met
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June 2009
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Keith haring draws , by met on Mar 6, 2022 15:59:08 GMT 1, Hi looking for sale my 2 Keith haring draw one dollar billet and lobby lounge menu draw Donโt have coa because fondation dont want delivered now But itโs original draw for sure ! Make me offer serious ibb.co/b58Zcspibb.co/M6Zp9yTibb.co/H41ywyQ
Most confusing to me is the confidence with which this assertion was made.
The drawings may be original. But they were not created by the hand of Keith Haring.
Hi looking for sale my 2 Keith haring draw one dollar billet and lobby lounge menu draw Donโt have coa because fondation dont want delivered now But itโs original draw for sure ! Make me offer serious ibb.co/b58Zcspibb.co/M6Zp9yTibb.co/H41ywyQMost confusing to me is the confidence with which this assertion was made. The drawings may be original. But they were not created by the hand of Keith Haring.
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met
Junior Member
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June 2009
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Keith haring draw, by met on Mar 6, 2022 15:45:05 GMT 1, Hi I would like to know if for you the certificate of this drawing which is on the back is authentic or not? the person who wants to sell it to me says yes but there are so many fakes that I have doubts thank you for your answers ibb.co/8DhY86wibb.co/mvWYzjG
The photos from your ImgBB links have been added directly to this thread for convenience (and greater permanence, in case you chose an auto-delete option on ImgBB).
____________________
such works have an enhanced COA by the estate with a registration number. They are not stamped. Some prints are stamped by the estate. This to me is 100% fake. Agreed.
whatโs the asking price? Cf. point 1 below.
Might be worth reaching out to the estate. While I understand they don't authenticate works anymore they may be willing to comment on the authenticity of the certificate. You have the mail of estate ?because I canโt find in the website of fondation The foundation website has a contact form I wouldn't bother the Keith Haring Foundation about this item. See points 1 and 2 below.
The signature on the drawing alone reveals it to be a fake piece of garbage. Although not 100% irrefutable evidence that we're in the presence of a counterfeit (at least to my eyes), the "Haring" signature is indeed highly suspect. And it serves to tip the scales when considered together with many of the other tells:
For me, the greater mess is with the "Julia Gruen" signature. That in itself offers all the proof I would require of fakery โ even disregarding the dodgy estate stamp:
__________
jopops โ Your query reminded me of recent posts I responded to by other forum members. They were in connection with Banksy ephemera, i.e. items not accompanied by a Pest Control Office certificate of authenticity.
See here**, here* and here*.
My concern was that the members lacked sufficient knowledge, and were therefore setting themselves up as targets, to be overcharged or defrauded.
One of them, apparently based in the Netherlands, comes across to me as still having a misplaced sense of confidence. They have since put up multiple 'In Search Of' posts and even started selling unauthenticated Banksy ephemera โ which is, at best, irresponsible if they know too little to distinguish genuine Banksy items from counterfeits.
There is no issue per se when members are ignorant yet conscious of the limitations of their knowledge. That kind of self-awareness has a moderating effect, encouraging greater caution. However, it's a very different story when members are oblivious of their ignorance โ unaware of the fact they don't know, but also of the degree of their own cluelessness.
__________
At this stage of your collecting journey, my advice would be to avoid purchasing Keith Haring artworks, unless sourced from top-tier auction houses like Christie's, Sotheby's or Phillips.
This would also mean staying clear of all galleries, dealers and private sellers. Because what I sense is that you don't yet have a solid grasp of the Haring market, or the ability to discern reputable, credible dealers or collectors from the hoards of less-trustworthy ones.
As mentioned in the post below dated 28 November 2021 (in the Keith Haring Artwork, VALUATION thread*), the market is exceptionally high-risk due to the prevalence of fakes. Keith Haring is possibly the most faked artist in the world:
urbanartassociation.com/post/2139195/thread
The worrisome elements in this thread go beyond any reservations I have about your knowledge and experience.
There also lacked a common-sense approach to your due diligence and verification exercises. By this, I mean that โ even from a starting position of minimal familiarity with Haring โ basic checks should have made it clear to you that the piece you're considering was counterfeit.
I'll cite just two points, since there's a need to balance the competing interests of (a) informing collectors (so they can better protect themselves against fakes), versus (b) minimising the number of tips that will assist fraudsters (with their sale tactics or in churning out more convincing fakes):
1. In a now-deleted post, you referred to the seller's asking price of "10K".
Whether in sterling, euros or dollars, query what this figure should say to a prospective buyer.
When searching through past sale results of the big auction houses for signed Haring drawings on paper of a comparable size, subject matter and/or elaborateness, collectors would be hard-pressed to find one for less than the high five figures.
For ยฃ10,000, they'd be lucky getting a signed print. Perhaps like the one below, that Christie's sold in September 2021. The imagery looks rather familiar:
onlineonly.christies.com/s/prints-multiples/keith-haring-1958-1990-178/128202
2. The stamp purportedly by the Keith Haring Estate, with the signature purportedly by Julia Gruen as executor for the Estate, looks to be dated 7 December 1989:
This is fraudster incompetence at a comic level. And the fact it could escape the attention of a buyer thinking about spending a significant amount of money does frighten me.
Keith Haring died on 16 February 1990.
__________
jopops โ I hope the above effort is of some help to you.
By way of reciprocity, I'd be grateful if you could confirm the name, location and contact details of the person or entity who tried to sell you the counterfeit Keith Haring drawing.
This will benefit all forum members, letting them know whom to be wary of and thus reducing their likelihood of getting ripped off.
The willingness to show courage by publicly exposing wrongdoers also has an important dissuasive effect โ both for current scammers and those who might be thinking about selling fakes in the future.
Hi I would like to know if for you the certificate of this drawing which is on the back is authentic or not? the person who wants to sell it to me says yes but there are so many fakes that I have doubts thank you for your answers ibb.co/8DhY86wibb.co/mvWYzjGThe photos from your ImgBB links have been added directly to this thread for convenience (and greater permanence, in case you chose an auto-delete option on ImgBB). ____________________ such works have an enhanced COA by the estate with a registration number. They are not stamped. Some prints are stamped by the estate. This to me is 100% fake. Agreed. whatโs the asking price? Cf. point 1 below. Might be worth reaching out to the estate. While I understand they don't authenticate works anymore they may be willing to comment on the authenticity of the certificate. You have the mail of estate ?because I canโt find in the website of fondation The foundation website has a contact form I wouldn't bother the Keith Ha ring Foundation about this item. See points 1 and 2 below. The signature on the drawing alone reveals it to be a fake piece of garbage. Although not 100% irrefutable evidence that we're in the presence of a counterfeit (at least to my eyes), the "Haring" signature is indeed highly suspect. And it serves to tip the scales when considered together with many of the other tells: For me, the greater mess is with the "Julia Gruen" signature. That in itself offers all the proof I would require of fakery โ even disregarding the dodgy estate stamp: __________ jopops โ Your query reminded me of recent posts I responded to by other forum members. They were in connection with Banksy ephemera, i.e. items not accompanied by a Pest Control Office certificate of authenticity. See here **, here * and here *. My concern was that the members lacked sufficient knowledge, and were therefore setting themselves up as targets, to be overcharged or defrauded. One of them, apparently based in the Netherlands, comes across to me as still having a misplaced sense of confidence. They have since put up multiple 'In Search Of' posts and even started selling unauthenticated Ban ksy ephemera โ which is, at best, irresponsible if they know too little to distinguish genuine Ban ksy items from counterfeits. There is no issue per se when members are ignorant yet conscious of the limitations of their knowledge. That kind of self-awareness has a moderating effect, encouraging greater caution. However, it's a very different story when members are oblivious of their ignorance โ unaware of the fact they don't know, but also of the degree of their own cluelessness. __________ At this stage of your collecting journey, my advice would be to avoid purchasing Keith Haring artworks, unless sourced from top-tier auction houses like Christie's, Sotheby's or Phillips. This would also mean staying clear of all galleries, dealers and private sellers. Because what I sense is that you don't yet have a solid grasp of the Ha ring market, or the ability to discern reputable, credible dealers or collectors from the hoards of less-trustworthy ones. As mentioned in the post below dated 28 November 2021 (in the Keith Haring Artwork, VALUATION thread *), the market is exceptionally high-risk due to the prevalence of fakes. Keith Ha ring is possibly the most faked artist in the world: urbanartassociation.com/post/2139195/threadThe worrisome elements in this thread go beyond any reservations I have about your knowledge and experience. There also lacked a common-sense approach to your due diligence and verification exercises. By this, I mean that โ even from a starting position of minimal familiarity with Ha ring โ basic checks should have made it clear to you that the piece you're considering was counterfeit. I'll cite just two points, since there's a need to balance the competing interests of (a) informing collectors (so they can better protect themselves against fakes), versus (b) minimising the number of tips that will assist fraudsters (with their sale tactics or in churning out more convincing fakes): 1. In a now-deleted post, you referred to the seller's asking price of "10K". Whether in sterling, euros or dollars, query what this figure should say to a prospective buyer. When searching through past sale results of the big auction houses for signed Ha ring drawings on paper of a comparable size, subject matter and/or elaborateness, collectors would be hard-pressed to find one for less than the high five figures. For ยฃ10,000, they'd be lucky getting a signed print. Perhaps like the one below, that Christie's sold in September 2021. The imagery looks rather familiar: onlineonly.christies.com/s/prints-multiples/keith-haring-1958-1990-178/1282022. The stamp purportedly by the Keith Haring Estate, with the signature purportedly by Julia Gruen as executor for the Estate, looks to be dated 7 December 1989: This is fraudster incompetence at a comic level. And the fact it could escape the attention of a buyer thinking about spending a significant amount of money does frighten me. Keith Ha ring died on 16 February 1990. __________ jopops โ I hope the above effort is of some help to you. By way of reciprocity, I'd be grateful if you could confirm the name, location and contact details of the person or entity who tried to sell you the counterfeit Keith Ha ring drawing. This will benefit all forum members, letting them know whom to be wary of and thus reducing their likelihood of getting ripped off. The willingness to show courage by publicly exposing wrongdoers also has an important dissuasive effect โ both for current scammers and those who might be thinking about selling fakes in the future.
