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Mrs Banksy, by met on Jul 28, 2020 23:07:34 GMT 1, Terrible image of the girl...unless it's mine that's wrong..🤔 ![](https://i.imgur.com/lo9usFZ.png)
Provided I haven't misunderstood, you may be relying on a false premise, i.e. the incorrect assumption that Banksy created only a single version of Girl with Balloon.
In this instance, the shameless Mrs Banksy ripoff is based on one of Banksy's more recent reworkings of the image — as shredded during the Sotheby's London Evening Sale on 5 October 2018.
See here for comments on some of the differences with the regular Girl with Balloon screenprint.
Terrible image of the girl...unless it's mine that's wrong..🤔 ![](https://i.imgur.com/lo9usFZ.png) Provided I haven't misunderstood, you may be relying on a false premise, i.e. the incorrect assumption that Banksy created only a single version of Girl with Balloon. In this instance, the shameless Mrs Banksy ripoff is based on one of Ban ksy's more recent reworkings of the image — as shredded during the Sotheby's London Evening Sale on 5 October 2018. See here for comments on some of the differences with the regular Girl with Balloon screenprint.
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Recommended Art Books, by met on Jul 28, 2020 16:49:28 GMT 1,
Thank you for posting.
Haven't purchased this yet, but intend to.
If a mere cover image can prompt others to do the same and even read a few pages, then that's a, er, win in my, er, book.
![](https://i.imgur.com/4srcILI.png)
I would encourage members to keep an eye on the author, Lily Cole*.
Over the years, she has repeatedly impressed me. Just the fact she co-owns a book shop* should speak, er, volumes. Her response in 2018 to criticism for being chosen as a creative partner at the Brontë Parsonage Museum to commemorate the bicentenary of Emily Brontë's birth was also beautifully handled:
www.nme.com/news/lily-cole-hits-back-at-critics-in-bronte-society-row-2206662
www.lilycole.com/what-would-emily-bront-think
__________
As for the subject matter of Cole's book, it appears comparable to one I highly recommend:
Enlightenment Now: The Case for Reason, Science, Humanism, and Progress by the rather brilliant Steven Pinker
www.amazon.co.uk/Enlightenment-Now-Science-Humanism-Progress/dp/0525427570
Here's a 2018 news interview with Pinker. The clip is superficial and brief (7:47), but still offers a reasonable overview and has the advantage of accessibility:
Steven Pinker Discusses 'Enlightenment Now' - uploaded by WGBH News on 15 May 2018
And just in case anyone requires further evidence of the present culture war between liberals and illiberals, even Pinker — who's about as thoughtful and levelheaded as a person can get — has recently been targeted by disingenuous "offence archeology" and the cretinism that is cancel culture. At the risk of being accused of hyperbole, this would arguably place us in the latter stages of First They Came.
__________
Returning to Lily Cole, before promptly going off on another tangent, she's a helpful reminder of how great a band the Yeah Yeah Yeahs are.
Yeah Yeah Yeahs - Sacrilege - uploaded by yeahyeahyeahsmusic
Thank you for posting. Haven't purchased this yet, but intend to. If a mere cover image can prompt others to do the same and even read a few pages, then that's a, er, win in my, er, book. ![](https://i.imgur.com/4srcILI.png) I would encourage members to keep an eye on the author, Lily Cole*. Over the years, she has repeatedly impressed me. Just the fact she co-owns a book shop * should speak, er, volumes. Her response in 2018 to criticism for being chosen as a creative partner at the Brontë Parsonage Museum to commemorate the bicentenary of Emily Brontë's birth was also beautifully handled: www.nme.com/news/lily-cole-hits-back-at-critics-in-bronte-society-row-2206662www.lilycole.com/what-would-emily-bront-think__________ As for the subject matter of Cole's book, it appears comparable to one I highly recommend: Enlightenment Now: The Case for Reason, Science, Humanism, and Progress by the rather brilliant Steven Pinkerwww.amazon.co.uk/Enlightenment-Now-Science-Humanism-Progress/dp/0525427570Here's a 2018 news interview with Pinker. The clip is superficial and brief (7:47), but still offers a reasonable overview and has the advantage of accessibility: Steven Pinker Discusses 'Enlightenment Now'- uploaded by WGBH News on 15 May 2018And just in case anyone requires further evidence of the present culture war between liberals and illiberals, even Pinker — who's about as thoughtful and levelheaded as a person can get — has recently been targeted by disingenuous "offence archeology" and the cretinism that is cancel culture. At the risk of being accused of hyperbole, this would arguably place us in the latter stages of First They Came. __________ Returning to Lily Cole, before promptly going off on another tangent, she's a helpful reminder of how great a band the Yeah Yeah Yeahs are. Yeah Yeah Yeahs - Sacrilege- uploaded by yeahyeahyeahsmusic
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BANKSY Gross Domestic Product™, by met on Jul 25, 2020 12:45:50 GMT 1, is anyone still waiting for unlimited items? I'm still waiting for the cushions... Very nice, I’m surprised they were not made by love welcomes too and bigger Ed unless his mums sowing them up
If genuinely surprised that the cushions were not made by Love Welcomes, then it may be helpful giving further thought to the Banksy mat.
From my perspective, the concept of the mat (and the Love Welcomes enterprise generally) could not be more elegant and coherent.
This, in terms of narrative, source-fabric used, identity of manufacturers and adversity already overcome, the hand-production aspect, destination of proceeds... And of course the end product — an item that would otherwise typically be left just outside the entrance of our home, offering a kindly greeting to persons upon their arrival:
Welcome
The message is simple and yet so magnanimous.
__________
It seems to me that the impact of the Banksy mat would be unnecessarily cheapened if Love Welcomes were also responsible for cushions displaying a flippant quip.
A lesser, separate point is that Gross Domestic Product previously confirmed the cushions would be stencil-painted "finds from the charity shop".
is anyone still waiting for unlimited items? I'm still waiting for the cushions... Very nice, I’m surprised they were not made by love welcomes too and bigger Ed unless his mums sowing them up If genuinely surprised that the cushions were not made by Love Welcomes, then it may be helpful giving further thought to the Ban ksy mat. From my perspective, the concept of the mat (and the Love Welcomes enterprise generally) could not be more elegant and coherent. This, in terms of narrative, source-fabric used, identity of manufacturers and adversity already overcome, the hand-production aspect, destination of proceeds... And of course the end product — an item that would otherwise typically be left just outside the entrance of our home, offering a kindly greeting to persons upon their arrival: Welcome The message is simple and yet so magnanimous. __________ It seems to me that the impact of the Ban ksy mat would be unnecessarily cheapened if Love Welcomes were also responsible for cushions displaying a flippant quip. A lesser, separate point is that Gross Domestic Product previously confirmed the cushions would be stencil-painted "finds from the charity shop".
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llame'kuf art during lock down, by met on Jul 25, 2020 0:48:25 GMT 1, Saudi Crown Prince can't be wrong 😂😂😂 ![](https://i.imgur.com/VCZTL05.jpg) All good fun
The artwork might even be stronger if it were turned into a diptych, by adding a stylised image of this journalist:
![](https://i.imgur.com/AoyYB4S.jpg)
Sadly, couldn't find any recent photos of the chap.
But a more up-to-date version of realism remains achievable. From what I understand, this would only require disfiguring his face and chopping his body into pieces.
Saudi Crown Prince can't be wrong 😂😂😂 ![](https://i.imgur.com/VCZTL05.jpg) All good fun The artwork might even be stronger if it were turned into a diptych, by adding a stylised image of this journalist: ![](https://i.imgur.com/AoyYB4S.jpg) Sadly, couldn't find any recent photos of the chap. But a more up-to-date version of realism remains achievable. From what I understand, this would only require disfiguring his face and chopping his body into pieces.
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Mr Doodle 🇬🇧 Print Release • Show News • Art For Sale, by met on Jul 25, 2020 0:27:06 GMT 1, ![](https://i.imgur.com/7jOREBo.png)
I still can't decide on whether I should go for the handbag or backpack. I'm steering more towards the handbag. I think I will look good with that over my shoulder.
Sorry to say you missed a trick. Forget the handbag, forget the backpack.
When in doubt, avoid mediums and styles that are atypical for the artist, or otherwise incongruous with the rest of their work.
After accessing the Fendi.cn website, I promptly went for the quintessential piece. The one most representative of both Mr Doodle and his collector base. Unsurprisingly, this was also the item that immediately sold out.
But if any members here are desperate, let them not fear. The window of opportunity hasn't yet closed. At least not completely.
It so happens that I know of two Mr Doodle fanny packs that are still for sale. Does £85,000 apiece sound fair?
![](https://i.imgur.com/7jOREBo.png) I still can't decide on whether I should go for the handbag or backpack. I'm steering more towards the handbag. I think I will look good with that over my shoulder. Sorry to say you missed a trick. Forget the handbag, forget the backpack. When in doubt, avoid mediums and styles that are atypical for the artist, or otherwise incongruous with the rest of their work. After accessing the Fendi.cn website, I promptly went for the quintessential piece. The one most representative of both Mr Doodle and his collector base. Unsurprisingly, this was also the item that immediately sold out. But if any members here are desperate, let them not fear. The window of opportunity hasn't yet closed. At least not completely. It so happens that I know of two Mr Doodle fanny packs that are still for sale. Does £85,000 apiece sound fair?
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Banksy • Weston Super Mare Print, by met on Jul 23, 2020 19:19:14 GMT 1, Don't hate the player, hate the game... Could you clarify what this actually means?
If my understanding is correct, the idea is to suggest an individual (the "player") is not responsible for decisions and actions that may be improper. In other words, that person is not blameworthy (should not be judged and "hated") for their own wrongdoing.
Now, I can understand and perhaps even accept this argument in a restricted number of cases. Such as when someone is genuinely under duress and being forced to carry out, say, immoral acts. Where there's no real choice. They're in a situation (the "game") against their will that is also outside of their control. One classic example is the plea of superior orders (a.k.a. the Nuremberg defence) which, even if not exculpatory, has at times been successful as a mitigating factor during sentencing at trial.
