Deleted
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Isis, by Deleted on Oct 6, 2014 0:03:16 GMT 1, What a clusterfcuk this latest offensive is going to become
Bombs heal complex situations always
Someone will have to remind me who are the good guys and who are the bad, because it's getting fcuking blurry
for clarity I am not saying isis are the good guys, They clearly are not, the problem comes with the Wests policy, those we decide to fight alongside and the evil we create with the poor decisions we make ... Why is one evil dictatorship suddenly acceptable under the right conditions? Why is one extreme militia suddenly our allie to be armed ? Why is violence always the answer?
What a clusterfcuk this latest offensive is going to become
Bombs heal complex situations always
Someone will have to remind me who are the good guys and who are the bad, because it's getting fcuking blurry
for clarity I am not saying isis are the good guys, They clearly are not, the problem comes with the Wests policy, those we decide to fight alongside and the evil we create with the poor decisions we make ... Why is one evil dictatorship suddenly acceptable under the right conditions? Why is one extreme militia suddenly our allie to be armed ? Why is violence always the answer?
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maxf
New Member
🗨️ 470
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October 2012
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Isis, by maxf on Oct 6, 2014 6:02:37 GMT 1, Not that blurry in this case surely?
Not that blurry in this case surely?
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iamzero
Full Member
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Isis
Oct 6, 2014 7:06:15 GMT 1
Isis, by iamzero on Oct 6, 2014 7:06:15 GMT 1, What a clusterfcuk this latest offensive is going to become Bombs heal complex situations always Someone will have to remind me who are the good guys and who are the bad, because it's getting fcuking blurry
Dude you've made some pretty big comments aimed at winding people up on here over time that I often do find amusing but this time you really can't be f**kin' serious? This thread needs deleting, it's offensive and insensitive.
What a clusterfcuk this latest offensive is going to become Bombs heal complex situations always Someone will have to remind me who are the good guys and who are the bad, because it's getting fcuking blurry Dude you've made some pretty big comments aimed at winding people up on here over time that I often do find amusing but this time you really can't be f**kin' serious? This thread needs deleting, it's offensive and insensitive.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Isis
Oct 6, 2014 8:09:29 GMT 1
Isis, by Deleted on Oct 6, 2014 8:09:29 GMT 1, I take it you realise the allegiances being made in the name of this latest war? The least we can do is question it.
I take it you realise the allegiances being made in the name of this latest war? The least we can do is question it.
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Deleted
🗨️ 0
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January 1970
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Isis
Oct 6, 2014 8:14:15 GMT 1
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iamzero
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Isis
Oct 6, 2014 9:00:23 GMT 1
via mobile
Isis, by iamzero on Oct 6, 2014 9:00:23 GMT 1, The enemy of my enemy is not always my friend.
The enemy of my enemy is not always my friend.
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Isis
Oct 6, 2014 10:40:21 GMT 1
via mobile
Isis, by Jeezuz Jones Snr on Oct 6, 2014 10:40:21 GMT 1, What a clusterfcuk this latest offensive is going to become Bombs heal complex situations always Someone will have to remind me who are the good guys and who are the bad, because it's getting fcuking blurry
Fishing for bites!! Did someone say you can ignore or block forum members.. How do I do this.. Cheers
What a clusterfcuk this latest offensive is going to become Bombs heal complex situations always Someone will have to remind me who are the good guys and who are the bad, because it's getting fcuking blurry Fishing for bites!! Did someone say you can ignore or block forum members.. How do I do this.. Cheers
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Deleted
🗨️ 0
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January 1970
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Isis
Oct 6, 2014 10:46:28 GMT 1
Isis, by Deleted on Oct 6, 2014 10:46:28 GMT 1, are we at war now with Eurasia or Eastasia ? I find it all so confusing
are we at war now with Eurasia or Eastasia ? I find it all so confusing
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Isis
Oct 6, 2014 11:12:01 GMT 1
Isis, by searchandrescue on Oct 6, 2014 11:12:01 GMT 1, Awful conflict, what a S**t Storm, although a bit of me (the little boy with the Observer's Book of Aircraft c.1979) was excited about the Panavia "Tornado" being deployed on sortee's.
