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Banksy Links, by monochrome on May 31, 2006 21:30:16 GMT 1, Apologies - I misunderstood. thought the £3500 was Laz. It's not
Apologies - I misunderstood. thought the £3500 was Laz. It's not
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Banksy Links, by guerillaart on May 31, 2006 22:09:44 GMT 1, I bought one of the artist proofs from Lazinc before he put his prices up, mine is number 21 of 31 and is (rather poorly) signed '05.
I think it is definitely a way of making more money from a print which is sold out, especially as the original print was a 2003 or 2004 image. I only bought mine because I have never seen a signed original BME for sale and I just love the print.
Whether one is worth 3.5k is another matter although I would definitely value a signed BME at MORE than the artist proofs Lazinc is selling.
I bought one of the artist proofs from Lazinc before he put his prices up, mine is number 21 of 31 and is (rather poorly) signed '05.
I think it is definitely a way of making more money from a print which is sold out, especially as the original print was a 2003 or 2004 image. I only bought mine because I have never seen a signed original BME for sale and I just love the print.
Whether one is worth 3.5k is another matter although I would definitely value a signed BME at MORE than the artist proofs Lazinc is selling.
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retep
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Banksy Links, by retep on May 31, 2006 22:21:54 GMT 1, This is very interesting guys. I was wondering myself what exactly is the definition of artists proof? I know that the BME a/p's are a different colour from the original, so maybe that makes it ok.
but as far as I can see the Have a Nice Day a/p's are exactly the same as the original (although there are 2 versions of the original). is this correct?
This is very interesting guys. I was wondering myself what exactly is the definition of artists proof? I know that the BME a/p's are a different colour from the original, so maybe that makes it ok.
but as far as I can see the Have a Nice Day a/p's are exactly the same as the original (although there are 2 versions of the original). is this correct?
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Banksy Links, by numusic on May 31, 2006 22:29:20 GMT 1, This is very interesting guys. I was wondering myself what exactly is the definition of artists proof? I know that the BME a/p's are a different colour from the original, so maybe that makes it ok. but as far as I can see the Have a Nice Day a/p's are exactly the same as the original (although there are 2 versions of the original). is this correct?
It's crazy that these are going out in 05, aren't A/P's supposed to be test prints for the original issue ? different colours and examples etc ? seems they've been held back and released when the market picked up.. a tad cynical if you ask me. Might as well call em rejects, though why a reject (by the artist) would be worth twice that of a signed print I don't know.
This is very interesting guys. I was wondering myself what exactly is the definition of artists proof? I know that the BME a/p's are a different colour from the original, so maybe that makes it ok. but as far as I can see the Have a Nice Day a/p's are exactly the same as the original (although there are 2 versions of the original). is this correct? It's crazy that these are going out in 05, aren't A/P's supposed to be test prints for the original issue ? different colours and examples etc ? seems they've been held back and released when the market picked up.. a tad cynical if you ask me. Might as well call em rejects, though why a reject (by the artist) would be worth twice that of a signed print I don't know. |
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Banksy Links, by guerillaart on May 31, 2006 22:42:53 GMT 1, I don't think they're rejects, especially as mine is flawless.
I would have to say 're-print'!
I don't think they're rejects, especially as mine is flawless.
I would have to say 're-print'!
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LoveRat
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Banksy Links, by LoveRat on May 31, 2006 22:49:26 GMT 1, Artist proofs are given to the usually given to the artist by the publisher for his or her own use. Usually 10% or less of print run.
Also each proof may alter from another as it shows the work in progress to the final print.
Artist proofs are given to the usually given to the artist by the publisher for his or her own use. Usually 10% or less of print run.
Also each proof may alter from another as it shows the work in progress to the final print.
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Banksy Links, by numusic on May 31, 2006 22:55:00 GMT 1,
I don't think they're rejects, especially as mine is flawless. I would have to say 're-print'!
yeah, reject is a tad harsh perhaps.. LoveRats 'work in progress' is much better..a 'demo' in music I guess.
I don't think they're rejects, especially as mine is flawless. I would have to say 're-print'! yeah, reject is a tad harsh perhaps.. LoveRats 'work in progress' is much better..a 'demo' in music I guess.
