met
Junior Member
Posts • 2,782
Likes • 6,706
June 2009
|
Art Wanted, by met on Feb 6, 2023 6:02:26 GMT 1, Selling my Mr. Brain wash balloon girl 2021 certified & Authentic. can someone tell me what this worth.[...]
In terms of artistic value, this would fall within the negative figures.
Bearing in mind a variety of factors like:
(i) originality of concept;
(ii) compositional aesthetics; and
(iii) the answer by Deep Thought to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything,
my best guess regarding its artistic value would be -42.
__________
On the plus side, I believe works like these have a significant cautionary-tale value for other collectors who might be tempted to make ill-considered art purchases of their own.
Selling my Mr. Brain wash balloon girl 2021 certified & Authentic. can someone tell me what this worth.[...] In terms of artistic value, this would fall within the negative figures. Bearing in mind a variety of factors like: (i) originality of concept; (ii) compositional aesthetics; and (iii) the answer by Deep Thought to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything, my best guess regarding its artistic value would be -42. __________ On the plus side, I believe works like these have a significant cautionary-tale value for other collectors who might be tempted to make ill-considered art purchases of their own.
|
|
met
Junior Member
Posts • 2,782
Likes • 6,706
June 2009
|
Stik
Feb 6, 2023 5:40:53 GMT 1
Stik, by met on Feb 6, 2023 5:40:53 GMT 1, There is a limit of one print per child. This seems like a rare sort of event where you're actually rewarded for being a parent.
Perhaps not to the same degree, but one could possibly foresee scenarios similar to what occurred during the early days of Gross Domestic Product in October 2019:
- parents pimping out their offspring for free posters, and sometimes then waiting in the vicinity until the next shift change among the GDP attendants, before wheeling everyone out again for another go at the free loot.
- non-parents scouring the area for random schoolchildren to sort out rent‑a‑kid business arrangements ("I'll wait right here at McDonald's. If you lot get some of those crappy posters, I'll give you a fiver / Happy Meal for each one that you bring back to me").
There is a limit of one print per child. This seems like a rare sort of event where you're actually rewarded for being a parent. Perhaps not to the same degree, but one could possibly foresee scenarios similar to what occurred during the early days of Gross Domestic Product in October 2019: - parents pimping out their offspring for free posters, and sometimes then waiting in the vicinity until the next shift change among the G DP attendants, before wheeling everyone out again for another go at the free loot. - non-parents scouring the area for random schoolchildren to sort out rent‑a‑kid business arrangements ( "I'll wait right here at McDonald's. If you lot get some of those crappy posters, I'll give you a fiver / Happy Meal for each one that you bring back to me").
|
|
met
Junior Member
Posts • 2,782
Likes • 6,706
June 2009
|
Mason Storm 🇬🇧 New Print Release • Who is Mason Storm?, by met on Feb 3, 2023 8:21:56 GMT 1, Hi, Was wondering what is the difference between the museum edition and the regular edition?
In terms of artistic or business integrity, there is no real difference between the so-called Collector's Edition and the regular edition.
1. Both editions were products of an equally parasitic, wholesale appropriation by Mason Storm of another artist's idea and output.
Besides the obvious motive of financial profit, this was presumably part of an ongoing attempt by Storm to gain relevance. Albeit sadly by artifice, with Storm creating yet another forced association between himself and an actually-talented, successful artist.
2. Both editions were equally reliant upon deceptive marketing by Storm and Stowe Gallery.
Specifically, the deceit consisted of repeated insinuations of some fabricated professional relationship between Storm and the other artist.
It was a prolonged, cynical effort to mislead collectors and speculators — so they would be more amenable to opening their wallets for the large quantities of imitation art being offloaded onto them.
This would include print releases of a pastiche version of the famous painting, Devolved Parliament.
In a desperate bid to maximise revenue, however, Storm and Stowe Gallery would choose to release the image in three separate sections over a two-year period. Moreover, the sections were cropped in a manner that made zero compositional sense.
For any collector with an artistic eye and desire to hang all three sections, the end result would therefore become a big "Fuck you, you're screwed, haha!", courtesy of Storm and his enabler gallery.
__________
Mason Storm and Stowe Gallery: Taking the notion of adding insult to injury to whole new level.
Possible hanging choices for Monkey Parliament (tough call regarding which option works best):
A.
B.
C.
Hi, Was wondering what is the difference between the museum edition and the regular edition? In terms of artistic or business integrity, there is no real difference between the so-called Collector's Edition and the regular edition. 1. Both editions were products of an equally parasitic, wholesale appropriation by Mason Storm of another artist's idea and output. Besides the obvious motive of financial profit, this was presumably part of an ongoing attempt by Storm to gain relevance. Albeit sadly by artifice, with Sto rm creating yet another forced association between himself and an actually-talented, successful artist. 2. Both editions were equally reliant upon deceptive marketing by Sto rm and Stowe Gallery. Specifically, the deceit consisted of repeated insinuations of some fabricated professional relationship between Sto rm and the other artist. It was a prolonged, cynical effort to mislead collectors and speculators — so they would be more amenable to opening their wallets for the large quantities of imitation art being offloaded onto them. This would include print releases of a pastiche version of the famous painting, Devolved Parliament. In a desperate bid to maximise revenue, however, Sto rm and Sto we Gallery would choose to release the image in three separate sections over a two-year period. Moreover, the sections were cropped in a manner that made zero compositional sense. For any collector with an artistic eye and desire to hang all three sections, the end result would therefore become a big "Fuck you, you're screwed, haha!", courtesy of Sto rm and his enabler gallery. __________ Mason Storm and Stowe Gallery: Taking the notion of adding insult to injury to whole new level.Possible hanging choices for Monkey Parliament (tough call regarding which option works best): A.B.C.
|
|
met
Junior Member
Posts • 2,782
Likes • 6,706
June 2009
|
Banksy Toxic Mary, Virgin Mary Print, by met on Jan 31, 2023 0:39:47 GMT 1, To my mind and eyes, that one is even worse. Just as a minor aside, I would respectfully challenge two of your referenc (i) "more complete context"For me, the image with crosshairs and jet fighters is not necessarily more complete; it is just different. And conceptually less focused. Ban ksy made the work simpler as well as far stronger by subsequently concentrating on Mary (whose purported virgin status I would also challenge) and the wee baby Jesus (whose name makes me think that at least one of his parents may have been Latin American). (ii) "often painted with"This may be down to my own ignorance regarding the number of such pieces that were actually painted. Or just differences in our respective views about the meaning of "often". [...] The beauty of art! (Even Banksy "art!) Everything in the eye of the beholder. As for the "context" and "often" comments: when not constrained by the real estate or the process offered up by prints on paper, the "Virgin Mary" painting done with spray cans and stencil generally had explicit war references. - The initial large board versions made prior to Turf War had cross hairs and jets. - At Turf War 3 of the 4 had bombs and jets.- In Sydney the massive street version was completely surrounded by bombs. Etc. For me, this "additional context" allows for a third obvious or blatant or shallow interpretation: 1) Organized religion is bad. 2) To quote the artist, himself: "A lot of mothers will do anything for their children, except let them be themselves." 3) All the love and care we give our children to protect them when they are young is really just raising them to be a part of the war industrial machine in which we live... Third options is less the mother intentionally poisoning the child - more that she is part of (or representative of) a bigger system...slightly more friendly, less brutal view... Back to the sale!
Curiosity piqued.
I was familiar with only one double or mirrored Virgin Mary with the crosshairs and jet fighters from Turf War. A large piece on cardboard.
Have you seen more of these that were exhibited at the 2003 show?
[It is possible that additional originals were made, perhaps as part of a series to sell to different interested collectors, but I myself don't recall more than one having actually been on display.]
Anecdotally, the other large-scale Virgin Mary I saw at the show — prominently placed by the entrance and also on cardboard, but without the crosshairs and jet fighters — is the original painting and source image for the POW screen-prints:
Photo by Alan Denney
To my mind and eyes, that one is even worse. Just as a minor aside, I would respectfully challenge two of your referenc (i) "more complete context"For me, the image with crosshairs and jet fighters is not necessarily more complete; it is just different. And conceptually less focused. Ban ksy made the work simpler as well as far stronger by subsequently concentrating on Mary (whose purported virgin status I would also challenge) and the wee baby Jesus (whose name makes me think that at least one of his parents may have been Latin American). (ii) "often painted with"This may be down to my own ignorance regarding the number of such pieces that were actually painted. Or just differences in our respective views about the meaning of "often". [...] The beauty of art! (Even Banksy "art!) Everything in the eye of the beholder. As for the "context" and "often" comments: when not constrained by the real estate or the process offered up by prints on paper, the "Virgin Mary" painting done with spray cans and stencil generally had explicit war references. - The initial large board versions made prior to Turf War had cross hairs and jets. - At Turf War 3 of the 4 had bombs and jets.- In Sydney the massive street version was completely surrounded by bombs. Etc. For me, this "additional context" allows for a third obvious or blatant or shallow interpretation: 1) Organized religion is bad. 2) To quote the artist, himself: "A lot of mothers will do anything for their children, except let them be themselves." 3) All the love and care we give our children to protect them when they are young is really just raising them to be a part of the war industrial machine in which we live... Third options is less the mother intentionally poisoning the child - more that she is part of (or representative of) a bigger system...slightly more friendly, less brutal view... Back to the sale! Curiosity piqued. I was familiar with only one double or mirrored Virgin Mary with the crosshairs and jet fighters from Turf War. A large piece on cardboard. Have you seen more of these that were exhibited at the 2003 show? [It is possible that additional originals were made, perhaps as part of a series to sell to different interested collectors, but I myself don't recall more than one having actually been on display.]Anecdotally, the other large-scale Virgin Mary I saw at the show — prominently placed by the entrance and also on cardboard, but without the crosshairs and jet fighters — is the original painting and source image for the POW screen-prints: Photo by Alan Denney
|
|
met
Junior Member
Posts • 2,782
Likes • 6,706
June 2009
|
OUTIS • Print Release • Street Art, by met on Jan 30, 2023 20:11:15 GMT 1, we have a release tomorrow by the mysterious artist OUTIS entitled LOVE HURTS. 3pm tomorrow 12th feb at 3pm graffitiprints.bigcartel.com/admin/products6 colour screen print on 300 gsm paper 50 x 50 cm. we loved this image and its subtle twist with it being valentines day and all that... main edition of 100 in grey at £90 pink edition is a timed release over 48 hours however many sold determines the final edition size at £150. did we ever get to the bottom of this fiasco?? this thread gave me my first ban. oh the good old days lol
It was pretty straightforward:
(a) an impostor artist; and
(b) a printer/publisher,
colluding together to take advantage of the wishful thinking, naivety or stupidity of many art collectors.
One of Banksy's rats was incorporated into the image, thereby knowingly encouraging the easily-duped to ask themselves, "Could this actually be Banksy using a different pseudonym, even if there's only a 0.01% chance?"
A cynical rip-off manoeuvre by the dishonest individuals responsible for that print release.
__________
These shenanigans are now sadly commonplace.
