met
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June 2009
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Real Hackney Dave , by met on Apr 25, 2023 15:15:11 GMT 1, Real Hackney Dave Essex map framed by mr frameman .ยฃ500 delivered within M25 or pick up JD Balancing artworks on light switches is the best life hack I've seen this year... cheers! glwts!
Cleverly done. This almost seems like witchcraft.
But it's actually just down to physics, combined with the element of illusion.
ELUCIDATION
A. View this setup as a lever mechanism:
(i) the top-centre of the light switch acts as the tip of the fulcrum; and
(ii) the framed artwork serves as the beam, and also as the two masses on either side of the fulcrum.
B. Based on the frame's current placement on the light switch, determine where the tip of the fulcrum lies, distance-wise or proportionally, in relation to the entire length of the frame/beam.
Looks to me like it's at the frame length's 1/10 mark. In other words:
(i) 1/10 of the frame's length (distance 1, or D1) and weight (mass 1, or M1) is on the left side of the fulcrum; and
(ii) 9/10 of the frame's length (distance 2, or D2) and weight (mass 2, or M2) are on the right side of the fulcrum.
C. For the purpose of this explanation, let's assume the entire frame would normally weigh 2 kg.
The side to the left of the fulcrum would then weigh 200g (M1, being 1/10 of 2 kg) and the right side would weigh 1.8 kg (M2, being 9/10 of 2 kg).
D. However, it would be physically impossible for all of the weight measurements in point C above to be correct โ because the lever (i.e. the framed artwork resting on the light switch) is currently balanced.
A balanced lever has the following relationship:
M1 x D1 = M2 x D2
Consider first the right side of the fulcrum: M2 (1.8 kg) x D2 (9) = 16.2
Given the lever is balanced, the left side of the fulcrum and equation must also be equal to 16.2.
And if we know for certain that D1 = 1, then M1 must somehow weigh 16.2 kg.
Now, 200g (1/10 of 2 kg) of M1 has already been accounted for. But not the mysterious, additional 16 kg.
So how can this possibly be?
It is hurting the brain; my rational mind is simultaneously expanding and collapsing.
E. ANSWER
To allow a frame normally weighing 2 kg to balance in its current position on top of the light switch, JD must have secretly hidden around 16 kg of lead weights inside that frame at the bottom-left corner.
Mystery solved.
Yay to science, clear thinking and problem-solving skills.
Next, I'll explain why the moon landings could never have happened.
Real Hackney Dave Essex map framed by mr frameman .ยฃ500 delivered within M25 or pick up JD Balancing artworks on light switches is the best life hack I've seen this year... cheers! glwts! Cleverly done. This almost seems like witchcraft. But it's actually just down to physics, combined with the element of illusion. ELUCIDATIONA. View this setup as a lever mechanism: (i) the top-centre of the light switch acts as the tip of the fulcrum; and (ii) the framed artwork serves as the beam, and also as the two masses on either side of the fulcrum. B. Based on the frame's current placement on the light switch, determine where the tip of the fulcrum lies, distance-wise or proportionally, in relation to the entire length of the frame/beam. Looks to me like it's at the frame length's 1/10 mark. In other words: (i) 1/10 of the frame's length (distance 1, or D1) and weight (mass 1, or M1) is on the left side of the fulcrum; and (ii) 9/10 of the frame's length (distance 2, or D2) and weight (mass 2, or M2) are on the right side of the fulcrum. C. For the purpose of this explanation, let's assume the entire frame would normally weigh 2 kg. The side to the left of the fulcrum would then weigh 200g (M1, being 1/10 of 2 kg) and the right side would weigh 1.8 kg (M2, being 9/10 of 2 kg). D. However, it would be physically impossible for all of the weight measurements in point C above to be correct โ because the lever (i.e. the framed artwork resting on the light switch) is currently balanced. A balanced lever has the following relationship: M1 x D1 = M2 x D2Consider first the right side of the fulcrum: M2 (1.8 kg) x D2 (9) = 16.2 Given the lever is balanced, the left side of the fulcrum and equation must also be equal to 16.2. And if we know for certain that D1 = 1, then M1 must somehow weigh 16.2 kg. Now, 200g (1/10 of 2 kg) of M1 has already been accounted for. But not the mysterious, additional 16 kg. So how can this possibly be?It is hurting the brain; my rational mind is simultaneously expanding and collapsing. E. ANSWERTo allow a frame normally weighing 2 kg to balance in its current position on top of the light switch, JD must have secretly hidden around 16 kg of lead weights inside that frame at the bottom-left corner. Mystery solved. Yay to science, clear thinking and problem-solving skills. Next, I'll explain why the moon landings could never have happened.
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met
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June 2009
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Banksy โข Monkey Parliament Poster, by met on Apr 23, 2023 20:41:58 GMT 1, I bought one for quite a while ago that i found when cleaning out my things...I think is not the real deal...but... It might be..Is there any way to identify it ... on the sheet / size / marks on the back of it etc ?
Without wishing to disclose details that could help fraudsters produce better-quality fakes, many of the counterfeit Monkey Parliament posters in circulation are rather easy to spot.
Take some photos of yours in good natural light, both context and close-up shots, head-on and in raking light, front of the poster and back โ and then post the images on this thread along with the dimensions of the poster.
If it is one of the more obvious fakes, you'll be informed soon enough by your fellow members.
__________
GENERAL COMMENTS
There have been plenty of sales and attempted sales of counterfeit art and ephemera on this forum, by sellers who:
(i) are clueless;
(ii) are knowingly selling fakes; or
(iii) have good reason to suspect they may be selling fakes, but can disingenuously claim they aren't 100% certain (mental gymastics thus allowing them to convince themselves that, notwithstanding their niggling suspicions, they're still acting in good faith, rather than like the scumbags they truly are).
The scammer fraternity can be loosely divided into two groups:
1. A handfull of scammers are of course committed and hardcore; their intention from the very outset is to defraud other people.
2. The oft-overlooked majority, however, will be softcore.
Here we have both private individuals and professionals (dealers, gallerists, auction house representatives) whose transactions are, for the most part, above board.
But every so often, opportunities arise for financially-advantageous acts of dishonesty, negligence and/or recklessness โ where the risk of getting caught out and being held to account is also minimal, or at least worth taking for anyone who lacks integrity.
This might be the case, for example, with one of the countless, unscrupulous auction houses whose directors/specialists sometimes choose to look the other way and accept a regular consignor's authenticity assurances at face value, instead of carrying out suitable levels of due diligence on each of the consigned items.
It may also be the case with a shady private collector who initially thinks they've secured a bargain and, after later realising they've been sold a fake, quickly offloads it onto another unsuspecting buyer.
These are the opportunist, intermittent scammers.
And since most of their dealings are genuine, some will presumably delude themselves into thinking they're actually good, decent people โ despite being happy to defraud others if they think they can get away with it.
My advice is to be especially careful with anyone here who refers to themselves as a "respected member" or "trusted member".
I bought one for quite a while ago that i found when cleaning out my things...I think is not the real deal...but... It might be..Is there any way to identify it ... on the sheet / size / marks on the back of it etc ? Without wishing to disclose details that could help fraudsters produce better-quality fakes, many of the counterfeit Monkey Parliament posters in circulation are rather easy to spot. Take some photos of yours in good natural light, both context and close-up shots, head-on and in raking light, front of the poster and back โ and then post the images on this thread along with the dimensions of the poster. If it is one of the more obvious fakes, you'll be informed soon enough by your fellow members. __________ GENERAL COMMENTSThere have been plenty of sales and attempted sales of counterfeit art and ephemera on this forum, by sellers who: (i) are clueless; (ii) are knowingly selling fakes; or (iii) have good reason to suspect they may be selling fakes, but can disingenuously claim they aren't 100% certain (mental gymastics thus allowing them to convince themselves that, notwithstanding their niggling suspicions, they're still acting in good faith, rather than like the scumbags they truly are). The scammer fraternity can be loosely divided into two groups:1. A handfull of scammers are of course committed and hardcore; their intention from the very outset is to defraud other people. 2. The oft-overlooked majority, however, will be softcore. Here we have both private individuals and professionals (dealers, gallerists, auction house representatives) whose transactions are, for the most part, above board. But every so often, opportunities arise for financially-advantageous acts of dishonesty, negligence and/or recklessness โ where the risk of getting caught out and being held to account is also minimal, or at least worth taking for anyone who lacks integrity. This might be the case, for example, with one of the countless, unscrupulous auction houses whose directors/specialists sometimes choose to look the other way and accept a regular consignor's authenticity assurances at fa ce value, instead of carrying out suitable levels of due diligence on each of the consigned items. It may also be the case with a shady private collector who initially thinks they've secured a bargain and, after later realising they've been sold a fake, quickly offloads it onto another unsuspecting buyer. These are the opportunist, intermittent scammers. And since most of their dealings are genuine, some will presumably delude themselves into thinking they're actually good, decent people โ despite being happy to defraud others if they think they can get away with it. My advice is to be especially careful with anyone here who refers to themselves as a "respected member" or "trusted member".
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met
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June 2009
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Are fineartshippers good?, by met on Apr 23, 2023 17:04:32 GMT 1, Trying to find a fine art handler for a large painting in Atlanta going to Canada, received a quote from fineartshippers.com, are they good/reliable? any other companies I should look into?