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LoveRat
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Banksy Links, by LoveRat on May 31, 2006 22:56:19 GMT 1, Yeah would hate to think I spent over two grand on a reject... :DLOL
Yeah would hate to think I spent over two grand on a reject... :DLOL
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LoveRat
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Banksy Links, by LoveRat on May 31, 2006 23:07:29 GMT 1, This is very interesting guys. I was wondering myself what exactly is the definition of artists proof? I know that the BME a/p's are a different colour from the original, so maybe that makes it ok. but as far as I can see the Have a Nice Day a/p's are exactly the same as the original (although there are 2 versions of the original). is this correct? It's crazy that these are going out in 05, aren't A/P's supposed to be test prints for the original issue ? different colours and examples etc ? seems they've been held back and released when the market picked up.. a tad cynical if you ask me. Might as well call em rejects, though why a reject (by the artist) would be worth twice that of a signed print I don't know.
Possibly they were held back by Laz, as his agent he may have been given the a/p's and Banksy just gets a signing fee
This is very interesting guys. I was wondering myself what exactly is the definition of artists proof? I know that the BME a/p's are a different colour from the original, so maybe that makes it ok. but as far as I can see the Have a Nice Day a/p's are exactly the same as the original (although there are 2 versions of the original). is this correct? It's crazy that these are going out in 05, aren't A/P's supposed to be test prints for the original issue ? different colours and examples etc ? seems they've been held back and released when the market picked up.. a tad cynical if you ask me. Might as well call em rejects, though why a reject (by the artist) would be worth twice that of a signed print I don't know. Possibly they were held back by Laz, as his agent he may have been given the a/p's and Banksy just gets a signing fee |
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LoveRat
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Banksy Links, by LoveRat on May 31, 2006 23:09:36 GMT 1, Laz's A/P's are all subtitled thingyney rejects ;-) hey, you can't say c.o.c.k.n.e.y !
Now that is censorship!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  
Laz's A/P's are all subtitled thingyney rejects ;-) hey, you can't say c.o.c.k.n.e.y ! Now that is censorship!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Banksy Links, by numusic on May 31, 2006 23:10:45 GMT 1, hey, you can't say c.o.c.k.n.e.y ! Now that is censorship!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
b.a.s.t.a.r.d.s ;D
hey, you can't say c.o.c.k.n.e.y ! Now that is censorship!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! b.a.s.t.a.r.d.s ;D |
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Banksy Links, by monochrome on May 31, 2006 23:17:05 GMT 1, i think its worth noting that there are a few A/Ps that are different colours and as yet there is no evidence from what i've seen t say they are genuine. Isn't there some Japanese site peddling these? However the logic that these are are A/Ps stands up as they are different colours from those put on general sale.
Anyway.. I think all these prints are little uncontrolled to say the least. At least we have this site - perhaps a section on fakes would be good??
i think its worth noting that there are a few A/Ps that are different colours and as yet there is no evidence from what i've seen t say they are genuine. Isn't there some Japanese site peddling these? However the logic that these are are A/Ps stands up as they are different colours from those put on general sale.
Anyway.. I think all these prints are little uncontrolled to say the least. At least we have this site - perhaps a section on fakes would be good??
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RetroCanvas
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Banksy Links, by RetroCanvas on Jun 1, 2006 9:07:26 GMT 1, The point of an artists proof is to tweek the disign and colouring and make sure that the prints will come out cok after printing. Someone may do one proof print and like it. Someone else may be more fussy and want the colours exactly how they want. This would take more proof prints. These prints arn't made just to make more money but they are indeed not worth binning.
The point of an artists proof is to tweek the disign and colouring and make sure that the prints will come out cok after printing. Someone may do one proof print and like it. Someone else may be more fussy and want the colours exactly how they want. This would take more proof prints. These prints arn't made just to make more money but they are indeed not worth binning.
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Banksy Links, by stencilope on Jun 1, 2006 9:36:48 GMT 1, It is common for A/P's (and sometimes a relatively large number of them) to exist for a print run. It is also somewhat common for them to be at least undifferentiated from each other and sometimes even identical to the standard run.
Two things here do strike me as extremely odd, however;
First, the number of A/P's released can vary, but it is usually an extremely small percentage compared to the total edition, not a significant proportion like this.
