met
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June 2009
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Martin Whatson Print, Canvas, WANTED, by met on Jan 25, 2021 14:03:14 GMT 1, Looking to purchase my very first Martin Whatson, but sadly I've forgotten the name of the specific painting. It's a side portrait which may or may not be called Michael, or something similar. With apologies for being annoyingly vague, in case that title rings a bell for anyone, please let me know. I'd been pleasantly surprised after seeing the work online, because the level of technical skill demonstrated (in terms of capturing likeness) went beyond what I previously believed the artist was capable of. And if my hunt is successful, I'll hang the canvas next to a photo poster in my collection. The two pieces feature the same character and would complement each other beautifully. Sorry again for this nebulous 'Wanted' post. Will continue searching for an image of the What son painting in the meantime. To my frustration, the jpeg I had already saved to my Desktop has mysteriously disappeared.
Ah, just found that missing jpeg in a random Desktop folder:
The Whatson (left) is the painting I'm hoping to acquire for a fair price. I'd be willing to go up to ยฃ10.00 (condition dependent) plus the cost of shipping with insurance.
The photo poster (right) was a free printout. Although it's also the stronger of the two pieces, due to its more heightened sense of drama, I feel both works will be even more impressive when hung together, side-by-side.
Looking to purchase my very first Martin Whatson, but sadly I've forgotten the name of the specific painting. It's a side portrait which may or may not be called Michael, or something similar. With apologies for being annoyingly vague, in case that title rings a bell for anyone, please let me know. I'd been pleasantly surprised after seeing the work online, because the level of technical skill demonstrated (in terms of capturing likeness) went beyond what I previously believed the artist was capable of. And if my hunt is successful, I'll hang the canvas next to a photo poster in my collection. The two pieces feature the same character and would complement each other beautifully. Sorry again for this nebulous 'Wanted' post. Will continue searching for an image of the What son painting in the meantime. To my frustration, the jpeg I had already saved to my Desktop has mysteriously disappeared. Ah, just found that missing jpeg in a random Desktop folder: The What son (left) is the painting I'm hoping to acquire for a fair price. I'd be willing to go up to ยฃ10.00 (condition dependent) plus the cost of shipping with insurance. The photo poster (right) was a free printout. Although it's also the stronger of the two pieces, due to its more heightened sense of drama, I feel both works will be even more impressive when hung together, side-by-side.
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,706
Likes โข 6,394
June 2009
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Martin Whatson Print, Canvas, WANTED, by met on Jan 25, 2021 13:50:43 GMT 1, Looking to purchase my very first Martin Whatson, but sadly I've forgotten the name of the specific painting.
It's a side portrait which may or may not be called Michael, or something similar. With apologies for being annoyingly vague, in case that title rings a bell for anyone, please let me know.
I'd been pleasantly surprised after seeing the work online, because the level of technical skill demonstrated (in terms of capturing likeness) went beyond what I previously believed the artist was capable of. And if my hunt is successful, I'll hang the canvas next to a photo poster in my collection. The two pieces feature the same character and would complement each other beautifully.
Sorry again for this nebulous 'Wanted' post.
Will continue searching for an image of the Whatson painting in the meantime. To my frustration, the jpeg I had already saved to my Desktop has mysteriously disappeared.
Looking to purchase my very first Martin Whatson, but sadly I've forgotten the name of the specific painting.
It's a side portrait which may or may not be called Michael, or something similar. With apologies for being annoyingly vague, in case that title rings a bell for anyone, please let me know.
I'd been pleasantly surprised after seeing the work online, because the level of technical skill demonstrated (in terms of capturing likeness) went beyond what I previously believed the artist was capable of. And if my hunt is successful, I'll hang the canvas next to a photo poster in my collection. The two pieces feature the same character and would complement each other beautifully.
Sorry again for this nebulous 'Wanted' post.
Will continue searching for an image of the Whatson painting in the meantime. To my frustration, the jpeg I had already saved to my Desktop has mysteriously disappeared.
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,706
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June 2009
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Gerhard Richter ๐ฉ๐ช Abstract โข Contemporary Art โข New Relea, by met on Jan 25, 2021 11:04:21 GMT 1, I like the character in the canoe near the top.
Cheers for pointing this out; I would never have spotted that character otherwise.
And thanks to nobokov's high-res photo, it was possible to zoom in for a close-up:
I like the character in the canoe near the top. Cheers for pointing this out; I would never have spotted that character otherwise. And thanks to nobokov's high-res photo, it was possible to zoom in for a close-up:
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met
Junior Member
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June 2009
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Alec Monopoly ๐บ๐ธ Graffiti โข Street Art โข Print Release, by met on Jan 25, 2021 10:23:06 GMT 1,
indeclineofficial
Americaโs least favorite rich kid just got served a Cease & Desist from Americaโs favorite board game company. See full letter below and swipe to enjoy.
*******
Dear Mr. Andon,
We are reaching out in regards to a violation of our intellectual property.
Our legal team has made us aware of your work, and, to put it mildly, Hasbro Inc. is not impressed with your take on Rich Uncle Pennybags. Reducing our mascot to a plasticized brand, replicated ad-nauseam as a promotional gimmick, is not in keeping with our company culture.
We havenโt forgot that, Monopoly, in essence, is about stealing. But stealing is only fair when everybody has an equal opportunity. A wall is free for anyone to paint, provided they choose to take the risk. But when multiple walls are clogged in a campaign to enrich oneself by already having money, purposefully imitating the aesthetic of being an industry plant, we feel the game is rigged, and thus, must take legal and ethical action.
Again, itโs not that we are against such self-enrichment in principle, but youโre not trying to say anything beyond โgive me your money and Iโll spray paint some Louis Vuitton luggage for you.โ
Therefore, while we await a judgment from the courts, we went ahead and removed the first piece from the wall at 7547 Melrose Avenue in Los Angeles, CA. We instructed the workers to leave all the other tags, because we figured they deserved the canvas to continue their practice and get better. Isnโt that what art is all about? Trying.
Unless youโre willing to try harder, we demand ALEC MONOPOLY leave us out of it. We have always been in this for the kids. Not for the toys.
Cheers, Hasbro, Inc.
__________
Bemusing, but also a missed opportunity when targeting the embarrassment that is Alec Monopoly.
Subtle execution would have achieved greater impact. Obviousness weakens the spoof (assuming it is indeed a spoof, as opposed to an incompetent attempt at black propaganda).
'indeclineofficial' could instead have made an effort to delay gratification by drafting a believable cease & desist letter โ i.e. one that could credibly have come from a multinational conglomerate.
Had they done so, the letter would likely have received more traction. It might even have been reported on, at face value, by content providers who rely on junk journalism and clickbait.
indeclineofficial
Americaโs least favorite rich kid just got served a Cease & Desist from Americaโs favorite board game company. See full letter below and swipe to enjoy.
*******
Dear Mr. Andon,
We are reaching out in regards to a violation of our intellectual property.
Our legal team has made us aware of your work, and, to put it mildly, Hasbro Inc. is not impressed with your take on Rich Uncle Pennybags. Reducing our mascot to a plasticized brand, replicated ad-nauseam as a promotional gimmick, is not in keeping with our company culture.
We havenโt forgot that, Monopoly, in essence, is about stealing. But stealing is only fair when everybody has an equal opportunity. A wall is free for anyone to paint, provided they choose to take the risk. But when multiple walls are clogged in a campaign to enrich oneself by already having money, purposefully imitating the aesthetic of being an industry plant, we feel the game is rigged, and thus, must take legal and ethical action.
Again, itโs not that we are against such self-enrichment in principle, but youโre not trying to say anything beyond โgive me your money and Iโll spray paint some Louis Vuitton luggage for you.โ
Therefore, while we await a judgment from the courts, we went ahead and removed the first piece from the wall at 7547 Melrose Avenue in Los Angeles, CA. We instructed the workers to leave all the other tags, because we figured they deserved the canvas to continue their practice and get better. Isnโt that what art is all about? Trying.
Unless youโre willing to try harder, we demand ALEC MONOPOLY leave us out of it. We have always been in this for the kids. Not for the toys.
Cheers, Hasbro, Inc.__________ Bemusing, but also a missed opportunity when targeting the embarrassment that is Alec Monopoly. Subtle execution would have achieved greater impact. Obviousness weakens the spoof (assuming it is indeed a spoof, as opposed to an incompetent attempt at black propaganda). 'indeclineofficial' could instead have made an effort to delay gratification by drafting a believable cease & desist letter โ i.e. one that could credibly have come from a multinational conglomerate. Had they done so, the letter would likely have received more traction. It might even have been reported on, at face value, by content providers who rely on junk journalism and clickbait.
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met
Junior Member
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June 2009
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Dominic Cummings , by met on Nov 14, 2020 4:50:45 GMT 1, I didn't know where to put this, but wondered if anyone knows what art from which artist was being removed from number 10 along with Dominic Cummings other belongings
It looks like a unique variant (with added eyeballs) of Double Deathshead by the Chapman Brothers / Jake and Dinos Chapman.
