certainly a minority view here these day, so do as you will. You need not my, nor anyone elseโs, approval.
Wether we like it or not art is an asset class and as long as everyone has fair access to the market and is given equal opportunity then its a free market.
As I've said before I'm not seeking approval, I'm not even looking to flip pieces, I'm simply trying to get my head around why some people feel so strongly about flipping.
Playing devils advocate here, what if what we were actually looking at wasn't parasitical but a positive symbiotic relationship such as that seen between flowers and bees. A bee buzz's up to a flower and takes all the nectar, covering itself in pollen (yes this leaves no available nectar for future bees, but such is life there will always be another flower to visit). The flower requires that bee to enable it to pollenate and as a result purposely enticed him in with it's sweet nectar. The art market needs the 'bees' to keep it moving, if everyone bought and held it would be impossible to ever obtain the majority of pieces. Sure some bees race in and deliver their small amount of nectar (profit) back quickly while others more leisurely potter around various flowers taking a bit from here and there before returning to deliver their impressive nectar haul. Regardless, flowers / markets need a variety of different players to operate efficiently and the short term flippers aid to keep the market alive and buoyant for when the more leisurely bee's arrive back to the nest. If you buy art with the sole intention of flipping it for a profit you are 1) profiting from the creativity of another 2) depriving another collector from buying the piece Itโs unarguably parasitical. If you canโt afford a Banksy, buy something else. Similarly there is a huge amount of art that I adore but canโt afford. That said, this is almost certainly a minority view here these day, so do as you will. You need not my, nor anyone elseโs, approval. Using bots and/or trying to artificially 'game' the market I entirely agree is parasitical, unfair and should be stopped. Wether we like it or not art is an asset class and as long as everyone has fair access to the market and is given equal opportunity then its a free market. As I've said before I'm not seeking approval, I'm not even looking to flip pieces, I'm simply trying to get my head around why some people feel so strongly about flipping. |
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by Coach on May 5, 2021 1:14:46 GMT 1, If you buy art with the sole intention of flipping it for a profit you are 1) profiting from the creativity of another 2) depriving another collector from buying the piece Itโs unarguably parasitical. If you canโt afford a Banksy, buy something else. Similarly there is a huge amount of art that I adore but canโt afford. That said, this is almost certainly a minority view here these day, so do as you will. You need not my, nor anyone elseโs, approval. Using bots and/or trying to artificially 'game' the market I entirely agree is parasitical, unfair and should be stopped. Wether we like it or not art is an asset class and as long as everyone has fair access to the market and is given equal opportunity then its a free market. As I've said before I'm not seeking approval, I'm not even looking to flip pieces, I'm simply trying to get my head around why some people feel so strongly about flipping.ย
In which case, asked and answered.
If you buy art with the sole intention of flipping it for a profit you are 1) profiting from the creativity of another 2) depriving another collector from buying the piece Itโs unarguably parasitical. If you canโt afford a Banksy, buy something else. Similarly there is a huge amount of art that I adore but canโt afford. That said, this is almost certainly a minority view here these day, so do as you will. You need not my, nor anyone elseโs, approval. Using bots and/or trying to artificially 'game' the market I entirely agree is parasitical, unfair and should be stopped. Wether we like it or not art is an asset class and as long as everyone has fair access to the market and is given equal opportunity then its a free market. As I've said before I'm not seeking approval, I'm not even looking to flip pieces, I'm simply trying to get my head around why some people feel so strongly about flipping.ย In which case, asked and answered. |
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Jimini Cricket
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,886
๐๐ป 1,267
December 2017
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by Jimini Cricket on May 5, 2021 1:16:36 GMT 1, Flipping is here to stay as long as there is money to be made.
Can be palatable if:
1. No bullshit excuses
2. Listed in hand with pictures
3. Transparency on prices. No fishing
Namaste
Flipping is here to stay as long as there is money to be made.
Can be palatable if:
1. No bullshit excuses
2. Listed in hand with pictures
3. Transparency on prices. No fishing
Namaste
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sandworm
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 144
๐๐ป 151
February 2021
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by sandworm on May 5, 2021 1:19:06 GMT 1, Using bots and/or trying to artificially 'game' the market I entirely agree is parasitical, unfair and should be stopped. Wether we like it or not art is an asset class and as long as everyone has fair access to the market and is given equal opportunity then its a free market. As I've said before I'm not seeking approval, I'm not even looking to flip pieces, I'm simply trying to get my head around why some people feel so strongly about flipping. In which case, asked and answered.
