BONZO
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February 2007
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Banksy Rat Mural in NYC - New York, by BONZO on Oct 1, 2008 12:37:41 GMT 1, According to the Gothamist the new NYC rat is, i quote: "Streetart lovers, rejoice: the Colossal Media / Banksy collaboration that we spotted yesterday on the corner of Grand and Wooster is now complete. [Photo by Jake Dobkin.]"
gothamist.com/2008/09/28/banksy_loves_new_york_the_completed.php
www.colossalmedia.net/
interesting!?!?
Sorry if this is old news...
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elwheel
Junior Member
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September 2008
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Banksy Rat Mural in NYC - New York, by elwheel on Oct 1, 2008 12:38:57 GMT 1, I agree doublehelix. Warhol, Riley, Hirst, Koons...
I agree doublehelix. Warhol, Riley, Hirst, Koons...
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Banksy Rat Mural in NYC - New York, by Deleted on Oct 1, 2008 13:20:37 GMT 1,
neither link says or proves a thing. I want to know as much as anybody else. Its a bit boring now to be honest.
neither link says or proves a thing. I want to know as much as anybody else. Its a bit boring now to be honest. |
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Banksy Rat Mural in NYC - New York, by Deleted on Oct 1, 2008 13:35:48 GMT 1, If however it is by the man himself then I don't agree that it doesn't matter that he didnt paint it either. Banksy has used artisans to create his work before, such as this piece:  I don't see how the NYC mural is any different. The idea that a contemporary artist post Duchamp has to craft every or any part of his work is archaic in the extreme, you're talking about craft, not art.
Thats the problem. It is not an idea that an artist should connect physically to his work, its part of what connects with me on a personal level. While I understand what you're saying intellectually I just don't feel it. It works with me to the extent that I only buy handfinished edition prints whenever possible. I will make an exception for Ravenhaired tomorrow though 
If however it is by the man himself then I don't agree that it doesn't matter that he didnt paint it either. Banksy has used artisans to create his work before, such as this piece: I don't see how the NYC mural is any different. The idea that a contemporary artist post Duchamp has to craft every or any part of his work is archaic in the extreme, you're talking about craft, not art. Thats the problem. It is not an idea that an artist should connect physically to his work, its part of what connects with me on a personal level. While I understand what you're saying intellectually I just don't feel it. It works with me to the extent that I only buy handfinished edition prints whenever possible. I will make an exception for Ravenhaired tomorrow though |
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Banksy Rat Mural in NYC - New York, by eddiedangerous on Oct 1, 2008 15:30:14 GMT 1, its nick walkers reply to painting banksy as an ape at cans.
its nick walkers reply to painting banksy as an ape at cans.
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Guy Denning
Artist
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July 2007
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Banksy Rat Mural in NYC - New York, by Guy Denning on Oct 1, 2008 16:08:24 GMT 1, If however it is by the man himself then I don't agree that it doesn't matter that he didnt paint it either. Warhol's method of 'factory' reproduction were part of the philosophy which underpinned his work. Banksy can't claim this. His work has a personal dialogue with the viewer which is central to the best street work of any artist. I dont mind people helping with colour fills on large areas, thats been going on forever. Saves valuable time when you're working illegally. BUT the work must be by the artists hand imo.
I'm with you on that aspect. It may be 'archaic' and reduce the practice to 'craft' - but is that a bad thing? The urge to stick your mark on a wall is in itself is probably equally archaic and by extension to our animal origins not significantly different than dogs p1ssing on lamp-posts. As for the argument of craft being archaic - it's BANKSY's chosen 'craft' (and others of course) to implement stencils and/or aerosols - and it's precisely that development of the chosen craft that draws us to his work.
If you take the argument to the extreme then you don't even need to have the ideas - just commission a top drawer political satirist along with a strap-line writer and aerosol artist to work out and execute their ideas and then claim the credit for putting the crew together. If you've got the money you can create the work...
I think a lot of us celebrate BANKSY specifically because he is BANKSY - the political artist; someone who provides a knee in the balls to an overpowering and out of control modern consumer society - not because he's another wannabe artistic post-modern theorist/philosopher. If it was commissioned by him then I presume (I don't know of course) that it was out of practical concerns for maintaining a degree of anonymity and not out of 'challenging existing cultural hegemonies' blah blah blah.