The post in the link below may give you some ideas, including things to be aware of, or wary of:
urbanartassociation.com/post/2206848/thread
If I were looking to arrange the shipping of art โ as opposed to leaving my contractual counterparty to deal with it, along with the potential liability if anything goes wrong during transit โ my initial step would be to identify a handful of art professionals (museums, high-end galleries, and auction houses dealing in fine art and antiques) located in the same city as the source address for the art.
Next, I would reach out to those institutions by telephone and ask them whose services they themselves recommend for long-haul shipments. And perhaps also whose services they specifically avoid.
As a simple rule of thumb, make the most of local knowledge and experience, by using it to your advantage.
Trying to find a fine art handler for a large painting in Atlanta going to Canada, received a quote from fineartshippers.com, are they good/reliable? any other companies I should look into? The post in the link below may give you some ideas, including things to be aware of, or wary of: urbanartassociation.com/post/2206848/threadIf I were looking to arrange the shipping of art โ as opposed to leaving my contractual counterparty to deal with it, along with the potential liability if anything goes wrong during transit โ my initial step would be to identify a handful of art professionals (museums, high-end galleries, and auction houses dealing in fine art and antiques) located in the same city as the source address for the art. Next, I would reach out to those institutions by telephone and ask them whose services they themselves recommend for long-haul shipments. And perhaps also whose services they specifically avoid. As a simple rule of thumb, make the most of local knowledge and experience, by using it to your advantage.
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met
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June 2009
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Dran - help identifying , by met on Apr 23, 2023 13:53:53 GMT 1, Anyone know more about this one? I canโt find any info on it. Edition of 77, thick paper which the background looks to be hand finished
Sure itโs an edition? Looks more like an OG to me.
As indicated by guru59, this appears to be hand-finished, which is relatively common with Dran.
Each of the hand-painted multiples would then be a one-of-kind, unique piece as well as editioned. Collectively, these are also referred to as "varied editions".
Hmmm. Any markers to indicate print maker or other? What is the text around the signature?Donโt have my phone with my Dran archive on it, will check when I get home. Has a Tiens era feel to it. Others may know. Hard to make outโฆ. โSQUAREโ โXXRCHESโ I think itโs the paper brand, Arches Aquarell.
Correct.
Arches is the brand.
Aquarelle is one of the different paper ranges within the brand. It is especially suited for water-based painting techniques like watercolour and gouache.
Hi. This was from the last Paris show. November 2019. Made me realise weโre well overdue another show. I know he released those prints over time, and I have record of 5 or them. But not this one (or any word of an edition of 77). Do you know what the name was? Also what I'm after. I was never aware of this release and was surprised to snatch it in one of the "mystery" tubes a few years back.
Assuming the piece actually has a name (as opposed to just being referred to as Untitled), then, if anyone would know the name, it would be Dran himself and perhaps Huguette.
I would suggest reaching out to the latter and just asking her.
Tiny poubelle will know better than us. But there were higher prices mystery buys with originals in them if I remember correctly? Is this definitely numbered from 77?Unfortunately yes ๐ Hmmm. That could be an โ11โโฆanother print from that show (โPierrotโ) was an edition of 11. But this ainโt that.
I do think that that could be 11. The Francais way to write a 7 is with a cross through the vertical barDo you think he will be a merman or a fish or a dinosaur or a lizard?? What is the boy drawing at the moment of 'capture'? Is it a fin??How I love Dran's mind
Indeed, this would be an edition of 11, not 77.
Congratulations, guru59. Your artwork is suddenly much rarer than you initially thought.
Example below of a separate hand-painted multiple by Dran, Cher Pรจre Noรซl*, edition number 77/100:
[By way of aside, even by French standards, Dran's handwriting style for the number 1 is a bit confusing โ because the angle he creates by the two lines is around 70 or 80 degrees.
This is a larger angle than the average French-style number 1, which is typically closer to about 30 or 45 degrees.]
I believe the boy in his swimming trunks has drawn scales on himself, to be able to swim faster โ like a fish.
It looks like he is also in the process of drawing a small fin on his arm.
Anyone know more about this one? I canโt find any info on it. Edition of 77, thick paper which the background looks to be hand finished Sure itโs an edition? Looks more like an OG to me. As indicated by guru59, this appears to be hand-finished, which is relatively common with Dr an. Each of the hand-painted multiples would then be a one-of-kind, unique piece as well as editioned. Collectively, these are also referred to as "varied editions". Hmmm. Any markers to indicate print maker or other? What is the text around the signature?Donโt have my phone with my Dran archive on it, will check when I get home. Has a Tiens era feel to it. Others may know. Hard to make outโฆ. โSQUAREโ โXXRCHESโ I think itโs the paper brand, Arches Aquarell.Correct. Arches is the brand. Aquarelle is one of the different paper ranges within the brand. It is especially suited for water-based painting techniques like watercolour and gouache. Hi. This was from the last Paris show. November 2019. Made me realise weโre well overdue another show. I know he released those prints over time, and I have record of 5 or them. But not this one (or any word of an edition of 77). Do you know what the name was? Also what I'm after. I was never aware of this release and was surprised to snatch it in one of the "mystery" tubes a few years back. Assuming the piece actually has a name (as opposed to just being referred to as Untitled), then, if anyone would know the name, it would be Dran himself and perhaps Huguette. I would suggest reaching out to the latter and just asking her. Tiny poubelle will know better than us. But there were higher prices mystery buys with originals in them if I remember correctly? Is this definitely numbered from 77?Unfortunately yes ๐ Hmmm. That could be an โ11โโฆanother print from that show (โPierrotโ) was an edition of 11. But this ainโt that. I do think that that could be 11. The Francais way to write a 7 is with a cross through the vertical barDo you think he will be a merman or a fish or a dinosaur or a lizard?? What is the boy drawing at the moment of 'capture'? Is it a fin??How I love Dran's mind Indeed, this would be an edition of 11, not 77. Congratulations, guru59. Your artwork is suddenly much rarer than you initially thought. Example below of a separate hand-painted multiple by Dr an, Cher Pรจre Noรซl*, edition number 77/100: [By way of aside, even by French standards, Dran's handwriting style for the number 1 is a bit confusing โ because the angle he creates by the two lines is around 70 or 80 degrees.
This is a larger angle than the average French-style number 1, which is typically closer to about 30 or 45 degrees.]I believe the boy in his swimming trunks has drawn scales on himself, to be able to swim faster โ like a fish. It looks like he is also in the process of drawing a small fin on his arm.
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met
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Damien Hirst - The Beautiful Paintings, by met on Apr 12, 2023 6:10:30 GMT 1, Hirst said the spin paintings were his least favorite series. Which is why he let his customers deal with the tedious design processClever man he is.
Heni have confirmed every single spin created will be catalogued and able to view online - similar to the Currency pieces. I imagine they will add attributes and if there is money to be made Hirst will release a book. Each spin will have a sticker on the back with further provence details too.
Although I find The Beautiful Paintings to be of little interest as works of art, I am curious about one aspect:
1. Artistic concept by Damien Hirst.
2. Configuration and variables-selection by the relevant collector, using a generative algorithm (created by Hirst and HENI) which, itself, incorporates elements of randomness.
3. The printed physical artwork handsigned by Hirst.
Under these circumstances, query who owns the copyright for each piece.
Is Hirst definitely the sole copyright owner, with the relevant collector perhaps taking on a status akin to that of a studio assistant?
Or could it instead be argued that the intellectual property would actually be shared with the collector?
The latter might then have a say about the publication and distribution of images of their piece. For example, whether they consent to the work being catalogued and posted on HENI's website. Or, at a possible future date, whether to release a giclรฉe print edition based on their original giclรฉe canvas.
Hirst said the spin paintings were his least favorite series. Which is why he let his customers deal with the tedious design processClever man he is. Heni have confirmed every single spin created will be catalogued and able to view online - similar to the Currency pieces. I imagine they will add attributes and if there is money to be made Hirst will release a book. Each spin will have a sticker on the back with further provence details too. Although I find The Beautiful Paintings to be of little interest as works of art, I am curious about one aspect: 1. Artistic concept by Damien Hi rst. 2. Configuration and variables-selection by the relevant collector, using a generative algorithm (created by Hi rst and HE NI) which, itself, incorporates elements of randomness. 3. The printed physical artwork handsigned by Hi rst. Under these circumstances, query who owns the copyright for each piece. Is Hi rst definitely the sole copyright owner, with the relevant collector perhaps taking on a status akin to that of a studio assistant? Or could it instead be argued that the intellectual property would actually be shared with the collector? The latter might then have a say about the publication and distribution of images of their piece. For example, whether they consent to the work being catalogued and posted on HE NI's website. Or, at a possible future date, whether to release a giclรฉe print edition based on their original giclรฉe canvas.