But in the context of selling or reselling art, the "player" is of course fully capable of exercising free will. They do have choices, including the choice to not participate in a particular "game".
And so the notion they aren't to blame for their own wrongdoing becomes absurd. It amounts to saying nobody should ever be accountable for anything they do — a claim that would be disingenuous, or unthinking, or intended for comedic effect.
__________
Please feel free to ignore my question if your comment was just a joke.
The reason for my asking is that I've previously seen other collectors refer to "Don't hate the player..." — yet in a seemingly axiomatic way, without irony, as if to excuse individual behaviour that many others might find disreputable.
Don't hate the player, hate the game... Could you clarify what this actually means? If my understanding is correct, the idea is to suggest an individual (the "player") is not responsible for decisions and actions that may be improper. In other words, that person is not blameworthy (should not be judged and "hated") for their own wrongdoing. Now, I can understand and perhaps even accept this argument in a restricted number of cases. Such as when someone is genuinely under duress and being forced to carry out, say, immoral acts. Where there's no real choice. They're in a situation (the "game") against their will that is also outside of their control. One classic example is the plea of superior orders (a.k.a. the Nuremberg defence) which, even if not exculpatory, has at times been successful as a mitigating factor during sentencing at trial. But in the context of selling or reselling art, the "player" is of course fully capable of exercising free will. They do have choices, including the choice to not participate in a particular "game". And so the notion they aren't to blame for their own wrongdoing becomes absurd. It amounts to saying nobody should ever be accountable for anything they do — a claim that would be disingenuous, or unthinking, or intended for comedic effect. __________ Please feel free to ignore my question if your comment was just a joke. The reason for my asking is that I've previously seen other collectors refer to "Don't hate the player..." — yet in a seemingly axiomatic way, without irony, as if to excuse individual behaviour that many others might find disreputable.
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Banksy • Forgive Us Our Trespassing , by met on Jul 22, 2020 22:49:39 GMT 1, For those really liking / needing this image - you should know that Banksy had jacked this praying boy imagery from another artist called Rene Gagnon - and got caught and called out for it (and the reason why it never became an official print release). The Rene Gagnon print is more rare to find yet still cheaper than the folded print I believe! Edit: Found this link blog.vandalog.com/2010/03/27/new-print-from-rene-gagnon/
Have the two or three points highlighted above in red been confirmed by a credible source, including the original intention by Banksy to release Forgive Us Our Trespassing as an official print?
I myself have no idea what actually happened. But embracing the charge of plagiarism in this instance presumably requires us to also accept the following as fact:
1. Around 2008–10 (i.e. The Cans Festival, The Village Pet Store and Charcoal Grill, massive NYC rat murals in collaboration with Colossal Media, multiple other high-profile street pieces, Banksy vs Bristol Museum exhibition, and Exit Through the Gift Shop documentary) — at a time when he was already a superstar contemporary artist and arguably without peer on the street art scene (in terms of the combined package of prolificness, diversity of output, commercial success and notoriety) — Banksy was keeping an eye on Rene Gagnon, of all people.
2. Despite having never previously demonstrated any shortfall of ideas, and notwithstanding the predictably intense level of scrutiny his work had become subject to, Banksy was still prepared to risk tainting his reputation by brazenly biting a fellow artist.
__________
An alternative explanation seems more plausible to me, even if largely dismissed by Vandalog:
While trawling stock-image websites on their laptops, both artists independently stumbled upon and saw potential in the same photo of a young boy praying outside.
![](https://i.imgur.com/M8EMuf5.jpg)
For those really liking / needing this image - you should know that Banksy had jacked this praying boy imagery from another artist called Rene Gagnon - and got caught and called out for it (and the reason why it never became an official print release). The Rene Gagnon print is more rare to find yet still cheaper than the folded print I believe! Edit: Found this link blog.vandalog.com/2010/03/27/new-print-from-rene-gagnon/Have the two or three points highlighted above in red been confirmed by a credible source, including the original intention by Banksy to release Forgive Us Our Trespassing as an official print? I myself have no idea what actually happened. But embracing the charge of plagiarism in this instance presumably requires us to also accept the following as fact: 1. Around 2008–10 (i.e. The Cans Festival, The Village Pet Store and Charcoal Grill, massive NYC rat murals in collaboration with Colossal Media, multiple other high-profile street pieces, Banksy vs Bristol Museum exhibition, and Exit Through the Gift Shop documentary) — at a time when he was already a superstar contemporary artist and arguably without peer on the str eet art scene (in terms of the combined package of prolificness, diversity of output, commercial success and notoriety) — Ban ksy was keeping an eye on Rene Gagnon, of all people. 2. Despite having never previously demonstrated any shortfall of ideas, and notwithstanding the predictably intense level of scrutiny his work had become subject to, Ban ksy was still prepared to risk tainting his reputation by brazenly biting a fellow artist. __________ An alternative explanation seems more plausible to me, even if largely dismissed by Vandalog: While trawling stock-image websites on their laptops, both artists independently stumbled upon and saw potential in the same photo of a young boy praying outside. ![](https://i.imgur.com/M8EMuf5.jpg)
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Forum Auctions • Banksy Marketplace 🇬🇧, by met on Jul 21, 2020 21:42:31 GMT 1, I know I'm going to regret this, but what's GOWUC??? Even Google scratching his head. Every time Mr Iv posts, makes me think of this -
Poula Fisch may be repetitive, but she's also a sweetheart. Count yourself fortunate.
Sadly, the only vibe I get is that of some middle-aged vulgarian, furiously masturbating on public transport. Loudly, gleefully, incessantly. Once in a while, even cheered along by some of the other passengers.
And always there. Always. Each and every fucking time I board the train carriage.
I know I'm going to regret this, but what's GOWUC??? Even Google scratching his head. Every time Mr Iv posts, makes me think of this -Poula Fisch may be repetitive, but she's also a sweetheart. Count yourself fortunate. Sadly, the only vibe I get is that of some middle-aged vulgarian, furiously masturbating on public transport. Loudly, gleefully, incessantly. Once in a while, even cheered along by some of the other passengers. And always there. Always. Each and every fu cking time I board the train carriage.
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Andy Warhol 🇺🇸 Real or Fake? • Sunday B. Morning Print, by met on Jul 20, 2020 14:26:37 GMT 1, Is Bleca mecca on eBay the seller by any chance? if So avoid it's fake, well avoid it anyway because it's fake but doubly so if sold by that charlatan. Nope, the seller is this one abel.zabel, he sold several items of some artists
This is all the information needed for me to know, with absolute certainty, that my previous two assertions about seller credibility and provenance were correct.
__________ Although I strongly believe the above photos are of a counterfeit You're In, I'm not prepared to better educate fraudsters by pointing out why. Thank you for your feedback, can you please let me know why you're 100% sure is a fake?
As mentioned, I am not prepared to discuss the details on an open message board. One thing you can be confident about is that there's a fair number of amateur counterfeiters who frequent this place. Why give them tips on how to churn out better-quality fakes?
If you wish to have a telephone chat, send me a private message with your contact number, and I'll call later this afternoon.
For separate third-party opinions, you could try consigning the bottle with a reputable house like Christie's, Sotheby's or Phillips. However, I guarantee all three would reject it as inauthentic. This item is but one of countless Warhol fakes.
In the meantime, if the option of a refund through eBay, PayPal or your card issuer remains open, then that process should be initiated immediately.
__________
It's worth emphasising your purchase of this bottle was uninformed. And very naive. This was a situation where common sense, healthy scepticism and due diligence were required. Would it be fair to say you were just blinded on this occasion by wishful thinking?
I trust my candour won't be misinterpreted as a personal attack. The reason I'm commenting publicly, and rather forcefully, is that there will no doubt be other members here who can also learn from your mistake.
Is Bleca mecca on eBay the seller by any chance? if So avoid it's fake, well avoid it anyway because it's fake but doubly so if sold by that charlatan. Nope, the seller is this one abel.zabel, he sold several items of some artists This is all the information needed for me to know, with absolute certainty, that my previous two assertions about seller credibility and provenance were correct. __________ Although I strongly believe the above photos are of a counterfeit You're In, I'm not prepared to better educate fraudsters by pointing out why. Thank you for your feedback, can you please let me know why you're 100% sure is a fake? As mentioned, I am not prepared to discuss the details on an open message board. One thing you can be confident about is that there's a fair number of amateur counterfeiters who frequent this place. Why give them tips on how to churn out better-quality fakes? If you wish to have a telephone chat, send me a private message with your contact number, and I'll call later this afternoon. For separate third-party opinions, you could try consigning the bottle with a reputable house like Christie's, Sotheby's or Phillips. However, I guarantee all three would reject it as inauthentic. This item is but one of countless War hol fakes. In the meantime, if the option of a refund through eBay, PayPal or your card issuer remains open, then that process should be initiated immediately. __________ It's worth emphasising your purchase of this bottle was uninformed. And very naive. This was a situation where common sense, healthy scepticism and due diligence were required. Would it be fair to say you were just blinded on this occasion by wishful thinking? I trust my candour won't be misinterpreted as a personal attack. The reason I'm commenting publicly, and rather forcefully, is that there will no doubt be other members here who can also learn from your mistake.
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met
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Banksy Captured Book • Steve Lazarides , by met on Jul 19, 2020 17:42:44 GMT 1,
A general comment, just to mention it's worth exercising caution when either citing or placing reliance upon published auction results in at least two situations:
1. Very recent sales for absurdly high prices
Be especially wary with lower-end items (up to the four figures), where bidders are less likely to have been carefully vetted beforehand by the auction houses.
To state the obvious, there is no "sale" until money has exchanged hands. Even with genuine bidders, arrangements are frequently made for payment to take place a good fortnight or month later. And much can go wrong during the interval.
Under these circumstances it's easy to see how, in the immediate aftermath of an auction, references to an artwork having sold for [x] pounds, dollars or euros could be misleading — because the sale might not complete. This, for any number of reasons, including a dishonest bidder never intending to pay in the first place.
