met
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June 2009
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Damien Hirst H10 โข The Empresses, by met on Feb 10, 2022 15:21:04 GMT 1, For argument's sake, let us assume we don't know. That we haven't got a clue about whether or not the glitter has actually been sealed. What the photographic evidence does show is that the surface has a texture prone to snagging dusting cloths. And so, how much of a difference would it make in practice to an owner-collector if the glitter were sealed or unsealed? Either way, the artwork, if hung as it is and unwisely left unglazed, will become a dust magnet โ and difficult if not a nightmare to clean. Quote: "how much of a difference would it make in practice to an owner-collector if the glitter were sealed or unsealed?" The difference is ****ing huge! One will be a nightmare for dust and fluff. The other will not.
If what a buyer ends up receiving is the same as or similar to the piece in the photos below, for me it already does look like a cleaning nightmare โ whether or not the glitter on that piece happens to be sealed.
Hence why I believe it would be unwise to hang it without a separate frame and glazing.
For argument's sake, let us assume we don't know. That we haven't got a clue about whether or not the glitter has actually been sealed. What the photographic evidence does show is that the surface has a texture prone to snagging dusting cloths. And so, how much of a difference would it make in practice to an owner-collector if the glitter were sealed or unsealed? Either way, the artwork, if hung as it is and unwisely left unglazed, will become a dust magnet โ and difficult if not a nightmare to clean. Quote: "how much of a difference would it make in practice to an owner-collector if the glitter were sealed or unsealed?" The difference is ****ing huge! One will be a nightmare for dust and fluff. The other will not. If what a buyer ends up receiving is the same as or similar to the piece in the photos below, for me it already does look like a cleaning nightmare โ whether or not the glitter on that piece happens to be sealed. Hence why I believe it would be unwise to hang it without a separate frame and glazing.
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met
Junior Member
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June 2009
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Damien Hirst H10 โข The Empresses, by met on Feb 10, 2022 14:59:28 GMT 1, 1. I have no interest in The Empresses by Damien Hirst. Because I find the art frankly dull. And not especially attractive. It isn't work that engages me โ whether intellectually, emotionally, or even decoratively. 2. That said, I've entered this thread because its content is clogging up the New Posts section of the forum. 3. The glitter description is very clear to me: (i) laminate; (ii) glitter screenprinted above the laminate; and (iii) glitter sealed. 4. It seems much of the confusion relates to "sealed". Perhaps there aren't enough members who did arts and crafts at school. 5. Although "sealed" could mean more than one thing, with glitter it normally refers to the use of a sealing spray. The glitter can still be felt afterwards, its texture is still there โ but it's covered with a thin coat of adhesive or resin to make it less likely to flake away afterwards. 6. Do your research. Just Google "glitter seal" and check for yourselves. So that we can move on and chat about other subjects. [...] But, as far as I know, Heni have not confirmed that they have used "glitter seal" or anything similar on top of the glitter. They say the laminate has been screen printed with glitter but that's it. Everything else is just people's opinions.
For argument's sake, let us assume we don't know. That we haven't got a clue about whether or not the glitter has actually been sealed.
What the photographic evidence does show is that the surface has a texture prone to snagging dusting cloths.
And so, how much of a difference would it make in practice to an owner-collector if the glitter were sealed or unsealed?
Either way, the artwork, if hung as it is and unwisely left unglazed, will become a dust magnet โ and difficult if not a nightmare to clean.
1. I have no interest in The Empresses by Damien Hirst. Because I find the art frankly dull. And not especially attractive. It isn't work that engages me โ whether intellectually, emotionally, or even decoratively. 2. That said, I've entered this thread because its content is clogging up the New Posts section of the forum. 3. The glitter description is very clear to me: (i) laminate; (ii) glitter screenprinted above the laminate; and (iii) glitter sealed. 4. It seems much of the confusion relates to "sealed". Perhaps there aren't enough members who did arts and crafts at school. 5. Although "sealed" could mean more than one thing, with glitter it normally refers to the use of a sealing spray. The glitter can still be felt afterwards, its texture is still there โ but it's covered with a thin coat of adhesive or resin to make it less likely to flake away afterwards. 6. Do your research. Just Google "glitter seal" and check for yourselves. So that we can move on and chat about other subjects. [...] But, as far as I know, Heni have not confirmed that they have used "glitter seal" or anything similar on top of the glitter. They say the laminate has been screen printed with glitter but that's it. Everything else is just people's opinions. For argument's sake, let us assume we don't know. That we haven't got a clue about whether or not the glitter has actually been sealed. What the photographic evidence does show is that the surface has a texture prone to snagging dusting cloths. And so, how much of a difference would it make in practice to an owner-collector if the glitter were sealed or unsealed? Either way, the artwork, if hung as it is and unwisely left unglazed, will become a dust magnet โ and difficult if not a nightmare to clean.
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met
Junior Member
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June 2009
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Damien Hirst H10 โข The Empresses, by met on Feb 10, 2022 13:51:50 GMT 1, Uggh... regarding these new posts about the screen print glitter(diamond dust) being on top of the plexiglass surface instead of behind, as it was originally mentioned. If accurate, IMO, this printing process seems highly unstable on top of the plexiglass front. Seems possible that there could be many examples from the edition that end up with glitter flaking off. I am suddenly reminded of Vonnegut's character Rabo Karabekian who lost his fame and fortune after his paintings started falling apart. Boo. From a Heni mod on the discord discussion โThere's a laminate above the giclee butterfly print which is then printed onto using a process called screen printing (in which ink or in our case glitter is pressed through a prepared screen of fine mesh material so as to create a picture or pattern)โ The glitter is screen printed, then sealed, and isnโt going anywhere. The prints arenโt going to fall apart. Perhaps I'm being dim but I'm still not sure what that means. If the laminate has been screen-printed with glitter then surely that means the glitter is sitting on top of the laminate, i.e. the surface is going to the rough and textured. Or is the glitter on the inside surface of the laminate? As he said, the glitter is screen printed then sealed That's not what Heni said. That's what Charlie said. This is a screenshot from my DM conversation with EthanT a moderator on the Heni Discord last night regarding the glitter question.
The photo's don't lie, the glitter is clearly sat on top....it's even creeping over the edges. What more proof do you need?
1. I have no interest in The Empresses by Damien Hirst.
Because I find the art frankly dull. And not especially attractive.
It isn't work that engages me โ whether intellectually, emotionally, or even decoratively.
2. That said, I've entered this thread because its content is clogging up the New Posts section of the forum.
3. The glitter description is very clear to me:
(i) laminate; (ii) glitter screenprinted above the laminate; and (iii) glitter sealed.
4. It seems much of the confusion relates to "sealed". Perhaps there aren't enough members who did arts and crafts at school.
5. Although "sealed" could mean more than one thing, with glitter it normally refers to the use of a sealing spray.
The glitter can still be felt afterwards, its texture is still there โ but it's covered with a thin coat of adhesive or resin to make it less likely to flake away afterwards.
6. Do your research. Just Google "glitter seal" and check for yourselves. So that we can move on and chat about other subjects.
Uggh... regarding these new posts about the screen print glitter(diamond dust) being on top of the plexiglass surface instead of behind, as it was originally mentioned. If accurate, IMO, this printing process seems highly unstable on top of the plexiglass front. Seems possible that there could be many examples from the edition that end up with glitter flaking off. I am suddenly reminded of Vonnegut's character Rabo Karabekian who lost his fame and fortune after his paintings started falling apart. Boo. From a Heni mod on the discord discussion โThere's a laminate above the giclee butterfly print which is then printed onto using a process called screen printing (in which ink or in our case glitter is pressed through a prepared screen of fine mesh material so as to create a picture or pattern)โ The glitter is screen printed, then sealed, and isnโt going anywhere. The prints arenโt going to fall apart. Perhaps I'm being dim but I'm still not sure what that means. If the laminate has been screen-printed with glitter then surely that means the glitter is sitting on top of the laminate, i.e. the surface is going to the rough and textured. Or is the glitter on the inside surface of the laminate? As he said, the glitter is screen printed then sealed That's not what Heni said. That's what Charlie said. This is a screenshot from my DM conversation with EthanT a moderator on the Heni Discord last night regarding the glitter question. The photo's don't lie, the glitter is clearly sat on top....it's even creeping over the edges. What more proof do you need? 1. I have no interest in The Empresses by Damien Hirst. Because I find the art frankly dull. And not especially attractive. It isn't work that engages me โ whether intellectually, emotionally, or even decoratively. 2. That said, I've entered this thread because its content is clogging up the New Posts section of the forum. 3. The glitter description is very clear to me: (i) laminate; (ii) glitter screenprinted above the laminate; and (iii) glitter sealed. 4. It seems much of the confusion relates to "sealed". Perhaps there aren't enough members who did arts and crafts at school. 5. Although "sealed" could mean more than one thing, with glitter it normally refers to the use of a sealing spray. The glitter can still be felt afterwards, its texture is still there โ but it's covered with a thin coat of adhesive or resin to make it less likely to flake away afterwards. 6. Do your research. Just Google "glitter seal" and check for yourselves. So that we can move on and chat about other subjects.
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met
Junior Member
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June 2009
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For Sale/Giveaway Various Artists Bits and Tat., by met on Feb 8, 2022 0:41:30 GMT 1, I am moving home and I am a massive hoarder so I need to have a clear out. I have more to add but here are a few bits. Some have value and others I am happy to take postage in the knowledge they are going to a good home. Feel free to message me and I will get back to you if itโs sensible. I will reply to all the messages as soon as I can but probably tomorrow now. thanks everyone for your interest. [...] Sothebys Catalogue Monkey Parliament ยฃ10? Under offer [...]
Thank you to singerstu for a relaxed and pleasant deal last week.
Happy with my purchase, having picked up for a tenner the Sotheby's Contemporary Art mini catalogue from 3โ4 October 2019.
The signs were already very promising when I was instructed to delay payment until after the catalogue was received by me.
I am moving home and I am a massive hoarder so I need to have a clear out. I have more to add but here are a few bits. Some have value and others I am happy to take postage in the knowledge they are going to a good home. Feel free to message me and I will get back to you if itโs sensible. I will reply to all the messages as soon as I can but probably tomorrow now. thanks everyone for your interest. [...] Sothebys Catalogue Monkey Parliament ยฃ10? Under offer [...] Thank you to singerstu for a relaxed and pleasant deal last week. Happy with my purchase, having picked up for a tenner the Sotheby's Contemporary Art mini catalogue from 3โ4 October 2019. The signs were already very promising when I was instructed to delay payment until after the catalogue was received by me.
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met
Junior Member
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June 2009
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What is the significance of contemporary art?, by met on Feb 7, 2022 23:55:59 GMT 1, lol new level of marketing - providing the question and the answer
It is imbecilic behaviour.
So much so that I even asked myself whether this might be a false-flag operation โ initiated by a third party to further discredit the gallery.
But since stupidity, incompetence and dishonesty are also the hallmarks of Arts Limited, on balance I actually do suspect it was a genuine attempt to deceive. Another example of the fool with misplaced confidence in their own abilities.
What is the significance of contemporary art? Contemporary art is a type of expression that depicts the ideology, opinions, and perspectives of today's people in a visual manner. People are being inspired to look at a still life from a different perspective by the vastness of openness used in the art. Contemporary art is significant because it adds value to people's lives in a way that no other form of art can. Contemporary art delivers aesthetic value and inspiration like no other by communicating emotions, viewpoints, and cultural characteristics in a way that is unique to modern art's technique and portrayal. Discover, own and collect contemporary art from intriguing artists from around the world only on arts-limited.com. Browse online art collection for contemporary art for sale that has been expertly vetted by curators. www.arts-limited.com/product/kaws-this-is-not-a-toy-x-pharell-williams-curated-by-design-exchange-sealed/Well, gabriella, alisa and Arts Limited very effectively disqualified themselves as trustworthy. Creating two accounts to ask and answer a question to promote your own crap. Apparantly the significance of honesty has eluded them..... (Probably a single him....)
Thank you for quoting.
That is helpful for future reference. Especially since original posts will at times get deleted by their authors.
And gallery ineptitude always makes for a good case study.
She really misjudged who sheโs dealing with on this forum ๐
She? Hardly. Just more deception.
__________
Arts Limited โ You have my attention, yet again.
As far as I'm aware, you already have at least one other active account on this forum.
