Baby Dave
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,403
๐๐ป 347
February 2011
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Another unarmed black teen killed by the police, by Baby Dave on Aug 18, 2014 17:05:09 GMT 1, A bullet is designed to kill. Unfortunately there are no non lethal bullets. The lethality revolves solely around bullet placement. Firearms officers are trained to aim for the largest body mass, namely the torso. This is so the risk of missing is reduced. Although aiming for the legs, arm, hand etc would be ideal, under a high stress situation you are less likely to get a hit. If the subject is moving, running, flailing, then there's the clear chance the bullet will miss the torso and hit an extremity. (Head, arm etc) There are non lethal options, such as baton, pepper spray, taser, tactical retreat(!), but they are not always viable. Decisions are made in split seconds. I am in no way condoning any actions of anyone. I would rather see all the evidence and facts laid out in front of me. It's a tragic loss of life where the full circumstances aren't entirely clear yet. It is down to the officer to justify his actions and use of force. Then it's down to the governing body to decide whether these actions were legal. We can all speculate and cast our own opinions but without all the facts we are just arguing partially blind. A very interesting debate nonetheless aren't there rubber bullets? isn't that what they fired at the protestors over the weekend?
Rubber bullets are big old things. They are fired from quite a large weapon, not a small side arm.
Again, for an officer to make that split second decision to use that he would have to get the weapon from the boot (most likely) and use it. This would take a fair amount of time in relation to the situation at hand.
I'm not too sure if they are standard bits of kit in the car in the states either.
A bullet is designed to kill. Unfortunately there are no non lethal bullets. The lethality revolves solely around bullet placement. Firearms officers are trained to aim for the largest body mass, namely the torso. This is so the risk of missing is reduced. Although aiming for the legs, arm, hand etc would be ideal, under a high stress situation you are less likely to get a hit. If the subject is moving, running, flailing, then there's the clear chance the bullet will miss the torso and hit an extremity. (Head, arm etc) There are non lethal options, such as baton, pepper spray, taser, tactical retreat(!), but they are not always viable. Decisions are made in split seconds. I am in no way condoning any actions of anyone. I would rather see all the evidence and facts laid out in front of me. It's a tragic loss of life where the full circumstances aren't entirely clear yet. It is down to the officer to justify his actions and use of force. Then it's down to the governing body to decide whether these actions were legal. We can all speculate and cast our own opinions but without all the facts we are just arguing partially blind. A very interesting debate nonetheless aren't there rubber bullets? isn't that what they fired at the protestors over the weekend? Rubber bullets are big old things. They are fired from quite a large weapon, not a small side arm. Again, for an officer to make that split second decision to use that he would have to get the weapon from the boot (most likely) and use it. This would take a fair amount of time in relation to the situation at hand. I'm not too sure if they are standard bits of kit in the car in the states either. |
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Baby Dave
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,403
๐๐ป 347
February 2011
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Another unarmed black teen killed by the police, by Baby Dave on Aug 18, 2014 17:09:12 GMT 1, A bullet is designed to kill. Unfortunately there are no non lethal bullets. The lethality revolves solely around bullet placement. Firearms officers are trained to aim for the largest body mass, namely the torso. This is so the risk of missing is reduced. Although aiming for the legs, arm, hand etc would be ideal, under a high stress situation you are less likely to get a hit. If the subject is moving, running, flailing, then there's the clear chance the bullet will miss the torso and hit an extremity. (Head, arm etc) There are non lethal options, such as baton, pepper spray, taser, tactical retreat(!), but they are not always viable. Decisions are made in split seconds. I am in no way condoning any actions of anyone. I would rather see all the evidence and facts laid out in front of me. It's a tragic loss of life where the full circumstances aren't entirely clear yet. It is down to the officer to justify his actions and use of force. Then it's down to the governing body to decide whether these actions were legal. We can all speculate and cast our own opinions but without all the facts we are just arguing partially blind. A very interesting debate nonetheless First shot was a split second decision. What about the following 5 shots... 2 to the head.
I totally agree!
If the threat isn't neutralized after the first shot then each successive shot should be justified.
I'm not an American firearms officer so can't comment on their training or practice.
I highly doubt that the officer aimed for the head. It was more than likely the case that the subject was moving and bending whilst the shots were fired. But who knows?
A bullet is designed to kill. Unfortunately there are no non lethal bullets. The lethality revolves solely around bullet placement. Firearms officers are trained to aim for the largest body mass, namely the torso. This is so the risk of missing is reduced. Although aiming for the legs, arm, hand etc would be ideal, under a high stress situation you are less likely to get a hit. If the subject is moving, running, flailing, then there's the clear chance the bullet will miss the torso and hit an extremity. (Head, arm etc) There are non lethal options, such as baton, pepper spray, taser, tactical retreat(!), but they are not always viable. Decisions are made in split seconds. I am in no way condoning any actions of anyone. I would rather see all the evidence and facts laid out in front of me. It's a tragic loss of life where the full circumstances aren't entirely clear yet. It is down to the officer to justify his actions and use of force. Then it's down to the governing body to decide whether these actions were legal. We can all speculate and cast our own opinions but without all the facts we are just arguing partially blind. A very interesting debate nonetheless First shot was a split second decision. What about the following 5 shots... 2 to the head. I totally agree! If the threat isn't neutralized after the first shot then each successive shot should be justified. I'm not an American firearms officer so can't comment on their training or practice. I highly doubt that the officer aimed for the head. It was more than likely the case that the subject was moving and bending whilst the shots were fired. But who knows? |
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cornholio
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 300
๐๐ป 98
February 2011
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Another unarmed black teen killed by the police, by cornholio on Aug 18, 2014 17:58:27 GMT 1, First shot was a split second decision. What about the following 5 shots... 2 to the head.