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met
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Anybody have any info on these 2 street artists?, by met on Apr 10, 2023 23:03:52 GMT 1, Is anybody able to share any info with me regarding who the street artists are who actually did these works? Names? Website? Instagram? Thank you! [...] [...] The creator of the second is unknown. Given the roughness of execution, it was probably done by an amateur, maybe as a one-off. Based on the style, presumably they are/were a fan of Ban ksy, whom the stencil piece is frequently misattributed to. According to Str eet Art Utopia *, which first posted images in February 2013, the painting is from somewhere in Germany. And the "Danke" text to the right would support that assertion. With the hearts is 100% the Artist: XOOOOX .The other is kids shit ๐ the big mag I don't know, sorry That would really surprise me if it were true. What is your 100% certainty based on? XOOOOX has a far sharper, cleaner style โ both in stencil-cutting and in spraying techniques. The themes that XOOOOX tends to focus on, along with the tone of his work, are also quite different to the lovesick vomiting girl.
DANKE is the German word for THX ... and the artwork is on a german wall, XooooX is a german too. Maybe I am wrong, but I am pretty sure.
Correct premises regarding language, location and nationality. But false inference drawn therefrom.
I just checked the book by XOOOOX and it's not featured inside. Plus the stencil is missing his signature XOOOOX tag, so I would agree with met that the piece is probably not by him...
A bit of minor housekeeping for this thread:
Since it would elicit a straightforward Yes or No reply, I reached out to XOOOOX in February and asked whether the vomiting girl was his.
The artist's response:
Hi [met],
Yes, you are right. That is not my work. I have seen it several times tagged as my work ://
All Best, XOOOOX
Sounds like one of the countless cases of mistaken attribution that are assumed to be true, perhaps in part simply because they've been posted on the internet.
These errors are then parroted by others, without due verification โ thereby further compounding the misinformation that is so prevalent online.
Is anybody able to share any info with me regarding who the street artists are who actually did these works? Names? Website? Instagram? Thank you! [...] [...] The creator of the second is unknown. Given the roughness of execution, it was probably done by an amateur, maybe as a one-off. Based on the style, presumably they are/were a fan of Ban ksy, whom the stencil piece is frequently misattributed to. According to Str eet Art Utopia *, which first posted images in February 2013, the painting is from somewhere in Germany. And the "Danke" text to the right would support that assertion. With the hearts is 100% the Artist: XOOOOX .The other is kids shit ๐ the big mag I don't know, sorry That would really surprise me if it were true. What is your 100% certainty based on? XOOOOX has a far sharper, cleaner style โ both in stencil-cutting and in spraying techniques. The themes that XOOOOX tends to focus on, along with the tone of his work, are also quite different to the lovesick vomiting girl. DANKE is the German word for THX ... and the artwork is on a german wall, XooooX is a german too. Maybe I am wrong, but I am pretty sure. Correct premises regarding language, location and nationality. But false inference drawn therefrom. I just checked the book by XOOOOX and it's not featured inside. Plus the stencil is missing his signature XOOOOX tag, so I would agree with met that the piece is probably not by him... A bit of minor housekeeping for this thread: Since it would elicit a straightforward Yes or No reply, I reached out to XOOOOX in February and asked whether the vomiting girl was his. The artist's response: Hi [met],
Yes, you are right. That is not my work. I have seen it several times tagged as my work ://
All Best, XOOOOXSounds like one of the countless cases of mistaken attribution that are assumed to be true, perhaps in part simply because they've been posted on the internet. These errors are then parroted by others, without due verification โ thereby further compounding the misinformation that is so prevalent online.
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met
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June 2009
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Heritage Auctions ๐บ๐ฒ, by met on Mar 28, 2023 18:40:42 GMT 1, Hi Met, Sure happy to respond. Heritage is the only auction house that is transparent with reserves. Which is why you're seeing the $300,000 now. We allow bidding online for two weeks prior to the live auction, if the reserve is not met one week prior to the sale then the reserve is posted. We don't allow Chandelier bidding (link) as the other auction houses do. Single Lane Ahead is the correct artwork and has a corresponding Pest Control COA. As I discussed above, conservation was performed between the Phillips sale and now. To reiterate, the work was done initially on a "found" street sign so there were small areas of dirt, grim, and oxidation (as seen in the Phillips listing), which could have caused rusting and further deterioration. Pest Control and Banksy authorized this conversation, and the work was re-authenticated post-conservation (as of 2016). I can't speak to the artist's mind on why, but some elements changed were done in this conservation process were (likely) necessary for longevity and keeping with Banksy's original intention. This work was featured in the 2011 MOCA show. I hope this helps!
Thank you for this.
May I ask who actually did the conservation work?
It would also be helpful to hear whether this was arranged by the consignor.
Or, alternatively, if Pest Control Office took over the process from the outset and arranged the conservation work itself.
__________
Once again, the outstanding issue is that, contrary to what you are claiming, the piece Heritage Auctions is selling is not the same same piece that was exhibited at MOCA in 2011 and later consigned to Phillips de Pury.
Can you not see this?
Just look at the high-res image of the street sign from Phillips de Pury*, and compare it with your own images*.
To all interested members, please do not take my word for it; I am but a random stranger on the internet.
The evidence is freely available. Check for yourselves โ by making your own side-by-side, detailed comparisons of the two pieces.
They are two different paintings on two different street signs. And this should be evident to anyone who's paying attention.
Heritage Urban โ I am therefore unclear about whether you're responding:
(a) in good faith, and you are simply careless and/or lack reasonable observational skills; (b) in bad faith, and being knowingly misleading; or
(c) somewhere in between, such as self-delusion prompted by a vested interest in the sale.
__________
The related-yet-separate point I can accept is that the piece you are selling is an authentic Banksy accompanied by a Pest Control Office COA.
If we assume genuineness, here are a couple of possible explanations for the present situation:
1. At least two Single Lane Ahead artworks were created by the artist in 2011 on different street signs as part of a series.
The MOCA / Phillips de Pury piece is one of them, and the Heritage Auctions piece is a different one.
2. Around the time of re-authentication by Pest Control Office on 16 May 2017, the original artwork was swapped by Pest Control Office and replaced with a similar but different piece which was signed and backdated โ perhaps because the artist was no longer satisfied with the quality/execution of the original and wished to improve it.
That is not inconsistent with some of Banksy's past actions.
Moreover, if official city street signs may have (somewhat inconveniently) changed in size between 2011 and 2017, point 2 also offers a plausible reason for the 6.1 cm discrepancy in width dimension between the Phillips de Pury piece (125.1 cm) and the one currently listed by Heritage Auctions (119.0 cm).
But either way, the MOCA / Phillips de Pury piece is a different painting, on a different street sign, to the one being sold by Heritage Auctions.
This would mean the provenance details and exhibition history in the Heritage Auctions listing could at best (if being truthful) state something along the lines of:
"EXHIBITED: A different piece from the same series as this artwork was exhibited at Art in the Streets, MOCA 2011, Los Angeles, California."
Hi Met, Sure happy to respond. Heritage is the only auction house that is transparent with reserves. Which is why you're seeing the $300,000 now. We allow bidding online for two weeks prior to the live auction, if the reserve is not met one week prior to the sale then the reserve is posted. We don't allow Chandelier bidding (link) as the other auction houses do. Single Lane Ahead is the correct artwork and has a corresponding Pest Control COA. As I discussed above, conservation was performed between the Phillips sale and now. To reiterate, the work was done initially on a "found" street sign so there were small areas of dirt, grim, and oxidation (as seen in the Phillips listing), which could have caused rusting and further deterioration. Pest Control and Banksy authorized this conversation, and the work was re-authenticated post-conservation (as of 2016). I can't speak to the artist's mind on why, but some elements changed were done in this conservation process were (likely) necessary for longevity and keeping with Banksy's original intention. This work was featured in the 2011 MOCA show. I hope this helps! Thank you for this. May I ask who actually did the conservation work? It would also be helpful to hear whether this was arranged by the consignor. Or, alternatively, if Pest Control Office took over the process from the outset and arranged the conservation work itself. __________ Once again, the outstanding issue is that, contrary to what you are claiming, the piece Heri tage Auctions is selling is not the same same piece that was exhibited at MOCA in 2011 and later consigned to Phil lips de Pury. Can you not see this? Just look at the high-res image of the street sign from Phil lips de Pury *, and compare it with your own images *. To all interested members, please do not take my word for it; I am but a random stranger on the internet. The evidence is freely available. Check for yourselves โ by making your own side-by-side, detailed comparisons of the two pieces. They are two different paintings on two different street signs. And this should be evident to anyone who's paying attention. Heritage Urban โ I am therefore unclear about whether you're responding: (a) in good faith, and you are simply careless and/or lack reasonable observational skills; (b) in bad faith, and being knowingly misleading; or (c) somewhere in between, such as self-delusion prompted by a vested interest in the sale. __________ The related-yet-separate point I can accept is that the piece you are selling is an authentic Ban ksy accompanied by a Pest Control Office COA. If we assume genuineness, here are a couple of possible explanations for the present situation:1. At least two Single Lane Ahead artworks were created by the artist in 2011 on different street signs as part of a series. The MOCA / Phil lips de Pury piece is one of them, and the Heri tage Auctions piece is a different one. 2. Around the time of re-authentication by Pest Control Office on 16 May 2017, the original artwork was swapped by Pest Control Office and replaced with a similar but different piece which was signed and backdated โ perhaps because the artist was no longer satisfied with the quality/execution of the original and wished to improve it. That is not inconsistent with some of Ban ksy's past actions. Moreover, if official city street signs may have (somewhat inconveniently) changed in size between 2011 and 2017, point 2 also offers a plausible reason for the 6.1 cm discrepancy in width dimension between the Phil lips de Pury piece ( 125.1 cm) and the one currently listed by Heri tage Auctions ( 119.0 cm). But either way, the MOCA / Phil lips de Pury piece is a different painting, on a different street sign, to the one being sold by Heri tage Auctions. This would mean the provenance details and exhibition history in the Heri tage Auctions listing could at best (if being truthful) state something along the lines of: "EXHIBITED: A different piece from the same series as this artwork was exhibited at Art in the Streets, MOCA 2011, Los Angeles, California."