Awful conflict, what a S**t Storm, although a bit of me (the little boy with the Observer's Book of Aircraft c.1979) was excited about the Panavia "Tornado" being deployed on sortee's.
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jonb
New Member
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July 2014
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Isis
Oct 6, 2014 11:38:30 GMT 1
Isis, by jonb on Oct 6, 2014 11:38:30 GMT 1, There are only two words for people now, fanatics and collateral, the press decide which you are after you have been blown up. Soon there will only be one word for News speakers.
There are only two words for people now, fanatics and collateral, the press decide which you are after you have been blown up. Soon there will only be one word for News speakers.
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dreadnatty
Junior Member
🗨️ 5,431
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February 2013
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Isis
Oct 6, 2014 14:29:36 GMT 1
Isis, by dreadnatty on Oct 6, 2014 14:29:36 GMT 1, What a clusterfcuk this latest offensive is going to become Bombs heal complex situations always Someone will have to remind me who are the good guys and who are the bad, because it's getting fcuking blurry Fishing for bites!! Did someone say you can ignore or block forum members.. How do I do this.. Cheers Profile --> Edit Profile --> Privacy --> scroll down to "Member Block List"
What a clusterfcuk this latest offensive is going to become Bombs heal complex situations always Someone will have to remind me who are the good guys and who are the bad, because it's getting fcuking blurry Fishing for bites!! Did someone say you can ignore or block forum members.. How do I do this.. Cheers Profile --> Edit Profile --> Privacy --> scroll down to "Member Block List"
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johnnyh
Junior Member
🗨️ 4,492
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March 2011
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Isis
Oct 6, 2014 15:49:31 GMT 1
Isis, by johnnyh on Oct 6, 2014 15:49:31 GMT 1, What a clusterfcuk this latest offensive is going to become Bombs heal complex situations always Someone will have to remind me who are the good guys and who are the bad, because it's getting fcuking blurry So come on the Badrobot why don't you and mmike put your money where your mouth is and explain away the atrocities that ISIs are committing and I am not just talking about the odd westerner they behead. Then explain what you would do to stop them attacking city after City and murdering huge numbers of the people who live in those towns and cities.......
What a clusterfcuk this latest offensive is going to become Bombs heal complex situations always Someone will have to remind me who are the good guys and who are the bad, because it's getting fcuking blurry So come on the Badrobot why don't you and mmike put your money where your mouth is and explain away the atrocities that ISIs are committing and I am not just talking about the odd westerner they behead. Then explain what you would do to stop them attacking city after City and murdering huge numbers of the people who live in those towns and cities.......
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Isis
Oct 6, 2014 15:57:00 GMT 1
Isis, by Deleted on Oct 6, 2014 15:57:00 GMT 1, The enemy of my enemy is not always my friend. The enemy of my enemy gives me oil
The enemy of my enemy is not always my friend. The enemy of my enemy gives me oil
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Deleted
🗨️ 0
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January 1970
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Isis
Oct 6, 2014 16:06:40 GMT 1
Isis, by Deleted on Oct 6, 2014 16:06:40 GMT 1, What a clusterfcuk this latest offensive is going to become Bombs heal complex situations always Someone will have to remind me who are the good guys and who are the bad, because it's getting fcuking blurry Dude you've made some pretty big comments aimed at winding people up on here over time that I often do find amusing but this time you really can't be f**kin' serious? This thread needs deleting, it's offensive and insensitive. Why would you want this thread deleted? Are you one of those who thought Israel murder of 2100 innocent people was proportionate? Im not condoning ISIS, but look at what atrocities have been committed by Muslims on Muslims (Shia on Sunni, Sunni on Shia). What ISIS is doing is disgusting but I've seen Israel commit far worse with the support and weapons of the west
Let World War 3 come and lets get it over with - its going that way anyway!!