EDIT:
A correction is required. Each of these prints apparently comes with a pair of plastic eyes โ so the one above isn't unique after all.
www.nationalgalleries.org/art-and-artists/68324/double-deathshead
When this print is displayed, a pair of plastic eyes on springs โ โDroopy Eyesโ, are fixed to the glazed surface. Dinos Chapman explained, โThe eyes deflate any sense of menace, the whole image deflates itself.โ
I didn't know where to put this, but wondered if anyone knows what art from which artist was being removed from number 10 along with Dominic Cummings other belongings It looks like a unique variant (with added eyeballs) of Double Deathshead by the Chapman Brothers / Jake and Dinos Chap man. EDIT: A correction is required. Each of these prints apparently comes with a pair of plastic eyes โ so the one above isn't unique after all. www.nationalgalleries.org/art-and-artists/68324/double-deathsheadWhen this print is displayed, a pair of plastic eyes on springs โ โDroopy Eyesโ, are fixed to the glazed surface. Dinos Chapman explained, โThe eyes deflate any sense of menace, the whole image deflates itself.โ
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met
Junior Member
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June 2009
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Mason Storm ๐ฌ๐ง New Print Release โข Who is Mason Storm?, by met on Nov 8, 2020 3:46:46 GMT 1, Well written as always met. But I asked a question on the validity of how a member apparently knows for a fact that Mason Storm didnโt paint the Monkey Parliament piece which was a request for help and itโs simply ignored as if Iโm not worthy of knowing or it is somehow a stupid question. There are rarely any stupid questions, stupid answers there are plenty. So if you know something that could help the forum then please share it either publicly or via DM.
1. On the Banksy / Devolved Parliament side, it seems understandable that, if someone had inside information, they might refrain from disclosing details on a public forum โ to avoid betraying the trust given to them by the artist.
2. Regarding Mason Storm, both his intention and modus operandi seem reasonably clear to me. This, even if we ignore his history of coattail-riding.
It's a case of looking at both paintings, seeing the considerable efforts of the Storm version to very faithfully replicate the Banksy and, notwithstanding the intentional small differences, being conscious this process would not have been followed to such degree if the Storm version were (as vaguely yet knowingly implied) an earlier study of the finished Banksy.
The same thing is evident when comparing Banksy's Vettriano, Beach Rescue with Storm's copy: a couple of deliberately noticeable differences, with the rest of it (cloud formations, sand shadows, etc.) being obvious parroting and just too similar to be a study:
Side note:
Interested members may wish to take the time and closely examine, as I have done, other paintings attributed to Mason Storm. You might share my strong suspicion that many of them were created by different hands โ their execution having been outsourced to artists who can actually paint.
3. If Stowe Gallery, as publisher and distributor of the release, wanted to demonstrate integrity, it could easily offer some clarification.
This would benefit collectors currently under the false impression that the painting on which the Mason Storm prints are based may have been a Banksy commission, or something other than a mere later copy of a section of Devolved Parliament.
The alternative for the gallery is to accept the risk of accusations of dishonesty from its clients โ of selling them prints under cynically-implied false pretences.
Artlover has previously identified himself here as Jamie Marchant* of Marchant Group / Stowe Gallery. [printlove, based in Worcester, looks like it could be a duplicate account.]
Since Marchant will surely have had communications with Storm about the background of the painting in question, perhaps he would be kind enough to confirm it has no genuine connection to Banksy and that it was created after Devolved Parliament as a reproduction.
Well written as always met. But I asked a question on the validity of how a member apparently knows for a fact that Mason Storm didnโt paint the Monkey Parliament piece which was a request for help and itโs simply ignored as if Iโm not worthy of knowing or it is somehow a stupid question. There are rarely any stupid questions, stupid answers there are plenty. So if you know something that could help the forum then please share it either publicly or via DM. 1. On the Banksy / Devolved Parliament side, it seems understandable that, if someone had inside information, they might refrain from disclosing details on a public forum โ to avoid betraying the trust given to them by the artist. 2. Regarding Mason Storm, both his intention and modus operandi seem reasonably clear to me. This, even if we ignore his history of coattail-riding. It's a case of looking at both paintings, seeing the considerable efforts of the Storm version to very faithfully replicate the Ban ksy and, notwithstanding the intentional small differences, being conscious this process would not have been followed to such degree if the Storm version were (as vaguely yet knowingly implied) an earlier study of the finished Ban ksy. The same thing is evident when comparing Ban ksy's Vettriano, Beach Rescue with Storm's copy: a couple of deliberately noticeable differences, with the rest of it (cloud formations, sand shadows, etc.) being obvious parroting and just too similar to be a study: Side note: Interested members may wish to take the time and closely examine, as I have done, other paintings attributed to Mason Storm. You might share my strong suspicion that many of them were created by different hands โ their execution having been outsourced to artists who can actually paint. 3. If Stowe Gallery, as publisher and distributor of the release, wanted to demonstrate integrity, it could easily offer some clarification. This would benefit collectors currently under the false impression that the painting on which the Mason Storm prints are based may have been a Ban ksy commission, or something other than a mere later copy of a section of Devolved Parliament. The alternative for the gallery is to accept the risk of accusations of dishonesty from its clients โ of selling them prints under cynically-implied false pretences. Artlover has previously identified himself here as Jamie Marchant* of Marchant Group / Stowe Gallery. [ printlove, based in Worcester, looks like it could be a duplicate account.] Since Marchant will surely have had communications with Storm about the background of the painting in question, perhaps he would be kind enough to confirm it has no genuine connection to Ban ksy and that it was created after Devolved Parliament as a reproduction.
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,706
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June 2009
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Mason Storm ๐ฌ๐ง New Print Release โข Who is Mason Storm?, by met on Nov 7, 2020 23:35:50 GMT 1, Well, there you have it, Ladies and Gentlemen. There you have it. You see how far the termites have spread, and how long and well they've dined.
JFC.
With apologies for the exasperated tone, what is this rubbish?
__________
The most disheartening aspect about the thread is the general absence of scepticism being expressed by members.
There's even a link to a hack-journalism piece โ quite possibly paid for, and reading in part like PR guff or paraphrased press releases from a gallery or artist. And this has been posted as if it were a researched news article. Frankly, that amounts to confusing clickbait for legitimate, reliable sources of information.
Mental faculties and senses seem to have been dullened (whether by age-related forgetfulness, sedentariness, physical comfort and/or jadedness) โ to the point where some members appear to accept at face value a narrative being presented to them by those with vested interests. And, for that matter, obvious vested interests.
__________
Why are there so few posts challenging this rot?
Where has our attitude of "Question everything!" disappeared to?
Who is asking, "Cui bono?"
It's not as if these types of shenanigans are unfamiliar to longstanding members.
We've already been exposed, multiple times, to parasitic dross and deceptive marketing from pedlars of the likes of Outis, Gonefellow, Ted Patrick and Mrs Banksy.
But also from Mason Storm himself. Remember he's a recidivist. Storm has always reeked of the need to appear relevant, if only by proxy.
____________________
Let's consider things a different way, with a partial thought experiment, to drum home the point.
Imagine for this purpose that:
(i) it is I who is the inadequate artist, with a history of Banksy coattail-riding and amateur attempts at media manipulation;
(ii) my fixation with Banksy has been documented for at least 13 years โ including with a rather sad "Mason Knows" hype campaign, and the work below from circa 2007:
www.flickr.com/photos/25770208@N03/2423047664/
In addition, assume the following:
(iii) I am both short on cash and really, really want to be talked about (even by forced association with a famous artist who actually has talent);
(iv) I get a section of Devolved Parliament cheaply copied after, say, making contact online with a business from Dafen Oil Painting Village in Shenzhen, China;
(v) the reproduction has some deliberate, noticeable differences to the original image, adding credence to the false notion that (rather than being just a copy) the new painting is actually an early study for Devolved Parliament; and
(vi) when announcing my print release on Instagram, I make cynically ambiguous comments about the copy painting being an "oil sketch" or a "reference for another painting" โ to further imply a genuine Banksy connection and therefore to further mislead my target market, i.e. the more ignorant or naive among collectors of Banksy art and ephemera.
Now, then:
Despite my previous history of playing Banksy enthusiasts for fools, query whether I might be able to repeat the process yet again.
Will my new efforts described in (iv), (v) and (vi) above suffice at deceiving enough patsies to ensure that my prints sell out next week?
Thus far, things are looking very good. My faith in stupidity remains intact.