Easy to comment on this from 3000 miles away, tougher when you have a 6'4" guy that weighs over 200 pounds inches from your gun. A guy who had just robbed a store, slammed someone into a wall and who was for sure still pumped up on adrenaline (and maybe other things) when he ran into the cop. And the eyewitnesses, yeah they're all very reliable, not.
I'm no fan of the police, I had a classmate incarcerated on trumped up charges related to political protests here in the U.S. I know they can do effed up s$#t. And I get why they're upset in Ferguson. But just be careful who you try and turn into martyrs. This "little kid" isn't that innocent. You live by the sword you die by the sword.
First shot was a split second decision. What about the following 5 shots... 2 to the head. Easy to comment on this from 3000 miles away, tougher when you have a 6'4" guy that weighs over 200 pounds inches from your gun. A guy who had just robbed a store, slammed someone into a wall and who was for sure still pumped up on adrenaline (and maybe other things) when he ran into the cop. And the eyewitnesses, yeah they're all very reliable, not. I'm no fan of the police, I had a classmate incarcerated on trumped up charges related to political protests here in the U.S. I know they can do effed up s$#t. And I get why they're upset in Ferguson. But just be careful who you try and turn into martyrs. This "little kid" isn't that innocent. You live by the sword you die by the sword. |
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South Bound
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,483
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May 2014
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Another unarmed black teen killed by the police, by South Bound on Aug 18, 2014 18:11:45 GMT 1, First shot was a split second decision. What about the following 5 shots... 2 to the head. Easy to comment on this from 3000 miles away, tougher when you have a 6'4" guy that weighs over 200 pounds inches from your gun. A guy who had just robbed a store, slammed someone into a wall and who was for sure still pumped up on adrenaline (and maybe other things) when he ran into the cop. And the eyewitnesses, yeah they're all very reliable, not. I'm no fan of the police, I had a classmate incarcerated on trumped up charges related to political protests here in the U.S. I know they can do effed up s$#t. And I get why they're upset in Ferguson. But just be careful who you try and turn into martyrs. This "little kid" isn't that innocent. You live by the sword you die by the sword.
1) I live MUCH closer to the epicenter then you imply
2) Saying an unarmed kid does not deserve to be shot 6 times and twice in the head does not qualify as me calling him a martyr.
3) Thus far majority of witnesses say he was fleeing not approaching...
4) qualifying his size as an appropriate reason to use deadly force is like saying "His head was so huge that of course I shot there twice.
5) Thus far they have found a lack of gun powder residue that indicates he was not as close to the officer as has been suggested
Would love to know how an unarmed kid is living by the sword?
First shot was a split second decision. What about the following 5 shots... 2 to the head. Easy to comment on this from 3000 miles away, tougher when you have a 6'4" guy that weighs over 200 pounds inches from your gun. A guy who had just robbed a store, slammed someone into a wall and who was for sure still pumped up on adrenaline (and maybe other things) when he ran into the cop. And the eyewitnesses, yeah they're all very reliable, not. I'm no fan of the police, I had a classmate incarcerated on trumped up charges related to political protests here in the U.S. I know they can do effed up s$#t. And I get why they're upset in Ferguson. But just be careful who you try and turn into martyrs. This "little kid" isn't that innocent. You live by the sword you die by the sword. 1) I live MUCH closer to the epicenter then you imply 2) Saying an unarmed kid does not deserve to be shot 6 times and twice in the head does not qualify as me calling him a martyr. 3) Thus far majority of witnesses say he was fleeing not approaching... 4) qualifying his size as an appropriate reason to use deadly force is like saying "His head was so huge that of course I shot there twice. 5) Thus far they have found a lack of gun powder residue that indicates he was not as close to the officer as has been suggested Would love to know how an unarmed kid is living by the sword? |
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Another unarmed black teen killed by the police, by bullysonzx10r on Aug 18, 2014 18:26:17 GMT 1, Easy to comment on this from 3000 miles away, tougher when you have a 6'4" guy that weighs over 200 pounds inches from your gun. A guy who had just robbed a store, slammed someone into a wall and who was for sure still pumped up on adrenaline (and maybe other things) when he ran into the cop. And the eyewitnesses, yeah they're all very reliable, not. I'm no fan of the police, I had a classmate incarcerated on trumped up charges related to political protests here in the U.S. I know they can do effed up s$#t. And I get why they're upset in Ferguson. But just be careful who you try and turn into martyrs. This "little kid" isn't that innocent. You live by the sword you die by the sword. 1) I live MUCH closer to the epicenter then you imply 2) Saying an unarmed kid does not deserve to be shot 6 times and twice in the head does not qualify as me calling him a martyr. 3) Thus far majority of witnesses say he was fleeing not approaching... 4) qualifying his size as an appropriate reason to use deadly force is like saying "His head was so huge that of course I shot there twice. 5) Thus far they have found a lack of gun powder residue that indicates he was not as close to the officer as has been suggested Would love to know how an unarmed kid is living by the sword?
