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Price Crash Who Cares???, by numusic on Aug 21, 2007 22:19:22 GMT 1, What's the result of the conclusion ? i dont care ;D
;D ;D ;D
What's the result of the conclusion ? i dont care ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Price Crash Who Cares???, by bobbymeachamjr on Aug 21, 2007 22:22:43 GMT 1, ever notice the high frequency of posts like "Looking for a signed banksy", "Micellef for under 2K", "looking for Neate" - doesnt matter what the image is as long as it has the "label". Robots....
ever notice the high frequency of posts like "Looking for a signed banksy", "Micellef for under 2K", "looking for Neate" - doesnt matter what the image is as long as it has the "label". Robots....
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Price Crash Who Cares???, by numusic on Aug 21, 2007 22:24:55 GMT 1, The things that you own end up owning you.
It's only after you lose everything that you're free to do anything.
The things that you own end up owning you. It's only after you lose everything that you're free to do anything. |
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stuey09
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August 2008
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Price Crash Who Cares???, by stuey09 on Aug 21, 2007 22:30:19 GMT 1, LOL, more of a Gil Scott Heron man myself. Or even better, Linton Kwasi ! ... Inglan is a b**ch dere´s no escapin it Inglan is a b**ch is whey wi a goh dhu ´bout it? I played support to Linton (and his tape machine) in '81!
Was this when he did the tour with the Banshees in 81 Hank, or a one off?
LOL, more of a Gil Scott Heron man myself. Or even better, Linton Kwasi ! ... Inglan is a b**ch dere´s no escapin it Inglan is a b**ch is whey wi a goh dhu ´bout it? I played support to Linton (and his tape machine) in '81! Was this when he did the tour with the Banshees in 81 Hank, or a one off? |
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gavagai
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Price Crash Who Cares???, by gavagai on Aug 21, 2007 22:30:40 GMT 1, just my two cents:
I buy art because i like it and it adds something to my environment. I do not buy it because others like it or to impress others - that is just foolishness.
That being said, whenever I shell out cash, specifically for things that are collectable I try not to overpay or throw away my money. I learned this when I used to collect baseball cards, continued as I started collecting jazz records and of course continued as I started collecting art. Sometimes I change my mind and an item I previously cherished falls from favor - then you can trade, sell or replace it with a different item that suits your current taste.
I have to go to work every freakin' day to make my money so I try to buy things that hold their value or increase in value as time goes by. I do this when I buy furniture and I did it when I bought my car (a 1967 porsche 912). I hate buying new crap that is worthless the second you pay for it...
I like buying things that stand the test of time...with art this is a true gamble and you should not invest your whole future on a couple pieces of paper...
Anybody who is still reading - save your money and DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT try to bombard the faile website when they release their prints...put your money into the bank!
just my two cents:
I buy art because i like it and it adds something to my environment. I do not buy it because others like it or to impress others - that is just foolishness.
That being said, whenever I shell out cash, specifically for things that are collectable I try not to overpay or throw away my money. I learned this when I used to collect baseball cards, continued as I started collecting jazz records and of course continued as I started collecting art. Sometimes I change my mind and an item I previously cherished falls from favor - then you can trade, sell or replace it with a different item that suits your current taste.
I have to go to work every freakin' day to make my money so I try to buy things that hold their value or increase in value as time goes by. I do this when I buy furniture and I did it when I bought my car (a 1967 porsche 912). I hate buying new crap that is worthless the second you pay for it...
I like buying things that stand the test of time...with art this is a true gamble and you should not invest your whole future on a couple pieces of paper...
Anybody who is still reading - save your money and DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT try to bombard the faile website when they release their prints...put your money into the bank!
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stuey09
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Price Crash Who Cares???, by stuey09 on Aug 21, 2007 22:31:24 GMT 1, The things that you own end up owning you.