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met
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June 2009
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INSANE51 - DREAM, by met on Mar 4, 2022 14:29:59 GMT 1, Although I'm not so much a fan of the 3D-glasses gimmickry, this is nice work by Insane51. If it's a loose depiction of Nyx, goddess of the night, then presumably she's holding the moon between her index finger and thumb. The Monstera plant is rather curious. While it seems out of keeping with a deity theme, perhaps it holds symbolic meaning for the artist. Still, the pairing of leaf structure with ribcage is both clever and effective. Random query, but do the bodies of Greek gods really have skeletons within? Let me know because, if so, those bones can surely also be broken (for example, in hand-to-hand combat). That would then make me far more confident and less nervous about angering the gods โ including Nemesis, whom I've heard is a right shrew. Humans and Greek gods differ because the gods were thought to be immortal and to hold special powers. Nothing is sad about any body alterations. So yes, I do think that the Greek gods had bones. Regarding Nemesis: she was also called Adrasteia, meaning 'the inescapable'. So despite her having bones I guess you won't have a chance against her in a hand-to-hand battle. Maybe the first strike will be yours, but she will surely enact some divine retribution on you.
That's helpful. Thank you for the information. Forewarned is forearmed.
But with respect to my chances in combat, I am somewhat more optimistic than you.
Many moons ago, a former acquaintance of mine named Cark used to repeatedly "forget" to buy his round. While not a big deal at first, over time this habit became irksome. It was less about money than principle, especially since our salaries were pretty much the same.
One night, things got heated at the pub. I called Cark a tightwad. He misinterpreted this as a sexual insult, proceeded to freak out, and gave me a violent shove. Now, years before, this chap had lost one of his pinky fingers in a drunken game of Truth or Dare. But he still had huge fists and weighed about 20kgs more than me. A conventional fight was therefore unlikely to end in my favour.
And so, right before a second shove could be initiated by Cark, I did a quick spin move that resulted in his back now facing me. I then hopped on piggyback-style with my legs around his waist, locked my ankles in front of him, and then quickly squeezed my thighs with all the force I could muster. This gave his internal organs (intestines, kidneys, pancreas and stomach) a shock compression. He immediately dropped to the floor in agony โ yelling, in a surprisingly high-pitched voice, "Stop! Stop! Stop!"
The effectiveness of this technique was most impressive. Cark even bought the next few rounds.
Should I ever have to face Nemesis, I plan to carry out the exact same move. And when she's on the ground screaming for mercy (provided she has internal organs and can feel pain), I'll ask, "Do you give up now? Do you also promise, on the immortal life of your mother Nyx, to never enact divine retribution upon me?"
My assumption here is that Nemesis will stay true to her word, even if originally given under duress.
This expectation seems reasonable to me, or at least not unreasonable. Because if we cannot trust the Greek gods, what hope is there for any of us?
Although I'm not so much a fan of the 3D-glasses gimmickry, this is nice work by Insane51. If it's a loose depiction of Nyx, goddess of the night, then presumably she's holding the moon between her index finger and thumb. The Monstera plant is rather curious. While it seems out of keeping with a deity theme, perhaps it holds symbolic meaning for the artist. Still, the pairing of leaf structure with ribcage is both clever and effective. Random query, but do the bodies of Greek gods really have skeletons within? Let me know because, if so, those bones can surely also be broken (for example, in hand-to-hand combat). That would then make me far more confident and less nervous about angering the gods โ including Nemesis, whom I've heard is a right shrew. Humans and Greek gods differ because the gods were thought to be immortal and to hold special powers. Nothing is sad about any body alterations. So yes, I do think that the Greek gods had bones. Regarding Nemesis: she was also called Adrasteia, meaning 'the inescapable'. So despite her having bones I guess you won't have a chance against her in a hand-to-hand battle. Maybe the first strike will be yours, but she will surely enact some divine retribution on you. That's helpful. Thank you for the information. Forewarned is forearmed. But with respect to my chances in combat, I am somewhat more optimistic than you. Many moons ago, a former acquaintance of mine named Cark used to repeatedly "forget" to buy his round. While not a big deal at first, over time this habit became irksome. It was less about money than principle, especially since our salaries were pretty much the same. One night, things got heated at the pub. I called Cark a tightwad. He misinterpreted this as a sexual insult, proceeded to freak out, and gave me a violent shove. Now, years before, this chap had lost one of his pinky fingers in a drunken game of Truth or Dare. But he still had huge fists and weighed about 20kgs more than me. A conventional fight was therefore unlikely to end in my favour. And so, right before a second shove could be initiated by Cark, I did a quick spin move that resulted in his back now facing me. I then hopped on piggyback-style with my legs around his waist, locked my ankles in front of him, and then quickly squeezed my thighs with all the force I could muster. This gave his internal organs (intestines, kidneys, pancreas and stomach) a shock compression. He immediately dropped to the floor in agony โ yelling, in a surprisingly high-pitched voice, "Stop! Stop! Stop!"The effectiveness of this technique was most impressive. Cark even bought the next few rounds. Should I ever have to face Nemesis, I plan to carry out the exact same move. And when she's on the ground screaming for mercy (provided she has internal organs and can feel pain), I'll ask, "Do you give up now? Do you also promise, on the immortal life of your mother Nyx, to never enact divine retribution upon me?"My assumption here is that Nemesis will stay true to her word, even if originally given under duress. This expectation seems reasonable to me, or at least not unreasonable. Because if we cannot trust the Greek gods, what hope is there for any of us?
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met
Junior Member
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June 2009
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Christie's Art Auctions , by met on Mar 4, 2022 11:36:18 GMT 1, Love that Morons (outside the edition). Says a gift, would this have a PC? Spend your money on an editioned example This impression of Morons is 'outside of the edition' of approximately thirty artist's proofs, which features different detailing around the canvas and on some of the figures. These 'brushwork' elements were applied using an alternate screen in the screenprinting process, that was not used in the published edition. The small edition of artist's proofs were printed in varying colourways, and this impression outside of the edition has a subtly different warm brown colour scheme to the sepia tones used in the main edition. This lot is offered with the new Certificate of Authenticity from Pest Control.
Looks like the auctioneer, the other staff members, and all of the attendees decided to take part in a very civilised dirty protest.
They may have been inspired by the scatological theme of the painting for sale.
Love that Morons (outside the edition). Says a gift, would this have a PC? Spend your money on an editioned example This impression of Morons is 'outside of the edition' of approximately thirty artist's proofs, which features different detailing around the canvas and on some of the figures. These 'brushwork' elements were applied using an alternate screen in the screenprinting process, that was not used in the published edition. The small edition of artist's proofs were printed in varying colourways, and this impression outside of the edition has a subtly different warm brown colour scheme to the sepia tones used in the main edition. This lot is offered with the new Certificate of Authenticity from Pest Control. Looks like the auctioneer, the other staff members, and all of the attendees decided to take part in a very civilised dirty protest. They may have been inspired by the scatological theme of the painting for sale.
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,782
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June 2009
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INSANE51 - DREAM, by met on Mar 4, 2022 8:45:51 GMT 1, INSANE 51 - DREAM AVAILABLE ONLINE 5pm(GMT) SATURDAY 5th MARCH 9 Colour Sceen Print on 310gsm Hand Deckled Somerset Tub Satin Paper Exclusive 'Dream' 3D Glasses Paper Size: 27.55 x 27.55 Inches (70 x 70cm) Main Edition of 150 signed, numbered and with a Certificate of Authenticity - ยฃ275 Hand Finished Edition of 12 signed, numbered and with a Certificate of Authenticity - ยฃ875 PRE-SALE 50 Main Edition Prints & 3 Hand Finished Edition Print will be available directly from the Upfest Gallery, 198 North Street, Bristol from 10am - 5th March
Although I'm not so much a fan of the 3D-glasses gimmickry, this is nice work by Insane51.
If it's a loose depiction of Nyx, goddess of the night, then presumably she's holding the moon between her index finger and thumb.
The Monstera plant is rather curious. While it seems out of keeping with a deity theme, perhaps it holds symbolic meaning for the artist. Still, the pairing of leaf structure with ribcage is both clever and effective.
Random query, but do the bodies of Greek gods really have skeletons within?
Let me know because, if so, those bones can surely also be broken (for example, in hand-to-hand combat). That would then make me far more confident and less nervous about angering the gods โ including Nemesis, whom I've heard is a right shrew.
INSANE 51 - DREAM AVAILABLE ONLINE 5pm(GMT) SATURDAY 5th MARCH 9 Colour Sceen Print on 310gsm Hand Deckled Somerset Tub Satin Paper Exclusive 'Dream' 3D Glasses Paper Size: 27.55 x 27.55 Inches (70 x 70cm) Main Edition of 150 signed, numbered and with a Certificate of Authenticity - ยฃ275 Hand Finished Edition of 12 signed, numbered and with a Certificate of Authenticity - ยฃ875 PRE-SALE 50 Main Edition Prints & 3 Hand Finished Edition Print will be available directly from the Upfest Gallery, 198 North Street, Bristol from 10am - 5th March Although I'm not so much a fan of the 3D-glasses gimmickry, this is nice work by Insane51. If it's a loose depiction of Nyx, goddess of the night, then presumably she's holding the moon between her index finger and thumb. The Monstera plant is rather curious. While it seems out of keeping with a deity theme, perhaps it holds symbolic meaning for the artist. Still, the pairing of leaf structure with ribcage is both clever and effective. Random query, but do the bodies of Greek gods really have skeletons within? Let me know because, if so, those bones can surely also be broken (for example, in hand-to-hand combat). That would then make me far more confident and less nervous about angering the gods โ including Nemesis, whom I've heard is a right shrew.