The audio somewhat explains the 6 shots -- in short the person talking says that the officer was shooting at the charging victim, and that it looked like he was missing because the victim just kept coming. Turns out the officer was hitting his arms, caught the neck, the face, and it looks like as the victim was falling, hit him in the top of the head as well -- which seems to be consistent with what war-vets will explain as a shot pattern on people charging them.
Again, not saying the officer was justified, more just saying that this whole situation is sad, and while this person may deserve to be in jail, they don't deserve to be dead. Just like the officer didn't expect to kill someone that day. However, the officer has to live with his actions -- which will most likely haunt him for the rest of his life -- and should.
Easy to comment on this from 3000 miles away, tougher when you have a 6'4" guy that weighs over 200 pounds inches from your gun. A guy who had just robbed a store, slammed someone into a wall and who was for sure still pumped up on adrenaline (and maybe other things) when he ran into the cop. And the eyewitnesses, yeah they're all very reliable, not. I'm no fan of the police, I had a classmate incarcerated on trumped up charges related to political protests here in the U.S. I know they can do effed up s$#t. And I get why they're upset in Ferguson. But just be careful who you try and turn into martyrs. This "little kid" isn't that innocent. You live by the sword you die by the sword. 1) I live MUCH closer to the epicenter then you imply 2) Saying an unarmed kid does not deserve to be shot 6 times and twice in the head does not qualify as me calling him a martyr. 3) Thus far majority of witnesses say he was fleeing not approaching... 4) qualifying his size as an appropriate reason to use deadly force is like saying "His head was so huge that of course I shot there twice. 5) Thus far they have found a lack of gun powder residue that indicates he was not as close to the officer as has been suggested Would love to know how an unarmed kid is living by the sword? Check out the audio I posted a few posts ago. Not saying that the guy they have on tape is right or wrong, but the fact that he was just casually talking to someone as opposed to giving a witness testimony is interesting. The audio somewhat explains the 6 shots -- in short the person talking says that the officer was shooting at the charging victim, and that it looked like he was missing because the victim just kept coming. Turns out the officer was hitting his arms, caught the neck, the face, and it looks like as the victim was falling, hit him in the top of the head as well -- which seems to be consistent with what war-vets will explain as a shot pattern on people charging them. Again, not saying the officer was justified, more just saying that this whole situation is sad, and while this person may deserve to be in jail, they don't deserve to be dead. Just like the officer didn't expect to kill someone that day. However, the officer has to live with his actions -- which will most likely haunt him for the rest of his life -- and should. |
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
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Another unarmed black teen killed by the police, by Deleted on Aug 18, 2014 18:31:17 GMT 1, First shot was a split second decision. What about the following 5 shots... 2 to the head. Easy to comment on this from 3000 miles away, tougher when you have a 6'4" guy that weighs over 200 pounds inches from your gun. A guy who had just robbed a store, slammed someone into a wall and who was for sure still pumped up on adrenaline (and maybe other things) when he ran into the cop. And the eyewitnesses, yeah they're all very reliable, not. I'm no fan of the police, I had a classmate incarcerated on trumped up charges related to political protests here in the U.S. I know they can do effed up s$#t. And I get why they're upset in Ferguson. But just be careful who you try and turn into martyrs. This "little kid" isn't that innocent. You live by the sword you die by the sword.
First shot was a split second decision. What about the following 5 shots... 2 to the head. Easy to comment on this from 3000 miles away, tougher when you have a 6'4" guy that weighs over 200 pounds inches from your gun. A guy who had just robbed a store, slammed someone into a wall and who was for sure still pumped up on adrenaline (and maybe other things) when he ran into the cop. And the eyewitnesses, yeah they're all very reliable, not. I'm no fan of the police, I had a classmate incarcerated on trumped up charges related to political protests here in the U.S. I know they can do effed up s$#t. And I get why they're upset in Ferguson. But just be careful who you try and turn into martyrs. This "little kid" isn't that innocent. You live by the sword you die by the sword. just want to clarify - the officer in question wasn't aware that the victim was a suspect in the robbery at the time of the shooting. |
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Another unarmed black teen killed by the police, by Deleted on Aug 18, 2014 18:37:31 GMT 1, In my opinion, anyone who thinks an 18yr old kid, who had already been shot, would run away, turn back around and charge at an armed policeman, is an ignorant fox news brainwashed crackhead racist with a serious lack of empathy. But that's just my opinion really.
peace
In my opinion, anyone who thinks an 18yr old kid, who had already been shot, would run away, turn back around and charge at an armed policeman, is an ignorant fox news brainwashed crackhead racist with a serious lack of empathy. But that's just my opinion really.
peace
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Another unarmed black teen killed by the police, by Deleted on Aug 18, 2014 18:44:18 GMT 1, Not putting any blame on Brown or saying he did anything to justify being shot as only the witness who was there and the police officer and any other witnesses really know what happened.
So hope they either have some footage from the police car or other info that is true that can be made public.
but a lot of eighteen year olds think they are indestructible and a lot of people these days have no respect for the police.
Also prisons and hospitals etc are full of people who did not behave rationally.
Lots of videos on liveleak talking about what happened
Not putting any blame on Brown or saying he did anything to justify being shot as only the witness who was there and the police officer and any other witnesses really know what happened.