What a clusterfcuk this latest offensive is going to become Bombs heal complex situations always Someone will have to remind me who are the good guys and who are the bad, because it's getting fcuking blurry Dude you've made some pretty big comments aimed at winding people up on here over time that I often do find amusing but this time you really can't be f**kin' serious? This thread needs deleting, it's offensive and insensitive. Why would you want this thread deleted? Are you one of those who thought Israel murder of 2100 innocent people was proportionate? Im not condoning ISIS, but look at what atrocities have been committed by Muslims on Muslims (Shia on Sunni, Sunni on Shia). What ISIS is doing is disgusting but I've seen Israel commit far worse with the support and weapons of the west Let World War 3 come and lets get it over with - its going that way anyway!!
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jonb
New Member
🗨️ 82
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July 2014
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Isis
Oct 6, 2014 16:13:04 GMT 1
Isis, by jonb on Oct 6, 2014 16:13:04 GMT 1, When has policing by bombing worked? When your family becomes collateral, do you become more fanatical, or say well its just one of those things, they did not mean it. If I was president of the USA would I look at the criticism being levelled at me for inaction and accept that because of it I will probably loose the next election, or do something that has never worked will kill hundreds of thousands and will keep me in office?
Bombing is not the answer and never has been.
When has policing by bombing worked? When your family becomes collateral, do you become more fanatical, or say well its just one of those things, they did not mean it. If I was president of the USA would I look at the criticism being levelled at me for inaction and accept that because of it I will probably loose the next election, or do something that has never worked will kill hundreds of thousands and will keep me in office? Bombing is not the answer and never has been.
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Isis
Oct 6, 2014 16:28:56 GMT 1
Isis, by curiousgeorge on Oct 6, 2014 16:28:56 GMT 1, What a clusterfcuk this latest offensive is going to become Bombs heal complex situations always Someone will have to remind me who are the good guys and who are the bad, because it's getting fcuking blurry Dude you've made some pretty big comments aimed at winding people up on here over time that I often do find amusing but this time you really can't be f**kin' serious? This thread needs deleting, it's offensive and insensitive. I'm confused at this reply!
Why does it need deleting exactly? You actually think BR posts to wind people up??
What part of the post don't you agree with?
What a clusterfcuk this latest offensive is going to become Bombs heal complex situations always Someone will have to remind me who are the good guys and who are the bad, because it's getting fcuking blurry Dude you've made some pretty big comments aimed at winding people up on here over time that I often do find amusing but this time you really can't be f**kin' serious? This thread needs deleting, it's offensive and insensitive. I'm confused at this reply! Why does it need deleting exactly? You actually think BR posts to wind people up?? What part of the post don't you agree with?
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iamzero
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Isis
Oct 6, 2014 16:49:22 GMT 1
via mobile
Isis, by iamzero on Oct 6, 2014 16:49:22 GMT 1, What you've just done by accusing me of siding with a country like Israel is exactly the reason this needs deleting... How do do go about making that assumption? It just turns the thread into a mass personal slagging session, I'm not being drawn into. Comments like that are uncalled for dude. You have no idea on my beliefs or views so how dare you assume I'm 'one of those people'.
Cowardly masked murders deserve no airtime in this age and especially not an an art forum. What they do hiding behind religion can't be defended in any way. The coward using that knife to butcher a descent human being, that had been proven in a court of their own to be innocent is British. It's embarrassing.
Delete this thread before it becomes too heated.
What you've just done by accusing me of siding with a country like Israel is exactly the reason this needs deleting... How do do go about making that assumption? It just turns the thread into a mass personal slagging session, I'm not being drawn into. Comments like that are uncalled for dude. You have no idea on my beliefs or views so how dare you assume I'm 'one of those people'.
Cowardly masked murders deserve no airtime in this age and especially not an an art forum. What they do hiding behind religion can't be defended in any way. The coward using that knife to butcher a descent human being, that had been proven in a court of their own to be innocent is British. It's embarrassing.
Delete this thread before it becomes too heated.
