Deleted
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January 1970
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by Deleted on May 5, 2021 20:25:14 GMT 1, Playing devils advocate here, what if what we were actually looking at wasn't parasitical but a positive symbiotic relationship such as that seen between flowers and bees. A bee buzz's up to a flower and takes all the nectar, covering itself in pollen (yes this leaves no available nectar for future bees, but such is life there will always be another flower to visit). The flower requires that bee to enable it to pollenate and as a result purposely enticed him in with it's sweet nectar. The art market needs the 'bees' to keep it moving, if everyone bought and held it would be impossible to ever obtain the majority of pieces. Sure some bees race in and deliver their small amount of nectar (profit) back quickly while others more leisurely potter around various flowers taking a bit from here and there before returning to deliver their impressive nectar haul. Regardless, flowers / markets need a variety of different players to operate efficiently and the short term flippers aid to keep the market alive and buoyant for when the more leisurely bee's arrive back to the nest. If you buy art with the sole intention of flipping it for a profit you are 1) profiting from the creativity of another 2) depriving another collector from buying the piece Itโs unarguably parasitical. If you canโt afford a Banksy, buy something else. Similarly there is a huge amount of art that I adore but canโt afford. That said, this is almost certainly a minority view here these day, so do as you will. You need not my, nor anyone elseโs, approval.
Playing devils advocate here, what if what we were actually looking at wasn't parasitical but a positive symbiotic relationship such as that seen between flowers and bees. A bee buzz's up to a flower and takes all the nectar, covering itself in pollen (yes this leaves no available nectar for future bees, but such is life there will always be another flower to visit). The flower requires that bee to enable it to pollenate and as a result purposely enticed him in with it's sweet nectar. The art market needs the 'bees' to keep it moving, if everyone bought and held it would be impossible to ever obtain the majority of pieces. Sure some bees race in and deliver their small amount of nectar (profit) back quickly while others more leisurely potter around various flowers taking a bit from here and there before returning to deliver their impressive nectar haul. Regardless, flowers / markets need a variety of different players to operate efficiently and the short term flippers aid to keep the market alive and buoyant for when the more leisurely bee's arrive back to the nest. If you buy art with the sole intention of flipping it for a profit you are 1) profiting from the creativity of another 2) depriving another collector from buying the piece Itโs unarguably parasitical. If you canโt afford a Banksy, buy something else. Similarly there is a huge amount of art that I adore but canโt afford. That said, this is almost certainly a minority view here these day, so do as you will. You need not my, nor anyone elseโs, approval. 3) Pumping and dumping the artist (falsely inflating the artist short term and helping to ensure they don't have a long term career) though certain galleries support this as well |
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by Coach on May 5, 2021 20:59:15 GMT 1, If you buy art with the sole intention of flipping it for a profit you are 1) profiting from the creativity of another 2) depriving another collector from buying the piece Itโs unarguably parasitical. If you canโt afford a Banksy, buy something else. Similarly there is a huge amount of art that I adore but canโt afford. That said, this is almost certainly a minority view here these day, so do as you will. You need not my, nor anyone elseโs, approval. 3)ย Pumping and dumping the artist (falsely inflating the artist short term and helping to ensure they don't have a long term career) though certain galleries support this as well
Agreed
If you buy art with the sole intention of flipping it for a profit you are 1) profiting from the creativity of another 2) depriving another collector from buying the piece Itโs unarguably parasitical. If you canโt afford a Banksy, buy something else. Similarly there is a huge amount of art that I adore but canโt afford. That said, this is almost certainly a minority view here these day, so do as you will. You need not my, nor anyone elseโs, approval. 3)ย Pumping and dumping the artist (falsely inflating the artist short term and helping to ensure they don't have a long term career) though certain galleries support this as well Agreed |
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by That Print Guy on May 5, 2021 21:32:20 GMT 1, no one is entitled to limited release expensive pictures from famous artists. I did exactly what you describe 10 years ago. Flipped a bunch of stuff (thx Shep, Mondo and Mr Brainwash!) and bought an unsigned love rat in 2011 for ยฃ1100. flip away. The people that get salty just want something for below market prices.
Luxury items.
Luxury items.
Luxury items.
End thread. If you're flipping bread after buying out the baker when everyone else has none and are hungry you are a fucking asshole.