It's a good piece though - whoever did or didn't do it.
If however it is by the man himself then I don't agree that it doesn't matter that he didnt paint it either. Warhol's method of 'factory' reproduction were part of the philosophy which underpinned his work. Banksy can't claim this. His work has a personal dialogue with the viewer which is central to the best street work of any artist. I dont mind people helping with colour fills on large areas, thats been going on forever. Saves valuable time when you're working illegally. BUT the work must be by the artists hand imo. I'm with you on that aspect. It may be 'archaic' and reduce the practice to 'craft' - but is that a bad thing? The urge to stick your mark on a wall is in itself is probably equally archaic and by extension to our animal origins not significantly different than dogs p1ssing on lamp-posts. As for the argument of craft being archaic - it's BANKSY's chosen 'craft' (and others of course) to implement stencils and/or aerosols - and it's precisely that development of the chosen craft that draws us to his work. If you take the argument to the extreme then you don't even need to have the ideas - just commission a top drawer political satirist along with a strap-line writer and aerosol artist to work out and execute their ideas and then claim the credit for putting the crew together. If you've got the money you can create the work... I think a lot of us celebrate BANKSY specifically because he is BANKSY - the political artist; someone who provides a knee in the balls to an overpowering and out of control modern consumer society - not because he's another wannabe artistic post-modern theorist/philosopher. If it was commissioned by him then I presume (I don't know of course) that it was out of practical concerns for maintaining a degree of anonymity and not out of 'challenging existing cultural hegemonies' blah blah blah. It's a good piece though - whoever did or didn't do it. |
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Banksy Rat Mural in NYC - New York, by daz205 on Oct 1, 2008 16:10:56 GMT 1, if it is nick walker then does it mean he doent paint his stuff now either? i always thought he did ?
and just out of interest if it is banksy how do you know its not him painting it? i thought no one knew who he was or what he looked like?
if it is nick walker then does it mean he doent paint his stuff now either? i always thought he did ?
and just out of interest if it is banksy how do you know its not him painting it? i thought no one knew who he was or what he looked like?
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seidbereit
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,743
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November 2007
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Banksy Rat Mural in NYC - New York, by seidbereit on Oct 1, 2008 16:31:43 GMT 1, I thought Banksy's normal MO was to work behind a screened scaffold on larger pieces with the work only revealed once he was a safe distance away. With that in mind - and just assuming it is indeed a Banksy for the sake of argument - as there's no other clear reason for his having chosen to use commissioned artists this time (rather than hide behind screened scaffolding), he must have had some motive for changing his MO in such a publicly visible manner.
I still have the feeling it's been done to cast a reasonable doubt over the ultimate producer of his street works to stick one to Vermin where the thinking may be that a street piece - if it has all the clever hallmarks of a good Banksy (and is indeed designed by him to have precisely these features) - can, and will, still be enjoyed by all who view it, but will simultaneously be less vulnerable to theft (as it's documented that he only designed it rather than executed it), and therefore cannot possibly be authenticated by any third party for sale purposes.
I thought Banksy's normal MO was to work behind a screened scaffold on larger pieces with the work only revealed once he was a safe distance away. With that in mind - and just assuming it is indeed a Banksy for the sake of argument - as there's no other clear reason for his having chosen to use commissioned artists this time (rather than hide behind screened scaffolding), he must have had some motive for changing his MO in such a publicly visible manner.
I still have the feeling it's been done to cast a reasonable doubt over the ultimate producer of his street works to stick one to Vermin where the thinking may be that a street piece - if it has all the clever hallmarks of a good Banksy (and is indeed designed by him to have precisely these features) - can, and will, still be enjoyed by all who view it, but will simultaneously be less vulnerable to theft (as it's documented that he only designed it rather than executed it), and therefore cannot possibly be authenticated by any third party for sale purposes.
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lee3
New Member
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November 2009
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Banksy Rat Mural in NYC - New York, by lee3 on Oct 1, 2008 16:42:13 GMT 1, Here is the first of the October annoucements I'm looking forward to...
phish.com/videosplash/
Now give me the second.