Well, there you have it, Ladies and Gentlemen. There you have it. You see how far the termites have spread, and how long and well they've dined.JFC. With apologies for the exasperated tone, what is this rubbish? __________ The most disheartening aspect about the thread is the general absence of scepticism being expressed by members. There's even a link to a hack-journalism piece โ quite possibly paid for, and reading in part like PR guff or paraphrased press releases from a gallery or artist. And this has been posted as if it were a researched news article. Frankly, that amounts to confusing clickbait for legitimate, reliable sources of information. Mental faculties and senses seem to have been dullened (whether by age-related forgetfulness, sedentariness, physical comfort and/or jadedness) โ to the point where some members appear to accept at face value a narrative being presented to them by those with vested interests. And, for that matter, obvious vested interests. __________ Why are there so few posts challenging this rot? Where has our attitude of "Question everything!" disappeared to? Who is asking, "Cui bono?"It's not as if these types of shenanigans are unfamiliar to longstanding members. We've already been exposed, multiple times, to parasitic dross and deceptive marketing from pedlars of the likes of Outis, Gonefellow, Ted Patrick and Mrs Banksy. But also from Mason Storm himself. Remember he's a recidivist. Storm has always reeked of the need to appear relevant, if only by proxy. ____________________ Let's consider things a different way, with a partial thought experiment, to drum home the point. Imagine for this purpose that:(i) it is I who is the inadequate artist, with a history of Ban ksy coattail-riding and amateur attempts at media manipulation; (ii) my fixation with Ban ksy has been documented for at least 13 years โ including with a rather sad "Mason Knows" hype campaign, and the work below from circa 2007: www.flickr.com/photos/25770208@N03/2423047664/In addition, assume the following:(iii) I am both short on cash and really, really want to be talked about (even by forced association with a famous artist who actually has talent); (iv) I get a section of Devolved Parliament cheaply copied after, say, making contact online with a business from Dafen Oil Painting Village in Shenzhen, China; (v) the reproduction has some deliberate, noticeable differences to the original image, adding credence to the false notion that (rather than being just a copy) the new painting is actually an early study for Devolved Parliament; and (vi) when announcing my print release on Insta gram, I make cynically ambiguous comments about the copy painting being an "oil sketch" or a "reference for another painting" โ to further imply a genuine Ban ksy connection and therefore to further mislead my target market, i.e. the more ignorant or naive among collectors of Ban ksy art and ephemera. Now, then:Despite my previous history of playing Ban ksy enthusiasts for fools, query whether I might be able to repeat the process yet again. Will my new efforts described in (iv), (v) and (vi) above suffice at deceiving enough patsies to ensure that my prints sell out next week? Thus far, things are looking very good. My faith in stupidity remains intact.
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met
Junior Member
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June 2009
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Banksy - GDP Croydon - All Three Prints - Framed, by met on Nov 6, 2020 4:43:20 GMT 1, Banksy - GDP croydon - Full Set Prints - Framed. All three prints from Croydon, gross domestic product. Banksy had his show here in October 2019. All prints are framed already - all original - one time on eBay Link: www.ebay.nl/itm/154171805155Order PM me on this page.
________________
@mauriceuk Are you the same person selling these on Marktplaats (Dutch eBay)? These are listed there, along with a GDP tagged canSeller is called Michael Not sure why you are called maurice"uk" ๐ค www.marktplaats.nl/u/eigenplectrum/4316394/
That GDP can looks fake to me. The tag too.
urbanartassociation.com/thread/159909/banksy-gross-domestic-product?page=452&scrollTo=1937828
Iโm in search of a spray can if anyone hears of one that may become available. Looking for one as well
________________
It does appear as if the eBay and Marktplaats accounts belong to the same user.
However, I don't see the GDP tagged spraycan on Marktplaats anymore. Besides the helpfully-saved photo, did anyone take a screenshot of the listing?
My interest is whether the counterfeit spraycan was falsely described as "Unieke" (Unique) or "Origineel" (Original) โ like the counterfeit Banksy Keep Left sticker that is currently still listed for โฌ250.00.
www.marktplaats.nl/a/antiek-en-kunst/kunst-overige/m1622075539-banksy-keep-left-sticker.html
Banksy - GDP croydon - Full Set Prints - Framed. All three prints from Croydon, gross domestic product. Banksy had his show here in October 2019. All prints are framed already - all original - one time on eBay Link: www.ebay.nl/itm/154171805155Order PM me on this page. ________________ @mauriceuk Are you the same person selling these on Marktplaats (Dutch eBay)? These are listed there, along with a GDP tagged canSeller is called Michael Not sure why you are called maurice"uk" ๐ค www.marktplaats.nl/u/eigenplectrum/4316394/That GDP can looks fake to me. The tag too. urbanartassociation.com/thread/159909/banksy-gross-domestic-product?page=452&scrollTo=1937828Iโm in search of a spray can if anyone hears of one that may become available. Looking for one as well ________________ It does appear as if the eB ay and Marktplaats accounts belong to the same user. However, I don't see the GDP tagged spraycan on Marktplaats anymore. Besides the helpfully-saved photo, did anyone take a screenshot of the listing? My interest is whether the counterfeit spraycan was falsely described as "Unieke" (Unique) or "Origineel" (Original) โ like the counterfeit Ban ksy Keep Left sticker that is currently still listed for โฌ250.00. www.marktplaats.nl/a/antiek-en-kunst/kunst-overige/m1622075539-banksy-keep-left-sticker.html
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met
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June 2009
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Banksy Black Spray Can, Gross Domestic Productโข, by met on Nov 6, 2020 2:56:54 GMT 1, Cheers to you both, ctvicious and @jamesrodriguez, for actually identifying the individual. It lets readers know whom in particular to look out for, which will reduce their likelihood of getting conned. The willingness to name wrongdoers also has a valuable dissuasive effect. For the scammer who's been named. But for others as well, who may be thinking about committing fraud, but fear the repercussions of public exposure. A scammer's position is strongest when they can rely on the [hesitant / embarrassed / cowardly] silence and lack of civic-mindedness of the people they encounter. Met, I don't think people are connecting the dots to how damaging this interest in non pest control coa items is. There is no audit trail for items. You can have legitimate receipts and tubes and whatever else people are making up, but nothing ties that to the actual item. There is no chain of trust. Even if you're buying for a trusted member, why would someone buy from the next person? No real auction house will sell non pest control coa items in the future.
Agreed that the risk may be significant, or (depending on the particular items that are outside the remit of Pest Control Office COAs) possibly substantial.
When viewing the completed sales on platforms such as eBay, Catawiki, Artsy and Invaluable, it can be thoroughly depressing. There must be dozens of collectors getting ripped off each day.
Adding to my cynicism, I've seen victims make the switch and become perpetrators of fraud. After realising they were conned, some will try to offload their purchases onto others, using similar misdescriptions and misleading text as the original fraudsters.
Moreover, as previously emphasised (including here), issues can arise even if purchasing from longstanding, honest members who are selling in good faith โ since they too may be the unwitting dupes of an earlier seller who lacked integrity.
That said, there are only so many times you can warn people about the number of convincing fake Banksys on the market before you start sounding like a broken record. One quickly reaches the point of diminishing returns.
I do try to vary the tone and format of my words of caution regarding counterfeits. But I'm also convinced people often need to make their own mistakes. And those mistakes tend to be the most effective teachers.
Cheers to you both, ctvicious and @jamesrodriguez, for actually identifying the individual. It lets readers know whom in particular to look out for, which will reduce their likelihood of getting conned. The willingness to name wrongdoers also has a valuable dissuasive effect. For the scammer who's been named. But for others as well, who may be thinking about committing fraud, but fear the repercussions of public exposure. A scammer's position is strongest when they can rely on the [hesitant / embarrassed / cowardly] silence and lack of civic-mindedness of the people they encounter. Met, I don't think people are connecting the dots to how damaging this interest in non pest control coa items is. There is no audit trail for items. You can have legitimate receipts and tubes and whatever else people are making up, but nothing ties that to the actual item. There is no chain of trust. Even if you're buying for a trusted member, why would someone buy from the next person? No real auction house will sell non pest control coa items in the future. Agreed that the risk may be significant, or (depending on the particular items that are outside the remit of Pest Control Office COAs) possibly substantial. When viewing the completed sales on platforms such as eB ay, Cata wiki, Artsy and Invaluable, it can be thoroughly depressing. There must be dozens of collectors getting ripped off each day. Adding to my cynicism, I've seen victims make the switch and become perpetrators of fraud. After realising they were conned, some will try to offload their purchases onto others, using similar misdescriptions and misleading text as the original fraudsters. Moreover, as previously emphasised (including here), issues can arise even if purchasing from longstanding, honest members who are selling in good faith โ since they too may be the unwitting dupes of an earlier seller who lacked integrity. That said, there are only so many times you can warn people about the number of convincing fake Ban ksys on the market before you start sounding like a broken record. One quickly reaches the point of diminishing returns. I do try to vary the tone and format of my words of caution regarding counterfeits. But I'm also convinced people often need to make their own mistakes. And those mistakes tend to be the most effective teachers.
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met
Junior Member
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June 2009
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Banksy Black Spray Can, Gross Domestic Productโข, by met on Nov 6, 2020 1:04:32 GMT 1, His name is Chris Hardie from Wales
THERE ARE SOME VERY GOOD FAKES GOING AROUND AT THE MOMEMT FROM A WELSH BLOKE - ACHILLE JONES
PLEASE BE CAREFUL Just read the thread FFS] All fakes have these emails - tag and packaging. Donโt be fooled. The dealers name is
Chris Hardie He has scammed 2 people I know of out of a Banksy black can. He is producing them from home. I have his address and all details relating to this. There is currently a criminal investigation filed against him. It it's just on Action Fraud they will do nothing. Agreed. Not a lot you can do apart from stopping others giving money to this low life. He also goes by a name of
ACHILLE JONES
Cheers to you both, ctvicious and @jamesrodriguez, for actually identifying the individual.
It lets readers know whom in particular to look out for, which will reduce their likelihood of getting conned.
The willingness to name wrongdoers also has a valuable dissuasive effect. For the scammer who's been named. But for others as well, who may be thinking about committing fraud, but fear the repercussions of public exposure.
A scammer's position is strongest when they can rely on the [hesitant / embarrassed / cowardly] silence and lack of civic-mindedness of the people they encounter.