They are what we have also come to expect from other impostor artists like Ted Patrick, Mrs Banksy, Gonefellow, JBoy, and all the rest.
we have a release tomorrow by the mysterious artist OUTIS entitled LOVE HURTS. 3pm tomorrow 12th feb at 3pm graffitiprints.bigcartel.com/admin/products6 colour screen print on 300 gsm paper 50 x 50 cm. we loved this image and its subtle twist with it being valentines day and all that... main edition of 100 in grey at £90 pink edition is a timed release over 48 hours however many sold determines the final edition size at £150. did we ever get to the bottom of this fiasco?? this thread gave me my first ban. oh the good old days lol It was pretty straightforward: (a) an impostor artist; and (b) a printer/publisher, colluding together to take advantage of the wishful thinking, naivety or stupidity of many art collectors. One of Ban ksy's rats was incorporated into the image, thereby knowingly encouraging the easily-duped to ask themselves, "Could this actually be Banksy using a different pseudonym, even if there's only a 0.01% chance?"A cynical rip-off manoeuvre by the dishonest individuals responsible for that print release. __________ These shenanigans are now sadly commonplace. They are what we have also come to expect from other impostor artists like Ted Patrick, Mrs Banksy, Gonefellow, JBoy, and all the rest.
|
|
met
Junior Member
Posts • 2,782
Likes • 6,706
June 2009
|
Banksy Toxic Mary, Virgin Mary Print, by met on Jan 30, 2023 19:24:35 GMT 1, I've expressed my criticism about Virgin Mary / Toxic Mary in the past, and remain critical of the image. In one instance, this led to what I consider an insightful exchange of views with @ badrobot and sommguy — a back-and-forth which can currently be found on pages 1,143 and 1,145 of the thread, Your latest purchase?. If that discussion may be of interest, see here * and here *. Realizing we are hijacking a legitimate for sale thread, one last snippet here.. Maybe a separate thread, if your interpretation and view changes when thinking about the image in terms of the more complete context it was often painted with - crosshairs, jet fighters, etc. : As someone who has never really seen eye to eye with organized religion, I quite like the brutal and direct nature of the print, while still allowing for more subtle interpretations. That said, it (and Christ with Shopping Bags) has never been allowed out of my basement studio by my wife...
To my mind and eyes, that one is even worse.
Just as a minor aside, I would respectfully challenge two of your references:
(i) "more complete context"
For me, the image with crosshairs and jet fighters is not necessarily more complete; it is just different. And conceptually less focused.
Banksy made the work simpler as well as far stronger by subsequently concentrating on Mary (whose purported virgin status I would also challenge) and the wee baby Jesus (whose name makes me think that at least one of his parents may have been Latin American).
(ii) "often painted with"
This may be down to my own ignorance regarding the number of such pieces that were actually painted. Or just differences in our respective views about the meaning of "often".
__________
You mention "the brutal and direct nature" of the Virgin Mary print.
I would add "obvious" or "sixth-form level" in concept.
As for Christ with Shopping Bags, I see that piece as being on a completely different level. Still brutal and direct, but also a great work of art. And arguably reminiscent of some of the most memorable graphic imagery by Peter Kennard.
I've expressed my criticism about Virgin Mary / Toxic Mary in the past, and remain critical of the image. In one instance, this led to what I consider an insightful exchange of views with @ badrobot and sommguy — a back-and-forth which can currently be found on pages 1,143 and 1,145 of the thread, Your latest purchase?. If that discussion may be of interest, see here * and here *. Realizing we are hijacking a legitimate for sale thread, one last snippet here.. Maybe a separate thread, if your interpretation and view changes when thinking about the image in terms of the more complete context it was often painted with - crosshairs, jet fighters, etc. : As someone who has never really seen eye to eye with organized religion, I quite like the brutal and direct nature of the print, while still allowing for more subtle interpretations. That said, it (and Christ with Shopping Bags) has never been allowed out of my basement studio by my wife... To my mind and eyes, that one is even worse. Just as a minor aside, I would respectfully challenge two of your references: (i) "more complete context"For me, the image with crosshairs and jet fighters is not necessarily more complete; it is just different. And conceptually less focused. Ban ksy made the work simpler as well as far stronger by subsequently concentrating on Mary (whose purported virgin status I would also challenge) and the wee baby Jesus (whose name makes me think that at least one of his parents may have been Latin American). (ii) "often painted with"This may be down to my own ignorance regarding the number of such pieces that were actually painted. Or just differences in our respective views about the meaning of "often". __________ You mention "the brutal and direct nature" of the Virgin Mary print. I would add "obvious" or "sixth-form level" in concept. As for Christ with Shopping Bags, I see that piece as being on a completely different level. Still brutal and direct, but also a great work of art. And arguably reminiscent of some of the most memorable graphic imagery by Peter Kennard.
|
|
|
met
Junior Member
Posts • 2,782
Likes • 6,706
June 2009
|
Banksy Toxic Mary, Virgin Mary Print, by met on Jan 30, 2023 18:11:37 GMT 1, I'd be curious to see a Pictures On Walls print that is blindstamped, but with the edition number nevertheless added outside of the stamp. Would you have an image you could share? Of course you would have to ask! Do the Trolley prints with both the heavy weaponry and classic POW stamps count? Let me look around - I know there are "Laugh Now" and other APs out there with numbers outside the stamp, but may have to hunt around for a "standard edition". I have seen them. My challenge for the day.
Not to worry. Thought you might have an image to hand, but no need to spend any significant time searching.
I suspect some might well exist, but have never seen one myself with either the Pictures On Walls Dot Com or the later P.O.W. Printmaking stamps.
Around the period the blindstamp was first introduced, one could envisage a situation where:
(i) the edition number was applied first, possibly due to the person being in automaton mode and momentarily forgetful about the then-recent policy change; and
(ii) upon realisation of their omission, applying the blindstamp afterwards, but elsewhere on the print (i.e. not wanting to risk going off-centre and mistakingly embossing over the number itself, as opposed to around it).
I'd be curious to see a Pictures On Walls print that is blindstamped, but with the edition number nevertheless added outside of the stamp. Would you have an image you could share? Of course you would have to ask! Do the Trolley prints with both the heavy weaponry and classic POW stamps count? Let me look around - I know there are "Laugh Now" and other APs out there with numbers outside the stamp, but may have to hunt around for a "standard edition". I have seen them. My challenge for the day. Not to worry. Thought you might have an image to hand, but no need to spend any significant time searching. I suspect some might well exist, but have never seen one myself with either the Pictures On Walls Dot Com or the later P.O.W. Printmaking stamps. Around the period the blindstamp was first introduced, one could envisage a situation where: (i) the edition number was applied first, possibly due to the person being in automaton mode and momentarily forgetful about the then-recent policy change; and (ii) upon realisation of their omission, applying the blindstamp afterwards, but elsewhere on the print (i.e. not wanting to risk going off-centre and mistakingly embossing over the number itself, as opposed to around it).
|
|
met
Junior Member
Posts • 2,782
Likes • 6,706
June 2009
|
Banksy Toxic Mary, Virgin Mary Print, by met on Jan 30, 2023 17:32:06 GMT 1, I realized that POW was a fly by night operation but didn't know there was so much variability. Thanks for clarifying. GLWTS mission. This is banksy at his best imo
Inconceivable!
Mandy Patinkin in The Princess Bride (1987) - uploaded by MrJeffooie
I've expressed my criticism about Virgin Mary / Toxic Mary in the past, and remain critical of the image.
In one instance, this led to what I consider an insightful exchange of views with @badrobot and sommguy — a back-and-forth which can currently be found on pages 1,143 and 1,145 of the thread, Your latest purchase?.
If that discussion may be of interest, see here* and here*.
I realized that POW was a fly by night operation but didn't know there was so much variability. Thanks for clarifying. GLWTS mission. This is banksy at his best imo Inconceivable!Mandy Patinkin in The Princess Bride (1987)- uploaded by MrJeffooieI've expressed my criticism about Virgin Mary / Toxic Mary in the past, and remain critical of the image. In one instance, this led to what I consider an insightful exchange of views with @ badrobot and sommguy — a back-and-forth which can currently be found on pages 1,143 and 1,145 of the thread, Your latest purchase?. If that discussion may be of interest, see here * and here *.
|
|
met
Junior Member
Posts • 2,782
Likes • 6,706
June 2009
|
Banksy Toxic Mary, Virgin Mary Print, by met on Jan 30, 2023 16:45:00 GMT 1, Strange. mine is stamped/numbered in opposite side Not unusual or strange at all for these (or most) prints. They were done individually when sold/sent rather than batch processing...so no rhyme or reason to any of it. Left, right, both...sometimes edition number over/under, sometimes side-by-side... sometimes numbered in stamp sometimes not...
I'd be curious to see a Pictures On Walls print that is blindstamped, but with the edition number nevertheless added outside of the stamp.
Would you have an image you could share?
Strange. mine is stamped/numbered in opposite side Not unusual or strange at all for these (or most) prints. They were done individually when sold/sent rather than batch processing...so no rhyme or reason to any of it. Left, right, both...sometimes edition number over/under, sometimes side-by-side... sometimes numbered in stamp sometimes not...I'd be curious to see a Pictures On Walls print that is blindstamped, but with the edition number nevertheless added outside of the stamp. Would you have an image you could share?
|
|
met
Junior Member
Posts • 2,782
Likes • 6,706
June 2009
|
Which artist created this?, by met on Jan 27, 2023 18:17:08 GMT 1,
Google suggests the work is by a pro-Trump, Banksy and Shepard Fairey fan — a Panamanian designer based in North Carolina, called Franklin Sullivan, a.k.a. Enoshdesigns.
Those interested can fill their boots at Red Bubble, with "Commie Biden" posters and all the rest:
www.redbubble.com/people/Enoshdesigns/shop
Google suggests the work is by a pro-Trump, Ban ksy and She pard Fai rey fan — a Panamanian designer based in North Carolina, called Franklin Sullivan, a.k.a. Enoshdesigns. Those interested can fill their boots at Red Bubble, with "Commie Biden" posters and all the rest: www.redbubble.com/people/Enoshdesigns/shop
|
|
met
Junior Member
Posts • 2,782
Likes • 6,706
June 2009
|
Is this a Hirst? , by met on Jan 21, 2023 17:52:43 GMT 1, Im helping sell a members collection who passed away, and have found this, i guess thats a hirst sig although it looks odd to me. D looks like an R and the T is missing? Just figured someone here with more Hirst knowledge than me (this is not a high bar! One thing i do know, is my signed coke can burst and ruined a bunch of stuff on my shelves! Nice one Damo.) could help.
Ignore the blurred image of the signature for a moment, and consider the image itself.
It just does not approach any of Damien Hirst's multiple styles.
This is an edition by the Australian photographer, Peter Lik — called Pristine Waters.
Im helping sell a members collection who passed away, and have found this, i guess thats a hirst sig although it looks odd to me. D looks like an R and the T is missing? Just figured someone here with more Hirst knowledge than me (this is not a high bar! One thing i do know, is my signed coke can burst and ruined a bunch of stuff on my shelves! Nice one Damo.) could help. Ignore the blurred image of the signature for a moment, and consider the image itself. It just does not approach any of Dam ien Hi rst's multiple styles. This is an edition by the Australian photographer, Peter Lik — called Pristine Waters.
|
|
met
Junior Member
Posts • 2,782
Likes • 6,706
June 2009
|
Recommendations For Shipping High End Art In The US, by met on Jan 20, 2023 1:48:43 GMT 1, So I need to ship a piece within the US valued at $15,000 and have never sent anything that expensive before. I've been trying to make sense of the max amount I can insure a package for via FedEx or UPS and it seems like neither come close to $15k. Can anyone recommend how to do it, perhaps alternative shipping companies? I don't want it to end up damaged (though it is packed pretty bulletproof) or have it turn up missing and be left having to reimburse the buyer.