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met
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Art Wanted, by met on Mar 28, 2023 16:10:50 GMT 1, Looking for Pure Evil - Arthur Millerโs Nightmare โ Fluoro. UK based please. Thanks. Had to look this one up, as I'd not seen the image before. 1. If you expand your search beyond the UK, there appears to be four copies of the print currently for sale by some entity called Artetrama, based in Madrid. They're available directly from the dealer's website *, and via intermediary platforms like their eB ay account *, Art sper * and Art space * โ at prices ranging from โฌ395 plus shipping to ยฃ490 plus shipping. 2. What are your thoughts on the print's title, Arthur Miller's Nightmare (Fluoro)? It doesn't really make sense to me: (a) In what way is Marilyn Monroe a nightmare? (b) And in this specific case, why the anachronistic reference to Arthur Miller? Could it simply be a reference to an unhappy marriage? Though other husbands could have been chosen.....
Yes, possibly.
I suppose each of us could always find some explanation, whether actual or projected.
There does, however, seem to be a lack of conceptual consistency in the Nightmare series.
Take for example an image like Andy Warhol's Nightmare.
Or JFK's Nightmare. Was Jackie Kennedy her husband's nightmare because she whined too much when he cheated on her? Or when part of his head was unceremoniously removed?
Looking for Pure Evil - Arthur Millerโs Nightmare โ Fluoro. UK based please. Thanks. Had to look this one up, as I'd not seen the image before. 1. If you expand your search beyond the UK, there appears to be four copies of the print currently for sale by some entity called Artetrama, based in Madrid. They're available directly from the dealer's website *, and via intermediary platforms like their eB ay account *, Art sper * and Art space * โ at prices ranging from โฌ395 plus shipping to ยฃ490 plus shipping. 2. What are your thoughts on the print's title, Arthur Miller's Nightmare (Fluoro)? It doesn't really make sense to me: (a) In what way is Marilyn Monroe a nightmare? (b) And in this specific case, why the anachronistic reference to Arthur Miller? Could it simply be a reference to an unhappy marriage? Though other husbands could have been chosen..... Yes, possibly. I suppose each of us could always find some explanation, whether actual or projected. There does, however, seem to be a lack of conceptual consistency in the Nightmare series. Take for example an image like Andy Warhol's Nightmare. Or JFK's Nightmare. Was Jackie Kennedy her husband's nightmare because she whined too much when he cheated on her? Or when part of his head was unceremoniously removed?
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met
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Art Wanted, by met on Mar 27, 2023 19:37:24 GMT 1, Thanks for the reply, yep have seen them but would prefer a uk transaction
No worries.
In your shoes, I too would prefer a local transaction (assuming one was available and I had the luxury of choice) โ unless the sale price were low enough to offset the greater hassle factor.
But the title of the print would still be a source of minor annoyance for me. Again, what exactly is the "nightmare"?
Separately, as you probably already know, this image is based on a film still from Niagara, circa 1952‑53. That is Marilyn Monroe in her pre‑Miller period.
And so, even if Pure Evil were insistent about retaining the nightmare reference, he should arguably have called the work, Joe DiMaggio's Nightmare.
Pedantry fully acknowledged.
Thanks for the reply, yep have seen them but would prefer a uk transaction No worries. In your shoes, I too would prefer a local transaction (assuming one was available and I had the luxury of choice) โ unless the sale price were low enough to offset the greater hassle factor. But the title of the print would still be a source of minor annoyance for me. Again, what exactly is the "nightmare"? Separately, as you probably already know, this image is based on a film still from Niagara, circa 1952‑53. That is Marilyn Monroe in her pre‑Miller period. And so, even if Pure Ev il were insistent about retaining the nightmare reference, he should arguably have called the work, Joe DiMaggio's Nightmare. Pedantry fully acknowledged.
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met
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Heritage Auctions ๐บ๐ฒ, by met on Mar 27, 2023 19:02:49 GMT 1, Hello all, Thank you met and cemltz and others for your questions (and PMs!) There is nothing untoward here. Single Lane was cleaned after the Phillips auction (it went unsold, which is why it's not listed on the provenance, as is common practice across all auction houses). The owner at the time had concerns that the work was not archival or conserved up to a high standard and would not last the test of time. We feel the condition report reflects this and is accurate. Pest Control and Banksy authorized this conservation (as is common with many other artists, works do go back to the studio), and the work was then sent back to Pest Control to be re-authenticated post-conservation. That is why the Pest Control certificate is dated more recently than the Phillips sale. The Pest Control certificate for this work is dated May 16, 2017. The work is still as close to the artist's intention as possible. If it wasn't, it would not have been granted a PC COA a second time. Thanks and no doubt they'll be many more questions tomorrow. Edited: A further note, as we list in the description Warning Sign was never included in Art in the Streets. Not sure where that came from. Thank you for the helpful response. The key takeaway here would be that, provided: (a) the certificate of authenticity in your possession dated 16 May 2017 is an authentic Pest Control Office COA; and (b) this COA corresponds to the specific piece you are selling, then the piece itself is a genuine Ban ksy. What remains confusing, however, is that the artwork exhibited at the Art in the Streets show at MOCA in 2011, and subsequently offered for sale by Phi llips de Pury in 2012 *, is not the same artwork as the one Heri tage Auctions currently has listed for sale *. They are clearly two separate pieces, i.e. similar but nevertheless different versions of Single Lane Ahead painted on two different street signs โ regardless of whether either or both were ever cleaned.
Heritage Urban
Any follow-up comments or update?
I assumed Heritage Auctions was spending additional time being more thorough with its own due diligence checks (better late than never) โ perhaps by liaising further with the consignor. Or reaching out to Pest Control Office, or even Phillips.
But the only change to the auction listing thus far seems to be the inclusion of a new reserve price of $300,000, pushing up the opening bid amount from the previous $150,000:
fineart.ha.com/itm/banksy-b1974-single-lane-ahead-2011spray-enamel-on-street-sign46-7-8-x-46-7-8-inches-1190-x-1190-cm-with/a/8119-66024.s
__________
As already stated, the specific piece being sold by Heritage Auctions is neither the same painting nor even the same street-sign substrate as the artwork exhibited at Art in the Streets at MOCA in 2011, and then consigned to Phillips de Pury in 2012.
This, irrespective of whether the original MOCA / Phillips de Pury artwork may have been "cleaned" at a later date.
To be clear, they are two separate pieces: different versions of Single Lane Ahead painted on two different street signs.
Supplementary point for emphasis
The above issue was expressly brought to your attention last week, after you accessed the forum once again on 23 March but then remained silent. This was also the moment Heritage Auctions ceased being able to claim good-faith ignorance regarding the materially-inaccurate lot description reference to:
"EXHIBITED: Art in the Streets, MOCA 2011, Los Angeles, California."
For this purpose, let's leave aside questions of integrity and professional reputation.
If the above false reference is not corrected or at least qualified prior to Thursday 30 March, and the piece actually sells on that date, it will potentially place Heritage Auctions in a delicate legal position.
The company might well expose itself to accusations of a โknowing misrepresentation of the truth or concealment of a material fact to induce another to act to his or her detrimentโ.