2. Sale results posted on host platforms like LiveAuctioneers, Invaluable.com and Artsy
It can sometimes be wise to ignore the results on these platforms, at least when auction houses responsible for the relevant sales have published (or will soon publish) their own results.
Whenever there's a discrepancy in the figures, it is the host platforms (with access to less information) that are more likely to get things wrong. And if any sale-price corrections or updates are made by an auction house, these won't necessarily be tracked through to the details posted by platforms such as LiveAuctioneers.
__________
An example for illustration purposes
The posts below are from the thread titled, 4 X Peckham Rocks Wanted*, started on 16 June 2020:
As at today, 19 July 2020, that LiveAuctioneers link still shows a Peckham Rock card by Banksy (Lot 152) having sold last year for US$2,000:
www.liveauctioneers.com/item/70532955_banksy-british-1974
![](https://i.imgur.com/tU9VleT.png)
But LiveAuctioneers was only a host platform.
The actual auction house was Julien's Auctions. Its Fine Art: Street and Contemporary sale took place in Los Angeles on the evening of 25 April 2019 (or 26 April, European time).
And when verifying or trying to corroborate the $2,000 result on Julien's Auctions' website, we discover the sale never completed. Lot 152 has been omitted for that reason:
www.juliensauctions.com/auction-results?id=282
![](https://i.imgur.com/l4JMOBr.png) ![](https://i.imgur.com/vWnWwxe.png) ![](https://i.imgur.com/O4v2Yvl.png)
Now, maybe the winning bidder later realised how foolish they were with their bid level(s). Another possibility is the winning bidder (perhaps together with the underbidder) was trying to manipulate the market and artificially raise the perceived value of Peckham Rock cards.
But whatever the cause of the failed completion of sale, it is clearly problematic to suggest somebody paid $2,000 (plus buyer's premium and any applicable taxes) for one of these cards in April 2019.
Even if unintentional, the spreading of such false information may be convenient for people sitting on a stack of these cards. At the same time, it could also be potentially disastrous for naive collectors who are seeking guidance on pricing before they purchase some Banksy ephemera.
[As a separate issue, I'll take the opportunity to reiterate my view about Julien's Auctions: It is a dishonest business that has repeatedly exploited the ignorance of its clients. In case members are interested in some of the straightforward, damning evidence upon which this opinion is based, they can use the forum's 'Search' mechanism (along with the search term "Julien's") to locate posts I previously drafted on the subject.]
A general comment, just to mention it's worth exercising caution when either citing or placing reliance upon published auction results in at least two situations: 1. Very recent sales for absurdly high pricesBe especially wary with lower-end items (up to the four figures), where bidders are less likely to have been carefully vetted beforehand by the auction houses. To state the obvious, there is no "sale" until money has exchanged hands. Even with genuine bidders, arrangements are frequently made for payment to take place a good fortnight or month later. And much can go wrong during the interval. Under these circumstances it's easy to see how, in the immediate aftermath of an auction, references to an artwork having sold for [x] pounds, dollars or euros could be misleading — because the sale might not complete. This, for any number of reasons, including a dishonest bidder never intending to pay in the first place. 2. Sale results posted on host platforms like LiveAuctioneers, Invaluable.com and ArtsyIt can sometimes be wise to ignore the results on these platforms, at least when auction houses responsible for the relevant sales have published (or will soon publish) their own results. Whenever there's a discrepancy in the figures, it is the host platforms (with access to less information) that are more likely to get things wrong. And if any sale-price corrections or updates are made by an auction house, these won't necessarily be tracked through to the details posted by platforms such as LiveAuctioneers. __________ An example for illustration purposesThe posts below are from the thread titled, 4 X Peckham Rocks Wanted*, started on 16 June 2020: As at today, 19 July 2020, that LiveAuctioneers link still shows a Peckham Rock card by Banksy (Lot 152) having sold last year for US$2,000: www.liveauctioneers.com/item/70532955_banksy-british-1974![](https://i.imgur.com/tU9VleT.png) But LiveAuctioneers was only a host platform. The actual auction house was Julien's Auctions. Its Fine Art: Street and Contemporary sale took place in Los Angeles on the evening of 25 April 2019 (or 26 April, European time). And when verifying or trying to corroborate the $2,000 result on Julien's Auctions' website, we discover the sale never completed. Lot 152 has been omitted for that reason: www.juliensauctions.com/auction-results?id=282![](https://i.imgur.com/l4JMOBr.png) ![](https://i.imgur.com/vWnWwxe.png) ![](https://i.imgur.com/O4v2Yvl.png) Now, maybe the winning bidder later realised how foolish they were with their bid level(s). Another possibility is the winning bidder (perhaps together with the underbidder) was trying to manipulate the market and artificially raise the perceived value of Peckham Rock cards. But whatever the cause of the failed completion of sale, it is clearly problematic to suggest somebody paid $2,000 (plus buyer's premium and any applicable taxes) for one of these cards in April 2019. Even if unintentional, the spreading of such false information may be convenient for people sitting on a stack of these cards. At the same time, it could also be potentially disastrous for naive collectors who are seeking guidance on pricing before they purchase some Ban ksy ephemera. [As a separate issue, I'll take the opportunity to reiterate my view about Julien's Auctions: It is a dishonest business that has repeatedly exploited the ignorance of its clients. In case members are interested in some of the straightforward, damning evidence upon which this opinion is based, they can use the forum's 'Search' mechanism (along with the search term "Julien's") to locate posts I previously drafted on the subject.]
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Banksy Welcome Mat, by met on Jul 18, 2020 10:43:00 GMT 1, I'm torn on that sentiment. On one hand, I agree. On the other, you pay 500 pounds plus whatever to get it framed and look at it in your air conditioned house while eating a warm meal after a clean shower. To me, it evokes the same feeling of privilege and wrong priorities that I had when driving through skid row on the way to see shepard fairey. I hear ya my friend. I buy and sell art frequently, but this will stay with me forever. And I know that every time someone experiences it, we can discuss it’s meaning and origins. Unlike so much contemporary art (I’m a manager at two contemporary art galleries in London) this work is accessible to everyone. Surly this is what all great art should aim to achieve? Promote debate, affect its audience, effect change. Xx Being able to notice and take pleasure in the small things, including people's choices of words, is a blessing for me.
Yours was an inspired way of highlighting the distinction between the oft-confused terms, "affect" and "effect".
I'm torn on that sentiment. On one hand, I agree. On the other, you pay 500 pounds plus whatever to get it framed and look at it in your air conditioned house while eating a warm meal after a clean shower. To me, it evokes the same feeling of privilege and wrong priorities that I had when driving through skid row on the way to see shepard fairey. I hear ya my friend. I buy and sell art frequently, but this will stay with me forever. And I know that every time someone experiences it, we can discuss it’s meaning and origins. Unlike so much contemporary art (I’m a manager at two contemporary art galleries in London) this work is accessible to everyone. Surly this is what all great art should aim to achieve? Promote debate, affect its audience, effect change. Xx Being able to notice and take pleasure in the small things, including people's choices of words, is a blessing for me. Yours was an inspired way of highlighting the distinction between the oft-confused terms, "affect" and "effect".
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Can anyone give me any info on these stamps, by met on Jul 18, 2020 10:28:38 GMT 1, ![]() ![]() Hi can anyone tell me if these are real ? ![](https://i.imgur.com/uGXp5Sf.jpg)
By "real", are you asking whether this sheet of stamps is an authentic Banksy item?
The answer would be no. It was produced by a chancer, an opportunist.
__________
Assuming my above confirmation is helpful, perhaps you could assist in return.
Has the seller (or any other person or entity) actually suggested the stamps are official and were authorised by Banksy?
If so, please could you name them here. Disclosing that information may lower the chances of other forum members getting scammed in the future.
![]() ![]() Hi can anyone tell me if these are real ? ![](https://i.imgur.com/uGXp5Sf.jpg) By "real", are you asking whether this sheet of stamps is an authentic Ban ksy item? The answer would be no. It was produced by a chancer, an opportunist. __________ Assuming my above confirmation is helpful, perhaps you could assist in return. Has the seller (or any other person or entity) actually suggested the stamps are official and were authorised by Ban ksy? If so, please could you name them here. Disclosing that information may lower the chances of other forum members getting scammed in the future.
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Andy Warhol 🇺🇸 Real or Fake? • Sunday B. Morning Print, by met on Jul 16, 2020 23:42:19 GMT 1,
My advice would be to keep away from works purportedly by Andy Warhol — unless you really know what you're doing, or you're purchasing from a very reputable dealer / auction house with the requisite expertise.
The market for this artist is riddled with fakes.
__________
Specifically regarding You're In (geddit?), yes, there are fakes in circulation.
It hardly takes a mastermind to buy on eBay some vintage Coca-Cola bottles, snap-on seal-again bottle stoppers, and silver spraypaint. Nor is it difficult to copy labels and give items a roughed-up, aged look.
__________
Although I strongly believe the above photos are of a counterfeit You're In, I'm not prepared to better educate fraudsters by pointing out why.
However, even with the minimal details provided, I do feel comfortable making a couple of assertions:
1. The seller of this piece probably doesn't have a credible reputation when it comes to works by Warhol.
2. The provenance you've been given is most likely to be:
(i) incomplete (i.e. it cannot be traced all the way back to the artist); (ii) partly or wholly false; and/or (iii) partly or wholly unverifiable.
Perhaps you would kindly confirm if I'm on the right track. If so, then (by way of reciprocity) disclosing the name of the seller here may reduce the chances of other forum members getting conned by the same person or entity.