His name is Chris Hardie from WalesTHERE ARE SOME VERY GOOD FAKES GOING AROUND AT THE MOMEMT FROM A WELSH BLOKE - ACHILLE JONES
PLEASE BE CAREFUL Just read the thread FFS] All fakes have these emails - tag and packaging. Donโt be fooled. The dealers name is
Chris Hardie He has scammed 2 people I know of out of a Banksy black can. He is producing them from home. I have his address and all details relating to this. There is currently a criminal investigation filed against him. It it's just on Action Fraud they will do nothing. Agreed. Not a lot you can do apart from stopping others giving money to this low life. He also goes by a name of
ACHILLE JONESCheers to you both, ctvicious and @jamesrodriguez, for actually identifying the individual. It lets readers know whom in particular to look out for, which will reduce their likelihood of getting conned. The willingness to name wrongdoers also has a valuable dissuasive effect. For the scammer who's been named. But for others as well, who may be thinking about committing fraud, but fear the repercussions of public exposure. A scammer's position is strongest when they can rely on the [hesitant / embarrassed / cowardly] silence and lack of civic-mindedness of the people they encounter.
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met
Junior Member
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June 2009
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Goodies you forgot you had.., by met on Nov 5, 2020 23:28:16 GMT 1, Back in 2013, during Banksy's Better Out Than In show, I purchased a 'Graffiti Is A Crime' metal sign. I tucked it away and forgot about it, pulled it out recently to check it out... looks identical to the sign that was part of the piece. Anybody know anything about this? Anybody else have one? There are similarities โ but only when comparing your purchase against a low-res context photo of the Ban ksy, just as you're trying to do now. In reality, the pieces are far from identical. This looks to me like poetic justice. Here is the narrative: An individual believed they were buying a single part of a larger work that was immediately ruined when that part of it was stolen. They were therefore happy to encourage and condone the destruction / theft of str eet art when it was in their selfish interest. That individual ends up getting both duped and ripped off by a fraudster, who actually sold them a fake "stolen" piece. It's a rather satisfying story. I find it almost uplifting. EDIT:
A mea culpa should be added if your intentions were misread by me.
The metal sign may well have been sold in multiples as a commemorative-style knockoff โ i.e. not actually misrepresented as the genuine piece. The text reference at its base, "Banksy Better Out Than In", would suggest this.
If that is indeed the case, then please accept my apologies.Yeah, I was well aware that that this was not the original when I bought it. It was part of a replica run that I bought as a souvenir for my daughter to commemorate our Banksy hunting adventure in NYC. You're edit is the correct version of the story.
Thank you for the clarification with accompanying photos. And sorry again for my initial mixup regarding your motives.
I should also mention that the poised, non-defensive tone of your reply was refreshing as well as appreciated.
Back in 2013, during Banksy's Better Out Than In show, I purchased a 'Graffiti Is A Crime' metal sign. I tucked it away and forgot about it, pulled it out recently to check it out... looks identical to the sign that was part of the piece. Anybody know anything about this? Anybody else have one? There are similarities โ but only when comparing your purchase against a low-res context photo of the Ban ksy, just as you're trying to do now. In reality, the pieces are far from identical. This looks to me like poetic justice. Here is the narrative: An individual believed they were buying a single part of a larger work that was immediately ruined when that part of it was stolen. They were therefore happy to encourage and condone the destruction / theft of str eet art when it was in their selfish interest. That individual ends up getting both duped and ripped off by a fraudster, who actually sold them a fake "stolen" piece. It's a rather satisfying story. I find it almost uplifting. EDIT:
A mea culpa should be added if your intentions were misread by me.
The metal sign may well have been sold in multiples as a commemorative-style knockoff โ i.e. not actually misrepresented as the genuine piece. The text reference at its base, "Banksy Better Out Than In", would suggest this.
If that is indeed the case, then please accept my apologies.Yeah, I was well aware that that this was not the original when I bought it. It was part of a replica run that I bought as a souvenir for my daughter to commemorate our Banksy hunting adventure in NYC. You're edit is the correct version of the story. Thank you for the clarification with accompanying photos. And sorry again for my initial mixup regarding your motives. I should also mention that the poised, non-defensive tone of your reply was refreshing as well as appreciated.
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met
Junior Member
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June 2009
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Jammie Holmes - Pop Gun, by met on Oct 23, 2020 12:53:33 GMT 1, Itโs a tough one... Poor form on the person discussing the actual quality of the print? Or poor form on the person flipping it a month later, when there may very well also be a โno-resell for one yearโ clause attached to it? All of their stuff coming out now seems to have this stated. I know itโs the age old debate between flipping and not, but maybe this isnโt the best place to โadvertiseโ flips? If someone posts an โIn Search Ofโ and you reach out privately, thatโs different. The blatant straight up flipping seems to just ruffle feathers. Carry on, and GLWTS. His work is really great!
This is possibly a failure to see the wood for the trees.
Rather than focusing on flipping or quality of printing, my recommendation would be to first have a proper look at Jammie Holmes's body of work.
That work to me is embarrassing. Not merely derivative in style, but hackneyed. It's at the level of an art college portfolio-preparation course โ with all of the clichรฉs and immediately-obvious influences one would expect from that.
As with Mr. Brainwash or the Connor Brothers, I ascribe a large part of Holmes's present commercial appeal to art-historical ignorance by the market. And herd mentality, i.e. people being far-too-easily swayed (whether by fellow collectors, the artist's representation, or fawning media / social media coverage) and buying with their ears.
__________
Below are sample paintings featured in a 2019 softball interview with Holmes. If members are able to view such Basquiat-parody amateurism without discomfort, then their threshold for pain is impressively high:
voyagedallas.com/interview/check-jammie-holmess-artwork/
Itโs a tough one... Poor form on the person discussing the actual quality of the print? Or poor form on the person flipping it a month later, when there may very well also be a โno-resell for one yearโ clause attached to it? All of their stuff coming out now seems to have this stated. I know itโs the age old debate between flipping and not, but maybe this isnโt the best place to โadvertiseโ flips? If someone posts an โIn Search Ofโ and you reach out privately, thatโs different. The blatant straight up flipping seems to just ruffle feathers. Carry on, and GLWTS. His work is really great! This is possibly a failure to see the wood for the trees. Rather than focusing on flipping or quality of printing, my recommendation would be to first have a proper look at Jammie Holmes's body of work. That work to me is embarrassing. Not merely derivative in style, but hackneyed. It's at the level of an art college portfolio-preparation course โ with all of the clichรฉs and immediately-obvious influences one would expect from that. As with Mr. Brainwash or the Connor Brothers, I ascribe a large part of Holmes's present commercial appeal to art-historical ignorance by the market. And herd mentality, i.e. people being far-too-easily swayed (whether by fellow collectors, the artist's representation, or fawning media / social media coverage) and buying with their ears. __________ Below are sample paintings featured in a 2019 softball interview with Holmes. If members are able to view such Bas quiat-parody amateurism without discomfort, then their threshold for pain is impressively high: voyagedallas.com/interview/check-jammie-holmess-artwork/
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,706
Likes โข 6,394
June 2009
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Goodies you forgot you had.., by met on Oct 23, 2020 7:53:36 GMT 1, Back in 2013, during Banksy's Better Out Than In show, I purchased a 'Graffiti Is A Crime' metal sign. I tucked it away and forgot about it, pulled it out recently to check it out... looks identical to the sign that was part of the piece. Anybody know anything about this? Anybody else have one?
There are similarities โ but only when comparing your purchase against a low-res context photo of the Banksy, just as you're trying to do now.
In reality, the pieces are far from identical.
This looks to me like poetic justice.
Here is the narrative:
An individual believed they were buying a single part of a larger work that was immediately ruined when that part of it was stolen. They were therefore happy to encourage and condone the destruction / theft of street art when it was in their selfish interest.
That individual ends up getting both duped and ripped off by a fraudster, who actually sold them a fake "stolen" piece.
It's a rather satisfying story. I find it almost uplifting.
EDIT:
A mea culpa should be added if your intentions were misread by me.
The metal sign may well have been sold in multiples as a commemorative-style knockoff โ i.e. not actually misrepresented as the genuine piece. The text reference at its base, "Banksy Better Out Than In", would suggest this.
If that is indeed the case, then please accept my apologies.
Back in 2013, during Banksy's Better Out Than In show, I purchased a 'Graffiti Is A Crime' metal sign. I tucked it away and forgot about it, pulled it out recently to check it out... looks identical to the sign that was part of the piece. Anybody know anything about this? Anybody else have one? There are similarities โ but only when comparing your purchase against a low-res context photo of the Ban ksy, just as you're trying to do now. In reality, the pieces are far from identical. This looks to me like poetic justice. Here is the narrative: An individual believed they were buying a single part of a larger work that was immediately ruined when that part of it was stolen. They were therefore happy to encourage and condone the destruction / theft of str eet art when it was in their selfish interest. That individual ends up getting both duped and ripped off by a fraudster, who actually sold them a fake "stolen" piece. It's a rather satisfying story. I find it almost uplifting. EDIT:
A mea culpa should be added if your intentions were misread by me.
The metal sign may well have been sold in multiples as a commemorative-style knockoff โ i.e. not actually misrepresented as the genuine piece. The text reference at its base, "Banksy Better Out Than In", would suggest this.
If that is indeed the case, then please accept my apologies.