So hope they either have some footage from the police car or other info that is true that can be made public.
but a lot of eighteen year olds think they are indestructible and a lot of people these days have no respect for the police.
Also prisons and hospitals etc are full of people who did not behave rationally.
Lots of videos on liveleak talking about what happened
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Another unarmed black teen killed by the police, by Deleted on Aug 18, 2014 18:49:06 GMT 1,
Insightful piece from John Oliver
Insightful piece from John Oliver
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Another unarmed black teen killed by the police, by Deleted on Aug 18, 2014 18:56:24 GMT 1, Insightful piece from John Oliver
Insightful piece from John Oliver what a moron this presenter is. He reminds me of Ben Elton |
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Another unarmed black teen killed by the police, by Deleted on Aug 18, 2014 19:01:45 GMT 1, there was a lot of coverage of that incident as well at the time. and same with the person who was choked to death in NYC recently. I think the Ferguson case was escalated on the public radar because of how the protestors and reporters were treated by the local cops before the state police took over the town
there was a lot of coverage of that incident as well at the time. and same with the person who was choked to death in NYC recently. I think the Ferguson case was escalated on the public radar because of how the protestors and reporters were treated by the local cops before the state police took over the town |
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Another unarmed black teen killed by the police, by Deleted on Aug 18, 2014 19:03:08 GMT 1, also because of the lack of transparency by the investigation
also because of the lack of transparency by the investigation
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Another unarmed black teen killed by the police, by bullysonzx10r on Aug 18, 2014 19:05:58 GMT 1, In my opinion, anyone who thinks an 18yr old kid, who had already been shot, would run away, turn back around and charge at an armed policeman, is an ignorant fox news brainwashed crackhead racist with a serious lack of empathy. But that's just my opinion really. peace
Again, I don't think murdering a civilian is correct, I'm just trying to make sure the tiny amount of facts that are available are not lost.
In my opinion, anyone who thinks an 18yr old kid, who had already been shot, would run away, turn back around and charge at an armed policeman, is an ignorant fox news brainwashed crackhead racist with a serious lack of empathy. But that's just my opinion really. peace Just to cut down on confusion. The autopsy that the family had performed indicated that the bullets all entered from the front. So he had not been shot when he turned around and charged the officer. Again, I don't think murdering a civilian is correct, I'm just trying to make sure the tiny amount of facts that are available are not lost. |
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Another unarmed black teen killed by the police, by Deleted on Aug 18, 2014 19:06:45 GMT 1, there was a lot of coverage of that incident as well at the time. and same with the person who was choked to death in NYC recently. I think the Ferguson case was escalated on the public radar because of how the protestors and reporters were treated by the local cops before the state police took over the town The TV presenter in the clip above. I doubt lives in a black neighbourhood and looks to be promoting himself by treating viewers as idiots.
When something happens like Ferguson and demonstrators there are always police shills who try to start troble posing as rioters.
Also the local police and congressman who wants to get re elected and answerable to probably mainly white businesses and voters very scared of peaceful protets turning into days of rioting and looting and getting out of control.
Hence importing large numbers of robo cops to come down heavy from the start.
there was a lot of coverage of that incident as well at the time. and same with the person who was choked to death in NYC recently. I think the Ferguson case was escalated on the public radar because of how the protestors and reporters were treated by the local cops before the state police took over the town The TV presenter in the clip above. I doubt lives in a black neighbourhood and looks to be promoting himself by treating viewers as idiots.
When something happens like Ferguson and demonstrators there are always police shills who try to start troble posing as rioters.
Also the local police and congressman who wants to get re elected and answerable to probably mainly white businesses and voters very scared of peaceful protets turning into days of rioting and looting and getting out of control.
Hence importing large numbers of robo cops to come down heavy from the start.
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Another unarmed black teen killed by the police, by bullysonzx10r on Aug 18, 2014 19:07:45 GMT 1, there was a lot of coverage of that incident as well at the time. and same with the person who was choked to death in NYC recently. I think the Ferguson case was escalated on the public radar because of how the protestors and reporters were treated by the local cops before the state police took over the town
there was a lot of coverage of that incident as well at the time. and same with the person who was choked to death in NYC recently. I think the Ferguson case was escalated on the public radar because of how the protestors and reporters were treated by the local cops before the state police took over the town I think you hit it on the head -- The cops got all the military gear out and rather than protecting the peace, pretty much forced the disruption. Regardless of the initial incident, the damage control was horrendous. |
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opalis141
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 182
๐๐ป 113
April 2014
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Another unarmed black teen killed by the police, by opalis141 on Aug 18, 2014 19:11:07 GMT 1, Not putting any blame on Brown or saying he did anything to justify being shot as only the witness who was there and the police officer and any other witnesses really know what happened. So hope they either have some footage from the police car or other info that is true that can be made public. but a lot of eighteen year olds think they are indestructible and a lot of people these days have no respect for the police. Also prisons and hospitals etc are full of people who did not behave rationally. Lots of videos on liveleak talking about what happened
Not putting any blame on Brown or saying he did anything to justify being shot as only the witness who was there and the police officer and any other witnesses really know what happened. So hope they either have some footage from the police car or other info that is true that can be made public. but a lot of eighteen year olds think they are indestructible and a lot of people these days have no respect for the police. Also prisons and hospitals etc are full of people who did not behave rationally. Lots of videos on liveleak talking about what happened At least in the United States prisons are generally full of low-level offenders who act very rationally (which is not to say legally), given their specific economic, social and educational situation. |
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opalis141
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 182
๐๐ป 113
April 2014
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Another unarmed black teen killed by the police, by opalis141 on Aug 18, 2014 19:16:11 GMT 1, Everything is not so black and white. (No pun intended) I have no love for the police but the title of this thread is stupid. 105 police officers were killed in the line of duty in America last year. This year 64 so far and 27 of those were shot. These don't even count those wounded.
