met
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June 2009
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THE MET LOTTERY, by met on Dec 16, 2021 23:23:53 GMT 1, Psychologists Nick Davis and Emma Barratt discovered that whispering was an effective trigger for 75% of the 475 subjects who took part in an experiment to investigate the nature of ASMR*; this statistic is reflected in the popularity of intentional ASMR videos that comprise someone speaking in a whispered voice.
Real Housewives ASMR: Kim Richards vs. Eileen Davidson and Lisa Rinna in Amsterdam - uploaded by T. Kyle
__________
Narcissists and #SOCIALMEDIA III - uploaded by joeybtoonz
Narcissists and #SOCIALMEDIA VI - uploaded by joeybtoonz
Best of Narcissists and #SOCIALMEDIA - uploaded by joeybtoonz
Psychologists Nick Davis and Emma Barratt discovered that whispering was an effective trigger for 75% of the 475 subjects who took part in an experiment to investigate the nature of ASMR*; this statistic is reflected in the popularity of intentional ASMR videos that comprise someone speaking in a whispered voice.Real Housewives ASMR: Kim Richards vs. Eileen Davidson and Lisa Rinna in Amsterdam- uploaded by T. Kyle__________ Narcissists and #SOCIALMEDIA III- uploaded by joeybtoonzNarcissists and #SOCIALMEDIA VI- uploaded by joeybtoonzBest of Narcissists and #SOCIALMEDIA- uploaded by joeybtoonz
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met
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June 2009
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Harland Miller โข Narcissist Seeks Similar, by met on Dec 16, 2021 21:42:17 GMT 1,
And the penguin book covers featuring that awful font also look crap. My opinion however it seems to be an option shared by pretty much everyone I show this to, so in that sense this will never be a classic Harland. No doubt it will still sellout way before we get a sniff but for me this is his weakest Penguin cover (feat the penguin) print to date. All good and fine. And here we're just discussing differences in aesthetic preferences. The main issue I tried to address earlier was the (possible) suggestion that Miller's choice of typeface was simply random โ rather than it having been a considered reference to Penguin's history. I was aware of the typeface on the books but I still think it feels added last minute on the painting. On the examples you posted itโs smaller and with more illustrations below I feel it sits better. Itโs still a very nice piece but to my eye the typeface above looks off.
Cheers for the follow-up with clarification.
Disagreements over art, even when minor, are far more interesting than shared likings. They push me to reconsider and reassess. And sometimes that can happily lead to my opinions becoming more nuanced. Or even to a complete change of heart.
Our views happen to differ regarding the text for A Penguin Special, since it doesn't feel like a last-minute add-on to me.
I do however take your point regarding size. Indeed, if art directing this piece, I would probably have made the letters slightly smaller myself. But at the same time, I don't really mind the exaggerated scale. Likewise, I'm comfortable with the penguin also having been enhanced and made bigger for artistic effect. And, for me, the muted cream colour of the text serves to offset its size.
Harland Miller's intent of course is just to refer to Penguin books (or to our loose memories thereof), rather than faithfully replicate them and create facsimiles. Thankfully, he allows himself plenty of room for twists, distortion and reimagining โ whether this be with the choice of titles, the unrestricted palette of colours, his use of varying textures, or other aesthetic flourishes like occasional drips and splatters. The series can be seen as both homages to, and subversions of, Penguin books.
One of my favourites:
__________
I would suggest that the sickly-Valentine, garish pink of Narcissist Seeks Similar perfectly complements the artwork's title โ itself drafted to parody the heading of an advertisement in a lonely hearts column.
And this title appeals to me greatly. It is such a depressingly topical subject matter. The rise of narcissism โ and of narcissism as a social currency, especially in the West โ is as strangely fascinating as it is obscene. Greatly enabled by social media. Symptomised in large part by contemporary phenomena, including online-persona curation, victimhood / grievance culture, and virtue signalling.
[Consider our Afghan brothers and sisters we recently betrayed and abandoned to the Taliban. Consider as well the circumstances of and exceptional sacrifices made by the likes of Alexei Navalny in Russia, Sergei Tikhanovsky in Belarus, Ruhollah Zam (executed one year ago) in Iran, or Jimmy Lai in Hong Kong.
Now look at the individuals who tend to get the most followers and likes on platforms such as Instagram and Twitter. From what I can gather, it quite often seems to be those who've adopted the Kim Kardashian approach of me, me, me โ where taking too many selfies is conceptually impossible. Or shriekers who equate being mis-pronouned (even if it's unintentional) as an act of violence against them and an existential threat.]