That sounds like a married mans philosophy ;D
The things that you own end up owning you. That sounds like a married mans philosophy ;D |
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pelle
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May 2007
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Price Crash Who Cares???, by pelle on Aug 22, 2007 5:32:57 GMT 1, I agree with some of this Nu. I do think that art is bought to enhance parts of your life and aspects of your personality. I don't necessarily believe that it alters who you are, though, but certainly how you are perceived to be. Also, I'm pretty sure people buying fashionable clothes or other luxury products feel the same about the stuff they're into. We don't consume the material object but the symbol, as Baudrillard has said. So whether you're buying a painting or a Gucci handbag makes no real difference as you're essentially catering to your own image, both to yourself as spectator and to the eyes of the potential spectators around you. And what's with the seperation of "art" and "material goods"? Are you telling me that you're only into pure conceptual art now? If art is seperated from the material world, why are people on here, showing off their (very material) collections, having a cultural pissing contest of who's got the rarest bits on what paper and which edition?  Great post Pelle, I believe this scene has blurred the lines between "art" and "material goods".
As long as the "street art" is actually on the street, I think so too. As soon as it's turned into prints and paintings, however, it becomes a commodity just like anything else.
There has long existed a myth of the separation of art and the material, just like there still exists a myth about the artist as a genius and an eccentric. The idea of this separation, I think, has been made even stronger with this type of "street related art", because a lot of the commercial products that we're now buying are somehow still seen as part of the immaterial and ideological art (in the sense that not one person should own it) that is put on the street.
This connection, which only exists in the mind of the consumer, between the commercial product and the free products on the street is a great form of branding really. It makes people feel that buying a print for £££ has got something to do with a free piece of art that was buffed off the street years ago.
I agree with some of this Nu. I do think that art is bought to enhance parts of your life and aspects of your personality. I don't necessarily believe that it alters who you are, though, but certainly how you are perceived to be. Also, I'm pretty sure people buying fashionable clothes or other luxury products feel the same about the stuff they're into. We don't consume the material object but the symbol, as Baudrillard has said. So whether you're buying a painting or a Gucci handbag makes no real difference as you're essentially catering to your own image, both to yourself as spectator and to the eyes of the potential spectators around you. And what's with the seperation of "art" and "material goods"? Are you telling me that you're only into pure conceptual art now? If art is seperated from the material world, why are people on here, showing off their (very material) collections, having a cultural pissing contest of who's got the rarest bits on what paper and which edition? Great post Pelle, I believe this scene has blurred the lines between "art" and "material goods". As long as the "street art" is actually on the street, I think so too. As soon as it's turned into prints and paintings, however, it becomes a commodity just like anything else. There has long existed a myth of the separation of art and the material, just like there still exists a myth about the artist as a genius and an eccentric. The idea of this separation, I think, has been made even stronger with this type of "street related art", because a lot of the commercial products that we're now buying are somehow still seen as part of the immaterial and ideological art (in the sense that not one person should own it) that is put on the street. This connection, which only exists in the mind of the consumer, between the commercial product and the free products on the street is a great form of branding really. It makes people feel that buying a print for £££ has got something to do with a free piece of art that was buffed off the street years ago. |
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Price Crash Who Cares???, by tadghostal on Aug 22, 2007 6:17:57 GMT 1, This board is channeling the spirit of Tyler Durden.
Let Operation Mayhem begin!
The things that you own end up owning you. It's only after you lose everything that you're free to do anything.
This board is channeling the spirit of Tyler Durden. Let Operation Mayhem begin! The things that you own end up owning you. It's only after you lose everything that you're free to do anything. |
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pezlow
Junior Member
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January 2007
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Price Crash Who Cares???, by pezlow on Aug 22, 2007 8:37:18 GMT 1, Ok this may turn in to a bit of an essay but I want to get a few things off my chest.
I have a great job. It gives me a hell of a lot of intellectual stimulation and provides plenty of interesting challenges and rewards. But it is not what you might call creative in any way.
For my fix of creativity I look to art. I love art because for me it provokes thought, it makes me smile, sometimes it makes me love, often it moves me, it makes me laugh out loud occasionally, it can make me incredibly sad. In short I love art because it provokes feelings and reactions in me that I do not get in my job. I love art for the same reasons I love literature and films etc.
I do not love art because of money. The value of the art I have in some ways worries me. I worry about insurance. I worry about having a print up in my office which I know is worth the best part of a grand. I worry about acid and moisture and all the things we talk about. It saddens me greatly when you see Moffla's amazing collection on Wall Candy but you know that he doesn't any longer have it displayed in his home because of its value.