Here is the first of the October annoucements I'm looking forward to... phish.com/videosplash/Now give me the second. |
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Guy Denning
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July 2007
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Banksy Rat Mural in NYC - New York, by Guy Denning on Oct 1, 2008 16:44:13 GMT 1, I still have the feeling it's been done to cast a reasonable doubt over the ultimate producer of his street works to stick one to Vermin where the thinking may be that a street piece - if it has all the clever hallmarks of a good Banksy (and is indeed designed by him to have precisely these features) - can, and will, still be enjoyed by all who view it, but will simultaneously be less vulnerable to theft (as it's documented that he only designed it rather than executed it), and therefore cannot possibly be authenticated by any third party for sale purposes.
If that is the case then it's a legitimate reason for a 'genuine' BANKSY to be carried out in this fashion. Like you've said it is odd that the work is being seen to be done by someone else - and the design certainly seems right.
The only reason I stuck my oar in was because there were near approximations of BANKSY with the workings of other self-presumed 'workshop masters' like Koons etc...
Perhaps were over-analysing!
I still have the feeling it's been done to cast a reasonable doubt over the ultimate producer of his street works to stick one to Vermin where the thinking may be that a street piece - if it has all the clever hallmarks of a good Banksy (and is indeed designed by him to have precisely these features) - can, and will, still be enjoyed by all who view it, but will simultaneously be less vulnerable to theft (as it's documented that he only designed it rather than executed it), and therefore cannot possibly be authenticated by any third party for sale purposes. If that is the case then it's a legitimate reason for a 'genuine' BANKSY to be carried out in this fashion. Like you've said it is odd that the work is being seen to be done by someone else - and the design certainly seems right. The only reason I stuck my oar in was because there were near approximations of BANKSY with the workings of other self-presumed 'workshop masters' like Koons etc... Perhaps were over-analysing! |
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
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Banksy Rat Mural in NYC - New York, by Deleted on Oct 1, 2008 16:47:58 GMT 1, I thought Banksy's normal MO was to work behind a screened scaffold on larger pieces with the work only revealed once he was a safe distance away. With that in mind - and just assuming it is indeed a Banksy for the sake of argument - as there's no other clear reason for his having chosen to use commissioned artists this time (rather than hide behind screened scaffolding), he must have had some motive for changing his MO in such a publicly visible manner. I still have the feeling it's been done to cast a reasonable doubt over the ultimate producer of his street works to stick one to Vermin where the thinking may be that a street piece - if it has all the clever hallmarks of a good Banksy (and is indeed designed by him to have precisely these features) - can, and will, still be enjoyed by all who view it, but will simultaneously be less vulnerable to theft (as it's documented that he only designed it rather than executed it), and therefore cannot possibly be authenticated by any third party for sale purposes.
Good grief........Its Banksy not Kierkegaard ;D
I thought Banksy's normal MO was to work behind a screened scaffold on larger pieces with the work only revealed once he was a safe distance away. With that in mind - and just assuming it is indeed a Banksy for the sake of argument - as there's no other clear reason for his having chosen to use commissioned artists this time (rather than hide behind screened scaffolding), he must have had some motive for changing his MO in such a publicly visible manner. I still have the feeling it's been done to cast a reasonable doubt over the ultimate producer of his street works to stick one to Vermin where the thinking may be that a street piece - if it has all the clever hallmarks of a good Banksy (and is indeed designed by him to have precisely these features) - can, and will, still be enjoyed by all who view it, but will simultaneously be less vulnerable to theft (as it's documented that he only designed it rather than executed it), and therefore cannot possibly be authenticated by any third party for sale purposes. Good grief........Its Banksy not Kierkegaard ;D |
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Guy Denning
Artist
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July 2007
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Banksy Rat Mural in NYC - New York, by Guy Denning on Oct 1, 2008 16:56:47 GMT 1, Good grief........Its Banksy not Kierkegaard ;D
;D Firkin' ace!