And the penguin book covers featuring that awful font also look crap. My opinion however it seems to be an option shared by pretty much everyone I show this to, so in that sense this will never be a classic Harland. No doubt it will still sellout way before we get a sniff but for me this is his weakest Penguin cover (feat the penguin) print to date. All good and fine. And here we're just discussing differences in aesthetic preferences. The main issue I tried to address earlier was the (possible) suggestion that Miller's choice of typeface was simply random โ rather than it having been a considered reference to Penguin's history. I was aware of the typeface on the books but I still think it feels added last minute on the painting. On the examples you posted itโs smaller and with more illustrations below I feel it sits better. Itโs still a very nice piece but to my eye the typeface above looks off. Cheers for the follow-up with clarification. Disagreements over art, even when minor, are far more interesting than shared likings. They push me to reconsider and reassess. And sometimes that can happily lead to my opinions becoming more nuanced. Or even to a complete change of heart. Our views happen to differ regarding the text for A Penguin Special, since it doesn't feel like a last-minute add-on to me. I do however take your point regarding size. Indeed, if art directing this piece, I would probably have made the letters slightly smaller myself. But at the same time, I don't really mind the exaggerated scale. Likewise, I'm comfortable with the penguin also having been enhanced and made bigger for artistic effect. And, for me, the muted cream colour of the text serves to offset its size. Harland Miller's intent of course is just to refer to Penguin books (or to our loose memories thereof), rather than faithfully replicate them and create facsimiles. Thankfully, he allows himself plenty of room for twists, distortion and reimagining โ whether this be with the choice of titles, the unrestricted palette of colours, his use of varying textures, or other aesthetic flourishes like occasional drips and splatters. The series can be seen as both homages to, and subversions of, Penguin books. One of my favourites: __________ I would suggest that the sickly-Valentine, garish pink of Narcissist Seeks Similar perfectly complements the artwork's title โ itself drafted to parody the heading of an advertisement in a lonely hearts column. And this title appeals to me greatly. It is such a depressingly topical subject matter. The rise of narcissism โ and of narcissism as a social currency, especially in the West โ is as strangely fascinating as it is obscene. Greatly enabled by social media. Symptomised in large part by contemporary phenomena, including online-persona curation, victimhood / grievance culture, and virtue signalling. [Consider our Afghan brothers and sisters we recently betrayed and abandoned to the Taliban. Consider as well the circumstances of and exceptional sacrifices made by the likes of Alexei Navalny in Russia, Sergei Tikhanovsky in Belarus, Ruhollah Zam (executed one year ago) in Iran, or Jimmy Lai in Hong Kong.
Now look at the individuals who tend to get the most followers and likes on platforms such as Instagram and Twitter. From what I can gather, it quite often seems to be those who've adopted the Kim Kardashian approach of me, me, me โ where taking too many selfies is conceptually impossible. Or shriekers who equate being mis-pronouned (even if it's unintentional) as an act of violence against them and an existential threat.]
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met
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June 2009
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The Best Film Ever, by met on Dec 13, 2021 16:47:17 GMT 1, In Bruges is a really really funny film. Also recommended. In Bruges is somewhat of a hidden gem. An often-overlooked aspect is the makeup artistry (or wizardry) showcased in this film. Don Logan is almost unrecognisable in his excellent supporting role as Harry Waters.
The video essay below may be of interest to fans of In Bruges.
In Bruges: Morality In Dialogue - uploaded by Nerdwriter1
In Bruges is a really really funny film. Also recommended. In Bruges is somewhat of a hidden gem. An often-overlooked aspect is the makeup artistry (or wizardry) showcased in this film. Don Logan is almost unrecognisable in his excellent supporting role as Harry Waters. The video essay below may be of interest to fans of In Bruges. In Bruges: Morality In Dialogue- uploaded by Nerdwriter1
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met
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June 2009
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llame'kuf art during lock down, by met on Dec 13, 2021 16:28:50 GMT 1, Happy Christmas - our front room. LS Lowry, Van Donna & Banksy + other bits
Happy Christmas to you as well, and many thanks for the game.
1. A couple of Banksys are easily recognisable.
2. Likewise (to the left of the tree) with the Van Donna, whose work I happen to strongly dislike. But not as much as I detest the dodgy marketing tactics of her dealer, Walton Fine Arts โ carpetbaggers and ex-carpet salesmen who, unsurprisingly, also sell works by Bambi and Pegasus.
3. A real interest for me was the Lowry, because of the greater challenge it presented.
I spy with my little eye the former Mount Zion Methodist Church (now Clitheroe Mosque) in Clitheroe, Lancashire:
Happy Christmas - our front room. LS Lowry, Van Donna & Banksy + other bits
Happy Christmas to you as well, and many thanks for the game. 1. A couple of Banksys are easily recognisable. 2. Likewise (to the left of the tree) with the Van Donna, whose work I happen to strongly dislike. But not as much as I detest the dodgy marketing tactics of her dealer, Walton Fine Arts โ carpetbaggers and ex-carpet salesmen who, unsurprisingly, also sell works by Bambi and Pegasus. 3. A real interest for me was the Lowry, because of the greater challenge it presented. I spy with my little eye the former Mount Zion Methodist Church (now Clitheroe Mosque) in Clitheroe, Lancashire:
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met
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June 2009
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Show us Your own Artwork ๐จ, by met on Dec 13, 2021 15:40:32 GMT 1, If asked to guess, I would venture that you are a fan of Niki de Saint Phalle. [And perhaps also Miro, Dalรญ, and Kandinsky.] Your right, although Niki de Saint Phalle is new to me, need to tap into her works more. I used to love to listen to music and doodle away and get them thoughts onto paper.
Regarding Niki de Saint Phalle*, there follows the type of works on paper that your images reminded me of:
I am a fan especially of De Saint Phalle's playful sculptures, like the kinetic ones below at the Stravinsky Fountain in Paris (immediately south of the Pompidou Centre) โ a collaborative effort with her husband and fellow artist, Jean Tinguely:
Videos of her performative Tirs / Shootings series from the early 1960s are also worth checking out, along with the end results.
My possibly-false assumption is that they influenced Charming Baker (a former student and lecturer at Central Saint Martins) when he created some of his own artworks โ like A Conversation Piece* and Love Is Never Thinking It Might End Before We Do*.
I suspect warboutique is also familiar with this period of De Saint Phalle's artistic career.
If asked to guess, I would venture that you are a fan of Niki de Saint Phalle. [And perhaps also Miro, Dalรญ, and Kandinsky.] Your right, although Niki de Saint Phalle is new to me, need to tap into her works more. I used to love to listen to music and doodle away and get them thoughts onto paper. Regarding Niki de Saint Phalle*, there follows the type of works on paper that your images reminded me of: I am a fan especially of De Saint Phalle's playful sculptures, like the kinetic ones below at the Stravinsky Fountain in Paris (immediately south of the Pompidou Centre) โ a collaborative effort with her husband and fellow artist, Jean Tinguely: Videos of her performative Tirs / Shootings series from the early 1960s are also worth checking out, along with the end results. My possibly-false assumption is that they influenced Charming Baker (a former student and lecturer at Central Saint Martins) when he created some of his own artworks โ like A Conversation Piece* and Love Is Never Thinking It Might End Before We Do*. I suspect warboutique is also familiar with this period of De Saint Phalle's artistic career.