Please could you therefore delete the gabriella and alisa burner accounts.
lol new level of marketing - providing the question and the answer It is imbecilic behaviour. So much so that I even asked myself whether this might be a false-flag operation โ initiated by a third party to further discredit the gallery. But since stupidity, incompetence and dishonesty are also the hallmarks of Arts Limited, on balance I actually do suspect it was a genuine attempt to deceive. Another example of the fool with misplaced confidence in their own abilities. What is the significance of contemporary art? Contemporary art is a type of expression that depicts the ideology, opinions, and perspectives of today's people in a visual manner. People are being inspired to look at a still life from a different perspective by the vastness of openness used in the art. Contemporary art is significant because it adds value to people's lives in a way that no other form of art can. Contemporary art delivers aesthetic value and inspiration like no other by communicating emotions, viewpoints, and cultural characteristics in a way that is unique to modern art's technique and portrayal. Discover, own and collect contemporary art from intriguing artists from around the world only on arts-limited.com. Browse online art collection for contemporary art for sale that has been expertly vetted by curators. www.arts-limited.com/product/kaws-this-is-not-a-toy-x-pharell-williams-curated-by-design-exchange-sealed/Well, gabriella, alisa and Arts Limited very effectively disqualified themselves as trustworthy. Creating two accounts to ask and answer a question to promote your own crap. Apparantly the significance of honesty has eluded them..... (Probably a single him....) Thank you for quoting. That is helpful for future reference. Especially since original posts will at times get deleted by their authors. And gallery ineptitude always makes for a good case study. She really misjudged who sheโs dealing with on this forum ๐ She? Hardly. Just more deception. __________ Arts Limited โ You have my attention, yet again. As far as I'm aware, you already have at least one other active account on this forum. Please could you therefore delete the gabriella and alisa burner accounts.
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met
Junior Member
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June 2009
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What Music are you listening to at the moment ?, by met on Feb 7, 2022 18:16:06 GMT 1, met - you reminded me of this video (go to 1 minute in) - it makes us all grateful there were never smartphones in the early 90s ๐ True but, for me at least, that still wasn't enough time. In the 1990s, I hadn't yet finished going through all of my awkward phases. Immediately prior to becoming obsessed with flatfooting and clogging around summer 2011, I was really into the Cybergoth scene. Lots of black, zippers, clips and buckles, the occasional gas mask, cyberlox, big stompy boots, fluffy leg warmers... The whole works. My friend Kenji and I would regularly travel to Cyber gatherings (or "Cybertreffen") at various locations in his home country, Germany. These were essentially mini raves, which could take place anywhere โ in a club, outside a shopping mall, etc. I even remember one of them being under Oberkasseler Bridge in Dรผsseldorf. The randomness was part of the fun. It was also an opportunity to meet fellow enthusiasts and dance. But Kenji was constantly filming. He referred to it as documenting. I just called it annoying. Whatever happened to all of his video footage is anyone's guess. Still, a worry at the back of my mind is that it one day finds its way onto You Tube. [Feelings of embarrassment are uncomfortable for me and, with the benefit of hindsight, I've reached a conclusion that the Cybergoth look isn't as cool as I thought it was back then.]By way of side note, here is part of the soundtrack representing that period in my life: Lock 'N Load - Blow Ya Mind (Dj Zany Remix) (2005)- uploaded by Lock 'N Load โ- Topic
Oh, no...
Damn that Kenji.
My trust was betrayed. He said the video footage would be for his personal archives only.
6. Cybertreffen am 12.3.11 - uploaded by GothicIke
met - you reminded me of this video (go to 1 minute in) - it makes us all grateful there were never smartphones in the early 90s ๐ True but, for me at least, that still wasn't enough time. In the 1990s, I hadn't yet finished going through all of my awkward phases. Immediately prior to becoming obsessed with flatfooting and clogging around summer 2011, I was really into the Cybergoth scene. Lots of black, zippers, clips and buckles, the occasional gas mask, cyberlox, big stompy boots, fluffy leg warmers... The whole works. My friend Kenji and I would regularly travel to Cyber gatherings (or "Cybertreffen") at various locations in his home country, Germany. These were essentially mini raves, which could take place anywhere โ in a club, outside a shopping mall, etc. I even remember one of them being under Oberkasseler Bridge in Dรผsseldorf. The randomness was part of the fun. It was also an opportunity to meet fellow enthusiasts and dance. But Kenji was constantly filming. He referred to it as documenting. I just called it annoying. Whatever happened to all of his video footage is anyone's guess. Still, a worry at the back of my mind is that it one day finds its way onto You Tube. [Feelings of embarrassment are uncomfortable for me and, with the benefit of hindsight, I've reached a conclusion that the Cybergoth look isn't as cool as I thought it was back then.]By way of side note, here is part of the soundtrack representing that period in my life: Lock 'N Load - Blow Ya Mind (Dj Zany Remix) (2005)- uploaded by Lock 'N Load โ- TopicOh, no...Damn that Kenji. My trust was betrayed. He said the video footage would be for his personal archives only. 6. Cybertreffen am 12.3.11- uploaded by GothicIke
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,782
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June 2009
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What Music are you listening to at the moment ?, by met on Feb 6, 2022 2:27:00 GMT 1, met - you reminded me of this video (go to 1 minute in) - it makes us all grateful there were never smartphones in the early 90s ๐
True but, for me at least, that still wasn't enough time.
In the 1990s, I hadn't yet finished going through all of my awkward phases.
Immediately prior to becoming obsessed with flatfooting and clogging around summer 2011, I was really into the Cybergoth scene. Lots of black, zippers, clips and buckles, the occasional gas mask, cyberlox, big stompy boots, fluffy leg warmers... The whole works.
My friend Kenji and I would regularly travel to Cyber gatherings (or "Cybertreffen") at various locations in his home country, Germany. These were essentially mini raves, which could take place anywhere โ in a club, outside a shopping mall, etc. I even remember one of them being under Oberkasseler Bridge in Dรผsseldorf. The randomness was part of the fun. It was also an opportunity to meet fellow enthusiasts and dance.
But Kenji was constantly filming. He referred to it as documenting. I just called it annoying.
Whatever happened to all of his video footage is anyone's guess. Still, a worry at the back of my mind is that it one day finds its way onto YouTube. [Feelings of embarrassment are uncomfortable for me and, with the benefit of hindsight, I've reached a conclusion that the Cybergoth look isn't as cool as I thought it was back then.]
By way of side note, here is part of the soundtrack representing that period in my life:
Lock 'N Load - Blow Ya Mind (Dj Zany Remix) (2005) - uploaded by Lock 'N Load โ- Topic
met - you reminded me of this video (go to 1 minute in) - it makes us all grateful there were never smartphones in the early 90s ๐ True but, for me at least, that still wasn't enough time. In the 1990s, I hadn't yet finished going through all of my awkward phases. Immediately prior to becoming obsessed with flatfooting and clogging around summer 2011, I was really into the Cybergoth scene. Lots of black, zippers, clips and buckles, the occasional gas mask, cyberlox, big stompy boots, fluffy leg warmers... The whole works. My friend Kenji and I would regularly travel to Cyber gatherings (or "Cybertreffen") at various locations in his home country, Germany. These were essentially mini raves, which could take place anywhere โ in a club, outside a shopping mall, etc. I even remember one of them being under Oberkasseler Bridge in Dรผsseldorf. The randomness was part of the fun. It was also an opportunity to meet fellow enthusiasts and dance. But Kenji was constantly filming. He referred to it as documenting. I just called it annoying. Whatever happened to all of his video footage is anyone's guess. Still, a worry at the back of my mind is that it one day finds its way onto You Tube. [Feelings of embarrassment are uncomfortable for me and, with the benefit of hindsight, I've reached a conclusion that the Cybergoth look isn't as cool as I thought it was back then.]By way of side note, here is part of the soundtrack representing that period in my life: Lock 'N Load - Blow Ya Mind (Dj Zany Remix) (2005)- uploaded by Lock 'N Load โ- Topic
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,782
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June 2009
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What Music are you listening to at the moment ?, by met on Feb 5, 2022 17:59:59 GMT 1, The last series of sounds posted on this thread made me reminisce about more recent sessions mates and I used to have at the local community centre. Every single Tuesday night, 6:30 p.m. And 6:30 p.m. sharp โ no faffing about. Pretty awesome times. Especially with Trevor, still a substitute geography teacher back then. And Psycho Hazel, of course, who normally worked in Accounting but would also man the reception desk while Sarah was at lunch. Though I loved clogging just as much as the next person, the greater subtlety and understatement of flatfooting was always more my thing. Here's a tune that might evoke fond memories for others here: Tony Rohr - Eden Acid (Original Mix) (2011)- uploaded by Tony Rohr - Topic
It is simply amazing what you can find on YouTube.
Had no idea this footage of the gang even existed:
Mountain dancing at community centre (circa 2011โ2012) - uploaded by Mikko Ville Valjento
That's Trevor in the beige chinos. Mad for it, as usual. Psycho Hazel is the one wearing jeans and two-tone shoes. She always had a great eye for footwear. And the woman in the dress is Betty from HR.
Can't recall the name of the other bloke, I'm afraid. He only came out with us for about half a year โ until he met somebody, settled down, and quickly turned into a boring git.
Sadly, my own dance moves are nowhere in sight. When this was being filmed, I must have been at the bar trying to chat up Sarah. But she never liked me in that way. Perhaps due to heartache or feelings of inadequacy, it was around this period that I'd provoke some of our customers into fistfights. Got laid off shortly afterwards.
Bittersweet memories.
The last series of sounds posted on this thread made me reminisce about more recent sessions mates and I used to have at the local community centre. Every single Tuesday night, 6:30 p.m. And 6:30 p.m. sharp โ no faffing about. Pretty awesome times. Especially with Trevor, still a substitute geography teacher back then. And Psycho Hazel, of course, who normally worked in Accounting but would also man the reception desk while Sarah was at lunch. Though I loved clogging just as much as the next person, the greater subtlety and understatement of flatfooting was always more my thing. Here's a tune that might evoke fond memories for others here: Tony Rohr - Eden Acid (Original Mix) (2011)- uploaded by Tony Rohr - TopicIt is simply amazing what you can find on You Tube. Had no idea this footage of the gang even existed: Mountain dancing at community centre (circa 2011โ2012)- uploaded by Mikko Ville ValjentoThat's Trevor in the beige chinos. Mad for it, as usual. Psycho Hazel is the one wearing jeans and two-tone shoes. She always had a great eye for footwear. And the woman in the dress is Betty from HR. Can't recall the name of the other bloke, I'm afraid. He only came out with us for about half a year โ until he met somebody, settled down, and quickly turned into a boring git. Sadly, my own dance moves are nowhere in sight. When this was being filmed, I must have been at the bar trying to chat up Sarah. But she never liked me in that way. Perhaps due to heartache or feelings of inadequacy, it was around this period that I'd provoke some of our customers into fistfights. Got laid off shortly afterwards. Bittersweet memories.
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met
Junior Member
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June 2009
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Kaws Tokion poster advice, by met on Feb 5, 2022 16:59:07 GMT 1, Thereโs also me previous discussions on here, youโll just have to do a search using the keyword tokion. Best bet would be to buy a complete set and preferably a set with the original black folder that they came in. They are faked a lot so look thru a loupe is helpful in spotting fakes. Good luck
Most fakes look like the one on the left. These are very common at auctions. Easiest way to spot a fake is the close cropping of the signature without a gap to the white border. The gold is poorly reproduced and the the figure will have a purplish hue to it instead of pure black & white.
The market has been flooded with copies for years, I'd put your chances of pulling a real one around half a percent unless it's in the original set.
Hat tip to kwatis, DAVID HOCKNEY and sleazus1slord for their efforts here.
Clear, straightforward and helpful guidance โ especially the side-by-side image.
__________
These posts admirably cover the first of two key areas where the forum has greatest potential:
1. Informing other collectors so they are less likely to be defrauded or taken advantage of.
2. Encouraging other collectors (including on For Sale threads) to consider more carefully what they're looking to buy and precisely for what reasons โ so they are less likely to be influenced by marketing or hype, and more prone to thinking for themselves, as opposed to instinctively following either the herd or what they've been duped into believing is the herd.
__________
At some point during the next week or so, I propose to piggyback by offering additional details about the KAWS Tokion poster.
Some commentary is also warranted about art professionals who accept copies of the poster on consignment without carrying out the requisite due diligence โ while at the same time being fully aware of the pervasiveness of counterfeits on the market. In other words, being fully aware of the reasons why alarm bells should be ringing, and why extra caution is always required, each and every time they are presented with one of these posters.
But it is the first steps of any process that are most difficult. And in this instance, those steps were kindly taken by the above forum members.