You miss out on a print at cost? Cry me a fucking river
no one is entitled to limited release expensive pictures from famous artists. I did exactly what you describe 10 years ago. Flipped a bunch of stuff (thx Shep, Mondo and Mr Brainwash!) and bought an unsigned love rat in 2011 for ยฃ1100. flip away. The people that get salty just want something for below market prices. Luxury items. Luxury items. Luxury items. End thread. If you're flipping bread after buying out the baker when everyone else has none and are hungry you are a fucking asshole. You miss out on a print at cost? Cry me a fucking river |
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Fะฏ
Full Member
๐จ๏ธ 8,264
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May 2013
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by Fะฏ on May 5, 2021 21:38:19 GMT 1, no one is entitled to limited release expensive pictures from famous artists. I did exactly what you describe 10 years ago. Flipped a bunch of stuff (thx Shep, Mondo and Mr Brainwash!) and bought an unsigned love rat in 2011 for ยฃ1100. flip away. The people that get salty just want something for below market prices. Luxury items. Luxury items. Luxury items. End thread. If you're flipping bread after buying out the baker when everyone else has none and are hungry you are a fucking asshole. You miss out on a print at cost? Cry me a fucking river
Or bog roll. 2020 was testing
no one is entitled to limited release expensive pictures from famous artists. I did exactly what you describe 10 years ago. Flipped a bunch of stuff (thx Shep, Mondo and Mr Brainwash!) and bought an unsigned love rat in 2011 for ยฃ1100. flip away. The people that get salty just want something for below market prices. Luxury items. Luxury items. Luxury items. End thread. If you're flipping bread after buying out the baker when everyone else has none and are hungry you are a fucking asshole. You miss out on a print at cost? Cry me a fucking river Or bog roll. 2020 was testing |
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sandworm
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 144
๐๐ป 151
February 2021
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by sandworm on May 5, 2021 21:40:15 GMT 1, Luxury items. Luxury items. Luxury items. End thread. If you're flipping bread after buying out the baker when everyone else has none and are hungry you are a fucking asshole. You miss out on a print at cost? Cry me a fucking river Or bog roll. 2020 was testing
Luxury items. Luxury items. Luxury items. End thread. If you're flipping bread after buying out the baker when everyone else has none and are hungry you are a fucking asshole. You miss out on a print at cost? Cry me a fucking river Or bog roll. 2020 was testing Bog roll with a Damien Hirst signature... surprised it doesn't exist really! |
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by That Print Guy on May 5, 2021 21:40:43 GMT 1, Luxury items. Luxury items. Luxury items. End thread. If you're flipping bread after buying out the baker when everyone else has none and are hungry you are a fucking asshole. You miss out on a print at cost? Cry me a fucking river Or bog roll. 2020 was testing
haha I had to look that up but yes, those people were assholes, no pun intended
Luxury items. Luxury items. Luxury items. End thread. If you're flipping bread after buying out the baker when everyone else has none and are hungry you are a fucking asshole. You miss out on a print at cost? Cry me a fucking river Or bog roll. 2020 was testing haha I had to look that up but yes, those people were assholes, no pun intended |
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sandworm
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 144
๐๐ป 151
February 2021
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by sandworm on May 5, 2021 22:22:17 GMT 1, haha I had to look that up but yes, those people were assholes, no pun intended According to some people here it's "capitalism" and it's totally acceptable
Would appreciate if you didnโt put words into my mouth...
It is indeed a free market and governed by the laws of supply and demand. That is not to say itโs morally correct, acceptable or favourable behaviour.
haha I had to look that up but yes, those people were assholes, no pun intended According to some people here it's "capitalism" and it's totally acceptable Would appreciate if you didnโt put words into my mouth... It is indeed a free market and governed by the laws of supply and demand. That is not to say itโs morally correct, acceptable or favourable behaviour. |
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mose
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 410
๐๐ป 424
May 2017
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by mose on May 5, 2021 22:33:34 GMT 1, I've posted in these discussions on this forum before and my opinion is unpopular (LOL). But, I appreciate flippers and like their presence in the market.
Why? Because if all of the, say, concert tickets or prints or whatever, went to 'true fans', and I didn't get lucky at the initial release, then I would never be able to see that show/own that print. With resellers in the market, I can almost always access anything as long as I find the premium acceptable.
I've posted in these discussions on this forum before and my opinion is unpopular (LOL). But, I appreciate flippers and like their presence in the market.
Why? Because if all of the, say, concert tickets or prints or whatever, went to 'true fans', and I didn't get lucky at the initial release, then I would never be able to see that show/own that print. With resellers in the market, I can almost always access anything as long as I find the premium acceptable.
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by Coach on May 5, 2021 23:05:18 GMT 1, I've posted in these discussions on this forum before and my opinion is unpopular (LOL). But, I appreciate flippers and like their presence in the market. Why? Because if all of the, say, concert tickets or prints or whatever, went to 'true fans', and I didn't get lucky at the initial release, then I would never be able to see that show/own that print. With resellers in the market, I can almost always access anything as long as I find the premium acceptable.
The problem with such a premise is that itโs rather self centred, if I may be so bold.