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sgolby
Junior Member
🗨️ 1,890
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November 2012
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Isis
Oct 6, 2014 16:56:47 GMT 1
Isis, by sgolby on Oct 6, 2014 16:56:47 GMT 1, ... Delete this thread before it becomes too heated. Seconded, most people speak about his subject from an emotional place, which is understandable but will inevitably result in a lot of heat, misguided judgement, and absolute statements. The fact is this issue is incredibly complex, yes policing with bombs is by far the worst thing to do when confronting extremism. Howeer the solutions are way to gray and complex to be discussed on a thread like this where folks can't even be rational about missing out on a piece of printed paper. S
... Delete this thread before it becomes too heated. Seconded, most people speak about his subject from an emotional place, which is understandable but will inevitably result in a lot of heat, misguided judgement, and absolute statements. The fact is this issue is incredibly complex, yes policing with bombs is by far the worst thing to do when confronting extremism. Howeer the solutions are way to gray and complex to be discussed on a thread like this where folks can't even be rational about missing out on a piece of printed paper. S
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Isis
Oct 6, 2014 16:56:49 GMT 1
Isis, by curiousgeorge on Oct 6, 2014 16:56:49 GMT 1, What EXACTLY are you talking about zero? Did I miss an edit?
All I saw was a member with eyes WIDE open talking about current affairs?
What EXACTLY are you talking about zero? Did I miss an edit?
All I saw was a member with eyes WIDE open talking about current affairs?
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jonb
New Member
🗨️ 82
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July 2014
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Isis
Oct 6, 2014 17:05:38 GMT 1
Isis, by jonb on Oct 6, 2014 17:05:38 GMT 1, I agree it is unfair to imply because of one post this person is this or that, and I also realise that this thread is dealing with things that can make people very hot under the collar, but I am very much for keeping this thread the answer to war is not winning, it is talking. If we cant talk the only answer becomes for fanatics to fight it out.
I know we will hear very strongly held opinions, and they will not always be expressed in a positive way, but as a believer in democracy I think we must hear these voices even if what we hear offends us.
Otherwise we become like Clapton council painting over a Banksy just because. . . .
I agree it is unfair to imply because of one post this person is this or that, and I also realise that this thread is dealing with things that can make people very hot under the collar, but I am very much for keeping this thread the answer to war is not winning, it is talking. If we cant talk the only answer becomes for fanatics to fight it out.
I know we will hear very strongly held opinions, and they will not always be expressed in a positive way, but as a believer in democracy I think we must hear these voices even if what we hear offends us.
Otherwise we become like Clapton council painting over a Banksy just because. . . .
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iamzero
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Isis
Oct 6, 2014 17:11:51 GMT 1
via mobile
Isis, by iamzero on Oct 6, 2014 17:11:51 GMT 1, Howeer the solutions are way to gray and complex to be discussed on a thread like this where folks can't even be rational about missing out on a piece of printed paper. S
This^^^^^
Thread is dead for me.
Howeer the solutions are way to gray and complex to be discussed on a thread like this where folks can't even be rational about missing out on a piece of printed paper. S
This^^^^^
Thread is dead for me.
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jonb
New Member
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Isis
Oct 6, 2014 17:25:58 GMT 1
Isis, by jonb on Oct 6, 2014 17:25:58 GMT 1, Howeer the solutions are way to gray and complex to be discussed on a thread like this where folks can't even be rational about missing out on a piece of printed paper. S This^^^^^ Thread is dead for me. I see your point, but even if a response is just emotional I think it should be aired, if we are to get to an understanding
Howeer the solutions are way to gray and complex to be discussed on a thread like this where folks can't even be rational about missing out on a piece of printed paper. S This^^^^^ Thread is dead for me. I see your point, but even if a response is just emotional I think it should be aired, if we are to get to an understanding
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dreadnatty
Junior Member
🗨️ 5,431
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February 2013
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Isis
Oct 6, 2014 17:29:11 GMT 1
Isis, by dreadnatty on Oct 6, 2014 17:29:11 GMT 1, Does anyone know if there is a way to block particular threads (i know we can block members)? If not is there anyway this can be done mods Daniel Silk Wearology ?