Thereโs also me previous discussions on here, youโll just have to do a search using the keyword tokion. Best bet would be to buy a complete set and preferably a set with the original black folder that they came in. They are faked a lot so look thru a loupe is helpful in spotting fakes. Good luck Most fakes look like the one on the left. These are very common at auctions. Easiest way to spot a fake is the close cropping of the signature without a gap to the white border. The gold is poorly reproduced and the the figure will have a purplish hue to it instead of pure black & white. The market has been flooded with copies for years, I'd put your chances of pulling a real one around half a percent unless it's in the original set. Hat tip to kwatis, DAVID HOCKNEY and sleazus1slord for their efforts here. Clear, straightforward and helpful guidance โ especially the side-by-side image. __________ These posts admirably cover the first of two key areas where the forum has greatest potential: 1. Informing other collectors so they are less likely to be defrauded or taken advantage of. 2. Encouraging other collectors (including on For Sale threads) to consider more carefully what they're looking to buy and precisely for what reasons โ so they are less likely to be influenced by marketing or hype, and more prone to thinking for themselves, as opposed to instinctively following either the herd or what they've been duped into believing is the herd. __________ At some point during the next week or so, I propose to piggyback by offering additional details about the KAWS Tokion poster. Some commentary is also warranted about art professionals who accept copies of the poster on consignment without carrying out the requisite due diligence โ while at the same time being fully aware of the pervasiveness of counterfeits on the market. In other words, being fully aware of the reasons why alarm bells should be ringing, and why extra caution is always required, each and every time they are presented with one of these posters. But it is the first steps of any process that are most difficult. And in this instance, those steps were kindly taken by the above forum members.
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,782
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June 2009
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What Music are you listening to at the moment ?, by met on Feb 5, 2022 15:40:58 GMT 1, The last series of sounds posted on this thread made me reminisce about more recent sessions mates and I used to have at the local community centre. Every single Tuesday night, 6:30 p.m. And 6:30 p.m. sharp โ no faffing about.
Pretty awesome times. Especially with Trevor, still a substitute geography teacher back then. And Psycho Hazel, of course, who normally worked in Accounting but would also man the reception desk while Sarah was at lunch.
Though I loved clogging just as much as the next person, the greater subtlety and understatement of flatfooting was always more my thing.
Here's a tune that might evoke fond memories for others here:
Tony Rohr - Eden Acid (Original Mix) (2011) - uploaded by Tony Rohr - Topic
The last series of sounds posted on this thread made me reminisce about more recent sessions mates and I used to have at the local community centre. Every single Tuesday night, 6:30 p.m. And 6:30 p.m. sharp โ no faffing about.
Pretty awesome times. Especially with Trevor, still a substitute geography teacher back then. And Psycho Hazel, of course, who normally worked in Accounting but would also man the reception desk while Sarah was at lunch.
Though I loved clogging just as much as the next person, the greater subtlety and understatement of flatfooting was always more my thing.
Here's a tune that might evoke fond memories for others here:
Tony Rohr - Eden Acid (Original Mix) (2011) - uploaded by Tony Rohr - Topic
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,782
Likes โข 6,706
June 2009
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Jeweler recs for engagement ring (US), by met on Feb 1, 2022 11:27:17 GMT 1, Given the high quality taste of this board (mostly), Iโd love to hear a few jeweler recs as I start shopping for an engagement ring! Based in SoCal, but Iโm open to any location as long as they are reputable and of higher quality. Thanks!
If tasked with buying an engagement ring, especially one that would hold a diamond (as opposed to some other precious or semi-precious stone), I'd choose a path similar to the one taken by sfnyc:
1. Separately sourcing the stone.
2. Arranging for the ring itself to be custom-made by a talented jewellery designer / ring-maker, in a design that would:
(a) best complement the selected stone;
(b) best complement my partner's finger size and hand shape;
(c) appeal to my partner (based on my knowledge of her personal tastes and the preferences she had previously expressed or hinted at); and
(d) (perhaps of lesser concern) befit my partner's work, hobbies, daily routine and general lifestyle.
The advantages one could reasonably expect from this approach are a better-value and more bespoke ring.
Consider this the equivalent of purchasing artwork:
Art comes first. Frame comes second.
Now, because it's faster, more convenient, and it delegates a fair amount of the decision-making process (i.e. a proportion of the thinking and, with that, some of the responsibility), of course you can always buy a piece off-the-shelf and already framed.
However, you can also choose to put in the time, do the research, and take all of the key decisions yourself โ after listening to the suggestions, guidance and advice of the relevant professionals. With art that is important and has value to you, it would mean opting for conservation framing and a frame design that, to your eye, suited both the art and the room in which it would likely be hung.
__________
Notwithstanding the above, I wouldn't actually buy a diamond ring. But that's just down to personal preference, and irrelevant to your own situation.
In 2015, already seven years ago, Momo started a thread called engagement advice.
Quite a few forum members contributed to that thread, including myself*. It may be helpful having a quick read:
urbanartassociation.com/thread/125681/engagement-advice
Given the high quality taste of this board (mostly), Iโd love to hear a few jeweler recs as I start shopping for an engagement ring! Based in SoCal, but Iโm open to any location as long as they are reputable and of higher quality. Thanks! If tasked with buying an engagement ring, especially one that would hold a diamond (as opposed to some other precious or semi-precious stone), I'd choose a path similar to the one taken by sfnyc: 1. Separately sourcing the stone. 2. Arranging for the ring itself to be custom-made by a talented jewellery designer / ring-maker, in a design that would: (a) best complement the selected stone; (b) best complement my partner's finger size and hand shape; (c) appeal to my partner (based on my knowledge of her personal tastes and the preferences she had previously expressed or hinted at); and (d) (perhaps of lesser concern) befit my partner's work, hobbies, daily routine and general lifestyle. The advantages one could reasonably expect from this approach are a better-value and more bespoke ring. Consider this the equivalent of purchasing artwork: Art comes first. Frame comes second. Now, because it's faster, more convenient, and it delegates a fair amount of the decision-making process (i.e. a proportion of the thinking and, with that, some of the responsibility), of course you can always buy a piece off-the-shelf and already framed. However, you can also choose to put in the time, do the research, and take all of the key decisions yourself โ after listening to the suggestions, guidance and advice of the relevant professionals. With art that is important and has value to you, it would mean opting for conservation framing and a frame design that, to your eye, suited both the art and the room in which it would likely be hung. __________ Notwithstanding the above, I wouldn't actually buy a diamond ring. But that's just down to personal preference, and irrelevant to your own situation. In 2015, already seven years ago, Momo started a thread called engagement advice. Quite a few forum members contributed to that thread, including myself *. It may be helpful having a quick read: urbanartassociation.com/thread/125681/engagement-advice
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,782
Likes โข 6,706
June 2009
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Looking for works by Warhol, Obey, KAWS, Schifano, Christo.., by met on Jan 31, 2022 12:46:15 GMT 1, "I am also available for weddings, children's birthday parties, and b'nai mitzvah." What service would you perform there?
Our services in these domestic or civilian areas are niche.
While demand hasn't yet reached the levels predicted for Q1 2022, growth potential remains significant. New clients at present come from word-of-mouth referrals. However, a website with video content should also be up and running by Q3.
The most exciting news for me is that, for the last six months, I've been training three assistants. They will soon be in a position to help expand the business. All are natural talents showing great promise. Indeed, but for her lack of field experience, one of them is already strong enough to train new recruits herself.
Two examples of what this side the business can offer
1. Weddings
During wedding ceremonies, we are highly competent at providing live running commentary (meticulous yet dispassionate) on the bride's appearance, including detailed critiques of her wedding dress, hair and makeup โ also discussing at length the far better options she could have gone for instead.
2. Children's Birthday Parties
At birthday parties, our most popular service is helping to increase the mental resilience of a singled-out, target attendee. The idea is to better prepare them for the traumas that await in later life.
It is a focused, intensive bombardment of (objectively fair) criticism, combined with random verbal abuse. This continues until the target reaches psychological breaking point. We then pause for a brief recovery period or "recess", before commencing the process all over again. Our motto is, "It takes as long as it takes".
[In the past, I would also instigate pile-on sessions, by encouraging the other youngsters to join in. Sadly, these denunciation rallies had to stop. They tended to very suddenly get completely out of control. I'd find myself no longer able to contain the situation, at least not without CS gas. And of course that is less than ideal because it makes the cake taste funny.
Interestingly enough and contrary to what I would previously have assumed, my birthday-party clients (i.e. the people who actually pay me) are almost never the relevant target's parents. It's usually some family friend whose interest is never made entirely clear, and who'll always insist upon absolute discretion.
I am, for example, rarely allowed to discuss the service I'm offering with the actual target. Or with their parents when, after the party, they arrive to collect their child who may happen to be in a flood of tears.
Moreover, client confidentiality can at times place me in an awkward spot where, if challenged, the only facts I can contractually and ethically disclose are alternative ones. Usually, I just say I'm with the catering staff.
On a couple of occasions, I've been confronted by volatile parents who (rather than remaining composed and rational) escalated matters unnecessarily. In those cases, I was regrettably forced to rely on my Krav Maga expertise โ extracting myself after applying the swift-eye-poke technique.]
__________
If any of these services may be of interest to you, do get in touch. We are based in the UK, but frequently work with overseas clients willing to cover Business Class travel, suitable hotel accommodation, and a reasonable per diem for meals and incidental expenses.
Thank you, Met for consistently doing your best to keep it real on here. Many of us appreciate your time invested over the years.
Although I often derive greater satisfaction from keeping it unreal, thank you for your kind words.
"I am also available for weddings, children's birthday parties, and b'nai mitzvah." What service would you perform there? Our services in these domestic or civilian areas are niche. While demand hasn't yet reached the levels predicted for Q1 2022, growth potential remains significant. New clients at present come from word-of-mouth referrals. However, a website with video content should also be up and running by Q3. The most exciting news for me is that, for the last six months, I've been training three assistants. They will soon be in a position to help expand the business. All are natural talents showing great promise. Indeed, but for her lack of field experience, one of them is already strong enough to train new recruits herself. Two examples of what this side the business can offer1. WeddingsDuring wedding ceremonies, we are highly competent at providing live running commentary (meticulous yet dispassionate) on the bride's appearance, including detailed critiques of her wedding dress, hair and makeup โ also discussing at length the far better options she could have gone for instead. 2. Children's Birthday PartiesAt birthday parties, our most popular service is helping to increase the mental resilience of a singled-out, target attendee. The idea is to better prepare them for the traumas that await in later life. It is a focused, intensive bombardment of (objectively fair) criticism, combined with random verbal abuse. This continues until the target reaches psychological breaking point. We then pause for a brief recovery period or "recess", before commencing the process all over again. Our motto is, "It takes as long as it takes". [In the past, I would also instigate pile-on sessions, by encouraging the other youngsters to join in. Sadly, these denunciation rallies had to stop. They tended to very suddenly get completely out of control. I'd find myself no longer able to contain the situation, at least not without CS gas. And of course that is less than ideal because it makes the cake taste funny.
Interestingly enough and contrary to what I would previously have assumed, my birthday-party clients (i.e. the people who actually pay me) are almost never the relevant target's parents. It's usually some family friend whose interest is never made entirely clear, and who'll always insist upon absolute discretion.
I am, for example, rarely allowed to discuss the service I'm offering with the actual target. Or with their parents when, after the party, they arrive to collect their child who may happen to be in a flood of tears.
Moreover, client confidentiality can at times place me in an awkward spot where, if challenged, the only facts I can contractually and ethically disclose are alternative ones. Usually, I just say I'm with the catering staff.
On a couple of occasions, I've been confronted by volatile parents who (rather than remaining composed and rational) escalated matters unnecessarily. In those cases, I was regrettably forced to rely on my Krav Maga expertise โ extracting myself after applying the swift-eye-poke technique.]__________ If any of these services may be of interest to you, do get in touch. We are based in the UK, but frequently work with overseas clients willing to cover Business Class travel, suitable hotel accommodation, and a reasonable per diem for meals and incidental expenses. Thank you, Met for consistently doing your best to keep it real on here. Many of us appreciate your time invested over the years. Although I often derive greater satisfaction from keeping it unreal, thank you for your kind words.
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,782
Likes โข 6,706
June 2009
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Looking for works by Warhol, Obey, KAWS, Schifano, Christo.., by met on Jan 30, 2022 20:45:58 GMT 1, EDIT: Apologies. I pressed 'Create Post' in error, before even starting to draft. __________ These 'In Search Of' threads, and the repeated "Still searching..." posts (followed by their deletion, and then reposting at later dates), may well help you to secure the occasional seller or consignor. But have you thought about their likely impact on public perception โ in particular, from the standpoint of any serious art collector? If I may be candid, this type of practice makes your operation look terribly amateurish and desperate. Like some bedroom gallery, run by somebody who may be enthusiastic but lacks good business judgement. We have been following the forum for a long time and it's frequented by many people and experienced collectors. Furthermore, the forum seems well set up from a commercial point of view, with many posts related to the sale and purchase of works of art. Simply, as we are looking for some artists, it seems like a good place to meet collectors. It is not always possible to buy directly from the artists, many galleries buy or collaborate with private individuals ... we do it in a transparent way and offering our professionalism. We understand that not everyone can agree, that's the way it is for all businesses and we know it.
Thank you for the reply. And for its calm tone.
Your explanation was of interest and therefore welcome, since the views I often pay most attention to are those at odds with my own.
[Courtesy acknowledgement as well to the earlier post by avec art, one of the members whose comments I look out for and actually read โ when, for want of time, I'm limited to quickly scanning the New Threads or New Posts.]
__________
The points you make are understood.