It assumes that one can always afford the secondary price.
For many the chance to purchase something is lost once the print can only be bought secondary as it becomes unaffordable.
It is rather telling that most artists hate flipping.
They know that someone else is making a quick pound on the back of their creativity.
I've posted in these discussions on this forum before and my opinion is unpopular (LOL). But, I appreciate flippers and like their presence in the market. Why? Because if all of the, say, concert tickets or prints or whatever, went to 'true fans', and I didn't get lucky at the initial release, then I would never be able to see that show/own that print. With resellers in the market, I can almost always access anything as long as I find the premium acceptable. The problem with such a premise is that itโs rather self centred, if I may be so bold. It assumes that one can always afford the secondary price. For many the chance to purchase something is lost once the print can only be bought secondary as it becomes unaffordable. It is rather telling that most artists hate flipping. They know that someone else is making a quick pound on the back of their creativity. |
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by Down The Rabbit Hole on May 6, 2021 12:24:38 GMT 1, This seems like a weighted question.
I have been called a flipper for reselling a work I didn't like at cost so....
This seems like a weighted question.
I have been called a flipper for reselling a work I didn't like at cost so....
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irl1
Full Member
๐จ๏ธ 9,274
๐๐ป 9,381
December 2017
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by irl1 on May 6, 2021 12:33:19 GMT 1, This seems like a weighted question. I have been called a flipper for reselling a work I didn't like at cost so....
So..... Bump the price up 
This seems like a weighted question. I have been called a flipper for reselling a work I didn't like at cost so.... So..... Bump the price up |
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by Down The Rabbit Hole on May 6, 2021 12:38:58 GMT 1, That would make sense... 
That would make sense... |
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moron
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,711
๐๐ป 1,051
September 2017
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by moron on May 7, 2021 12:53:53 GMT 1, Nothing wrong with flipping considering that the secondary market bricks and mortar auction world is all about hyping and flipping in cahoots with big galleries and dealers and has been for decades.
There is probably something to say about all the dealers hiding on this forum pretending to be individuals and who get together with others on this forum to create a demand for whatever stock they bought.
When does a flipper on this forum become a dealer? How many flips does it take?
Nothing wrong with flipping considering that the secondary market bricks and mortar auction world is all about hyping and flipping in cahoots with big galleries and dealers and has been for decades.
There is probably something to say about all the dealers hiding on this forum pretending to be individuals and who get together with others on this forum to create a demand for whatever stock they bought.
When does a flipper on this forum become a dealer? How many flips does it take?
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ABC
Artist
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 5,533
๐๐ป 1,923
August 2006
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by ABC on May 20, 2021 22:10:53 GMT 1, I don't think any words people type will change minds on this subject
Could try "what three words"?
Type in banksy artwork and you get ///line.quiet.flops
I don't think any words people type will change minds on this subject Could try "what three words"? Type in banksy artwork and you get ///line.quiet.flops |
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Hairbland
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,946
๐๐ป 2,740
November 2010
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by Hairbland on May 20, 2021 22:37:44 GMT 1, The โFlippingโ threads are a bunch of Sea Lion $hit being thrown like monkey poo on Groundhog Day.
The โFlippingโ threads are a bunch of Sea Lion $hit being thrown like monkey poo on Groundhog Day.
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kalm
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,005
๐๐ป 356
November 2010
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by kalm on May 21, 2021 0:47:13 GMT 1, I was taught from a young age that usury is forbidden. Some people werenโt.
I was taught from a young age that usury is forbidden. Some people werenโt.
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NYart
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,221
๐๐ป 844
January 2016
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by NYart on May 21, 2021 1:06:48 GMT 1, Iโm not a liberal in most senses of the word, but those with an issue against flipping reek of privilege.
I became interested in art, specifically street art after watching exit through the gift shop. On my blue collar manufacturing salary, I decided to splurge and grab a pair of Obey prints for resale, along with a MBW spray can sitting in stock. It quickly became clear, if I wanted to pursue collecting I would need to sell as much as I bought to fund the hobby. I started flipping the occasional print, to fund the occasional purchase that I really wanted for myself. It got to the point where the occasional Obey flip, or GP flip wasnโt enough and I branched out into shoes, shoes turned into coins, cards, collectibles. I now have a collection I really enjoy, and am proud of.
If I were in the position where my only issue was how much I had to pay for the print I wanted - not how I was going to fund it, Iโd be in a good place. I understand the frustration of paying resale when I couldโve gotten lucky - or put in the extra time and effort and got it at retail. Sure there are some art flippers who have no interest in art itself, just as I have no interest in some of the other stuff I flip to buy art. But at the end of the day weโre all playing the same game. If you feel all high and mighty because you can afford to not sell anything until itโs worth more than the median yearly income, maybe take a minute to reflect on your good fortune. I love a lot of pieces in my collection, but even the piece I had commissioned for my wedding has a price, because Iโm not well off enough for there not to be a price.