Does anyone know if there is a way to block particular threads (i know we can block members)? If not is there anyway this can be done mods Daniel Silk Wearology ?
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Deleted
🗨️ 0
👍🏻
January 1970
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Isis
Oct 6, 2014 17:36:08 GMT 1
Isis, by Deleted on Oct 6, 2014 17:36:08 GMT 1, given the venn diagram that is politics/current affairs/art ( mostly) maybe a seperate current affairs sub forum would be useful here innit
given the venn diagram that is politics/current affairs/art ( mostly) maybe a seperate current affairs sub forum would be useful here innit
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jonb
New Member
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July 2014
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Isis
Oct 6, 2014 17:43:20 GMT 1
Isis, by jonb on Oct 6, 2014 17:43:20 GMT 1, Don't forget Religion and flipping, God its already looking quite big.
Don't forget Religion and flipping, God its already looking quite big.
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sgolby
Junior Member
🗨️ 1,890
👍🏻 2,892
November 2012
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Isis
Oct 6, 2014 17:46:00 GMT 1
Isis, by sgolby on Oct 6, 2014 17:46:00 GMT 1, Howeer the solutions are way to gray and complex to be discussed on a thread like this where folks can't even be rational about missing out on a piece of printed paper. S This^^^^^ Thread is dead for me. I see your point, but even if a response is just emotional I think it should be aired, if we are to get to an understanding Agreed, however most, if not all, opinions formed from emotion rather than research and fact, are almost impossible to argue against. In order to have an informed conversation about this subject people should at least have a working knowledge if islam and it's history. I would be surprised if more than a few people on here even know the difference between shia and sunni. They should also have an understanding of the history of the middle east, and the manner in which tribal areas were cobbled together to form countries despite these tribes independance from one another, and hownin kost cases they were forced to become part of a country in which they were a minority, with an often tyrannical military or royalty syetem of rule. That is just to start.
to bring israel/palestine into this is silly, because they have nothing to do with Isis, other than the latter using it as a recruitment tool in their propoganda. However, to draw parralels between the radicalization of palestinian youth and followers of isis could be acceptable, despite the fact that palestinians view their fight as one for independance and not one to form a radical islamic state, or if you prefer a caliphate.
I agree with the statement that bombs solve nothing, but neither do beheadings. True, discussion does, however before discussig even an emotinal position, one should be well informed. Who on here is? I certain,y am not.
S
Howeer the solutions are way to gray and complex to be discussed on a thread like this where folks can't even be rational about missing out on a piece of printed paper. S This^^^^^ Thread is dead for me. I see your point, but even if a response is just emotional I think it should be aired, if we are to get to an understanding Agreed, however most, if not all, opinions formed from emotion rather than research and fact, are almost impossible to argue against. In order to have an informed conversation about this subject people should at least have a working knowledge if islam and it's history. I would be surprised if more than a few people on here even know the difference between shia and sunni. They should also have an understanding of the history of the middle east, and the manner in which tribal areas were cobbled together to form countries despite these tribes independance from one another, and hownin kost cases they were forced to become part of a country in which they were a minority, with an often tyrannical military or royalty syetem of rule. That is just to start. to bring israel/palestine into this is silly, because they have nothing to do with Isis, other than the latter using it as a recruitment tool in their propoganda. However, to draw parralels between the radicalization of palestinian youth and followers of isis could be acceptable, despite the fact that palestinians view their fight as one for independance and not one to form a radical islamic state, or if you prefer a caliphate. I agree with the statement that bombs solve nothing, but neither do beheadings. True, discussion does, however before discussig even an emotinal position, one should be well informed. Who on here is? I certain,y am not. S
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sparky999
New Member
🗨️ 714
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October 2013
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Isis
Oct 6, 2014 18:06:24 GMT 1
Isis, by sparky999 on Oct 6, 2014 18:06:24 GMT 1, y'all want it to be one way but it's the other way.
y'all want it to be one way but it's the other way.