Using bots and/or trying to artificially 'game' the market I entirely agree is parasitical, unfair and should be stopped. Wether we like it or not art is an asset class and as long as everyone has fair access to the market and is given equal opportunity then its a free market. As I've said before I'm not seeking approval, I'm not even looking to flip pieces, I'm simply trying to get my head around why some people feel so strongly about flipping. In which case, asked and answered. Although the entire concept of a debate is that it's not a question which gets answered it fuels a discussion and engagement in a subject matter. |
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by Coach on May 5, 2021 1:33:51 GMT 1, In which case, asked and answered. Although the entire concept of a debate is that it's not a question which gets answered it fuels a discussion and engagement in a subject matter.ย
Is this your first/only account on this forum?
Iโm getting deja vu.
In which case, asked and answered. Although the entire concept of a debate is that it's not a question which gets answered it fuels a discussion and engagement in a subject matter.ย Is this your first/only account on this forum? Iโm getting deja vu. |
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Meskell
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 124
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March 2011
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by Meskell on May 5, 2021 1:46:47 GMT 1, The debate should be who is spending 50k on a street art print for the art.
The debate should be who is spending 50k on a street art print for the art.
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Ravnur 2020
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 667
๐๐ป 884
October 2020
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by Ravnur 2020 on May 5, 2021 3:05:40 GMT 1, Flipping sucks!
Flipping sucks!
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nobokov
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 4,948
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February 2016
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by nobokov on May 5, 2021 4:55:16 GMT 1, For most members, I don't buy the hatred. I assume that they're just flippers who condemn other sellers to try to deter more competition from entering their marketplace.
For most members, I don't buy the hatred. I assume that they're just flippers who condemn other sellers to try to deter more competition from entering their marketplace.
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state
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 250
๐๐ป 182
June 2020
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by state on May 5, 2021 6:33:10 GMT 1, to be honest, I flipped a few prints when I started collecting with the same mindset " flip my way to the grail I want" and it doesn't work that way. One reason being it isn't easy to obtain prints that are worth 2x + right off the bat. Yes, you might get lucky a few times, but the backlash and name you'd make for yourself aren't worth it in the long run. That is if you're trying to stay in the art world for a long time.
Another reason is you wouldn't want somebody reporting you to the gallery. As pathetic as it sounds, there are salty people who will do that. For me personally, burning a bridge that took a lot of time and $ to build isn't worth it.
The best advice I got and happily passing to you came from Artorious (love him or hate him) when he simply said " just make more money at your primary job/source of income"
Flip stocks, crypto, etc flipping art will do more harm than good. That's my two cents
to be honest, I flipped a few prints when I started collecting with the same mindset " flip my way to the grail I want" and it doesn't work that way. One reason being it isn't easy to obtain prints that are worth 2x + right off the bat. Yes, you might get lucky a few times, but the backlash and name you'd make for yourself aren't worth it in the long run. That is if you're trying to stay in the art world for a long time.
Another reason is you wouldn't want somebody reporting you to the gallery. As pathetic as it sounds, there are salty people who will do that. For me personally, burning a bridge that took a lot of time and $ to build isn't worth it.
The best advice I got and happily passing to you came from Artorious (love him or hate him) when he simply said " just make more money at your primary job/source of income"
Flip stocks, crypto, etc flipping art will do more harm than good. That's my two cents
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rosac
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,894
๐๐ป 1,538
July 2015
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by rosac on May 5, 2021 6:52:14 GMT 1, 9/10 times you are buying artwork from an artist that wants their work in the hands of collectors. They generally donโt want their artworks flipped. Itโs not illegal to flip an artwork, but as mentioned above but if you are caught you will most likely be blacklisted. Depends how well itโs sits with you I suppose.
9/10 times you are buying artwork from an artist that wants their work in the hands of collectors. They generally donโt want their artworks flipped. Itโs not illegal to flip an artwork, but as mentioned above but if you are caught you will most likely be blacklisted. Depends how well itโs sits with you I suppose.