Also the value concerns me because it costs so bloody much to buy the art that I like. So that means that most of the time I have to decide not to buy it or to buy something else.
I'm not naive though. I can't afford to be. I've pretty much resolved that any art I buy now has to be funded by selling something else. That concentrates the mind I can tell you 
I joined this board to talk to like minded people about the art that I love. And I really enjoy being on this board and would venture to say that I have made some friends
I did not join this board to discuss the stock market, the housing market, the strength of the pound etc etc. It seems to me that there are some people now posting on this board whose only contribution is to discuss these things.
I am not saying the stock market and economy are not important I am just saying that they do not interest me. I don't really want to talk about them constantly. I want to talk about the things that interest me - art, books, films, football, cricket.
So a little plea from me. The next time you are tempted to post something about the stock market please go off and post it on one of the forums dedicated to such things. And leave us to discuss the art. Please.
Ok this may turn in to a bit of an essay but I want to get a few things off my chest. I have a great job. It gives me a hell of a lot of intellectual stimulation and provides plenty of interesting challenges and rewards. But it is not what you might call creative in any way. For my fix of creativity I look to art. I love art because for me it provokes thought, it makes me smile, sometimes it makes me love, often it moves me, it makes me laugh out loud occasionally, it can make me incredibly sad. In short I love art because it provokes feelings and reactions in me that I do not get in my job. I love art for the same reasons I love literature and films etc. I do not love art because of money. The value of the art I have in some ways worries me. I worry about insurance. I worry about having a print up in my office which I know is worth the best part of a grand. I worry about acid and moisture and all the things we talk about. It saddens me greatly when you see Moffla's amazing collection on Wall Candy but you know that he doesn't any longer have it displayed in his home because of its value. Also the value concerns me because it costs so bloody much to buy the art that I like. So that means that most of the time I have to decide not to buy it or to buy something else. I'm not naive though. I can't afford to be. I've pretty much resolved that any art I buy now has to be funded by selling something else. That concentrates the mind I can tell you I joined this board to talk to like minded people about the art that I love. And I really enjoy being on this board and would venture to say that I have made some friends I did not join this board to discuss the stock market, the housing market, the strength of the pound etc etc. It seems to me that there are some people now posting on this board whose only contribution is to discuss these things. I am not saying the stock market and economy are not important I am just saying that they do not interest me. I don't really want to talk about them constantly. I want to talk about the things that interest me - art, books, films, football, cricket. So a little plea from me. The next time you are tempted to post something about the stock market please go off and post it on one of the forums dedicated to such things. And leave us to discuss the art. Please. |
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neutral
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Price Crash Who Cares???, by neutral on Aug 22, 2007 8:56:59 GMT 1, Nice one Pezlow, agree big time one the stock and house market parts, but please leave the football and cricket out of the way too
Nice one Pezlow, agree big time one the stock and house market parts, but please leave the football and cricket out of the way too |
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pezlow
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Price Crash Who Cares???, by pezlow on Aug 22, 2007 9:00:34 GMT 1, Lol - No probs neutral.
Lol - No probs neutral.
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neutral
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February 2007
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Price Crash Who Cares???, by neutral on Aug 22, 2007 9:01:27 GMT 1, 
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Price Crash Who Cares???, by slowmo on Aug 22, 2007 9:49:48 GMT 1, Good result in the cricket yesterday though 
Good result in the cricket yesterday though |
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pezlow
Junior Member
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January 2007
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Price Crash Who Cares???, by pezlow on Aug 22, 2007 9:51:11 GMT 1, Certainly was. Nice to see Freddie back as well.
Certainly was. Nice to see Freddie back as well.