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,706
Likes โข 6,394
June 2009
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James Randi - The Amazing Randi (1928โ2020), by met on Oct 22, 2020 11:12:02 GMT 1, James Randi, a titan in the field of rational thinking, scepticism and the debunking of paranormal scams, died on Tuesday, 20 October.
apnews.com/article/james-randi-uri-geller-us-news-johnny-carson-8b14c7fe50695303efd0ddd029e68f18
__________
The videos below, first posted in 2017*, continue to be relevant and are worthy of another watch:
Secrets of the Psychics - James Randi Documentary [54:17] โ uploaded by dickies docos
Homeopathy, quackery and fraud | James Randi [17:50] โ uploaded by TED
James Randi, a titan in the field of rational thinking, scepticism and the debunking of paranormal scams, died on Tuesday, 20 October. apnews.com/article/james-randi-uri-geller-us-news-johnny-carson-8b14c7fe50695303efd0ddd029e68f18__________ The videos below, first posted in 2017 *, continue to be relevant and are worthy of another watch: Secrets of the Psychics - James Randi Documentary [54:17] โ uploaded by dickies docosHomeopathy, quackery and fraud | James Randi [17:50] โ uploaded by TED
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,706
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June 2009
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Your latest Art Purchase?, by met on Oct 19, 2020 7:16:35 GMT 1, JMB mixed media post cards, circa 1981, 1982. Authenticated by the estate of JMB. Although both cards look off to my layperson's eye, no doubt you completed your due diligence โ including verifying the genuineness of the accompanying certificates from the Authentication Committee of the Estate of Jean-Michel Bas quiat (such certificates often being faked). I'm guessing the Estate is able to confirm specific authentications previously issued by the Authentication Committee before the latter disbanded in 2012. Acquired by the collector who had them authenticated with invoices of authorization. Thank you for the follow-up. My earlier post was written with deliberate restraint. The idea was just to probe first, while still highlighting the pervasiveness of counterfeiting in the Bas quiat market. In an effort to retain an initial tone of relative calm, I described these two cards as simply looking "off" to me โ deleting my original, more candid reference to "patently off". Given the level of risk with Bas quiat-attributed work, I believe your checks in this instance were insufficiently thorough. The supporting documentation in your possession also seems inconclusive since it could easily have been forged. __________ You mentioned both of these cards have been authenticated by the Estate of Jean-Michel Basquiat. Although the Estate has long stopped issuing new authentications, my assumption is that it should be able to quickly confirm the genuineness of previously-issued authentication certificates for specified artworks. Such a service is presumably relied upon by all reputable auction houses and dealers. I strongly recommend that you immediately seek out this confirmation by the Estate, if only for peace of mind. In parallel, the cards and their accompanying paperwork can be taken to the appropriate departments at Christie's or Sotheby's for their expert corroborating opinions. If neither path offers you clear written reassurance as to authenticity, then you have almost certainly purchased fakes and should be looking to claim your money back. Good luck with your efforts. Or in summary theyโre fake as f**k. Nope ๐๐ผ
The helpful simplicity of your position is that your two cards were purportedly already authenticated by the Authentication Committee of the Estate of Jean-Michel Basquiat.
This is a great advantage, since both authentications can therefore be independently verified by the Estate itself โ i.e. without you having to place any reliance on (or blind faith in) the assurances or paperwork offered by your seller.
All the Estate should need from you is a copy of the signed and dated letter certificates previously issued by the Authentication Committee for the cards. Each of your certificates will have:
(i) a transaction number; (ii) the details (title, date, medium, size) of the relevant card; (iii) an accompanying photograph; and (iv) a statement along the lines of, "This will certify that the Authentication Committee of the Estate of Jean-Michel Basquiat has examined the work identified above, and is of the opinion that it is a genuine work by Jean-Michel Basquiat."
The Estate can then just cross-reference the information against its own records.
I hope the verification process regarding authenticity will be a smooth one for you.
JMB mixed media post cards, circa 1981, 1982. Authenticated by the estate of JMB. Although both cards look off to my layperson's eye, no doubt you completed your due diligence โ including verifying the genuineness of the accompanying certificates from the Authentication Committee of the Estate of Jean-Michel Bas quiat (such certificates often being faked). I'm guessing the Estate is able to confirm specific authentications previously issued by the Authentication Committee before the latter disbanded in 2012. Acquired by the collector who had them authenticated with invoices of authorization. Thank you for the follow-up. My earlier post was written with deliberate restraint. The idea was just to probe first, while still highlighting the pervasiveness of counterfeiting in the Bas quiat market. In an effort to retain an initial tone of relative calm, I described these two cards as simply looking "off" to me โ deleting my original, more candid reference to "patently off". Given the level of risk with Bas quiat-attributed work, I believe your checks in this instance were insufficiently thorough. The supporting documentation in your possession also seems inconclusive since it could easily have been forged. __________ You mentioned both of these cards have been authenticated by the Estate of Jean-Michel Basquiat. Although the Estate has long stopped issuing new authentications, my assumption is that it should be able to quickly confirm the genuineness of previously-issued authentication certificates for specified artworks. Such a service is presumably relied upon by all reputable auction houses and dealers. I strongly recommend that you immediately seek out this confirmation by the Estate, if only for peace of mind. In parallel, the cards and their accompanying paperwork can be taken to the appropriate departments at Christie's or Sotheby's for their expert corroborating opinions. If neither path offers you clear written reassurance as to authenticity, then you have almost certainly purchased fakes and should be looking to claim your money back. Good luck with your efforts. Or in summary theyโre fake as f**k. Nope ๐๐ผ The helpful simplicity of your position is that your two cards were purportedly already authenticated by the Authentication Committee of the Estate of Jean-Michel Bas quiat. This is a great advantage, since both authentications can therefore be independently verified by the Estate itself โ i.e. without you having to place any reliance on (or blind faith in) the assurances or paperwork offered by your seller. All the Estate should need from you is a copy of the signed and dated letter certificates previously issued by the Authentication Committee for the cards. Each of your certificates will have: (i) a transaction number; (ii) the details (title, date, medium, size) of the relevant card; (iii) an accompanying photograph; and (iv) a statement along the lines of, "This will certify that the Authentication Committee of the Estate of Jean-Michel Basquiat has examined the work identified above, and is of the opinion that it is a genuine work by Jean-Michel Basquiat." The Estate can then just cross-reference the information against its own records. I hope the verification process regarding authenticity will be a smooth one for you.
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,706
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June 2009
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Your latest Art Purchase?, by met on Oct 18, 2020 7:22:34 GMT 1, JMB mixed media post cards, circa 1981, 1982. Authenticated by the estate of JMB. Although both cards look off to my layperson's eye, no doubt you completed your due diligence โ including verifying the genuineness of the accompanying certificates from the Authentication Committee of the Estate of Jean-Michel Bas quiat (such certificates often being faked). I'm guessing the Estate is able to confirm specific authentications previously issued by the Authentication Committee before the latter disbanded in 2012. Acquired by the collector who had them authenticated with invoices of authorization.
Thank you for the follow-up.
My earlier post was written with deliberate restraint. The idea was just to probe first, while still highlighting the pervasiveness of counterfeiting in the Basquiat market. In an effort to retain an initial tone of relative calm, I described these two cards as simply looking "off" to me โ deleting my original, more candid reference to "patently off".
Given the level of risk with Basquiat-attributed work, I believe your checks in this instance were insufficiently thorough. The supporting documentation in your possession also seems inconclusive since it could easily have been forged.
__________
You mentioned both of these cards have been authenticated by the Estate of Jean-Michel Basquiat. Although the Estate has long stopped issuing new authentications, my assumption is that it should be able to quickly confirm the genuineness of previously-issued authentication certificates for specified artworks. Such a service is presumably relied upon by all reputable auction houses and dealers.
I strongly recommend that you immediately seek out this confirmation by the Estate, if only for peace of mind. In parallel, the cards and their accompanying paperwork can be taken to the appropriate departments at Christie's or Sotheby's for their expert corroborating opinions.
If neither path offers you clear written reassurance as to authenticity, then you have almost certainly purchased fakes and should be looking to claim your money back.
Good luck with your efforts.
JMB mixed media post cards, circa 1981, 1982. Authenticated by the estate of JMB. Although both cards look off to my layperson's eye, no doubt you completed your due diligence โ including verifying the genuineness of the accompanying certificates from the Authentication Committee of the Estate of Jean-Michel Bas quiat (such certificates often being faked). I'm guessing the Estate is able to confirm specific authentications previously issued by the Authentication Committee before the latter disbanded in 2012. Acquired by the collector who had them authenticated with invoices of authorization. Thank you for the follow-up. My earlier post was written with deliberate restraint. The idea was just to probe first, while still highlighting the pervasiveness of counterfeiting in the Bas quiat market. In an effort to retain an initial tone of relative calm, I described these two cards as simply looking "off" to me โ deleting my original, more candid reference to "patently off". Given the level of risk with Bas quiat-attributed work, I believe your checks in this instance were insufficiently thorough. The supporting documentation in your possession also seems inconclusive since it could easily have been forged. __________ You mentioned both of these cards have been authenticated by the Estate of Jean-Michel Basquiat. Although the Estate has long stopped issuing new authentications, my assumption is that it should be able to quickly confirm the genuineness of previously-issued authentication certificates for specified artworks. Such a service is presumably relied upon by all reputable auction houses and dealers. I strongly recommend that you immediately seek out this confirmation by the Estate, if only for peace of mind. In parallel, the cards and their accompanying paperwork can be taken to the appropriate departments at Christie's or Sotheby's for their expert corroborating opinions. If neither path offers you clear written reassurance as to authenticity, then you have almost certainly purchased fakes and should be looking to claim your money back. Good luck with your efforts.