My advice would be to keep away from works purportedly by Andy Warhol — unless you really know what you're doing, or you're purchasing from a very reputable dealer / auction house with the requisite expertise. The market for this artist is riddled with fakes. __________ Specifically regarding You're In (geddit?), yes, there are fakes in circulation. It hardly takes a mastermind to buy on eB ay some vintage Coca-Cola bottles, snap-on seal-again bottle stoppers, and silver spraypaint. Nor is it difficult to copy labels and give items a roughed-up, aged look. __________ Although I strongly believe the above photos are of a counterfeit You're In, I'm not prepared to better educate fraudsters by pointing out why. However, even with the minimal details provided, I do feel comfortable making a couple of assertions: 1. The seller of this piece probably doesn't have a credible reputation when it comes to works by War hol. 2. The provenance you've been given is most likely to be: (i) incomplete (i.e. it cannot be traced all the way back to the artist); (ii) partly or wholly false; and/or (iii) partly or wholly unverifiable. Perhaps you would kindly confirm if I'm on the right track. If so, then (by way of reciprocity) disclosing the name of the seller here may reduce the chances of other forum members getting conned by the same person or entity.
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Banksy Laugh Now Print, by met on Jul 16, 2020 20:15:19 GMT 1, [...] Just to respectfully say that I haven't bodged the signature myself, it was the likely legit backdoor print that caught my eye Is the general consensus that its a badly forged signature but the prints legit? I'll post better photos later@thetopcat May I check whether the photos in your opening post were taken by you — or if they were instead sent to you by another forum member / eB ay seller / private dealer? EDIT: Sorry, another question: Do you own the print, or is it just one that you're thinking about purchasing?
You're 100% right, not my photos but I never said they were, also currently not my print, but again I never said it was, just wanted the opinion of members as UAA is a trusted source for Banksy pricing and authentication and I respect the opinions of its members Kind of regret asking now, as I only politely asked for opinions and via PM's I've been accused of trying to buy and flip the print (Not the case) and forging the signature myself (really not the case) ................. which I haven't, I was considering buying the print to fill wall space since I sold several Banksy pieces (prints) that I used to own
Many thanks for the helpful confirmations, @thetopcat.
When mentioning you would be posting better photos later, that wording suggested the print was, not necessarily yours, but currently in your possession. And you first needed to take additional shots before adding them here. Otherwise, you'd have presumably posted the better photos from the outset.
Would this deduction about your possession of the print be correct?
__________
Although unpleasant, I'm sure you understand the wariness or suspicion expressed by some forum members. With Banksy's market being infested by chancers and scammers, the wisest default position for collectors is always one healthy scepticism.
If I may take you up on your earlier offer, it would be great to see high-res, close-up images of the chimp's brow, nose, and other areas featuring Banksy's use of the overspray effect.
[...] Just to respectfully say that I haven't bodged the signature myself, it was the likely legit backdoor print that caught my eye Is the general consensus that its a badly forged signature but the prints legit? I'll post better photos later@thetopcat May I check whether the photos in your opening post were taken by you — or if they were instead sent to you by another forum member / eB ay seller / private dealer? EDIT: Sorry, another question: Do you own the print, or is it just one that you're thinking about purchasing? You're 100% right, not my photos but I never said they were, also currently not my print, but again I never said it was, just wanted the opinion of members as UAA is a trusted source for Banksy pricing and authentication and I respect the opinions of its members Kind of regret asking now, as I only politely asked for opinions and via PM's I've been accused of trying to buy and flip the print (Not the case) and forging the signature myself (really not the case) ................. which I haven't, I was considering buying the print to fill wall space since I sold several Banksy pieces (prints) that I used to own Many thanks for the helpful confirmations, @thetopcat. When mentioning you would be posting better photos later, that wording suggested the print was, not necessarily yours, but currently in your possession. And you first needed to take additional shots before adding them here. Otherwise, you'd have presumably posted the better photos from the outset. Would this deduction about your possession of the print be correct? __________ Although unpleasant, I'm sure you understand the wariness or suspicion expressed by some forum members. With Ban ksy's market being infested by chancers and scammers, the wisest default position for collectors is always one healthy scepticism. If I may take you up on your earlier offer, it would be great to see high-res, close-up images of the chimp's brow, nose, and other areas featuring Ban ksy's use of the overspray effect.
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FREUD PR Art filled office with BANKSY originals plus more, by met on Jul 16, 2020 17:19:35 GMT 1,
Thank you for posting this Business Insider article from 2017. I would not otherwise have known about it.
To his credit, the author made a good effort identifying pieces on the wall display:
![](https://i.imgur.com/1NGhdj3.jpg)
1. "Progress," by Shepard Fairey, 2008. 2. An Andy Warhol piece - "Sigmund Freud (Ten Portraits of Jews of 20th Century)," 1980. 3. "Beautiful Asthma, Abestosis the Light at the End of the Tunnel No Use Crying Over Spilt Milk," by Damien Hirst, 2005. 4. A three-rotor Enigma cipher machine used by British WWII codebreakers. 5. A piece of Concorde. As in, the plane. 6. A dinosaur foot from Moa, New Zealand. And it's not even the most impressive dinosaur fossil in Freuds' office. 7. "Portrait of Lord Philip Gould," by Adrian Steirn. 8. "Street Kid, Favela Morro da Providencia, Rio de Janiero, Brasil," by JR, 2008. 9. An 18th century human skull, kept in a Victorian glass dome. 10. "Happy Head," by Damien Hirst, 2007. 11. "What?" by graffiti artist Banksy, 2007. [Note: Presumably unauthenticated.] 12. An heirloom grandfather clock. 13. A copy of Shakespeare's Comedies, Histories, and Tragedies, published in 1623.
Slightly puzzling, however, is that the Yves Klein works weren't mentioned.
Not so much a fan of what appears to be one version of The Wave (between numbers 3 and 7). But Blue Venus (The Venus of Alexandria) (S 41) (between numbers 2 and 4) is an editioned sculpture I would truly love to own.
For an idea of scale of this huge wall display, Blue Venus measures about 69 cm in height, without the pedestal.
Thank you for posting this Business Insider article from 2017. I would not otherwise have known about it. To his credit, the author made a good effort identifying pieces on the wall display: 1. "Progress," by Shepard Fairey, 2008. 2. An Andy Warhol piece - "Sigmund Freud (Ten Portraits of Jews of 20th Century)," 1980. 3. "Beautiful Asthma, Abestosis the Light at the End of the Tunnel No Use Crying Over Spilt Milk," by Damien Hirst, 2005. 4. A three-rotor Enigma cipher machine used by British WWII codebreakers. 5. A piece of Concorde. As in, the plane. 6. A dinosaur foot from Moa, New Zealand. And it's not even the most impressive dinosaur fossil in Freuds' office. 7. "Portrait of Lord Philip Gould," by Adrian Steirn. 8. "Street Kid, Favela Morro da Providencia, Rio de Janiero, Brasil," by JR, 2008. 9. An 18th century human skull, kept in a Victorian glass dome. 10. "Happy Head," by Damien Hirst, 2007. 11. "What?" by graffiti artist Banksy, 2007. [Note: Presumably unauthenticated.]12. An heirloom grandfather clock.13. A copy of Shakespeare's Comedies, Histories, and Tragedies, published in 1623.Slightly puzzling, however, is that the Yves Klein works weren't mentioned. Not so much a fan of what appears to be one version of The Wave (between numbers 3 and 7). But Blue Venus (The Venus of Alexandria) (S 41) (between numbers 2 and 4) is an editioned sculpture I would truly love to own. For an idea of scale of this huge wall display, Blue Venus measures about 69 cm in height, without the pedestal.
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Banksy Welcome Mat, by met on Jul 16, 2020 15:55:34 GMT 1, Anybody using doormat for it’s real purpose? Didn't Banksy say that the doormat is an artwork? So I suppose everyone framing and hanging is using it for it's real purpose. edit: yep, here it is ![](https://i.imgur.com/JiD9gQv.jpg)
Absolutely.
And in an effort to help decrease the number of times "It's just a doormat" is repeated as an argument, here's a higher-res version of that note from Banksy:
![](https://i.imgur.com/uFaj28R.png)
"Your mat is a hand made piece of art and should ideally be used for display purposes only. We would advise against walking on it extensively or rubbing dirty boots on it repeatedly. Avoid vacuuming and clean gently using a canister of pressured air."
Source:
https://www.instagram.com/p/B8j5EpOBPqV __________
It does surprise me when apparent art enthusiasts come across as literal-minded.
Perhaps this is a valuable reminder not everyone is best suited to be a custodian of culture for the next generation.
At least we now know that, if the Musée Picasso in Paris were to close, we should avoid entrusting Tête de taureau (Bull's Head) in the care of random forum members, lest the piece be disassembled and sold off as bicycle parts.
Anybody using doormat for it’s real purpose? Didn't Banksy say that the doormat is an artwork? So I suppose everyone framing and hanging is using it for it's real purpose. edit: yep, here it is ![](https://i.imgur.com/JiD9gQv.jpg) Absolutely. And in an effort to help decrease the number of times "It's just a doormat" is repeated as an argument, here's a higher-res version of that note from Banksy: "Your mat is a hand made piece of art and should ideally be used for display purposes only. We would advise against walking on it extensively or rubbing dirty boots on it repeatedly. Avoid vacuuming and clean gently using a canister of pressured air."Source:https://www.instagram.com/p/B8j5EpOBPqV __________ It does surprise me when apparent art enthusiasts come across as literal-minded. Perhaps this is a valuable reminder not everyone is best suited to be a custodian of culture for the next generation. At least we now know that, if the Musée Pic asso in Paris were to close, we should avoid entrusting Tête de taureau ( Bull's Head) in the care of random forum members, lest the piece be disassembled and sold off as bicycle parts.
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What a crap website .... come on who’s had enough?, by met on Jul 15, 2020 23:41:41 GMT 1, This forum iss**te ......... you can’t find your way to a piss pot ! Who ever designed this customer unfriendly site needs a good rodding up the Back ass ... second shelf up ! For Christ sake get a website designer in ........ its not rocket science .... but this is a site for Neanderthals ..... come on guys ...sort it ! Yes ..... I know you sitting pretties won’t like it , but this crap needs updating ..... I’m not a wiz kid seeking to upend the universe..... I just want a usable forum for collectors of urban art ...... AND AT THE MOMENT THIS ISN'T IT? ....... shoot me down with water pistols & all sorts .... but you know I am right ..... THIS SITE IS OUTDATED & VIRTUALLY UNUSABLE ........ what I hear you say “well don’t use it then” ...great I won’t.... but where does that leave everybody ...... with as**te website 🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️ FFS do something 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️9
Indeed, the forum could do with a bit of an overhaul.
