fuzzed
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April 2008
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Banksy Rat Mural in NYC - New York, by fuzzed on Oct 2, 2008 11:57:57 GMT 1, There you go... I'm disappointed though, it's just unBanksy 
Agree with you there Mike, be interested to see what his motives are for these murals.
There you go... I'm disappointed though, it's just unBanksy Agree with you there Mike, be interested to see what his motives are for these murals. |
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BK83
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,604
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October 2006
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Banksy Rat Mural in NYC - New York, by BK83 on Oct 2, 2008 18:03:47 GMT 1, Interesting discussion has developed as a result of these recent Banksy pieces in NY.
I am absolutely amazed at some people's responses to this not being a "Banksy" just because he did not execute it -- By virtue of this thinking, all your Banksy screenprints are utterly worthless as Banksy had absolutely zero involvement in making those.
I'm also extremely surprised at peoples naivety with regards to the art world. Major established artists very rarely have a hand in their own work. You must understand, everyone and everything is a brand (even you yourself are a brand! - You are your own brand, you are selling yourself every day - for a new job, for a new g/f, etc.). Galleries and investors have hugely vested interests artists. Artists are constantly on deadline to create art and show art at galleries worldwide. Henceforth it is vital that a consistent quality, message and quantity of art is met. Artists have quotas to fill just as a business has inventory to fill.
Unfortunately, too many on here are not looking at art for what it really is - a business.
This is by all accounts the work of Banksy. I spoke with a few of the Lazarides team at the Outsiders Show before I went down to photograph the First Banksy going up. They confirmed he was in town and that it was absolutely his work. I haven't posted that until now because I know the Lazarides Gallery posts on here and I did not want to get anyone in trouble -- I never suspected that I would need to because it was clearly the work of Banksy - who knew there were so many doubters on this board?!
Interesting discussion has developed as a result of these recent Banksy pieces in NY.
I am absolutely amazed at some people's responses to this not being a "Banksy" just because he did not execute it -- By virtue of this thinking, all your Banksy screenprints are utterly worthless as Banksy had absolutely zero involvement in making those.
I'm also extremely surprised at peoples naivety with regards to the art world. Major established artists very rarely have a hand in their own work. You must understand, everyone and everything is a brand (even you yourself are a brand! - You are your own brand, you are selling yourself every day - for a new job, for a new g/f, etc.). Galleries and investors have hugely vested interests artists. Artists are constantly on deadline to create art and show art at galleries worldwide. Henceforth it is vital that a consistent quality, message and quantity of art is met. Artists have quotas to fill just as a business has inventory to fill.
Unfortunately, too many on here are not looking at art for what it really is - a business.
This is by all accounts the work of Banksy. I spoke with a few of the Lazarides team at the Outsiders Show before I went down to photograph the First Banksy going up. They confirmed he was in town and that it was absolutely his work. I haven't posted that until now because I know the Lazarides Gallery posts on here and I did not want to get anyone in trouble -- I never suspected that I would need to because it was clearly the work of Banksy - who knew there were so many doubters on this board?!
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oneeye
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 900
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July 2007
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Banksy Rat Mural in NYC - New York, by oneeye on Oct 2, 2008 18:23:58 GMT 1, Of course it's Banksy! Who else would it be?
Of course it's Banksy! Who else would it be?
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Carnage NYC
New Member
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July 2007
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Banksy Rat Mural in NYC - New York, by Carnage NYC on Oct 2, 2008 18:26:00 GMT 1, It's finished (more here):
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Banksy Rat Mural in NYC - New York, by mammal2 on Oct 2, 2008 18:29:19 GMT 1, cool. dont get it..
cool. dont get it..
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fuzzed
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,446
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April 2008
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Banksy Rat Mural in NYC - New York, by fuzzed on Oct 2, 2008 18:52:52 GMT 1, Never said it wasn't a banksy, just that it's unbanksy and a change from his normal style, obviously. Would love to see them in the flesh.
Never said it wasn't a banksy, just that it's unbanksy and a change from his normal style, obviously. Would love to see them in the flesh.
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Banksy Rat Mural in NYC - New York, by rosstierney on Oct 2, 2008 18:56:35 GMT 1, EST KATSU?