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,706
Likes โข 6,394
June 2009
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Your latest Art Purchase?, by met on Oct 17, 2020 22:10:32 GMT 1, JMB mixed media post cards, circa 1981, 1982. Authenticated by the estate of JMB.
Although both cards look off to my layperson's eye, no doubt you completed your due diligence โ including verifying the genuineness of the accompanying certificates from the Authentication Committee of the Estate of Jean-Michel Basquiat (such certificates often being faked).
I'm guessing the Estate is able to confirm specific authentications previously issued by the Authentication Committee before the latter disbanded in 2012.
JMB mixed media post cards, circa 1981, 1982. Authenticated by the estate of JMB. Although both cards look off to my layperson's eye, no doubt you completed your due diligence โ including verifying the genuineness of the accompanying certificates from the Authentication Committee of the Estate of Jean-Michel Bas quiat (such certificates often being faked). I'm guessing the Estate is able to confirm specific authentications previously issued by the Authentication Committee before the latter disbanded in 2012.
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,706
Likes โข 6,394
June 2009
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New Banksy in Nottingham , by met on Oct 15, 2020 2:37:40 GMT 1, What do you guys think? Feet, hands, wit, stencil style- checks off a lot of boxes
Great shots. Thank you for posting.
Having quickly skimmed through the thread, I am puzzled by some of the comments claiming this piece isn't by Banksy, or expressing serious doubt regarding attribution.
Assuming just for the sake of argument that such comments were made in good faith, what they suggest to me is a lack of familiarity with the artist's work. And on multiple counts โ the main ones being:
(i) overall aesthetic or style; (ii) subject matter; (iii) tone / sentiment; (iv) thoughtfulness, cleverness, playfulness and humour (including of placement); (v) technical execution; and (vi) artistic process, medium and palette.
To my mind at least, this being the work of Banksy is self-evident.
What do you guys think? Feet, hands, wit, stencil style- checks off a lot of boxes Great shots. Thank you for posting. Having quickly skimmed through the thread, I am puzzled by some of the comments claiming this piece isn't by Banksy, or expressing serious doubt regarding attribution. Assuming just for the sake of argument that such comments were made in good faith, what they suggest to me is a lack of familiarity with the artist's work. And on multiple counts โ the main ones being: (i) overall aesthetic or style; (ii) subject matter; (iii) tone / sentiment; (iv) thoughtfulness, cleverness, playfulness and humour (including of placement); (v) technical execution; and (vi) artistic process, medium and palette. To my mind at least, this being the work of Ban ksy is self-evident.
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met
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June 2009
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Banksy Radar Rat โข Dirty Funker 12", by met on Oct 14, 2020 9:55:45 GMT 1, Hi was hoping someone around here could shine a little light on this print which i have come across,its not signed but is numbered with pow stamp...is it a good fake or the real deal..thanks in advance well in the end of the day i was going to ask pc but just said i would throw it out to the forum first,and Spenie should have a good knowledge of all that is Banksy so i think he might be right but before it goes in the folder of WPC i think i will run it by PC here a close up of the stamp
fwiw ... it does looks interesting.... however - the size is slightly dubious in terms of scale. pc - would have an idea and dare i say it a view , the rr/s is pretty well unheard of now a days (rr/u ... pretty well unknown.. craigf has seen one.. ! ) .. i remember one or two folks here had one.. but that is WAY back. (iirc foundation?) good luck with your dig and let us know.. singerstu @coach met - thoughts ?
didn't you also just happen to 'come across' an equally suspicious Grin Reaper. Is there something you're not telling us? yes i did and much more,so i have come across something of an aladdins cave of prints lately which i am trying to investigate the true orgins of theses gems of gold or maybe lumps of coal....i am not trying to sell...there is a back story how theses prints were required but its not from the first source but i will tell that later...many of these prints are siged but not numbered and some do not even have a stamp but do have a signed but not ap or pp marking
Two problems here - 1. There is only one unsigned Radar Rat. 2. if you compare it to an authentic piece you'll see the feet are very different. Which means this is a fake. Someone has gone to a lot of trouble to defraud, not just producing a fake print but getting the POW stamp made.
kaos is correct. This is a counterfeit Banksy Radar Rat, with a counterfeit Pictures On Walls blindstamp.
The attention to detail is at a level comparable to work churned out by a thief like The West Country Prince.
Multiple obvious tells exist. There follows just one example. Focus on the screenprinting, and ignore the spraypaint. tinkicker's fake is on the left. An authentic version is on the right:
__________
Sounds like this may have been a standard, even mundane, case:
1. Fraudster spots a mark.
2. Fraudster quickly recognises the naivety and knowledge limitations of their mark.
3. Fraudster exploits that ignorance to offload fakes.
Very often, little more is required than a plausible fabricated backstory and basic psychological tactics.
The job of selling fakes is made simpler if dealing with someone who's blinded by greed or wishful thinking. Such a buyer smells of desperation; they can be played with greater ease.
Scammers may also feign being dim. The idea is to trigger and lower the guard of predatory buyers โ i.e. those keen to take advantage of sellers who seem a bit clueless about what they appear to be selling (or about its true value if it were genuine). No doubt a scammer's rationalisation process is smoother in these cases than when they're ripping off "innocent" buyers.
__________
The Grin Reaper and CND Soldiers look dodgy to me as well, notwithstanding the competently-reproduced signatures.
Without having seen these two pieces in person, I wouldn't actually stake my home on them being fake. However, I would be comfortable placing a large bet, and giving the other side five-to-one odds.
If they are authentic, they were created using different, lower-resolution screens to the regular editions. But the likelihood of this being true seems remote.
__________
tinkicker โ By all means, ask Pest Control Office for separate confirmation.
In my view, there also exists a duty to notify PCO of the following:
(i) how you ended up in possession of these counterfeit Banksys;
(ii) where and when you acquired them;
(iii) from whom you acquired them, along with any other details available regarding chain of ownership / provenance;
(iv) how much you paid for them; and
(v) to the best of your knowledge, how many other such pieces exist from the same source(s), and/or are currently in circulation, and/or were offered to you for sale.
Hi was hoping someone around here could shine a little light on this print which i have come across,its not signed but is numbered with pow stamp...is it a good fake or the real deal..thanks in advance well in the end of the day i was going to ask pc but just said i would throw it out to the forum first,and Spenie should have a good knowledge of all that is Banksy so i think he might be right but before it goes in the folder of WPC i think i will run it by PC here a close up of the stamp fwiw ... it does looks interesting.... however - the size is slightly dubious in terms of scale. pc - would have an idea and dare i say it a view , the rr/s is pretty well unheard of now a days (rr/u ... pretty well unknown.. craigf has seen one.. ! ) .. i remember one or two folks here had one.. but that is WAY back. (iirc foundation?) good luck with your dig and let us know.. singerstu @coach met - thoughts ? didn't you also just happen to 'come across' an equally suspicious Grin Reaper. Is there something you're not telling us? yes i did and much more,so i have come across something of an aladdins cave of prints lately which i am trying to investigate the true orgins of theses gems of gold or maybe lumps of coal....i am not trying to sell...there is a back story how theses prints were required but its not from the first source but i will tell that later...many of these prints are siged but not numbered and some do not even have a stamp but do have a signed but not ap or pp marking Two problems here - 1. There is only one unsigned Radar Rat. 2. if you compare it to an authentic piece you'll see the feet are very different. Which means this is a fake. Someone has gone to a lot of trouble to defraud, not just producing a fake print but getting the POW stamp made. kaos is correct. This is a counterfeit Ban ksy Radar Rat, with a counterfeit Pictures On Walls blindstamp. The attention to detail is at a level comparable to work churned out by a thief like The West Country Prince. Multiple obvious tells exist. There follows just one example. Focus on the screenprinting, and ignore the spraypaint. tinkicker's fake is on the left. An authentic version is on the right: __________ Sounds like this may have been a standard, even mundane, case: 1. Fraudster spots a mark. 2. Fraudster quickly recognises the naivety and knowledge limitations of their mark. 3. Fraudster exploits that ignorance to offload fakes. Very often, little more is required than a plausible fabricated backstory and basic psychological tactics. The job of selling fakes is made simpler if dealing with someone who's blinded by greed or wishful thinking. Such a buyer smells of desperation; they can be played with greater ease. Scammers may also feign being dim. The idea is to trigger and lower the guard of predatory buyers โ i.e. those keen to take advantage of sellers who seem a bit clueless about what they appear to be selling (or about its true value if it were genuine). No doubt a scammer's rationalisation process is smoother in these cases than when they're ripping off "innocent" buyers. __________ The Grin Reaper and CND Soldiers look dodgy to me as well, notwithstanding the competently-reproduced signatures. Without having seen these two pieces in person, I wouldn't actually stake my home on them being fake. However, I would be comfortable placing a large bet, and giving the other side five-to-one odds. If they are authentic, they were created using different, lower-resolution screens to the regular editions. But the likelihood of this being true seems remote. __________ tinkicker โ By all means, ask Pest Control Office for separate confirmation. In my view, there also exists a duty to notify PCO of the following: (i) how you ended up in possession of these counterfeit Ban ksys; (ii) where and when you acquired them; (iii) from whom you acquired them, along with any other details available regarding chain of ownership / provenance; (iv) how much you paid for them; and (v) to the best of your knowledge, how many other such pieces exist from the same source(s), and/or are currently in circulation, and/or were offered to you for sale.