Iโm not a liberal in most senses of the word, but those with an issue against flipping reek of privilege.
I became interested in art, specifically street art after watching exit through the gift shop. On my blue collar manufacturing salary, I decided to splurge and grab a pair of Obey prints for resale, along with a MBW spray can sitting in stock. It quickly became clear, if I wanted to pursue collecting I would need to sell as much as I bought to fund the hobby. I started flipping the occasional print, to fund the occasional purchase that I really wanted for myself. It got to the point where the occasional Obey flip, or GP flip wasnโt enough and I branched out into shoes, shoes turned into coins, cards, collectibles. I now have a collection I really enjoy, and am proud of.
If I were in the position where my only issue was how much I had to pay for the print I wanted - not how I was going to fund it, Iโd be in a good place. I understand the frustration of paying resale when I couldโve gotten lucky - or put in the extra time and effort and got it at retail. Sure there are some art flippers who have no interest in art itself, just as I have no interest in some of the other stuff I flip to buy art. But at the end of the day weโre all playing the same game. If you feel all high and mighty because you can afford to not sell anything until itโs worth more than the median yearly income, maybe take a minute to reflect on your good fortune. I love a lot of pieces in my collection, but even the piece I had commissioned for my wedding has a price, because Iโm not well off enough for there not to be a price.
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NYart
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,221
๐๐ป 844
January 2016
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by NYart on May 21, 2021 1:31:38 GMT 1, Iโm not a liberal in most senses of the word, but those with an issue against flipping reek of privilege. I became interested in art, specifically street art after watching exit through the gift shop. On my blue collar manufacturing salary, I decided to splurge and grab a pair of Obey prints for resale, along with a Mr Brainwash spray can sitting in stock. It quickly became clear, if I wanted to pursue collecting I would need to sell as much as I bought to fund the hobby. I started flipping the occasional print, to fund the occasional purchase that I really wanted for myself. It got to the point where the occasional Obey flip, or GP flip wasnโt enough and I branched out into shoes, shoes turned into coins, cards, collectibles. I now have a collection I really enjoy, and am proud of. If I were in the position where my only issue was how much I had to pay for the print I wanted - not how I was going to fund it, Iโd be in a good place. I understand the frustration of paying resale when I couldโve gotten lucky - or put in the extra time and effort and got it at retail. Sure there are some art flippers who have no interest in art itself, just as I have no interest in some of the other stuff I flip to buy art. But at the end of the day weโre all playing the same game. If you feel all high and mighty because you can afford to not sell anything until itโs worth more than the median yearly income, maybe take a minute to reflect on your good fortune. I love a lot of pieces in my collection, but even the piece I had commissioned for my wedding has a price, because Iโm not well off enough for there not to be a price. I'm sorry, but those who profit off flipping reek of privilege. If I'm in a meeting when a Shepard Fairey print is released, I will have to pay more than release because of flippers. If I'm on site with a customer when concert tickets are released, I will have to pay more because of flippers. In both cases, if flippers didn't exist, I would have a much better position to purchase both items for retail cost instead having to spend more of money because someone who had no interest in either item happened to buy it first and is now trying to exploit a profit while doing literally nothing. The end result is going be the prices of goods will rise because the original source is losing out on what the market is willing to pay. .. Which will then negatively impact the flippers and the end consumer in the long term. So good job, because you're going to price yourself out what funded your collection in the long term.
Flippers donโt set the price, the buyers do. Have you seen what happens when supply exceeds demand? One of my favorite Obey prints and Iโd argue best from the last couple years, โFan the Flamesโ I actually managed to buy BELOW COST. Crazy huh? No just because eBay was completely flooded by resellers. On the other hand, you can have a very poor release, resell for the high because not many ended up in flippers hands. Itโs supply and demand, you cant blame flippers any more than collectors who are willing to pay their prices. If they truly have no interest in the art, they can and will sell below cost if need be to get rid of it. Along with which, if that happened frequently enough theyโd leave art alone. Obey releases at 1 EST on Tuesdayโs and Thursdayโs, I am always at work during that time. If Iโm privileged that Iโm able to set an alarm on my phone to take a break and go for it, Iโm sorry, your right. You are extremely oppressed that youโre stuck with a client and forced to pay resale because of it.