EST KATSU?
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Banksy Rat Mural in NYC - New York, by onemandown72 on Oct 2, 2008 19:04:02 GMT 1, Interesting discussion has developed as a result of these recent Banksy pieces in NY. I am absolutely amazed at some people's responses to this not being a "Banksy" just because he did not execute it -- By virtue of this thinking, all your Banksy screenprints are utterly worthless as Banksy had absolutely zero involvement in making those. I'm also extremely surprised at peoples naivety with regards to the art world. Major established artists very rarely have a hand in their own work. You must understand, everyone and everything is a brand (even you yourself are a brand! - You are your own brand, you are selling yourself every day - for a new job, for a new g/f, etc.). Galleries and investors have hugely vested interests artists. Artists are constantly on deadline to create art and show art at galleries worldwide. Henceforth it is vital that a consistent quality, message and quantity of art is met. Artists have quotas to fill just as a business has inventory to fill. Unfortunately, too many on here are not looking at art for what it really is - a business. quote] From my point of view it is the way that Banksy (if this is him) has worked, which has led to the disappointment. When I buy a screenprint, I am more than aware I am buying a limited edition reproduction of his image, nothing more nothing less. And clearly the way that the art market (as in any) is that price reflects this, the more input from the artist, the rarer, the more valuable and therefore more expensive (Hirst a great case in point with the cost of his sketches at his recent Sotheby's auction). With Banksy's street work, until this point, a huge part of the charm is exactly because you have believed that he was working on the piece himself. Everytime I used to see a change to the piece on the bridge opposite Shoreditch Town Hall, I'd chuckle at the new image, and love the fact that he'd got up there and done something else again. With this new work in NY it is blatently obvious that he himself hasn't done any of the execution (unless he was one of the gusy from collossal media). For me Banksy's work is more than just a fantastically simple image. It's the context, and the fact that he's done it, and how he's managed to do it. It's all rolled into together and for me is part of the whole. Now I'm sure some will think - load of b*llocks great piece of art just enjoy. Absoutely fair enough, just my take on this.
Interesting discussion has developed as a result of these recent Banksy pieces in NY. I am absolutely amazed at some people's responses to this not being a "Banksy" just because he did not execute it -- By virtue of this thinking, all your Banksy screenprints are utterly worthless as Banksy had absolutely zero involvement in making those. I'm also extremely surprised at peoples naivety with regards to the art world. Major established artists very rarely have a hand in their own work. You must understand, everyone and everything is a brand (even you yourself are a brand! - You are your own brand, you are selling yourself every day - for a new job, for a new g/f, etc.). Galleries and investors have hugely vested interests artists. Artists are constantly on deadline to create art and show art at galleries worldwide. Henceforth it is vital that a consistent quality, message and quantity of art is met. Artists have quotas to fill just as a business has inventory to fill. Unfortunately, too many on here are not looking at art for what it really is - a business. quote] From my point of view it is the way that Banksy (if this is him) has worked, which has led to the disappointment. When I buy a screenprint, I am more than aware I am buying a limited edition reproduction of his image, nothing more nothing less. And clearly the way that the art market (as in any) is that price reflects this, the more input from the artist, the rarer, the more valuable and therefore more expensive (Hirst a great case in point with the cost of his sketches at his recent Sotheby's auction). With Banksy's street work, until this point, a huge part of the charm is exactly because you have believed that he was working on the piece himself. Everytime I used to see a change to the piece on the bridge opposite Shoreditch Town Hall, I'd chuckle at the new image, and love the fact that he'd got up there and done something else again. With this new work in NY it is blatently obvious that he himself hasn't done any of the execution (unless he was one of the gusy from collossal media). For me Banksy's work is more than just a fantastically simple image. It's the context, and the fact that he's done it, and how he's managed to do it. It's all rolled into together and for me is part of the whole. Now I'm sure some will think - load of b*llocks great piece of art just enjoy. Absoutely fair enough, just my take on this. |
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dotdot
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 3,658
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December 2006
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Banksy Rat Mural in NYC - New York, by dotdot on Oct 2, 2008 19:05:06 GMT 1,
ditto dude.
eat as in - well you canโt smoke can you ?
touch of rouge on the culpritโs paw helps.