1. NB: Even if you fully insure, note that a large proportion of courier companies specifically exclude liability in connection with artwork (loss, damage, or destruction thereof).
They will of course take your money, plus any extra for the insurance cover. But if a problem later arises and you then file a claim, it is at that moment they will point you to the relevant exclusion clause in the fine print of their contract.
In short, read with due care any shipping agreement you enter into. And if you cannot be bothered, stick with shippers that specialise in transporting fine art and antiques.
2. If you're based in Tennessee, see what pops up when you Google "art shippers Tennessee".
Then pick up the phone and make a few calls, ensuring you have to hand the dimensions and weight of your parcel, along with the collection address, destination address, and a list of special requirements you may have — including insurance, your preferred timetable and, if needed, the construction of a bespoke crate.
3. Get in touch with museums and high-end art galleries in your city or state. Ask them whom they use/recommend for transporting artwork.
4. Consider the alternative option of getting your buyer to arrange for the collection and shipment of the artwork with a shipper they have confidence in. You could even offer them a small discount in the purchase price for their troubles.
If anything then goes awry during the shipping process, it will be the buyer's responsibility, not yours — since the transfer of risk will have occurred at the moment when the buyer's shippers removed the artwork from your premises (perhaps after having first inspected the art for any damage).
5. Good luck.
So I need to ship a piece within the US valued at $15,000 and have never sent anything that expensive before. I've been trying to make sense of the max amount I can insure a package for via FedEx or UPS and it seems like neither come close to $15k. Can anyone recommend how to do it, perhaps alternative shipping companies? I don't want it to end up damaged (though it is packed pretty bulletproof) or have it turn up missing and be left having to reimburse the buyer. 1. NB: Even if you fully insure, note that a large proportion of courier companies specifically exclude liability in connection with artwork (loss, damage, or destruction thereof). They will of course take your money, plus any extra for the insurance cover. But if a problem later arises and you then file a claim, it is at that moment they will point you to the relevant exclusion clause in the fine print of their contract. In short, read with due care any shipping agreement you enter into. And if you cannot be bothered, stick with shippers that specialise in transporting fine art and antiques. 2. If you're based in Tennessee, see what pops up when you Google "art shippers Tennessee". Then pick up the phone and make a few calls, ensuring you have to hand the dimensions and weight of your parcel, along with the collection address, destination address, and a list of special requirements you may have — including insurance, your preferred timetable and, if needed, the construction of a bespoke crate. 3. Get in touch with museums and high-end art galleries in your city or state. Ask them whom they use/recommend for transporting artwork. 4. Consider the alternative option of getting your buyer to arrange for the collection and shipment of the artwork with a shipper they have confidence in. You could even offer them a small discount in the purchase price for their troubles. If anything then goes awry during the shipping process, it will be the buyer's responsibility, not yours — since the transfer of risk will have occurred at the moment when the buyer's shippers removed the artwork from your premises (perhaps after having first inspected the art for any damage). 5. Good luck.
|
|
met
Junior Member
Posts • 2,782
Likes • 6,706
June 2009
|
Banksy Welcome Mat, by met on Jan 15, 2023 17:36:29 GMT 1, Had mine listed at 1.2k on eBay… Someone bought it 1hr ago. Cancelling it now. Douche move. Some people word/reputation ain't worth much i guess. Thanks for letting us know though
Given the jokey, boastful tone, I'm guessing moe was only kidding.
[It would be a little too bizarre if anyone genuinely advertised their lack of integrity in such a manner.
That's akin to somebody bragging about their own impotence.]
Had mine listed at 1.2k on eBay… Someone bought it 1hr ago. Cancelling it now. Douche move. Some people word/reputation ain't worth much i guess. Thanks for letting us know though Given the jokey, boastful tone, I'm guessing moe was only kidding. [It would be a little too bizarre if anyone genuinely advertised their lack of integrity in such a manner.
That's akin to somebody bragging about their own impotence.]
|
|
met
Junior Member
Posts • 2,782
Likes • 6,706
June 2009
|
The Best Film Ever, by met on Jan 14, 2023 15:12:54 GMT 1, The Killing of a Chinese Bookie by John Cassavetes
Cheers for posting.
Brings back memories of an old friend with whom I've lost contact — a huge fan of Cassavetes.
The music commencing at 0:31 was also of interest.
My estimation for Black Rebel Motorcycle Club has consequently taken a slight hit. Especially given the lack of attribution or reference to anyone but the band in the writing credits for the song below.
Black Rebel Motorcycle Club - Spread Your Love (2001) - uploaded by Black Rebel Motorcycle Club
The Killing of a Chinese Bookie by John Cassavetes Cheers for posting. Brings back memories of an old friend with whom I've lost contact — a huge fan of Cassavetes. The music commencing at 0:31 was also of interest. My estimation for Black Rebel Motorcycle Club has consequently taken a slight hit. Especially given the lack of attribution or reference to anyone but the band in the writing credits for the song below. Black Rebel Motorcycle Club - Spread Your Love (2001)- uploaded by Black Rebel Motorcycle Club
|
|
|
met
Junior Member
Posts • 2,782
Likes • 6,706
June 2009
|
Artists You Might Not Know, by met on Jan 13, 2023 0:43:25 GMT 1, Today I would like to introduce Chinese artist CHENG ZHE. He just had his first solo show in Germany, after having a solo show in Ho ng Ko ng earlier in 2022. Cheng Zhe was born in Heilongjiang Province, China in 1985. Today he lives and works as an artist in Qingdao, Shandong, China. He completed his art studies with a focus on oil painting at the Xu Beihong's Studios of the Central Academy of Fine Arts, graduating in 2004. Cheng Zhe is strongly influenced by his surroundings. After the birth of his daughter, he developed his initially very traditional and academic style of painting in the direction of a contemporary and uncomparable painting style. With his pictures, Cheng Zhe also conveys a sign of charity, trust and confidence and would like to share it with all of us in his own way. I like his works very much and we already bought some works. Instagram artist: chengzhe85 Instagram gallery: yotomyartgallery
Thank you for posting. I had never previously heard of Cheng Zhe.
But after doing some online research, I am left impressed by the prolificness of this artist. Looks like he's been releasing work since the 1980s — including under a Japanese pseudonym, which I assume may be for local marketing reasons.
It would be interesting to learn more about the surroundings that are such strong influences on Cheng's uncomparable painting style.
Below are some of his other pieces that caught my eye.
Today I would like to introduce Chinese artist CHENG ZHE. He just had his first solo show in Germany, after having a solo show in Ho ng Ko ng earlier in 2022. Cheng Zhe was born in Heilongjiang Province, China in 1985. Today he lives and works as an artist in Qingdao, Shandong, China. He completed his art studies with a focus on oil painting at the Xu Beihong's Studios of the Central Academy of Fine Arts, graduating in 2004. Cheng Zhe is strongly influenced by his surroundings. After the birth of his daughter, he developed his initially very traditional and academic style of painting in the direction of a contemporary and uncomparable painting style. With his pictures, Cheng Zhe also conveys a sign of charity, trust and confidence and would like to share it with all of us in his own way. I like his works very much and we already bought some works. Instagram artist: chengzhe85 Instagram gallery: yotomyartgallery Thank you for posting. I had never previously heard of Cheng Zhe. But after doing some online research, I am left impressed by the prolificness of this artist. Looks like he's been releasing work since the 1980s — including under a Japanese pseudonym, which I assume may be for local marketing reasons. It would be interesting to learn more about the surroundings that are such strong influences on Cheng's uncomparable painting style. Below are some of his other pieces that caught my eye.
|
|
met
Junior Member
Posts • 2,782
Likes • 6,706
June 2009
|
Paco Pomet 🇪🇸 Granada, Spain • New Paintings , by met on Jan 11, 2023 21:23:29 GMT 1, Thanks for sharing those pics met, a lot I haven’t seen before, but like you I love the colours used, but also the whimsical side to the pieces. I almost see some Dali crossed with Norman Rockwell in his works. So glad I came across him.
No worries, Wanchope.
And just a smidgen of friendly teasing on my part.
Do check out the American artist, Mark Tansey.
Thanks for sharing those pics met, a lot I haven’t seen before, but like you I love the colours used, but also the whimsical side to the pieces. I almost see some Dali crossed with Norman Rockwell in his works. So glad I came across him. No worries, Wanchope. And just a smidgen of friendly teasing on my part. Do check out the American artist, Mark Tansey.
|
|
met
Junior Member
Posts • 2,782
Likes • 6,706
June 2009
|
Paco Pomet 🇪🇸 Granada, Spain • New Paintings , by met on Jan 11, 2023 18:21:06 GMT 1, Damn I love this print and I keep finding more and more of paco’s pieces and I’m stunned at the skills and complete unique style! Will be getting mine framed too!!
Indeed, Paco Pomet's work is rather distinctive.
I am a fan of the artist's pared-down, often-monochromatic palette.
Likewise with his choices of imagery:
- frequent references or allusions to bygone days; - thoughtful explorations of the surreal, the uncanny, the absurd; and - an embrace of whimsy and humour.
It is perhaps the latter, knowingly playful nature of Pomet's art that I appreciate most.
There is always more fun to be had when we retain our sense of playfulness.
Damn I love this print and I keep finding more and more of paco’s pieces and I’m stunned at the skills and complete unique style! Will be getting mine framed too!! Indeed, Paco Pomet's work is rather distinctive. I am a fan of the artist's pared-down, often-monochromatic palette. Likewise with his choices of imagery: - frequent references or allusions to bygone days; - thoughtful explorations of the surreal, the uncanny, the absurd; and - an embrace of whimsy and humour. It is perhaps the latter, knowingly playful nature of Po met's art that I appreciate most. There is always more fun to be had when we retain our sense of playfulness.
|
|
met
Junior Member
Posts • 2,782
Likes • 6,706
June 2009
|
Kaws Companion Figures, by met on Jan 10, 2023 13:46:52 GMT 1, (Not hating, this just made me laugh)
Very good.
But no real need to reference grandkids, or the future more generally.
Because this isn't so far off from how a number of us already view today many KAWS toy and Be@rbrick collections.
[Apologies to anyone who's upset by the term "toy". I appreciate some will insist on alternative descriptors, like "figure", "figurine", or even "sculpture".]
The above photo shows obvious attention and pride which has gone into building and displaying the collection. Similar to what we see with many KAWS toy collections.
What it may lack however is the not-uncommon air of collector smugness.
That latter sense is perhaps better illustrated by images of Dan Knowlton with his Cabbage Patch Kids:
__________
More basic questions for us, as art enthusiasts, to keep asking ourselves whenever we consider a potential purchase:
(i) Why exactly do I like this?
(ii) Or, if the answer is different, Why exactly do I want to acquire this?
(iii) What makes this interesting — conceptually, technically, aesthetically or otherwise?
(iv) To what extent am I perhaps behaving like a sheep or a lemming, coveting a piece, not necessarily because it's artistically any good, but mainly because it is currently sought-after and deemed valuable by other collectors or institutions?