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Price Crash Who Cares???, by corblimeylimey on Aug 22, 2007 10:06:24 GMT 1, Oi ;D
Lets keep on art, who cares about cricket or price crashes? ;D
Oi ;D Lets keep on art, who cares about cricket or price crashes? ;D |
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Price Crash Who Cares???, by carlito on Aug 22, 2007 10:41:06 GMT 1, I did not join this board to discuss the stock market, the housing market, the strength of the pound etc etc. It seems to me that there are some people now posting on this board whose only contribution is to discuss these things. I am not saying the stock market and economy are not important I am just saying that they do not interest me. I don't really want to talk about them constantly. I want to talk about the things that interest me - art, books, films, football, cricket. So a little plea from me. The next time you are tempted to post something about the stock market please go off and post it on one of the forums dedicated to such things. And leave us to discuss the art. Please.
totally and utterly agree, one more post telling us how the dip in prices on Amercian Market is going to effect my 100 quid print and i will scream - ;D (scratch that my head hurts to much from last night....I'll groan instead)
I did not join this board to discuss the stock market, the housing market, the strength of the pound etc etc. It seems to me that there are some people now posting on this board whose only contribution is to discuss these things. I am not saying the stock market and economy are not important I am just saying that they do not interest me. I don't really want to talk about them constantly. I want to talk about the things that interest me - art, books, films, football, cricket. So a little plea from me. The next time you are tempted to post something about the stock market please go off and post it on one of the forums dedicated to such things. And leave us to discuss the art. Please. totally and utterly agree, one more post telling us how the dip in prices on Amercian Market is going to effect my 100 quid print and i will scream - ;D (scratch that my head hurts to much from last night....I'll groan instead) |
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Price Crash Who Cares???, by bobbymeachamjr on Aug 22, 2007 13:18:34 GMT 1, if you don't want to read posts about the economic side of "art" then you can easily skip it. I don't understand the plea? Obviously, theres a lot of interest. When prices have shot up 1000%+ you better believe theres economics to be discussed. When theres editions of 15 canvases marketed as "originals" you better believe that those involved have their profit margins all figured out...
if you don't want to read posts about the economic side of "art" then you can easily skip it. I don't understand the plea? Obviously, theres a lot of interest. When prices have shot up 1000%+ you better believe theres economics to be discussed. When theres editions of 15 canvases marketed as "originals" you better believe that those involved have their profit margins all figured out...
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pezlow
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Price Crash Who Cares???, by pezlow on Aug 22, 2007 13:40:42 GMT 1, I don't understand the plea?
And that, I am afraid, in a nutshell is the problem.
I don't understand the plea? And that, I am afraid, in a nutshell is the problem. |
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Price Crash Who Cares???, by bobbymeachamjr on Aug 22, 2007 14:10:49 GMT 1, I don't understand the plea? And that, I am afraid, in a nutshell is the problem.
I do understand what you're saying thats fine - I just don't think discourse should be dictated - which is what you're implying.
I don't understand the plea? And that, I am afraid, in a nutshell is the problem. I do understand what you're saying thats fine - I just don't think discourse should be dictated - which is what you're implying. |
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pezlow
Junior Member
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January 2007
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Price Crash Who Cares???, by pezlow on Aug 22, 2007 14:13:48 GMT 1, Bobby if you want to interpret what I have said as some form of censorship then that is your problem and not mine.
Bobby if you want to interpret what I have said as some form of censorship then that is your problem and not mine.
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Price Crash Who Cares???, by bobbymeachamjr on Aug 22, 2007 14:18:45 GMT 1, Bobby if you want to interpret what I have said as some form of censorship then that is your problem and not mine.
Hey I'll let your summary basically speak for itself - you sure it doesnt say if you don't want to talk about what i'm interested in talking about then please leave?:
"So a little plea from me. The next time you are tempted to post something about the stock market please go off and post it on one of the forums dedicated to such things. And leave us to discuss the art. Please."
Bobby if you want to interpret what I have said as some form of censorship then that is your problem and not mine. Hey I'll let your summary basically speak for itself - you sure it doesnt say if you don't want to talk about what i'm interested in talking about then please leave?: "So a little plea from me. The next time you are tempted to post something about the stock market please go off and post it on one of the forums dedicated to such things. And leave us to discuss the art. Please." |
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pezlow
Junior Member
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January 2007
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Price Crash Who Cares???, by pezlow on Aug 22, 2007 14:28:16 GMT 1, Bobby I am struggling to understand if you are being deliberately obtuse or you just really don't get it. Sadly I think it may be the latter.