Iโm not a liberal in most senses of the word, but those with an issue against flipping reek of privilege. I became interested in art, specifically street art after watching exit through the gift shop. On my blue collar manufacturing salary, I decided to splurge and grab a pair of Obey prints for resale, along with a Mr Brainwash spray can sitting in stock. It quickly became clear, if I wanted to pursue collecting I would need to sell as much as I bought to fund the hobby. I started flipping the occasional print, to fund the occasional purchase that I really wanted for myself. It got to the point where the occasional Obey flip, or GP flip wasnโt enough and I branched out into shoes, shoes turned into coins, cards, collectibles. I now have a collection I really enjoy, and am proud of. If I were in the position where my only issue was how much I had to pay for the print I wanted - not how I was going to fund it, Iโd be in a good place. I understand the frustration of paying resale when I couldโve gotten lucky - or put in the extra time and effort and got it at retail. Sure there are some art flippers who have no interest in art itself, just as I have no interest in some of the other stuff I flip to buy art. But at the end of the day weโre all playing the same game. If you feel all high and mighty because you can afford to not sell anything until itโs worth more than the median yearly income, maybe take a minute to reflect on your good fortune. I love a lot of pieces in my collection, but even the piece I had commissioned for my wedding has a price, because Iโm not well off enough for there not to be a price. I'm sorry, but those who profit off flipping reek of privilege. If I'm in a meeting when a Shepard Fairey print is released, I will have to pay more than release because of flippers. If I'm on site with a customer when concert tickets are released, I will have to pay more because of flippers. In both cases, if flippers didn't exist, I would have a much better position to purchase both items for retail cost instead having to spend more of money because someone who had no interest in either item happened to buy it first and is now trying to exploit a profit while doing literally nothing. The end result is going be the prices of goods will rise because the original source is losing out on what the market is willing to pay. .. Which will then negatively impact the flippers and the end consumer in the long term. So good job, because you're going to price yourself out what funded your collection in the long term. Flippers donโt set the price, the buyers do. Have you seen what happens when supply exceeds demand? One of my favorite Obey prints and Iโd argue best from the last couple years, โFan the Flamesโ I actually managed to buy BELOW COST. Crazy huh? No just because eBay was completely flooded by resellers. On the other hand, you can have a very poor release, resell for the high because not many ended up in flippers hands. Itโs supply and demand, you cant blame flippers any more than collectors who are willing to pay their prices. If they truly have no interest in the art, they can and will sell below cost if need be to get rid of it. Along with which, if that happened frequently enough theyโd leave art alone. Obey releases at 1 EST on Tuesdayโs and Thursdayโs, I am always at work during that time. If Iโm privileged that Iโm able to set an alarm on my phone to take a break and go for it, Iโm sorry, your right. You are extremely oppressed that youโre stuck with a client and forced to pay resale because of it. |
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by Daniel Silk on May 21, 2021 1:48:37 GMT 1, Isnโt it set deliberately by the Artists themselves? Because they sell at well below the true market value for their work, knowing the flipper demand will be high, helping to create the hype and panic buying, that are all good to boost an artists career for future releases.
Imagine Banksy first sold his prints for ยฃ500each, rather than ยฃ50, do you think he would be as famous today? I doubt it, I would imagine he would have sold none, and things would never had taken off. Example, I remember when Signed Banksy Prints were ยฃ150 from POW, and they told me how hardly anyone wanted to buy them at that price.
Isnโt it set deliberately by the Artists themselves? Because they sell at well below the true market value for their work, knowing the flipper demand will be high, helping to create the hype and panic buying, that are all good to boost an artists career for future releases.
Imagine Banksy first sold his prints for ยฃ500each, rather than ยฃ50, do you think he would be as famous today? I doubt it, I would imagine he would have sold none, and things would never had taken off. Example, I remember when Signed Banksy Prints were ยฃ150 from POW, and they told me how hardly anyone wanted to buy them at that price.
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NYart
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,221
๐๐ป 844
January 2016
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by NYart on May 21, 2021 2:01:13 GMT 1, Isnโt it set deliberately by the Artists themselves? Because they sell at well below the true market value for their work, knowing the flipper demand will be high, helping to create the hype and panic buying, that are all good to boost an artists career for future releases. Imagine Banksy first sold his prints for ยฃ500each, rather than ยฃ50, do you think he would be as famous today? I doubt it, I would imagine he would have sold none, and things would never had taken off. Example, I remember when Signed Banksy Prints were ยฃ150 from POW, and they told me how hardly anyone wanted to buy them at that price.
If you look at Pejac, no one would argue he isnโt extremely talented. The main argument against him is that his management has set his retail prices at the true market value, and people are turned off by it. No matter how much you love the art, no one wants to buy anything for significant amount (to them) of money if it is potentially a poor investment. I donโt mind spending a couple hundred on something I may not get my money back as long as I can enjoy it for a few years. But when you hit a certain point, surely different for all of us, you want some assurance it wonโt be a complete loss.