(v) To what extent am I possibly being driven by prestige-enhancement and social-currency considerations, as opposed to a simpler desire to own great art?
Answering such questions can allow each of us to be more truthful with ourselves.
This may help to distinguish and assess the respective weight we give to different facets of our nature.
For example:
A. the collector side, where emphasis lies on rarity, financial value and prestige;
versus
B. the art enthusiast side, focused more on the artistic merits of the art itself.
(Not hating, this just made me laugh) Very good. But no real need to reference grandkids, or the future more generally. Because this isn't so far off from how a number of us already view today many KAWS toy and Be@rbrick collections. [Apologies to anyone who's upset by the term "toy". I appreciate some will insist on alternative descriptors, like "figure", "figurine", or even "sculpture".]The above photo shows obvious attention and pride which has gone into building and displaying the collection. Similar to what we see with many KA WS toy collections. What it may lack however is the not-uncommon air of collector smugness. That latter sense is perhaps better illustrated by images of Dan Knowlton with his Cabbage Patch Kids: __________ More basic questions for us, as art enthusiasts, to keep asking ourselves whenever we consider a potential purchase: (i) Why exactly do I like this?(ii) Or, if the answer is different, Why exactly do I want to acquire this?(iii) What makes this interesting — conceptually, technically, aesthetically or otherwise?(iv) To what extent am I perhaps behaving like a sheep or a lemming, coveting a piece, not necessarily because it's artistically any good, but mainly because it is currently sought-after and deemed valuable by other collectors or institutions?(v) To what extent am I possibly being driven by prestige-enhancement and social-currency considerations, as opposed to a simpler desire to own great art?Answering such questions can allow each of us to be more truthful with ourselves. This may help to distinguish and assess the respective weight we give to different facets of our nature. For example: A. the collector side, where emphasis lies on rarity, financial value and prestige; versusB. the art enthusiast side, focused more on the artistic merits of the art itself.
|
|
met
Junior Member
Posts • 2,782
Likes • 6,706
June 2009
|
New here - who are the popular artists?, by met on Jan 8, 2023 15:24:12 GMT 1, Hello to all! As the subject mentions, I’m new to these parts and would love some feedback on who the consensus popular artists are on these forums. The top 5 to 10 artists maybe? I’d very much appreciate it. Thanks.
If the objective is to one day find your own vision, then a shift in mindset may be required.
Your current approach seems to be that of a follower. Someone looking to buy with their ears.
But sheep are never great collectors. And they're always most vulnerable to the ubiquitous manipulators, keen to exploit the easily-led and uninformed.
Such a path can lead to a home filled with the likes of Mr. Brainwash, Martin Whatson, Mason Storm, JJ Adams, the Connor Brothers, and other impostors whose works may turn into embarrassments as you start to become more savvy and discerning — i.e. someone able, almost instinctively, to distinguish the innovative from the hackneyed or trite.
__________
Be exceptionally wary during the early years of your journey as an art collector. This is quite often a perfect-storm confluence period of (a) high enthusiasm / puppy-dog excitement, (b) recklessness, and (c) nescience.
It is a time when you are likely to make the greatest number of mistakes. And potentially very expensive ones.
My best advice to someone new is twofold:
1. Exercise self-discipline, restraint and patience, by not purchasing anything for at least a year.
2. Resist the temptation to be lazy. Avoid falling back on the self-limiting, and ultimately self-defeating, "I like what I know".
Use this interval year instead to:
(i) experience more art first-hand, in order to train your eye — by being proactive and visiting as many museums as possible, along with art biennials, art fairs, art festivals, galleries, auction house viewings, street art hubs, student degree shows, and artist studios;
(ii) keep asking yourself (and keep answering) the most basic of questions, such as:
- Why exactly is this piece any good?
- What makes it interesting?
- What are its weaknesses, conceptually or technically?
- To what extent is this idea, theme, subject matter, style or technique just a rehash of what has already been done ad nauseam by other artists?;
(iii) invest in acquiring and reading far, far more books;
(iv) seek out art programmes, documentaries, films, panel discussions, debates, and art-show reviews; and
(v) generally put in the time and hard work to make yourself more educated than the average dealer who's looking for their next mark — whether this learning is about the art-historical canon, art criticism, artistic mediums and techniques, or the art market.
You will be rewarded for your efforts. And the efforts alone are likely to be rewarding, if not enjoyable.
Among other things, the above tips should help you to avoid a couple of undesirable outcomes:
First, too frequently being a patsy to random salespeople.
Second, turning into one of these insular "urban art" fans who have been collecting for two decades, know almost everything there is to know within their comfort zone, and yet remain tragically clueless about any art movement prior to the 1950s.
The following thread started in 2016 contains additional recommendations you may find useful, ADVICE FOR NEW COLLECTORS:
urbanartassociation.com/thread/141059/advice-new-collectors
__________
To illustrate what passion, dedication and thoughtfulness can achieve, check out the posts by Feral Things, which have consistently inspired me, even pushing me to up my own game.
[And if this member had a Martin Whatson, Gonefellow, Ted Patrick or Bambi in their art collection, I would eat my hat.]
Sadly, they haven't been active here since 2016, which I consider a grave loss to the forum:
urbanartassociation.com/user/12704/recent
__________
If people are using this thread for deciding who to collect (or flip), I would be very wary of doing so. Some of the names mentioned are very much on their way down now and others are simply artists jumping on the latest bandwagon. This fo rum is a bit of a bubble. Most galleries wouldn't consider selling anything by these artists - and for good reason. As always, buy what you like, not what other people are buying. 100% agreed with the “buy what you like” mantra. Words to live by in any of the collector circles.
At least for novices who are often impatient and overly keen on building their art collections quickly, I take the view that, unless qualified, the above mantra is terribly flawed.
Prioritising buying over knowledge and acumen sounds like a recipe for future tears. Again, one can imagine homes filled with works by Mr. Brainwash — in all of their unapologetically vacuous, formulaic and derivative mawkishness.
A few more contrived paint splatters and drips around Charlie Chaplin? Yes, please! Let's include Albert Einstein too. Along with Marilyn Monroe, of course. And a happy chimpanzee, spraypainting "Follow Your Dreams".
Ooh, baby, now that's what I call ART!
Below is a 2015 thread that might also be of interest, JJ Adams Muhammad Ali:
urbanartassociation.com/thread/132009/jj-adams-muhammad-ali
And here is an extract from a post therein, relating to how our tastes can change, sometimes dramatically, as we become increasingly well-versed and rounded as collectors:
[...] One of the exciting things for me is reconsidering and re-evaluating work I initially liked or disliked. For example, art I may have found incredibly attractive when first viewed in a vacuum, in isolation, quickly loses its appeal if I later discover that the style or underlying concept plagiarises or is too similar to the work of artistic predecessors. Now, as a collector, if — in a prior state of beautiful and blissful ignorance — I had originally spent £50 on such derivative art (perhaps heeding the often thought-terminating and mantra-like, clichéd advice of "Buy what you like!"), I would simply laugh this off and put it down as a learning experience. A little embarrassing, but just one those commonplace things; no real harm done. On the other hand, if I had originally spent £500 or £5,000 on such derivative art, you can bet that I'd be cursing myself for having been an easily-led moron. [...]
__________
Happy New Year. And good luck with the adventures that await you.
Hello to all! As the subject mentions, I’m new to these parts and would love some feedback on who the consensus popular artists are on these forums. The top 5 to 10 artists maybe? I’d very much appreciate it. Thanks. If the objective is to one day find your own vision, then a shift in mindset may be required. Your current approach seems to be that of a follower. Someone looking to buy with their ears. But sheep are never great collectors. And they're always most vulnerable to the ubiquitous manipulators, keen to exploit the easily-led and uninformed. Such a path can lead to a home filled with the likes of Mr. Brainwash, Martin Whatson, Mason Storm, JJ Adams, the Connor Brothers, and other impostors whose works may turn into embarrassments as you start to become more savvy and discerning — i.e. someone able, almost instinctively, to distinguish the innovative from the hackneyed or trite. __________ Be exceptionally wary during the early years of your journey as an art collector. This is quite often a perfect-storm confluence period of (a) high enthusiasm / puppy-dog excitement, (b) recklessness, and (c) nescience. It is a time when you are likely to make the greatest number of mistakes. And potentially very expensive ones. My best advice to someone new is twofold:1. Exercise self-discipline, restraint and patience, by not purchasing anything for at least a year. 2. Resist the temptation to be lazy. Avoid falling back on the self-limiting, and ultimately self-defeating, "I like what I know". Use this interval year instead to: (i) experience more art first-hand, in order to train your eye — by being proactive and visiting as many museums as possible, along with art biennials, art fairs, art festivals, galleries, auction house viewings, str eet art hubs, student degree shows, and artist studios; (ii) keep asking yourself (and keep answering) the most basic of questions, such as: - Why exactly is this piece any good? - What makes it interesting? - What are its weaknesses, conceptually or technically? - To what extent is this idea, theme, subject matter, style or technique just a rehash of what has already been done ad nauseam by other artists?; (iii) invest in acquiring and reading far, far more books; (iv) seek out art programmes, documentaries, films, panel discussions, debates, and art-show reviews; and (v) generally put in the time and hard work to make yourself more educated than the average dealer who's looking for their next mark — whether this learning is about the art-historical canon, art criticism, artistic mediums and techniques, or the art market. You will be rewarded for your efforts. And the efforts alone are likely to be rewarding, if not enjoyable. Among other things, the above tips should help you to avoid a couple of undesirable outcomes: First, too frequently being a patsy to random salespeople. Second, turning into one of these insular "ur ban art" fans who have been collecting for two decades, know almost everything there is to know within their comfort zone, and yet remain tragically clueless about any art movement prior to the 1950s. The following thread started in 2016 contains additional recommendations you may find useful, ADVICE FOR NEW COLLECTORS: urbanartassociation.com/thread/141059/advice-new-collectors__________ To illustrate what passion, dedication and thoughtfulness can achieve, check out the posts by Feral Things, which have consistently inspired me, even pushing me to up my own game. [And if this member had a Martin Whatson, Gonefellow, Ted Patrick or Bambi in their art collection, I would eat my hat.]Sadly, they haven't been active here since 2016, which I consider a grave loss to the for um: urbanartassociation.com/user/12704/recent__________ If people are using this thread for deciding who to collect (or flip), I would be very wary of doing so. Some of the names mentioned are very much on their way down now and others are simply artists jumping on the latest bandwagon. This fo rum is a bit of a bubble. Most galleries wouldn't consider selling anything by these artists - and for good reason. As always, buy what you like, not what other people are buying. 100% agreed with the “buy what you like” mantra. Words to live by in any of the collector circles.At least for novices who are often impatient and overly keen on building their art collections quickly, I take the view that, unless qualified, the above mantra is terribly flawed. Prioritising buying over knowledge and acumen sounds like a recipe for future tears. Again, one can imagine homes filled with works by Mr. Brain wash — in all of their unapologetically vacuous, formulaic and derivative mawkishness. A few more contrived paint splatters and drips around Charlie Chaplin? Yes, please! Let's include Albert Einstein too. Along with Marilyn Monroe, of course. And a happy chimpanzee, spraypainting "Follow Your Dreams".