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met
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June 2009
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Harland Miller โข Narcissist Seeks Similar, by met on Dec 9, 2021 23:54:22 GMT 1, And the penguin book covers featuring that awful font also look crap. My opinion however it seems to be an option shared by pretty much everyone I show this to, so in that sense this will never be a classic Harland. No doubt it will still sellout way before we get a sniff but for me this is his weakest Penguin cover (feat the penguin) print to date.
All good and fine. And here we're just discussing differences in aesthetic preferences.
The main issue I tried to address earlier was the (possible) suggestion that Miller's choice of typeface was simply random โ rather than it having been a considered reference to Penguin's history.
And the penguin book covers featuring that awful font also look crap. My opinion however it seems to be an option shared by pretty much everyone I show this to, so in that sense this will never be a classic Harland. No doubt it will still sellout way before we get a sniff but for me this is his weakest Penguin cover (feat the penguin) print to date. All good and fine. And here we're just discussing differences in aesthetic preferences. The main issue I tried to address earlier was the (possible) suggestion that Miller's choice of typeface was simply random โ rather than it having been a considered reference to Penguin's history.
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met
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June 2009
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Show us Your own Artwork ๐จ, by met on Dec 9, 2021 23:39:14 GMT 1,
If asked to guess, I would venture that you are a fan of Niki de Saint Phalle.
[And perhaps also Miro, Dalรญ, and Kandinsky.]
If asked to guess, I would venture that you are a fan of Niki de Saint Phalle. [And perhaps also Miro, Dalรญ, and Kandinsky.]
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met
Junior Member
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June 2009
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Harland Miller โข Narcissist Seeks Similar, by met on Dec 9, 2021 22:53:29 GMT 1,
Harland Miller Narcissist Seeks Similar Etching with relief printing Edition of 50 Sheet size 102.5 x 68.5 cm (40 3/8 x 27 in) Signed by the artist on the front, numbered on the reverse Published by Manifold Editions, 2021 Inquiries to: info@manifoldeditions.com
Yawn, would have been excited 5 years ago. Itโs not good heโs moving in on the Connor Brothers territory.
I would respectfully disagree regarding who has legitimate claim to the territory of book-cover depictions.
One the one hand, we have a fine artist โ who is also a published author โ revisiting as well as expanding upon:
(i) the subject matter most relevant to him (books, book titles, book covers); (ii) an aesthetic he actually pioneered; and (iii) the pithy, mordant humour he happens to be best known for.
On the other hand, we have parasite chancers, whose output is almost exclusively based on ripping off the ideas and artwork of other people.
The โA penguin specialโ part at the top looks terrible in my opinion. The font seems out of place, looks as if it was a afterthought.
The โA penguin specialโ font is rough. Why Harland, whyyy??
This piece looks great to my eyes. And I consider the title quite brilliant.
No issue either with the typeface of the text, A Penguin Special.
In case any members are unaware, that typeface is the same as what Penguin used for some of its releases. See below for a couple of examples, from 1949 (left) and 1957 (right):
Harland Miller Narcissist Seeks Similar Etching with relief printing Edition of 50 Sheet size 102.5 x 68.5 cm (40 3/8 x 27 in) Signed by the artist on the front, numbered on the reverse Published by Manifold Editions, 2021 Inquiries to: info@manifoldeditions.com Yawn, would have been excited 5 years ago. Itโs not good heโs moving in on the Connor Brothers territory.I would respectfully disagree regarding who has legitimate claim to the territory of book-cover depictions. One the one hand, we have a fine artist โ who is also a published author โ revisiting as well as expanding upon: (i) the subject matter most relevant to him (books, book titles, book covers); (ii) an aesthetic he actually pioneered; and (iii) the pithy, mordant humour he happens to be best known for. On the other hand, we have parasite chancers, whose output is almost exclusively based on ripping off the ideas and artwork of other people. The โA penguin specialโ part at the top looks terrible in my opinion. The font seems out of place, looks as if it was a afterthought. The โA penguin specialโ font is rough. Why Harland, whyyy??
This piece looks great to my eyes. And I consider the title quite brilliant. No issue either with the typeface of the text, A Penguin Special. In case any members are unaware, that typeface is the same as what Penguin used for some of its releases. See below for a couple of examples, from 1949 (left) and 1957 (right):
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met
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The Best Film Ever, by met on Dec 7, 2021 0:22:25 GMT 1, Just watched this โSound of Metalโ on Amazon Prime and itโs deserving of its plaudits. Iโm a big fan of Riz Ahmed and really hope he does get the Oscar success heโs being tipped for.
Thank you for the recommendation.
I watched Sound of Metal a couple of months ago, during a 30-day free-trial period for Amazon Prime. Waited until about Day 27 to see it, because the storyline was so easily-imaginable and terrifying to me. Akin to being a fine artist, or just an art collector, and then one day waking up blind.
For me, the opening scene was memorably excellent โ especially when paired with the film's even-stronger and contrasting final scene.
Great performance by Riz Ahmed, as well as by Olivia Cooke. Minor role for Mathieu Amalric, whom I first discovered and appreciated in Munich. Brief cameo by three members of Surfbort (including Dani Miller) in case that band has any enthusiasts here.