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met
Junior Member
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June 2009
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I picked this up a couple of years ago. Thought you can never go wrong with a Rainbow... Any idea what this is worth. Screenprint from 1972.Any thoughts ? Your Jim Dine appears to be a hand lithograph rather than a screenprint. As for current financial value, normally around the mid-three figures in euros. Note however that past sales (and attempted sales) have shown little consistency โ ranging from two figures to the low-four figures, depending on the auction house/platform and, presumably, pure chance. For future reference, my approach was as follows:1. Go to lot-art.com2. Search for "jim dine rainbow" in the past sales. 3. View the list of results and potential hits, which are without prices for non-subscription-holders, but do include details of the relevant auction houses and sale dates: lot-art.com/auction-lots?itms=1&page=1&sq=jim+dine+rainbow&ssection=2&smq=&order=relevance&scat=&scountry=&shouses=&sest_min=&sest_max=&scurrency=USD&stype=04. Go to the websites of the individual auction houses, and then search again for each of the relevant sales by date in 'Past Sales' or 'Auction Results'. Some recent results:(i) Abaca SRL (Brussels, Belgium) - 10 May 2021 Winning bid unknown without a Drouot subscription Lot 243 (estimate was โฌ300โโฌ600) abaca.auction/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/abaca_vente3_catalogue_v2.pdf(ii) Sworders (Stansted Mountfitchet, Essex, UK) - 25 April 2021 Closing bid: ยฃ60 (not clear if reserve was actually met; estimate was ยฃ100โยฃ150) timed.sworder.co.uk/past-auctions/sworde1-10016/lot-details/5be39bd6-90a6-4b1c-8bfd-ad050125889e(iii) Akiba Antiques (Dania Beach, Florida, USA) - 18 March 2021 Sold for (exc. premium): $800 (circa ยฃ597) www.liveauctioneers.com/item/98542037_jim-dine-american-b-1935-rainbow-colored(iv) Forum Auctions (London, UK) - 11 March 2021 Hammer Price: ยฃ800www.forumauctions.co.uk/77518/Jim-Dine-b.1935-Rainbow?auction_date=&auction_no=1070&catId=&excl_keyword=&first_name=&gridtype=listview&high_estimate=&ipp=20&keyword=&last_name=&low_estimate=&name=&page_no=8&search_type=&sort_by=lot_no&title=&view=lot_detail(v) Forum Auctions (London, UK) - 27 August 2020 Unsold (Estimate ยฃ600โยฃ800) www.forumauctions.co.uk/70435/Jim-Dine-b.1935-Rainbow?auction_date=&auction_no=2163&catId=&excl_keyword=&first_name=&gridtype=listview&high_estimate=&ipp=20&keyword=&last_name=&low_estimate=&name=&page_no=3&search_type=&sort_by=lot_no&title=&view=lot_detail(vi) Forum Auctions (London, UK) - 21 July 2020 Unsold (Estimate ยฃ600โยฃ800) www.forumauctions.co.uk/69656/Jim-Dine-b.1935-Rainbow?auction_date=&auction_no=1058&catId=&excl_keyword=&first_name=&gridtype=listview&high_estimate=&ipp=20&keyword=&last_name=&low_estimate=&name=&page_no=10&search_type=&sort_by=lot_no&title=&view=lot_detail(vii) Swann Auction Galleries - New York, USA - 21 November 2019 Winning bid (inc. premium): $1,375catalogue.swanngalleries.com/Lots/auction-lot/JIM-DINE-Rainbow?saleno=2525&lotNo=215&refNo=765676(viii) Black Rock Galleries - Bridgeport, Connecticut, USA - 3 March 2019 Winning bid (exc. premium): $500www.blackrockgalleries.com/product/jim-dine-american-ny-b-1935-1972-color-lithograph-rainbow-98655.html
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met
Junior Member
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June 2009
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The Connor Brothers ๐ฌ๐ง Mike Snelle & James Golding, by met on Feb 28, 2022 23:37:17 GMT 1, Edition of 20. Sold out already, of course - Iโd have really liked one of these.THE IDIOT The Connor Brothers, 2022 pigment print with silkscreen 41.5 cm x 29 cm edition of 20, signed and dated ยฃ300 inc vat unframed http://instagr.am/p/CahRdKhI-3S
Consider yourself fortunate.
To the extent the Ukrainian cause resonates with people, they could be better off just donating โ to avoid being tainted by any association with impostor artists.
Regarding the print itself, I find it terribly embarrassing.
What it demonstrates to me is that the Connor Brothers haven't even bothered reading a summary of the book they are referencing โ let alone the book itself. The tie-in with Vladimir Putin is nonsensical because the character of Prince Myshkin is anything but an idiot. This irony is the whole point of Dostoevsky's novel.
So where does the "idiocy" truly lie?
I would argue it's with the Connor Brothers' blunderingly ignorant attempt at a classic literary reference.
Edition of 20. Sold out already, of course - Iโd have really liked one of these.THE IDIOT The Connor Brothers, 2022 pigment print with silkscreen 41.5 cm x 29 cm edition of 20, signed and dated ยฃ300 inc vat unframed http://instagr.am/p/CahRdKhI-3S Consider yourself fortunate. To the extent the Ukrainian cause resonates with people, they could be better off just donating โ to avoid being tainted by any association with impostor artists. Regarding the print itself, I find it terribly embarrassing. What it demonstrates to me is that the Connor Brothers haven't even bothered reading a summary of the book they are referencing โ let alone the book itself. The tie-in with Vladimir Putin is nonsensical because the character of Prince Myshkin is anything but an idiot. This irony is the whole point of Dostoevsky's novel. So where does the "idiocy" truly lie? I would argue it's with the Con nor Brothers' blunderingly ignorant attempt at a classic literary reference.
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met
Junior Member
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June 2009
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Looking to buy: Paul Insect neon canvas., by met on Feb 28, 2022 22:22:51 GMT 1, That neon piece is at West Chelsea Gallery in Austin. TBH, it's an awesome piece and it was kind of what got me into this whole str eet art collecting scene after visiting that gallery a few months back while in Austin with family. That piece was way too rich for my blood but they've had it for awhile so I'm sure you could negotiate some deal (at one point Artsy even sent me a 1k discount offer on it). The Art Consultant was kind enough to send me some info on it back in Nov 2021 when I enquired about it. Suggest reaching out to him directly. Might be able to get something going. Good luck! Info below: Devin James Art Consultant West Chelsea Contemporary (512) 478-4440 | (509) 942-4053 devin@wcc.art wcc.art 1009 W 6th St., #116, 78703 West Chelsea Contemporary West Chelsea Contemporary 1009 West 6th Street Suite 120 Austin, TX 78703 512-478-4440 www.wcc.artClockwork Britain (Neon Special) Paul In sect Clockwork Britain (Neon Special) (1/4), 2012 Screenprint with acrylic and spray paint on canvas Signature: Signed, dated, inscribed and numbered in black ink on the reverse 27.75 x 20 in (70.48 x 50.80 cm) $9,600.00 COA: This work comes with a certificate of Authenticity from West Chelsea Contemporary. ? Additional Info: English street artist Paul Insect's work has evolved from Victorian graphics to Dada-esque collage. There is a primitiveness to his sometimes aggressive subject matter partly disguised by the use of vibrant colors and an entertaining style. The artist often incorporates masked figures donned with the British flag backed in vibrant colors. His street style is a pertinent trademark that makes him instantly recognizable, and the present work is one of his most popular motifs. Insect held an exhibition at a disused sex shop in London's Kings Cross area in 2008 in partnership with Lazarides Gallery, which also represents Banksy.
Be wary of accepting art advice from the individual(s) who wrote or proofread the above 'Additional Info' on Paul Insect.
That paragraph fluctuates from nonsense to word-salad to complete randomness. It reads like a carpet salesman just winging it after convincing themselves, "I should try art consulting. How hard can it be?"
One would have expected West Chelsea Contemporary at least to have noticed and made specific reference to the image being a fresh take by Insect on David Pelham's iconic book cover.
That neon piece is at West Chelsea Gallery in Austin. TBH, it's an awesome piece and it was kind of what got me into this whole str eet art collecting scene after visiting that gallery a few months back while in Austin with family. That piece was way too rich for my blood but they've had it for awhile so I'm sure you could negotiate some deal (at one point Artsy even sent me a 1k discount offer on it). The Art Consultant was kind enough to send me some info on it back in Nov 2021 when I enquired about it. Suggest reaching out to him directly. Might be able to get something going. Good luck! Info below: Devin James Art Consultant West Chelsea Contemporary (512) 478-4440 | (509) 942-4053 devin@wcc.art wcc.art 1009 W 6th St., #116, 78703 West Chelsea Contemporary West Chelsea Contemporary 1009 West 6th Street Suite 120 Austin, TX 78703 512-478-4440 www.wcc.artClockwork Britain (Neon Special) Paul In sect Clockwork Britain (Neon Special) (1/4), 2012 Screenprint with acrylic and spray paint on canvas Signature: Signed, dated, inscribed and numbered in black ink on the reverse 27.75 x 20 in (70.48 x 50.80 cm) $9,600.00 COA: This work comes with a certificate of Authenticity from West Chelsea Contemporary. ? Additional Info: English street artist Paul Insect's work has evolved from Victorian graphics to Dada-esque collage. There is a primitiveness to his sometimes aggressive subject matter partly disguised by the use of vibrant colors and an entertaining style. The artist often incorporates masked figures donned with the British flag backed in vibrant colors. His street style is a pertinent trademark that makes him instantly recognizable, and the present work is one of his most popular motifs. Insect held an exhibition at a disused sex shop in London's Kings Cross area in 2008 in partnership with Lazarides Gallery, which also represents Banksy.Be wary of accepting art advice from the individual(s) who wrote or proofread the above 'Additional Info' on Paul Insect. That paragraph fluctuates from nonsense to word-salad to complete randomness. It reads like a carpet salesman just winging it after convincing themselves, "I should try art consulting. How hard can it be?"One would have expected West Chelsea Contemporary at least to have noticed and made specific reference to the image being a fresh take by In sect on David Pelham's iconic book cover.
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,782
Likes โข 6,706
June 2009
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Banksy postcard, by met on Feb 25, 2022 3:00:29 GMT 1, Hi Met, I do apologize for my outburst. Just felt like it was not being understood on this board and wasnโt warmly welcomed. My sincere apologies. Just to clarify I am not buying all these items I was posting about just curious about their history , background, scarcity things like that. I do only buy items with solid provenance . I hope we can remain friends moving forward as you mentioned, Sincerely and best wishes to all,
No worries whatsoever.
Your outburst was good value on a number of grounds:
(i) I must have read it four or five times before responding. And on each occasion (at least from the second time onwards), I laughed out loud. That's pretty rare. Soon enough, I'm confident you'll be able to appreciate the comedic merit of the situation and share a laugh with me.
(ii) As previously mentioned, "wretch" is one of my favourite words. Try saying it in a low guttural manner. It is strangely satisfying.
(iii) Reference to the "nth degree" of assholery initially made me think of "9th degree", and then of the nine circles of Hell. This led me to revisit the illustrations by William Blake** for Dante's Divine Comedy โ a pursuit I found most worthwhile.
(iv) Along the way, I discovered a fine quote by John Milton, from Paradise Lost, Book I:
The mind is its own place, and in it self Can make a Heav'n of Hell, a Hell of Heav'n.
All in all, it was time well-spent.
__________
Thank you nevertheless for your apology. It's appreciated.
There exists multiple criteria for categorising people and dividing them into different boxes.
One such criterion is their willingness to acknowledge when they made a mistake or possibly made a mistake โ e.g. a slight overreaction, a thoughtless comment, an incorrect or misleading statement of fact, or an overly sweeping generalisation:
- Whether in real life or on a message board like this one, you'll find individuals who will almost invariably double down, keep moving the goal posts, or simply proceed as if nothing happened โ with zero admission of even the possibility they were ever in the wrong.