Everything is not so black and white. (No pun intended) I have no love for the police but the title of this thread is stupid. 105 police officers were killed in the line of duty in America last year. This year 64 so far and 27 of those were shot. These don't even count those wounded. Just wanted to point out that this figure is relatively small compared to the estimated yearly figures for civilians killed by police fire. Unfortunately, there aren't great statistics to pull from for this as there is no federally compiled national list of civilians killed by police--the figures that do exist are often compiled by academics, lawyers, activists etc by merging local data; which is why unlike the national numbers for police killed per year the number for civilians killed by police are not quoted/cited that often. |
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
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January 1970
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Another unarmed black teen killed by the police, by Deleted on Aug 18, 2014 19:16:22 GMT 1, In my opinion, anyone who thinks an 18yr old kid, who had already been shot, would run away, turn back around and charge at an armed policeman, is an ignorant fox news brainwashed crackhead racist with a serious lack of empathy. But that's just my opinion really. peace Just to cut down on confusion. The autopsy that the family had performed indicated that the bullets all entered from the front. So he had not been shot when he turned around and charged the officer. Again, I don't think murdering a civilian is correct, I'm just trying to make sure the tiny amount of facts that are available are not lost.
In my opinion, anyone who thinks an 18yr old kid, who had already been shot, would run away, turn back around and charge at an armed policeman, is an ignorant fox news brainwashed crackhead racist with a serious lack of empathy. But that's just my opinion really. peace Just to cut down on confusion. The autopsy that the family had performed indicated that the bullets all entered from the front. So he had not been shot when he turned around and charged the officer. Again, I don't think murdering a civilian is correct, I'm just trying to make sure the tiny amount of facts that are available are not lost. Just to be clear, eye witness statements say the first shot came from the police truck as the officer tried to aggressively pull him into the car by his throat having reversed into him for jaywalking, trying to pull away, the officer shouted, stay still or I'm going to fucking shoot you, and then seconds later did. Having been shot (from the front), the innocent (of anything but jaywalking) non suspect pulled away and tried to run. The officer got out of the car and pursued, the other kid in fear of his life hid behind a car. With nowhere to go, the non suspect of any crime, already shot, turned, put his arms up and started to get down whilst saying " don't shoot I don't have a gun", pumped up on adrenaline, machismo and racism and still charging forward, the police officer unleashed a barrage of bullets. The second non suspect fled for his life and later told this eye witness story to camera. End of story. |
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South Bound
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,483
๐๐ป 1,125
May 2014
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Another unarmed black teen killed by the police, by South Bound on Aug 18, 2014 19:24:55 GMT 1, Everything is not so black and white. (No pun intended) I have no love for the police but the title of this thread is stupid. 105 police officers were killed in the line of duty in America last year. This year 64 so far and 27 of those were shot. These don't even count those wounded. Just wanted to point out that this figure is relatively small compared to the estimated yearly figures for civilians killed by police fire. Unfortunately, there aren't great statistics to pull from for this as there is no federally compiled national list of civilians killed by police--the figures that do exist are often compiled by academics, lawyers, activists etc by merging local data; which is why unlike the national numbers for police killed per year the number for civilians killed by police are not quoted/cited that often. ย
Don't forget those that were killed by negligent and / or incompetent behavior of the police... That are not accounted for.
Everything is not so black and white. (No pun intended) I have no love for the police but the title of this thread is stupid. 105 police officers were killed in the line of duty in America last year. This year 64 so far and 27 of those were shot. These don't even count those wounded. Just wanted to point out that this figure is relatively small compared to the estimated yearly figures for civilians killed by police fire. Unfortunately, there aren't great statistics to pull from for this as there is no federally compiled national list of civilians killed by police--the figures that do exist are often compiled by academics, lawyers, activists etc by merging local data; which is why unlike the national numbers for police killed per year the number for civilians killed by police are not quoted/cited that often. ย Don't forget those that were killed by negligent and / or incompetent behavior of the police... That are not accounted for. |
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Another unarmed black teen killed by the police, by bullysonzx10r on Aug 18, 2014 19:33:05 GMT 1, Just to cut down on confusion. The autopsy that the family had performed indicated that the bullets all entered from the front. So he had not been shot when he turned around and charged the officer. Again, I don't think murdering a civilian is correct, I'm just trying to make sure the tiny amount of facts that are available are not lost. Just to be clear, eye witness statements say the first shot came from the police truck as the officer tried to aggressively pull him into the car by his throat having reversed into him for jaywalking, trying to pull away, the officer shouted, stay still or I'm going to f**king shoot you, and then seconds later did. Having been shot (from the front), the innocent (of anything but jaywalking) non suspect pulled away and tried to run. The officer got out of the car and pursued, the other kid in fear of his life hid behind a car. With nowhere to go, the non suspect of any crime, already shot, turned, put his arms up and started to get down whilst saying " don't shoot I don't have a gun", pumped up on adrenaline, machismo and racism and still charging forward, the police officer unleashed a barrage of bullets. The second non suspect fled for his life and later told this eye witness story to camera. End of story.