Secondly, the number of A/P's extant is always announced at the outset of the release of the edition along with the other numbers, not appearing years later after a sellout.
That and A/P's are usually NOT released as as official product line under any circumstances, and certainly not dated year(s) after the edition run. They normally tend to trickle out on the secondary market only.
Smells fishy, but why not? The market is there now. It wasn't last year and it won't be in few more, so busting some out now makes sense. They probably just had them lying about as a few years ago they wouldn't have thought them worth doing much with. A/P is as good an excuse as any to get some more numbers out there!
I wonder if the have thought of releasing "zero" numbered prints yet? Adding , for example, 0/60 would get them yet one more of each print type out there. 
Maybe go to decimal fractions next, you know - 17.5/60? Hahahaha.
It is common for A/P's (and sometimes a relatively large number of them) to exist for a print run. It is also somewhat common for them to be at least undifferentiated from each other and sometimes even identical to the standard run. Two things here do strike me as extremely odd, however; First, the number of A/P's released can vary, but it is usually an extremely small percentage compared to the total edition, not a significant proportion like this. Secondly, the number of A/P's extant is always announced at the outset of the release of the edition along with the other numbers, not appearing years later after a sellout. That and A/P's are usually NOT released as as official product line under any circumstances, and certainly not dated year(s) after the edition run. They normally tend to trickle out on the secondary market only. Smells fishy, but why not? The market is there now. It wasn't last year and it won't be in few more, so busting some out now makes sense. They probably just had them lying about as a few years ago they wouldn't have thought them worth doing much with. A/P is as good an excuse as any to get some more numbers out there! I wonder if the have thought of releasing "zero" numbered prints yet? Adding , for example, 0/60 would get them yet one more of each print type out there. Maybe go to decimal fractions next, you know - 17.5/60? Hahahaha. |
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Banksy Links, by numusic on Jun 1, 2006 9:46:09 GMT 1, The point of an artists proof is to tweek the disign and colouring and make sure that the prints will come out cok after printing. Someone may do one proof print and like it. Someone else may be more fussy and want the colours exactly how they want. This would take more proof prints. These prints arn't made just to make more money but they are indeed not worth binning.
agreed, so let's see : one limited signed print edition of 150-350. One edition of Unsigned for 350-600. Say we get 31 A/P's before the print is exactly how the artist/agent would like the 'commercial' edition to look. So, all of these bar perhaps 1, ie :The last one, should have slight differences in colour and placement layout etc etc. Then how come a lot of these don't ?
Also, it is standard practice for the printers to run off extra, say 2-5% of a run (postal damage, slight misprints, returns, non payment etc etc). These would be identical to the actual print run. Traditionally these would either be given to the artist or destroyed after the edition is sold out. Doesn't it look like it's actually some of these that are reaching the market and being labelled a/p's ? by all accounts some of them are 'identical' to the actual commercial run. Just a thought !
The point of an artists proof is to tweek the disign and colouring and make sure that the prints will come out cok after printing. Someone may do one proof print and like it. Someone else may be more fussy and want the colours exactly how they want. This would take more proof prints. These prints arn't made just to make more money but they are indeed not worth binning. agreed, so let's see : one limited signed print edition of 150-350. One edition of Unsigned for 350-600. Say we get 31 A/P's before the print is exactly how the artist/agent would like the 'commercial' edition to look. So, all of these bar perhaps 1, ie :The last one, should have slight differences in colour and placement layout etc etc. Then how come a lot of these don't ? Also, it is standard practice for the printers to run off extra, say 2-5% of a run (postal damage, slight misprints, returns, non payment etc etc). These would be identical to the actual print run. Traditionally these would either be given to the artist or destroyed after the edition is sold out. Doesn't it look like it's actually some of these that are reaching the market and being labelled a/p's ? by all accounts some of them are 'identical' to the actual commercial run. Just a thought ! |
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Banksy Links, by numusic on Jun 1, 2006 9:48:44 GMT 1, The point of an artists proof is to tweek the disign and colouring and make sure that the prints will come out cok after printing. Someone may do one proof print and like it. Someone else may be more fussy and want the colours exactly how they want. This would take more proof prints. These prints arn't made just to make more money but they are indeed not worth binning. agreed, so let's see : one limited signed print edition of 150-350. One edition of Unsigned for 350-600. Say we get 31 A/P's before the print is exactly how the artist/agent would like the 'commercial' edition to look. So, all of these bar perhaps 1, ie :The last one, should have slight differences in colour and placement layout etc etc. Then how come a lot of these don't ? Also, it is standard practice for the printers to run off extra, say 2-5% of a run (postal damage, slight misprints, returns, non payment etc etc). These would be identical to the actual print run. Traditionally these would either be given to the artist or destroyed after the edition is sold out. Doesn't it look like it's actually some of these that are reaching the market and being labelled a/p's ? by all accounts some of them are 'identical' to the actual commercial run. Just a thought !