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jonb
New Member
🗨️ 82
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July 2014
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Isis
Oct 6, 2014 18:36:47 GMT 1
Isis, by jonb on Oct 6, 2014 18:36:47 GMT 1, I see your point, but even if a response is just emotional I think it should be aired, if we are to get to an understanding Agreed, however most, if not all, opinions formed from emotion rather than research and fact, are almost impossible to argue against. In order to have an informed conversation about this subject people should at least have a working knowledge if islam and it's history. I would be surprised if more than a few people on here even know the difference between shia and sunni. They should also have an understanding of the history of the middle east, and the manner in which tribal areas were cobbled together to form countries despite these tribes independance from one another, and hownin kost cases they were forced to become part of a country in which they were a minority, with an often tyrannical military or royalty syetem of rule. That is just to start. to bring israel/palestine into this is silly, because they have nothing to do with Isis, other than the latter using it as a recruitment tool in their propoganda. However, to draw parralels between the radicalization of palestinian youth and followers of isis could be acceptable, despite the fact that palestinians view their fight as one for independance and not one to form a radical islamic state, or if you prefer a caliphate. I agree with the statement that bombs solve nothing, but neither do beheadings. True, discussion does, however before discussig even an emotinal position, one should be well informed. Who on here is? I certain,y am not. S The problem is if we all wash our hands by leaving things up to people that have ALL the facts it soon becomes evident nobody has ALL the facts. Thus we all have to talk each bringing the parts they know or feel they know.
Secondly is the problem that the format for discussion that we often start with is that of sides arguing for one of two sides, as such to say I am against bombing is presumed to equate with a pro beheading stance, is as false as, pro western action is anti Palestinian, which another poster complained of. As one tutored in the visual arts this constant reduction to a line 'you are against me means you are on that side' is what causes so many problems. it would be better to see we are all individuals each able to see the problem from a different perspective. True some positions are more restricted than others, but never the less they are all important.
I see your point, but even if a response is just emotional I think it should be aired, if we are to get to an understanding Agreed, however most, if not all, opinions formed from emotion rather than research and fact, are almost impossible to argue against. In order to have an informed conversation about this subject people should at least have a working knowledge if islam and it's history. I would be surprised if more than a few people on here even know the difference between shia and sunni. They should also have an understanding of the history of the middle east, and the manner in which tribal areas were cobbled together to form countries despite these tribes independance from one another, and hownin kost cases they were forced to become part of a country in which they were a minority, with an often tyrannical military or royalty syetem of rule. That is just to start. to bring israel/palestine into this is silly, because they have nothing to do with Isis, other than the latter using it as a recruitment tool in their propoganda. However, to draw parralels between the radicalization of palestinian youth and followers of isis could be acceptable, despite the fact that palestinians view their fight as one for independance and not one to form a radical islamic state, or if you prefer a caliphate. I agree with the statement that bombs solve nothing, but neither do beheadings. True, discussion does, however before discussig even an emotinal position, one should be well informed. Who on here is? I certain,y am not. S The problem is if we all wash our hands by leaving things up to people that have ALL the facts it soon becomes evident nobody has ALL the facts. Thus we all have to talk each bringing the parts they know or feel they know. Secondly is the problem that the format for discussion that we often start with is that of sides arguing for one of two sides, as such to say I am against bombing is presumed to equate with a pro beheading stance, is as false as, pro western action is anti Palestinian, which another poster complained of. As one tutored in the visual arts this constant reduction to a line 'you are against me means you are on that side' is what causes so many problems. it would be better to see we are all individuals each able to see the problem from a different perspective. True some positions are more restricted than others, but never the less they are all important.