..so will there be more. ?
I do believe the "ok it wasnโt him" - but like Jay said "thats kind of the
point" - is that not pretty obvious ? tis here.
hope the irony isnโt lost.
Its a rat of epic proportions in the big apple.
Generally theyโre pretty tiny over here - more food to eat methinks 
ditto dude. eat as in - well you canโt smoke can you ? touch of rouge on the culpritโs paw helps. ..so will there be more. ? I do believe the "ok it wasnโt him" - but like Jay said "thats kind of the point" - is that not pretty obvious ? tis here. hope the irony isnโt lost. Its a rat of epic proportions in the big apple. Generally theyโre pretty tiny over here - more food to eat methinks |
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Banksy Rat Mural in NYC - New York, by bradpitt on Oct 2, 2008 19:17:50 GMT 1, Maybe a reference to the dirty players on the stock market and the trouble they have been allowed to cause in the economy, with no kind of policing. Or something like that.
Maybe a reference to the dirty players on the stock market and the trouble they have been allowed to cause in the economy, with no kind of policing. Or something like that.
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Banksy Rat Mural in NYC - New York, by ricosg11 on Oct 2, 2008 19:19:15 GMT 1, Everyone is entitled to their point of view but fact is...Hirst, Koons, Murakami, Faile...ect havent done a lot of their own painting/printing for quite some time. Just the way it is.
I slighted Banksy for a while, even after the great deed the ghetto was, but the New Orleans stuff coupled with these NYC works has really changed my view.
Everyone is entitled to their point of view but fact is...Hirst, Koons, Murakami, Faile...ect havent done a lot of their own painting/printing for quite some time. Just the way it is.
I slighted Banksy for a while, even after the great deed the ghetto was, but the New Orleans stuff coupled with these NYC works has really changed my view.
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Banksy Rat Mural in NYC - New York, by ricosg11 on Oct 2, 2008 19:19:57 GMT 1, or the loans they were allowed to give out were like crack to those who bought and those who SOLD them.
or the loans they were allowed to give out were like crack to those who bought and those who SOLD them.
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Banksy Rat Mural in NYC - New York, by mammal2 on Oct 2, 2008 19:21:21 GMT 1, Maybe a reference to the dirty players on the stock market and the trouble they have been allowed to cause in the economy, with no kind of policing. Or something like that.
I get that Brad. Let them eat their cake etc. My girlfriend just said im a retard for not getting the message and made that special face. she also made a special noise.
Maybe a reference to the dirty players on the stock market and the trouble they have been allowed to cause in the economy, with no kind of policing. Or something like that. I get that Brad. Let them eat their cake etc. My girlfriend just said im a retard for not getting the message and made that special face. she also made a special noise. |
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spirit
Junior Member
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August 2007
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Banksy Rat Mural in NYC - New York, by spirit on Oct 2, 2008 19:48:30 GMT 1, Maybe a reference to the dirty players on the stock market and the trouble they have been allowed to cause in the economy, with no kind of policing. Or something like that.
My take on this is the rat is the wall street trader/banker (complete with tie, ID card and umbrella) running off with a suitcase overflowing with cash. Meanwhile the people he made his money from - main street Americans - are being kicked out of their repossessed houses and onto the streets at the rate of 8000 a day. Thus the "let them eat crack" - as that's what a lot of homeless people do.
Maybe a reference to the dirty players on the stock market and the trouble they have been allowed to cause in the economy, with no kind of policing. Or something like that. My take on this is the rat is the wall street trader/banker (complete with tie, ID card and umbrella) running off with a suitcase overflowing with cash. Meanwhile the people he made his money from - main street Americans - are being kicked out of their repossessed houses and onto the streets at the rate of 8000 a day. Thus the "let them eat crack" - as that's what a lot of homeless people do. |
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sogr8ful
New Member
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September 2008
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Banksy Rat Mural in NYC - New York, by sogr8ful on Oct 2, 2008 20:17:43 GMT 1, Of course "Let them eat cake" was supposedly what Marie Antoinette said when told her people had no bread. As the wall street market has recently been shaky at best, the rat in the business suit and "let them eat crack" seems somewhat appropriate due to all the shady misdealings that got the US economy in this mess.