Ooh, baby, now that's what I call ART!Below is a 2015 thread that might also be of interest, JJ Adams Muhammad Ali: urbanartassociation.com/thread/132009/jj-adams-muhammad-aliAnd here is an extract from a post therein, relating to how our tastes can change, sometimes dramatically, as we become increasingly well-versed and rounded as collectors: [...] One of the exciting things for me is reconsidering and re-evaluating work I initially liked or disliked. For example, art I may have found incredibly attractive when first viewed in a vacuum, in isolation, quickly loses its appeal if I later discover that the style or underlying concept plagiarises or is too similar to the work of artistic predecessors. Now, as a collector, if — in a prior state of beautiful and blissful ignorance — I had originally spent £50 on such derivative art (perhaps heeding the often thought-terminating and mantra-like, clichéd advice of "Buy what you like!"), I would simply laugh this off and put it down as a learning experience. A little embarrassing, but just one those commonplace things; no real harm done. On the other hand, if I had originally spent £500 or £5,000 on such derivative art, you can bet that I'd be cursing myself for having been an easily-led moron. [...] __________ Happy New Year. And good luck with the adventures that await you.
|
|
met
Junior Member
Posts • 2,782
Likes • 6,706
June 2009
|
Banksy • frAGILE • Legacy of War Foundation , by met on Dec 20, 2022 5:43:41 GMT 1, A game for art enthusiasts wishing to hone their observational and reasoning skills would be the following: Spot the multiple tells. Please tell the tells .. show me what you are seeing. Thank you.
Okay.
Lots of writing required, but I'll play the professor. It's a good contrast to my more natural, real-life role as the blundering eternal student.
In our capacity as art fans, many of us probably like to view ourselves as thoughtful, perceptive and inquisitive.
And given that close to 36 hours have lapsed since my earlier post, those who wished to test themselves will have had over a day to do so, without a spoiler ruining the challenge.
__________
For the avoidance of doubt, by "tells", I was referring to the many clues indicating that red is one of the screenprinted colours of the Banksy artwork.
In other words, the piece was not made on the cut-out side of a cardboard box; it merely appears to have been.
This conclusion can be reached by using our eyes, logic, deduction and/or existing knowledge.
Regarding order of execution for the work's creation, I suspect it may have gone as follows:
(i) sheets of cardboard cut to the desired size;
(ii) the colour red screened first;
(iii) parcel tape added around the edges;
(iv) the remaining colours screened — black (possibly); brown; tan; silver grey; pale grey; white; and soft pink;
(v) vertical cuts made with a blade and straightedge over the letters F and R; and
(vi) the letters F and R, as well as parts of the cardboard and tape edges, roughed up and torn a bit, in a visually-pleasing way.
__________
As for actual CLUES, we have the luxury of being able to pick and choose:
1. Placement of the parcel tape
1.1 At first glance, the tape — along with the sheet of cardboard — looks as if it was originally from one side of a cardboard box, repurposed by Banksy to create a work of art.
But parcel tape isn't applied to a cardboard box in such a manner, i.e. in a square shape. Rather, it is just used over the flaps to seal the box, and sometimes also over the flap edges along the side.
For the artwork, the tape enhances its upcycled appearance and also has a framing purpose.
1.2 As an aside, consider the likelihood in practice of a warehouse employee actually applying parcel tape over, and therefore partly hiding, some of the packaging-box icons — being symbols whose sole function is to help minimise the risk of any damage occurring in transit to the contents of the box.
2. FRAGILE text
By way of preface, although plenty of stock illustrations can be found online, it is relatively uncommon for the Fragile warning to be printed so markedly (large scale and dead centre) on the sides of packaging boxes.
That said, the following applies to cases where conspicuous Fragile warning text does appear on boxes:
2.1 For message-reinforcement purposes, the Fragile warning is often accompanied by:
(i) complementary text (like Handle With Care); and/or
(ii) complementary packaging icons (such as the Handle With Care broken-wine-glass logo or the Keep Dry umbrella logo),
that have at least a comparable degree of prominence in terms of size and placement.
Banksy's piece doesn't really have these. The icons featured at the bottom-right seem too disproportionately modest in comparison to have come from an actual packaging box.
2.2 Again for message-reinforcement purposes, the Fragile warning would be in a chunkier, heavyset typeface.
Banksy's rather delicate letters do make sense for his artwork. This, for composition and balance reasons, because the emphasis needs to remain on the focal point — the white rat.
However, on a genuine packaging box, such finesse with the text would feel incongruous given its intended purpose.
2.3 The Fragile warning would be in a cleaner, more conventional typeface.
Banksy's Fragile letters are slightly distressed for aesthetic reasons.
But for the design of a real packaging box, such emphasis on aesthetics could be deemed unhelpful. It would risk detracting from the key objective, i.e. finding the most efficient way of clearly and immediately communicating a single message: The contents of this box are fragile.
3. Previous use of the FRAGILE text
Many Banksy aficionados will be aware the artist has form when it comes to the word Fragile, including on cardboard boxes.
In addition, spot some of the arguable similarities in typeface design:
4. Packaging icons at the bottom-right
4.1 Design
Examine a close-up of the icons, noting in particular their relatively rough execution:
This crudeness does have visual appeal, making it perfectly suitable for an artistic creation.
However, consider whether it would have passed any quality-control checks at a manufacturer responsible for mass-producing cardboard boxes for fragile goods.
4.2 Size
See the mismatch referred to in point 2.1(ii) above.
4.3 Placement
From a composition perspective, the icons look fine on the finished artwork.
But if they were on actual packaging boxes, their placement might seem a bit odd. I would expect them to be aligned more to the right.
4.4 Duplicate icons
Note the second icon with the arrow at the bottom-right — a symbol representing This Way Up or This Side Up. That icon also happens to be a pointless duplication of the larger double-arrow symbol already featured in Banksy's piece, along the top-left side.
This could easily have been an oversight by an artist creating new work on a substrate intended to resemble the side of a used cardboard box.
It seems doubtful, however, that a manufacturer of packaging boxes would have failed to immediately spot the redundancy.
5. Code number along the bottom-left side
While more of a side note than conclusive in itself, the decision by Banksy to add the faux-identification code (including the December 2022 date of creation) on a vertical plane looks to have been guided by aesthetics.
On genuine packaging boxes, I would usually expect identification codes to be printed on the same plane as all of the other text, numbers, icons or symbols (in this case, horizontally) — for consistency, improved reader-friendliness, and therefore effectiveness and suitability for purpose.
6. Practical considerations when creating editioned artworks
The Banksy piece is from an edition of 50. And, presumably, some APs and colour variants have also been created (perhaps including brown, grey and black rats). In terms of requisite organisation and materials, that is quite different to creating a one-off original.
Under such circumstances, query which alternative is more likely:
(a) the artist somehow got hold of loads and loads of used packaging boxes with highly-fortuitous "12/22" dates already printed on them; or
(b) the artist purchased widely-available sheets of plain cardboard, and then embellished them to resemble the cut-out sides of used packaging boxes.
__________
Now, a completely separate question would be, What should we make of the above?
Some individuals, especially those holding a grudge, may feel resentful about having been tricked. They're the kind who might get hung up over trivialities. For example, the date when the Girl With Balloon canvas, shredded at Sotheby's London in 2018, was actually painted.
That narrowness is most unfortunate. Because it completely misses the point.
For me, much of the beauty of Banksy's work lies with the element of illusion.
His skills of misdirection are part of a broader show for his audience. And they are integral to his performance as an artist.
A game for art enthusiasts wishing to hone their observational and reasoning skills would be the following: Spot the multiple tells. Please tell the tells .. show me what you are seeing. Thank you. Okay. Lots of writing required, but I'll play the professor. It's a good contrast to my more natural, real-life role as the blundering eternal student. In our capacity as art fans, many of us probably like to view ourselves as thoughtful, perceptive and inquisitive. And given that close to 36 hours have lapsed since my earlier post, those who wished to test themselves will have had over a day to do so, without a spoiler ruining the challenge. __________ For the avoidance of doubt, by "tells", I was referring to the many clues indicating that red is one of the screenprinted colours of the Ban ksy artwork. In other words, the piece was not made on the cut-out side of a cardboard box; it merely appears to have been. This conclusion can be reached by using our eyes, logic, deduction and/or existing knowledge. Regarding order of execution for the work's creation, I suspect it may have gone as follows: (i) sheets of cardboard cut to the desired size; (ii) the colour red screened first; (iii) parcel tape added around the edges; (iv) the remaining colours screened — black (possibly); brown; tan; silver grey; pale grey; white; and soft pink; (v) vertical cuts made with a blade and straightedge over the letters F and R; and (vi) the letters F and R, as well as parts of the cardboard and tape edges, roughed up and torn a bit, in a visually-pleasing way. __________ As for actual CLUES, we have the luxury of being able to pick and choose: 1. Placement of the parcel tape1.1 At first glance, the tape — along with the sheet of cardboard — looks as if it was originally from one side of a cardboard box, repurposed by Ban ksy to create a work of art. But parcel tape isn't applied to a cardboard box in such a manner, i.e. in a square shape. Rather, it is just used over the flaps to seal the box, and sometimes also over the flap edges along the side. For the artwork, the tape enhances its upcycled appearance and also has a framing purpose. 1.2 As an aside, consider the likelihood in practice of a warehouse employee actually applying parcel tape over, and therefore partly hiding, some of the packaging-box icons — being symbols whose sole function is to help minimise the risk of any damage occurring in transit to the contents of the box. 2. FRAGILE textBy way of prefa ce, although plenty of stock illustrations can be found online, it is relatively uncommon for the Fragile warning to be printed so markedly (large scale and dead centre) on the sides of packaging boxes. That said, the following applies to cases where conspicuous Fragile warning text does appear on boxes: 2.1 For message-reinforcement purposes, the Fragile warning is often accompanied by: (i) complementary text (like Handle With Care); and/or (ii) complementary packaging icons (such as the Handle With Care broken-wine-glass logo or the Keep Dry umbrella logo), that have at least a comparable degree of prominence in terms of size and placement. Ban ksy's piece doesn't really have these. The icons featured at the bottom-right seem too disproportionately modest in comparison to have come from an actual packaging box. 2.2 Again for message-reinforcement purposes, the Fragile warning would be in a chunkier, heavyset typefa ce. Ban ksy's rather delicate letters do make sense for his artwork. This, for composition and balance reasons, because the emphasis needs to remain on the focal point — the white rat. However, on a genuine packaging box, such finesse with the text would feel incongruous given its intended purpose. 2.3 The Fragile warning would be in a cleaner, more conventional typefa ce. Ban ksy's Fragile letters are slightly distressed for aesthetic reasons. But for the design of a real packaging box, such emphasis on aesthetics could be deemed unhelpful. It would risk detracting from the key objective, i.e. finding the most efficient way of clearly and immediately communicating a single message: The contents of this box are fragile.3. Previous use of the FRAGILE textMany Ban ksy aficionados will be aware the artist has form when it comes to the word Fragile, including on cardboard boxes. In addition, spot some of the arguable similarities in typeface design: 4. Packaging icons at the bottom-right4.1 Design Examine a close-up of the icons, noting in particular their relatively rough execution: This crudeness does have visual appeal, making it perfectly suitable for an artistic creation. However, consider whether it would have passed any quality-control checks at a manufacturer responsible for mass-producing cardboard boxes for fragile goods. 4.2 Size See the mismatch referred to in point 2.1(ii) above. 4.3 Placement From a composition perspective, the icons look fine on the finished artwork. But if they were on actual packaging boxes, their placement might seem a bit odd. I would expect them to be aligned more to the right. 4.4 Duplicate icons Note the second icon with the arrow at the bottom-right — a symbol representing This Way Up or This Side Up. That icon also happens to be a pointless duplication of the larger double-arrow symbol already featured in Ban ksy's piece, along the top-left side. This could easily have been an oversight by an artist creating new work on a substrate intended to resemble the side of a used cardboard box. It seems doubtful, however, that a manufacturer of packaging boxes would have failed to immediately spot the redundancy. 5. Code number along the bottom-left sideWhile more of a side note than conclusive in itself, the decision by Ban ksy to add the faux-identification code (including the December 2022 date of creation) on a vertical plane looks to have been guided by aesthetics. On genuine packaging boxes, I would usually expect identification codes to be printed on the same plane as all of the other text, numbers, icons or symbols (in this case, horizontally) — for consistency, improved reader-friendliness, and therefore effectiveness and suitability for purpose. 6. Practical considerations when creating editioned artworksThe Ban ksy piece is from an edition of 50. And, presumably, some APs and colour variants have also been created (perhaps including brown, grey and black rats). In terms of requisite organisation and materials, that is quite different to creating a one-off original. Under such circumstances, query which alternative is more likely: (a) the artist somehow got hold of loads and loads of used packaging boxes with highly-fortuitous "12/22" dates already printed on them; or (b) the artist purchased widely-available sheets of plain cardboard, and then embellished them to resemble the cut-out sides of used packaging boxes. __________ Now, a completely separate question would be, What should we make of the above?Some individuals, especially those holding a grudge, may feel resentful about having been tricked. They're the kind who might get hung up over trivialities. For example, the date when the Girl With Balloon canvas, shredded at So theby's Lon don in 2018, was actually painted. That narrowness is most unfortunate. Because it completely misses the point. For me, much of the beauty of Ban ksy's work lies with the element of illusion. His skills of misdirection are part of a broader show for his audience. And they are integral to his performance as an artist.