What I'd like to see is more duplicate posts, an increased reliance on swearing, plenty of shouty text in upper case, multiple emojis in succession, and the odd use of punctuation combined with experimental sentence structure.
This forum iss**te ......... you can’t find your way to a piss pot ! Who ever designed this customer unfriendly site needs a good rodding up the Back ass ... second shelf up ! For Christ sake get a website designer in ........ its not rocket science .... but this is a site for Neanderthals ..... come on guys ...sort it ! Yes ..... I know you sitting pretties won’t like it , but this crap needs updating ..... I’m not a wiz kid seeking to upend the universe..... I just want a usable forum for collectors of urban art ...... AND AT THE MOMENT THIS ISN'T IT? ....... shoot me down with water pistols & all sorts .... but you know I am right ..... THIS SITE IS OUTDATED & VIRTUALLY UNUSABLE ........ what I hear you say “well don’t use it then” ...great I won’t.... but where does that leave everybody ...... with as**te website 🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️ FFS do something 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️9 Indeed, the forum could do with a bit of an overhaul. What I'd like to see is more duplicate posts, an increased reliance on swearing, plenty of shouty text in upper case, multiple emojis in succession, and the odd use of punctuation combined with experimental sentence structure.
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If you don’t mask you don’t get, by met on Jul 15, 2020 22:34:57 GMT 1, I doubt (but don’t know) that TFL would grant permission. They have a pretty strict policy on Graf I understand; and they said they removed it pursuant to that policy. They didn’t say oops, we didn’t realise it was Banksy it that they wished they hadn’t removed it. As for meurke’s comment, well, of course making a video was part of the work (as that’s what Banksy did and shared!).
The latest news today from TfL offers a slightly different story:
www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/banksy-tube-graffiti-artwork-coronavirus-removed-cleaner-a4498771.html
15 July 2020
Banksy's coronavirus-inspired Tube artwork ACCIDENTALLY removed by cleaner... and transport chiefs want him to do another one
Cleaners 'noticed some sort of ‘rat thing’ a few days ago and cleaned it off'
Transport for London want artist to do another version in a 'suitable location'
The graffiti artwork created by Banksy on a Tube train was accidentally removed by a cleaner, the Evening Standard can reveal.
The secretive world-renowned artist yesterday afternoon posted a video showing images of rats – including one wearing a facemask – being spray-painted onto a Circle line train.
The work was apparently inspired by lockdown and the implications of the coronavirus pandemic.
Last night Transport for London said the images had been removed as they breached its strict “no graffiti” policy, prompting a backlash on social media.
However, the Standard can today reveal that the artwork was in fact erased by a cleaner who had no knowledge of its significance - possibly as far back as last Friday.
One source said: “When we saw the video, we started to look into it and spoke to the cleaners. It started to emerge that they had noticed some sort of ‘rat thing’ a few days ago and cleaned it off, as they should.
“It rather changes the aspect for anyone seeking to go down the route of accusing us of cultural vandalism.”
The video apparently shows Banksy in a white protective suit and mask spray-painting stencils of his famous rat drawings – one using a face mask as a parachute and another with hand-sanitiser – on the inside of a Tube carriage as it travels towards Baker Street.
When the doors open at Euston Square, the message “I get lockdown" can be seen in graffiti on the station walls. The Tube doors then shut to reveal the rest of the message: "But I get up again".
Chumbawamba's song Tubthumping - also known as I Get Knocked Down - plays as the doors touch together.
The video, on Banksy’s Instagram page, has been viewed more than three million times. Banksy posted the accompanying message: “If you don’t mask – you don’t get.”
A TfL spokesman said: “We appreciate the sentiment of encouraging people to wear face coverings, which the vast majority of customers on our transport network are doing.
“In this particular case, the work was removed some days ago due to our strict anti-graffiti policy. We’d like to offer Banksy the chance to do a new version of his message for our customers in a suitable location.”
[...]
I doubt (but don’t know) that TFL would grant permission. They have a pretty strict policy on Graf I understand; and they said they removed it pursuant to that policy. They didn’t say oops, we didn’t realise it was Banksy it that they wished they hadn’t removed it. As for meurke’s comment, well, of course making a video was part of the work (as that’s what Banksy did and shared!). The latest news today from TfL offers a slightly different story: www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/banksy-tube-graffiti-artwork-coronavirus-removed-cleaner-a4498771.html15 July 2020 Banksy's coronavirus-inspired Tube artwork ACCIDENTALLY removed by cleaner... and transport chiefs want him to do another one
Cleaners 'noticed some sort of ‘rat thing’ a few days ago and cleaned it off'
Transport for London want artist to do another version in a 'suitable location'
The graffiti artwork created by Banksy on a Tube train was accidentally removed by a cleaner, the Evening Standard can reveal.
The secretive world-renowned artist yesterday afternoon posted a video showing images of rats – including one wearing a facemask – being spray-painted onto a Circle line train.
The work was apparently inspired by lockdown and the implications of the coronavirus pandemic.
Last night Transport for London said the images had been removed as they breached its strict “no graffiti” policy, prompting a backlash on social media.
However, the Standard can today reveal that the artwork was in fact erased by a cleaner who had no knowledge of its significance - possibly as far back as last Friday.
One source said: “When we saw the video, we started to look into it and spoke to the cleaners. It started to emerge that they had noticed some sort of ‘rat thing’ a few days ago and cleaned it off, as they should.
“It rather changes the aspect for anyone seeking to go down the route of accusing us of cultural vandalism.”
The video apparently shows Banksy in a white protective suit and mask spray-painting stencils of his famous rat drawings – one using a face mask as a parachute and another with hand-sanitiser – on the inside of a Tube carriage as it travels towards Baker Street.
When the doors open at Euston Square, the message “I get lockdown" can be seen in graffiti on the station walls. The Tube doors then shut to reveal the rest of the message: "But I get up again".
Chumbawamba's song Tubthumping - also known as I Get Knocked Down - plays as the doors touch together.
The video, on Banksy’s Instagram page, has been viewed more than three million times. Banksy posted the accompanying message: “If you don’t mask – you don’t get.”
A TfL spokesman said: “We appreciate the sentiment of encouraging people to wear face coverings, which the vast majority of customers on our transport network are doing.
“In this particular case, the work was removed some days ago due to our strict anti-graffiti policy. We’d like to offer Banksy the chance to do a new version of his message for our customers in a suitable location.”
[...]
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Banksy mask up , by met on Jul 15, 2020 21:28:14 GMT 1, Is it so clear? They are playing with them as toys. The only one with a face covering shows that it is overwhelming them to the point they can't get up. Maybe look a bit deeper. His "Game Changer" work didn't send a clear message either, and I think people need to realize the masks**t is senseless - hopefully he does as well. Would you put up a chain-link fence to stop mosquitos - that is the equivalent of wearing a mask to stop an airborne virus. If its so deadly why no bio-waste bins for all these masks? Why just masks and not goggles? I honestly feel bad for anyone who has been brainwashed to the point where they will wear one of those ridiculous things. Well, we can all do our bit for the greater good of society, no? I mean, seatbelts are pretty much mainly to save your own life, but it's better for society if ambulance crews aren't scraping our remains up from the road every 5 minutes. And, sure, the average mask might not stop you from inhaling the virus, but have you ever taken a good look at that bulletproof glass the staff hide behind at the post office? It's usually covered in dried droplets of saliva. And that's just from people saying, "Second class, small parcel please", " How much?? FFS!" and "PUT THE MONEY IN THE F*CKING BAG!!
If a mask can help prevent infected human juice from being spread around Waitrose, for the good of wider society, isn't it worth doing? If it can potentially save the life of only one Nanna, isn't it worth trying? If it just says to those around you, I care about my fellow citizens, isn't it worth doing? I mean, it's just a face covering, which can be pretty much anything. Enjoy your worthless immune system! I love everyone following the media's orders in lockstep, without questioning the fact that they are doing more harm than good. OB EY YOUR MASTER. STAY A SLAVE.
Obeying the devil's laws is okay with me. I mean, rules are rules.
But I do fear getting arrested, regardless of the improvement this could bring to my sex life. In truth, the idea of punishment from god also makes me a tad anxious.
Surely there's a middle ground I can tread without being hassled?
And if somebody could advise me on how to get out of the deep state before it goes down, you would have my eternal gratitude.
bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-53174415/they-want-to-throw-god-s-wonderful-breathing-system-out
Is it so clear? They are playing with them as toys. The only one with a face covering shows that it is overwhelming them to the point they can't get up. Maybe look a bit deeper. His "Game Changer" work didn't send a clear message either, and I think people need to realize the masks**t is senseless - hopefully he does as well. Would you put up a chain-link fence to stop mosquitos - that is the equivalent of wearing a mask to stop an airborne virus. If its so deadly why no bio-waste bins for all these masks? Why just masks and not goggles? I honestly feel bad for anyone who has been brainwashed to the point where they will wear one of those ridiculous things. Well, we can all do our bit for the greater good of society, no? I mean, seatbelts are pretty much mainly to save your own life, but it's better for society if ambulance crews aren't scraping our remains up from the road every 5 minutes. And, sure, the average mask might not stop you from inhaling the virus, but have you ever taken a good look at that bulletproof glass the staff hide behind at the post office? It's usually covered in dried droplets of saliva. And that's just from people saying, "Second class, small parcel please", " How much?? FFS!" and "PUT THE MONEY IN THE F*CKING BAG!!