Of course "Let them eat cake" was supposedly what Marie Antoinette said when told her people had no bread. As the wall street market has recently been shaky at best, the rat in the business suit and "let them eat crack" seems somewhat appropriate due to all the shady misdealings that got the US economy in this mess.
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Grubster
Junior Member
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August 2008
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Banksy Rat Mural in NYC - New York, by Grubster on Oct 2, 2008 21:46:09 GMT 1, great reference SOG!
great reference SOG!
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Guy Denning
Artist
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July 2007
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Banksy Rat Mural in NYC - New York, by Guy Denning on Oct 3, 2008 0:42:32 GMT 1, Major established artists very rarely have a hand in their own work.
Thank god I'm not a major established artist then. I work between 9 and 12 hours a day, at the very least 5 days a week and the reason I do it is because it's important to me and has been all my life. It's not a job, it's not a business... it's what I am. It might sound like a load of pretentious old c0ck, but as far as I'm concerned the artist should have more than just a 'commissioning' role in the work.
There may be very good reasons for BANKSY arranging others to do this work for him (if he is responsible) - but to justify it in the same way that the defenders of Koons, Hirst etc do (that there's a tradition of artist 'masters' producing via the workshop system going back to the Renaissance) is a cop out of mighty proportions.
It still boils down to 'do you like it?' In that case does it matter who made it? If you liked it because someone told you BANKSY did it would you change your mind if you later found out that ACME Ratkiller Co. had commissioned it?
Major established artists very rarely have a hand in their own work. Thank god I'm not a major established artist then. I work between 9 and 12 hours a day, at the very least 5 days a week and the reason I do it is because it's important to me and has been all my life. It's not a job, it's not a business... it's what I am. It might sound like a load of pretentious old c0ck, but as far as I'm concerned the artist should have more than just a 'commissioning' role in the work. There may be very good reasons for BANKSY arranging others to do this work for him (if he is responsible) - but to justify it in the same way that the defenders of Koons, Hirst etc do (that there's a tradition of artist 'masters' producing via the workshop system going back to the Renaissance) is a cop out of mighty proportions. It still boils down to 'do you like it?' In that case does it matter who made it? If you liked it because someone told you BANKSY did it would you change your mind if you later found out that ACME Ratkiller Co. had commissioned it? |
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bullet
Blank Rank
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป 16
January 2013
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Banksy Rat Mural in NYC - New York, by bullet on Oct 3, 2008 0:54:09 GMT 1, Maybe a reference to the dirty players on the stock market and the trouble they have been allowed to cause in the economy, with no kind of policing. Or something like that.
haha funny as hell.
reading into a banksy with really no clear message eh.
and you reckoned the messaging behind the new dface liberty print was shite.
says more about the clowns over there than a rat.
although i do like it.
Also im sure the people that have been on here a while will back me up on this but i must have said it around 22 times by now - banksy like many artists / designers commissions other people to do things that are quicker done by someone skilled in that trade.
i dont see what the surprise is, its still a banksy as its his idea.
Most of the stuff on the streets will not be done by him or if it is he has major help in it
Maybe a reference to the dirty players on the stock market and the trouble they have been allowed to cause in the economy, with no kind of policing. Or something like that. haha funny as hell. reading into a banksy with really no clear message eh. and you reckoned the messaging behind the new dface liberty print was shite. says more about the clowns over there than a rat. although i do like it. Also im sure the people that have been on here a while will back me up on this but i must have said it around 22 times by now - banksy like many artists / designers commissions other people to do things that are quicker done by someone skilled in that trade. i dont see what the surprise is, its still a banksy as its his idea. Most of the stuff on the streets will not be done by him or if it is he has major help in it |
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Jef Aerosol
Artist
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,320
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September 2007
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Banksy Rat Mural in NYC - New York, by Jef Aerosol on Oct 3, 2008 13:37:19 GMT 1, Major established artists very rarely have a hand in their own work. Thank god I'm not a major established artist then. I work between 9 and 12 hours a day, at the very least 5 days a week and the reason I do it is because it's important to me and has been all my life. It's not a job, it's not a business... it's what I am. It might sound like a load of pretentious old c0ck, but as far as I'm concerned the artist should have more than just a 'commissioning' role in the work. There may be very good reasons for BANKSY arranging others to do this work for him (if he is responsible) - but to justify it in the same way that the defenders of Koons, Hirst etc do (that there's a tradition of artist 'masters' producing via the workshop system going back to the Renaissance) is a cop out of mighty proportions. It still boils down to 'do you like it?' In that case does it matter who made it? If you liked it because someone told you BANKSY did it would you change your mind if you later found out that ACME Ratkiller Co. had commissioned it?