actually, of course there'd be more than one the same.. they'd print off a few.. but 31 !
The point of an artists proof is to tweek the disign and colouring and make sure that the prints will come out cok after printing. Someone may do one proof print and like it. Someone else may be more fussy and want the colours exactly how they want. This would take more proof prints. These prints arn't made just to make more money but they are indeed not worth binning. agreed, so let's see : one limited signed print edition of 150-350. One edition of Unsigned for 350-600. Say we get 31 A/P's before the print is exactly how the artist/agent would like the 'commercial' edition to look. So, all of these bar perhaps 1, ie :The last one, should have slight differences in colour and placement layout etc etc. Then how come a lot of these don't ? Also, it is standard practice for the printers to run off extra, say 2-5% of a run (postal damage, slight misprints, returns, non payment etc etc). These would be identical to the actual print run. Traditionally these would either be given to the artist or destroyed after the edition is sold out. Doesn't it look like it's actually some of these that are reaching the market and being labelled a/p's ? by all accounts some of them are 'identical' to the actual commercial run. Just a thought ! actually, of course there'd be more than one the same.. they'd print off a few.. but 31 ! |
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retep
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Banksy Links, by retep on Jun 1, 2006 10:42:11 GMT 1, The market is there now. It wasn't last year and it won't be in few more
Why do you think the market won't be there in a few years?
The market is there now. It wasn't last year and it won't be in few more Why do you think the market won't be there in a few years? |
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Banksy Links, by Daniel Silk on Jun 1, 2006 10:57:49 GMT 1, The market is there now. It wasn't last year and it won't be in few more Why do you think the market won't be there in a few years?
People were thinking that the prices could not get any higher two years ago I think we are only just at the beginning
The market is there now. It wasn't last year and it won't be in few more Why do you think the market won't be there in a few years? People were thinking that the prices could not get any higher two years ago I think we are only just at the beginning |
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gm
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Banksy Links, by gm on Jun 1, 2006 11:16:45 GMT 1,
Would a slight 'misprint' not be worth more than the perfect run tho, like a typo on a record label can sometimes shoot the worth of the record way above its actual value?
Anybody got any misprints?
Would a slight 'misprint' not be worth more than the perfect run tho, like a typo on a record label can sometimes shoot the worth of the record way above its actual value?
Anybody got any misprints?
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Banksy Links, by numusic on Jun 1, 2006 13:27:50 GMT 1, Would a slight 'misprint' not be worth more than the perfect run tho, like a typo on a record label can sometimes shoot the worth of the record way above its actual value? Anybody got any misprints?
yeah, Laz.inc 
Would a slight 'misprint' not be worth more than the perfect run tho, like a typo on a record label can sometimes shoot the worth of the record way above its actual value? Anybody got any misprints? yeah, Laz.inc |
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Banksy Links, by numusic on Jun 1, 2006 13:50:33 GMT 1, Why do you think the market won't be there in a few years? People were thinking that the prices could not get any higher two years ago I think we are only just at the beginning
agreed, J&J just went for 720 on ebay !!!.. sensible starting price for GWB also..be fun watching that one run ;-)
Why do you think the market won't be there in a few years? People were thinking that the prices could not get any higher two years ago I think we are only just at the beginning agreed, J&J just went for 720 on ebay !!!.. sensible starting price for GWB also..be fun watching that one run ;-) |
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Banksy Links, by monochrome on Jun 1, 2006 16:32:50 GMT 1, i've given up trying to understand the market for Banksy...