|
|
met
Junior Member
Posts • 2,782
Likes • 6,706
June 2009
|
Banksy • frAGILE • Legacy of War Foundation , by met on Dec 18, 2022 18:42:08 GMT 1, what is the significance #'s on the side. if it was a used box from some cheap ikea furniture it surely would not have the date of 12/22 "603825161"
As you've already indicated, the "12/22" is the date of creation of the piece.
Sadly, I am clueless about what the "603825161" means. Could be random, i.e. completely made up, just for the faux-packaging code. But it also wouldn't surprise me if this number (or a part thereof) were a nod by the artist to something more specific and elusive.
The reference to "a used box from some cheap ikea furniture" would be going off‑track, perhaps confusing intended appearances with reality.
Ceci n'est pas une pipe.
I'm still confused by this. Is it part of an actual cardboard box that has the screenprint image printed on top of it? Or is it a piece of thick card that has been printed to look as if it is part of a cardboard box?
What is heartening is that you've asked yourself these questions. Meaning you're curious. Paying attention, going beyond superficial glances, and considering the artwork itself — including its possible creation process.
My ever-so-slight disappointment comes from a (possibly unjustified) suspicion that, in the above respect, you are among a minority.
The red — used for the text, numbering and packaging icons — is one of the seven or eight screenprinted colours.
A game for art enthusiasts wishing to hone their observational and reasoning skills would be the following:
Spot the multiple tells.
what is the significance #'s on the side. if it was a used box from some cheap ikea furniture it surely would not have the date of 12/22 "603825161" As you've already indicated, the "12/22" is the date of creation of the piece. Sadly, I am clueless about what the "603825161" means. Could be random, i.e. completely made up, just for the faux-packaging code. But it also wouldn't surprise me if this number (or a part thereof) were a nod by the artist to something more specific and elusive. The reference to "a used box from some cheap ikea furniture" would be going off‑track, perhaps confusing intended appearances with reality. Ceci n'est pas une pipe.I'm still confused by this. Is it part of an actual cardboard box that has the screenprint image printed on top of it? Or is it a piece of thick card that has been printed to look as if it is part of a cardboard box? What is heartening is that you've asked yourself these questions. Meaning you're curious. Paying attention, going beyond superficial glances, and considering the artwork itself — including its possible creation process. My ever-so-slight disappointment comes from a (possibly unjustified) suspicion that, in the above respect, you are among a minority. The red — used for the text, numbering and packaging icons — is one of the seven or eight screenprinted colours. A game for art enthusiasts wishing to hone their observational and reasoning skills would be the following: Spot the multiple tells.
|
|
met
Junior Member
Posts • 2,782
Likes • 6,706
June 2009
|
Banksy • frAGILE • Legacy of War Foundation , by met on Dec 17, 2022 20:08:43 GMT 1, Isn't it a fancy rat? I'm a bit late to this thread and I must admit I'm a little bit unsure as to what to make of it really. How can they call it a screen print though? Seem more like originals to me or are the others going to be screen prints of this original maybe?I see very little discussion around context and meaning though. There has to be more to it than the whole fragile to agile word play, surely.
Banksy refers to these being "screenprints" because that is the primary medium. They are multiples (part of an edition), screenprinted on cardboard.
That said, there may well be a hint of knowing understatement on the artist's part — which is an aspect I also find appealing.
If others (e.g. a gallery or auction house) were offering one of these prints for sale, my guess is that, for marketing reasons, they would be far more inclined to embellish their descriptions.
Perhaps "Hand-finished, [seven / eight]-colour screenprint on mixed media" might encourage some of the persuadables among potential buyers to dig even deeper into their pockets.
[Spot the linguistic reference to a highly-recommended documentary, The Great Hack (2019).]
Isn't it a fancy rat? I'm a bit late to this thread and I must admit I'm a little bit unsure as to what to make of it really. How can they call it a screen print though? Seem more like originals to me or are the others going to be screen prints of this original maybe?I see very little discussion around context and meaning though. There has to be more to it than the whole fragile to agile word play, surely. Ban ksy refers to these being "screenprints" because that is the primary medium. They are multiples (part of an edition), screenprinted on cardboard. That said, there may well be a hint of knowing understatement on the artist's part — which is an aspect I also find appealing. If others (e.g. a gallery or auction house) were offering one of these prints for sale, my guess is that, for marketing reasons, they would be far more inclined to embellish their descriptions. Perhaps "Hand-finished, [seven / eight]-colour screenprint on mixed media" might encourage some of the persuadables among potential buyers to dig even deeper into their pockets. [Spot the linguistic reference to a highly-recommended documentary, The Great Hack (2019).]
|
|
|
met
Junior Member
Posts • 2,782
Likes • 6,706
June 2009
|
Banksy • frAGILE • Legacy of War Foundation , by met on Dec 17, 2022 1:16:42 GMT 1, its a bit strange as it says Registration ends on Friday 16th December @ 12pm GMT which is in 35 mins also its a very long shot but I would add shop@legacyofwarfoundation.co.uk as an email to my safe senders in the Ts and Cs this is the email mentioned so it may well come from there 12pm is midnight not noon. pm stands for 'post meridiem' meaning 12 hours 'after noon'.
Apologies in advance for labouring the point.
Since I take a keen interest in reasoning, it is difficult for me to resist offering some additional input.
Your argument is fair. But of course it also applies both ways.
1. We could indeed say that, because pm stands for post meridiem, then 12 pm means 12 hours after noon:
12 pm = midnight
2. However, we could just as equally say that, because am stands for ante meridiem, then 12 am means 12 hours before noon:
12 am = midnight
The above logic then leaves us with both 12 pm and 12 am having the same meaning — midnight.
One thing I suspect all of us can agree on is that it's preferable to avoid using "pm" and "am" when referring to noon or midnight.
its a bit strange as it says Registration ends on Friday 16th December @ 12pm GMT which is in 35 mins also its a very long shot but I would add shop@legacyofwarfoundation.co.uk as an email to my safe senders in the Ts and Cs this is the email mentioned so it may well come from there 12pm is midnight not noon. pm stands for 'post meridiem' meaning 12 hours 'after noon'. Apologies in advance for labouring the point. Since I take a keen interest in reasoning, it is difficult for me to resist offering some additional input. Your argument is fair. But of course it also applies both ways. 1. We could indeed say that, because pm stands for post meridiem, then 12 pm means 12 hours after noon: 12 pm = midnight2. However, we could just as equally say that, because am stands for ante meridiem, then 12 am means 12 hours before noon: 12 am = midnight The above logic then leaves us with both 12 pm and 12 am having the same meaning — midnight. One thing I suspect all of us can agree on is that it's preferable to avoid using "pm" and "am" when referring to noon or midnight.
|
|
met
Junior Member
Posts • 2,782
Likes • 6,706
June 2009
|
Banksy • Rodeo Girl • GIFT Print, by met on Dec 17, 2022 1:00:24 GMT 1, For me, there is no issue with such artwork. In the case of the Cans Festival piece from 2008, it is one artist, curator and organiser having dedicated a print to a fellow artist and event participant. I see that as having increased appeal due to its historical relevance. Here's a thought experiment for you: Would you feel equally ambivalent if offered a 1984 Jean‑Michel Bas quiat sketch that also had a dedication to his friend and mentor, Andy War hol? Yes. Yes I would. Fair enough, then.
This would be one area where our respective views as collectors differ.
All else being equal, I myself would consider a Basquiat sketch as having greater significance (and would therefore value it more highly) if it were dedicated to Warhol, as opposed to just being signed.
For me, there is no issue with such artwork. In the case of the Cans Festival piece from 2008, it is one artist, curator and organiser having dedicated a print to a fellow artist and event participant. I see that as having increased appeal due to its historical relevance. Here's a thought experiment for you: Would you feel equally ambivalent if offered a 1984 Jean‑Michel Bas quiat sketch that also had a dedication to his friend and mentor, Andy War hol? Yes. Yes I would. Fair enough, then. This would be one area where our respective views as collectors differ. All else being equal, I myself would consider a Bas quiat sketch as having greater significance (and would therefore value it more highly) if it were dedicated to War hol, as opposed to just being signed.
|
|
met
Junior Member
Posts • 2,782
Likes • 6,706
June 2009
|
Banksy • Rodeo Girl • GIFT Print, by met on Dec 16, 2022 23:57:27 GMT 1, These are fantastic. I just can't get past them being dedicated to someone else 🤷🏼♂️
For me, there is no issue with such artwork.
In the case of the Cans Festival piece from 2008, it is one artist, curator and organiser having dedicated a print to a fellow artist and event participant. I see that as having increased appeal due to its historical relevance.
Here's a thought experiment for you:
Would you feel equally ambivalent if offered a 1984 Jean‑Michel Basquiat sketch that also had a dedication to his friend and mentor, Andy Warhol?