Good grief........Its Banksy not Kierkegaard ;D ;D Firkin' ace! |
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seidbereit
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,743
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November 2007
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Banksy Rat Mural in NYC - New York, by seidbereit on Oct 1, 2008 18:37:39 GMT 1, I thought Banksy's normal MO was to work behind a screened scaffold on larger pieces with the work only revealed once he was a safe distance away. With that in mind - and just assuming it is indeed a Banksy for the sake of argument - as there's no other clear reason for his having chosen to use commissioned artists this time (rather than hide behind screened scaffolding), he must have had some motive for changing his MO in such a publicly visible manner. I still have the feeling it's been done to cast a reasonable doubt over the ultimate producer of his street works to stick one to Vermin where the thinking may be that a street piece - if it has all the clever hallmarks of a good Banksy (and is indeed designed by him to have precisely these features) - can, and will, still be enjoyed by all who view it, but will simultaneously be less vulnerable to theft (as it's documented that he only designed it rather than executed it), and therefore cannot possibly be authenticated by any third party for sale purposes. Good grief........Its Banksy not Kierkegaard ;D
Heh heh 
You do alright, MikeeP!
I thought Banksy's normal MO was to work behind a screened scaffold on larger pieces with the work only revealed once he was a safe distance away. With that in mind - and just assuming it is indeed a Banksy for the sake of argument - as there's no other clear reason for his having chosen to use commissioned artists this time (rather than hide behind screened scaffolding), he must have had some motive for changing his MO in such a publicly visible manner. I still have the feeling it's been done to cast a reasonable doubt over the ultimate producer of his street works to stick one to Vermin where the thinking may be that a street piece - if it has all the clever hallmarks of a good Banksy (and is indeed designed by him to have precisely these features) - can, and will, still be enjoyed by all who view it, but will simultaneously be less vulnerable to theft (as it's documented that he only designed it rather than executed it), and therefore cannot possibly be authenticated by any third party for sale purposes. Good grief........Its Banksy not Kierkegaard ;D Heh heh You do alright, MikeeP! |
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Banksy Rat Mural in NYC - New York, by onemandown72 on Oct 1, 2008 18:57:23 GMT 1, I thought Banksy's normal MO was to work behind a screened scaffold on larger pieces with the work only revealed once he was a safe distance away. With that in mind - and just assuming it is indeed a Banksy for the sake of argument - as there's no other clear reason for his having chosen to use commissioned artists this time (rather than hide behind screened scaffolding), he must have had some motive for changing his MO in such a publicly visible manner. I still have the feeling it's been done to cast a reasonable doubt over the ultimate producer of his street works to stick one to Vermin where the thinking may be that a street piece - if it has all the clever hallmarks of a good Banksy (and is indeed designed by him to have precisely these features) - can, and will, still be enjoyed by all who view it, but will simultaneously be less vulnerable to theft (as it's documented that he only designed it rather than executed it), and therefore cannot possibly be authenticated by any third party for sale purposes.
I'm in 2 minds about this. I can certinaly see that if you look at how Banksy hs exectued his work, it does have all the hall marks of a big f*ck you, by commissioning a massive street piece, in one of the most famous cities in the world, that it appears he hasn't actually done himself.
Yet I also have some doubts, I imagine that to arrange this sort of work would need quite some planning. If it was a 2 fingers up at vermin this doens't seem to fit into the timeline, and maybe for Banksy it's a pleasant coincidence.