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sgolby
Junior Member
🗨️ 1,890
👍🏻 2,892
November 2012
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Isis
Oct 6, 2014 19:16:36 GMT 1
Isis, by sgolby on Oct 6, 2014 19:16:36 GMT 1, Agreed, however most, if not all, opinions formed from emotion rather than research and fact, are almost impossible to argue against. In order to have an informed conversation about this subject people should at least have a working knowledge if islam and it's history. I would be surprised if more than a few people on here even know the difference between shia and sunni. They should also have an understanding of the history of the middle east, and the manner in which tribal areas were cobbled together to form countries despite these tribes independance from one another, and hownin kost cases they were forced to become part of a country in which they were a minority, with an often tyrannical military or royalty syetem of rule. That is just to start. to bring israel/palestine into this is silly, because they have nothing to do with Isis, other than the latter using it as a recruitment tool in their propoganda. However, to draw parralels between the radicalization of palestinian youth and followers of isis could be acceptable, despite the fact that palestinians view their fight as one for independance and not one to form a radical islamic state, or if you prefer a caliphate. I agree with the statement that bombs solve nothing, but neither do beheadings. True, discussion does, however before discussig even an emotinal position, one should be well informed. Who on here is? I certain,y am not. S The problem is if we all wash our hands by leaving things up to people that have ALL the facts it soon becomes evident nobody has ALL the facts. Thus we all have to talk each bringing the parts they know or feel they know. Secondly is the problem that the format for discussion that we often start with is that of sides arguing for one of two sides, as such to say I am against bombing is presumed to equate with a pro beheading stance, is as false as, pro western action is anti Palestinian, which another poster complained of. As one tutored in the visual arts this constant reduction to a line 'you are against me means you are on that side' is what causes so many problems. it would be better to see we are all individuals each able to see the problem from a different perspective. True some positions are more restricted than others, but never the less they are all important. Correct, however, I find it difficult to have a discussion with someone who has an emotional argument based on little to no fact. I have studied the middle east as a hobby/interest for quite some time, and am almost always disappointed by peoples inability to set their emotion aside and have a discussion, or even an argument based on fact.
You are correct perspective matters, however all to often people assume their perspective is the be all and end all. However if you actually want to disucss what is going on with the world, I would argue that the below questions are where we should start and not from this simplistic statement
"What a clusterfcuk this latest offensive is going to become
Bombs heal complex situations always
Someone will have to remind me who are the good guys and who are the bad, because it's getting fcuking blurry"
1 - How do you fight, or re-educate a group of people who truly believe that death is their salvation, and that this is an absolute fact? (Religious Radicals, I say this because this is not a belief held singularly to Islam... think the rapture...)
2 - How do you make up for decades of economic enslavement, marginalization, and murder? (Not exclusive to the middle east, but all nations across the world except for those small enough and lucky enough to be able to provide a high standard of living for all of it's people)
3 - Once the above two have been addressed, how do you setup a GLOBAL society in which not all people are necessarily equal, but at least have the ability to achieve as much as any other member of society?
To me these are the three starting questions which inevitably will lead to sub discussions and so on which would address the entirety of this matter.