It could be down to a juvenile pride or pigheadedness, but such reactions are odd because they're self-defeating. Other people aren't stupid or inattentive. And so, even when not expressly called out, it isn't like the behaviour goes by unnoticed. Those who place themselves in this camp just make it more difficult for their peers to hold them in high regard.
- As a merciful counterbalance, however, there are plenty of individuals who will promptly take full ownership, raise their hands, and publicly accept they might have erred.
This is the group you've shown yourself to be part of. And to my mind, it demonstrates honour.
__________
Regarding any expectation of a warm welcome on the Urban Art Association, that may have been aiming too high.
Lower those sights, perhaps drastically, and you could end up pleasantly surprised.
A few thoughts:
1. Bear in mind this forum isn't a monolith, but rather an assortment of individuals from all walks of life, age groups, cultural and socioeconomic backgrounds. There is no consistency in their levels of knowledge, experience, or willingness to assist others.
Moreover, members here have very different interests, priorities, sensibilities, temperaments, and values โ including when it comes to honesty and integrity, or opinions about acceptable degrees thereof.
[In fact, some charming members (who are alright the majority of the time) can, when an opportunity presents itself, become occasional scammers as well.
There is, for example, an unfortunate phenomenon I've witnessed on more than one occasion: Fraud victims, upon realising they've been ripped off, re-selling their fakes to other people in order to recoup their losses โ the original victims thereby in turn becoming fraudsters themselves.
Additionally, you may find individuals promoting or hyping specific art releases while failing to disclose their vested interests in the relevant works, artists, galleries, publishing houses, etc. It is repellent, underhand behaviour.
Even worse in my view are the members who have more than one active forum account. I actually feel let down whenever making these discoveries. Because not only is this choice knowingly deceitful, it is quite often motivated by cowardice. And regardless of any agreeable traits they might have, how does one continue to respect somebody after learning they are also a coward?
If you'll pardon the callback, according to Dante, it seems places are reserved for such forum members in the Eighth Circle of Hell.]
2. The sheer volume of comments posted on this forum makes it necessary to be selective and discriminate. Otherwise, you could easily spend hours each day here, often reading inanities. That would be unhealthy, as well as a poor use of your remaining moments on earth.
It would also restrict the time you'd have to seek out information and perspectives from a wider body of sources. If a disproportionate part of somebody's routine is spent on this forum, I believe their entire outlook will incrementally (even imperceptibly) become evermore narrow.
For this reason, my presence here is kept sporadic. I also focus my attention on posts drafted by members who are consistently informative, perceptive and/or entertaining โ the ones who regularly bring something fresh to the table. These may be people with whom I share obvious affinities or, more interestingly, the ones whose viewpoints are considered yet often at odds with my own.
3. Graffiti and street art are known for their irreverence. They provoke and challenge. They come with attitude.
If only for consistency, we should therefore expect a similar prevailing spirit in the interactions between enthusiasts of these genres.
The Urban Art Association isn't a safe space, unified community, or family home. Perish the thought.
This platform is more like high school, the local pub, or a football terrace โ where someone will yell out, "Oi, your taste in music is crap, and you wear orthopaedic shoes!"
Everyone here then has a choice:
(a) They can interpret such comments as aggressive or mean-spirited, and possibly react by having a hissy fit, followed by a sulk.
(b) Alternatively, they can view such comments as ribbing or lighthearted goading. As harmless entertainment โ where the impact for them is like water off a duck's back.
The best advice I can give would be to choose option (b).
[Imagine being in the shoes of Victoria Beckham when she used to watch her husband play football:
Sitting with her father, along with other family members and friends. Then comes the chant. From literally hundreds of football fans. Singing in unison, as if into one gigantic megaphone:
๐ผ"Post Spice takes it up the arse!"โช โฌ*
Now, query her best course of action in that oft-repeated scenario. Have a strop, or laugh it off?]
To keep things interesting for me, the tone of my own posts constantly shifts. From earnest, to surreal, to piss-taking or sometimes outright mockery. And it's almost always good-natured โ the main exception being when I come across dishonesty.
Personal rules of mine include never posting anything I wouldn't say to somebody's face, or that I'd likely feel embarrassed or ashamed about if it were read (immediately or ten years from now) by family, friends, professional contacts, bosses or employees.
And when responding, unless I have good reason to believe otherwise, I make efforts to give fellow members the benefit of the doubt, by never assuming ill intent.
Despite being a firm republican, Elizabeth II has gradually become an inspiration to me. There is something truly admirable about her default state of cheerful unflappability.
__________
Good luck going forward.
Hope your contribution here will be an active one, and that you'll learn to have fun rolling with the punches.
Hi Met, I do apologize for my outburst. Just felt like it was not being understood on this board and wasnโt warmly welcomed. My sincere apologies. Just to clarify I am not buying all these items I was posting about just curious about their history , background, scarcity things like that. I do only buy items with solid provenance . I hope we can remain friends moving forward as you mentioned, Sincerely and best wishes to all, No worries whatsoever. Your outburst was good value on a number of grounds: (i) I must have read it four or five times before responding. And on each occasion (at least from the second time onwards), I laughed out loud. That's pretty rare. Soon enough, I'm confident you'll be able to appreciate the comedic merit of the situation and share a laugh with me. (ii) As previously mentioned, "wretch" is one of my favourite words. Try saying it in a low guttural manner. It is strangely satisfying. (iii) Reference to the "nth degree" of assholery initially made me think of "9th degree", and then of the nine circles of Hell. This led me to revisit the illustrations by William Blake** for Dante's Divine Comedy โ a pursuit I found most worthwhile. (iv) Along the way, I discovered a fine quote by John Milton, from Paradise Lost, Book I: The mind is its own place, and in it self Can make a Heav'n of Hell, a Hell of Heav'n.All in all, it was time well-spent. __________ Thank you nevertheless for your apology. It's appreciated. There exists multiple criteria for categorising people and dividing them into different boxes. One such criterion is their willingness to acknowledge when they made a mistake or possibly made a mistake โ e.g. a slight overreaction, a thoughtless comment, an incorrect or misleading statement of fact, or an overly sweeping generalisation: - Whether in real life or on a message board like this one, you'll find individuals who will almost invariably double down, keep moving the goal posts, or simply proceed as if nothing happened โ with zero admission of even the possibility they were ever in the wrong. It could be down to a juvenile pride or pigheadedness, but such reactions are odd because they're self-defeating. Other people aren't stupid or inattentive. And so, even when not expressly called out, it isn't like the behaviour goes by unnoticed. Those who place themselves in this camp just make it more difficult for their peers to hold them in high regard. - As a merciful counterbalance, however, there are plenty of individuals who will promptly take full ownership, raise their hands, and publicly accept they might have erred. This is the group you've shown yourself to be part of. And to my mind, it demonstrates honour. __________ Regarding any expectation of a warm welcome on the Ur ban Art Association, that may have been aiming too high. Lower those sights, perhaps drastically, and you could end up pleasantly surprised. A few thoughts:1. Bear in mind this forum isn't a monolith, but rather an assortment of individuals from all walks of life, age groups, cultural and socioeconomic backgrounds. There is no consistency in their levels of knowledge, experience, or willingness to assist others. Moreover, members here have very different interests, priorities, sensibilities, temperaments, and values โ including when it comes to honesty and integrity, or opinions about acceptable degrees thereof. [In fact, some charming members (who are alright the majority of the time) can, when an opportunity presents itself, become occasional scammers as well.
There is, for example, an unfortunate phenomenon I've witnessed on more than one occasion: Fraud victims, upon realising they've been ripped off, re-selling their fakes to other people in order to recoup their losses โ the original victims thereby in turn becoming fraudsters themselves.
Additionally, you may find individuals promoting or hyping specific art releases while failing to disclose their vested interests in the relevant works, artists, galleries, publishing houses, etc. It is repellent, underhand behaviour.
Even worse in my view are the members who have more than one active forum account. I actually feel let down whenever making these discoveries. Because not only is this choice knowingly deceitful, it is quite often motivated by cowardice. And regardless of any agreeable traits they might have, how does one continue to respect somebody after learning they are also a coward?
If you'll pardon the callback, according to Dante, it seems places are reserved for such forum members in the Eighth Circle of Hell.]2. The sheer volume of comments posted on this forum makes it necessary to be selective and discriminate. Otherwise, you could easily spend hours each day here, often reading inanities. That would be unhealthy, as well as a poor use of your remaining moments on earth. It would also restrict the time you'd have to seek out information and perspectives from a wider body of sources. If a disproportionate part of somebody's routine is spent on this forum, I believe their entire outlook will incrementally (even imperceptibly) become evermore narrow. For this reason, my presence here is kept sporadic. I also focus my attention on posts drafted by members who are consistently informative, perceptive and/or entertaining โ the ones who regularly bring something fresh to the table. These may be people with whom I share obvious affinities or, more interestingly, the ones whose viewpoints are considered yet often at odds with my own. 3. Graffiti and street art are known for their irreverence. They provoke and challenge. They come with attitude. If only for consistency, we should therefore expect a similar prevailing spirit in the interactions between enthusiasts of these genres. The Ur ban Art Association isn't a safe space, unified community, or family home. Perish the thought. This platform is more like high school, the local pub, or a football terrace โ where someone will yell out, "Oi, your taste in music is crap, and you wear orthopaedic shoes!" Everyone here then has a choice: (a) They can interpret such comments as aggressive or mean-spirited, and possibly react by having a hissy fit, followed by a sulk. (b) Alternatively, they can view such comments as ribbing or lighthearted goading. As harmless entertainment โ where the impact for them is like water off a duck's back. The best advice I can give would be to choose option (b). [Imagine being in the shoes of Victoria Beckham when she used to watch her husband play football:
Sitting with her father, along with other family members and friends. Then comes the chant. From literally hundreds of football fans. Singing in unison, as if into one gigantic megaphone:๐ผ"Post Spice takes it up the arse!"โช โฌ*Now, query her best course of action in that oft-repeated scenario. Have a strop, or laugh it off?]To keep things interesting for me, the tone of my own posts constantly shifts. From earnest, to surreal, to piss-taking or sometimes outright mockery. And it's almost always good-natured โ the main exception being when I come across dishonesty. Personal rules of mine include never posting anything I wouldn't say to somebody's face, or that I'd likely feel embarrassed or ashamed about if it were read (immediately or ten years from now) by family, friends, professional contacts, bosses or employees. And when responding, unless I have good reason to believe otherwise, I make efforts to give fellow members the benefit of the doubt, by never assuming ill intent. Despite being a firm republican, Elizabeth II has gradually become an inspiration to me. There is something truly admirable about her default state of cheerful unflappability. __________ Good luck going forward. Hope your contribution here will be an active one, and that you'll learn to have fun rolling with the punches.