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by The Italian One on May 5, 2021 16:11:48 GMT 1, I bought an invader kit some years ago from an UAA member who asked 1k more from retail price the day after the release (was busy that day and missed the drop)... well I still thanks that "flipper"
I bought an invader kit some years ago from an UAA member who asked 1k more from retail price the day after the release (was busy that day and missed the drop)... well I still thanks that "flipper"
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by Sebastian Dusseldorf on May 5, 2021 18:36:58 GMT 1, My 2 cents. I personally think that as a rule of thumb, once you purchase something, it's up to you to decide what to do with it. Surely I understand the artists getting p'd off knowing that people make money on their own work, but as art has become a highly collectible and exchangeable item, it should follow the demand/supply chain of collectible items. Surely the designers from Nike don't get p'd off if the trainers they design get purchased and re-sold for 3x the sale price. Artists have many options: a. Jump on the NFT train and get a % of the re-sales. b. Murakami effect: increase the prices of the prints as high as possible each time up to a point that it will match the secondary market. c. Flood the market d. Keep it as it is, enjoy your sales and think about the re-sales as free marketing. What annoys me is a handful of things: a. Galleries acting as flippers b. Galleries being not transparent on the sales/drops etc. c. People using bots with no art interest at all. Surely we can all get one though. d. Galleries/Artists doing ZERO to prevent bots. e. "VIPs" posting on IG their purchases from galleries even before a "lottery" has ended. Be smart FFS! f. Flippers flipping presales even before a drop starts (see Ebay/Fairey) or flippers flipping before even receiving the piece.
You have an interesting way of thinking...
So it's okay for you, if you are into art to profit from some other guys who are too?
But if you run a business to feed your family that same behaviour is not okay?
And you are comparing designers that have a contact with Nike and create a special edition so that this billion dollar company gets some social buzz with an urban arts artist?
Interesting.
My 2 cents. I personally think that as a rule of thumb, once you purchase something, it's up to you to decide what to do with it. Surely I understand the artists getting p'd off knowing that people make money on their own work, but as art has become a highly collectible and exchangeable item, it should follow the demand/supply chain of collectible items. Surely the designers from Nike don't get p'd off if the trainers they design get purchased and re-sold for 3x the sale price. Artists have many options: a. Jump on the NFT train and get a % of the re-sales. b. Murakami effect: increase the prices of the prints as high as possible each time up to a point that it will match the secondary market. c. Flood the market d. Keep it as it is, enjoy your sales and think about the re-sales as free marketing. What annoys me is a handful of things: a. Galleries acting as flippers b. Galleries being not transparent on the sales/drops etc. c. People using bots with no art interest at all. Surely we can all get one though. d. Galleries/Artists doing ZERO to prevent bots. e. "VIPs" posting on IG their purchases from galleries even before a "lottery" has ended. Be smart FFS! f. Flippers flipping presales even before a drop starts (see Ebay/Fairey) or flippers flipping before even receiving the piece. You have an interesting way of thinking... So it's okay for you, if you are into art to profit from some other guys who are too? But if you run a business to feed your family that same behaviour is not okay? And you are comparing designers that have a contact with Nike and create a special edition so that this billion dollar company gets some social buzz with an urban arts artist? Interesting. |
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artzzzy
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 246
๐๐ป 214
January 2021
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by artzzzy on May 5, 2021 19:03:49 GMT 1, My 2 cents. I personally think that as a rule of thumb, once you purchase something, it's up to you to decide what to do with it. Surely I understand the artists getting p'd off knowing that people make money on their own work, but as art has become a highly collectible and exchangeable item, it should follow the demand/supply chain of collectible items. Surely the designers from Nike don't get p'd off if the trainers they design get purchased and re-sold for 3x the sale price. Artists have many options: a. Jump on the NFT train and get a % of the re-sales. b. Murakami effect: increase the prices of the prints as high as possible each time up to a point that it will match the secondary market. c. Flood the market d. Keep it as it is, enjoy your sales and think about the re-sales as free marketing. What annoys me is a handful of things: a. Galleries acting as flippers b. Galleries being not transparent on the sales/drops etc. c. People using bots with no art interest at all. Surely we can all get one though. d. Galleries/Artists doing ZERO to prevent bots. e. "VIPs" posting on IG their purchases from galleries even before a "lottery" has ended. Be smart FFS! f. Flippers flipping presales even before a drop starts (see Ebay/Fairey) or flippers flipping before even receiving the piece.
I agree with everything you say!
This is basically the post Iโve been wanting to write but was just too lazy to do it hahahahahahaa
Iโm also annoyed by bots and flippers but have learned to accept it as part of the game.
If I lose a print or edition.. itโs Not the end of the world..there will be many more prints and more artists I like.
As for reselling original art, I only buy works that Iโm completely in love with.
The intention is never to invest or to see itโs value grow.
Also because many artist I like are not hot or flippable artists and never will be.
But that being said, the work is ultimately mine and if I donโt like an artist anymore Iโll just sell it.
Iโve actually had this conversation directly with many artists and all of them donโt give a shit if people resell their works.
For them once itโs exhibited and sold itโs done and theyโre over it and moving to the next project.
The people who make a big deal out of reselling originals are the galleries.
Because they basically lose the control they have over an artists work.
And the authority they enjoy to decide what to sell collectors and when and at what price.