Where our positions seem to differ is that I don't believe those points are compelling enough, from your own perspective, to justify your approach.
In essence, any short-term benefits possibly received from your 'In Search Of' posts (such as finding a seller or consignor every so often) are in my opinion outweighed by the longer-term harm this approach may be doing to the reputation of your business.
The only way it could make commercial sense to me, and where it might possibly be sustainable, is if you view this forum and its members almost solely as potential sources to acquire stock from โ i.e. ring-fenced and separated from others (outside of the Urban Art Association) who would make up the bulk of your base of buyer-clients.
__________
Breaking this down for clarity:
1. We have been following the forum for a long time and it's frequented by many people and experienced collectors.
We're in full agreement. A caveat I would add is that the "many people and experienced collectors" becomes a double-edged sword if any of your business practices risk being perceived as misguided or otherwise questionable.
2. Furthermore, the forum seems well set up from a commercial point of view, with many posts related to the sale and purchase of works of art.
Absolutely, and here too, we're in full agreement. [In fact, I'd say the forum is excessively focused on the sale and purchase of works of art, but that's beside the point.]
The key division I would make relates to prospective dealings:
(a) between private individuals; and
(b) where at least one of the parties is a professional.
With this distinction comes different collector expectations as to the appropriateness of different kinds of conduct.
Certain behaviour, for example, might get a pass (or even be considered the norm) when it's coming from a private seller or buyer. Whereas that very same behaviour, if it came from a dealer, gallery or auction house, might be deemed improper, or surprisingly clueless.
3. Simply, as we are looking for some artists, it seems like a good place to meet collectors.
Looking for work by particular artists is a position you share with pretty much all dealers, galleries and auction houses. And, like yourself, I believe that (with a bit of discernment and discrimination) the forum can be a good place to meet collectors.
Now, how a business (as opposed to a regular forum member) would best be advised to go about this is a separate matter.
4. It is not always possible to buy directly from the artists, many galleries buy or collaborate with private individuals ... we do it in a transparent way and offering our professionalism.
The difficulty, especially for relatively new galleries, to secure representation from established artists or their estates, is an obvious point. And of course no one would contest that many galleries buy from and collaborate with private individuals.
For me, the glaring issue is how this is being done by The Strip Gallery. And what signals such an approach sends to collectors. Professionalism is the opposite of what I myself am picking up from these signals.
A few specific points
(i) Identities of the artists on your list
Andy Warhol Obey Mimmo Rotella Mario Schifano
Emilio Tadini Steve Mccurry Donald Baechler Franco Angeli
Robert Combas Christo Barry MCGEE Alighiero Boetti
Agostino Bonalumi Luigi Ontani Tom WESSELMANN Emilio TADINI
With the exception of one or two artists, the above list indicates you're somewhat oblivious of or indifferent to the collector focus here.
It also suggests poor understanding of the market for many of those artists, as well as a failure to appreciate the mindset and priorities of higher-end collectors โ especially bearing in mind your existing roster of artists (cf. point (ii) below).
Query, for example, the proportion of Bonalumi collectors on this forum. But even if we assumed there were a small handful of them lurking, what is the likelihood they would agree to consign works to your gallery โ as opposed to just dealing with Christie's or Sotheby's, or selling via a more established, credible and specialised gallery?
As a preemptive comment, it's worth adding I've factored in the "No harm in asking" argument.
However, I think there often can be harm in asking โ if others interpret this as a lack of sophistication, ignorance or poor judgement. It is the kind of impression that businesses in the art world should avoid giving. Might as well try your luck by reaching out to forum members who may be thinking of selling Edward Hopper or Lucian Freud, because, "Well, you never know. It only takes one collector to make a difference!"
(ii) Artists on your list vis-ร -vis your gallery's existing roster
www.thestripgallery.com/artists/
With your current stable, we go from the neanderthal homophobe, Cope2, moving along to what I'd consider bad-joke artists like Auguste, Christophe Catelain and Jisbar. Then somewhat bizarrely on to Slim Aarons, followed next by Mimmo Rotella. Quite the rollercoaster.
And now aspiring to the likes of Christo, Barry McGee and Boetti as well?
That is certainly a hodgepodge of artists. What the discordance indicates to me is a confused curatorial vision at the gallery, if not a crisis of identity.
(iii) Length of your list
16 names. It's as long as a grocery shopping list.
Does that say "bespoke", "refined" and "professional" to anybody (including to a hypothetical artist being courted for representation by The Strip Gallery)?
Or does it just scream "scattergun" and "cloddish"?
(iv) The platform on which your list has been published
Admittedly, calls for consignments are a regular occurrence by galleries and auction houses.
But they're more typically done via email distribution lists. And therefore targeted at existing clients and contacts.
That is very different to posting a shopping list on the Urban Art Association โ a public message board, visible to anyone and everyone. The takeaway impression one gets is also very different. It feels less like a tailored invitation, and more like spam.
Not a great look for a gallery, in my opinion. And not one that exudes an air of professionalism.
(v) Repeated bumping of the 'In Search Of' post
A commonly-used ploy, especially by private sellers on the forum, is the frequent bumping of their unsuccessful threads.
Quite often, this is followed by the relevant member deleting previous "bump" posts โ so that the overall thread looks less like one long series of seemingly evermore-desperate "bumps".
This tactic is of course understandable. But it is irritating to everybody else, especially when used excessively.
And when such conduct is coming from a gallery or other professional, I would describe it as unbefitting.
5. We understand that not everyone can agree, that's the way it is for all businesses and we know it.
"Can't please everybody" is fair enough as a general life philosophy.
In the day-to-day running of your gallery, you're bound to take decisions or choose to do things that some of your existing and prospective customers will find annoying. I agree this is an inevitability.
Fortunately, most of these upsets and hiccups will be trivial. And ultimately inconsequential, in that they won't have a material effect on your business.
But there is always a hierarchy, isn't there? One that reflects the many different degrees of importance or significance. Naturally, the more serious the issue (i.e. the greater the risk of a possible negative impact), the sooner and more carefully it should be considered.
The layperson's advice I would have for any gallerist is that potential reputational harm to their gallery is a matter really worth paying attention to and prioritising accordingly.
__________
The Strip Gallery โ Hope the above offers food for thought, and is taken in the spirit of openness it was intended.
In addition, I wanted to expressly acknowledge your earlier reference to transparency, which I fully accept and applaud.
____________________
Finally, if any other business is interested in receiving straightforward feedback and common-sense guidance, my consultant fee is ยฃ500 per hour plus VAT. That increases to ยฃ850 per hour plus VAT if your annual turnover exceeds ยฃ2 million (or currency equivalent).
I am also available for weddings, children's birthday parties, and b'nai mitzvah.
EDIT: Apologies. I pressed 'Create Post' in error, before even starting to draft. __________ These 'In Search Of' threads, and the repeated "Still searching..." posts (followed by their deletion, and then reposting at later dates), may well help you to secure the occasional seller or consignor. But have you thought about their likely impact on public perception โ in particular, from the standpoint of any serious art collector? If I may be candid, this type of practice makes your operation look terribly amateurish and desperate. Like some bedroom gallery, run by somebody who may be enthusiastic but lacks good business judgement. We have been following the forum for a long time and it's frequented by many people and experienced collectors. Furthermore, the forum seems well set up from a commercial point of view, with many posts related to the sale and purchase of works of art. Simply, as we are looking for some artists, it seems like a good place to meet collectors. It is not always possible to buy directly from the artists, many galleries buy or collaborate with private individuals ... we do it in a transparent way and offering our professionalism. We understand that not everyone can agree, that's the way it is for all businesses and we know it. Thank you for the reply. And for its calm tone. Your explanation was of interest and therefore welcome, since the views I often pay most attention to are those at odds with my own. [Courtesy acknowledgement as well to the earlier post by avec art, one of the members whose comments I look out for and actually read โ when, for want of time, I'm limited to quickly scanning the New Threads or New Posts.]__________ The points you make are understood. Where our positions seem to differ is that I don't believe those points are compelling enough, from your own perspective, to justify your approach. In essence, any short-term benefits possibly received from your 'In Search Of' posts (such as finding a seller or consignor every so often) are in my opinion outweighed by the longer-term harm this approach may be doing to the reputation of your business. The only way it could make commercial sense to me, and where it might possibly be sustainable, is if you view this forum and its members almost solely as potential sources to acquire stock from โ i.e. ring-fenced and separated from others (outside of the Ur ban Art Association) who would make up the bulk of your base of buyer-clients. __________ Breaking this down for clarity: 1. We have been following the forum for a long time and it's frequented by many people and experienced collectors. We're in full agreement. A caveat I would add is that the "many people and experienced collectors" becomes a double-edged sword if any of your business practices risk being perceived as misguided or otherwise questionable. 2. Furthermore, the forum seems well set up from a commercial point of view, with many posts related to the sale and purchase of works of art.Absolutely, and here too, we're in full agreement. [In fact, I'd say the forum is excessively focused on the sale and purchase of works of art, but that's beside the point.]The key division I would make relates to prospective dealings: (a) between private individuals; and (b) where at least one of the parties is a professional. With this distinction comes different collector expectations as to the appropriateness of different kinds of conduct. Certain behaviour, for example, might get a pass (or even be considered the norm) when it's coming from a private seller or buyer. Whereas that very same behaviour, if it came from a dealer, gallery or auction house, might be deemed improper, or surprisingly clueless. 3. Simply, as we are looking for some artists, it seems like a good place to meet collectors. Looking for work by particular artists is a position you share with pretty much all dealers, galleries and auction houses. And, like yourself, I believe that (with a bit of discernment and discrimination) the forum can be a good place to meet collectors. Now, how a business (as opposed to a regular forum member) would best be advised to go about this is a separate matter. 4. It is not always possible to buy directly from the artists, many galleries buy or collaborate with private individuals ... we do it in a transparent way and offering our professionalism.The difficulty, especially for relatively new galleries, to secure representation from established artists or their estates, is an obvious point. And of course no one would contest that many galleries buy from and collaborate with private individuals. For me, the glaring issue is how this is being done by The Strip Gallery. And what signals such an approach sends to collectors. Professionalism is the opposite of what I myself am picking up from these signals. A few specific points(i) Identities of the artists on your listAndy Warhol Obey Mimmo Rotella Mario Schifano
Emilio Tadini Steve Mccurry Donald Baechler Franco Angeli
Robert Combas Christo Barry MCGEE Alighiero Boetti
Agostino Bonalumi Luigi Ontani Tom WESSELMANN Emilio TADINIWith the exception of one or two artists, the above list indicates you're somewhat oblivious of or indifferent to the collector focus here. It also suggests poor understanding of the market for many of those artists, as well as a failure to appreciate the mindset and priorities of higher-end collectors โ especially bearing in mind your existing roster of artists (cf. point (ii) below). Query, for example, the proportion of Bonalumi collectors on this forum. But even if we assumed there were a small handful of them lurking, what is the likelihood they would agree to consign works to your gallery โ as opposed to just dealing with Christie's or Sotheby's, or selling via a more established, credible and specialised gallery? As a preemptive comment, it's worth adding I've factored in the "No harm in asking" argument. However, I think there often can be harm in asking โ if others interpret this as a lack of sophistication, ignorance or poor judgement. It is the kind of impression that businesses in the art world should avoid giving. Might as well try your luck by reaching out to forum members who may be thinking of selling Edward Hopper or Lucian Freud, because, "Well, you never know. It only takes one collector to make a difference!"(ii) Artists on your list vis-ร -vis your gallery's existing rosterwww.thestripgallery.com/artists/With your current stable, we go from the neanderthal homophobe, Cope2, moving along to what I'd consider bad-joke artists like Auguste, Christophe Catelain and Jisbar. Then somewhat bizarrely on to Slim Aarons, followed next by Mimmo Rotella. Quite the rollercoaster. And now aspiring to the likes of Christo, Barry McGee and Boetti as well? That is certainly a hodgepodge of artists. What the discordance indicates to me is a confused curatorial vision at the gallery, if not a crisis of identity. (iii) Length of your list16 names. It's as long as a grocery shopping list. Does that say "bespoke", "refined" and "professional" to anybody (including to a hypothetical artist being courted for representation by The Strip Gallery)? Or does it just scream "scattergun" and "cloddish"? (iv) The platform on which your list has been publishedAdmittedly, calls for consignments are a regular occurrence by galleries and auction houses. But they're more typically done via email distribution lists. And therefore targeted at existing clients and contacts. That is very different to posting a shopping list on the Ur ban Art Association โ a public message board, visible to anyone and everyone. The takeaway impression one gets is also very different. It feels less like a tailored invitation, and more like spam. Not a great look for a gallery, in my opinion. And not one that exudes an air of professionalism. (v) Repeated bumping of the 'In Search Of' postA commonly-used ploy, especially by private sellers on the forum, is the frequent bumping of their unsuccessful threads. Quite often, this is followed by the relevant member deleting previous "bump" posts โ so that the overall thread looks less like one long series of seemingly evermore-desperate "bumps". This tactic is of course understandable. But it is irritating to everybody else, especially when used excessively. And when such conduct is coming from a gallery or other professional, I would describe it as unbefitting. 5. We understand that not everyone can agree, that's the way it is for all businesses and we know it."Can't please everybody" is fair enough as a general life philosophy. In the day-to-day running of your gallery, you're bound to take decisions or choose to do things that some of your existing and prospective customers will find annoying. I agree this is an inevitability. Fortunately, most of these upsets and hiccups will be trivial. And ultimately inconsequential, in that they won't have a material effect on your business. But there is always a hierarchy, isn't there? One that reflects the many different degrees of importance or significance. Naturally, the more serious the issue (i.e. the greater the risk of a possible negative impact), the sooner and more carefully it should be considered. The layperson's advice I would have for any gallerist is that potential reputational harm to their gallery is a matter really worth paying attention to and prioritising accordingly. __________ The Strip Gallery โ Hope the above offers food for thought, and is taken in the spirit of openness it was intended. In addition, I wanted to expressly acknowledge your earlier reference to transparency, which I fully accept and applaud. ____________________ Finally, if any other business is interested in receiving straightforward feedback and common-sense guidance, my consultant fee is ยฃ500 per hour plus VAT. That increases to ยฃ850 per hour plus VAT if your annual turnover exceeds ยฃ2 million (or currency equivalent). I am also available for weddings, children's birthday parties, and b'nai mitzvah.