here's a guy, a couple of expos in London, a few collaborations abroad, a little 'marketing' stateside and prints are rising so fast they will soon be reaching Warhol levels in 2 years time.
i liken all this to collecting records back in the day.... have Prodigy's first 12" single which I bought for £3... a few years later, they are bigger than Elvis and I could have got £75-100 for the single easily - even more I guess if eBay was around. Now our dance crazy friends are getting on and Prodigy ain't what they used to be.. the value of the single now? around £10, although I did see one on eBay for £25 BIN the other week.
i guess all this will either implode in our faces or those that bought in 2003 will soon we moving to the south of france..... i hope the latter happens!!! i just want a car, a sportscar obviously! but i'm always tempted to bail out now, cash in my chips and wait for the right moment come back in.
i've given up trying to understand the market for Banksy...
here's a guy, a couple of expos in London, a few collaborations abroad, a little 'marketing' stateside and prints are rising so fast they will soon be reaching Warhol levels in 2 years time.
i liken all this to collecting records back in the day.... have Prodigy's first 12" single which I bought for £3... a few years later, they are bigger than Elvis and I could have got £75-100 for the single easily - even more I guess if eBay was around. Now our dance crazy friends are getting on and Prodigy ain't what they used to be.. the value of the single now? around £10, although I did see one on eBay for £25 BIN the other week.
i guess all this will either implode in our faces or those that bought in 2003 will soon we moving to the south of france..... i hope the latter happens!!! i just want a car, a sportscar obviously! but i'm always tempted to bail out now, cash in my chips and wait for the right moment come back in.
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Banksy Links, by wezzley on Jun 1, 2006 16:34:38 GMT 1, dont forget Hirst show in Nov....!
dont forget Hirst show in Nov....!
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Banksy Links, by Daniel Silk on Jun 1, 2006 16:57:49 GMT 1, dont forget Hirst show in Nov....!
Good Point The Hirst show will widen the current Banksy audience massively ;D
dont forget Hirst show in Nov....! Good Point The Hirst show will widen the current Banksy audience massively ;D |
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Banksy Links, by monochrome on Jun 1, 2006 17:46:52 GMT 1, er... i hope that was ironic.
i heard its Hirst collected pieces of Brit Art covering a period of time. It's at the Serpentine which holds about 5 paintings in total..... so bank on that raising the profile too much.
er... i hope that was ironic.
i heard its Hirst collected pieces of Brit Art covering a period of time. It's at the Serpentine which holds about 5 paintings in total..... so bank on that raising the profile too much.
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Banksy Links, by headphonesex on Jun 1, 2006 17:56:13 GMT 1, i've given up trying to understand the market for Banksy... here's a guy, a couple of expos in London, a few collaborations abroad, a little 'marketing' stateside and prints are rising so fast they will soon be reaching Warhol levels in 2 years time. i liken all this to collecting records back in the day.... have Prodigy's first 12" single which I bought for £3... a few years later, they are bigger than Elvis and I could have got £75-100 for the single easily - even more I guess if eBay was around. Now our dance crazy friends are getting on and Prodigy ain't what they used to be.. the value of the single now? around £10, although I did see one on eBay for £25 BIN the other week. i guess all this will either implode in our faces or those that bought in 2003 will soon we moving to the south of france..... i hope the latter happens!!! i just want a car, a sportscar obviously! but i'm always tempted to bail out now, cash in my chips and wait for the right moment come back in.
The Prodigy single (What Evil Lurks??) was reissued a couple of times though, so it's not a great analogy unless Banksy brings out 'represses' of some early prints. Hope not as i've just spent a fortune on a Happy Chopper!
Know what you mean though... i've had loads of valuable records that are now not worth too much.