Hello all, Thank you met and cemltz and others for your questions (and PMs!) There is nothing untoward here. Single Lane was cleaned after the Phillips auction (it went unsold, which is why it's not listed on the provenance, as is common practice across all auction houses). The owner at the time had concerns that the work was not archival or conserved up to a high standard and would not last the test of time. We feel the condition report reflects this and is accurate. Pest Control and Banksy authorized this conservation (as is common with many other artists, works do go back to the studio), and the work was then sent back to Pest Control to be re-authenticated post-conservation. That is why the Pest Control certificate is dated more recently than the Phillips sale. The Pest Control certificate for this work is dated May 16, 2017. The work is still as close to the artist's intention as possible. If it wasn't, it would not have been granted a PC COA a second time. Thanks and no doubt they'll be many more questions tomorrow. Edited: A further note, as we list in the description Warning Sign was never included in Art in the Streets. Not sure where that came from. Thank you for the helpful response. The key takeaway here would be that, provided: (a) the certificate of authenticity in your possession dated 16 May 2017 is an authentic Pest Control Office COA; and (b) this COA corresponds to the specific piece you are selling, then the piece itself is a genuine Ban ksy. What remains confusing, however, is that the artwork exhibited at the Art in the Streets show at MOCA in 2011, and subsequently offered for sale by Phi llips de Pury in 2012 *, is not the same artwork as the one Heri tage Auctions currently has listed for sale *. They are clearly two separate pieces, i.e. similar but nevertheless different versions of Single Lane Ahead painted on two different street signs โ regardless of whether either or both were ever cleaned. Heritage UrbanAny follow-up comments or update? I assumed Heri tage Auctions was spending additional time being more thorough with its own due diligence checks (better late than never) โ perhaps by liaising further with the consignor. Or reaching out to Pest Control Office, or even Phil lips. But the only change to the auction listing thus far seems to be the inclusion of a new reserve price of $300,000, pushing up the opening bid amount from the previous $150,000: fineart.ha.com/itm/banksy-b1974-single-lane-ahead-2011spray-enamel-on-street-sign46-7-8-x-46-7-8-inches-1190-x-1190-cm-with/a/8119-66024.s__________ As already stated, the specific piece being sold by Heri tage Auctions is neither the same painting nor even the same street-sign substrate as the artwork exhibited at Art in the Streets at MOCA in 2011, and then consigned to Phil lips de Pury in 2012. This, irrespective of whether the original MOCA / Phil lips de Pury artwork may have been "cleaned" at a later date. To be clear, they are two separate pieces: different versions of Single Lane Ahead painted on two different street signs. Supplementary point for emphasisThe above issue was expressly brought to your attention last week, after you accessed the forum once again on 23 March but then remained silent. This was also the moment Heri tage Auctions ceased being able to claim good-faith ignorance regarding the materially-inaccurate lot description reference to: "EXHIBITED: Art in the Streets, MOCA 2011, Los Angeles, California."For this purpose, let's leave aside questions of integrity and professional reputation. If the above false reference is not corrected or at least qualified prior to Thursday 30 March, and the piece actually sells on that date, it will potentially place Heri tage Auctions in a delicate legal position. The company might well expose itself to accusations of a โknowing misrepresentation of the truth or concealment of a material fact to induce another to act to his or her detrimentโ.
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met
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Art Wanted, by met on Mar 27, 2023 17:22:35 GMT 1, Looking for Pure Evil - Arthur Millerโs Nightmare โ Fluoro. UK based please. Thanks.
Had to look this one up, as I'd not seen the image before.
1. If you expand your search beyond the UK, there appears to be four copies of the print currently for sale by some entity called Artetrama, based in Madrid.
They're available directly from the dealer's website*, and via intermediary platforms like their eBay account*, Artsper* and Artspace* โ at prices ranging from โฌ395 plus shipping to ยฃ490 plus shipping.
2. What are your thoughts on the print's title, Arthur Miller's Nightmare (Fluoro)?
It doesn't really make sense to me:
(a) In what way is Marilyn Monroe a nightmare?
(b) And in this specific case, why the anachronistic reference to Arthur Miller?
Looking for Pure Evil - Arthur Millerโs Nightmare โ Fluoro. UK based please. Thanks. Had to look this one up, as I'd not seen the image before. 1. If you expand your search beyond the UK, there appears to be four copies of the print currently for sale by some entity called Artetrama, based in Madrid. They're available directly from the dealer's website *, and via intermediary platforms like their eB ay account *, Art sper * and Art space * โ at prices ranging from โฌ395 plus shipping to ยฃ490 plus shipping. 2. What are your thoughts on the print's title, Arthur Miller's Nightmare (Fluoro)? It doesn't really make sense to me: (a) In what way is Marilyn Monroe a nightmare? (b) And in this specific case, why the anachronistic reference to Arthur Miller?
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met
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Show everyone your latest Art Purchase?, by met on Mar 26, 2023 3:15:07 GMT 1, Finally got myself a Diamond Dust Marilyn Edition of 33. Big thanks to Zippy for buying something from me allowing me to buy this beauty
Ambivalence from me about this piece by Nick Smith.
I was never a fan of the original film character. Yet that choice of subject matter does add interest by the very fact it is odd.
If a fellow member could post a photo of the Mr Brainwash source artwork being referenced, it would be appreciated. My Google searches thus far were failures.
I'm familiar with most of the composite images by Brainwash with Marilyn Monroe's hair โ featuring the likes of Andy Warhol, Angelina Jolie, Spock from Star Trek, etc.
But I did not previously know he also made one of Mr. Yunioshi from Breakfast at Tiffany's.
Finally got myself a Diamond Dust Marilyn Edition of 33. Big thanks to Zippy for buying something from me allowing me to buy this beauty Ambivalence from me about this piece by Nick Smith. I was never a fan of the original film character. Yet that choice of subject matter does add interest by the very fact it is odd. If a fellow member could post a photo of the Mr Brain wash source artwork being referenced, it would be appreciated. My Google searches thus far were failures. I'm familiar with most of the composite images by Brain wash with Marilyn Monroe's hair โ featuring the likes of Andy War hol, Angelina Jolie, Spock from Star Trek, etc. But I did not previously know he also made one of Mr. Yunioshi from Breakfast at Tiffany's.
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met
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Face to D*Face, by met on Mar 23, 2023 18:34:22 GMT 1, Beautiful in person, now all sold out.
Respectfully disagree on this occasion.
When I look at the above collaborative sculptures, what I see is bad design, including poor composition.
To my eyes, these mishmash works are ugly โ but also uninterestingly so.
Beautiful in person, now all sold out. Respectfully disagree on this occasion. When I look at the above collaborative sculptures, what I see is bad design, including poor composition. To my eyes, these mishmash works are ugly โ but also uninterestingly so.
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met
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Street Art sculpture next Level! Who is it?, by met on Mar 23, 2023 18:16:29 GMT 1, Anyone recognize (or able to read) the tag above? Guesses...
I am unfamiliar with the tag, but read it as "TAKER".
Anyone recognize (or able to read) the tag above? Guesses... I am unfamiliar with the tag, but read it as "TAKER".
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met
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Heritage Auctions ๐บ๐ฒ, by met on Mar 23, 2023 5:57:11 GMT 1, Hello all, Thank you met and cemltz and others for your questions (and PMs!) There is nothing untoward here. Single Lane was cleaned after the Phillips auction (it went unsold, which is why it's not listed on the provenance, as is common practice across all auction houses). The owner at the time had concerns that the work was not archival or conserved up to a high standard and would not last the test of time. We feel the condition report reflects this and is accurate. Pest Control and Banksy authorized this conservation (as is common with many other artists, works do go back to the studio), and the work was then sent back to Pest Control to be re-authenticated post-conservation. That is why the Pest Control certificate is dated more recently than the Phillips sale. The Pest Control certificate for this work is dated May 16, 2017. The work is still as close to the artist's intention as possible. If it wasn't, it would not have been granted a PC COA a second time. Thanks and no doubt they'll be many more questions tomorrow. Edited: A further note, as we list in the description Warning Sign was never included in Art in the Streets. Not sure where that came from.
Thank you for the helpful response.
The key takeaway here would be that, provided:
(a) the certificate of authenticity in your possession dated 16 May 2017 is an authentic Pest Control Office COA; and
(b) this COA corresponds to the specific piece you are selling,
then the piece itself is a genuine Banksy.
What remains confusing, however, is that the artwork exhibited at the Art in the Streets show at MOCA in 2011, and subsequently offered for sale by Phillips de Pury in 2012*, is not the same artwork as the one Heritage Auctions currently has listed for sale*.
They are clearly two separate pieces, i.e. similar but nevertheless different versions of Single Lane Ahead painted on two different street signs โ regardless of whether either or both were ever cleaned.
Hello all, Thank you met and cemltz and others for your questions (and PMs!) There is nothing untoward here. Single Lane was cleaned after the Phillips auction (it went unsold, which is why it's not listed on the provenance, as is common practice across all auction houses). The owner at the time had concerns that the work was not archival or conserved up to a high standard and would not last the test of time. We feel the condition report reflects this and is accurate. Pest Control and Banksy authorized this conservation (as is common with many other artists, works do go back to the studio), and the work was then sent back to Pest Control to be re-authenticated post-conservation. That is why the Pest Control certificate is dated more recently than the Phillips sale. The Pest Control certificate for this work is dated May 16, 2017. The work is still as close to the artist's intention as possible. If it wasn't, it would not have been granted a PC COA a second time. Thanks and no doubt they'll be many more questions tomorrow. Edited: A further note, as we list in the description Warning Sign was never included in Art in the Streets. Not sure where that came from. Thank you for the helpful response. The key takeaway here would be that, provided: (a) the certificate of authenticity in your possession dated 16 May 2017 is an authentic Pest Control Office COA; and (b) this COA corresponds to the specific piece you are selling, then the piece itself is a genuine Ban ksy. What remains confusing, however, is that the artwork exhibited at the Art in the Streets show at MOCA in 2011, and subsequently offered for sale by Phi llips de Pury in 2012 *, is not the same artwork as the one Heri tage Auctions currently has listed for sale *. They are clearly two separate pieces, i.e. similar but nevertheless different versions of Single Lane Ahead painted on two different street signs โ regardless of whether either or both were ever cleaned.