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,782
Likes โข 6,706
June 2009
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Banksy dismaland $1 note, by met on Jan 29, 2022 12:00:48 GMT 1, Cheers for posting that Facebook group link. 1. Xavier Choin* is probably just a naive dupe, now sadly in possession of multiple fakes. 2. But I am not so sure about the Michael Heath* chap. Regarding his fake Golf Sale on cardboard "from Dismiland", he is the one confirming "It has been authenticated by Steve Lazarides". And that "it's valued at ยฃ15K to ยฃ20K by Maddox Gallery in London."Now, the likelihood of these two things actually having happened is pretty much zero. And so either Michael Heath is easily fooled, was ripped off, and is now perpetuating the lies he was told by his seller. Or (perhaps more plausibly) he himself is the fraudster creating a false narrative โ in order to later offload a piece he knows isn't genuine onto some novice Ban ksy collector. I think he's naive. we moved to PM and he just parroted the same line; 'bought from a dealer associated with Maddox' i was thinking it was Xavier trying to sell the fakes, which Michael said was the case. Xavi had PMd Michael with some pieces for sale. Either way, there are a lot of people who don't research and get mugged off
If Michael Heath is of good faith, then yes he's certainly naive.
It would also be a case of wishful thinking and confirmation bias clouding his judgement.
We often believe what we want to believe, and instinctively dismiss or rationalise any evidence that contradicts those beliefs. That is the very opposite of what Julia Galef refers to as the "scout mindset". Each one of us, to a greater or lesser extent, is vulnerable to this kind of thinking. Even scientists and researchers sometimes fall prey, despite generally being acutely aware of the risk.
An additional problem is that "Hoodwinked people embrace their misperceptions."*
The adage is as old as it is familiar:
Itโs easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.
__________
On the plus side, Heath appears open to engaging in discussion.
For the time being, he may refuse to believe he was conned, at least when this truth is coming from yourself.
But if the very same truth were communicated to him by Steve Lazarides, Maddox Gallery in London, and/or Pest Control Office, then presumably this could be more successful in shaking his conviction regarding the authenticity of his Golf Sale on cardboard.
And so, the only thing that should be required here is for Heath to carry out the most basic of verification exercises โ by reaching out to the above (any one or two of them, or all three) and asking a simple question.
If he truly believes his piece to be genuine, then there are no disadvantages, only benefits, in him getting a direct response from those whose supposed authentications or valuations he is currently relying upon.
__________
Let's make it easy for Heath.
He can just use one of the templates below.
Adding photos of the front and back of the artwork would be helpful and courteous, but arguably not even necessary.
1. Steve Lazarides
1.1 Email info@lazemporium.com
FAO Steve Lazarides
Dear Steve,
I am writing to you about a spraypainted artwork on cardboard featuring Banksy's Golf Sale image and Banksy's tag at the bottom-right corner. On the reverse side of the cardboard is the text "ENJOY YOUR FREE ART" and "BANKSY IS DISMAL!! WSM", a Dismaland stamp, and the edition number 15/15. Please see the attached photos for information.
The artwork was purchased by me in [Insert year] from a dealer based in [Insert dealer's geographical location], named [Insert dealer's full name]. He confirmed you had authenticated the piece as a genuine Banksy.
I would be very grateful if you could let me know whether this information is indeed correct.
Thank you for your time.
Best regards,
Michael Heath [Heath to insert his contact details, as appropriate]
1.2 Alternatively, reach out via Instagram โ @stevelazarides
2. Maddox Gallery
Email info@maddoxgallery.co.uk
Dear Sirs,
I am writing to you about a spraypainted artwork on cardboard featuring Banksy's Golf Sale image and Banksy's tag at the bottom-right corner. On the reverse side of the cardboard is the text "ENJOY YOUR FREE ART" and "BANKSY IS DISMAL!! WSM", a Dismaland stamp, and the edition number 15/15. Please see the attached photos for information.
The artwork was purchased by me in [Insert year] from a dealer based in [Insert dealer's geographical location], named [Insert dealer's full name]. He confirmed he has connections with yourselves, and that Maddox Gallery London had valued the piece at ยฃ15,000โยฃ20,000.
I would be very grateful if you could let me know whether this information is indeed correct.
Thank you for your time.
Best regards,
Michael Heath [Heath to insert his contact details, as appropriate]
3. Pest Control Office
3.1 Email info@pestcontroloffice.com
Dear Pest Control Office,
I am writing to you about a spraypainted artwork on cardboard featuring Banksy's Golf Sale image and Banksy's tag at the bottom-right corner. On the reverse side of the cardboard is the text "ENJOY YOUR FREE ART" and "BANKSY IS DISMAL!! WSM", a Dismaland stamp, and the edition number 15/15. Please see the attached photos for information.
The artwork was purchased by me in [Insert year] from a dealer based in [Insert dealer's geographical location], named [Insert dealer's full name]. He sold it to me as an authentic piece by Banksy.
I would be very grateful if you could let me know whether this artwork on cardboard was indeed created by Banksy.
Thank you for your time.
Best regards,
Michael Heath [Heath to insert his contact details, as appropriate]
3.2 Alternatively, fill in the form in the link below:
pestcontroloffice.com/buy1.asp
Cheers for posting that Facebook group link. 1. Xavier Choin* is probably just a naive dupe, now sadly in possession of multiple fakes. 2. But I am not so sure about the Michael Heath* chap. Regarding his fake Golf Sale on cardboard "from Dismiland", he is the one confirming "It has been authenticated by Steve Lazarides". And that "it's valued at ยฃ15K to ยฃ20K by Maddox Gallery in London."Now, the likelihood of these two things actually having happened is pretty much zero. And so either Michael Heath is easily fooled, was ripped off, and is now perpetuating the lies he was told by his seller. Or (perhaps more plausibly) he himself is the fraudster creating a false narrative โ in order to later offload a piece he knows isn't genuine onto some novice Ban ksy collector. I think he's naive. we moved to PM and he just parroted the same line; 'bought from a dealer associated with Maddox' i was thinking it was Xavier trying to sell the fakes, which Michael said was the case. Xavi had PMd Michael with some pieces for sale. Either way, there are a lot of people who don't research and get mugged off If Michael Heath is of good faith, then yes he's certainly naive. It would also be a case of wishful thinking and confirmation bias clouding his judgement. We often believe what we want to believe, and instinctively dismiss or rationalise any evidence that contradicts those beliefs. That is the very opposite of what Julia Galef refers to as the "scout mindset". Each one of us, to a greater or lesser extent, is vulnerable to this kind of thinking. Even scientists and researchers sometimes fall prey, despite generally being acutely aware of the risk. An additional problem is that "Hoodwinked people embrace their misperceptions."*The adage is as old as it is familiar: Itโs easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.__________ On the plus side, Heath appears open to engaging in discussion. For the time being, he may refuse to believe he was conned, at least when this truth is coming from yourself. But if the very same truth were communicated to him by Steve Lazarides, Maddox Gallery in London, and/or Pest Control Office, then presumably this could be more successful in shaking his conviction regarding the authenticity of his Golf Sale on cardboard. And so, the only thing that should be required here is for Heath to carry out the most basic of verification exercises โ by reaching out to the above (any one or two of them, or all three) and asking a simple question. If he truly believes his piece to be genuine, then there are no disadvantages, only benefits, in him getting a direct response from those whose supposed authentications or valuations he is currently relying upon. __________ Let's make it easy for Heath. He can just use one of the templates below. Adding photos of the front and back of the artwork would be helpful and courteous, but arguably not even necessary. 1. Steve Lazarides1.1 Email info@lazemporium.comFAO Steve Lazarides
Dear Steve,
I am writing to you about a spraypainted artwork on cardboard featuring Banksy's Golf Sale image and Banksy's tag at the bottom-right corner. On the reverse side of the cardboard is the text "ENJOY YOUR FREE ART" and "BANKSY IS DISMAL!! WSM", a Dismaland stamp, and the edition number 15/15. Please see the attached photos for information.
The artwork was purchased by me in [Insert year] from a dealer based in [Insert dealer's geographical location], named [Insert dealer's full name]. He confirmed you had authenticated the piece as a genuine Banksy.
I would be very grateful if you could let me know whether this information is indeed correct.
Thank you for your time.
Best regards,
Michael Heath [Heath to insert his contact details, as appropriate]1.2 Alternatively, reach out via Instagram โ @stevelazarides2. Maddox GalleryEmail info@maddoxgallery.co.ukDear Sirs,
I am writing to you about a spraypainted artwork on cardboard featuring Banksy's Golf Sale image and Banksy's tag at the bottom-right corner. On the reverse side of the cardboard is the text "ENJOY YOUR FREE ART" and "BANKSY IS DISMAL!! WSM", a Dismaland stamp, and the edition number 15/15. Please see the attached photos for information.
The artwork was purchased by me in [Insert year] from a dealer based in [Insert dealer's geographical location], named [Insert dealer's full name]. He confirmed he has connections with yourselves, and that Maddox Gallery London had valued the piece at ยฃ15,000โยฃ20,000.
I would be very grateful if you could let me know whether this information is indeed correct.
Thank you for your time.
Best regards,
Michael Heath [Heath to insert his contact details, as appropriate]3. Pest Control Office3.1 Email info@pestcontroloffice.comDear Pest Control Office,
I am writing to you about a spraypainted artwork on cardboard featuring Banksy's Golf Sale image and Banksy's tag at the bottom-right corner. On the reverse side of the cardboard is the text "ENJOY YOUR FREE ART" and "BANKSY IS DISMAL!! WSM", a Dismaland stamp, and the edition number 15/15. Please see the attached photos for information.
The artwork was purchased by me in [Insert year] from a dealer based in [Insert dealer's geographical location], named [Insert dealer's full name]. He sold it to me as an authentic piece by Banksy.
I would be very grateful if you could let me know whether this artwork on cardboard was indeed created by Banksy.
Thank you for your time.
Best regards,
Michael Heath [Heath to insert his contact details, as appropriate]3.2 Alternatively, fill in the form in the link below: pestcontroloffice.com/buy1.asp
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,782
Likes โข 6,706
June 2009
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Banksy dismaland $1 note, by met on Jan 28, 2022 22:11:03 GMT 1, [...] Your images would serve as useful supporting evidence for a post in a new forum thread I'm thinking about starting, for the benefit of less experienced collectors. This thread could be a centralised home to various Case Studies on scamming and other forms of dishonesty by specific individuals, businesses and entities โ especially within (but not exclusive to) the Ban ksy market. This would be a very good thing to do. I'm sure we've all spent times on here, or on social media / ebay, helping out those new to collecting. Some, of course, don't want to be helped! I and others spent time last night on one of the FB groups trying to point out that an 'original work from Dismiland' was fake - but because 'Laz had authenticated it' and Maddox valued it at a ยฃ5-figure sum (good gallery...!!) the owner wouldn't accept the possibility of it being fake.If there was some kind of resource here such as you describe, that may help sway that kind of opinion. Or not, but at least we're trying... Jeeez! What was this fake original work someone got duped into buying? Would love to see how awful it is, any pictures? You may have to join the FB group, not sure if it's public m.facebook.com/groups/2361383231/permalink/10159739811228232/
Cheers for posting that Facebook group link.
1. Xavier Choin* is probably just a naive dupe, now sadly in possession of multiple fakes.
2. But I am not so sure about the Michael Heath* chap.
Regarding his fake Golf Sale on cardboard "from Dismiland", he is the one confirming "It has been authenticated by Steve Lazarides". And that "it's valued at ยฃ15K to ยฃ20K by Maddox Gallery in London."