While the story you just typed definitely sounds like the story from the witness who was previously with the victim while they committed felony strong arm robbery, there is a clip that has surfaced recently: clashdaily.com/2014/08/new-evidence-eye-witness-mike-brown-shooting-states-brown-doubled-back-toward-police/
From another witness who had no connection to the victim. This witness definitely tells another story, but perhaps he didn't see the incident in its entirety.
There is that old saying -- there are always 3 versions of what happened. What I saw, what you saw, and what actually took place.
Regardless of where you fall on the blame spectrum, the entire incident is a travesty. Sure, this victim should be in jail for the crime of Robbery, but he shouldn't be dead.
Just to cut down on confusion. The autopsy that the family had performed indicated that the bullets all entered from the front. So he had not been shot when he turned around and charged the officer. Again, I don't think murdering a civilian is correct, I'm just trying to make sure the tiny amount of facts that are available are not lost. Just to be clear, eye witness statements say the first shot came from the police truck as the officer tried to aggressively pull him into the car by his throat having reversed into him for jaywalking, trying to pull away, the officer shouted, stay still or I'm going to f**king shoot you, and then seconds later did. Having been shot (from the front), the innocent (of anything but jaywalking) non suspect pulled away and tried to run. The officer got out of the car and pursued, the other kid in fear of his life hid behind a car. With nowhere to go, the non suspect of any crime, already shot, turned, put his arms up and started to get down whilst saying " don't shoot I don't have a gun", pumped up on adrenaline, machismo and racism and still charging forward, the police officer unleashed a barrage of bullets. The second non suspect fled for his life and later told this eye witness story to camera. End of story. Sounds like you've got a strong grip on what happened. I definitely don't. I wasn't there, and have only heard what is available. While the story you just typed definitely sounds like the story from the witness who was previously with the victim while they committed felony strong arm robbery, there is a clip that has surfaced recently: clashdaily.com/2014/08/new-evidence-eye-witness-mike-brown-shooting-states-brown-doubled-back-toward-police/ From another witness who had no connection to the victim. This witness definitely tells another story, but perhaps he didn't see the incident in its entirety. There is that old saying -- there are always 3 versions of what happened. What I saw, what you saw, and what actually took place. Regardless of where you fall on the blame spectrum, the entire incident is a travesty. Sure, this victim should be in jail for the crime of Robbery, but he shouldn't be dead. |
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cornholio
New Member
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February 2011
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Another unarmed black teen killed by the police, by cornholio on Aug 18, 2014 19:33:12 GMT 1, Would love to know how an unarmed kid is living by the sword?
This "kid" in matter of 15 minutes one afternoon engaged in robbery, assault and then (allegedly) went after a cop. There's also allegations that he was affiliated with gangs. So my point is he could have lived a different life, he could have chosen not go rob a store and assault someone, he could have chose to walk down the sidewalk instead of the middle of the street, he could have chosen to not attack the officer. I know I know he lived in a depressed city and had it tough and on paper that doesn't deserve death but when you engage in a life like that then s##t happens and I'm really not surprised.
Would love to know how an unarmed kid is living by the sword? This "kid" in matter of 15 minutes one afternoon engaged in robbery, assault and then (allegedly) went after a cop. There's also allegations that he was affiliated with gangs. So my point is he could have lived a different life, he could have chosen not go rob a store and assault someone, he could have chose to walk down the sidewalk instead of the middle of the street, he could have chosen to not attack the officer. I know I know he lived in a depressed city and had it tough and on paper that doesn't deserve death but when you engage in a life like that then s##t happens and I'm really not surprised. |
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Deleted
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Another unarmed black teen killed by the police, by Deleted on Aug 18, 2014 19:36:33 GMT 1, Not putting any blame on Brown or saying he did anything to justify being shot as only the witness who was there and the police officer and any other witnesses really know what happened. So hope they either have some footage from the police car or other info that is true that can be made public. but a lot of eighteen year olds think they are indestructible and a lot of people these days have no respect for the police. Also prisons and hospitals etc are full of people who did not behave rationally. Lots of videos on liveleak talking about what happened At least in the United States prisons are generally full of low-level offenders who act very rationally (which is not to say legally), given their specific economic, social and educational situation. There are far too many people in prison in the USA who shouldn't be.
The US prison system is a business and they make money by having more people locked up.
I don't know if any US governors or politicians also make money from this type of prison system?
Not putting any blame on Brown or saying he did anything to justify being shot as only the witness who was there and the police officer and any other witnesses really know what happened. So hope they either have some footage from the police car or other info that is true that can be made public. but a lot of eighteen year olds think they are indestructible and a lot of people these days have no respect for the police. Also prisons and hospitals etc are full of people who did not behave rationally. Lots of videos on liveleak talking about what happened At least in the United States prisons are generally full of low-level offenders who act very rationally (which is not to say legally), given their specific economic, social and educational situation. There are far too many people in prison in the USA who shouldn't be.
The US prison system is a business and they make money by having more people locked up.
I don't know if any US governors or politicians also make money from this type of prison system?