Just watched this โSound of Metalโ on Amazon Prime and itโs deserving of its plaudits. Iโm a big fan of Riz Ahmed and really hope he does get the Oscar success heโs being tipped for. Thank you for the recommendation. I watched Sound of Metal a couple of months ago, during a 30-day free-trial period for Amazon Prime. Waited until about Day 27 to see it, because the storyline was so easily-imaginable and terrifying to me. Akin to being a fine artist, or just an art collector, and then one day waking up blind. For me, the opening scene was memorably excellent โ especially when paired with the film's even-stronger and contrasting final scene. Great performance by Riz Ahmed, as well as by Olivia Cooke. Minor role for Mathieu Amalric, whom I first discovered and appreciated in Munich. Brief cameo by three members of Surfbort (including Dani Miller) in case that band has any enthusiasts here.
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met
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June 2009
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Invader RVE Repetition Variation Evolution Print, by met on Dec 6, 2021 22:20:53 GMT 1, Thanks to everyone that constructively comments on pricing. While it can be annoying - for both seller or buyer - I find discussions like this here to be very helpful. Oftentimes it is not easy to determine value especially when no differentiation is made between the supposed market value and the subjective value. โI would let it go for xโ is very different from โthis currently goes for xโ
Good post.
As a rule of thumb, I tend to be wary of anyone who:
(i) tries to shut down or discourage good-faith, free exchanges of viewpoints about pricing (cf. the "If you don't like the price, just move on"-type of comments we often see on sale threads); and/or
(ii) comes across as defensive in response to a valuation that opposes their own (especially when the opposing valuation has been calculated on the basis of referenced, verifiable and comparable past sales).
Members who fall within either or both of these categories seem most concerned about maintaining information asymmetry, to better protect their vested interests โ at the expense of openness and transparency on the forum.
My own affinity lies instead with fellow truth-seekers like yourself. There are many of us here, and the system of priorities we share is arguably quite different.
Thanks to everyone that constructively comments on pricing. While it can be annoying - for both seller or buyer - I find discussions like this here to be very helpful. Oftentimes it is not easy to determine value especially when no differentiation is made between the supposed market value and the subjective value. โI would let it go for xโ is very different from โthis currently goes for xโ Good post. As a rule of thumb, I tend to be wary of anyone who: (i) tries to shut down or discourage good-faith, free exchanges of viewpoints about pricing (cf. the "If you don't like the price, just move on"-type of comments we often see on sale threads); and/or (ii) comes across as defensive in response to a valuation that opposes their own (especially when the opposing valuation has been calculated on the basis of referenced, verifiable and comparable past sales). Members who fall within either or both of these categories seem most concerned about maintaining information asymmetry, to better protect their vested interests โ at the expense of openness and transparency on the forum. My own affinity lies instead with fellow truth-seekers like yourself. There are many of us here, and the system of priorities we share is arguably quite different.
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met
Junior Member
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June 2009
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UV Protection Glass โข Museum Glass, by met on Dec 6, 2021 20:11:52 GMT 1, Presumably, even with Museum Glass we shouldn't hang things in direct sunlight. But I have question, which is, if I were to have prints framed behind museum glass AND the UV layer stuff you can get for your windows, could I then consider doing so? Got a wall in my home office that is empty because it gets some harsh sunlight at the moment, but would love to get a piece/pieces up on that wall! (Shutters/blinds could help too of course, but that's not getting done until I get some other refurbishments done.)
With respect to light-sensitive pieces in your collection, the following should be seen as conflicting interests:
1. Being able to actually view, enjoy and fully experience the art, including by hanging it.
2. The long-term preservation of the art, including its protection from light damage.
Although collectors typically want 1 and 2, it isn't possible to perfectly satisfy both. Some tradeoff is always necessary. And it's up to each of us to discover the right balance โ to find the compromise position most suited to our individual needs.
__________
On the subject of light damage, a common misconception is that one's focus should rest solely on UV light.
This ignorance is understandable, because it's so rare for glazing suppliers or framers to specifically address other types of light. And while UV is the most damaging, all light can be harmful to works of art, especially those on paper.
In my book, anti-UV glazing is very much a worthwhile investment. But even premium products that block up to 99% of UV rays (e.g. Tru Vue Optium Museum Acrylic) will offer no protection against damage caused by visible light.
I've commented on the issue a few times in the past. Two of those occasions are linked below for reference and additional information:
* - 21 December 2018 - Window treatments thread.
* - 30 August 2020 - Banksyโข Thrower print, Gross Domestic Productโข thread.
Presumably, even with Museum Glass we shouldn't hang things in direct sunlight. But I have question, which is, if I were to have prints framed behind museum glass AND the UV layer stuff you can get for your windows, could I then consider doing so? Got a wall in my home office that is empty because it gets some harsh sunlight at the moment, but would love to get a piece/pieces up on that wall! (Shutters/blinds could help too of course, but that's not getting done until I get some other refurbishments done.) With respect to light-sensitive pieces in your collection, the following should be seen as conflicting interests: 1. Being able to actually view, enjoy and fully experience the art, including by hanging it. 2. The long-term preservation of the art, including its protection from light damage. Although collectors typically want 1 and 2, it isn't possible to perfectly satisfy both. Some tradeoff is always necessary. And it's up to each of us to discover the right balance โ to find the compromise position most suited to our individual needs. __________ On the subject of light damage, a common misconception is that one's focus should rest solely on UV light. This ignorance is understandable, because it's so rare for glazing suppliers or framers to specifically address other types of light. And while UV is the most damaging, all light can be harmful to works of art, especially those on paper. In my book, anti-UV glazing is very much a worthwhile investment. But even premium products that block up to 99% of UV rays (e.g. Tru Vue Optium Museum Acrylic) will offer no protection against damage caused by visible light. I've commented on the issue a few times in the past. Two of those occasions are linked below for reference and additional information: * - 21 December 2018 - Window treatments thread. * - 30 August 2020 - Banksyโข Thrower print, Gross Domestic Productโข thread.