Isnโt it set deliberately by the Artists themselves? Because they sell at well below the true market value for their work, knowing the flipper demand will be high, helping to create the hype and panic buying, that are all good to boost an artists career for future releases. Imagine Banksy first sold his prints for ยฃ500each, rather than ยฃ50, do you think he would be as famous today? I doubt it, I would imagine he would have sold none, and things would never had taken off. Example, I remember when Signed Banksy Prints were ยฃ150 from POW, and they told me how hardly anyone wanted to buy them at that price. If you look at Pejac, no one would argue he isnโt extremely talented. The main argument against him is that his management has set his retail prices at the true market value, and people are turned off by it. No matter how much you love the art, no one wants to buy anything for significant amount (to them) of money if it is potentially a poor investment. I donโt mind spending a couple hundred on something I may not get my money back as long as I can enjoy it for a few years. But when you hit a certain point, surely different for all of us, you want some assurance it wonโt be a complete loss. |
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NYart
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,221
๐๐ป 844
January 2016
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by NYart on May 21, 2021 2:09:13 GMT 1, If you look at Pejac, no one would argue he isnโt extremely talented. The main argument against him is that his management has set his retail prices at the true market value, and people are turned off by it. No matter how much you love the art, no one wants to buy anything for significant amount (to them) of money if it is potentially a poor investment. I donโt mind spending a couple hundred on something I may not get my money back as long as I can enjoy it for a few years. But when you hit a certain point, surely different for all of us, you want some assurance it wonโt be a complete loss. Exactly. How many Hirst pieces did you pick up at 3k each to flip?
I bought 2.. the plan was flip one to pay for the second. I sold the first with nearly enough profit to cover the cost of the second. Now looking at the market Iโm probably going to sell the one I intended on keeping, simply because with those funds I can buy something else Iโd enjoy more ๐คท๐ปโโ๏ธ. Are you upset you were in meetings that entire week, and forced to pay resale?
If you look at Pejac, no one would argue he isnโt extremely talented. The main argument against him is that his management has set his retail prices at the true market value, and people are turned off by it. No matter how much you love the art, no one wants to buy anything for significant amount (to them) of money if it is potentially a poor investment. I donโt mind spending a couple hundred on something I may not get my money back as long as I can enjoy it for a few years. But when you hit a certain point, surely different for all of us, you want some assurance it wonโt be a complete loss. Exactly. How many Hirst pieces did you pick up at 3k each to flip? I bought 2.. the plan was flip one to pay for the second. I sold the first with nearly enough profit to cover the cost of the second. Now looking at the market Iโm probably going to sell the one I intended on keeping, simply because with those funds I can buy something else Iโd enjoy more ๐คท๐ปโโ๏ธ. Are you upset you were in meetings that entire week, and forced to pay resale? |
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by Daniel Silk on May 21, 2021 3:21:20 GMT 1, Isnโt it set deliberately by the Artists themselves? Because they sell at well below the true market value for their work, knowing the flipper demand will be high, helping to create the hype and panic buying, that are all good to boost an artists career for future releases. Imagine Banksy first sold his prints for ยฃ500each, rather than ยฃ50, do you think he would be as famous today? I doubt it, I would imagine he would have sold none, and things would never had taken off. Example, I remember when Signed Banksy Prints were ยฃ150 from POW, and they told me how hardly anyone wanted to buy them at that price. If you look at Pejac, no one would argue he isnโt extremely talented. The main argument against him is that his management has set his retail prices at the true market value, and people are turned off by it. No matter how much you love the art, no one wants to buy anything for significant amount (to them) of money if it is potentially a poor investment. I donโt mind spending a couple hundred on something I may not get my money back as long as I can enjoy it for a few years. But when you hit a certain point, surely different for all of us, you want some assurance it wonโt be a complete loss.
Isnโt it set deliberately by the Artists themselves? Because they sell at well below the true market value for their work, knowing the flipper demand will be high, helping to create the hype and panic buying, that are all good to boost an artists career for future releases. Imagine Banksy first sold his prints for ยฃ500each, rather than ยฃ50, do you think he would be as famous today? I doubt it, I would imagine he would have sold none, and things would never had taken off. Example, I remember when Signed Banksy Prints were ยฃ150 from POW, and they told me how hardly anyone wanted to buy them at that price. If you look at Pejac, no one would argue he isnโt extremely talented. The main argument against him is that his management has set his retail prices at the true market value, and people are turned off by it. No matter how much you love the art, no one wants to buy anything for significant amount (to them) of money if it is potentially a poor investment. I donโt mind spending a couple hundred on something I may not get my money back as long as I can enjoy it for a few years. But when you hit a certain point, surely different for all of us, you want some assurance it wonโt be a complete loss. True, itโs a difficult balancing act for Artists and their Galleries. I just find it sad when I hear Artists complaining about Flippers, when they themselves are in control of the Print release prices and the profitability for the Flippers. |
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moron
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,711
๐๐ป 1,051
September 2017
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by moron on Jun 10, 2021 23:45:01 GMT 1, Flipping on this forum entails people working together as a group/s exchanging private messages and creating a so called demand by individuals who are all working together. Dealers hiding their identities for obvious reasons and also on other platforms like whats app facebook private groups or whatever.