Now, the likelihood of these two things actually having happened is pretty much zero.
And so either Michael Heath is easily fooled, was ripped off, and is now perpetuating the lies he was told by his seller. Or (perhaps more plausibly) he himself is the fraudster creating a false narrative โ in order to later offload a piece he knows isn't genuine onto some novice Banksy collector.
[...] Your images would serve as useful supporting evidence for a post in a new forum thread I'm thinking about starting, for the benefit of less experienced collectors. This thread could be a centralised home to various Case Studies on scamming and other forms of dishonesty by specific individuals, businesses and entities โ especially within (but not exclusive to) the Ban ksy market. This would be a very good thing to do. I'm sure we've all spent times on here, or on social media / ebay, helping out those new to collecting. Some, of course, don't want to be helped! I and others spent time last night on one of the FB groups trying to point out that an 'original work from Dismiland' was fake - but because 'Laz had authenticated it' and Maddox valued it at a ยฃ5-figure sum (good gallery...!!) the owner wouldn't accept the possibility of it being fake.If there was some kind of resource here such as you describe, that may help sway that kind of opinion. Or not, but at least we're trying... Jeeez! What was this fake original work someone got duped into buying? Would love to see how awful it is, any pictures? You may have to join the FB group, not sure if it's public m.facebook.com/groups/2361383231/permalink/10159739811228232/Cheers for posting that Facebook group link. 1. Xavier Choin* is probably just a naive dupe, now sadly in possession of multiple fakes. 2. But I am not so sure about the Michael Heath* chap. Regarding his fake Golf Sale on cardboard "from Dismiland", he is the one confirming "It has been authenticated by Steve Lazarides". And that "it's valued at ยฃ15K to ยฃ20K by Maddox Gallery in London."Now, the likelihood of these two things actually having happened is pretty much zero. And so either Michael Heath is easily fooled, was ripped off, and is now perpetuating the lies he was told by his seller. Or (perhaps more plausibly) he himself is the fraudster creating a false narrative โ in order to later offload a piece he knows isn't genuine onto some novice Ban ksy collector.
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,782
Likes โข 6,706
June 2009
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Banksy dismaland $1 note, by met on Jan 28, 2022 21:59:48 GMT 1, Please see pictures below and feedback would be great.
Thank you very much for posting these images.
1. As others have already stated, the $1 note was not created by Banksy.
2. With respect to the Certificate of Authenticity, unfortunately your photo isn't clear enough for me to read much of the text.
But regardless, the only value that COA would have is its potential to fool less-experienced Banksy collectors into handing their money over to Arts Limited.
Please see pictures below and feedback would be great. Thank you very much for posting these images. 1. As others have already stated, the $1 note was not created by Ban ksy. 2. With respect to the Certificate of Authenticity, unfortunately your photo isn't clear enough for me to read much of the text. But regardless, the only value that COA would have is its potential to fool less-experienced Ban ksy collectors into handing their money over to Arts Limited.
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,782
Likes โข 6,706
June 2009
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Banksy dismaland $1 note, by met on Jan 28, 2022 11:14:50 GMT 1, Real or fake Coa by โarts limitedโ
Real or fake Coa by โarts limitedโ do u have a picture?
galleriezz
The note you're referring to would be fake.
Separately, to follow up on vvk's query, it would be helpful and much appreciated if you could post clear images of both:
(i) the $1 note itself; and
(ii) the certificate of authenticity from Arts Limited.
Your images would serve as useful supporting evidence for a post in a new forum thread I'm thinking about starting, for the benefit of less experienced collectors.
This thread could be a centralised home to various Case Studies on scamming and other forms of dishonesty by specific individuals, businesses and entities โ especially within (but not exclusive to) the Banksy market.
Real or fake Coa by โarts limitedโ Real or fake Coa by โarts limitedโ do u have a picture? galleriezzThe note you're referring to would be fake. Separately, to follow up on vvk's query, it would be helpful and much appreciated if you could post clear images of both: (i) the $1 note itself; and (ii) the certificate of authenticity from Arts Limited. Your images would serve as useful supporting evidence for a post in a new forum thread I'm thinking about starting, for the benefit of less experienced collectors. This thread could be a centralised home to various Case Studies on scamming and other forms of dishonesty by specific individuals, businesses and entities โ especially within (but not exclusive to) the Ban ksy market.
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,782
Likes โข 6,706
June 2009
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Looking for works by Warhol, Obey, KAWS, Schifano, Christo.., by met on Jan 27, 2022 20:28:01 GMT 1, For our Gallery we are looking for works of art by the following artists: Andy Warhol Obey Mimmo Rotella Mario Schifano Emilio Tadini Steve Mccurry Donald Baechler Franco Angeli Robert Combas Christo Barry MCGEE Alighiero Boetti Agostino Bonalumi Luigi Ontani Tom WESSELMANN Emilio TADINI Eventually we also evaluate other artists with an international market. The proposed works must be accompanied by a certificate of authenticity and certified origin. We evaluate a direct acquisition or a collaboration for the sale of the proposed works of art. Please, contact us through email: info@stripgallery.it or by our official contact page: HEREStill searching...
EDIT: Apologies. I pressed 'Create Post' in error, before even starting to draft.
__________
These 'In Search Of' threads, and the repeated "Still searching..." posts (followed by their deletion, and then reposting at later dates), may well help you to secure the occasional seller or consignor.
But have you thought about their likely impact on public perception โ in particular, from the standpoint of any serious art collector?
If I may be candid, this type of practice makes your operation look terribly amateurish and desperate. Like some bedroom gallery, run by somebody who may be enthusiastic but lacks good business judgement.
For our Gallery we are looking for works of art by the following artists: Andy Warhol Obey Mimmo Rotella Mario Schifano Emilio Tadini Steve Mccurry Donald Baechler Franco Angeli Robert Combas Christo Barry MCGEE Alighiero Boetti Agostino Bonalumi Luigi Ontani Tom WESSELMANN Emilio TADINI Eventually we also evaluate other artists with an international market. The proposed works must be accompanied by a certificate of authenticity and certified origin. We evaluate a direct acquisition or a collaboration for the sale of the proposed works of art. Please, contact us through email: info@stripgallery.it or by our official contact page: HEREStill searching... EDIT: Apologies. I pressed 'Create Post' in error, before even starting to draft. __________ These 'In Search Of' threads, and the repeated "Still searching..." posts (followed by their deletion, and then reposting at later dates), may well help you to secure the occasional seller or consignor. But have you thought about their likely impact on public perception โ in particular, from the standpoint of any serious art collector? If I may be candid, this type of practice makes your operation look terribly amateurish and desperate. Like some bedroom gallery, run by somebody who may be enthusiastic but lacks good business judgement.
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,782
Likes โข 6,706
June 2009
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Who is this by please , by met on Jan 26, 2022 16:24:04 GMT 1,
The identity of whoever actually painted the mural doesn't seem especially significant.
It would be yet another random individual, either ripping off or paying homage to Banksy.
In this case, copying the Pictures On Walls-published sticker, BNK/5Y 024.
The identity of whoever actually painted the mural doesn't seem especially significant. It would be yet another random individual, either ripping off or paying homage to Ban ksy. In this case, copying the Pictures On Walls-published sticker, BNK/5Y 024.
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,782
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June 2009
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What TV are you watching at the moment?, by met on Jan 24, 2022 8:38:06 GMT 1, Looks like Ozark S4 will shortly be with us. Great show and highly recommend anyone getting up to speed before January.
Loved Ozark, can't wait. I see there's a new season of Narcos mexico to keep me going til then.
How brilliant, in particular, are some of the female cast members of Ozark?
Brace yourself for S4:E7 Sanctified.
Ruth (Julia Garner) is phenomenal. Her moment of rage becomes otherworldly.
Looks like Ozark S4 will shortly be with us. Great show and highly recommend anyone getting up to speed before January. Loved Ozark, can't wait. I see there's a new season of Narcos mexico to keep me going til then. How brilliant, in particular, are some of the female cast members of Ozark? Brace yourself for S4:E7 Sanctified. Ruth (Julia Garner) is phenomenal. Her moment of rage becomes otherworldly.
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,782
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June 2009
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Looking to buy something Banksy , by met on Jan 22, 2022 13:13:41 GMT 1, Does anyone have any good ideas for getting a Banksy poster or print that I could get for a collector? I want to get a surprise gift that can either be framed or mounted under $5,000. Iโm finding it will take months if not years to find something by Banksy thatโs not fake. Could you all help or maybe message me if you have something you are selling? Thank you all
Both you, doodle1133, and your fellow new member, doodle10, come across to me as impatient and perhaps overly keen.
These traits, combined with your ignorance of and inexperience with the Banksy market, place you at high risk of either getting scammed or taken advantage of.
__________
My recommendation would be that you consider forgetting about the surprise gift for the time being. And that you exercise self-discipline and restraint โ by not purchasing anything Banksy-related for the next 4โ6 months.
During this time, I suggest focusing instead on reading far more than you've already done. And being proactive in learning about:
(i) Banksy commercial works of art and Banksy ephemera (including the levels of risk when it comes to different fakes, and how best to identify particular fakes or otherwise mitigate the likelihood of being defrauded);
(ii) the various, specific private collectors, dealers and sale outlets for Banksy art and ephemera (including how reliable or untrustworthy each of them may or may not be);
(iii) the many and sometimes very expensive errors made by others before you, who were in a position comparable to your own (with a view to you avoiding making similar mistakes);
(iv) the culture and functioning of this forum (including, with respect to the latter, the different ways of using the Search facility); and
(v) the forum usernames or avatars that correspond to:
- members most likely to be knowledgeable, level-headed and honest;
- members whom one should be wary of (for example, because they have undisclosed multiple accounts, and/or are prone to hyping certain artists, art releases or businesses, without being transparent about their vested interests therein); and
- members who should be ignored or avoided at all costs โ including some of the ones who may reach out via private message in response your above post.
Does anyone have any good ideas for getting a Banksy poster or print that I could get for a collector? I want to get a surprise gift that can either be framed or mounted under $5,000. Iโm finding it will take months if not years to find something by Banksy thatโs not fake. Could you all help or maybe message me if you have something you are selling? Thank you all Both you, doodle1133, and your fellow new member, doodle10, come across to me as impatient and perhaps overly keen. These traits, combined with your ignorance of and inexperience with the Ban ksy market, place you at high risk of either getting scammed or taken advantage of. __________ My recommendation would be that you consider forgetting about the surprise gift for the time being. And that you exercise self-discipline and restraint โ by not purchasing anything Banksy-related for the next 4โ6 months. During this time, I suggest focusing instead on reading far more than you've already done. And being proactive in learning about: (i) Ban ksy commercial works of art and Ban ksy ephemera (including the levels of risk when it comes to different fakes, and how best to identify particular fakes or otherwise mitigate the likelihood of being defrauded); (ii) the various, specific private collectors, dealers and sale outlets for Ban ksy art and ephemera (including how reliable or untrustworthy each of them may or may not be); (iii) the many and sometimes very expensive errors made by others before you, who were in a position comparable to your own (with a view to you avoiding making similar mistakes); (iv) the culture and functioning of this forum (including, with respect to the latter, the different ways of using the Search facility); and (v) the forum usernames or avatars that correspond to: - members most likely to be knowledgeable, level-headed and honest; - members whom one should be wary of (for example, because they have undisclosed multiple accounts, and/or are prone to hyping certain artists, art releases or businesses, without being transparent about their vested interests therein); and - members who should be ignored or avoided at all costs โ including some of the ones who may reach out via private message in response your above post.
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met
Junior Member
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June 2009
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New Print Release and one to give away!, by met on Jan 20, 2022 2:44:20 GMT 1, We're currently busy in the chilly Atom Print Studio planning and working on new print editions, which we'll be releasing over the next few months!The first release of 2022 will be "Party Girl" by Stender, a witty mash-up of the Mona Lisa and The Cat in the Hat. New on the Urban Art scene, Stender is a self-taught artist and printmaker who predominantly works in screenprints and occasionally giclรฉe prints. Born and raised in the East End of London, and growing up in the 70โs and 80โs he likes to combine popular culture and topical subjects from that era and now, into his works. The name Stender is taken from his proud roots of being an Ea(stender).
A limited edition of 40, hand printed in 3 colours onto 50x70cm South Bank Smooth paper, "Party Girl" will be priced at ยฃ80 and will be released at midday (GMT) on Friday 28th January.
The above, as the eagle eyed among you will have spotted is a digital proof and not a photo of the actual print, I will post that at the end of this week/beginning of next when they should all be printed
Focusing on idea rather than execution, I would challenge the accuracy of "witty" when describing Party Girl.