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met
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New Canvas from French artist Malef, by met on Oct 7, 2020 9:49:21 GMT 1, Artist : Malef ( France ) Title : Apocalypto Medium : Acrylic and spray paint on canvas Size : diameter 30 cm Signed COAShipping Worldwide Pm for interest [...]
The certificate of authenticity will hopefully reassure anyone who's nervous about the risk of buying a counterfeit painting attributed to this artist.
Artist : Malef ( France ) Title : Apocalypto Medium : Acrylic and spray paint on canvas Size : diameter 30 cm Signed COAShipping Worldwide Pm for interest [...] The certificate of authenticity will hopefully reassure anyone who's nervous about the risk of buying a counterfeit painting attributed to this artist.
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met
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Sotheby's Art Auctions โข HONG KONG ๐ญ๐ฐ, by met on Oct 7, 2020 9:14:06 GMT 1, Was this is a collab with Martin whatson โthe featured work was created in 2011 with the participation of more than 100 students at the City of Angels School in a project aimed to encourage children to create artโ
My interpretation of badcollector's post is that it was knowing, a humorous commentary on the skill set of Martin Whatson.
First, it made me chuckle. But shortly afterwards I realised the stained glass windows by the schoolchildren were actually more interesting and also better executed than any work I've seen by Whatson himself.
A moment of melancholy ensued.
www.sothebys.com/en/buy/auction/2020/contemporary-art-evening-sale/banksy-ban-ke-si-forgive-us-our-trespassing-kuan
Was this is a collab with Martin whatson โthe featured work was created in 2011 with the participation of more than 100 students at the City of Angels School in a project aimed to encourage children to create artโ My interpretation of badcollector's post is that it was knowing, a humorous commentary on the skill set of Martin Whatson. First, it made me chuckle. But shortly afterwards I realised the stained glass windows by the schoolchildren were actually more interesting and also better executed than any work I've seen by What son himself. A moment of melancholy ensued. www.sothebys.com/en/buy/auction/2020/contemporary-art-evening-sale/banksy-ban-ke-si-forgive-us-our-trespassing-kuan
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met
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Eddie Martinez | work on paper for sale , by met on Oct 7, 2020 8:25:42 GMT 1, While that may be the case, from an optics perspective, it's the kind of comment best left for others to make.
While that may be the case, from an optics perspective, it's the kind of comment best left for others to make.
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met
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Mercer Auctions ๐บ๐ฒ Street Art Auctions , by met on Sept 30, 2020 6:28:48 GMT 1,
1. Forum account opened this month.
2. A total of six posts thus far.
3. Every single post linking to a crappy sale by Mercer Auctions in LA, some sketchy outfit that is:
(i) inept at curating; and
(ii) fully comfortable defrauding its customers by including blatant fakes in the sale.
4. New member choosing to shun honesty and transparency by not declaring their vested interest.
The shamelessness of it all borders on remarkable.
1. Forum account opened this month. 2. A total of six posts thus far. 3. Every single post linking to a cra ppy sale by Mercer Auctions in LA, some sketchy outfit that is: (i) inept at curating; and (ii) fully comfortable defrauding its customers by including blatant fakes in the sale. 4. New member choosing to shun honesty and transparency by not declaring their vested interest. The shamelessness of it all borders on remarkable.
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met
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SOLD
Sept 25, 2020 8:24:43 GMT 1
SOLD, by met on Sept 25, 2020 8:24:43 GMT 1, Other than having a flyer, sticker, button and physically being there, how can you tell original from fakes? For the purpose of an authenticity check, ignore the flyer, sticker and button. They are nice accompaniments, but could also be used to lower the guard of buyers and prop up the perceived genuineness of a fake Tesco Value Petrol Bomb.
The best option would be an in-person, side-by-side comparison against another poster you know to be genuine. That way, you can closely examine the detail of the offset printing, along with the dimensions, thickness, type and surface texture of the paper.
If the above option is unavailable, ask the seller for multiple high-res photos taken in focus and in natural light. Then compare those against photos of another poster you know to be genuine. Many of the fakes I've seen are quickly betrayed by their darker and less-subtly-detailed smoke areas.
Other than having a flyer, sticker, button and physically being there, how can you tell original from fakes? For the purpose of an authenticity check, ignore the flyer, sticker and button. They are nice accompaniments, but could also be used to lower the guard of buyers and prop up the perceived genuineness of a fake Tesco Value Petrol Bomb. The best option would be an in-person, side-by-side comparison against another poster you know to be genuine. That way, you can closely examine the detail of the offset printing, along with the dimensions, thickness, type and surface texture of the paper. If the above option is unavailable, ask the seller for multiple high-res photos taken in focus and in natural light. Then compare those against photos of another poster you know to be genuine. Many of the fakes I've seen are quickly betrayed by their darker and less-subtly-detailed smoke areas.
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met
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by met on Sept 25, 2020 7:33:27 GMT 1, They should employ mcgill14 , man they'd have the biggest art collection in the World in no time Yeah he'd be perfect... as long as you didn't want the biggest art collection in the world to include any people of color as subject matter! I offered to donate a print to the auction, one featuring a black youth as the main subject. Mcgill14 declined, asking if I "had anything else". There was nothing objectionable about the print I offered. However, now I have seen the items up for auction. You will notice, if you look through the lots on offer, that there is not a single person of color featured in any of these lots.
Based on the evidence you've described, the insinuation of racism here is the height of irresponsibility.
There exists any number of possible reasons why your generous donation offer was turned down. You appear to be oblivious to, or to have discounted, all of them bar one โ as if fixated.
I would encourage you to read up on the possible psychology underlying such an approach. A variety of studies demonstrate how individuals who are primed to interpret a situation as being discriminatory (racist, sexist, homophobic, etc.) will pretty much always succeed at doing so โ even in cases where no discrimination is present.
People often project their expectations or insecurities onto others, skewing reality in the process.
Greater awareness of this issue may, in the future, push you to think twice before being so reckless with the reputation of a fellow member.
They should employ mcgill14 , man they'd have the biggest art collection in the World in no time Yeah he'd be perfect... as long as you didn't want the biggest art collection in the world to include any people of color as subject matter! I offered to donate a print to the auction, one featuring a black youth as the main subject. Mcgill14 declined, asking if I "had anything else". There was nothing objectionable about the print I offered. However, now I have seen the items up for auction. You will notice, if you look through the lots on offer, that there is not a single person of color featured in any of these lots. Based on the evidence you've described, the insinuation of racism here is the height of irresponsibility. There exists any number of possible reasons why your generous donation offer was turned down. You appear to be oblivious to, or to have discounted, all of them bar one โ as if fixated. I would encourage you to read up on the possible psychology underlying such an approach. A variety of studies demonstrate how individuals who are primed to interpret a situation as being discriminatory (racist, sexist, homophobic, etc.) will pretty much always succeed at doing so โ even in cases where no discrimination is present. People often project their expectations or insecurities onto others, skewing reality in the process. Greater awareness of this issue may, in the future, push you to think twice before being so reckless with the reputation of a fellow member.
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met
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by met on Sept 25, 2020 1:48:02 GMT 1,
That Inside Edition chap from around 1:16 onwards, Sal Bono, is a chancer who's faking it and undeserving of the platform he's been given.
Leaving aside his comparatively trivial error regarding the panda with guns image (a creation of Julien Fanton DโAndon for Bad Panda Records), Bono has no proper grasp of intellectual property law.
And rather than first learning the essentials about this technical subject, including the important differences between copyright and trademarks, he chooses to wing it instead โ using the terms synonymously and sharing his thoughts to a worldwide audience as if knowing what he's talking about.
This is what the hubris of unvetted commentators looks like. It's the DunningโKruger effect in action, enabled by incompetent or lazy producers, editors and researchers.
What it results in is the unhelpful dissemination of falsehoods and misleading half-truths, often taken at face value by listeners/viewers and subsequently parroted to others.
That Inside Edition chap from around 1:16 onwards, Sal Bono, is a chancer who's faking it and undeserving of the platform he's been given. Leaving aside his comparatively trivial error regarding the panda with guns image (a creation of Julien Fanton DโAndon for Bad Panda Records), Bono has no proper grasp of intellectual property law. And rather than first learning the essentials about this technical subject, including the important differences between copyright and trademarks, he chooses to wing it instead โ using the terms synonymously and sharing his thoughts to a worldwide audience as if knowing what he's talking about. This is what the hubris of unvetted commentators looks like. It's the DunningโKruger effect in action, enabled by incompetent or lazy producers, editors and researchers. What it results in is the unhelpful dissemination of falsehoods and misleading half-truths, often taken at face value by listeners/viewers and subsequently parroted to others.
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met
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Tee Shirt, by met on Sept 24, 2020 19:25:36 GMT 1, In 2014 B M E released an offer that if you bought a tee-shirt for a water charity you would be able to purchase a new Banksy print at a reduced price. This gained momentum until eventually POW put out a statement that it wasnโt going to happen. The option was then to have your money returned or they would still send you a tee-shirt. Mine is framed by MFM with the information cards that were sent after purchase and after POWโs statement. For total authenticity I have the envelope with a LA/B M E post mark together with the bag for the tee-shirt with the same post mark. I genuinely (and have a tin hat on for some comments ) have no idea of value but am open to offers via DM
The t-shirt does have some historical interest. It shows the level that BNE chose to stoop to โ using a non-profit organisation to mislead and quite probably to defraud.