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met
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Heritage Auctions ๐บ๐ฒ, by met on Mar 23, 2023 0:11:19 GMT 1, There certainly has been paint added and removed in several places. Cleaning the โedgesโ off of the worn paint and making the transitions smoother certainly makes it easier to replicate. As someone with experience in the area, the HA item could be replicated. Iโm not saying it is, but given a week I could do it. Met - was Warning Sign at โArt In The Streetsโ in 2011 (as claimed by HA?) I cannot find any evidence of it in my (limited) files. Would it be weird that it was auctioned in 2008 and exhibited there in 2011?
No, at least not when I attended.
But I also don't see that exhibition-history reference in the Heritage Auctions description for Warning Sign, only for Single Lane Ahead.
There certainly has been paint added and removed in several places. Cleaning the โedgesโ off of the worn paint and making the transitions smoother certainly makes it easier to replicate. As someone with experience in the area, the HA item could be replicated. Iโm not saying it is, but given a week I could do it. Met - was Warning Sign at โArt In The Streetsโ in 2011 (as claimed by HA?) I cannot find any evidence of it in my (limited) files. Would it be weird that it was auctioned in 2008 and exhibited there in 2011? No, at least not when I attended. But I also don't see that exhibition-history reference in the Heri tage Auctions description for Warning Sign, only for Single Lane Ahead.
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met
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Heritage Auctions ๐บ๐ฒ, by met on Mar 22, 2023 23:36:15 GMT 1, Looking at the hourglass alone, it looks like it's been touched up in some areas and also the white overspray seems to have been removed. That is so insane, it ceases to make sense. The two hourglasses look like different pieces. And the newer version has also strayed from the pixelation of the original, with some squares bizarrely or cluelessly changed into rectangles. This alters the conceptual integrity of the work. __________ For the time being, I can think of only one somewhat-plausible explanation: Ban ksy's hourglass ended up getting damaged when the owner (or a previous owner) attempted to clean the street sign. And damaged to such a degree that it was felt necessary to completely repaint the hourglass with reproduction stencils. If this theory is correct โ and I do hope it isn't โ then the artwork is no longer a proper Ban ksy. It's just fuc ked. Input from Heritage Urban is definitely required here. Perhaps along with substantive revisions to its Condition Report for this piece.
After comparing again the Heritage Auctions street sign with the Phillips de Pury street sign from 2012, and spotting additional suspicious differences, here is a second plausible explanation:
Heritage Auctions has a counterfeit Banksy, perhaps accompanied by a counterfeit Pest Control Office COA.
Looking at the hourglass alone, it looks like it's been touched up in some areas and also the white overspray seems to have been removed. That is so insane, it ceases to make sense. The two hourglasses look like different pieces. And the newer version has also strayed from the pixelation of the original, with some squares bizarrely or cluelessly changed into rectangles. This alters the conceptual integrity of the work. __________ For the time being, I can think of only one somewhat-plausible explanation: Ban ksy's hourglass ended up getting damaged when the owner (or a previous owner) attempted to clean the street sign. And damaged to such a degree that it was felt necessary to completely repaint the hourglass with reproduction stencils. If this theory is correct โ and I do hope it isn't โ then the artwork is no longer a proper Ban ksy. It's just fuc ked. Input from Heritage Urban is definitely required here. Perhaps along with substantive revisions to its Condition Report for this piece. After comparing again the Heritage Auctions street sign with the Phillips de Pury street sign from 2012, and spotting additional suspicious differences, here is a second plausible explanation: Heri tage Auctions has a counterfeit Banksy, perhaps accompanied by a counterfeit Pest Control Office COA.
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met
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Heritage Auctions ๐บ๐ฒ, by met on Mar 22, 2023 23:17:17 GMT 1, Looking at the hourglass alone, it looks like it's been touched up in some areas and also the white overspray seems to have been removed.
That is so insane, it ceases to make sense.
The two hourglasses look like different pieces.
And the newer version has also strayed from the pixelation of the original, with some squares bizarrely or cluelessly changed into rectangles. This alters the conceptual integrity of the work.
__________
For the time being, I can think of only one somewhat-plausible explanation:
Banksy's hourglass ended up getting damaged when the owner (or a previous owner) attempted to clean the street sign. And damaged to such a degree that it was felt necessary to completely repaint the hourglass with reproduction stencils.
If this theory is correct โ and I do hope it isn't โ then the artwork is no longer a proper Banksy. It's just fucked.
Input from Heritage Urban is definitely required here.
Perhaps along with substantive revisions to its Condition Report for this piece.
Looking at the hourglass alone, it looks like it's been touched up in some areas and also the white overspray seems to have been removed. That is so insane, it ceases to make sense. The two hourglasses look like different pieces. And the newer version has also strayed from the pixelation of the original, with some squares bizarrely or cluelessly changed into rectangles. This alters the conceptual integrity of the work. __________ For the time being, I can think of only one somewhat-plausible explanation: Ban ksy's hourglass ended up getting damaged when the owner (or a previous owner) attempted to clean the street sign. And damaged to such a degree that it was felt necessary to completely repaint the hourglass with reproduction stencils. If this theory is correct โ and I do hope it isn't โ then the artwork is no longer a proper Ban ksy. It's just fuc ked. Input from Heritage Urban is definitely required here. Perhaps along with substantive revisions to its Condition Report for this piece.
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met
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Heritage Auctions ๐บ๐ฒ, by met on Mar 22, 2023 21:52:13 GMT 1, No real surprise, unless conflating medium with provenance. Despite being created on street-sign substrates, neither artwork was a street piece. They were both sold by Ban ksy / Pest Control Office as commercial works of art. As usual, Met, you have given a more complete and thoughtful response than I am able to bang through this stupid 4 inch screen. My comment was more in the nature of "most people are surprised that there are street signs with COAs", given the confusion of medium with original artistic intent. Also, PC specifically calls out street signs on their website: "There are hundreds of stencils of Banksy images online, and unscrupulous people use them to make fakes - especially road signs for some reason - and then give them realistic sounding back stories in order to sell them for a lot of money. They are not real." The cleaning of that sign is most certainly tragic.
The cleaning did not just alter โ and therefore damage โ the piece. It will have also undermined Banksy's artistic intent.
Moreover, one could argue the cleaning/damage has changed the very meaning of the artwork.
Below is another set of Before and After images, with the artist's-condition version (top) and the sanitised/damaged version being sold by Heritage Auctions (bottom):
__________
Heritage Urban
Does Single Lane Ahead come with an old-style or a new-style COA?
If the former, and if a request for a new-style COA were later made by the artwork's future owner to Pest Control Office, query whether it might now only be issued with a caveat included โ along the lines of "Not in artist's original condition".
A similar caveat was added to at least one COA I'm aware of. If memory serves, it was for a Girl With Balloon screenprint, whose borders had been cropped so that it could fit into a smaller frame.
No real surprise, unless conflating medium with provenance. Despite being created on street-sign substrates, neither artwork was a street piece. They were both sold by Ban ksy / Pest Control Office as commercial works of art. As usual, Met, you have given a more complete and thoughtful response than I am able to bang through this stupid 4 inch screen. My comment was more in the nature of "most people are surprised that there are street signs with COAs", given the confusion of medium with original artistic intent. Also, PC specifically calls out street signs on their website: "There are hundreds of stencils of Banksy images online, and unscrupulous people use them to make fakes - especially road signs for some reason - and then give them realistic sounding back stories in order to sell them for a lot of money. They are not real." The cleaning of that sign is most certainly tragic.The cleaning did not just alter โ and therefore damage โ the piece. It will have also undermined Ban ksy's artistic intent. Moreover, one could argue the cleaning/damage has changed the very meaning of the artwork. Below is another set of Before and After images, with the artist's-condition version ( top) and the sanitised/damaged version being sold by Her itage Auctions ( bottom): __________ Heritage UrbanDoes Single Lane Ahead come with an old-style or a new-style COA? If the former, and if a request for a new-style COA were later made by the artwork's future owner to Pest Control Office, query whether it might now only be issued with a caveat included โ along the lines of "Not in artist's original condition". A similar caveat was added to at least one COA I'm aware of. If memory serves, it was for a Girl With Balloon screenprint, whose borders had been cropped so that it could fit into a smaller frame.
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met
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Heritage Auctions ๐บ๐ฒ, by met on Mar 22, 2023 18:00:26 GMT 1, The two Banksy items.... even without a COA are great Somewhat surprisingly (given they are street signs), both are listed as "accompanied by a Pest Control Certificate of Authenticity."I suspect related to the fact that Banksy had at least one of them at "Art in The Streets" back in 2011. These are, indeed, interesting pieces.
No real surprise, unless conflating medium with provenance.
Despite being created on street-sign substrates, neither artwork was a street piece. They were both sold by Banksy / Pest Control Office as commercial works of art.
And they've also been around the block:
(i) Warning Sign was previously resold at Christie's in 2008*.
(ii) Single Lane Ahead was previously resold at Phillips de Pury (as it was then known) in 2012* โ and has until recently been available for sale at Guy Hepner since at least 2020, whether or not that clown gallery was in actual possession of it.
__________
What is most unfortunate about Single Lane Ahead are the efforts that were made at some point after 2012 to "clean" the artwork.
The current version can therefore no longer be described as being in its original condition, as issued by the artist himself.
Expressed differently, in an attempt to sanitise the piece, some fool actually damaged it.