I can't agree more, Guy ! Excellent post...
Major established artists very rarely have a hand in their own work. Thank god I'm not a major established artist then. I work between 9 and 12 hours a day, at the very least 5 days a week and the reason I do it is because it's important to me and has been all my life. It's not a job, it's not a business... it's what I am. It might sound like a load of pretentious old c0ck, but as far as I'm concerned the artist should have more than just a 'commissioning' role in the work. There may be very good reasons for BANKSY arranging others to do this work for him (if he is responsible) - but to justify it in the same way that the defenders of Koons, Hirst etc do (that there's a tradition of artist 'masters' producing via the workshop system going back to the Renaissance) is a cop out of mighty proportions. It still boils down to 'do you like it?' In that case does it matter who made it? If you liked it because someone told you BANKSY did it would you change your mind if you later found out that ACME Ratkiller Co. had commissioned it? I can't agree more, Guy ! Excellent post... |
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Prescription Art
Art Gallery
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November 2007
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Banksy Rat Mural in NYC - New York, by Prescription Art on Oct 3, 2008 17:02:39 GMT 1, LOL
LOL |
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Prescription Art
Art Gallery
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 3,146
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November 2007
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Banksy Rat Mural in NYC - New York, by Prescription Art on Oct 3, 2008 17:04:54 GMT 1, oh sorry, that was posted already. I assumed someone had added that later as it's not in banksy's writing, but of course he didn't write it anyway. Anyway, it's pretty funny.
oh sorry, that was posted already. I assumed someone had added that later as it's not in banksy's writing, but of course he didn't write it anyway. Anyway, it's pretty funny.
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timba82
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,592
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March 2008
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Banksy Rat Mural in NYC - New York, by timba82 on Oct 3, 2008 20:16:42 GMT 1, the new one finished is absolutely jaw droppingly awesome!!
mr b absolutely smashed it with his direction and requirements for the piece
the new one finished is absolutely jaw droppingly awesome!!
mr b absolutely smashed it with his direction and requirements for the piece
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Banksy Rat Mural in NYC - New York, by snowflake8888 on Oct 4, 2008 1:52:27 GMT 1, I agree with sogr8ful. I love the image it's now on my office desktop
I agree with sogr8ful. I love the image it's now on my office desktop
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Banksy Rat Mural in NYC - New York, by leumasdarnley on Oct 4, 2008 1:56:59 GMT 1, Heading there tomorrow see if anything new has popped up... pics to follow
Heading there tomorrow see if anything new has popped up... pics to follow
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becksaboo
New Member
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March 2007
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Banksy Rat Mural in NYC - New York, by becksaboo on Oct 4, 2008 23:15:21 GMT 1, For me this is def a banksy because there are so many characteristics there. Subject matter being a wry commentary on the current political situation, the subtle historical context, the size of it, rats...
I love both of them, but then I always love the rats. The first one is classic because you can read into it so many things - it could be a comment of people trying to authenticate his work which therefore forces the question which everyone here is asking: does it matter that he didn't do the final image with his bare hands? what 'value' does this have?
I also think it's clever in that if it's about self-awareness, then it's also a commentary on people always trying to figure out who he is etc. This is also a reference to the election - does America really know who or what it is / stands for? Which direction should they go in?? The big rat represents to me a big, fat greedy America / bankers.