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,782
Likes โข 6,706
June 2009
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Recommended Art Books, by met on Feb 23, 2022 17:39:05 GMT 1,
Relative and subjective, of course.
But even for a pun, corruption of the art term "Outsider" in the book title is almost as objectionable to me as Martin Whatson's incessant appropriation of Basquiat's three-point crown motif.
And the latter arguably borders on obscene.
Whatson's work is to art what Agadoo by Black Lace* is to music.
Relative and subjective, of course. But even for a pun, corruption of the art term "Outsider" in the book title is almost as objectionable to me as Martin Whatson's incessant appropriation of Basquiat's three-point crown motif. And the latter arguably borders on obscene. What son's work is to art what Agadoo by Black Lace * is to music.
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,782
Likes โข 6,706
June 2009
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What Music are you listening to at the moment ?, by met on Feb 23, 2022 16:06:36 GMT 1, A song and accompanying video that are equally exceptional.
UNKLE, with Mark Lanegan - Another Night Out (2012) - uploaded by UNKLEofficial
A song and accompanying video that are equally exceptional.
UNKLE, with Mark Lanegan - Another Night Out (2012) - uploaded by UNKLEofficial
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,782
Likes โข 6,706
June 2009
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Successful Cover Songs, by met on Feb 23, 2022 16:00:04 GMT 1, Martina Topley-Bird feat. Mark Lanegan & Warpaint - Crystalised (The xx cover, 2013) Topley-Bird being exceptional here, as usual. And a surprisingly remarkable voice from Ferrell, who looks like he's had a few rough years since I last saw him in Anchorman: The Legend of Ron Burgundy. The xx - Crystalised (2009)
Martina Topley-Bird feat. Mark Lanegan & Warpaint - Crystalised (The xx cover, 2013) Topley-Bird being exceptional here, as usual. And a surprisingly remarkable voice from Ferrell, who looks like he's had a few rough years since I last saw him in Anchorman: The Legend of Ron Burgundy. The xx - Crystalised (2009)
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,782
Likes โข 6,706
June 2009
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Robbie Williams Banksy Auction, by met on Feb 23, 2022 15:54:12 GMT 1, Difficult to tell what's parody and what's real these days. Could have been a Black Mirror sketch.
Indeed.
I'm confident the advertisement will serve its purpose, for both Sotheby's and Robbie Williams. But it does leave me with a slight feeling of vicarious embarrassment.
As did Justin Bieber's Girl with Balloon tattoo.
Nice Charlie Brooker* reference, by the way.
Difficult to tell what's parody and what's real these days. Could have been a Black Mirror sketch. Indeed. I'm confident the advertisement will serve its purpose, for both Sotheby's and Robbie Williams. But it does leave me with a slight feeling of vicarious embarrassment. As did Justin Bieber's Girl with Balloon tattoo. Nice Charlie Brooker* reference, by the way.
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,782
Likes โข 6,706
June 2009
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Banksy postcard, by met on Feb 20, 2022 21:10:41 GMT 1, English is not my first language so clearly this is not what I meant. You sir are an asshole of the nth degree. This board is full of losers and miserable wretches. I will not be coming back
To your credit, I wouldn't have guessed English isn't your first language.
The posts you draft are typically reader-friendly, clear and unambiguous:
Excellent spelling, good grammar โ and an impressive vocabulary to boot. There are plenty of native English speakers who don't know the difference between "compliment" and "complement", whereas that doesn't seem an issue for you*. In addition, I generally attribute usage of "wretch" to the bookish and erudite. It is one of the words of yore that happens to be a favourite of mine.
__________
The above is both a hat tip and contextual prelude:
You previously gave me no grounds to hesitate about the meaning of your words. And so, after seeing "unique and original banksy postcards" in your opening post, I assumed you did in fact mean unique and original Banksys in postcard format. At the same time, the possibility of this understanding being incorrect was factored into my reply.
Despite being false in this instance, I trust you'll accept that my inferences were not unreasonable.
For additional context, I'd refer to the large number of new collectors who continue to be duped by "Dismaland Free Art" โ i.e. small-format originals fraudulently or cluelessly attributed to Banksy.
If we combine this sad reality with your own admission last month in the thread, Banksy Devolved Parliament Poster*, that you are "new to collecting", it offers a better indication of where I was coming from:
No just trying to learn what fair prices are in this market. I am new to collecting
Like yourself, many novices are well aware the art market is a minefield.
And so they're already on guard to some extent.
But the added value I can offer is letting those collectors know they should tread with even greater caution. Because, although they have good reason for concern, the specific landmines they're worried about represent but a quarter of the numbers that are actually out there.
[I don't yet have the heart to also warn them about the barbed wire, machine-gun nests, astroturfing, agents provocateurs, and underhand ruses de guerre like enemy combatants wearing friendly uniforms.]
__________
Tangentially, the subject of artist postcards in your opening post also brought to mind a few comments I made in October 2020 in the thread, Show us YOUR - Latest ART BUY*.
These were about two cards acquired by another forum member and attributed to Basquiat. The previous owner supposedly had them authenticated by the Authentication Committee of the Estate of Jean-Michel Basquiat.
My strong recommendation at the time to jakecskis was that he contact the Estate directly and arrange for the purported authentications to be verified. This, instead of relying solely on the assertions and paperwork provided to him by his seller โ which, in the Basquiat market, can be tantamount to relying on blind faith:
JMB mixed media post cards, circa 1981, 1982. Authenticated by the estate of JMB. Although both cards look off to my layperson's eye, no doubt you completed your due diligence โ including verifying the genuineness of the accompanying certificates from the Authentication Committee of the Estate of Jean-Michel Bas quiat (such certificates often being faked). I'm guessing the Estate is able to confirm specific authentications previously issued by the Authentication Committee before the latter disbanded in 2012. Acquired by the collector who had them authenticated with invoices of authorization. Thank you for the follow-up. My earlier post was written with deliberate restraint. The idea was just to probe first, while still highlighting the pervasiveness of counterfeiting in the Bas quiat market. In an effort to retain an initial tone of relative calm, I described these two cards as simply looking "off" to me โ deleting my original, more candid reference to "patently off". Given the level of risk with Bas quiat-attributed work, I believe your checks in this instance were insufficiently thorough. The supporting documentation in your possession also seems inconclusive since it could easily have been forged. __________ You mentioned both of these cards have been authenticated by the Estate of Jean-Michel Basquiat. Although the Estate has long stopped issuing new authentications, my assumption is that it should be able to quickly confirm the genuineness of previously-issued authentication certificates for specified artworks. Such a service is presumably relied upon by all reputable auction houses and dealers. I strongly recommend that you immediately seek out this confirmation by the Estate, if only for peace of mind. In parallel, the cards and their accompanying paperwork can be taken to the appropriate departments at Christie's or Sotheby's for their expert corroborating opinions. If neither path offers you clear written reassurance as to authenticity, then you have almost certainly purchased fakes and should be looking to claim your money back. Good luck with your efforts. Or in summary theyโre fake as f**k. Nope ๐๐ผ The helpful simplicity of your position is that your two cards were purportedly already authenticated by the Authentication Committee of the Estate of Jean-Michel Bas quiat. This is a great advantage, since both authentications can therefore be independently verified by the Estate itself โ i.e. without you having to place any reliance on (or blind faith in) the assurances or paperwork offered by your seller. All the Estate should need from you is a copy of the signed and dated letter certificates previously issued by the Authentication Committee for the cards. Each of your certificates will have: (i) a transaction number; (ii) the details (title, date, medium, size) of the relevant card; (iii) an accompanying photograph; and (iv) a statement along the lines of, "This will certify that the Authentication Committee of the Estate of Jean-Michel Basquiat has examined the work identified above, and is of the opinion that it is a genuine work by Jean-Michel Basquiat." The Estate can then just cross-reference the information against its own records. I hope the verification process regarding authenticity will be a smooth one for you. __________
Just for the avoidance of doubt, no hard feelings about the "asshole" quip.
Many people will reflexively lash out if they sense they've been slighted, especially before an audience. It isn't a big deal.
[I've also heard far worse โ including comments that really did test my composure and natural state of bemused emotional detachment. In a fit of pique, an old flame of mine once called me dull. This was during our courtship period. My immediate thought was, "I've got to watch out with this one. She already knows how to really hurt me."]
There was probably some confusion by you regarding my intent, and I do understand the importance of perceived intent. During online interactions, it can be difficult to gauge an interlocutor's motive and tone. And while deliberately forthright, it isn't a surprise to me that my communication style can at times be grating for some members, and misconstrued.
Separately, although I constantly seek out nuances and minor distinctions between ideas, things and people (perhaps the narcissism of small differences), I make efforts as well to find common ground.
And what you and I have together is the shared belief there exists multiple degrees of assholery. For me, that is by no means trivial. I could imagine the two of us even bonding on this topic in the years to come. Who knows? We might also end up discussing the multiple degrees of defensiveness or throwing one's toys out of the pram.
__________
lobio โ I therefore hope you will reconsider, come back, keep reading and keep contributing to this forum.
Because we need all sorts of participants and perspectives here.
Vive la diffรฉrence.