My Carter USM collection was worth a few quid once upon a time!
i've given up trying to understand the market for Banksy... here's a guy, a couple of expos in London, a few collaborations abroad, a little 'marketing' stateside and prints are rising so fast they will soon be reaching Warhol levels in 2 years time. i liken all this to collecting records back in the day.... have Prodigy's first 12" single which I bought for £3... a few years later, they are bigger than Elvis and I could have got £75-100 for the single easily - even more I guess if eBay was around. Now our dance crazy friends are getting on and Prodigy ain't what they used to be.. the value of the single now? around £10, although I did see one on eBay for £25 BIN the other week. i guess all this will either implode in our faces or those that bought in 2003 will soon we moving to the south of france..... i hope the latter happens!!! i just want a car, a sportscar obviously! but i'm always tempted to bail out now, cash in my chips and wait for the right moment come back in. The Prodigy single (What Evil Lurks??) was reissued a couple of times though, so it's not a great analogy unless Banksy brings out 'represses' of some early prints. Hope not as i've just spent a fortune on a Happy Chopper! Know what you mean though... i've had loads of valuable records that are now not worth too much. My Carter USM collection was worth a few quid once upon a time! |
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Banksy Links, by numusic on Jun 1, 2006 18:00:17 GMT 1, My Carter USM collection was worth a few quid once upon a time![/quote]
Carter USM ..  ;D...scary stuff !
My Carter USM collection was worth a few quid once upon a time![/quote] Carter USM .. ;D...scary stuff ! |
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2badmice
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Banksy Links, by 2badmice on Jun 1, 2006 20:06:42 GMT 1, gm.....
Anybody got any misprints?
Generally in art prints quality comes first. A misprint would be regarded as an inferior print and therefore less collectable. Note...generally.
I have a misprinted Grin Reaper, where the light brown (beige, yuk...let's stick with light brown) is slighly off register and strangely this gives the print more depth, it creates the impression of a shadow around the bones. Because of this I bought another with the intention of moving on the misprinted one.
Now I don't know which I prefer because the misprint just looks better! Also, of course it has a lower number being the first bought!
It's a fuquing quandry..!!
2BM
gm.....
Anybody got any misprints?
Generally in art prints quality comes first. A misprint would be regarded as an inferior print and therefore less collectable. Note...generally.
I have a misprinted Grin Reaper, where the light brown (beige, yuk...let's stick with light brown) is slighly off register and strangely this gives the print more depth, it creates the impression of a shadow around the bones. Because of this I bought another with the intention of moving on the misprinted one.
Now I don't know which I prefer because the misprint just looks better! Also, of course it has a lower number being the first bought!
It's a fuquing quandry..!!
2BM
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RetroCanvas
Artist
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January 2006
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Banksy Links, by RetroCanvas on Jun 2, 2006 12:41:54 GMT 1, Some quality pics here, Banksy and Obey, some great pictures of some original canvases
www.frafra.de/bunksy_web2/index.htm
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Banksy Links, by stencilope on Jun 2, 2006 17:24:22 GMT 1, Why do I think the market wouldn't be there in a few years to release the A/P's?
Easy. Regardless of future Banksy values, if the prints appeared a few years from now, they wouldn't be accepted as easily. They would be viewed more as a re-issue, don't you think? Might as well get them out now while they still have some credibility.
As for the market in general, I don't think Banksy values are going to top out anytime soon either, but it WILL eventually drop off again. These prints are not your retirement fund.
Don't act surprised, this is an EXTREMELY well established pattern. What part of "POP ART" is there any confusion about? That is it's nature!
There are a lot of artists, as well as non-art pop culture objects, that go from ignored to priceless to ignored again very rapidly, and sometimes repetitively. I own a lot of 80's art far more famous and sought after in it's day that I couldn't sell now at a garage sale. It is what pop art does.
Why do I think the market wouldn't be there in a few years to release the A/P's?
Easy. Regardless of future Banksy values, if the prints appeared a few years from now, they wouldn't be accepted as easily. They would be viewed more as a re-issue, don't you think? Might as well get them out now while they still have some credibility.
As for the market in general, I don't think Banksy values are going to top out anytime soon either, but it WILL eventually drop off again. These prints are not your retirement fund.
Don't act surprised, this is an EXTREMELY well established pattern. What part of "POP ART" is there any confusion about? That is it's nature!
There are a lot of artists, as well as non-art pop culture objects, that go from ignored to priceless to ignored again very rapidly, and sometimes repetitively. I own a lot of 80's art far more famous and sought after in it's day that I couldn't sell now at a garage sale. It is what pop art does.
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;D...scary stuff !