I would be curious to hear the thoughts of Heritage Urban regarding this issue.
Phillips de Pury 2012 original version
Heritage Auctions 2023 sanitised/damaged version
The two Banksy items.... even without a COA are great Somewhat surprisingly (given they are street signs), both are listed as "accompanied by a Pest Control Certificate of Authenticity."I suspect related to the fact that Banksy had at least one of them at "Art in The Streets" back in 2011. These are, indeed, interesting pieces. No real surprise, unless conflating medium with provenance. Despite being created on street-sign substrates, neither artwork was a street piece. They were both sold by Ban ksy / Pest Control Office as commercial works of art. And they've also been around the block: (i) Warning Sign was previously resold at Chris tie's in 2008 *. (ii) Single Lane Ahead was previously resold at Phi llips de Pury (as it was then known) in 2012 * โ and has until recently been available for sale at Guy Hepner since at least 2020, whether or not that clown gallery was in actual possession of it. __________ What is most unfortunate about Single Lane Ahead are the efforts that were made at some point after 2012 to "clean" the artwork. The current version can therefore no longer be described as being in its original condition, as issued by the artist himself. Expressed differently, in an attempt to sanitise the piece, some fool actually damaged it. I would be curious to hear the thoughts of Heritage Urban regarding this issue. Phillips de Pury 2012 original versionHeritage Auctions 2023 sanitised/damaged version
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met
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Open mic in Margate, by met on Mar 19, 2023 14:24:10 GMT 1, I ask a kindness to the native English speakers on this forum... could you transcribe in this thread... the words that are spoken?... They might be interested. Thank you ๐ *please excuse my great ignorance. someday i will study and learn english. I promise! If you want to find people far from Banksy's ideals just go to this forum. Nobody deigned to help translate the text. Really commendable. Who knows how many times Banksy has written here... and he must have thought that... you are just so many profiteers of his art. Don't make a small gesture... and then imagine a large donation... after the auction of a Banksy piece. PCs?...they should strip you of your certificates...and let you grow up in the midst of your big problems. Thanks so much for everything. ๐
It is often possible to get a reasonably-accurate picture of some of the background and personality traits of a forum member.
This can be done by accessing their profile and clicking 'View this member's recent posts.'
In your case, pertinent elements we can gleam are as follows:
1. Member since December 2022.
2. Four posts to their name, in a single thread, all written over the last three days.
3. Consequently, somebody who is unknown to others here, i.e. a random on the internet, having made no real contribution to this forum, and therefore having:
(a) brought pretty much nothing to the table (like an uninvited party guest showing up empty-handed); and
(b) made neither the time nor the effort to build up any genuine goodwill with fellow members.
4. Notwithstanding the above, this new member still expects a complete stranger to drop everything at short notice during their weekend, and spend an hour of their life doing transcription work for that new member.
5. And when this expectation isn't met in less than 24 hours, the new member gets openly snide and petulant.
__________
I have cut-and-paste a few definitions, which may be more helpful to you in the longterm than open-mic poetry:
self-absorbed (adjective): preoccupied with one's own feelings, interests, or situation
entitled (adjective): believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment
passive-aggressive (adjective): being, marked by, or displaying behavior characterised by the expression of negative feelings, resentment, and aggression in an unassertive passive way
I am also hoping you are not a millennial, because that would really be too much of an unfortunate stereotype.
I ask a kindness to the native English speakers on this forum... could you transcribe in this thread... the words that are spoken?... They might be interested. Thank you ๐ *please excuse my great ignorance. someday i will study and learn english. I promise! If you want to find people far from Banksy's ideals just go to this forum. Nobody deigned to help translate the text. Really commendable. Who knows how many times Banksy has written here... and he must have thought that... you are just so many profiteers of his art. Don't make a small gesture... and then imagine a large donation... after the auction of a Banksy piece. PCs?...they should strip you of your certificates...and let you grow up in the midst of your big problems. Thanks so much for everything. ๐ It is often possible to get a reasonably-accurate picture of some of the background and personality traits of a fo rum member. This can be done by accessing their profile and clicking 'View this member's recent posts.'In your case, pertinent elements we can gleam are as follows: 1. Member since December 2022. 2. Four posts to their name, in a single thread, all written over the last three days. 3. Consequently, somebody who is unknown to others here, i.e. a random on the internet, having made no real contribution to this for um, and therefore having: (a) brought pretty much nothing to the table (like an uninvited party guest showing up empty-handed); and (b) made neither the time nor the effort to build up any genuine goodwill with fellow members. 4. Notwithstanding the above, this new member still expects a complete stranger to drop everything at short notice during their weekend, and spend an hour of their life doing transcription work for that new member. 5. And when this expectation isn't met in less than 24 hours, the new member gets openly snide and petulant. __________ I have cut-and-paste a few definitions, which may be more helpful to you in the longterm than open-mic poetry: self-absorbed (adjective): preoccupied with one's own feelings, interests, or situationentitled (adjective): believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatmentpassive-aggressive (adjective): being, marked by, or displaying behavior characterised by the expression of negative feelings, resentment, and aggression in an unassertive passive wayI am also hoping you are not a millennial, because that would really be too much of an unfortunate stereotype.
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met
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What Music are you listening to at the moment ?, by met on Mar 17, 2023 22:56:50 GMT 1, As well as Dismaland, a couple of years later. But what on earth was the sound engineer playing at during the above 1976 version of this classic tune? Or the cameramen, for that matter? While I don't wish to come across as a conspiracy theorist, they all pretty much sidelined the sound and images of the real star of the song, Gene Frenkle (1950โ2000). Brilliant. One question though, did (Donโt Fear) The Reaper make an appearance at Dismaland? I may well be wrong but I only recall Stayin' Alive playing on repeat.
Ah, yes, you're absolutely right. Confusion on my part. And thank you for the correction.
Stayin' Alive is actually a funnier song to pair with the Grim Reaper in a bumper car.
That concept could easily be turned into an amusement-park chase scene for the next Scream film.
As well as Dismaland, a couple of years later. But what on earth was the sound engineer playing at during the above 1976 version of this classic tune? Or the cameramen, for that matter? While I don't wish to come across as a conspiracy theorist, they all pretty much sidelined the sound and images of the real star of the song, Gene Frenkle (1950โ2000). Brilliant. One question though, did (Donโt Fear) The Reaper make an appearance at Dismaland? I may well be wrong but I only recall Stayin' Alive playing on repeat. Ah, yes, you're absolutely right. Confusion on my part. And thank you for the correction. Stayin' Alive is actually a funnier song to pair with the Grim Reaper in a bumper car. That concept could easily be turned into an amusement-park chase scene for the next Scream film.
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met
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What Music are you listening to at the moment ?, by met on Mar 17, 2023 20:10:16 GMT 1,
As well as Dismaland, a couple of years later.
But what on earth was the sound engineer playing at during the above 1976 version of this classic tune?
Or the cameramen, for that matter?
While I don't wish to come across as a conspiracy theorist, they all pretty much sidelined the sound and images of the real star of the song, Gene Frenkle (1950โ2000).
As well as Dismaland, a couple of years later. But what on earth was the sound engineer playing at during the above 1976 version of this classic tune? Or the cameramen, for that matter? While I don't wish to come across as a conspiracy theorist, they all pretty much sidelined the sound and images of the real star of the song, Gene Frenkle (1950โ2000).
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met
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June 2009
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Edgar Plans ๐ช๐ธ Sculpture โข Madrid โข NBA Basketball , by met on Mar 17, 2023 15:44:07 GMT 1, After I was violated by the Edgar Plans team during the fake NFT debacle - I would never buy anything attached to that artist and his team.
That is a glass-half-full attitude โ which, in fairness, is fully understandable given the circumstances you've described.
But buying one of these toys could actually be the first step in your journey towards eventual recovery from your trauma.
It might help to make things less distressing, if you wanted to use the toy to show all of us where exactly the Edgar Plans team violated you, and how.
A similar technique was demonstrated by Detective Jarvis in Season 10, Episode 1 of South Park*.
After I was violated by the Edgar Plans team during the fake NFT debacle - I would never buy anything attached to that artist and his team. That is a glass-half-full attitude โ which, in fairness, is fully understandable given the circumstances you've described. But buying one of these toys could actually be the first step in your journey towards eventual recovery from your trauma. It might help to make things less distressing, if you wanted to use the toy to show all of us where exactly the Edgar Pl ans team violated you, and how. A similar technique was demonstrated by Detective Jarvis in Season 10, Episode 1 of South Park*.
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met
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Edgar Plans ๐ช๐ธ Sculpture โข Madrid โข NBA Basketball , by met on Mar 16, 2023 23:56:38 GMT 1, I was just wondering if you guys think the Edgar Plans statues are good investments if bought at drop cost??? I appreciate your feedback in advance
Try looking at it less from an investment perspective, and more in terms of the perception management of both you and your fine art collection.
The question I constantly ask myself is twofold:
1. Do I wish to be viewed by family, friends, peers, dealers and auction-house specialists as a seasoned collector with a correspondingly-enviable collection โ one that evidences my mature tastes and discerning eye?
or
2. Do I want to be dismissed as some ignorant, novice enthusiast who, like a child, is easily-swayed by hype, derivative passing fads, and art-world equivalents of the latest shiny bauble?