But I do think that it's a shame if it is Banksy, and he hasn't been on site to lend a hand, now clearly I haven't a clue as I'm in England and not New York, and have no idea who Banksy is. But I also imagine that the guys from Colossal media are well known, and the beauty of Banksy's work has been the fact it has sprung up unnannounced and you could always believe that Banksy had a huge part in sticking the work up on the street. For me that takes some of the gloss off the work. Part of his skill was his ability to get these amazing & interesting pieces up in all sorts of places. Yet that doesn't seem to be the case here
I thought Banksy's normal MO was to work behind a screened scaffold on larger pieces with the work only revealed once he was a safe distance away. With that in mind - and just assuming it is indeed a Banksy for the sake of argument - as there's no other clear reason for his having chosen to use commissioned artists this time (rather than hide behind screened scaffolding), he must have had some motive for changing his MO in such a publicly visible manner. I still have the feeling it's been done to cast a reasonable doubt over the ultimate producer of his street works to stick one to Vermin where the thinking may be that a street piece - if it has all the clever hallmarks of a good Banksy (and is indeed designed by him to have precisely these features) - can, and will, still be enjoyed by all who view it, but will simultaneously be less vulnerable to theft (as it's documented that he only designed it rather than executed it), and therefore cannot possibly be authenticated by any third party for sale purposes. I'm in 2 minds about this. I can certinaly see that if you look at how Banksy hs exectued his work, it does have all the hall marks of a big f*ck you, by commissioning a massive street piece, in one of the most famous cities in the world, that it appears he hasn't actually done himself. Yet I also have some doubts, I imagine that to arrange this sort of work would need quite some planning. If it was a 2 fingers up at vermin this doens't seem to fit into the timeline, and maybe for Banksy it's a pleasant coincidence. But I do think that it's a shame if it is Banksy, and he hasn't been on site to lend a hand, now clearly I haven't a clue as I'm in England and not New York, and have no idea who Banksy is. But I also imagine that the guys from Colossal media are well known, and the beauty of Banksy's work has been the fact it has sprung up unnannounced and you could always believe that Banksy had a huge part in sticking the work up on the street. For me that takes some of the gloss off the work. Part of his skill was his ability to get these amazing & interesting pieces up in all sorts of places. Yet that doesn't seem to be the case here |
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Banksy Rat Mural in NYC - New York, by ricosg11 on Oct 1, 2008 19:16:45 GMT 1, Its great to see some new work goin up. Its just an evolution, no need to get your panties in bunches.
Its great to see some new work goin up. Its just an evolution, no need to get your panties in bunches.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Banksy Rat Mural in NYC - New York, by Deleted on Oct 1, 2008 20:53:14 GMT 1, Good grief........Its Banksy not Kierkegaard ;D Heh heh You do alright, MikeeP!
And you Seidbereit are a proper gent 
Good grief........Its Banksy not Kierkegaard ;D Heh heh You do alright, MikeeP! And you Seidbereit are a proper gent |
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Banksy Rat Mural in NYC - New York, by icky on Oct 1, 2008 22:16:54 GMT 1, i can promise you all this ISNT a banks
Do you know this / think this / guess this?
i can promise you all this ISNT a banks Do you know this / think this / guess this? |
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oneeye
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 900
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July 2007
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Banksy Rat Mural in NYC - New York, by oneeye on Oct 2, 2008 4:30:07 GMT 1, Clearly, he guesses this.
Clearly, he guesses this.
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Banksy Rat Mural in NYC - New York, by doublehelix on Oct 2, 2008 9:21:26 GMT 1, i can promise you all this ISNT a banks
i can promise you all this ISNT a banks |
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Banksy Rat Mural in NYC - New York, by manchestermike on Oct 2, 2008 9:45:53 GMT 1, I think he (hero) may have a point... the more I think about it the less I think it's a Banksy.
MBW maybe?
I think he (hero) may have a point... the more I think about it the less I think it's a Banksy.
MBW maybe?
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Banksy Rat Mural in NYC - New York, by doublehelix on Oct 2, 2008 9:51:56 GMT 1, Have you seen the new one Mike?
Have you seen the new one Mike?
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Banksy Rat Mural in NYC - New York, by manchestermike on Oct 2, 2008 9:57:29 GMT 1, Have you seen the new one Mike?
I have indeed, it seems all too obvious to me. If it is a Banksy, I'm not sure I like this new direction... I still keep thinking maybe MBW or even a multinational advertising campaign rather than Mr B
Have you seen the new one Mike? I have indeed, it seems all too obvious to me. If it is a Banksy, I'm not sure I like this new direction... I still keep thinking maybe MBW or even a multinational advertising campaign rather than Mr B |
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Banksy Rat Mural in NYC - New York, by doublehelix on Oct 2, 2008 9:59:06 GMT 1, Time will tell.
Time will tell.