English is not my first language so clearly this is not what I meant. You sir are an asshole of the nth degree. This board is full of losers and miserable wretches. I will not be coming back To your credit, I wouldn't have guessed English isn't your first language. The posts you draft are typically reader-friendly, clear and unambiguous: Excellent spelling, good grammar โ and an impressive vocabulary to boot. There are plenty of native English speakers who don't know the difference between "compliment" and "complement", whereas that doesn't seem an issue for you *. In addition, I generally attribute usage of "wretch" to the bookish and erudite. It is one of the words of yore that happens to be a favourite of mine. __________ The above is both a hat tip and contextual prelude: You previously gave me no grounds to hesitate about the meaning of your words. And so, after seeing "unique and original banksy postcards" in your opening post, I assumed you did in fact mean unique and original Ban ksys in postcard format. At the same time, the possibility of this understanding being incorrect was factored into my reply. Despite being false in this instance, I trust you'll accept that my inferences were not unreasonable. For additional context, I'd refer to the large number of new collectors who continue to be duped by "Dismaland Free Art" โ i.e. small-format originals fraudulently or cluelessly attributed to Ban ksy. If we combine this sad reality with your own admission last month in the thread, Banksy Devolved Parliament Poster*, that you are "new to collecting", it offers a better indication of where I was coming from: No just trying to learn what fair prices are in this market. I am new to collecting Like yourself, many novices are well aware the art market is a minefield. And so they're already on guard to some extent. But the added value I can offer is letting those collectors know they should tread with even greater caution. Because, although they have good reason for concern, the specific landmines they're worried about represent but a quarter of the numbers that are actually out there. [I don't yet have the heart to also warn them about the barbed wire, machine-gun nests, astroturfing, agents provocateurs, and underhand ruses de guerre like enemy combatants wearing friendly uniforms.]__________ Tangentially, the subject of artist postcards in your opening post also brought to mind a few comments I made in October 2020 in the thread, Show us YOUR - Latest ART BUY*. These were about two cards acquired by another forum member and attributed to Basquiat. The previous owner supposedly had them authenticated by the Authentication Committee of the Estate of Jean-Michel Bas quiat. My strong recommendation at the time to jakecskis was that he contact the Estate directly and arrange for the purported authentications to be verified. This, instead of relying solely on the assertions and paperwork provided to him by his seller โ which, in the Bas quiat market, can be tantamount to relying on blind faith: JMB mixed media post cards, circa 1981, 1982. Authenticated by the estate of JMB. Although both cards look off to my layperson's eye, no doubt you completed your due diligence โ including verifying the genuineness of the accompanying certificates from the Authentication Committee of the Estate of Jean-Michel Bas quiat (such certificates often being faked). I'm guessing the Estate is able to confirm specific authentications previously issued by the Authentication Committee before the latter disbanded in 2012. Acquired by the collector who had them authenticated with invoices of authorization. Thank you for the follow-up. My earlier post was written with deliberate restraint. The idea was just to probe first, while still highlighting the pervasiveness of counterfeiting in the Bas quiat market. In an effort to retain an initial tone of relative calm, I described these two cards as simply looking "off" to me โ deleting my original, more candid reference to "patently off". Given the level of risk with Bas quiat-attributed work, I believe your checks in this instance were insufficiently thorough. The supporting documentation in your possession also seems inconclusive since it could easily have been forged. __________ You mentioned both of these cards have been authenticated by the Estate of Jean-Michel Basquiat. Although the Estate has long stopped issuing new authentications, my assumption is that it should be able to quickly confirm the genuineness of previously-issued authentication certificates for specified artworks. Such a service is presumably relied upon by all reputable auction houses and dealers. I strongly recommend that you immediately seek out this confirmation by the Estate, if only for peace of mind. In parallel, the cards and their accompanying paperwork can be taken to the appropriate departments at Christie's or Sotheby's for their expert corroborating opinions. If neither path offers you clear written reassurance as to authenticity, then you have almost certainly purchased fakes and should be looking to claim your money back. Good luck with your efforts. Or in summary theyโre fake as f**k. Nope ๐๐ผ The helpful simplicity of your position is that your two cards were purportedly already authenticated by the Authentication Committee of the Estate of Jean-Michel Bas quiat. This is a great advantage, since both authentications can therefore be independently verified by the Estate itself โ i.e. without you having to place any reliance on (or blind faith in) the assurances or paperwork offered by your seller. All the Estate should need from you is a copy of the signed and dated letter certificates previously issued by the Authentication Committee for the cards. Each of your certificates will have: (i) a transaction number; (ii) the details (title, date, medium, size) of the relevant card; (iii) an accompanying photograph; and (iv) a statement along the lines of, "This will certify that the Authentication Committee of the Estate of Jean-Michel Basquiat has examined the work identified above, and is of the opinion that it is a genuine work by Jean-Michel Basquiat." The Estate can then just cross-reference the information against its own records. I hope the verification process regarding authenticity will be a smooth one for you. __________ Just for the avoidance of doubt, no hard feelings about the "asshole" quip. Many people will reflexively lash out if they sense they've been slighted, especially before an audience. It isn't a big deal. [I've also heard far worse โ including comments that really did test my composure and natural state of bemused emotional detachment. In a fit of pique, an old flame of mine once called me dull. This was during our courtship period. My immediate thought was, "I've got to watch out with this one. She already knows how to really hurt me."]There was probably some confusion by you regarding my intent, and I do understand the importance of perceived intent. During online interactions, it can be difficult to gauge an interlocutor's motive and tone. And while deliberately forthright, it isn't a surprise to me that my communication style can at times be grating for some members, and misconstrued. Separately, although I constantly seek out nuances and minor distinctions between ideas, things and people (perhaps the narcissism of small differences), I make efforts as well to find common ground. And what you and I have together is the shared belief there exists multiple degrees of assholery. For me, that is by no means trivial. I could imagine the two of us even bonding on this topic in the years to come. Who knows? We might also end up discussing the multiple degrees of defensiveness or throwing one's toys out of the pram. __________ lobio โ I therefore hope you will reconsider, come back, keep reading and keep contributing to this forum. Because we need all sorts of participants and perspectives here. Vive la diffรฉrence.
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met
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Banksy postcard, by met on Feb 19, 2022 19:36:21 GMT 1, Looking for unique and original banksy postcards, let me know if you have anything interesting
What the above indicates to me is that you were led to believe Banksy created unique and original postcards โ i.e. one-off originals in postcard format. And you accepted this information at face value.
Now, my understanding of the situation could easily be wrong. If so, then what follows may be redundant. Or, it might still have some relevance to your circumstances.
But if my understanding were correct, it calls into question your judgement.
In which case, I would counsel putting on ice for six months any plans to purchase additional Banksy-related items. Spend that time simply learning instead, building up your knowledge base on the artist's output, and becoming more critically-minded โ in particular, quicker to challenge your information sources (including individuals on this forum), and to question their credibility.
Following such advice will require discipline. And self-awareness, of course. Because without the latter, your enemy, hubris, risks taking the upper hand.
It is hubris that could lead you to think this guidance can safely be ignored because it doesn't really apply to you. It will be hubris pushing you to believe that, actually, you know better.
"A little learning is a dang'rous thing"
__________
Your forum profile indicates you've been a member of the Urban Art Association for just less than a month, since 21 January 2022.
And in the space of a month, you started 21 new threads, many of them being 'In Search Of' by nature. That alone screams of impatience on a level I would call worrisome.
In one of these threads, BANKSY - CANS FESTIVAL - VERY RARE LIMITED EDITION - GOOD CO*, there was a brief exchange on 23 January with Terry Fuckwitt, when they suggested you may wish to read a post I'd written the previous day. My post warned of the dangers of impatience โ especially for collectors who are relatively ignorant and inexperienced:
Although it was originally drafted for the benefit of a different forum member, Terry Fuckwitt was effectively saying that post might nevertheless also be applicable to you.
Based on your post history (including the number of subsequent threads you started after 23 January), I would share this view. Because you do come across as a mark, more so than as a cautious, informed collector.
An illustration can be found in the Banksy greenpeace* thread you started on 2 February, in connection with an item alleged to have originated from Greenpeace:
Any tips for telling apart the legit vs fakes ? My question is how to discern fakes from originals. Whatโs the process you go through to determine most are fakes ? Thank you all, and thanks disturbart for the offer. Yes definitely offset lithograph looking through the loop, very clear rosetting observable and also have confirmation itโs on recycled paper. Bought from gallery while back with gallery COA but always want to double check. so thatโs a good start I guessโฆwill keep you all updated. What gallery did you buy it from?
What this demonstrates is a seemingly-oblivious willingness on your part to deal with the likes of Arts Limited โ a disreputable entity known, among other things, for issuing worthless certificates of authenticity.
From what I can gather, you bought first, and only chose to ask questions later.
If that isn't a bright red flag to your eyes, and a clear warning sign that you're in over your head, then you are indulging in self-delusion. It would truly be in your interest if you could tell yourself to snap out of it and wake up.
I hope my straightforward, candid approach here won't be mistaken for rudeness.
__________
It's worth adding I fully understand this advice will probably be a killjoy, and therefore unwanted.
I'm also conscious that putting it down in writing risks making me appear like a pompous tit โ which is rarely an attractive look. Moreover, spending time on posts like these certainly isn't my idea of fun. I would rather be rewatching a film by Wes Anderson or the Coen brothers.
The reason I do it is out of a peculiar sense of duty towards strangers on the internet who happen to be art enthusiasts.
If my public interventions push some of them to reflect a little bit more, and do further research โ thereby lessening the chances of them getting ripped off, or making unwise purchase decisions (including buying trite art) โ then that is one ongoing duty I will at least have partially fulfilled.
Looking for unique and original banksy postcards, let me know if you have anything interesting What the above indicates to me is that you were led to believe Banksy created unique and original postcards โ i.e. one-off originals in postcard format. And you accepted this information at face value. Now, my understanding of the situation could easily be wrong. If so, then what follows may be redundant. Or, it might still have some relevance to your circumstances. But if my understanding were correct, it calls into question your judgement. In which case, I would counsel putting on ice for six months any plans to purchase additional Ban ksy-related items. Spend that time simply learning instead, building up your knowledge base on the artist's output, and becoming more critically-minded โ in particular, quicker to challenge your information sources (including individuals on this forum), and to question their credibility. Following such advice will require discipline. And self-awareness, of course. Because without the latter, your enemy, hubris, risks taking the upper hand. It is hubris that could lead you to think this guidance can safely be ignored because it doesn't really apply to you. It will be hubris pushing you to believe that, actually, you know better. "A little learning is a dang'rous thing"__________ Your forum profile indicates you've been a member of the Ur ban Art Association for just less than a month, since 21 January 2022. And in the space of a month, you started 21 new threads, many of them being 'In Search Of' by nature. That alone screams of impatience on a level I would call worrisome. In one of these threads, BANKSY - CANS FESTIVAL - VERY RARE LIMITED EDITION - GOOD CO*, there was a brief exchange on 23 January with Terry Fuckwitt, when they suggested you may wish to read a post I'd written the previous day. My post warned of the dangers of impatience โ especially for collectors who are relatively ignorant and inexperienced: Although it was originally drafted for the benefit of a different forum member, Terry Fuckwitt was effectively saying that post might nevertheless also be applicable to you. Based on your post history (including the number of subsequent threads you started after 23 January), I would share this view. Because you do come across as a mark, more so than as a cautious, informed collector. An illustration can be found in the Banksy greenpeace* thread you started on 2 February, in connection with an item alleged to have originated from Greenpeace: Any tips for telling apart the legit vs fakes ? My question is how to discern fakes from originals. Whatโs the process you go through to determine most are fakes ? Thank you all, and thanks disturbart for the offer. Yes definitely offset lithograph looking through the loop, very clear rosetting observable and also have confirmation itโs on recycled paper. Bought from gallery while back with gallery COA but always want to double check. so thatโs a good start I guessโฆwill keep you all updated. What gallery did you buy it from? What this demonstrates is a seemingly-oblivious willingness on your part to deal with the likes of Arts Limited โ a disreputable entity known, among other things, for issuing worthless certificates of authenticity. From what I can gather, you bought first, and only chose to ask questions later. If that isn't a bright red flag to your eyes, and a clear warning sign that you're in over your head, then you are indulging in self-delusion. It would truly be in your interest if you could tell yourself to snap out of it and wake up. I hope my straightforward, candid approach here won't be mistaken for rudeness. __________ It's worth adding I fully understand this advice will probably be a killjoy, and therefore unwanted. I'm also conscious that putting it down in writing risks making me appear like a pompous t it โ which is rarely an attractive look. Moreover, spending time on posts like these certainly isn't my idea of fun. I would rather be rewatching a film by Wes Anderson or the Coen brothers. The reason I do it is out of a peculiar sense of duty towards strangers on the internet who happen to be art enthusiasts. If my public interventions push some of them to reflect a little bit more, and do further research โ thereby lessening the chances of them getting ripped off, or making unwise purchase decisions (including buying trite art) โ then that is one ongoing duty I will at least have partially fulfilled.