Of course, pride dictates (without fail) that I always choose Option 1.
And this is why I myself have stocked up on plenty of toys by Edgar Plans.
Photo below of recent acquisitions which, with serendipitous good fortune, perfectly complement my separate collection of works by Javier Calleja, the Connor Brothers, Martin Whatson, and Alec Monopoly.
I was just wondering if you guys think the Edgar Plans statues are good investments if bought at drop cost??? I appreciate your feedback in advance Try looking at it less from an investment perspective, and more in terms of the perception management of both you and your fine art collection. The question I constantly ask myself is twofold:1. Do I wish to be viewed by family, friends, peers, dealers and auction-house specialists as a seasoned collector with a correspondingly-enviable collection โ one that evidences my mature tastes and discerning eye? or 2. Do I want to be dismissed as some ignorant, novice enthusiast who, like a child, is easily-swayed by hype, derivative passing fads, and art-world equivalents of the latest shiny bauble? Of course, pride dictates (without fail) that I always choose Option 1. And this is why I myself have stocked up on plenty of toys by Edgar Plans. Photo below of recent acquisitions which, with serendipitous good fortune, perfectly complement my separate collection of works by Javier Calleja, the Connor Brothers, Martin Whatson, and Alec Monopoly.
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met
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Kaws โข Bronze Figures , by met on Mar 16, 2023 6:05:09 GMT 1, I'm just having a laugh pal and enjoying myself, perfectly in control. Perhaps, but it's also typical behaviour of people using duplicate or burner accounts โ who are unconcerned about prolonging sh itshow slanging matches, because they're unlikely to ever be held truly answerable. Is this your sole account on the for um? This whole forum is basically about a dozen grumpy/greedy/bored middle aged men all with multiple accounts, who slag each other off on one account and probably sell to each other on the other. Who cares? The whole point of having users name is to have a degree of privacy and given the level of vitriol I knew I was going to get with this thread I'm probably not going to want my name, address and phone number out there.
It is important for us to avoid conflating and confusing the issues.
A clear distinction may thus be helpful:
1. Privacy is separate from what I'm referring to.
And with very limited exceptions (such as cases of fraud or theft), the privacy of forum members should certainly be fully maintained. As you've already indicated, that is indeed the point of having usernames.
I suspect there is little to no disagreement between us on the issue of privacy.
2. My earlier comments related to duplicate or multiple accounts, being another matter altogether.
Unlike single accounts, multiple accounts held by the same individual are a nefarious influence.
They encourage nastiness and deceitful behaviour, because having more than one username allows members to feel even less answerable for their online behaviour. It removes many of the checks and balances that push some of us to remain civilised and honest, in cases where that push might not come naturally from within ourselves.
And everyone should definitely care about civility and honesty.
Presumably, this is the rationale for Rule 1 of the Forum Rules*:
1. As a member you are only allowed to use one forum account. [...]
Now, the suggestion that all members here have multiple accounts is false. Even if written in jest, this still sounds like an attempt to both trivialise and deflect.
Having more than one account is also duplicitous of course, knowingly misleading to others on this message board. It demonstrates a lack of integrity by the relevant member, a deficiency of character. Like a weasel. And who would place their trust in or give their business to a weasel?
Worst of all, since anyone who uses multiple accounts does so for the purpose of behaving and acting in a manner in which they wouldn't otherwise dare, by very definition that is cowardice โ which is nay impossible to respect.
[Just as a side note, there are actually some crooks I could feasibly hold in regard, for reasons other than their dishonesty. Like, say, the ability to plan and carry out a well-executed heist.
But cowards? Never. Irrespective of any redeeming qualities they might have, their lack of backbone would trump everything else.
Spinelessness is possibly the trait I find most contemptible and unsettling; it makes me feel vicariously ashamed.]
__________
With the above distinction now dealt with, I'll repeat my question:
Is this your sole account on the forum?
I'm just having a laugh pal and enjoying myself, perfectly in control. Perhaps, but it's also typical behaviour of people using duplicate or burner accounts โ who are unconcerned about prolonging sh itshow slanging matches, because they're unlikely to ever be held truly answerable. Is this your sole account on the for um? This whole forum is basically about a dozen grumpy/greedy/bored middle aged men all with multiple accounts, who slag each other off on one account and probably sell to each other on the other. Who cares? The whole point of having users name is to have a degree of privacy and given the level of vitriol I knew I was going to get with this thread I'm probably not going to want my name, address and phone number out there. It is important for us to avoid conflating and confusing the issues. A clear distinction may thus be helpful: 1. Privacy is separate from what I'm referring to. And with very limited exceptions (such as cases of fraud or theft), the privacy of fo rum members should certainly be fully maintained. As you've already indicated, that is indeed the point of having usernames. I suspect there is little to no disagreement between us on the issue of privacy. 2. My earlier comments related to duplicate or multiple accounts, being another matter altogether. Unlike single accounts, multiple accounts held by the same individual are a nefarious influence. They encourage nastiness and deceitful behaviour, because having more than one username allows members to feel even less answerable for their online behaviour. It removes many of the checks and balances that push some of us to remain civilised and honest, in cases where that push might not come naturally from within ourselves. And everyone should definitely care about civility and honesty. Presumably, this is the rationale for Rule 1 of the Fo rum Rules *: 1. As a member you are only allowed to use one forum account. [...]Now, the suggestion that all members here have multiple accounts is false. Even if written in jest, this still sounds like an attempt to both trivialise and deflect. Having more than one account is also duplicitous of course, knowingly misleading to others on this message board. It demonstrates a lack of integrity by the relevant member, a deficiency of character. Like a weasel. And who would place their trust in or give their business to a weasel? Worst of all, since anyone who uses multiple accounts does so for the purpose of behaving and acting in a manner in which they wouldn't otherwise dare, by very definition that is cowardice โ which is nay impossible to respect. [Just as a side note, there are actually some crooks I could feasibly hold in regard, for reasons other than their dishonesty. Like, say, the ability to plan and carry out a well-executed heist.
But cowards? Never. Irrespective of any redeeming qualities they might have, their lack of backbone would trump everything else.
Spinelessness is possibly the trait I find most contemptible and unsettling; it makes me feel vicariously ashamed.]__________ With the above distinction now dealt with, I'll repeat my question: Is this your sole account on the forum?
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met
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Kaws โข Bronze Figures , by met on Mar 16, 2023 2:30:14 GMT 1, What distinguishes you in this tiresome tit-for-tat is that you are actually the seller here. You're supposed to be the professional dealer/trader. And so, why not behave as a professional, with decorum and poise? Instead of being so unpleasant, like some boorish amateur who's incapable of controlling their emotions. I'm just having a laugh pal and enjoying myself, perfectly in control.
Perhaps, but it's also typical behaviour of people using duplicate or burner accounts โ who are unconcerned about prolonging shitshow slanging matches, because they're unlikely to ever be held truly answerable.
Is this your sole account on the forum?
What distinguishes you in this tiresome tit-for-tat is that you are actually the seller here. You're supposed to be the professional dealer/trader. And so, why not behave as a professional, with decorum and poise? Instead of being so unpleasant, like some boorish amateur who's incapable of controlling their emotions. I'm just having a laugh pal and enjoying myself, perfectly in control. Perhaps, but it's also typical behaviour of people using duplicate or burner accounts โ who are unconcerned about prolonging sh itshow slanging matches, because they're unlikely to ever be held truly answerable. Is this your sole account on the for um?
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met
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Kaws โข Bronze Figures , by met on Mar 16, 2023 2:09:20 GMT 1, your kusama canvases! LMAO aren't you special. That's probably the most douche bag post I've ever seen on here, and that's saying something. Susumu not kusama. Artist a thousandaire, not a millionaire. Been a correction in market for his poodles since the peak. Ah the guy the paints the fucking poodles, jesus the bloke is even more cringe than I thought. I thought he was just arrogant but fair play had some serious blue chip art he was bragging about, now I feel sorry for the poor guy.
What distinguishes you in this tiresome tit-for-tat is that you are actually the seller here. You're supposed to be the professional dealer/trader.
And so, why not behave as a professional, with decorum and poise?
Instead of being so unpleasant, like some boorish amateur who's incapable of controlling their emotions.
your kusama canvases! LMAO aren't you special. That's probably the most douche bag post I've ever seen on here, and that's saying something. Susumu not kusama. Artist a thousandaire, not a millionaire. Been a correction in market for his poodles since the peak. Ah the guy the paints the fucking poodles, jesus the bloke is even more cringe than I thought. I thought he was just arrogant but fair play had some serious blue chip art he was bragging about, now I feel sorry for the poor guy. What distinguishes you in this tiresome tit-for-tat is that you are actually the seller here. You're supposed to be the professional dealer/trader. And so, why not behave as a professional, with decorum and poise? Instead of being so unpleasant, like some boorish amateur who's incapable of controlling their emotions.
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met
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Banksy
Mar 15, 2023 20:18:06 GMT 1
Banksy, by met on Mar 15, 2023 20:18:06 GMT 1, Definitely a Dog.
Definitely a Dog.
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