But why anyone might want a reminder of this scam hanging on their wall does puzzle me.
I would just see the item and that reference to "Thank You For Caring!" as a daily slap to the face โ the face of collectors including my own, of the artists involved or affected, and of Charity: Water whose reputation ended up tainted by the BNE association.
In 2014 B M E released an offer that if you bought a tee-shirt for a water charity you would be able to purchase a new Banksy print at a reduced price. This gained momentum until eventually POW put out a statement that it wasnโt going to happen. The option was then to have your money returned or they would still send you a tee-shirt. Mine is framed by MFM with the information cards that were sent after purchase and after POWโs statement. For total authenticity I have the envelope with a LA/B M E post mark together with the bag for the tee-shirt with the same post mark. I genuinely (and have a tin hat on for some comments ) have no idea of value but am open to offers via DM The t-shirt does have some historical interest. It shows the level that BNE chose to stoop to โ using a non-profit organisation to mislead and quite probably to defraud. But why anyone might want a reminder of this scam hanging on their wall does puzzle me. I would just see the item and that reference to "Thank You For Caring!" as a daily slap to the face โ the face of collectors including my own, of the artists involved or affected, and of Charity: Water whose reputation ended up tainted by the BN E association.
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met
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Banksy CRISIS AS USUAL Print, Gross Domestic Product , by met on Sept 23, 2020 21:01:32 GMT 1, Don't think any introduction is needed. Beautifully framed. Provenance is a good as it gets. Because I am a f**ker- offers please Located in London. Happy to ship abroad.
In your position, I'd have kept this Banksy and sold the framed Tracey Emin poster instead.
Although a similar comment was previously made*, of the three Gross Domestic Product freebies, Crisis as Usual is the sole poster that is properly standalone. It is consistent with Banksy's execution of the original(s), and consistent with his original artistic intent. None of the context has been lost. Moreover, no prior specialist knowledge is required to make sense of it.
[This is where the flowers freebie in particular fails terribly. Art-wise โ as opposed to souvenir-wise โ it seems rather pointless on its own, akin to an inside joke. If a viewer is not already familiar with the full image, they are reliant upon somebody else having to explain that what they're looking at is one third of a famous piece by a popular artist.
That, in my view, offers the flowers image little more than anecdotal merit (leaving aside any sentimental value an owner may attribute to the poster, based on their personal GDP experience). The image in isolation is hardly an artwork in itself โ at least not one capable of truly engaging uninitiated viewers in a meaningful way. Or even retaining their attention.]
Don't think any introduction is needed. Beautifully framed. Provenance is a good as it gets. Because I am a f**ker- offers please Located in London. Happy to ship abroad. In your position, I'd have kept this Banksy and sold the framed Tracey Emin poster instead. Although a similar comment was previously made *, of the three Gross Domestic Product freebies, Crisis as Usual is the sole poster that is properly standalone. It is consistent with Ban ksy's execution of the original(s), and consistent with his original artistic intent. None of the context has been lost. Moreover, no prior specialist knowledge is required to make sense of it. [This is where the flowers freebie in particular fails terribly. Art-wise โ as opposed to souvenir-wise โ it seems rather pointless on its own, akin to an inside joke. If a viewer is not already familiar with the full image, they are reliant upon somebody else having to explain that what they're looking at is one third of a famous piece by a popular artist.
That, in my view, offers the flowers image little more than anecdotal merit (leaving aside any sentimental value an owner may attribute to the poster, based on their personal GDP experience). The image in isolation is hardly an artwork in itself โ at least not one capable of truly engaging uninitiated viewers in a meaningful way. Or even retaining their attention.]
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met
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Banksy Clear Out Wall piece, posters, cards & stickers, by met on Sept 23, 2020 18:36:36 GMT 1, Didnt want to debunk the other thread selling these but have a few if people are interested to but together or seperately. I have: - 6 x moss postcards - 1 x sealed full banksy v bristol museum postcard set. - Americans working overhead sticker. - authorised graffiti area sticker. - gas pump sticker - slow children sticker - menu through letterbox sticker - tank tow sticker - bloke walking out of circle sticker I also have a yellow warning graffiti artists operate in this area which i think is mr b.
No idea what these are worth. Let me know by pm what u want to pay for one some or all and i will sell to the highest offer over the next frw days. Cheers To answer some questions:
All the stickers and most of the postards are in perfect cond. A couple of the postcards have some minor impressions on the edge that are only visible when held in a certain light.
All stickers bar the warning one have starliner backs
Approx sticker sizes:
postcard size (105mm x 150 mm) - AGA, AWO 105mm x 125mm - Slow Children and bloke in circle 120mm x 90 mm Tank Tow 105mm x 105mm Petrol Head 65mm x 70mm Letterbox 75mm x 105mm Warning
[...] All I have left now is the wall piece and the yellow warning sticker. On the latter I think it was banksy but note it has paperwindows.co.uk printed on it. Anyone recall/have this one?
The yellow warning sticker is by Paper Windows, a.k.a. Ged.*
Excellent, mate, thanks. Come on guys........I'm only asking for ยฃ1 to help a brave young lad go on a holiday of a life time
Didnt want to debunk the other thread selling these but have a few if people are interested to but together or seperately. I have: - 6 x moss postcards - 1 x sealed full banksy v bristol museum postcard set. - Americans working overhead sticker. - authorised graffiti area sticker. - gas pump sticker - slow children sticker - menu through letterbox sticker - tank tow sticker - bloke walking out of circle sticker I also have a yellow warning graffiti artists operate in this area which i think is mr b.
No idea what these are worth. Let me know by pm what u want to pay for one some or all and i will sell to the highest offer over the next frw days. Cheers To answer some questions:
All the stickers and most of the postards are in perfect cond. A couple of the postcards have some minor impressions on the edge that are only visible when held in a certain light.
All stickers bar the warning one have starliner backs
Approx sticker sizes:
postcard size (105mm x 150 mm) - AGA, AWO 105mm x 125mm - Slow Children and bloke in circle 120mm x 90 mm Tank Tow 105mm x 105mm Petrol Head 65mm x 70mm Letterbox 75mm x 105mm Warning
[...] All I have left now is the wall piece and the yellow warning sticker. On the latter I think it was banksy but note it has paperwindows.co.uk printed on it. Anyone recall/have this one? The yellow warning sticker is by Paper Windows, a.k.a. Ged. *Excellent, mate, thanks. Come on guys........I'm only asking for ยฃ1 to help a brave young lad go on a holiday of a life time
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met
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FOR SALE: Banksy (ephemera), Blek, Brainwash, PE, N Walker, by met on Sept 19, 2020 18:26:53 GMT 1, Show print SOLD subject to payment to an absolute gent who has been around on this forum for a good time and knows how to get business done. The interest in this print was OFF THE SCALE and Iโm thankful to all who offered and/or made enquires ๐ [...]
Unsurprising that the interest has been high. It's in very good shape, and part of a historical edition with an intriguing background.
Signed and probably printed by Eine โ but the image itself is apparently a Paul Insect and Banksy collaborative effort.
[Anyone referring to this piece as simply "an Eine" is arguably uninformed, or a dishonest buyer.]
www.juxtapoz.com/news/street-art/feature-a-history-of-pictures-on-walls-london-s-legendary-street-art-print-shop/
The Pictures on Walls skull and paintbrush logo was iconic and, for many, a kite mark of groundbreaking new artists. Some may not know that the logo itself was in fact a work in progress collaboration between Banksy and Paul Insect. โI had made the original image for someone else, who decided they didnโt want to use it,โ says Paul Insect, โthen Banksy saw it, loved it, and it was used as the POW logo. Over the years, it kept changing as we both kept on re-working it for various projects or when changes to the site happened, right up to the last one, which has the love and peace eyes.โ โ text by Josh Jones for Juxtapoz, 1 January 2018
This may also have been the first time POW experimented with Chromolux paper, subsequently used for Banksy's Flag print.
By way of further aside, note the misspelling of the sadly now-closed Parisian shop, Colette.
Show print SOLD subject to payment to an absolute gent who has been around on this forum for a good time and knows how to get business done. The interest in this print was OFF THE SCALE and Iโm thankful to all who offered and/or made enquires ๐ [...] Unsurprising that the interest has been high. It's in very good shape, and part of a historical edition with an intriguing background. Signed and probably printed by Eine โ but the image itself is apparently a Paul Insect and Banksy collaborative effort. [Anyone referring to this piece as simply "an Eine" is arguably uninformed, or a dishonest buyer.]www.juxtapoz.com/news/street-art/feature-a-history-of-pictures-on-walls-london-s-legendary-street-art-print-shop/The Pictures on Walls skull and paintbrush logo was iconic and, for many, a kite mark of groundbreaking new artists. Some may not know that the logo itself was in fact a work in progress collaboration between Banksy and Paul Insect. โI had made the original image for someone else, who decided they didnโt want to use it,โ says Paul Insect, โthen Banksy saw it, loved it, and it was used as the POW logo. Over the years, it kept changing as we both kept on re-working it for various projects or when changes to the site happened, right up to the last one, which has the love and peace eyes.โโ text by Josh Jones for Juxtapoz, 1 January 2018This may also have been the first time POW experimented with Chromolux paper, subsequently used for Ban ksy's Flag print. By way of further aside, note the misspelling of the sadly now-closed Parisian shop, Colette.
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