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South Bound
Junior Member
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May 2014
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Another unarmed black teen killed by the police, by South Bound on Aug 18, 2014 19:44:09 GMT 1, Would love to know how an unarmed kid is living by the sword? This "kid" in matter of 15 minutes one afternoon engaged in robbery, assault and then (allegedly) went after a cop. There's also allegations that he was affiliated with gangs. So my point is he could have lived a different life, he could have chosen not go rob a store and assault someone, he could have chose to walk down the sidewalk instead of the middle of the street, he could have chosen to not attack the officer. I know I know he lived in a depressed city and had it tough and on paper that doesn't deserve death but when you engage in a life like that then s##t happens and I'm really not surprised.
You did not mention that he was unarmed when he robbed the store of a box of cigars and the majority of you allegations use the word "Allegedly".
You can attach anything to anyone using the term allegedly.
"Allegedly" George W. Bush is really Banksy. Come on now.
Once again, How was he living by the sword?
Would love to know how an unarmed kid is living by the sword? This "kid" in matter of 15 minutes one afternoon engaged in robbery, assault and then (allegedly) went after a cop. There's also allegations that he was affiliated with gangs. So my point is he could have lived a different life, he could have chosen not go rob a store and assault someone, he could have chose to walk down the sidewalk instead of the middle of the street, he could have chosen to not attack the officer. I know I know he lived in a depressed city and had it tough and on paper that doesn't deserve death but when you engage in a life like that then s##t happens and I'm really not surprised. You did not mention that he was unarmed when he robbed the store of a box of cigars and the majority of you allegations use the word "Allegedly". You can attach anything to anyone using the term allegedly. "Allegedly" George W. Bush is really Banksy. Come on now. Once again, How was he living by the sword? |
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opalis141
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April 2014
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Another unarmed black teen killed by the police, by opalis141 on Aug 18, 2014 19:46:01 GMT 1, At least in the United States prisons are generally full of low-level offenders who act very rationally (which is not to say legally), given their specific economic, social and educational situation. There are far too many people in prison in the USA who shouldn't be.
The US prison system is a business and they make money by having more people locked up.
I don't know if any US governors or politicians also make money from this type of prison system?
At least in the United States prisons are generally full of low-level offenders who act very rationally (which is not to say legally), given their specific economic, social and educational situation. There are far too many people in prison in the USA who shouldn't be.
The US prison system is a business and they make money by having more people locked up.
I don't know if any US governors or politicians also make money from this type of prison system?
In the period from 2000 to 2011 the three largest private prison companies in the US--CCA, GEO and Cornell Companies had contributed $835,514 to federal level gov. officials--primarily senators and members of the House of Representatives. Giving to state level politicians during the last five election cycles (working from 2011 backwards) was $6,092,331. (according to the center for responsive politics and the National Institute on Money in State Politics) |
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Dr Plip
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Another unarmed black teen killed by the police, by Dr Plip on Aug 18, 2014 19:51:18 GMT 1, At least in the United States prisons are generally full of low-level offenders who act very rationally (which is not to say legally), given their specific economic, social and educational situation. There are far too many people in prison in the USA who shouldn't be.
The US prison system is a business and they make money by having more people locked up.
I don't know if any US governors or politicians also make money from this type of prison system?
At least in the United States prisons are generally full of low-level offenders who act very rationally (which is not to say legally), given their specific economic, social and educational situation. There are far too many people in prison in the USA who shouldn't be.
The US prison system is a business and they make money by having more people locked up.
I don't know if any US governors or politicians also make money from this type of prison system?
Cheap labour that they can use to make products for government agencies, as well as the military. |
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
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January 1970
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Another unarmed black teen killed by the police, by Deleted on Aug 18, 2014 19:57:32 GMT 1, Would love to know how an unarmed kid is living by the sword? This "kid" in matter of 15 minutes one afternoon engaged in robbery, assault and then (allegedly) went after a cop. There's also allegations that he was affiliated with gangs. So my point is he could have lived a different life, he could have chosen not go rob a store and assault someone, he could have chose to walk down the sidewalk instead of the middle of the street, he could have chosen to not attack the officer. I know I know he lived in a depressed city and had it tough and on paper that doesn't deserve death but when you engage in a life like that then s##t happens and I'm really not surprised.
Would love to know how an unarmed kid is living by the sword? This "kid" in matter of 15 minutes one afternoon engaged in robbery, assault and then (allegedly) went after a cop. There's also allegations that he was affiliated with gangs. So my point is he could have lived a different life, he could have chosen not go rob a store and assault someone, he could have chose to walk down the sidewalk instead of the middle of the street, he could have chosen to not attack the officer. I know I know he lived in a depressed city and had it tough and on paper that doesn't deserve death but when you engage in a life like that then s##t happens and I'm really not surprised. this kid wasn't a saint. and you're right - he lived a life, for probably many reasons, that unfortunately might have put him in bad situations. but we have to trust that police are around to protect us, and it's hard to do that when they're firing at unarmed civilians. Using a gun should be a last resort and I don't think that was the case here. Maybe (probably) the cop was scared and made a bad decision. But that decision ended a life. I don't know police strategy obviously, but maybe if the cop thought his life was in danger, he could have retreated rather than reach for his gun? |
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cornholio
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 300
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February 2011
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Another unarmed black teen killed by the police, by cornholio on Aug 18, 2014 20:11:11 GMT 1, This "kid" in matter of 15 minutes one afternoon engaged in robbery, assault and then (allegedly) went after a cop. There's also allegations that he was affiliated with gangs. So my point is he could have lived a different life, he could have chosen not go rob a store and assault someone, he could have chose to walk down the sidewalk instead of the middle of the street, he could have chosen to not attack the officer. I know I know he lived in a depressed city and had it tough and on paper that doesn't deserve death but when you engage in a life like that then s##t happens and I'm really not surprised. You did not mention that he was unarmed when he robbed the store of a box of cigars and the majority of you allegations use the word "Allegedly". You can attach anything to anyone using the term allegedly. "Allegedly" George W. Bush is really Banksy. Come on now. Once again, How was he living by the sword?