Flipping on this forum entails people working together as a group/s exchanging private messages and creating a so called demand by individuals who are all working together. Dealers hiding their identities for obvious reasons and also on other platforms like whats app facebook private groups or whatever.
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Icesay
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,427
๐๐ป 1,796
March 2010
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by Icesay on Jun 12, 2021 21:09:18 GMT 1, Shitest thread on here. If you buy art just to sell for more money then there literally is nothing good to say about that. No artist in the world wants to make you richer. They may appreciate the hype but they will feel dirty and hate themselves. Gotta make a living, leeches can be good but only for medicinal purposes.
Shitest thread on here. If you buy art just to sell for more money then there literally is nothing good to say about that. No artist in the world wants to make you richer. They may appreciate the hype but they will feel dirty and hate themselves. Gotta make a living, leeches can be good but only for medicinal purposes.
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dirtypete
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 182
๐๐ป 258
September 2006
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by dirtypete on Jun 12, 2021 22:17:30 GMT 1, Isnโt it set deliberately by the Artists themselves? Because they sell at well below the true market value for their work, knowing the flipper demand will be high, helping to create the hype and panic buying, that are all good to boost an artists career for future releases. Imagine Banksy first sold his prints for ยฃ500each, rather than ยฃ50, do you think he would be as famous today? I doubt it, I would imagine he would have sold none, and things would never had taken off. Example, I remember when Signed Banksy Prints were ยฃ150 from POW, and they told me how hardly anyone wanted to buy them at that price.
Flipping used to really annoy me and I quit the scene for ages, but I realised that itโs an unfortunate part of the art scene.
If people are going to flip I just wished theyโd own the decision rather than give some BS story, which seems to have become an art form in itself on this forum over the last few years. I strongly disagree with pump and dump strategies which harm artists livelihood or ripoff genuine fans. Iโve also noticed people talking down releases only to buy them and flip.
Isnโt it set deliberately by the Artists themselves? Because they sell at well below the true market value for their work, knowing the flipper demand will be high, helping to create the hype and panic buying, that are all good to boost an artists career for future releases. Imagine Banksy first sold his prints for ยฃ500each, rather than ยฃ50, do you think he would be as famous today? I doubt it, I would imagine he would have sold none, and things would never had taken off. Example, I remember when Signed Banksy Prints were ยฃ150 from POW, and they told me how hardly anyone wanted to buy them at that price. I remember when I brought my original prints that they felt like really expensive posters. I just couldnโt work out why someone would pay an extra ยฃ100 for a pencil signature, especially as it let me buy two more images. Flipping used to really annoy me and I quit the scene for ages, but I realised that itโs an unfortunate part of the art scene. If people are going to flip I just wished theyโd own the decision rather than give some BS story, which seems to have become an art form in itself on this forum over the last few years. I strongly disagree with pump and dump strategies which harm artists livelihood or ripoff genuine fans. Iโve also noticed people talking down releases only to buy them and flip. |
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by Coach on Jun 12, 2021 22:53:59 GMT 1, Shitest thread on here. If you buy art just to sell for more money then there literally is nothing good to say about that. No artist in the world wants to make you richer. They may appreciate the hype but they will feel dirty and hate themselves. Gotta make a living, leeches can be good but only for medicinal purposes.
Spot on. We all need to sell from time to time. But buying art just to sell on at a profit is parasitical. Making money from the creativity of someone else. Iโm glad Iโm not the only one here that still thinks this.