Bobby I am struggling to understand if you are being deliberately obtuse or you just really don't get it. Sadly I think it may be the latter.
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Yessir
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November 2006
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Price Crash Who Cares???, by Yessir on Aug 22, 2007 14:43:22 GMT 1, Bobby just a quick question...
What is wrong with a high majority of people in an ART forum, wanting to discus primarily ART?.
My thread and Pezlow's thread are not about censorship, but about " OK you've discussed value/investment/the economy, its now slowly starting to get a little bit tedious, can we please get back to the REASON why we are SURELY all here... ART???".
Let me know what you think.
Bobby just a quick question...
What is wrong with a high majority of people in an ART forum, wanting to discus primarily ART?.
My thread and Pezlow's thread are not about censorship, but about " OK you've discussed value/investment/the economy, its now slowly starting to get a little bit tedious, can we please get back to the REASON why we are SURELY all here... ART???".
Let me know what you think.
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Price Crash Who Cares???, by bobbymeachamjr on Aug 22, 2007 15:06:24 GMT 1, Bobby I am struggling to understand if you are being deliberately obtuse or you just really don't get it. Sadly I think it may be the latter.
why the cheap insults in your 2 responses to me? Irregardless of what you were "trying" to say - if the thread doesnt interest you then don't read it. Signed Banksys go for over 10K usd and at those levels you better believe that its valuation for most is more important than the "image"
Bobby I am struggling to understand if you are being deliberately obtuse or you just really don't get it. Sadly I think it may be the latter. why the cheap insults in your 2 responses to me? Irregardless of what you were "trying" to say - if the thread doesnt interest you then don't read it. Signed Banksys go for over 10K usd and at those levels you better believe that its valuation for most is more important than the "image" |
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pezlow
Junior Member
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January 2007
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Price Crash Who Cares???, by pezlow on Aug 22, 2007 15:14:49 GMT 1, Apologies if you think that I was insulting you bobby. I wasn't. If you re-read your posts through about what I "better believe" I think you will agree that it was a little patronising. I hope you can anyway.
I'm just getting a bit sick of all these threads saying the same things and judging from the number of pm's I have had a lot of people agree. And for you to interpret my comments as censorship is really just typical.
Apologies if you think that I was insulting you bobby. I wasn't. If you re-read your posts through about what I "better believe" I think you will agree that it was a little patronising. I hope you can anyway.
I'm just getting a bit sick of all these threads saying the same things and judging from the number of pm's I have had a lot of people agree. And for you to interpret my comments as censorship is really just typical.
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Price Crash Who Cares???, by curiousgeorge on Aug 22, 2007 15:24:16 GMT 1, Got to agree with many posts/sentiments in this thread
It would nice to read more " My x,y,z print arrived back from the framers today, and it makes me feel........."
On the other hand as mentioned with some prices approaching 1000% increase, and of course the various high's and low's throughout the summer.That alone is bound to invoke a responce in people, from what i have seen MONEY does rule the world. I may not like that fact, but it is IMO still a fact, thus people will want to talk about.
If an item or two of mine became worth 5x what i paid, i too would have to think long and hard about selling it to enable me to get some other bits i like, should that occur i would like to think i could post here for advice/guidance
I don't believe for one minute that the majority of members here care more about ART than VALUE, i actually think it would possible to care about both in equal-ish measure.
Also when im looking at various forums if i see a thread/post i dont like, i mostly click the back button on read something else.
JMO
Got to agree with many posts/sentiments in this thread
It would nice to read more " My x,y,z print arrived back from the framers today, and it makes me feel........."
On the other hand as mentioned with some prices approaching 1000% increase, and of course the various high's and low's throughout the summer.That alone is bound to invoke a responce in people, from what i have seen MONEY does rule the world. I may not like that fact, but it is IMO still a fact, thus people will want to talk about.
If an item or two of mine became worth 5x what i paid, i too would have to think long and hard about selling it to enable me to get some other bits i like, should that occur i would like to think i could post here for advice/guidance
I don't believe for one minute that the majority of members here care more about ART than VALUE, i actually think it would possible to care about both in equal-ish measure.
Also when im looking at various forums if i see a thread/post i dont like, i mostly click the back button on read something else.