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met
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Show everyone your latest Art Purchase?, by met on Dec 4, 2021 23:59:32 GMT 1, Have had these for a while, but finally got around to frame them. [...] Johnny Abrahams maxamaxa2Your "broken flail piece" was touched on two years ago in a separate Johnny Abrahams thread *. It looks to me like a Julie Nelson* ceramic. For my own continuing education, I'd be grateful for confirmation as to whether that's correct. They were quite similar but actually made by Julia Schiller Harvey and are raku-burnt. Instagram: instagram.com/jschillerharvey?utm_medium=copy_linkHave two of them
Sorry about my late acknowledgement, and thank you for the informative reply.
After first viewing your close-up photo, I wrongly assumed the crazing was due to crackle-glaze having been used.
It's only after looking up Raku, and watching a couple of videos today on Western raku techniques, that I realised the crazing on your pieces was achieved by the post-firing smoking process.
Have had these for a while, but finally got around to frame them. [...] Johnny Abrahams maxamaxa2Your "broken flail piece" was touched on two years ago in a separate Johnny Abrahams thread *. It looks to me like a Julie Nelson* ceramic. For my own continuing education, I'd be grateful for confirmation as to whether that's correct. They were quite similar but actually made by Julia Schiller Harvey and are raku-burnt. Instagram: instagram.com/jschillerharvey?utm_medium=copy_linkHave two of them Sorry about my late acknowledgement, and thank you for the informative reply. After first viewing your close-up photo, I wrongly assumed the crazing was due to crackle-glaze having been used. It's only after looking up Raku, and watching a couple of videos today on Western raku techniques, that I realised the crazing on your pieces was achieved by the post-firing smoking process.
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met
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June 2009
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Secret Santa , by met on Nov 30, 2021 23:49:08 GMT 1, I have received mine. Better get the tree up!
I have a whole pack of extra trees in a kitchen drawer.
In case you need one of my spares, just let me know and I'll post it to you tomorrow.
I have received mine. Better get the tree up! I have a whole pack of extra trees in a kitchen drawer. In case you need one of my spares, just let me know and I'll post it to you tomorrow.
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met
Junior Member
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June 2009
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Paul insect Over rated or not ?, by met on Nov 30, 2021 23:35:40 GMT 1, it appears to me that Paul's portraits have in some way been inspired by Leigh Bowery, I heard his name when was reading about Massive Attack's classic hit song 'Unfinished Sympathy' that he was the art director when they filmed the video for the track in LA. on further googling this comparison has been made before but I found it quite interesting as I'd not heard of him before. I had not seen this before you pointed it out. I see it now though so thanks for pointing it out.
Leigh Bowery was very influential is many areas. Once you know his name you will be surprised in how many places his name comes up. I first heard about him when reading about NYC clubbing in the 90's. He influenced nightclubs, their entertainment and fashions. He also influenced Madonna, Boy George, Alexander McQueen, Gaultier and many others. Elements from his costumes still pop up in a lot of fashion today. He was also a muse for Freud. I recall a good few years ago that a well known member on this forum had the Bowery lightbulbs ears image as his avatar. The same image that could have influenced Paul Insect.
We can certainly draw parallels between Leigh Bowery and Paul Insect's current artistic style.
But I've no clue about whether Bowery was actually an inspiration to Insect, because the similarities may also be coincidental.
__________
Hopefully, many here already know of Leigh Bowery. If anybody doesn't, I would encourage them to put in the time and do some research into this iconic figure.
Regardless of their opinions of Bowery, viewers familiar with his body of work are in stronger positions to identify the influences he had on others in a variety of fields (photography, fashion, performance art, advertising, design, music videos, the nightclub and fetish scenes, etc.).
Conversely, those who lack Bowery as a reference point are placing themselves at a comparative disadvantage โ being less-well-equipped to understand the hows and whys of what followed, including in popular culture.
Additional Google search terms: "Club Kids" and the chronologically-preceding "Blitz Kids".
Depending on one's perspective, the above individuals are celebrations of creative imagination, theatricality, flamboyant exhibitionism, hedonism, decadence, and/or navel-gazing narcissism.
it appears to me that Paul's portraits have in some way been inspired by Leigh Bowery, I heard his name when was reading about Massive Attack's classic hit song 'Unfinished Sympathy' that he was the art director when they filmed the video for the track in LA. on further googling this comparison has been made before but I found it quite interesting as I'd not heard of him before. I had not seen this before you pointed it out. I see it now though so thanks for pointing it out.
Leigh Bowery was very influential is many areas. Once you know his name you will be surprised in how many places his name comes up. I first heard about him when reading about NYC clubbing in the 90's. He influenced nightclubs, their entertainment and fashions. He also influenced Madonna, Boy George, Alexander McQueen, Gaultier and many others. Elements from his costumes still pop up in a lot of fashion today. He was also a muse for Freud. I recall a good few years ago that a well known member on this forum had the Bowery lightbulbs ears image as his avatar. The same image that could have influenced Paul Insect. We can certainly draw parallels between Leigh Bowery and Paul Insect's current artistic style. But I've no clue about whether Bowery was actually an inspiration to In sect, because the similarities may also be coincidental. __________ Hopefully, many here already know of Leigh Bowery. If anybody doesn't, I would encourage them to put in the time and do some research into this iconic figure. Regardless of their opinions of Bowery, viewers familiar with his body of work are in stronger positions to identify the influences he had on others in a variety of fields (photography, fashion, performance art, advertising, design, music videos, the nightclub and fetish scenes, etc.). Conversely, those who lack Bowery as a reference point are placing themselves at a comparative disadvantage โ being less-well-equipped to understand the hows and whys of what followed, including in popular culture. Additional Google search terms: "Club Kids" and the chronologically-preceding "Blitz Kids". Depending on one's perspective, the above individuals are celebrations of creative imagination, theatricality, flamboyant exhibitionism, hedonism, decadence, and/or navel-gazing narcissism.