These are fantastic. I just can't get past them being dedicated to someone else 🤷🏼♂️ For me, there is no issue with such artwork. In the case of the Cans Festival piece from 2008, it is one artist, curator and organiser having dedicated a print to a fellow artist and event participant. I see that as having increased appeal due to its historical relevance. Here's a thought experiment for you: Would you feel equally ambivalent if offered a 1984 Jean‑Michel Bas quiat sketch that also had a dedication to his friend and mentor, Andy War hol?
|
|
met
Junior Member
Posts • 2,782
Likes • 6,706
June 2009
|
Banksy • frAGILE • Legacy of War Foundation , by met on Dec 16, 2022 23:26:31 GMT 1, its a bit strange as it says Registration ends on Friday 16th December @ 12pm GMT which is in 35 mins also its a very long shot but I would add shop@legacyofwarfoundation.co.uk as an email to my safe senders in the Ts and Cs this is the email mentioned so it may well come from there 12pm is midnight not noon. pm stands for 'post meridiem' meaning 12 hours 'after noon'. Technically that’s incorrect. At 12 noon the sun is directly over the meridian and is therefore neither ante nor post meridian. Same at midnight. It’s therefore 12 noon or 12 midnight. 12.01am is early morning and 12.01pm is early afternoon. When people say 12pm what they are really saying is 12 hours after the meridiem. The meridiem is when the sun is directly overhead, i.e. at noon. So 12pm is midnight. However, this does cause huge confusion so websites should never use 12am and 12pm but stick to saying 'noon' or 'midnight'. Or another way round it is to make the cut-off time 11:59 am or pm to avoid any confusion.
Hmm 12pm is midday to all intents and purposes It isn't. I don't know why people are liking your post. If people think 12pm is midday then they are wrong. Check what pm means. Don't take my word for it; look it up yourself. They're liking it because you're in the minority. 12pm is midday. Deal with it. I may be in the minority...but I'm still right. As I said before; look up what am and pm means. It's not rocket science.
Good exchange.
Despite the relative triviality of the subject, this is the kind of debate I do find engaging. Hair-splitting and pedantry on non‑commercial matters is far less tedious to me than reading a stream of self-interested posts about the latest auction results for Thierry Noir.
Leaving aside one moment what is technically accurate, convention must also be considered — i.e. what most people actually mean when they use certain words and expressions.
There are clearly different usages between various groups of individuals, which can sometimes be explained by generational, geographical, cultural or social differences. But at least among my own peers, if somebody suggests, "Let's meet at 12 pm", they usually mean, "Let's meet at 12 noon."
Cheers for the helpful link.
This was also the first website I found when Googling "12 pm noon or midnight", to make sure I really did know what I was talking about before posting.
Excerpt:
What does am and pm mean?
The 12-hour clock divides the 24-hour day into two periods.
- am stands for the Latin ante meridiem, translating to "before midday". This is the time before the sun has crossed the meridian.
- pm stands for post meridiem or "after midday" – after the sun has crossed the meridian.
At exactly 12 noon, the Sun is at its highest point in the sky and directly over the meridian. It is therefore neither 'ante' (am) nor 'post' (pm) meridiem. At 12 midnight it also neither am nor pm.
CONCLUSION:
Since noon is midday, then by very definition it can be neither am (before midday) nor pm (after midday).
It is therefore technically nonsensical to refer to "12 am" and "12 pm" — as opposed to, say, "11:59:59 am" (before midday) or "12:00:01 pm" (after midday).
Hence the desirability, both for accuracy and to avoid unnecessary confusion, to refer instead to "12 noon" and "12 midnight". Or, as other members have already emphasised, to use the 24‑hour clock for timekeeping.
its a bit strange as it says Registration ends on Friday 16th December @ 12pm GMT which is in 35 mins also its a very long shot but I would add shop@legacyofwarfoundation.co.uk as an email to my safe senders in the Ts and Cs this is the email mentioned so it may well come from there 12pm is midnight not noon. pm stands for 'post meridiem' meaning 12 hours 'after noon'. Technically that’s incorrect. At 12 noon the sun is directly over the meridian and is therefore neither ante nor post meridian. Same at midnight. It’s therefore 12 noon or 12 midnight. 12.01am is early morning and 12.01pm is early afternoon. When people say 12pm what they are really saying is 12 hours after the meridiem. The meridiem is when the sun is directly overhead, i.e. at noon. So 12pm is midnight. However, this does cause huge confusion so websites should never use 12am and 12pm but stick to saying 'noon' or 'midnight'. Or another way round it is to make the cut-off time 11:59 am or pm to avoid any confusion. Hmm 12pm is midday to all intents and purposes It isn't. I don't know why people are liking your post. If people think 12pm is midday then they are wrong. Check what pm means. Don't take my word for it; look it up yourself. They're liking it because you're in the minority. 12pm is midday. Deal with it. I may be in the minority...but I'm still right. As I said before; look up what am and pm means. It's not rocket science. Good exchange. Despite the relative triviality of the subject, this is the kind of debate I do find engaging. Hair-splitting and pedantry on non‑commercial matters is far less tedious to me than reading a stream of self-interested posts about the latest auction results for Thierry N oir. Leaving aside one moment what is technically accurate, convention must also be considered — i.e. what most people actually mean when they use certain words and expressions. There are clearly different usages between various groups of individuals, which can sometimes be explained by generational, geographical, cultural or social differences. But at least among my own peers, if somebody suggests, "Let's meet at 12 pm", they usually mean, "Let's meet at 12 noon."Cheers for the helpful link. This was also the first website I found when Googling "12 pm noon or midnight", to make sure I really did know what I was talking about before posting. Excerpt: What does am and pm mean?
The 12-hour clock divides the 24-hour day into two periods.
- am stands for the Latin ante meridiem, translating to "before midday". This is the time before the sun has crossed the meridian.
- pm stands for post meridiem or "after midday" – after the sun has crossed the meridian.
At exactly 12 noon, the Sun is at its highest point in the sky and directly over the meridian. It is therefore neither 'ante' (am) nor 'post' (pm) meridiem. At 12 midnight it also neither am nor pm.CONCLUSION:Since noon is midday, then by very definition it can be neither am (before midday) nor pm (after midday). It is therefore technically nonsensical to refer to "12 am" and "12 pm" — as opposed to, say, "11:59:59 am" (before midday) or "12:00:01 pm" (after midday). Hence the desirability, both for accuracy and to avoid unnecessary confusion, to refer instead to "12 noon" and "12 midnight". Or, as other members have already emphasised, to use the 24‑hour clock for timekeeping.
|
|
met
Junior Member
Posts • 2,782
Likes • 6,706
June 2009
|
Cleon Peterson • The Naked Woman & Man, by met on Dec 16, 2022 5:27:02 GMT 1, Just in time for Christmas.....misogyny. Condemning it though, not embracing it.
Given nobokov's previous form, I read their post as pithy humour — rather than as genuine criticism, or a premise to be taken at face value.
For the most part with the art of Cleon Peterson, I see no real discrimination between the sexes or races.
His work often seems more about generic, almost abstract or philosophical notions of the Other. And of course about the violence and barbarity of mankind (this latter term, for the avoidance of doubt, being used in the collective sense).
At least with me, the above print release doesn't therefore evoke any themes of misogyny.
Likewise, if the positions of the male and female characters were reversed, I would not describe the resulting piece as being either misandrous or a commentary by the artist on misandry:
Just in time for Christmas.....misogyny. Condemning it though, not embracing it. Given nobokov's previous form, I read their post as pithy humour — rather than as genuine criticism, or a premise to be taken at fa ce value. For the most part with the art of Cleon Peterson, I see no real discrimination between the sexes or races. His work often seems more about generic, almost abstract or philosophical notions of the Other. And of course about the violence and barbarity of mankind (this latter term, for the avoidance of doubt, being used in the collective sense). At least with me, the above print release doesn't therefore evoke any themes of misogyny. Likewise, if the positions of the male and female characters were reversed, I would not describe the resulting piece as being either misandrous or a commentary by the artist on misandry:
|
|
met
Junior Member
Posts • 2,782
Likes • 6,706
June 2009
|
Invader Djerba and Prints Paper book etc.., by met on Dec 15, 2022 5:19:39 GMT 1, I have been thinking about getting the Invader Djerba stamps - really good price too, but I just bought the Invader Veggie sticker sheet! GLWTS! Thank you I just Updated the ebay UK with Bids for Djerba Stamps and a wonderful pack of Banksy Clown Skateboard - and a badge of te iconic image ( It was for the collab with Ludo if I well remember ).. Large stickers ! Still have the original book Prints and paper with sticker of the date ( unopened), issue 4000 ex Thank You all! www.ebay.com/usr/dodcoquelicotLittle bump... No biddings at all... If Invader stamps or book won't be over 50 I will take them off..Spectacular crisis - or/and shipping increase ?
I bid a few days ago after seeing this thread. I was the highest bidder. Then you cancelled the sale...Why bother putting things on eBay and then creating a thread here about your items if you're going to do that? Poor form. I put them back. But in « buy it now.» at a nice and correct price - with offers. i don’t care to loose money on some items or art because of the lack of followers or bidders.. But I like so much my sheet of Djerba stamps that I did not want to sell them for 50 euros I think : I know eBay ( since the time ! 2001 !) and I saw that 12 hours before the end, ebayers did not put any bids ! No way to sell it for 50 quid. As the Invader book ( some are offering me 45 or 50 euros or £ and it was the initial price ! It’s the first edition, still wrapped. it’s not true that I took off all the items. I sold The CD for 18 €, I wanted more but I don’t care. But Djerba stamps don’t merit a 50 €. When guys want really an artwork, biddings are immediately high. it was not the case, and I don’t justify myself. Ebay sales since Covid and crisis are hard. And you could pmed me too. Anyway I can understand your disappointment. i am sure that I’m not the only one to do that ! I sold all Banksy Lps or Invader rarities by the past for … pieces of cheese. Understand nothing. Now, I take care, that’s all.
__________
Lroy, I don’t want to teach you a lesson, but when someone is the highest bidder on eBay, he or she wins the item. You can’t just cancel the sale because you aren’t happy with what people are willing to pay for it.
There could be some confusion here. And unwarranted melodrama. Maybe due to a language barrier and excursiveness on one side, and the possible use of imprecise terminology on the other.
My impression is that the relevant eBay auction never closed. This would mean no bidder won the auction and no sale was "cancelled".
It sounds like Lroy simply followed through on his advance warning, ending his listing early and cancelling all the bids — which eBay sellers are entitled to do for any auction with 12 or more hours left to run.
Provided this understanding is correct, resurrection may well have been the highest bidder (at the time the listing was ended). But they were never actually the winning bidder, or the victim of a cancelled sale.