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met
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June 2009
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Nicolas Party 2022 New Print Edition, by met on Feb 18, 2022 21:17:28 GMT 1, [...] This is too thin IMO.
Consider removing the window mat, and reducing the length and width of the moulding accordingly.
[...] This is too thin IMO. Consider removing the window mat, and reducing the length and width of the moulding accordingly.
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met
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Nicolas Party 2022 New Print Edition, by met on Feb 18, 2022 20:55:03 GMT 1, I really like the framing option on artspace. But a thinner frame would probably look even better. Of course to an extent framing is a matter of personal taste (I say only to an extent as I think it is quite acceptable to say some framing is simply bad, even if some people like it). I think the framing option offered for this beautiful print is terrible. It is far too heavy for such a delicate image. That frame detracts from the image; draws your eyes away from it. I would suggest a much more delicate black box frame (at least half the width of the suggested frame) is appropriate (as you have suggested). Regardless, I am envious of anyone who bought one of these prints. I agree with your framing suggestions above, this reminds me slightly of the type of illustrations done by Aubrey Beardsley. Examples of the framing of his pieces can be seen on the Tate website which would suit this piece also. Well indeed! If you read my earlier post in this thread you will see that have said that this print also reminds me of Aubrey Beardsley. Great minds...!
It is reassuring to learn there are some Aubrey Beardsley enthusiasts here.
Some of his illustrations remain shocking to this day. They're among the most subversive and radical I've ever seen โ making an image like Banksy's Queen Vic look positively quaint by comparison.
I really like the framing option on artspace. But a thinner frame would probably look even better. Of course to an extent framing is a matter of personal taste (I say only to an extent as I think it is quite acceptable to say some framing is simply bad, even if some people like it). I think the framing option offered for this beautiful print is terrible. It is far too heavy for such a delicate image. That frame detracts from the image; draws your eyes away from it. I would suggest a much more delicate black box frame (at least half the width of the suggested frame) is appropriate (as you have suggested). Regardless, I am envious of anyone who bought one of these prints. I agree with your framing suggestions above, this reminds me slightly of the type of illustrations done by Aubrey Beardsley. Examples of the framing of his pieces can be seen on the Tate website which would suit this piece also. Well indeed! If you read my earlier post in this thread you will see that have said that this print also reminds me of Aubrey Beardsley. Great minds...! It is reassuring to learn there are some Aubrey Beardsley enthusiasts here. Some of his illustrations remain shocking to this day. They're among the most subversive and radical I've ever seen โ making an image like Ban ksy's Queen Vic look positively quaint by comparison.
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met
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Successful Cover Songs, by met on Feb 18, 2022 7:05:30 GMT 1, July Talk (Peter Dreimanis and Leah Fay) - Venus Stop The Train (2012) - uploaded by majesticsilk
Wilco - Venus Stop The Train (Demo, circa 2000โ2001) - uploaded by jesรบs flores
July Talk (Peter Dreimanis and Leah Fay) - Venus Stop The Train (2012) - uploaded by majesticsilk
Wilco - Venus Stop The Train (Demo, circa 2000โ2001) - uploaded by jesรบs flores
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met
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Successful Cover Songs, by met on Feb 18, 2022 6:52:16 GMT 1, This is a beautiful cover of Laid. The original is sublime, but I do love this version.
The substance and tone of your words could suggest an assumption that others will immediately know what you're referring to.
But since the original song was released over 28 years ago, in 1993, I'm guessing a not-insignificant proportion of members here had yet been born.
For their benefit, as well as for the nostalgia-indulging old-timers, below is one version of the video by James.
James - Laid (Version 2) (1993) - uploaded by JamesVEVO
__________
And here's another cover of the song, filmed during lockdown in December 2020, highlighting just how joyful music can be. It's by July Talk, my most interesting Canadian discovery since Crash and the Boys*:
July Talk - Laid (James Cover) (2020) - uploaded by JULY TALK
This is a beautiful cover of Laid. The original is sublime, but I do love this version. The substance and tone of your words could suggest an assumption that others will immediately know what you're referring to. But since the original song was released over 28 years ago, in 1993, I'm guessing a not-insignificant proportion of members here had yet been born. For their benefit, as well as for the nostalgia-indulging old-timers, below is one version of the video by James. James - Laid (Version 2) (1993)- uploaded by JamesVEVO__________ And here's another cover of the song, filmed during lockdown in December 2020, highlighting just how joyful music can be. It's by July Talk, my most interesting Canadian discovery since Crash and the Boys*: July Talk - Laid (James Cover) (2020)- uploaded by JULY TALK
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met
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Successful Cover Songs, by met on Feb 18, 2022 6:03:40 GMT 1,
Had never previously heard of Carcass. Won't be rushing out to buy a bedroom poster, but I did get some satisfaction from my efforts to train my ear to new sounds.
The Viktoriya Yermolyeva cover was a good watch. I enjoyed the aggressive piano playing, and chuckled when a string snapped at 1:58. Likewise during the initial full-context shot (nine seconds in), when her boots became visible.
Had never previously heard of Carcass. Won't be rushing out to buy a bedroom poster, but I did get some satisfaction from my efforts to train my ear to new sounds. The Viktoriya Yermolyeva cover was a good watch. I enjoyed the aggressive piano playing, and chuckled when a string snapped at 1:58. Likewise during the initial full-context shot (nine seconds in), when her boots became visible.
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met
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Successful Cover Songs, by met on Feb 18, 2022 5:22:24 GMT 1,
Although repetitive on my part, as a visual person, I'll add Cyrin's video with footage from The Mysterious Lady (1928).
Maxence Cyrin - Where Is My Mind (The Pixies Piano cover, 2018) - uploaded by Maxence Cyrin
Although repetitive on my part, as a visual person, I'll add Cyrin's video with footage from The Mysterious Lady (1928). Maxence Cyrin - Where Is My Mind (The Pixies Piano cover, 2018)- uploaded by Maxence Cyrin
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met
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The Grey Ghost has passedโฆ, by met on Feb 18, 2022 4:55:36 GMT 1, Do you by any chance have a photo of the boy playing the trumpet that used to be on a door of an abandoned house in the 9th ward? Iโm searching my files and I canโt find that one!!!
Two locations popped up when I did a Google Images search for "Banksy trumpet New Orleans".
The first image below is from a Wooster Collective post.
www.woostercollective.com/post/fresh-stuff-from-banksy-on-the-streets-of-new-orleans
And I donโt know what I always spell โgrayโ as โgreyโ. Itโs a tick I guess.
Both are correct โ although "gray" is more common in American English, while "grey" is the norm in British English.
Do you by any chance have a photo of the boy playing the trumpet that used to be on a door of an abandoned house in the 9th ward? Iโm searching my files and I canโt find that one!!! Two locations popped up when I did a Google Images search for "Banksy trumpet New Orleans". The first image below is from a Wooster Collective post. www.woostercollective.com/post/fresh-stuff-from-banksy-on-the-streets-of-new-orleansAnd I donโt know what I always spell โgrayโ as โgreyโ. Itโs a tick I guess. Both are correct โ although "gray" is more common in American English, while "grey" is the norm in British English.
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met
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The Grey Ghost has passedโฆ, by met on Feb 18, 2022 4:36:29 GMT 1, I NEVER KNEW THAT!!!! Wellllllโฆthat was eye opening!!! Thatโs nutso!! I stand corrected!!!im actually embarrassed that I did not know that on all my bike rides to that location!!! Are you NOLA based? I have old photos of most of the Banksy pieces minus the robbers stealing the TVโs from the wall on Elysian Fieldsโฆ But it makes me feel 1000% better that it wasnโt some a-hole who chipped off the ratโฆthank you thank you thank youโฆ
London-based.
And you're welcome. Happy to be of service from afar.
I would add that yours was a reasonably-held erred belief, when taking into account the typical fate of Banksy street pieces.
In addition, the mild embarrassment you might be experiencing is only temporary. It is insignificant compared to the amusing story you now have. Play your cards right, and you've got a lifetime of dinner-party laughs.
I NEVER KNEW THAT!!!! Wellllllโฆthat was eye opening!!! Thatโs nutso!! I stand corrected!!!im actually embarrassed that I did not know that on all my bike rides to that location!!! Are you NOLA based? I have old photos of most of the Banksy pieces minus the robbers stealing the TVโs from the wall on Elysian Fieldsโฆ But it makes me feel 1000% better that it wasnโt some a-hole who chipped off the ratโฆthank you thank you thank youโฆ London-based. And you're welcome. Happy to be of service from afar. I would add that yours was a reasonably-held erred belief, when taking into account the typical fate of Ban ksy street pieces. In addition, the mild embarrassment you might be experiencing is only temporary. It is insignificant compared to the amusing story you now have. Play your cards right, and you've got a lifetime of dinner-party laughs.
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met
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The Grey Ghost has passedโฆ, by met on Feb 18, 2022 3:52:08 GMT 1, Wasn't previously aware Fred Radtke had died, so thank you for posting. Good read. And a fitting tribute by the article's author, Doug MacCash. Although I disagreed with his position, or rather its lack of nuance and discrimination, Radtke was formidable. He had conviction, and by god he was committed. Difficult not to respect that level of commitment from an adversary, even if it crossed over into obsession. The Grey/Gray Ghost was also what the scene needs. So MacCash's reference to mutual dependence is entirely apt. After all, what is graffiti? Without the cops, the authorities more generally, and private individuals like Radtke, it certainly would not be the graffiti that many of us love. awesome review yourself!!! Iโm from NOLA and thought it was something this forum would like to readโฆFred Radtke was formidableโฆ im more pissed though at all the people that painted over Banksyโs art or completely stole the works off the walls. There used to be a girl on a stool being scared by a little rat that was in town by Banksy. Someone actually chipped out the rat right along itโs edgesโฆhalf the tail was left because of them. Thereโs a special place in hell for that person / personsโฆ Just like everything in life, thereโs differing opinionsโฆand Fred Radtke definitely was either loved or hated in NOLAโฆ rest in peaceโฆ
Assuming you're referring to the former Tremรฉ piece, that was a case of the artist playing with the existing surroundings.