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,782
Likes โข 6,706
June 2009
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Keith Haring Artwork, VALUATION, by met on Nov 28, 2021 22:18:25 GMT 1, Been offered a haring baby drawing from someone who met keith on the streets of nyc in the 88. Thoughts on a fair price Been offered a haring baby drawing from someone who met keith on the streets of nyc in the 88. Thoughts on a fair price Anyone?Been offered a haring baby drawing from someone who met keith on the streets of nyc in the 88. Thoughts on a fair price Iโd steer clear of any original works not obtained through Martin Lawrence Gallery. IMO I am certain it is legit. So working under that assumption anybody have a fair price?
Your question cannot be properly considered in isolation, or directly replied to โ because the answer would first require knowing additional details, which have thus far been left undisclosed.
In addition, I would posit that you are working under the wrong assumption.
__________
As a quick preface, the focus of this post excludes safer-bet items like Keith Haring's widely-recognised limited editions, and works previously given the nod by the Keith Haring Foundation's authentication committee before it was dissolved in 2012.
__________
For collectors of genuine artworks, the Haring market is exceptionally high-risk due to a massive prevalence of fakes. And "massive" is no overstatement. The counterfeiting industry with Haring has long been fuelled by his unremitting popularity, his art-world status, the resulting great demand for his works, and therefore the high prices they command.
Great demand and high prices tick the Motive box. Not just for counterfeiters, but for their art-world enablers and facilitators too โ the corrupt sellers and resellers, whether they be collector-individuals or institutions, dealers, gallerists, or auction-house staff.
Moreover, with:
(i) his cartoon style being so deliberately basic, i.e. easy to replicate; and
(ii) his preferred art materials (acrylic, chalk, marker, pen and pencil) being so readily accessible, familiar, and simple to master,
Keith Haring could well be the most faked artist on the planet. He is a regular favourite of professional fraudsters, as well as hordes of amateur opportunistic ones.
Easily-copied style and readily-accessible art materials tick both the Means and Opportunity boxes, for just about the entire population.
To illustrate, if given 72 hours to practice the requisite arm and hand-flow techniques, execution speed, and application pressure, I am confident that I myself could produce signed fakes convincing enough to dupe a frightening number of Keith Haring collectors, let alone novice Haring enthusiasts.
In fact, 10-year-old schoolchildren in art class might also achieve reasonable success with this exercise.
And based on years-long, casual but regular observations of the market, my completely unscientific assessment would be that less than 1% of unauthenticated purported Harings which come up for sale on various platforms are actually genuine.
Show me, for example, an auction house that repeatedly sells unauthenticated Harings, and I'll show you one where it's a near-certainty the directors, specialists, or other decision-makers are corrupt scumbags. They will have made the conscious decision to turn a blind eye, prioritise profits over probity, and defraud the more ignorant among their own buyer-clients.
Either that, or those decision-makers are seriously incompetent and naive, but to a degree that is truly incredible. A degree that stretches credulity. In other words, if such auction-house professionals really do exist, then they must surely fall within the hyper-exclusive target market of fight attendants who tell us how to put on our seatbelts.
__________
This was a longwinded way of saying that, for an unauthenticated Haring, there can be no guesstimate as to what constitutes a "fair price" without first evaluating the strength of the seller's evidence in support of authenticity and provenance.
If there is, say, accompanying video footage or a photograph of Haring actually drawing the work, or taken immediately afterwards (e.g. showing Haring and the seller holding up the drawing), then things do become interesting.
Perhaps less-strong but still-compelling evidence could in some cases include the seller having a verifiably-documented professional or personal relationship with Haring.
Provided this evidentiary prerequisite has been satisfied, other factors relating to the work can then be considered, including:
(i) whether or not signed and dated;
(ii) size (e.g. small doodle vs larger drawing on US Letter-sized paper);
(iii) specific medium (e.g. ballpoint pen vs thin marker vs wide chisel-tip marker);
(iv) historical or other interest that the substrate may hold (e.g. a drawing on a gallery show card, receipt, restaurant napkin, dollar bill, etc. โ especially if the substrate has some connection with the artist, and/or the location where or timeframe when the drawing was purportedly created);
(v) quality of the drawing, its visual appeal, and the apparent care taken during its execution; and
(vi) condition of the drawing.
However, in absence of any objectively-persuasive evidence of authenticity and provenance being offered by the seller (as I suspect is the case in your situation), for the reasons expressed above, I would value the drawing at $0.00. Or possibly a negative sum, given the opportunity costs involved in taking the time to consider the purchase.
__________
Regarding your certainty that the drawing is legitimate, that could well influence its personal value to you, and the price you might be willing to pay. Sentimental factors may increase that price level too. For example, if the seller happens to be a family member or an old friend of yours.
But none of this has significant relevance to the drawing's market value โ which is what you appear to be asking for guidance on.
Market value is just another term for resale value. And you knowing that an artwork is genuine matters little, unless you can also prove it (on the balance of probabilities, if not beyond a reasonable doubt) to the next buyer down the chain.
Without credible evidence, your pool of future potential buyers would pretty much be restricted to:
(a) the tragically ignorant or stupid (in other words, the kind of vulnerable collectors each of us has the choice of either exploiting or not); and
(b) anyone who, rather amazingly, is privy to documents or other information supporting authenticity and provenance, which not even your seller currently has access to.