Also, and this is what I love the most about this image, is that it's a reference to the first examples of graffiti - cavemen drawings. He has used this motif before at cans to great effect and I think he's achieved the same here.
The second one I like because I think it's a fantastic commentary on the bailout. It's a great way of pointing out the greed which has taken over the banking world and ended up with the situation we're in now.
This particular image I don't care that he didn't do it because of its size and the ironic statement it makes. It's his idea afterall and I think the most important thing is for the image to be out there rather than who did it. I'm sure if he could do it himself without the hassle of getting caught, he would.
If it was a straight up stencil which we all appreciate he's the master of, then perhaps I would feel slightly differently.
Essay over.
For me this is def a banksy because there are so many characteristics there. Subject matter being a wry commentary on the current political situation, the subtle historical context, the size of it, rats...
I love both of them, but then I always love the rats. The first one is classic because you can read into it so many things - it could be a comment of people trying to authenticate his work which therefore forces the question which everyone here is asking: does it matter that he didn't do the final image with his bare hands? what 'value' does this have?
I also think it's clever in that if it's about self-awareness, then it's also a commentary on people always trying to figure out who he is etc. This is also a reference to the election - does America really know who or what it is / stands for? Which direction should they go in?? The big rat represents to me a big, fat greedy America / bankers.
Also, and this is what I love the most about this image, is that it's a reference to the first examples of graffiti - cavemen drawings. He has used this motif before at cans to great effect and I think he's achieved the same here.
The second one I like because I think it's a fantastic commentary on the bailout. It's a great way of pointing out the greed which has taken over the banking world and ended up with the situation we're in now.
This particular image I don't care that he didn't do it because of its size and the ironic statement it makes. It's his idea afterall and I think the most important thing is for the image to be out there rather than who did it. I'm sure if he could do it himself without the hassle of getting caught, he would.
If it was a straight up stencil which we all appreciate he's the master of, then perhaps I would feel slightly differently.
Essay over.
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Banksy Rat Mural in NYC - New York, by ejvaze on Oct 5, 2008 2:00:05 GMT 1,
V good Becks Spot on
A picture is worth a thousand words ;D
V good Becks Spot on A picture is worth a thousand words ;D |
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funster
Junior Member
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October 2006
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Banksy Rat Mural in NYC - New York, by funster on Oct 5, 2008 2:47:06 GMT 1, It's good to see Banksy back in such a manner.
It's good to see Banksy back in such a manner.
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Grubster
Junior Member
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August 2008
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Banksy Rat Mural in NYC - New York, by Grubster on Oct 5, 2008 4:45:39 GMT 1, he's bigger than BIG and will continue to be that way! He is always 1 step ahead of urban/street art and the progress behind it. Thanks yo artist like him we can further expand other artist message through art! in this case, making street art more credible! Word Up Banks, sooo illl
he's bigger than BIG and will continue to be that way! He is always 1 step ahead of urban/street art and the progress behind it. Thanks yo artist like him we can further expand other artist message through art! in this case, making street art more credible! Word Up Banks, sooo illl
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becksaboo
New Member
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March 2007
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Banksy Rat Mural in NYC - New York, by becksaboo on Oct 5, 2008 11:54:50 GMT 1, cheers vazie.
Thinking about it a bit more, I doubt it's about him as I don't think he's that self-absorbed to a massive piece just about him (other than the pollard street one but that was class)
He's just like the simpsons - multiple meanings!
I think that's why he's streets ahead of everyone else, as their work to me tends to be one-dimensional in terms of message and that tends to make the image flat whereas banksy's always (part the street pieces) many different levels which can be read it so many different ways so it never gets boring.
That's the difference between being an artist and a graphic designer.
cheers vazie.
Thinking about it a bit more, I doubt it's about him as I don't think he's that self-absorbed to a massive piece just about him (other than the pollard street one but that was class)
He's just like the simpsons - multiple meanings!
I think that's why he's streets ahead of everyone else, as their work to me tends to be one-dimensional in terms of message and that tends to make the image flat whereas banksy's always (part the street pieces) many different levels which can be read it so many different ways so it never gets boring.
That's the difference between being an artist and a graphic designer.
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