You're just trying to be argumentative. I say alleged because even I am willing to consider other theories about what happened if new facts come out but despite really not being a fan of the police I find it hard to believe this cop just decided to randomly shoot someone for jaywalking and that it's all a big coincidence that the someone he decided to kill was some "kid" that just robbed a store and assaulted someone 5 minutes earlier. But whatever happened one fact is pretty clear - Brown could have made a lot of other decisions that day that would have wound up with him still being alive. But he didn't, he chose to live and engage in a lifestyle where s##t like this happens. The end.
I understand they're angry and feel jilted in Ferguson and this was a tipping point for them to vent their frustration. It's just a shame that their martyr is this guy.
This "kid" in matter of 15 minutes one afternoon engaged in robbery, assault and then (allegedly) went after a cop. There's also allegations that he was affiliated with gangs. So my point is he could have lived a different life, he could have chosen not go rob a store and assault someone, he could have chose to walk down the sidewalk instead of the middle of the street, he could have chosen to not attack the officer. I know I know he lived in a depressed city and had it tough and on paper that doesn't deserve death but when you engage in a life like that then s##t happens and I'm really not surprised. You did not mention that he was unarmed when he robbed the store of a box of cigars and the majority of you allegations use the word "Allegedly". You can attach anything to anyone using the term allegedly. "Allegedly" George W. Bush is really Banksy. Come on now. Once again, How was he living by the sword? You're just trying to be argumentative. I say alleged because even I am willing to consider other theories about what happened if new facts come out but despite really not being a fan of the police I find it hard to believe this cop just decided to randomly shoot someone for jaywalking and that it's all a big coincidence that the someone he decided to kill was some "kid" that just robbed a store and assaulted someone 5 minutes earlier. But whatever happened one fact is pretty clear - Brown could have made a lot of other decisions that day that would have wound up with him still being alive. But he didn't, he chose to live and engage in a lifestyle where s##t like this happens. The end. I understand they're angry and feel jilted in Ferguson and this was a tipping point for them to vent their frustration. It's just a shame that their martyr is this guy. |
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South Bound
Junior Member
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May 2014
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Another unarmed black teen killed by the police, by South Bound on Aug 18, 2014 20:30:37 GMT 1, You did not mention that he was unarmed when he robbed the store of a box of cigars and the majority of you allegations use the word "Allegedly". You can attach anything to anyone using the term allegedly. "Allegedly" George W. Bush is really Banksy. Come on now. Once again, How was he living by the sword? You're just trying to be argumentative. I say alleged because even I am willing to consider otherย theories about what happened if new facts come out but despite really not being a fan of the police I find it hard to believe this cop just decided to randomly shoot someone for jaywalking and that it's all a big coincidence that the someone he decided to kill was some "kid" that just robbed a store and assaulted someone 5 minutes earlier. But whatever happened one fact is pretty clear - Brown could have made a lot of other decisions that day that would have wound up with him still being alive. But he didn't, he chose to live and engage in a lifestyle where s##t like this happens. The end. I understand they're angry and feel jilted in Ferguson and this was a tipping point for them to vent their frustration. It's just a shame that their martyr is this guy.
No more argumentative then using term allegedly to ascribe activities that would help validate his shooting..
You did not mention that he was unarmed when he robbed the store of a box of cigars and the majority of you allegations use the word "Allegedly". You can attach anything to anyone using the term allegedly. "Allegedly" George W. Bush is really Banksy. Come on now. Once again, How was he living by the sword? You're just trying to be argumentative. I say alleged because even I am willing to consider otherย theories about what happened if new facts come out but despite really not being a fan of the police I find it hard to believe this cop just decided to randomly shoot someone for jaywalking and that it's all a big coincidence that the someone he decided to kill was some "kid" that just robbed a store and assaulted someone 5 minutes earlier. But whatever happened one fact is pretty clear - Brown could have made a lot of other decisions that day that would have wound up with him still being alive. But he didn't, he chose to live and engage in a lifestyle where s##t like this happens. The end. I understand they're angry and feel jilted in Ferguson and this was a tipping point for them to vent their frustration. It's just a shame that their martyr is this guy. No more argumentative then using term allegedly to ascribe activities that would help validate his shooting.. |
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DREAMERS
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July 2013
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Another unarmed black teen killed by the police, by DREAMERS on Aug 18, 2014 20:58:47 GMT 1, I don't understand why this unarmed teen history is up for question.. The fact of this whole situation is the cop will have explain why he shot an unarmed man and he will have to justify each bullet.
Period.
I don't understand why this unarmed teen history is up for question.. The fact of this whole situation is the cop will have explain why he shot an unarmed man and he will have to justify each bullet.
Period.
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