Been offered a haring baby drawing from someone who met keith on the streets of nyc in the 88. Thoughts on a fair price Been offered a haring baby drawing from someone who met keith on the streets of nyc in the 88. Thoughts on a fair price Anyone?Been offered a haring baby drawing from someone who met keith on the streets of nyc in the 88. Thoughts on a fair price Iโd steer clear of any original works not obtained through Martin Lawrence Gallery. IMO I am certain it is legit. So working under that assumption anybody have a fair price? Your question cannot be properly considered in isolation, or directly replied to โ because the answer would first require knowing additional details, which have thus far been left undisclosed. In addition, I would posit that you are working under the wrong assumption. __________ As a quick preface, the focus of this post excludes safer-bet items like Keith Haring's widely-recognised limited editions, and works previously given the nod by the Keith Har ing Foundation's authentication committee before it was dissolved in 2012. __________ For collectors of genuine artworks, the Haring market is exceptionally high-risk due to a massive prevalence of fakes. And "massive" is no overstatement. The counterfeiting industry with Har ing has long been fuelled by his unremitting popularity, his art-world status, the resulting great demand for his works, and therefore the high prices they command. Great demand and high prices tick the Motive box. Not just for counterfeiters, but for their art-world enablers and facilitators too โ the corrupt sellers and resellers, whether they be collector-individuals or institutions, dealers, gallerists, or auction-house staff. Moreover, with: (i) his cartoon style being so deliberately basic, i.e. easy to replicate; and (ii) his preferred art materials (acrylic, chalk, marker, pen and pencil) being so readily accessible, familiar, and simple to master, Keith Har ing could well be the most faked artist on the planet. He is a regular favourite of professional fraudsters, as well as hordes of amateur opportunistic ones. Easily-copied style and readily-accessible art materials tick both the Means and Opportunity boxes, for just about the entire population. To illustrate, if given 72 hours to practice the requisite arm and hand-flow techniques, execution speed, and application pressure, I am confident that I myself could produce signed fakes convincing enough to dupe a frightening number of Keith Har ing collectors, let alone novice Har ing enthusiasts. In fact, 10-year-old schoolchildren in art class might also achieve reasonable success with this exercise. And based on years-long, casual but regular observations of the market, my completely unscientific assessment would be that less than 1% of unauthenticated purported Har ings which come up for sale on various platforms are actually genuine. Show me, for example, an auction house that repeatedly sells unauthenticated Har ings, and I'll show you one where it's a near-certainty the directors, specialists, or other decision-makers are corrupt scumbags. They will have made the conscious decision to turn a blind eye, prioritise profits over probity, and defraud the more ignorant among their own buyer-clients. Either that, or those decision-makers are seriously incompetent and naive, but to a degree that is truly incredible. A degree that stretches credulity. In other words, if such auction-house professionals really do exist, then they must surely fall within the hyper-exclusive target market of fight attendants who tell us how to put on our seatbelts. __________ This was a longwinded way of saying that, for an unauthenticated Har ing, there can be no guesstimate as to what constitutes a "fair price" without first evaluating the strength of the seller's evidence in support of authenticity and provenance. If there is, say, accompanying video footage or a photograph of Har ing actually drawing the work, or taken immediately afterwards (e.g. showing Har ing and the seller holding up the drawing), then things do become interesting. Perhaps less-strong but still-compelling evidence could in some cases include the seller having a verifiably-documented professional or personal relationship with Har ing. Provided this evidentiary prerequisite has been satisfied, other factors relating to the work can then be considered, including: (i) whether or not signed and dated; (ii) size (e.g. small doodle vs larger drawing on US Letter-sized paper); (iii) specific medium (e.g. ballpoint pen vs thin marker vs wide chisel-tip marker); (iv) historical or other interest that the substrate may hold (e.g. a drawing on a gallery show card, receipt, restaurant napkin, dollar bill, etc. โ especially if the substrate has some connection with the artist, and/or the location where or timeframe when the drawing was purportedly created); (v) quality of the drawing, its visual appeal, and the apparent care taken during its execution; and (vi) condition of the drawing. However, in absence of any objectively-persuasive evidence of authenticity and provenance being offered by the seller (as I suspect is the case in your situation), for the reasons expressed above, I would value the drawing at $0.00. Or possibly a negative sum, given the opportunity costs involved in taking the time to consider the purchase. __________ Regarding your certainty that the drawing is legitimate, that could well influence its personal value to you, and the price you might be willing to pay. Sentimental factors may increase that price level too. For example, if the seller happens to be a family member or an old friend of yours. But none of this has significant relevance to the drawing's market value โ which is what you appear to be asking for guidance on. Market value is just another term for resale value. And you knowing that an artwork is genuine matters little, unless you can also prove it (on the balance of probabilities, if not beyond a reasonable doubt) to the next buyer down the chain. Without credible evidence, your pool of future potential buyers would pretty much be restricted to: (a) the tragically ignorant or stupid (in other words, the kind of vulnerable collectors each of us has the choice of either exploiting or not); and (b) anyone who, rather amazingly, is privy to documents or other information supporting authenticity and provenance, which not even your seller currently has access to.
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,782
Likes โข 6,706
June 2009
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Banksy Paris Hilton CD, by met on Nov 25, 2021 20:45:07 GMT 1, Sorry in advance for the length of what follows.
Whenever possible, my objective is to craft standalone posts. But I do understand how trying this may be, especially for members who read the forum on their telephones.
A.
I'm looking for the first pressing of Paris Hilton CD that Banksy made. Please PM. [...] I would also like to add that ironically, the photo the op has posted in theirIn Search Ofis the fake '2nd' version.
Indeed, Terry Fuckwitt, and well-spotted. That fake looks like it could be from the batch released by chancers in early 2008.
B.
Thanks for your responses. Thought the second pressing was also official. But only the ones with Paris X marked are official and of the 500 edition?
Thatโs correct right?
Admittedly, it's a little disheartening to come back and find the key point of my earlier post was missed.
What I pretty much had been trying to express was the timeless warning of Alexander Pope that, "A little learning is a dang'rous thing".
In other words, superficial knowledge can be perilous because it often gives us a misplaced sense of confidence. We know just enough to think we've understood โ just enough to be oblivious of how frighteningly ignorant we really are.