If a mask can help prevent infected human juice from being spread around Waitrose, for the good of wider society, isn't it worth doing? If it can potentially save the life of only one Nanna, isn't it worth trying? If it just says to those around you, I care about my fellow citizens, isn't it worth doing? I mean, it's just a face covering, which can be pretty much anything. Enjoy your worthless immune system! I love everyone following the media's orders in lockstep, without questioning the fact that they are doing more harm than good. OB EY YOUR MASTER. STAY A SLAVE. Ob eying the devil's laws is okay with me. I mean, rules are rules. But I do fear getting arrested, regardless of the improvement this could bring to my sex life. In truth, the idea of punishment from god also makes me a tad anxious. Surely there's a middle ground I can tread without being hassled? And if somebody could advise me on how to get out of the deep state before it goes down, you would have my eternal gratitude. bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-53174415/they-want-to-throw-god-s-wonderful-breathing-system-out
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Banksy mask up , by met on Jul 15, 2020 19:42:55 GMT 1, Two main guys and a team of artist on NDAs? NDAs? Could be? Who knows what kind of drugs they are on. Imagine every passenger in that carriage getting a gift print for being part of the project. "Look under your seats. You get a print! And you get a print! You get a print and, I think some old gum or something?"
As with anything, it's all about moderation.
There was a period of two years when I'd be on NDAs pretty much every weekend. Got to the point where it felt like I couldn't have fun without them. That's really messed up. And it conflicted with my desire for complete independence / non-dependency.
These days, I'm happy with just a couple of pints.
Two main guys and a team of artist on NDAs? NDAs? Could be? Who knows what kind of drugs they are on. Imagine every passenger in that carriage getting a gift print for being part of the project. "Look under your seats. You get a print! And you get a print! You get a print and, I think some old gum or something?"As with anything, it's all about moderation. There was a period of two years when I'd be on NDAs pretty much every weekend. Got to the point where it felt like I couldn't have fun without them. That's really messed up. And it conflicted with my desire for complete independence / non-dependency. These days, I'm happy with just a couple of pints.
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met
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Banksy Laugh Now Print, by met on Jul 14, 2020 18:10:51 GMT 1,
Just to respectfully say that I haven't bodged the signature myself, it was the likely legit backdoor print that caught my eye Is the general consensus that its a badly forged signature but the prints legit? I'll post better photos later
@thetopcat
May I check whether the photos in your opening post were taken by you — or if they were instead sent to you by another forum member / eBay seller / private dealer?
EDIT:
Sorry, another question: Do you own the print, or is it just one that you're thinking about purchasing?
Just to respectfully say that I haven't bodged the signature myself, it was the likely legit backdoor print that caught my eye Is the general consensus that its a badly forged signature but the prints legit? I'll post better photos later@thetopcat May I check whether the photos in your opening post were taken by you — or if they were instead sent to you by another forum member / eB ay seller / private dealer? EDIT: Sorry, another question: Do you own the print, or is it just one that you're thinking about purchasing?
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met
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Martin Whatson AP of 5 , by met on Jul 14, 2020 17:37:56 GMT 1, Never heard so much jealousy. if you don’t like Martins work and the skyrocketing prices don’t buy it To the poster what are you asking. Blind forum offers aren’t my thing but if you have a price I May pay it. Sean Allow me to challenge you on a point:
When assessing the artwork criticisms in this thread, do you really attribute all of these to "jealousy"?
Surely there exists other possible explanations that are more credible.
Can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not a jealous person. And even if you meant to say "envy", the latter has never been a motivator for any of my posts.
Never heard so much jealousy. if you don’t like Martins work and the skyrocketing prices don’t buy it To the poster what are you asking. Blind forum offers aren’t my thing but if you have a price I May pay it. Sean Allow me to challenge you on a point: When assessing the artwork criticisms in this thread, do you really attribute all of these to "jealousy"? Surely there exists other possible explanations that are more credible. Can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not a jealous person. And even if you meant to say "envy", the latter has never been a motivator for any of my posts.
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met
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Madsaki 🇯🇵 New Print Release • Exhibition News , by met on Jul 14, 2020 9:56:18 GMT 1, What do you mean by what a for-sale thread "means"? My inference from this (which I'm hoping is false) is that it's being suggested a for-sale thread means, or should mean, only one thing or one set of things: (i) to you, to me, to the thousands of other members on this public forum; and (ii) alternative viewpoints are not just different, but patently wrong. You’re correct your inference would be incorrect, but also I’ve poorly worded it. I merely see little of constructive value or humour in the turn this thread took.
Very pleased to hear that.
Because I myself see every thread relating to art (including, and perhaps especially, sale threads) as an invitation and opportunity for us to exchange views on the strengths and weaknesses of that art.
Such discussions are of greatest value to less-experienced potential buyers.
If any sellers are squeamish or have issues with open commentary on the works they're offloading, then other sale platforms are readily available to them.
What do you mean by what a for-sale thread "means"? My inference from this (which I'm hoping is false) is that it's being suggested a for-sale thread means, or should mean, only one thing or one set of things: (i) to you, to me, to the thousands of other members on this public forum; and (ii) alternative viewpoints are not just different, but patently wrong. You’re correct your inference would be incorrect, but also I’ve poorly worded it. I merely see little of constructive value or humour in the turn this thread took. Very pleased to hear that. Because I myself see every thread relating to art (including, and perhaps especially, sale threads) as an invitation and opportunity for us to exchange views on the strengths and weaknesses of that art. Such discussions are of greatest value to less-experienced potential buyers. If any sellers are squeamish or have issues with open commentary on the works they're offloading, then other sale platforms are readily available to them.
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met
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Madsaki 🇯🇵 New Print Release • Exhibition News , by met on Jul 14, 2020 9:28:44 GMT 1, 10 years ago, I’d have joined in, 5 years ago I’d have started a discussion about art and secondary, 2 years ago I’d have reminded people this is a for sale thread and outlined what this means. now I just make this observation and wonder if this place is destined to continue circling until it disappears up its own arse
What do you mean by what a for-sale thread "means"?
My inference from this (which I'm hoping is false) is that it's being suggested a for-sale thread means, or should mean, only one thing or one set of things:
(i) to you, to me, to the thousands of other members on this public forum; and
(ii) alternative viewpoints are not just different, but patently wrong.
10 years ago, I’d have joined in, 5 years ago I’d have started a discussion about art and secondary, 2 years ago I’d have reminded people this is a for sale thread and outlined what this means. now I just make this observation and wonder if this place is destined to continue circling until it disappears up its own arse What do you mean by what a for-sale thread "means"? My inference from this (which I'm hoping is false) is that it's being suggested a for-sale thread means, or should mean, only one thing or one set of things: (i) to you, to me, to the thousands of other members on this public forum; and (ii) alternative viewpoints are not just different, but patently wrong.
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met
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Martin Whatson AP of 5 , by met on Jul 12, 2020 13:32:24 GMT 1, It's understandable how that part of my comment could be misinterpreted. But if we can agree on the importance of intent, then rest assured there was no suggestion by me that Carla Bruni isn't her own person. I'm a fashion photography enthusiast who's kept an eye on her career(s) since her early days of modelling. Long before she got married. Long before I started paying any attention her husband. Despite my being wary and often critical of society's all-too-common tendency of assuming guilt by association, the nature of the relationship between two individuals (along with their identities) does hold relevance. In this respect, loose acquaintances or business contacts would not be comparable, for example, to a married couple. And so the reference I made to "Sarkozy's wife" was deliberate. What it hopefully serves to emphasise is the following: When somebody is the spouse of a current or former world leader, that status is significant. It will typically be at the forefront of the public's mind. Moreover, it will typically be accompanied by a great deal of baggage — often to the point of eclipsing the spouse's own singularity. A more extreme case to better illustrate:If shown a photograph of Melania Trump, be it recent or from 30 years ago, average Joe and Jane are more likely to see the current US President's wife than an autonomous individual. And if Joe or Jane were to then hang that photo on their wall at home, many other people would (rightly or wrongly, and because of the weighty association) judge or question them accordingly. The open acknowledgement of this reality is not something I would describe as condescending. It's a bit weak, met. Also I have a hard time believing the average Joe and Jane would be visiting your house. But if that's how you would describe your visitors, that's fine by me. So for the same reason - being a fashion enthusiast - you wouldn't hang a signed photograph by Dave Stewart of Carla Bruni on your wall, in fear of remarks by your visitors ?
Whether it's moving the goalposts or these are just follow-ups, I'm okay in principle to continue. But before doing so, it would be useful to learn where we are now regarding your original comment:
You had suggested my "Sarkozy's wife" reference was rather condescending. I then confirmed those words were chosen to highlight a separate issue, and that Carla Bruni wasn't the target of any condescension by me.
Are we good on that specific first point?
[I ask because the reply, "It's a bit weak", felt vague. It wasn't clear for me if my assurance to you had been accepted at face value. Or if instead you believed I was being untruthful (and that I had in fact actually meant to be condescending towards Bruni).]
It's understandable how that part of my comment could be misinterpreted. But if we can agree on the importance of intent, then rest assured there was no suggestion by me that Carla Bruni isn't her own person. I'm a fashion photography enthusiast who's kept an eye on her career(s) since her early days of modelling. Long before she got married. Long before I started paying any attention her husband. Despite my being wary and often critical of society's all-too-common tendency of assuming guilt by association, the nature of the relationship between two individuals (along with their identities) does hold relevance. In this respect, loose acquaintances or business contacts would not be comparable, for example, to a married couple. And so the reference I made to "Sarkozy's wife" was deliberate. What it hopefully serves to emphasise is the following: When somebody is the spouse of a current or former world leader, that status is significant. It will typically be at the forefront of the public's mind. Moreover, it will typically be accompanied by a great deal of baggage — often to the point of eclipsing the spouse's own singularity. A more extreme case to better illustrate:If shown a photograph of Melania Trump, be it recent or from 30 years ago, average Joe and Jane are more likely to see the current US President's wife than an autonomous individual. And if Joe or Jane were to then hang that photo on their wall at home, many other people would (rightly or wrongly, and because of the weighty association) judge or question them accordingly. The open acknowledgement of this reality is not something I would describe as condescending. It's a bit weak, met. Also I have a hard time believing the average Joe and Jane would be visiting your house. But if that's how you would describe your visitors, that's fine by me. So for the same reason - being a fashion enthusiast - you wouldn't hang a signed photograph by Dave Stewart of Carla Bruni on your wall, in fear of remarks by your visitors ? Whether it's moving the goalposts or these are just follow-ups, I'm okay in principle to continue. But before doing so, it would be useful to learn where we are now regarding your original comment: You had suggested my "Sarkozy's wife" reference was rather condescending. I then confirmed those words were chosen to highlight a separate issue, and that Carla Bruni wasn't the target of any condescension by me. Are we good on that specific first point? [I ask because the reply, "It's a bit weak", felt vague. It wasn't clear for me if my assurance to you had been accepted at face value. Or if instead you believed I was being untruthful (and that I had in fact actually meant to be condescending towards Bruni).]