S
Agreed, however most, if not all, opinions formed from emotion rather than research and fact, are almost impossible to argue against. In order to have an informed conversation about this subject people should at least have a working knowledge if islam and it's history. I would be surprised if more than a few people on here even know the difference between shia and sunni. They should also have an understanding of the history of the middle east, and the manner in which tribal areas were cobbled together to form countries despite these tribes independance from one another, and hownin kost cases they were forced to become part of a country in which they were a minority, with an often tyrannical military or royalty syetem of rule. That is just to start. to bring israel/palestine into this is silly, because they have nothing to do with Isis, other than the latter using it as a recruitment tool in their propoganda. However, to draw parralels between the radicalization of palestinian youth and followers of isis could be acceptable, despite the fact that palestinians view their fight as one for independance and not one to form a radical islamic state, or if you prefer a caliphate. I agree with the statement that bombs solve nothing, but neither do beheadings. True, discussion does, however before discussig even an emotinal position, one should be well informed. Who on here is? I certain,y am not. S The problem is if we all wash our hands by leaving things up to people that have ALL the facts it soon becomes evident nobody has ALL the facts. Thus we all have to talk each bringing the parts they know or feel they know. Secondly is the problem that the format for discussion that we often start with is that of sides arguing for one of two sides, as such to say I am against bombing is presumed to equate with a pro beheading stance, is as false as, pro western action is anti Palestinian, which another poster complained of. As one tutored in the visual arts this constant reduction to a line 'you are against me means you are on that side' is what causes so many problems. it would be better to see we are all individuals each able to see the problem from a different perspective. True some positions are more restricted than others, but never the less they are all important. Correct, however, I find it difficult to have a discussion with someone who has an emotional argument based on little to no fact. I have studied the middle east as a hobby/interest for quite some time, and am almost always disappointed by peoples inability to set their emotion aside and have a discussion, or even an argument based on fact. You are correct perspective matters, however all to often people assume their perspective is the be all and end all. However if you actually want to disucss what is going on with the world, I would argue that the below questions are where we should start and not from this simplistic statement "What a clusterfcuk this latest offensive is going to become Bombs heal complex situations always Someone will have to remind me who are the good guys and who are the bad, because it's getting fcuking blurry" 1 - How do you fight, or re-educate a group of people who truly believe that death is their salvation, and that this is an absolute fact? (Religious Radicals, I say this because this is not a belief held singularly to Islam... think the rapture...) 2 - How do you make up for decades of economic enslavement, marginalization, and murder? (Not exclusive to the middle east, but all nations across the world except for those small enough and lucky enough to be able to provide a high standard of living for all of it's people) 3 - Once the above two have been addressed, how do you setup a GLOBAL society in which not all people are necessarily equal, but at least have the ability to achieve as much as any other member of society? To me these are the three starting questions which inevitably will lead to sub discussions and so on which would address the entirety of this matter. S
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spirit
Junior Member
🗨️ 2,956
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August 2007
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Isis
Oct 6, 2014 21:26:34 GMT 1
Isis, by spirit on Oct 6, 2014 21:26:34 GMT 1, 1 - How do you fight, or re-educate a group of people who truly believe that death is their salvation, and that this is an absolute fact? (Religious Radicals, I say this because this is not a belief held singularly to Islam... think the rapture...) 2 - How do you make up for decades of economic enslavement, marginalization, and murder? (Not exclusive to the middle east, but all nations across the world except for those small enough and lucky enough to be able to provide a high standard of living for all of it's people) 3 - Once the above two have been addressed, how do you setup a GLOBAL society in which not all people are necessarily equal, but at least have the ability to achieve as much as any other member of society? To me these are the three starting questions which inevitably will lead to sub discussions and so on which would address the entirety of this matter.
1. You can't re-educate that kind of twisted belief. Therefore only answer is to kill them if they threaten you. You do need to try to stop the next generation thinking like that.
2. You can't really. However poverty does not necessarily breed violence.
3. Some people don't want a global society and many of those that do, do not have altruistic reasons for wanting one.
My view is that these questions (apart from 1) are not really central to the issue.
1 - How do you fight, or re-educate a group of people who truly believe that death is their salvation, and that this is an absolute fact? (Religious Radicals, I say this because this is not a belief held singularly to Islam... think the rapture...) 2 - How do you make up for decades of economic enslavement, marginalization, and murder? (Not exclusive to the middle east, but all nations across the world except for those small enough and lucky enough to be able to provide a high standard of living for all of it's people) 3 - Once the above two have been addressed, how do you setup a GLOBAL society in which not all people are necessarily equal, but at least have the ability to achieve as much as any other member of society? To me these are the three starting questions which inevitably will lead to sub discussions and so on which would address the entirety of this matter. 1. You can't re-educate that kind of twisted belief. Therefore only answer is to kill them if they threaten you. You do need to try to stop the next generation thinking like that. 2. You can't really. However poverty does not necessarily breed violence. 3. Some people don't want a global society and many of those that do, do not have altruistic reasons for wanting one. My view is that these questions (apart from 1) are not really central to the issue.
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