Agree with you to a point, but, I suspect most collectors, including most here (not speaking for anyone here - just what I suspect to be the case) want to know what they have is the genuine article, so buying a cheap copy from ebay is ok if you know thats all you want, but if I found out that one of my Banksy's was a fake, I would be gutted, and would probably not want it hanging on my wall - would fell like it was tarnished - so imo, image is not everything, knowing something is genuine, and signed by Banksy himself, does mean something. That said, the image is what we buy for - or else we wouldnt be collecting in the first place. Make any sense? I've had a few!
As always, peace
c

Thanks brad - feared it may have been one of my usual wine fueled splurges!

Interesting you should say that, because I do look at page three for that very speech bubble. It cracks me up.

I kind of get where you are coming from but if there where no material desires no artist would shift any prints (everybody wants a real print not a copy

I guess what I'm trying to ask, is how much time can elapse before it is considered ok to sell a piece?

there is a lot of discussion on here about the detrimental effect of flipping, but it does seem to still carry on without a great deal of comment or criticism.

what is the difference between selling an item the day of release for an increased value or waiting for six months+, just to do exactly the same thing? Does it become more acceptable to sell things if you've held on to them for a specified amount of time?

everyone seems to be quick to point fingers when it comes to flipping as soon as something comes out, but surely essentially the same thing just to keep it in the 'portfolio' with a doubtful intention to ever really keep it, only to sell for a profit.

there is always the argument (one which i personally disagree with) that buying pieces that you know will increase in value, allows the seller to buy something that they would previously be unable to afford.

flipping bothers me, but not a huge amount as the sort of pieces which go for 1k+ will always be out of my price range, plus i feel that even secondary market prices on here, from the majority of members are always fair and allows me to buy pieces that I wasn't able to at release.

still, just interested to hear other people's opinions, and to avoid too much aggro, I'd like to propose a lockdown on name calling and finger pointing in advance...

see here for an example of textbook flipping for all the new comers....
urbanartassociation.com/index.cgi?board=ebaychat&action=display&thread=69457

I've started to accept flipping & flippers. It's part of the game. If there wouldn't be any money involved there wouldn't be any flippers.

You also have to accept that Art & Money is not dissociable today (or for most people). When you start paying consistently at least £300 or £400 per print, you have to think that what you have is worth something (or would still be worth something someday). Unless you're multi millionaire & that kind of money doesn't represent anything for you. I don't say that it's all about the money because it's not but if you would really like an Image you could have it print it yourself or buy a poster not the real thing.

After, flippers thinks that whatever they buy there will be someone who is ready to overpay straight away (which doesn't always makes sense but whatever). I'm not sure in the end that even artists raise the release price it will still kill people from buying. As the idea behind flipping is that you can sell it higher straight away (ok if the prices are unrealistic nobody will buy). It will be interesting to see the elasticity of price for Banksy prints. Could be quite interesting?

I get the idea why people hate flippers. They think that it deprive them to acquire at a price they were ready to spend for something they wanted. The often don't want to pay the same item at premium straight away.

I think the difference between hold/sell & straight sell is the idea behind it. When you hold/sell, it still means that you liked what you buy & you think that it will sell for more at a later date (which basically means that you believe in the artist). When you flip, you doesn't care about who the artist is, the only thing that push you to buy is instant profit. The content of what you buy doesn't matter really matter to you.

It's a bit the same with basic investment theories. What's the difference between short term speculation & long term investment as both involves the idea of making money.

After I have another opinion about flipping. I guess that it's not beneficial for the artist. It just push people to short term speculation. Basically, you don't care what the artist will become. Your interest is only in the moment which by extent means that you don't have any respect for the artist. It really joins what short term speculation involves for a company. Creating a bubble never really helps.

Flipping is buying with the sole intention of selling for profit straight away. I'm inclined to say that within a couple of months would be considered a short amount of time.

I would also say that, like others have said, its part of the scene, and that there are far worse things to worry about in life than flippers.

tend to agree with you hlarmy, but I once bought a print (k-guy coke moss) that I though I'd liked enough to frame immediatly after arrival. But when I got it I saw (to be honest, within a minute) that it just wasnt what I expected; solely due to the difference in an image on my laptop screen and the real thing. I sold the piece pretty soon after I bought it and got the honour of receiving some very unfriendly PMs from people on here..

Its a fact, Banksy wouldn't be where he's at without flipping!

Unfortunately quite true, that is too expensive and out of reach for many of those who really appreciate and want his work to hang on the wall and look at. However Banksy would still be admired and acknowledged for his work by those who do appreciate it just as much as it is now.

Maybe you are getting the value of his work mixed up with the financial side of things and not the contribution to the diversity of art?

I couldn't have articulated my view more clearly than brushstrokes75 just did ;-)

Who really cares! Its part of the scene has been from the start... what I find worse is what happened in the CYW release people getting aggressive because they felt they where ow'd a piece of paper. That I believe is wrong, if you lose out online or via lottery, then so be it. Getting physical is a different matter.... in the end who really cares, its a bit of paper.

basically when you buy something with your own money. you are allowed to do what ever the f$%@ you want to with it; whenever. Doesnt matter how pissed we are or how bummed another is about missing out. It sucks sometimes but what are you going to do. Now the term flipping is selling something that is highly in demand shortly after purchase. So who cares, its only art. Sure its frustrating at times but I have taken on a more zen approach to try and not get worked up anymore. If its something that great, i will find a way to obtain