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met
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Kaws • Man’s Best Friend • 10 Print Set, by met on Jul 12, 2020 12:57:18 GMT 1, Many thanks for the enjoyable post, vvk. It covers one of the points I'd been holding back as a follow-up to a first reply I had for preacher. However, that first reply was never posted by me. I abandoned the idea after sensing it was unlikely they would accept my challenge for them — which involved formulating good-faith responses, requiring more time and effort than I assumed they were prepared to commit. Reading your comments pushed me to reconsider. My assumptions about preacher were unfair. And for this, I would like to apologise. __________ Before expressing an opinion, the exercise I always find most beneficial is to argue against myself, including by trying to place myself in the shoes of the various parties involved. Viewing things from as many different perspectives as possible generally has a moderating effect. It also allows me to shore up my own position, identify the weak links, fine-tune and nuance my arguments — or even abandon my initial position altogether in favour of a more rigorously considered one. So here's my challenge to preacher:Assume you are taking part in an intellectually-honest debate — but on the opposing side. Alternatively, just pretend you're KA WS, or representative of the artist. What are the different arguments you would raise by way of rebuttal, to counter and parry the two statements below? It’s the pricing now that’s shafted across the board. 8k for a print, and it’s like there doing us a favour. I would rather have the bun fight and not get one at £500. Prints used to be for the collectors who couldn’t afford originals. Now in a lot of cases collectors can’t afford the prints. He’s a wanker.
sorry did I come across whiny? You missed my point you seem to do this a lot. It’s about costs for the common person I was getting at. Wanker is a bit strong but it’s how I feel about these high end artists at times. I don’t think any artist should release a print above 1k. Kaws is at a level where his originals sell for millions to collectors with millions to spend. The print market in my eyes should be accessible to all. It’s feels like a cash grab. Also why is shipping for a 2’ x 2’ print $600.Hello Met I accept your apology and your challenge.
Thank you, preacher.
It's a pleasure to hear that. Especially because I am very conscious of the effort required — to generally step back and view an issue with cool detachment from a greater distance. And more specifically to view it from (and genuinely try to understand) the perspective of the other side.
What often happens with me is that my initial position shifts. Sometimes ever-so-slightly, sometimes quite noticeably.
Yet even when my position remains fixed, many times I still sense a softening in my attitude towards the opposing side. That attitude will evolve from what was originally a knee-jerk reaction. As a result, I become less intellectually lazy, less tempted to dismiss others offhand as ignorant, foolish, "wrong" or foul — and more willing to:
(i) listen, think further, continue engaging in civil discourse;
(ii) be charitable by giving others the benefit of the doubt; and
(iii) see others as fellow humans who hold opinions (or have priorities and concerns) that are simply different to my own.
__________
I should add that your reply was even more appreciated because I suspect the number of forum members who would have ignored my challenge is greater than those who would have accepted it.
For me, this is another helpful reminder of the perils of making assumptions (favourable or unfavourable) about members on the basis of their post count alone.
Looking forward to hearing your thoughts in due course.
Many thanks for the enjoyable post, vvk. It covers one of the points I'd been holding back as a follow-up to a first reply I had for preacher. However, that first reply was never posted by me. I abandoned the idea after sensing it was unlikely they would accept my challenge for them — which involved formulating good-faith responses, requiring more time and effort than I assumed they were prepared to commit. Reading your comments pushed me to reconsider. My assumptions about preacher were unfair. And for this, I would like to apologise. __________ Before expressing an opinion, the exercise I always find most beneficial is to argue against myself, including by trying to place myself in the shoes of the various parties involved. Viewing things from as many different perspectives as possible generally has a moderating effect. It also allows me to shore up my own position, identify the weak links, fine-tune and nuance my arguments — or even abandon my initial position altogether in favour of a more rigorously considered one. So here's my challenge to preacher:Assume you are taking part in an intellectually-honest debate — but on the opposing side. Alternatively, just pretend you're KA WS, or representative of the artist. What are the different arguments you would raise by way of rebuttal, to counter and parry the two statements below? It’s the pricing now that’s shafted across the board. 8k for a print, and it’s like there doing us a favour. I would rather have the bun fight and not get one at £500. Prints used to be for the collectors who couldn’t afford originals. Now in a lot of cases collectors can’t afford the prints. He’s a wanker.
sorry did I come across whiny? You missed my point you seem to do this a lot. It’s about costs for the common person I was getting at. Wanker is a bit strong but it’s how I feel about these high end artists at times. I don’t think any artist should release a print above 1k. Kaws is at a level where his originals sell for millions to collectors with millions to spend. The print market in my eyes should be accessible to all. It’s feels like a cash grab. Also why is shipping for a 2’ x 2’ print $600.Hello Met I accept your apology and your challenge. Thank you, preacher. It's a pleasure to hear that. Especially because I am very conscious of the effort required — to generally step back and view an issue with cool detachment from a greater distance. And more specifically to view it from (and genuinely try to understand) the perspective of the other side. What often happens with me is that my initial position shifts. Sometimes ever-so-slightly, sometimes quite noticeably. Yet even when my position remains fixed, many times I still sense a softening in my attitude towards the opposing side. That attitude will evolve from what was originally a knee-jerk reaction. As a result, I become less intellectually lazy, less tempted to dismiss others offhand as ignorant, foolish, "wrong" or foul — and more willing to: (i) listen, think further, continue engaging in civil discourse; (ii) be charitable by giving others the benefit of the doubt; and (iii) see others as fellow humans who hold opinions (or have priorities and concerns) that are simply different to my own. __________ I should add that your reply was even more appreciated because I suspect the number of forum members who would have ignored my challenge is greater than those who would have accepted it. For me, this is another helpful reminder of the perils of making assumptions (favourable or unfavourable) about members on the basis of their post count alone. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts in due course.
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met
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Martin Whatson AP of 5 , by met on Jul 11, 2020 15:25:48 GMT 1, In my search for common ground, we can agree on "old" (despite 2013 feeling like yesterday to me). The point on which we happen to disagree is artistic calibre. While I'm reassured about the fact my opinion of some artists has evolved over time, that opinion has been consistently low when it comes to Martin Whatson. And even by his standards, I would still argue * that The Cover Up is poorly executed — whether we're talking about the originals or the different print editions and artist proofs. But let's imagine I actually did believe What son had talent. If somebody were to then ask, "Why is there a naked picture of Sarkozy's wife on your wall?", it's a question I'd have difficulty answering. You are of course entitled to your opinion of Martin. But the lady is a person on her own.... Calling someone "the husband of" is rather condescending.
It's understandable how that part of my comment could be misinterpreted.
But if we can agree on the importance of intent, then rest assured there was no suggestion by me that Carla Bruni isn't her own person. I'm a fashion photography enthusiast who's kept an eye on her career(s) since her early days of modelling. Long before she got married. Long before I started paying any attention her husband.
Despite my being wary and often critical of society's all-too-common tendency of assuming guilt by association, the nature of the relationship between two individuals (along with their identities) does hold relevance. In this respect, loose acquaintances or business contacts would not be comparable, for example, to a married couple.
And so the reference I made to "Sarkozy's wife" was deliberate. What it hopefully serves to emphasise is the following:
When somebody is the spouse of a current or former world leader, that status is significant. It will typically be at the forefront of the public's mind. Moreover, it will typically be accompanied by a great deal of baggage — often to the point of eclipsing the spouse's own singularity.
A more extreme case to better illustrate:
If shown a photograph of Melania Trump, be it recent or from 30 years ago, average Joe and Jane are more likely to see the current US President's wife than an autonomous individual. And if Joe or Jane were to then hang that photo on their wall at home, many other people would (rightly or wrongly, and because of the weighty association) judge or question them accordingly.
The open acknowledgement of this reality is not something I would describe as condescending.
In my search for common ground, we can agree on "old" (despite 2013 feeling like yesterday to me). The point on which we happen to disagree is artistic calibre. While I'm reassured about the fact my opinion of some artists has evolved over time, that opinion has been consistently low when it comes to Martin Whatson. And even by his standards, I would still argue * that The Cover Up is poorly executed — whether we're talking about the originals or the different print editions and artist proofs. But let's imagine I actually did believe What son had talent. If somebody were to then ask, "Why is there a naked picture of Sarkozy's wife on your wall?", it's a question I'd have difficulty answering. You are of course entitled to your opinion of Martin. But the lady is a person on her own.... Calling someone "the husband of" is rather condescending. It's understandable how that part of my comment could be misinterpreted. But if we can agree on the importance of intent, then rest assured there was no suggestion by me that Carla Bruni isn't her own person. I'm a fashion photography enthusiast who's kept an eye on her career(s) since her early days of modelling. Long before she got married. Long before I started paying any attention her husband. Despite my being wary and often critical of society's all-too-common tendency of assuming guilt by association, the nature of the relationship between two individuals (along with their identities) does hold relevance. In this respect, loose acquaintances or business contacts would not be comparable, for example, to a married couple. And so the reference I made to "Sarkozy's wife" was deliberate. What it hopefully serves to emphasise is the following: When somebody is the spouse of a current or former world leader, that status is significant. It will typically be at the forefront of the public's mind. Moreover, it will typically be accompanied by a great deal of baggage — often to the point of eclipsing the spouse's own singularity. A more extreme case to better illustrate:If shown a photograph of Melania Trump, be it recent or from 30 years ago, average Joe and Jane are more likely to see the current US President's wife than an autonomous individual. And if Joe or Jane were to then hang that photo on their wall at home, many other people would (rightly or wrongly, and because of the weighty association) judge or question them accordingly. The open acknowledgement of this reality is not something I would describe as condescending.