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Banksy Rat Mural in NYC - New York, by manchestermike on Oct 2, 2008 10:02:47 GMT 1,
Indeed, and I'm probably wrong... it just doesn't feel like a Banksy... you don't get the excitement of seeing a new one for the first time with it, it feels contrived and forced rather than spontaneous like his work (although meticulously planned always seems to me). If it is Mr B then I dunno... it just seems wrong
Indeed, and I'm probably wrong... it just doesn't feel like a Banksy... you don't get the excitement of seeing a new one for the first time with it, it feels contrived and forced rather than spontaneous like his work (although meticulously planned always seems to me). If it is Mr B then I dunno... it just seems wrong |
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Banksy Rat Mural in NYC - New York, by doublehelix on Oct 2, 2008 10:11:54 GMT 1, The words of 'A Little Bird' come to my mind, about how Mr B has pretty much been forced to stop putting up the little rats as they are all yoinked, (including the recent NOLA one). I though this might have been his way of getting back to the rats which he's very find of, as well as putting 2 fingers up to those who like to yoink his art off walls for a quick and easy profit.
The words of 'A Little Bird' come to my mind, about how Mr B has pretty much been forced to stop putting up the little rats as they are all yoinked, (including the recent NOLA one). I though this might have been his way of getting back to the rats which he's very find of, as well as putting 2 fingers up to those who like to yoink his art off walls for a quick and easy profit.
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Banksy Rat Mural in NYC - New York, by manchestermike on Oct 2, 2008 10:16:59 GMT 1, The words of 'A Little Bird' come to my mind, about how Mr B has pretty much been forced to stop putting up the little rats as they are all yoinked, (including the recent NOLA one). I though this might have been his way of getting back to the rats which he's very find of, as well as putting 2 fingers up to those who like to yoink his art off walls for a quick and easy profit.
Agreed, it may well be... still feels wrong to me 
The words of 'A Little Bird' come to my mind, about how Mr B has pretty much been forced to stop putting up the little rats as they are all yoinked, (including the recent NOLA one). I though this might have been his way of getting back to the rats which he's very find of, as well as putting 2 fingers up to those who like to yoink his art off walls for a quick and easy profit. Agreed, it may well be... still feels wrong to me |
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Banksy Rat Mural in NYC - New York, by doublehelix on Oct 2, 2008 10:41:26 GMT 1, "David Choe, an artist represented by Lazarides Galleries, which also handles Banksyโs art, identified the murals as Banskyโs."
Taken from an article in the New York Times:
www.nytimes.com/2008/10/02/arts/design/02bank.html
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Banksy Rat Mural in NYC - New York, by manchestermike on Oct 2, 2008 10:56:00 GMT 1, There you go... I'm disappointed though, it's just unBanksy
There you go... I'm disappointed though, it's just unBanksy |
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Banksy Rat Mural in NYC - New York, by mammal2 on Oct 2, 2008 11:08:52 GMT 1, I think they look great. Can't wait to see them for myself.
I think they look great. Can't wait to see them for myself.
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seidbereit
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,743
๐๐ป 5
November 2007
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Banksy Rat Mural in NYC - New York, by seidbereit on Oct 2, 2008 11:28:42 GMT 1, Indeed, and I'm probably wrong... it just doesn't feel like a Banksy... you don't get the excitement of seeing a new one for the first time with it, it feels contrived and forced rather than spontaneous like his work (although meticulously planned always seems to me). If it is Mr B then I dunno... it just seems wrong
That lack of sponteneity is something I've also noticed too, but it's probably more down to watching them going up in stages (which is a very weird experience) and the fact that they're being executed by commissioned artists.
Someone posted something a couple of pages back with the definition of the word "advert" and the more I think about it the more I now understand why. It's quite likely these are a Banksy alternative to having posters printed for his runoured shows.
Indeed, and I'm probably wrong... it just doesn't feel like a Banksy... you don't get the excitement of seeing a new one for the first time with it, it feels contrived and forced rather than spontaneous like his work (although meticulously planned always seems to me). If it is Mr B then I dunno... it just seems wrong That lack of sponteneity is something I've also noticed too, but it's probably more down to watching them going up in stages (which is a very weird experience) and the fact that they're being executed by commissioned artists. Someone posted something a couple of pages back with the definition of the word "advert" and the more I think about it the more I now understand why. It's quite likely these are a Banksy alternative to having posters printed for his runoured shows. |
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