My 2 cents. I personally think that as a rule of thumb, once you purchase something, it's up to you to decide what to do with it. Surely I understand the artists getting p'd off knowing that people make money on their own work, but as art has become a highly collectible and exchangeable item, it should follow the demand/supply chain of collectible items. Surely the designers from Nike don't get p'd off if the trainers they design get purchased and re-sold for 3x the sale price. Artists have many options: a. Jump on the NFT train and get a % of the re-sales. b. Murakami effect: increase the prices of the prints as high as possible each time up to a point that it will match the secondary market. c. Flood the market d. Keep it as it is, enjoy your sales and think about the re-sales as free marketing. What annoys me is a handful of things: a. Galleries acting as flippers b. Galleries being not transparent on the sales/drops etc. c. People using bots with no art interest at all. Surely we can all get one though. d. Galleries/Artists doing ZERO to prevent bots. e. "VIPs" posting on IG their purchases from galleries even before a "lottery" has ended. Be smart FFS! f. Flippers flipping presales even before a drop starts (see Ebay/Fairey) or flippers flipping before even receiving the piece. I agree with everything you say! This is basically the post Iโve been wanting to write but was just too lazy to do it hahahahahahaa Iโm also annoyed by bots and flippers but have learned to accept it as part of the game. If I lose a print or edition.. itโs Not the end of the world..there will be many more prints and more artists I like. As for reselling original art, I only buy works that Iโm completely in love with. The intention is never to invest or to see itโs value grow. Also because many artist I like are not hot or flippable artists and never will be. But that being said, the work is ultimately mine and if I donโt like an artist anymore Iโll just sell it. Iโve actually had this conversation directly with many artists and all of them donโt give a shit if people resell their works. For them once itโs exhibited and sold itโs done and theyโre over it and moving to the next project. The people who make a big deal out of reselling originals are the galleries. Because they basically lose the control they have over an artists work. And the authority they enjoy to decide what to sell collectors and when and at what price. |
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by Buttercup NYC on May 5, 2021 19:12:39 GMT 1, Im new to the game, and have not flipped anything. But I think serious collectors and art lovers get salty about flipping because art is a such a personal and emotional "hobby" (if I may call it that). When collectors see their beloved pieces so callously bought and sold, it creates a sense of coldness and possibly, protectiveness, that the owners have for the piece. Collecting (and flipping) art is different than collecting (and flipping) houses or possibly any other commodity (except for sneakers in my opinion which many are themselves works of art lol). This is an emotional game, which is why you see and read so many fierce and passionate threads on this forum. Apologies if this has been noted before on this thread.
Im new to the game, and have not flipped anything. But I think serious collectors and art lovers get salty about flipping because art is a such a personal and emotional "hobby" (if I may call it that). When collectors see their beloved pieces so callously bought and sold, it creates a sense of coldness and possibly, protectiveness, that the owners have for the piece. Collecting (and flipping) art is different than collecting (and flipping) houses or possibly any other commodity (except for sneakers in my opinion which many are themselves works of art lol). This is an emotional game, which is why you see and read so many fierce and passionate threads on this forum. Apologies if this has been noted before on this thread.
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by John The Badgers on May 5, 2021 19:21:10 GMT 1, Just my contribution, and appreciate all the constructive comments above.
Appreciate its a necessary evil of this 'market', and will mean a lot of people get the hump, including myself on numerous occasions.
That said, the one thing that really ruffles my feathers is when 'charity prints' get quickly and obviously flipped. The Miller 'Who Cares Wins' springs to mind.
Recall people trying to sell on here for circa ยฃ20K soon after release.
I know some will roll out the usual 'but its my property' etc, but when an artist has used their ability to benefit someone or something as a good cause, in this case the NHS, for someone to profit from this for me is morally wrong.
Would question someone's moral fibre if they could justify this as the best way to earn their corn.
Just my contribution, and appreciate all the constructive comments above.
Appreciate its a necessary evil of this 'market', and will mean a lot of people get the hump, including myself on numerous occasions.
That said, the one thing that really ruffles my feathers is when 'charity prints' get quickly and obviously flipped. The Miller 'Who Cares Wins' springs to mind.
Recall people trying to sell on here for circa ยฃ20K soon after release.
I know some will roll out the usual 'but its my property' etc, but when an artist has used their ability to benefit someone or something as a good cause, in this case the NHS, for someone to profit from this for me is morally wrong.
Would question someone's moral fibre if they could justify this as the best way to earn their corn.
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by Deleted on May 5, 2021 19:22:10 GMT 1, I don't think any words people type will change minds on this subject
I don't think any words people type will change minds on this subject
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