It was Banksy who created a rat from the shape left by some exposed brickwork (after the render had already cracked and fallen away), as opposed to some clown having later chipped out the rat.
I hope this will help to shift the story for you โ from previously-irritating to feel-good.
Wasn't previously aware Fred Radtke had died, so thank you for posting. Good read. And a fitting tribute by the article's author, Doug MacCash. Although I disagreed with his position, or rather its lack of nuance and discrimination, Radtke was formidable. He had conviction, and by god he was committed. Difficult not to respect that level of commitment from an adversary, even if it crossed over into obsession. The Grey/Gray Ghost was also what the scene needs. So MacCash's reference to mutual dependence is entirely apt. After all, what is graffiti? Without the cops, the authorities more generally, and private individuals like Radtke, it certainly would not be the graffiti that many of us love. awesome review yourself!!! Iโm from NOLA and thought it was something this forum would like to readโฆFred Radtke was formidableโฆ im more pissed though at all the people that painted over Banksyโs art or completely stole the works off the walls. There used to be a girl on a stool being scared by a little rat that was in town by Banksy. Someone actually chipped out the rat right along itโs edgesโฆhalf the tail was left because of them. Thereโs a special place in hell for that person / personsโฆ Just like everything in life, thereโs differing opinionsโฆand Fred Radtke definitely was either loved or hated in NOLAโฆ rest in peaceโฆ Assuming you're referring to the former Tremรฉ piece, that was a case of the artist playing with the existing surroundings. It was Ban ksy who created a rat from the shape left by some exposed brickwork (after the render had already cracked and fallen away), as opposed to some clown having later chipped out the rat. I hope this will help to shift the story for you โ from previously-irritating to feel-good.
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met
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The Grey Ghost has passedโฆ, by met on Feb 18, 2022 1:42:03 GMT 1,
Wasn't previously aware Fred Radtke had died, so thank you for posting.
Good read. And a fitting tribute by the article's author, Doug MacCash.
Although I disagreed with his position, or rather its lack of nuance and discrimination, Radtke was formidable. He had conviction, and by god he was committed. Difficult not to respect that level of commitment from an adversary, even if it crossed over into obsession.
The Grey/Gray Ghost was also what the scene needs. So MacCash's reference to mutual dependence is entirely apt.
After all, what is graffiti?
Without the cops, the authorities more generally, and private individuals like Radtke, it certainly would not be the graffiti that many of us love.
Wasn't previously aware Fred Radtke had died, so thank you for posting. Good read. And a fitting tribute by the article's author, Doug MacCash. Although I disagreed with his position, or rather its lack of nuance and discrimination, Radtke was formidable. He had conviction, and by god he was committed. Difficult not to respect that level of commitment from an adversary, even if it crossed over into obsession. The Grey/Gray Ghost was also what the scene needs. So MacCash's reference to mutual dependence is entirely apt. After all, what is graffiti? Without the cops, the authorities more generally, and private individuals like Radtke, it certainly would not be the graffiti that many of us love.
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met
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Banksy posters, by met on Feb 18, 2022 0:53:32 GMT 1, Hi all, I am looking into getting some banksy posters for my collection but donโt know which might be the most interesting to collect ? Exhibition posters ? Others ? Thanks ! The most interesting ones are the ones you like! Which ones do you think are interesting?
Regardless of your motivation (including perhaps playful ribbing), this is truly an excellent question.
I am therefore a little disappointed it looks to have been dismissed.
It is the question every art collector should be asking each and every time they view individual pieces or consider wider bodies of work.
The requisite follow-up question of course is, "Why exactly do I find this interesting?"
In other words, "What are the specific reasons why this art is any good, rather than 'Not good'?"
My own position would be that buyers who don't ask themselves questions like these whenever they look at art, or who are incapable of clearly articulating their replies, shouldn't yet be describing themselves as art collectors.
I suspect that, more likely than not, such buyers are still at the stage of being easily-led and susceptible to hype โ allowing other people or groups of people to think for them, and being more prone to buying with their ears.
Hi all, I am looking into getting some banksy posters for my collection but donโt know which might be the most interesting to collect ? Exhibition posters ? Others ? Thanks ! The most interesting ones are the ones you like! Which ones do you think are interesting?Regardless of your motivation (including perhaps playful ribbing), this is truly an excellent question. I am therefore a little disappointed it looks to have been dismissed. It is the question every art collector should be asking each and every time they view individual pieces or consider wider bodies of work. The requisite follow-up question of course is, "Why exactly do I find this interesting?"In other words, "What are the specific reasons why this art is any good, rather than 'Not good'?"My own position would be that buyers who don't ask themselves questions like these whenever they look at art, or who are incapable of clearly articulating their replies, shouldn't yet be describing themselves as art collectors. I suspect that, more likely than not, such buyers are still at the stage of being easily-led and susceptible to hype โ allowing other people or groups of people to think for them, and being more prone to buying with their ears.
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met
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Show everyone your latest Art Purchase?, by met on Feb 13, 2022 2:02:01 GMT 1, Found out about Jing Zhiyong from UAA, added this beauty to my collection
Hope you don't mind that I zoomed in for a closer look.
Wasn't previously familiar with Jing Zhiyong.
Congratulations on your purchase.
It's a lovely painting. Nicely executed in a minimalist style. Playful, whimsical, even hopeful.
I would hang this work in my own home.
EDIT:
For me, the palette, aesthetic and sensibility of your painting are comparable to Edward Hopper:
Found out about Jing Zhiyong from UAA, added this beauty to my collection Hope you don't mind that I zoomed in for a closer look. Wasn't previously familiar with Jing Zhiyong. Congratulations on your purchase. It's a lovely painting. Nicely executed in a minimalist style. Playful, whimsical, even hopeful. I would hang this work in my own home. EDIT: For me, the palette, aesthetic and sensibility of your painting are comparable to Edward Hopper:
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met
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Ai Weiwei - Treadmill edition, by met on Feb 10, 2022 20:41:15 GMT 1, One hopes the use of this photo of British actor Benedict Wong was simply due to his hand gesture โ flipping the bird being the intended reference to Ai Weiwei. Who was Benedict Wong playing as in this photo? Ah, of course.
Sincere and embarrassed apologies to you, MattWolf.
It must have been rare emotion that triggered my unfortunate knee-jerk response.
One hopes the use of this photo of British actor Benedict Wong was simply due to his hand gesture โ flipping the bird being the intended reference to Ai Weiwei. Who was Benedict Wong playing as in this photo? Ah, of course. Sincere and embarrassed apologies to you, MattWolf. It must have been rare emotion that triggered my unfortunate knee-jerk response.
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,782
Likes โข 6,706
June 2009
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Ai Weiwei - Treadmill edition, by met on Feb 10, 2022 20:29:28 GMT 1, How can you guys support an antivaxxer and a spreader of misinformation? What does his stance on vaccination have to with his art? His politics is his art
One hopes the use of this photo of British actor Benedict Wong was simply due to his hand gesture โ flipping the bird being the intended reference to Ai Weiwei.
How can you guys support an antivaxxer and a spreader of misinformation? What does his stance on vaccination have to with his art? His politics is his art One hopes the use of this photo of British actor Benedict Wong was simply due to his hand gesture โ flipping the bird being the intended reference to Ai Weiwei.
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,782
Likes โข 6,706
June 2009
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Damien Hirst H10 โข The Empresses, by met on Feb 10, 2022 18:17:13 GMT 1, Buyers, just frame the fucking thing behind glass. It cost over 3 grand. A couple of hundred to have it professionally framed and protected from dust or some idiot sneezing on it really shouldn't be an issue for you. Non buyers, relax. You didn't buy it! Indeed, I wouldn't dream of hanging a piece on the wall like this unless framed behind glass for protection, glitter or no glitter. You are, of course, free to frame them if you wish. But it is standard practice NOT to frame dibond prints. Look at the Heni exhibition; all not framed. Also Tate Modern has a dibond by Richter; again, not framed.
It is important to compare like for like.
__________
To the extent there may be any glitter-coated or other textured-surface prints in Tate's collection, they will certainly be protected by glazing.
Regarding the Heni exhibition, keep in mind the specific circumstances and objectives. For Heni, this was about marketing. Selling. And therefore about presenting the prints in the most attractive light.
So of course that meant without glazing. Because glazing would not only distract the viewer's eye, it would diminish the impact of a key part of the artwork's appeal โ i.e. its textured surface, and the contrast between matt and shiny.
Heni did not need to give serious thought to the protection of its exhibition prints, because those ones were never intended to stay up long-term.
__________
If looking at this from the perspective of standard practice, consider what an experienced and informed collector or institution would do with a diamond dust print.
It really would surprise me if any of them framed such a print without protective glazing.
Buyers, just frame the fucking thing behind glass. It cost over 3 grand. A couple of hundred to have it professionally framed and protected from dust or some idiot sneezing on it really shouldn't be an issue for you. Non buyers, relax. You didn't buy it! Indeed, I wouldn't dream of hanging a piece on the wall like this unless framed behind glass for protection, glitter or no glitter. You are, of course, free to frame them if you wish. But it is standard practice NOT to frame dibond prints. Look at the Heni exhibition; all not framed. Also Tate Modern has a dibond by Richter; again, not framed. It is important to compare like for like. __________ To the extent there may be any glitter-coated or other textured-surface prints in Tate's collection, they will certainly be protected by glazing. Regarding the Heni exhibition, keep in mind the specific circumstances and objectives. For Heni, this was about marketing. Selling. And therefore about presenting the prints in the most attractive light. So of course that meant without glazing. Because glazing would not only distract the viewer's eye, it would diminish the impact of a key part of the artwork's appeal โ i.e. its textured surface, and the contrast between matt and shiny. Heni did not need to give serious thought to the protection of its exhibition prints, because those ones were never intended to stay up long-term. __________ If looking at this from the perspective of standard practice, consider what an experienced and informed collector or institution would do with a diamond dust print. It really would surprise me if any of them framed such a print without protective glazing.
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