This was the kind of juxtaposition and subject matter that may have felt fresh in 2003 โ at least in the context of so-called urban art. But it was then rehashed and regurgitated by what felt like a countless array of artists or aspiring artists. To the point where, by 2008, we were left with something which had become formulaic. Cookie-cutter art.
And now, in 2022, the Just add water! instructions have been followed yet again, for a tired concept that should perhaps have remained freeze-dried.
My own stance would be, "15 years too late. Clichรฉd work isn't good enough. We deserve better."
However, there is also merit in the alternative argument of, "10 years too early" (provided we dismiss considerations about novelty). It would mean embracing the 30-year cycle that blogger Patrick Metzger refers to as the "Nostalgia Pendulum"*.
We're currently busy in the chilly Atom Print Studio planning and working on new print editions, which we'll be releasing over the next few months!The first release of 2022 will be "Party Girl" by Stender, a witty mash-up of the Mona Lisa and The Cat in the Hat. New on the Urban Art scene, Stender is a self-taught artist and printmaker who predominantly works in screenprints and occasionally giclรฉe prints. Born and raised in the East End of London, and growing up in the 70โs and 80โs he likes to combine popular culture and topical subjects from that era and now, into his works. The name Stender is taken from his proud roots of being an Ea(stender).
A limited edition of 40, hand printed in 3 colours onto 50x70cm South Bank Smooth paper, "Party Girl" will be priced at ยฃ80 and will be released at midday (GMT) on Friday 28th January.
The above, as the eagle eyed among you will have spotted is a digital proof and not a photo of the actual print, I will post that at the end of this week/beginning of next when they should all be printed
Focusing on idea rather than execution, I would challenge the accuracy of "witty" when describing Party Girl. This was the kind of juxtaposition and subject matter that may have felt fresh in 2003 โ at least in the context of so-called ur ban art. But it was then rehashed and regurgitated by what felt like a countless array of artists or aspiring artists. To the point where, by 2008, we were left with something which had become formulaic. Cookie-cutter art. And now, in 2022, the Just add water! instructions have been followed yet again, for a tired concept that should perhaps have remained freeze-dried. My own stance would be, "15 years too late. Clichรฉd work isn't good enough. We deserve better."However, there is also merit in the alternative argument of, "10 years too early" (provided we dismiss considerations about novelty). It would mean embracing the 30-year cycle that blogger Patrick Metzger refers to as the "Nostalgia Pendulum"*.
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met
Junior Member
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June 2009
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Banksy Paris Hilton CD, by met on Dec 21, 2021 17:35:36 GMT 1, With further research, I discovered a 14 October 2020 sale at Tate Ward for ยฃ8,750*:
Oh, dear.
As Superintendent Hastings would say, โJesus, Mary and Joseph and the wee donkey!โ
But on the plus side, I suppose this does serve to emphasise points previously made:
If you choose to buy Banksy ephemera (posters, postcards, stickers, Di-Faced Tenners, or other items that don't come with a Pest Control Office COA), then you seriously better know your stuff. Because fakes are everywhere.
To my fellow members who have eyes in their heads, and haven't been blinded by self-deception โ Does anyone believe that sticker on the CD case looks authentic?
If only for seven or eight seconds, consider the following:
(i) odd brown colour; (ii) incorrect layout (spacing between the text and borders of the sticker); (iii) incorrect kerning (spacing between some of the individual letters); and (iv) corners of the sticker that look like they've been cut by hand with a pair of scissors.
Compare and contrast (genuine sticker on the bottom):
With further research, I discovered a 14 October 2020 sale at Tate Ward for ยฃ8,750*: Oh, dear. As Superintendent Hastings would say, โJesus, Mary and Joseph and the wee donkey!โBut on the plus side, I suppose this does serve to emphasise points previously made: If you choose to buy Ban ksy ephemera (posters, postcards, stickers, Di-Faced Tenners, or other items that don't come with a Pest Control Office COA), then you seriously better know your stuff. Because fakes are everywhere. To my fellow members who have eyes in their heads, and haven't been blinded by self-deception โ Does anyone believe that sticker on the CD case looks authentic? If only for seven or eight seconds, consider the following: (i) odd brown colour; (ii) incorrect layout (spacing between the text and borders of the sticker); (iii) incorrect kerning (spacing between some of the individual letters); and (iv) corners of the sticker that look like they've been cut by hand with a pair of scissors. Compare and contrast (genuine sticker on the bottom):
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,782
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June 2009
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Banksy Paris Hilton CD, by met on Dec 21, 2021 14:18:15 GMT 1, Yeah I was considering this CD awhile back but one thing about non-coa items is that unless your absolutely bullet proof youโre leaving yourself open to be burnt down the road. Especially if you want to keep options open incase you want to fund another purchase in the future.
I would concur.
Counterfeits in the Banksy market are pervasive, including pretty convincing ones โ whether described as "Banksy" studio originals, street pieces, stencils, prints, posters, postcards, stickers, Di-Faced Tenners, handsprayed record covers (e.g. The Capoiera Twins' 4 x 3 single, or Royksopp's Melody A.M. double LP), Paris Hilton CDs, Dismaland-stamped currency and so-called "found art", Walled Off Hotel box sets, Gross Domestic Product spraypaint cans, apparel, certificates of authenticity, or whatnot.
And this was largely already the case even before Pest Control Office was established in early 2008, now 14 years ago.
Moreover, a separate troublesome issue is the seeming hubris shown by a fair number of less-experienced Banksy enthusiasts. They typically know a decent amount about the artist's work, but delude themselves into believing they know far more. Members familiar with the Dunning-Kruger effect will be aware that ignorance fails to recognise itself.
And when this mindset is combined with wishful thinking along with an impatient excitement to build a Banksy collection right now, the scope for expensive mistakes being made is considerable.
__________
Of additional concern is unearned deference frequently awarded to dealers or auction house representatives, simply due to the positions they hold, or name recognition of the entities they represent.
For example, with titles like Director, Senior Specialist or Urban Art Specialist, easily-false assumptions can be made that the relevant professionals are actually competent in their field. That they know what they're doing. And what they're talking about.
But the reality is that many of these people are just playing a game of Fake it 'til you make it. When it comes to Banksy, their knowledge levels would be greatly surpassed by a good dozen contributors on this forum.
And so โ leaving aside for this purpose the cases of outright fraud โ a very real risk of the blind leading the blind is one reason why it is often reckless for businesses to deal in purported Banksy works (emphasis on "purported") that are unaccompanied by Pest Control Office certificates of authenticity.
[Comparable arguments apply to businesses that choose to repeatedly sell uncertificated, purported Basquiat or Haring sketches, drawings or paintings.]
Indeed, verified COAs offer buyers a welcome safety net, helping to compensate for professional salespeople:
(i) who may lack the requisite knowhow;
(ii) whose due diligence skills may be wanting or inadequate; and/or
(iii) who may be overly keen to take at face value the assurances of their client consignors with respect to provenance and authenticity, especially when suspect items are but one part of a larger consignment of multiple works.
Purported Banksy items that fail to qualify for potential certification โ because Pest Control Office doesn't deem them commercial works of art by the artist โ broadly consist of street pieces and ephemera.
Unsurprisingly, given the possible financial rewards and a lack of oversight from a competent and legitimate authority, this broad realm of uncertificated purported Banksys is disproportionately occupied by scammers, disingenuous chancers, slopsuckers and fools. As such, a proper minefield.
And due to the unpalatable company it would be keeping, any enterprise choosing to capitalise on this free-for-all of a market may also have difficulty simply retaining the mere appearance of being reputable.
An example for illustration purposes
Take Julien's Auctions in California โ a business with a significant track record for selling uncertificated works, some of them being patent fakes.**
At a certain point in the future, I might consider purchasing an item, and then learn it had once been sold through Julien's Auctions.
Now, rather than inspiring confidence, that provenance would instead give me reason for pause. It would be a red flag, pushing me to intensify my due diligence and verification efforts. And even if fully comfortable regarding authenticity, in my mind the item would remain slightly tainted by its historical association with an auction house I genuinely believe to be dodgy.
__________
Coming back to the Banksy Paris Hilton CDs, there could well be more counterfeits in circulation than real ones. The first fakes I became aware of were released in early 2008. At the time, @alittlebird gave forum members a helpful heads-up*:
These are in no way authorised by Ban ksy. There are currently 3 for sale on eb ay. Avoid.
With prices as they currently are (some CDs appear to have sold in the region of ยฃ3,000โยฃ3,750), if someone here ended up with a bogus copy, it would be depressing for them. That's a risky punt for anybody who isn't absolutely certain they know what they're buying. And by this I mean independently certain โ where reliance isn't solely placed on the soothing words of a random salesperson who never had a direct connection with the artist.
And while not being especially interesting to me in and of itself, pricing still catches my attention when it ties in with greater concerns, like authenticity issues or market machinations.
I am already aware of the Paris Hilton CD that Laz Emporium has listed for ยฃ10,000*:
lazemporium.com/products/paris
But has any member by chance kept a record of the highest publicly-verifiable price that one of these CDs has sold for?
If so, many thanks in advance if you could kindly post the relevant link.
Spending so much money on a purported Banksy without a COA from Pest Control Office would require the buyer to be especially well-informed. Or naive and gullible. Or just tragically stupid.
Yeah I was considering this CD awhile back but one thing about non-coa items is that unless your absolutely bullet proof youโre leaving yourself open to be burnt down the road. Especially if you want to keep options open incase you want to fund another purchase in the future. I would concur. Counterfeits in the Banksy market are pervasive, including pretty convincing ones โ whether described as "Ban ksy" studio originals, street pieces, stencils, prints, posters, postcards, stickers, Di-Faced Tenners, handsprayed record covers (e.g. The Capoiera Twins' 4 x 3 single, or Royksopp's Melody A.M. double LP), Paris Hilton CDs, Dismaland-stamped currency and so-called "found art", Walled Off Hotel box sets, Gross Domestic Product spraypaint cans, apparel, certificates of authenticity, or whatnot. And this was largely already the case even before Pest Control Office was established in early 2008, now 14 years ago. Moreover, a separate troublesome issue is the seeming hubris shown by a fair number of less-experienced Ban ksy enthusiasts. They typically know a decent amount about the artist's work, but delude themselves into believing they know far more. Members familiar with the Dunning-Kruger effect will be aware that ignorance fails to recognise itself. And when this mindset is combined with wishful thinking along with an impatient excitement to build a Ban ksy collection right now, the scope for expensive mistakes being made is considerable. __________ Of additional concern is unearned deference frequently awarded to dealers or auction house representatives, simply due to the positions they hold, or name recognition of the entities they represent. For example, with titles like Director, Senior Specialist or Ur ban Art Specialist, easily-false assumptions can be made that the relevant professionals are actually competent in their field. That they know what they're doing. And what they're talking about. But the reality is that many of these people are just playing a game of Fake it 'til you make it. When it comes to Ban ksy, their knowledge levels would be greatly surpassed by a good dozen contributors on this forum. And so โ leaving aside for this purpose the cases of outright fraud โ a very real risk of the blind leading the blind is one reason why it is often reckless for businesses to deal in purported Ban ksy works (emphasis on "purported") that are unaccompanied by Pest Control Office certificates of authenticity. [Comparable arguments apply to businesses that choose to repeatedly sell uncertificated, purported Basquiat or Haring sketches, drawings or paintings.]Indeed, verified COAs offer buyers a welcome safety net, helping to compensate for professional salespeople: (i) who may lack the requisite knowhow; (ii) whose due diligence skills may be wanting or inadequate; and/or (iii) who may be overly keen to take at face value the assurances of their client consignors with respect to provenance and authenticity, especially when suspect items are but one part of a larger consignment of multiple works. Purported Ban ksy items that fail to qualify for potential certification โ because Pest Control Office doesn't deem them commercial works of art by the artist โ broadly consist of street pieces and ephemera. Unsurprisingly, given the possible financial rewards and a lack of oversight from a competent and legitimate authority, this broad realm of uncertificated purported Banksys is disproportionately occupied by scammers, disingenuous chancers, slopsuckers and fools. As such, a proper minefield. And due to the unpalatable company it would be keeping, any enterprise choosing to capitalise on this free-for-all of a market may also have difficulty simply retaining the mere appearance of being reputable. An example for illustration purposesTake Julien's Auctions in California โ a business with a significant track record for selling uncertificated works, some of them being patent fakes. **At a certain point in the future, I might consider purchasing an item, and then learn it had once been sold through Julien's Auctions. Now, rather than inspiring confidence, that provenance would instead give me reason for pause. It would be a red flag, pushing me to intensify my due diligence and verification efforts. And even if fully comfortable regarding authenticity, in my mind the item would remain slightly tainted by its historical association with an auction house I genuinely believe to be dodgy. __________ Coming back to the Ban ksy Paris Hilton CDs, there could well be more counterfeits in circulation than real ones. The first fakes I became aware of were released in early 2008. At the time, @alittlebird gave forum members a helpful heads-up *: These are in no way authorised by Ban ksy. There are currently 3 for sale on eb ay. Avoid. With prices as they currently are (some CDs appear to have sold in the region of ยฃ3,000โยฃ3,750), if someone here ended up with a bogus copy, it would be depressing for them. That's a risky punt for anybody who isn't absolutely certain they know what they're buying. And by this I mean independently certain โ where reliance isn't solely placed on the soothing words of a random salesperson who never had a direct connection with the artist. And while not being especially interesting to me in and of itself, pricing still catches my attention when it ties in with greater concerns, like authenticity issues or market machinations. I am already aware of the Paris Hilton CD that Laz Emporium has listed for ยฃ10,000*: lazemporium.com/products/parisBut has any member by chance kept a record of the highest publicly-verifiable price that one of these CDs has sold for? If so, many thanks in advance if you could kindly post the relevant link. Spending so much money on a purported Ban ksy without a COA from Pest Control Office would require the buyer to be especially well-informed. Or naive and gullible. Or just tragically stupid.