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met
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Martin Whatson AP of 5 , by met on Jul 10, 2020 14:05:27 GMT 1, ![](https://i.imgur.com/Q7kEvSW.jpg) another old school piece, looking for interest and thoughts on pricing for this artist proof limited edition of 5 COA in hand kept in smoke and pet free home since purchased stay safe and enjoy
In my search for common ground, we can agree on "old" (despite 2013 feeling like yesterday to me).
The point on which we happen to disagree is artistic calibre.
While I'm reassured about the fact my opinion of some artists has evolved over time, that opinion has been consistently low when it comes to Martin Whatson. And even by his standards, I would still argue* that The Cover Up is poorly executed — whether we're talking about the originals or the different print editions and artist proofs.
But let's imagine I actually did believe Whatson had talent.
If somebody were to then ask, "Why is there a naked picture of Sarkozy's wife on your wall?", it's a question I'd have difficulty answering.
![](https://i.imgur.com/Q7kEvSW.jpg) another old school piece, looking for interest and thoughts on pricing for this artist proof limited edition of 5 COA in hand kept in smoke and pet free home since purchased stay safe and enjoy In my search for common ground, we can agree on "old" (despite 2013 feeling like yesterday to me). The point on which we happen to disagree is artistic calibre. While I'm reassured about the fact my opinion of some artists has evolved over time, that opinion has been consistently low when it comes to Martin Whatson. And even by his standards, I would still argue * that The Cover Up is poorly executed — whether we're talking about the originals or the different print editions and artist proofs. But let's imagine I actually did believe What son had talent. If somebody were to then ask, "Why is there a naked picture of Sarkozy's wife on your wall?", it's a question I'd have difficulty answering.
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met
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Kaws • Man’s Best Friend • 10 Print Set, by met on Jul 10, 2020 11:21:20 GMT 1, sorry did I come across whiny? You missed my point you seem to do this a lot. It’s about costs for the common person I was getting at. Wanker is a bit strong but it’s how I feel about these high end artists at times. I don’t think any artist should release a print above 1k. Kaws is at a level where his originals sell for millions to collectors with millions to spend. The print market in my eyes should be accessible to all. It’s feels like a cash grab. Also why is shipping for a 2’ x 2’ print $600. No offence, but I don’t think your argument is sound. I get your sentiment. Why should artist prints be under 1k? They have worked very hard or have been very lucky to be able to get to that level. (Some artist can’t gives**t away) If you want a print under 1k. Why don’t you just print it out yourself and hang it on the wall . If you really like a pice of art, why is it important that a artist signature is on it? when I was young I saw a portrait print at the zgallery ( art Print stores in malls) I could not afford the 45.00 print(Framed) . I would sometimes go to the mall just to see this photo/ print. I remember the print to this day and some of you may as well. A sailor and his girlfriend kissing as he came off a ship. At the time home printers were not a thing. But imagine my excitement when I found a print of it in the newspaper. I cut it out aNd made a little cardboard frane and kept it by my bedside for many years... it was about 3x4 inches. It made me very happy to wake up and see that image every day. It was inspiring , it moved me. I guess the point I’m trying to make is that we live in a time of technology that, Money is not really a factor if you really like art. Yes it would be great to have a original from a artist . But if you don’t have the means, print one out snd Hang it on the wall . Fast forward 30 plus years. Can you imagine my excitement when banksy made the flower thrower a free download and I had the means to print it out and put it on my wall . Yeah I would of been over the moon for a actual item from gdp. And I’m genuinely happy for all who got one and post here here . It’s life changing in so many ways.. but if I could not get a og. I’m happy that I was able to download and print one out and hang it on the wall to see it every day. And everyone else that sees it in my office (and knows it’s a print out) seem to be inspired too.
Many thanks for the enjoyable post, vvk.
It covers one of the points I'd been holding back as a follow-up to a first reply I had for preacher.
However, that first reply was never posted by me. I abandoned the idea after sensing it was unlikely they would accept my challenge for them — which involved formulating good-faith responses, requiring more time and effort than I assumed they were prepared to commit.
Reading your comments pushed me to reconsider. My assumptions about preacher were unfair. And for this, I would like to apologise.
__________
Before expressing an opinion, the exercise I always find most beneficial is to argue against myself, including by trying to place myself in the shoes of the various parties involved.
Viewing things from as many different perspectives as possible generally has a moderating effect. It also allows me to shore up my own position, identify the weak links, fine-tune and nuance my arguments — or even abandon my initial position altogether in favour of a more rigorously considered one.
So here's my challenge to preacher:
Assume you are taking part in an intellectually-honest debate — but on the opposing side. Alternatively, just pretend you're KAWS, or representative of the artist.
What are the different arguments you would raise by way of rebuttal, to counter and parry the two statements below?
It’s the pricing now that’s shafted across the board. 8k for a print, and it’s like there doing us a favour. I would rather have the bun fight and not get one at £500. Prints used to be for the collectors who couldn’t afford originals. Now in a lot of cases collectors can’t afford the prints. He’s a wanker.
sorry did I come across whiny? You missed my point you seem to do this a lot. It’s about costs for the common person I was getting at. Wanker is a bit strong but it’s how I feel about these high end artists at times. I don’t think any artist should release a print above 1k. Kaws is at a level where his originals sell for millions to collectors with millions to spend. The print market in my eyes should be accessible to all. It’s feels like a cash grab. Also why is shipping for a 2’ x 2’ print $600.
sorry did I come across whiny? You missed my point you seem to do this a lot. It’s about costs for the common person I was getting at. Wanker is a bit strong but it’s how I feel about these high end artists at times. I don’t think any artist should release a print above 1k. Kaws is at a level where his originals sell for millions to collectors with millions to spend. The print market in my eyes should be accessible to all. It’s feels like a cash grab. Also why is shipping for a 2’ x 2’ print $600. No offence, but I don’t think your argument is sound. I get your sentiment. Why should artist prints be under 1k? They have worked very hard or have been very lucky to be able to get to that level. (Some artist can’t gives**t away) If you want a print under 1k. Why don’t you just print it out yourself and hang it on the wall . If you really like a pice of art, why is it important that a artist signature is on it? when I was young I saw a portrait print at the zgallery ( art Print stores in malls) I could not afford the 45.00 print(Framed) . I would sometimes go to the mall just to see this photo/ print. I remember the print to this day and some of you may as well. A sailor and his girlfriend kissing as he came off a ship. At the time home printers were not a thing. But imagine my excitement when I found a print of it in the newspaper. I cut it out aNd made a little cardboard frane and kept it by my bedside for many years... it was about 3x4 inches. It made me very happy to wake up and see that image every day. It was inspiring , it moved me. I guess the point I’m trying to make is that we live in a time of technology that, Money is not really a factor if you really like art. Yes it would be great to have a original from a artist . But if you don’t have the means, print one out snd Hang it on the wall . Fast forward 30 plus years. Can you imagine my excitement when banksy made the flower thrower a free download and I had the means to print it out and put it on my wall . Yeah I would of been over the moon for a actual item from gdp. And I’m genuinely happy for all who got one and post here here . It’s life changing in so many ways.. but if I could not get a og. I’m happy that I was able to download and print one out and hang it on the wall to see it every day. And everyone else that sees it in my office (and knows it’s a print out) seem to be inspired too. Many thanks for the enjoyable post, vvk. It covers one of the points I'd been holding back as a follow-up to a first reply I had for preacher. However, that first reply was never posted by me. I abandoned the idea after sensing it was unlikely they would accept my challenge for them — which involved formulating good-faith responses, requiring more time and effort than I assumed they were prepared to commit. Reading your comments pushed me to reconsider. My assumptions about preacher were unfair. And for this, I would like to apologise. __________ Before expressing an opinion, the exercise I always find most beneficial is to argue against myself, including by trying to place myself in the shoes of the various parties involved. Viewing things from as many different perspectives as possible generally has a moderating effect. It also allows me to shore up my own position, identify the weak links, fine-tune and nuance my arguments — or even abandon my initial position altogether in favour of a more rigorously considered one. So here's my challenge to preacher:Assume you are taking part in an intellectually-honest debate — but on the opposing side. Alternatively, just pretend you're KA WS, or representative of the artist. What are the different arguments you would raise by way of rebuttal, to counter and parry the two statements below? It’s the pricing now that’s shafted across the board. 8k for a print, and it’s like there doing us a favour. I would rather have the bun fight and not get one at £500. Prints used to be for the collectors who couldn’t afford originals. Now in a lot of cases collectors can’t afford the prints. He’s a wanker.
sorry did I come across whiny? You missed my point you seem to do this a lot. It’s about costs for the common person I was getting at. Wanker is a bit strong but it’s how I feel about these high end artists at times. I don’t think any artist should release a print above 1k. Kaws is at a level where his originals sell for millions to collectors with millions to spend. The print market in my eyes should be accessible to all. It’s feels like a cash grab. Also why is shipping for a 2’ x 2’ print $600.
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met
Junior Member
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Posts • 2,702
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June 2009
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THE MET LOTTERY, by met on Jul 9, 2020 23:41:05 GMT 1, The only part of Jonathan Pie's rant I initially found grating is his reference at 3:53 to "A liberal Left". But I now suspect that's just an ironic jab at the regressive, illiberal Left. The political spectrum has always been more of a circle than a straight line.
WOKE Utopia - uploaded by Jonathan Pie on 27 June 2020
The only part of Jonathan Pie's rant I initially found grating is his reference at 3:53 to "A liberal Left". But I now suspect that's just an ironic jab at the regressive, illiberal Left. The political spectrum has always been more of a circle than a straight line.
WOKE Utopia - uploaded by Jonathan Pie on 27 June 2020
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