Shitest thread on here. If you buy art just to sell for more money then there literally is nothing good to say about that. No artist in the world wants to make you richer. They may appreciate the hype but they will feel dirty and hate themselves. Gotta make a living, leeches can be good but only for medicinal purposes. Spot on. We all need to sell from time to time. But buying art just to sell on at a profit is parasitical. Making money from the creativity of someone else. Iโm glad Iโm not the only one here that still thinks this. |
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artnow
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 253
๐๐ป 173
April 2017
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by artnow on Jun 13, 2021 0:08:20 GMT 1, I'm hoping to open up a discussion on flipping art, having only been on the forum for a couple of months I've noticed a big resistance and at times hostility towards people flipping recent releases for a quick profit. Firstly, I agree with the philosophy art should be enjoyed, hung on the wall and bring enjoyment for years to the owner and I don't wish for it to become purely an investment vehicle for people with no interest in the art itself. However.... Much of the artists who's work I admire from names such as Hirst, Banksy, Harland Miller, Warhol, Miro, Indiana, Haring etc. are at a price point which is unobtainable for me at present. Imagine for the sake of illustration my budget permits ยฃ500 per month of art purchases and I desire to purchase a Banksy print currently selling for ยฃ50k.ย This would require saving that ยฃ500 a month for approximately 8 years to reach the ยฃ50k required for the purchase, at which point the print has appreciated and is now worth ยฃ100k, back to the drawing board and the saving cycle continues with no art to enjoy in the mean time. To me as a young collector just getting started with my collection the art market feels comparable to the housing market, where the generation before me enjoyed huge returns on their properties which now enable them to buy and sell at that price level with relative ease. The same goes for those who began collecting art 10-20 years ago and perhaps had a number of Banksy prints or similar in their collection. The solution for me to allow me to break into the exclusive 'Banksy club' is to invest in some lower value releases from the likes of Shrigley, Connor Brothers etc. which can be enjoyed in the interim and if required sold very quickly due to their mass market appeal. These pieces act as stepping stone to the artists / pieces which I really desire. I appreciate that this results in rapid price inflation at the 'low' end of the market with some ultra quick flippers immediately listing a print available only an hour earlier from source with 100% profit on-top.ย I've never actually sold one piece from my collection, but watching recent releases etc. It really is starting to feel like the only way I am ever going to break into my desired area of the market is to start to engage in the philosophy of "If you can't beat them, join them!" Really keen to hear people's thoughts and have a discussion around this!
Free advice.......
Buy what you like and can afford. Sell it if you donโt like it anymore or need the money.
I'm hoping to open up a discussion on flipping art, having only been on the forum for a couple of months I've noticed a big resistance and at times hostility towards people flipping recent releases for a quick profit. Firstly, I agree with the philosophy art should be enjoyed, hung on the wall and bring enjoyment for years to the owner and I don't wish for it to become purely an investment vehicle for people with no interest in the art itself. However.... Much of the artists who's work I admire from names such as Hirst, Banksy, Harland Miller, Warhol, Miro, Indiana, Haring etc. are at a price point which is unobtainable for me at present. Imagine for the sake of illustration my budget permits ยฃ500 per month of art purchases and I desire to purchase a Banksy print currently selling for ยฃ50k.ย This would require saving that ยฃ500 a month for approximately 8 years to reach the ยฃ50k required for the purchase, at which point the print has appreciated and is now worth ยฃ100k, back to the drawing board and the saving cycle continues with no art to enjoy in the mean time. To me as a young collector just getting started with my collection the art market feels comparable to the housing market, where the generation before me enjoyed huge returns on their properties which now enable them to buy and sell at that price level with relative ease. The same goes for those who began collecting art 10-20 years ago and perhaps had a number of Banksy prints or similar in their collection. The solution for me to allow me to break into the exclusive 'Banksy club' is to invest in some lower value releases from the likes of Shrigley, Connor Brothers etc. which can be enjoyed in the interim and if required sold very quickly due to their mass market appeal. These pieces act as stepping stone to the artists / pieces which I really desire. I appreciate that this results in rapid price inflation at the 'low' end of the market with some ultra quick flippers immediately listing a print available only an hour earlier from source with 100% profit on-top.ย I've never actually sold one piece from my collection, but watching recent releases etc. It really is starting to feel like the only way I am ever going to break into my desired area of the market is to start to engage in the philosophy of "If you can't beat them, join them!" Really keen to hear people's thoughts and have a discussion around this! Free advice....... Buy what you like and can afford. Sell it if you donโt like it anymore or need the money. |
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binky
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 44
๐๐ป 40
March 2013
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by binky on Jun 13, 2021 19:52:02 GMT 1, Flip it / fuck it / no one cares/
Flip it / fuck it / no one cares/
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Icesay
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,427
๐๐ป 1,796
March 2010
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by Icesay on Jun 13, 2021 21:13:57 GMT 1, Flip it / fuck it / no one cares/
Actually some people do. You don't, which is clear. Another valuable insight on the forum
Flip it / fuck it / no one cares/ Actually some people do. You don't, which is clear. Another valuable insight on the forum |
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binky
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 44
๐๐ป 40
March 2013
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Flipping Art โข The Debate, by binky on Jun 13, 2021 21:15:50 GMT 1, The embrace of the banksy forum as warm as it ever was
The embrace of the banksy forum as warm as it ever was
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