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met
Junior Member
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Likes โข 6,706
June 2009
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Banksy โข Box Set, Walled Off Hotel, by met on Dec 19, 2021 10:15:12 GMT 1, Well, that was a quick result. I see the seller has already parted ways with the Ur ban Art Association โ at least under the guise of @buckets101 / Mohammed123. Monkey โ Provided you agree this gesture of immediately deleting their account was an implied admission of guilt by a fraudster who was selling fakes to members of this forum, perhaps you would be kind enough to share with us their name and contact details, including PayPal address. This may help to lower the risk of other members getting conned if that same individual later reappears under a different username. Agreed. Paypal / email is nidal.nidal.issa@gmail.comThe associated name was Nidal AlababHope that'll help
With a six-month delayed acknowledgement, I am heavily relying on the proverb, Better late than never.
Monkey โ Many thanks for confirming the email and name you had for @buckets101 / Mohammed123.
It often takes strength of character to do the right thing, stick your head above the parapet, and (in this instance) potentially expose yourself to unpleasant pushback from a fraudster who had just been outed.
I appreciate and respect your efforts in giving other members here a specific heads-up. It was also a useful general reminder to everyone that scammers operate on all platforms, including this forum.
Although nidal.nidal.issa@gmail.com is likely to be a burner account, and Nidal Alabab could very easily be a pseudonym, those details may well have been used on previous occasions when communicating or registering with other people or businesses.
If anyone is on friendly terms with the team at the Walled Off Hotel, please forward them the above email address and name. Either or both could match up with an individual the hotel has previously dealt with (e.g. a gift shop customer) โ which might possibly help staff put two and two together, and actually identify a Banksy box set counterfeiter.
Well, that was a quick result. I see the seller has already parted ways with the Ur ban Art Association โ at least under the guise of @buckets101 / Mohammed123. Monkey โ Provided you agree this gesture of immediately deleting their account was an implied admission of guilt by a fraudster who was selling fakes to members of this forum, perhaps you would be kind enough to share with us their name and contact details, including PayPal address. This may help to lower the risk of other members getting conned if that same individual later reappears under a different username. Agreed. Paypal / email is nidal.nidal.issa@gmail.comThe associated name was Nidal AlababHope that'll help With a six-month delayed acknowledgement, I am heavily relying on the proverb, Better late than never. Monkey โ Many thanks for confirming the email and name you had for @ buckets101 / Mohammed123. It often takes strength of character to do the right thing, stick your head above the parapet, and (in this instance) potentially expose yourself to unpleasant pushback from a fraudster who had just been outed. I appreciate and respect your efforts in giving other members here a specific heads-up. It was also a useful general reminder to everyone that scammers operate on all platforms, including this forum. Although nidal.nidal.issa@gmail.com is likely to be a burner account, and Nidal Alabab could very easily be a pseudonym, those details may well have been used on previous occasions when communicating or registering with other people or businesses. If anyone is on friendly terms with the team at the Walled Off Hotel, please forward them the above email address and name. Either or both could match up with an individual the hotel has previously dealt with (e.g. a gift shop customer) โ which might possibly help staff put two and two together, and actually identify a Ban ksy box set counterfeiter.
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,782
Likes โข 6,706
June 2009
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Banksy Stickers โข All Designs, by met on Dec 19, 2021 8:34:13 GMT 1, Hi I would appreciate some help. I traded this 'Americans Working Overhead' sticker around twenty years ago of a trusted dealer. The rear print says only 'SPLIT' . Is this a fake as I cannot find another like it, which is annoying as I am trying to sell because I,m unemployed at the moment... Any help would be great. HAPPY CHRISTMAS X
Just a few additional queries, which I hope you'll be able to assist with:
1. At the time, what did you trade this sticker for?
2. By "around twenty years ago", do you mean around 2001?
3. Please could you confirm who the trusted dealer is.
Hi I would appreciate some help. I traded this 'Americans Working Overhead' sticker around twenty years ago of a trusted dealer. The rear print says only 'SPLIT' . Is this a fake as I cannot find another like it, which is annoying as I am trying to sell because I,m unemployed at the moment... Any help would be great. HAPPY CHRISTMAS X Just a few additional queries, which I hope you'll be able to assist with: 1. At the time, what did you trade this sticker for? 2. By "around twenty years ago", do you mean around 2001? 3. Please could you confirm who the trusted dealer is.
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,782
Likes โข 6,706
June 2009
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Banksy now selling his own street work, by met on Dec 17, 2021 14:56:16 GMT 1, If you ask me I don't think that the stencil that is displayed is the stencil that was used to spray the piece on the prison wall. But I guess that doesn't matter, because it's more like a symbolic kind of thing. I hope that it raises a lot of money!
To show you what I mean: compare the spraypaint on the typewriter on the stencil in the video with the spraypaint on the typewriter on the stencil on the wall.
I believe it is the same stencil, and cannot think of a good reason why it wouldn't be.
The spraypaint comparison is a red herring.
As the piece is being sold and the idea is to raise as much money as possible, it will have been resprayed white at the studio afterwards. This, for aesthetic reasons โ to bring back the contrast between the stencil card and its cut-out areas, allowing the image to be properly seen again. Otherwise, the buyer would end up with what would look like black blobs.
Enhancing visual appeal is possibly the same reason why the grey stripes were also added to the stencil, on the prison uniform.
Check out the different sections of paper in your comparison photos, for example to the left of the typewriter, and where those sections meet or overlap. See too the placement of both the duct tape and masking tape. They look either similar or the same to me.
A somewhat comparable presentation was made by Banksy with one of his Flower Thrower stencils at the 2006 Barely Legal show in Los Angeles:
If you ask me I don't think that the stencil that is displayed is the stencil that was used to spray the piece on the prison wall. But I guess that doesn't matter, because it's more like a symbolic kind of thing. I hope that it raises a lot of money! To show you what I mean: compare the spraypaint on the typewriter on the stencil in the video with the spraypaint on the typewriter on the stencil on the wall. I believe it is the same stencil, and cannot think of a good reason why it wouldn't be. The spraypaint comparison is a red herring. As the piece is being sold and the idea is to raise as much money as possible, it will have been resprayed white at the studio afterwards. This, for aesthetic reasons โ to bring back the contrast between the stencil card and its cut-out areas, allowing the image to be properly seen again. Otherwise, the buyer would end up with what would look like black blobs. Enhancing visual appeal is possibly the same reason why the grey stripes were also added to the stencil, on the prison uniform. Check out the different sections of paper in your comparison photos, for example to the left of the typewriter, and where those sections meet or overlap. See too the placement of both the duct tape and masking tape. They look either similar or the same to me. A somewhat comparable presentation was made by Banksy with one of his Flower Thrower stencils at the 2006 Barely Legal show in Los Angeles:
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,782
Likes โข 6,706
June 2009
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Banksy + Clown Skateboards, by met on Dec 17, 2021 12:55:34 GMT 1, Whoโs buying? Todayโs the lucky day! ๐๐ฉ๐ปโ๐ฆฏ 100% of the profits will be donated to Clown Skateboards In Action Clown Skateboards In Action is a Community interest company: 13424776 ยฃ8,000.00 Please fill in your details below and if successful, a member of our team will send a payment link for the artwork. Application open for 24 hours only. stowe-gallery.com/pages/application?
Anyone who's paying attention will know "100% of the profits" could mean anything. It therefore means nothing.
This kind of statement is deliberately opaque โ while cynically feigning clarity.
It's a deceptive way of doing business, especially when also making a song and dance about a cause that will supposedly benefit.
__________
To my fellow members with critical minds, it's always worth examining the choice of words that are often carefully selected by chancers.
A simple exaggerated illustration:
When selling edition X for ยฃ8,000, Joe Scammer might allocate 99.8% of the total proceeds to overhead, materials, salaries, bonuses, other operating expenses, "admin", what is euphemistically listed on invoices as 'fruit and flowers', random fees, etc.
The 0.2% left over might be donated to Save the Children.
In a self-congratulatory and still technically-accurate manner, Joe Scammer could then proclaim to the whole world that, "100% of the profits from our sale went to charity! Yay us!!!"
If there is zero transparency being offered on the specific net amount to be received by the relevant cause, then any reference to "donation" is best avoided โ as a matter of decency.
__________
Robert Del Naja did things the right way last year, in favour of Bristol Food Union.*
His is the example to be followed:
Absolutely. But at the same time, when purporting to raise money for a charitable cause, full transparency is the only correct way to proceed. Frankly, no other way is ethically acceptable. There should never be any ambiguity, scope for dodginess, or even room for suspicion that the charity banner is possibly being abused โ as is the case when unhelpfully vague references are made, like "All profits will go to [x]". So this is less a comment about what Robert Del Na ja is doing right, than about what others are doing poorly.
Whoโs buying? Todayโs the lucky day! ๐๐ฉ๐ปโ๐ฆฏ 100% of the profits will be donated to Clown Skateboards In Action Clown Skateboards In Action is a Community interest company: 13424776 ยฃ8,000.00 Please fill in your details below and if successful, a member of our team will send a payment link for the artwork. Application open for 24 hours only. stowe-gallery.com/pages/application?Anyone who's paying attention will know "100% of the profits" could mean anything. It therefore means nothing. This kind of statement is deliberately opaque โ while cynically feigning clarity. It's a deceptive way of doing business, especially when also making a song and dance about a cause that will supposedly benefit. __________ To my fellow members with critical minds, it's always worth examining the choice of words that are often carefully selected by chancers. A simple exaggerated illustration:
When selling edition X for ยฃ8,000, Joe Scammer might allocate 99.8% of the total proceeds to overhead, materials, salaries, bonuses, other operating expenses, "admin", what is euphemistically listed on invoices as 'fruit and flowers', random fees, etc.
The 0.2% left over might be donated to Save the Children.
In a self-congratulatory and still technically-accurate manner, Joe Scammer could then proclaim to the whole world that, "100% of the profits from our sale went to charity! Yay us!!!"If there is zero transparency being offered on the specific net amount to be received by the relevant cause, then any reference to "donation" is best avoided โ as a matter of decency. __________ Robert Del Naja did things the right way last year, in favour of Bristol Food Union. *His is the example to be followed: Absolutely. But at the same time, when purporting to raise money for a charitable cause, full transparency is the only correct way to proceed. Frankly, no other way is ethically acceptable. There should never be any ambiguity, scope for dodginess, or even room for suspicion that the charity banner is possibly being abused โ as is the case when unhelpfully vague references are made, like "All profits will go to [x]". So this is less a comment about what Robert Del Na ja is doing right, than about what others are doing poorly.
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met
Junior Member
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June 2009
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Banksy now selling his own street work, by met on Dec 17, 2021 8:31:42 GMT 1, Banksy will sell jailbreak stencil for ยฃ10m. www.theartnewspaper.com/2021/12/06/banksy-sells-his-jail-break-stencil-to-save-reading-prisonNow I understand that this is for a good cause, and he made it so he should have the right to sell, if he owns it. But what about the people who own the property, were he sprayed his other works? They are now the official owners of the work, shouldn't they be entitled to sell theirs? And what will pest control do? They can't certify this piece for sure, and not the others. That would be unfair, wouldn't it?
It sounds like there may be a translation or language-comprehension issue here.
You need to distinguish:
(a) the actual stencil (which is going up for sale); from
(b) the stencil painting on Reading Gaol (not for sale).
Banksy will sell jailbreak stencil for ยฃ10m. www.theartnewspaper.com/2021/12/06/banksy-sells-his-jail-break-stencil-to-save-reading-prisonNow I understand that this is for a good cause, and he made it so he should have the right to sell, if he owns it. But what about the people who own the property, were he sprayed his other works? They are now the official owners of the work, shouldn't they be entitled to sell theirs? And what will pest control do? They can't certify this piece for sure, and not the others. That would be unfair, wouldn't it? It sounds like there may be a translation or language-comprehension issue here. You need to distinguish: (a) the actual stencil (which is going up for sale); from (b) the stencil painting on Reading Gaol ( not for sale).
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