I have been thinking about getting the Invader Djerba stamps - really good price too, but I just bought the Invader Veggie sticker sheet! GLWTS! Thank you I just Updated the ebay UK with Bids for Djerba Stamps and a wonderful pack of Banksy Clown Skateboard - and a badge of te iconic image ( It was for the collab with Ludo if I well remember ).. Large stickers ! Still have the original book Prints and paper with sticker of the date ( unopened), issue 4000 ex Thank You all! www.ebay.com/usr/dodcoquelicotLittle bump... No biddings at all... If Invader stamps or book won't be over 50 I will take them off..Spectacular crisis - or/and shipping increase ? I bid a few days ago after seeing this thread. I was the highest bidder. Then you cancelled the sale...Why bother putting things on eBay and then creating a thread here about your items if you're going to do that? Poor form. I put them back. But in « buy it now.» at a nice and correct price - with offers. i don’t care to loose money on some items or art because of the lack of followers or bidders.. But I like so much my sheet of Djerba stamps that I did not want to sell them for 50 euros I think : I know eBay ( since the time ! 2001 !) and I saw that 12 hours before the end, ebayers did not put any bids ! No way to sell it for 50 quid. As the Invader book ( some are offering me 45 or 50 euros or £ and it was the initial price ! It’s the first edition, still wrapped. it’s not true that I took off all the items. I sold The CD for 18 €, I wanted more but I don’t care. But Djerba stamps don’t merit a 50 €. When guys want really an artwork, biddings are immediately high. it was not the case, and I don’t justify myself. Ebay sales since Covid and crisis are hard. And you could pmed me too. Anyway I can understand your disappointment. i am sure that I’m not the only one to do that ! I sold all Banksy Lps or Invader rarities by the past for … pieces of cheese. Understand nothing. Now, I take care, that’s all. __________ Lroy, I don’t want to teach you a lesson, but when someone is the highest bidder on eBay, he or she wins the item. You can’t just cancel the sale because you aren’t happy with what people are willing to pay for it. There could be some confusion here. And unwarranted melodrama. Maybe due to a language barrier and excursiveness on one side, and the possible use of imprecise terminology on the other. My impression is that the relevant eB ay auction never closed. This would mean no bidder won the auction and no sale was "cancelled". It sounds like Lroy simply followed through on his advance warning, ending his listing early and cancelling all the bids — which eB ay sellers are entitled to do for any auction with 12 or more hours left to run. Provided this understanding is correct, resurrection may well have been the highest bidder (at the time the listing was ended). But they were never actually the winning bidder, or the victim of a cancelled sale.
|
|
met
Junior Member
Posts • 2,782
Likes • 6,706
June 2009
|
Mason Storm 🇬🇧 New Print Release • Who is Mason Storm?, by met on Dec 5, 2022 22:11:22 GMT 1, This is the real think, maybe you forgot than banksy pay hem to do it, and is not the only one it Banksy pay mason, like banks pay other artist to paint for hem... the only good think about banksy is than hem know how to manipulate the media
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion on Mason Storm the person. But I can tell you as someone who has worked with him as an artist - the dude can paint with the best of them. His paintings are so detailed they can be described as photorealism. His details are up there with other skilled painters like Jeff Henriquez and Fannakapan in comparison to other urban artists.
The spread of this nonsense is regrettable.
Such posts go beyond harmless cretinism. They are irresponsible, because they amount to misinformation — or (depending on the knowledge and intent of the individual who's posting) disinformation.
What must also be borne in mind is the potential cumulative impact the comments may have on less-experienced art enthusiasts, especially when seen to originate from multiple sources, which may in turn enhance perceived reliability.
Apart from being false, there is a broader issue with these comments:
They risk encouraging collectors to be more unquestioning, rather than put in the effort by actually studying the paintings. To be credulous, rather than critically-minded. And therefore to be dupes, ripe for the picking by the scores of shady sellers happy to lighten their wallets and purses.
[It seems almost as nefarious as assuring an orphaned child, "Yes, that medium and psychic really does have the power to communicate with your dead mother. And a 10‑minute Zoom chat with them would only cost you £200."]
The reasoning presented is often as basic as the following:
"Yes, Mason Storm is of course an incredibly talented painter. See for yourself! Look at all of these impressive, finished canvases with his signature on them."
Now, there will always be people who simply accept statements like this at face value, especially if it's what they wish to hear. Some of them might even have a pretty good eye — and, if less blinkered, could otherwise have spotted the painting styles of different hands within the body of work attributed to Storm.
I would argue those individuals are their own worst enemies. They could benefit from being given a good shake. Or perhaps a good slap. Or maybe they are just fools, beyond salvation.
This is the real think, maybe you forgot than banksy pay hem to do it, and is not the only one it Banksy pay mason, like banks pay other artist to paint for hem... the only good think about banksy is than hem know how to manipulate the media Everyone is entitled to their own opinion on Mason Storm the person. But I can tell you as someone who has worked with him as an artist - the dude can paint with the best of them. His paintings are so detailed they can be described as photorealism. His details are up there with other skilled painters like Jeff Henriquez and Fannakapan in comparison to other urban artists. The spread of this nonsense is regrettable. Such posts go beyond harmless cretinism. They are irresponsible, because they amount to misinformation — or (depending on the knowledge and intent of the individual who's posting) disinformation. What must also be borne in mind is the potential cumulative impact the comments may have on less-experienced art enthusiasts, especially when seen to originate from multiple sources, which may in turn enhance perceived reliability. Apart from being false, there is a broader issue with these comments: They risk encouraging collectors to be more unquestioning, rather than put in the effort by actually studying the paintings. To be credulous, rather than critically-minded. And therefore to be dupes, ripe for the picking by the scores of shady sellers happy to lighten their wallets and purses. [It seems almost as nefarious as assuring an orphaned child, "Yes, that medium and psychic really does have the power to communicate with your dead mother. And a 10‑minute Zoom chat with them would only cost you £200."]The reasoning presented is often as basic as the following: "Yes, Mason Storm is of course an incredibly talented painter. See for yourself! Look at all of these impressive, finished canvases with his signature on them."Now, there will always be people who simply accept statements like this at fa ce value, especially if it's what they wish to hear. Some of them might even have a pretty good eye — and, if less blinkered, could otherwise have spotted the painting styles of different hands within the body of work attributed to St orm. I would argue those individuals are their own worst enemies. They could benefit from being given a good shake. Or perhaps a good slap. Or maybe they are just fools, beyond salvation.
|
|
met
Junior Member
Posts • 2,782
Likes • 6,706
June 2009
|
Banksy in Kiev, Ukraine 🇺🇦, by met on Dec 3, 2022 20:26:55 GMT 1, Let the speculation start! 😂 "BANKSY original STENCIL ukraine Time left: 4d 11h|Saturday, 00:05 Current bid: £48.00[ 9 bids ] Located in: Birmingham, United Kingdom" www.ebay.co.uk/itm/275554288903Does that stencil match up perfectly with the piece in Ukraine? I will let the self proclaimed knowledgeable ones answer 😂 A quick check on their sold items or their feedback tells you all you need to knowThis type of straightforward due-diligence check is indeed helpful. But it's also secondary, because what it serves to corroborate should already be evident, at least to anyone with a functional pair of eyes who bothered to examine a detailed photo of the Ban ksy mural in Borodyanka. And even among the visually impaired, to anyone with common sense. Zero proper knowledge is therefore actually required to conclude that the eB ay stencil is a counterfeit listed by some scammer under the username, lizzie.bee.123. [...] www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BANKSY-original-STENCIL-ukraine-/275554288903Fake stencil listing (eB ay item no. 275554288903) by lizzie.bee.123, possibly based in Birmingham, UK [...]
At the risk of labouring the point and giving the eBay fraud far more attention than it deserves, below is a handful of images juxtaposing the Borodyanka gymnast piece with the counterfeit stencil by lizzie.bee.123.
Irrespective of the slightly different angles of the side-by-side images, note the rather glaring tells with the fake stencil, including:
(i) its less-detailed nature;
(ii) some incorrect proportions; and
(iii) when producing the counterfeit based on photos of the Borodyanka mural, clear confusion by lizzie.bee.123 between (a) the painted areas created by Banksy's stencil, and (b) those resulting from underspray, freehand-spraying, and the uneven surface of the wall.
Once again, knowledge of Banksy's artwork isn't required to quickly identify the eBay stencil as a fake, and lizzie.bee.123 as a fraudster. Viewers just need to use their observational skills.
COMPARE AND CONTRAST:
__________
Efforts here to provoke reactions from other forum members are, generally speaking, fair enough. Even when those efforts sometimes feel a little tiresome, like clickbait.
But the posting of patently fraudulent eBay listings seems problematic, specifically when accompanied by open-ended, "Is this real or fake? What do you think?"-style commentary.
There is an unhelpful ambiguity to these posts — unhelpful at least for some of our fellow members who might be young, inexperienced, ignorant, naive, inattentive and/or simply foolish. They could fail to appreciate the questions being asked may be rhetorical or less-than-sincere. And that any express calls for speculation about the authenticity of a piece may be motivated simply by a desire to promote increased engagement on this message board.
When we (and we senior forum members in particular) are coy about obviously-scam eBay listings, rather than categoric and definitive from the outset, the danger is that we risk unintentionally conferring upon those listings a veneer of possible legitimacy.
That in turn could make us complicit if any wishful thinkers among us are later defrauded.
I do not believe this concern to be unreasonable.
Let the speculation start! 😂 "BANKSY original STENCIL ukraine Time left: 4d 11h|Saturday, 00:05 Current bid: £48.00[ 9 bids ] Located in: Birmingham, United Kingdom" www.ebay.co.uk/itm/275554288903Does that stencil match up perfectly with the piece in Ukraine? I will let the self proclaimed knowledgeable ones answer 😂 A quick check on their sold items or their feedback tells you all you need to knowThis type of straightforward due-diligence check is indeed helpful. But it's also secondary, because what it serves to corroborate should already be evident, at least to anyone with a functional pair of eyes who bothered to examine a detailed photo of the Ban ksy mural in Borodyanka. And even among the visually impaired, to anyone with common sense. Zero proper knowledge is therefore actually required to conclude that the eB ay stencil is a counterfeit listed by some scammer under the username, lizzie.bee.123. [...] www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BANKSY-original-STENCIL-ukraine-/275554288903Fake stencil listing (eB ay item no. 275554288903) by lizzie.bee.123, possibly based in Birmingham, UK [...] At the risk of labouring the point and giving the eB ay fraud far more attention than it deserves, below is a handful of images juxtaposing the Borodyanka gymnast piece with the counterfeit stencil by lizzie.bee.123. Irrespective of the slightly different angles of the side-by-side images, note the rather glaring tells with the fake stencil, including: (i) its less-detailed nature; (ii) some incorrect proportions; and (iii) when producing the counterfeit based on photos of the Borodyanka mural, clear confusion by lizzie.bee.123 between (a) the painted areas created by Ban ksy's stencil, and (b) those resulting from underspray, freehand-spraying, and the uneven surface of the wall. Once again, knowledge of Ban ksy's artwork isn't required to quickly identify the eB ay stencil as a fake, and lizzie.bee.123 as a fraudster. Viewers just need to use their observational skills. COMPARE AND CONTRAST:__________ Efforts here to provoke reactions from other fo rum members are, generally speaking, fair enough. Even when those efforts sometimes feel a little tiresome, like clickbait. But the posting of patently fraudulent eBay listings seems problematic, specifically when accompanied by open-ended, "Is this real or fake? What do you think?"-style commentary. There is an unhelpful ambiguity to these posts — unhelpful at least for some of our fellow members who might be young, inexperienced, ignorant, naive, inattentive and/or simply foolish. They could fail to appreciate the questions being asked may be rhetorical or less-than-sincere. And that any express calls for speculation about the authenticity of a piece may be motivated simply by a desire to promote increased engagement on this message board. When we (and we senior fo rum members in particular) are coy about obviously-scam eB ay listings, rather than categoric and definitive from the outset, the danger is that we risk unintentionally conferring upon those listings a veneer of possible legitimacy. That in turn could make us complicit if any wishful thinkers among us are later defrauded. I do not believe this concern to be unreasonable.
|
|