JMO
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Price Crash Who Cares???, by bobbymeachamjr on Aug 22, 2007 15:24:40 GMT 1, Bobby just a quick question... What is wrong with a high majority of people in an ART forum, wanting to discus primarily ART?. My thread and Pezlow's thread are not about censorship, but about " OK you've discussed value/investment/the economy, its now slowly starting to get a little bit tedious, can we please get back to the REASON why we are SURELY all here... ART???". Let me know what you think.
Anthony - with the prices going loony it is inevitable that this aspect is going to be talked about in depth. Its what people want to talk about. Personally, I (and I hope others) get a good feel about this scene and how people are just in a speculative hyping frenzy and that there will be a serious crash.
There is absolutely (obviously) "nothing wrong with a high majority of people in an ART forum, wanting to discus primarily ART?". Its just that BECAUSE of the "valuations" that this is what people want to talk about and theres nothing wrong with THAT.
Bobby just a quick question... What is wrong with a high majority of people in an ART forum, wanting to discus primarily ART?. My thread and Pezlow's thread are not about censorship, but about " OK you've discussed value/investment/the economy, its now slowly starting to get a little bit tedious, can we please get back to the REASON why we are SURELY all here... ART???". Let me know what you think. Anthony - with the prices going loony it is inevitable that this aspect is going to be talked about in depth. Its what people want to talk about. Personally, I (and I hope others) get a good feel about this scene and how people are just in a speculative hyping frenzy and that there will be a serious crash. There is absolutely (obviously) "nothing wrong with a high majority of people in an ART forum, wanting to discus primarily ART?". Its just that BECAUSE of the "valuations" that this is what people want to talk about and theres nothing wrong with THAT. |
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Price Crash Who Cares???, by carlito on Aug 22, 2007 15:31:40 GMT 1, a couple of things...
anyone who is negging Bobby please desist he's entitled to his opinion whether you agree or not
secondly yes the discussion of valuation is almost impossible not too occur with the madness of prices...its seems tho in recent weeks especially with the stock market issues in America...that almost every thread devolves into 'woe is me, the print market is about to implode' it just feels like this has been said now ..and enough is enough
valuations , discussions of this fine, stock market crash end of the world..bored now
a couple of things... anyone who is negging Bobby please desist he's entitled to his opinion whether you agree or not secondly yes the discussion of valuation is almost impossible not too occur with the madness of prices...its seems tho in recent weeks especially with the stock market issues in America...that almost every thread devolves into 'woe is me, the print market is about to implode' it just feels like this has been said now ..and enough is enough valuations , discussions of this fine, stock market crash end of the world..bored now |
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pezlow
Junior Member
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January 2007
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Price Crash Who Cares???, by pezlow on Aug 22, 2007 15:36:06 GMT 1, Just to clarify Bobby I have certainly not negged you.
Just to clarify Bobby I have certainly not negged you.
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Price Crash Who Cares???, by dgb133 on Aug 22, 2007 16:20:26 GMT 1, If you don't want to talk about the economics of the art then don't read the thread and especially don't start an antagonizing thread about the whole issue either. And if you think world economics doesn't have anything to do with how much you're going to have to pay for art then that's fine too. I don't care. But the reason there's so much talk about the economics is because the economics is so absurdly out of line with reality and until that changes it's going to be a hot button issue.
But like it or not Banksy prints are a new form of currency and as of now it's the hype that's driving these markets not the art on the paper. As evidenced by the mindless drones who endlessly que up in lines or pound websites to buy new prints even when they don't know what they're buying until they've paid for it. It's all madness.
If you don't want to talk about the economics of the art then don't read the thread and especially don't start an antagonizing thread about the whole issue either. And if you think world economics doesn't have anything to do with how much you're going to have to pay for art then that's fine too. I don't care. But the reason there's so much talk about the economics is because the economics is so absurdly out of line with reality and until that changes it's going to be a hot button issue.
But like it or not Banksy prints are a new form of currency and as of now it's the hype that's driving these markets not the art on the paper. As evidenced by the mindless drones who endlessly que up in lines or pound websites to buy new prints even when they don't know what they're buying until they've paid for it. It's all madness.
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