A response to your questions:
In a scenario where I was looking to scam you, I would try to sell you a fake Banksy Paris Hilton CD with a nicely-forged "Paris X" signature on it.
Sound like something a typical fraudster might try?
If yes, then here's another question: How could you then take any comfort in the authenticity of one of these CDs, simply based on the fact it had "Paris X" written on it?
C.
John 11:35
Please forgive the repetition below of parts of my earlier advice dated 17 November.
It inevitably risks me coming across as patronising. But the objective is rather to address an apparent need for greater emphasis and clarity.
[...] If you're dipping your toes in the market for higher-end Ban ksy ephemera โ which of course lacks the safety net of Pest Control Office oversight โ then you really need to know your onions. My advice would be to do a lot more homework. And to be very, very careful, including when liaising with dealers, galleries and auction houses that are selling purportedly-genuine collectibles without a Pest Control Office COA.With Ban ksy's spoofed Paris Hilton CD of 2006, there was never more than a single release. Official second or third pressings do not exist. The only distinction to therefore focus on is between (a) authentic, and (b) fake. And if you're not at this stage in the position of being able visually identify which is which, then consider stepping away. Because otherwise you are just asking to be ripped off, probably to the sum of four figures.
1. "a lot more homework" did not refer to a couple of exchanges with strangers on a message board.
What I had in mind was something closer to you doing a year's worth of proactive research, before even thinking about buying higher-end Banksy ephemera.
This reference, without exaggeration, to you being a full year behind (a year away from where a prudent collector should be) may offer a better idea of how scarily uninformed you come across. And why I sense you're so vulnerable to getting defrauded in the Banksy market.
Your entire approach is reckless, if not clueless. And given the amount of money you just spent, the fact a decision was taken to "Buy first, ask authenticity-related questions later" should worry you.
2. In the above context, let's ask ourselves what was meant by "be very, very careful".
I can confirm that two things it didn't mean were:
(i) immediately accepting auction-house lot descriptions at face value; and
(ii) spending ยฃ3,750 at auction later that same day.
D.
well done and glad to help
Query the "well done" remark.
From the photos available of the auction lot, were you able to determine with any certainty that the CD was authentic? I myself was incapable of doing so:
But here are some issues I did notice and consider:
1. The front of the CD case has a missing sticker which should set out the list of spoof song titles. And that sticker is crucial to the whole package โ conceptually, presentation-wise for increased visual interest, and in terms of the work's overall financial value.
Three of the more-likely different explanations for the absent sticker:
(i) the entire piece is fake; (ii) the CD case is not authentic (the original having been replaced with a different case); or (iii) for some inexplicable reason, a previous owner removed the sticker from the CD case.
Even in the best scenario of (iii) above, the end result is comparable to buying a jigsaw puzzle that has missing pieces.
Now, with the front of the CD being the first thing everyone sees, what informed Banksy collector in their right mind would be satisfied with this piece โ unless it was acquired for a substantially-discounted price?
Another point of note is that the auction house lot description makes zero mention of the sticker being absent. This was either a baffling oversight or a deliberate attempt to deceive buyer-clients through omission.
2. Due to the specific properties of the marker used and/or possibly-unsuitable CD storage conditions in the years that followed, the CD no longer has a sharp, clean signature. And while the spreading-grease-stain effect may be interesting in the eyes of some collectors, for me it's about as visually appealing as tattoo blowouts.
3. If given the choice between:
(a) a signature that reads "Paris"; and
(b) another one signed "Pans",
I would chose the former. Any day of the week.
E.
In this instance, it feels necessary to distinguish separate components:
1. CD case: Missing sticker compromises the integrity of the entire piece. Moreover, it raises questions about authenticity, at the very least regarding the CD case itself.
2. CD booklet insert: From the photos, authenticity remains unclear to me. No red flags spotted, but it could still be either genuine or fake.
3. Signed CD: Looks authentic to me, although note the aesthetic comments in points D.2 and D.3 above regarding the signature.
For the reasons set out in point 1 alone, in my opinion you made a poor purchase decision.
This specific piece is one I would never have seriously considered buying, let alone gone out and spent ยฃ3,750 for it. Keep in mind how frequently complete and visually-more-appealing copies of the CD pop up for sale.
F.
Is there a sticker on the case or not? There should be a sticker .. even in this thread there are 3 different shots of the front of the case. The first shot posted with a large sticker on the top left looks genuine. That sticker should be on the outside of the case not printed on the insert or missing. No sticker, they say there were a couple without stickers.
1. Who specifically is "they"?
2. Who/what exactly is the source of their information?
If it's just the consignor that was trying to offload the piece in the first place, what should this tell you?
3. Have you independently confirmed the information with the source in question, or with any other credible individuals?
4. More generally, how plausible does the assertion "there were a couple [originally] without stickers" really sound to you?
As already mentioned, the sticker with its list of spoof song titles is a critical element of the work. Along with Paris Hilton's bare breasts, it is the first thing viewers are meant to notice when picking up the CD.
So query whether anyone here thinks that, in 2006, Banksy's perfectionist mindset would allow him to just say, "Ah, those two CDs out of 500? Yeah, they're good enough without the sticker."
amsterdam22 โ The fact you don't seem to have asked the auction house the appropriate follow-up questions, or challenged the initial answer you received, must surely be a signal to you that you're out of your depth.
I appreciate these comments may be less-than-pleasant to read. But hopefully my candour will be taken in the cautionary spirit it was intended, not as a gratuitous slight.
Until they reach a position of knowledge self-sufficiency, here are tips for collectors:
Focus on learning more and exercising buyer restraint. Keep away from higher-end Banksy ephemera. Save longer, and set your sights instead on lower-end prints accompanied by a verified Pest Control Office certificate of authenticity.
All that said, sometimes people just need to make their own mistakes, including very expensive ones.
Even the most experienced collectors among us were novices at one point. And, on occasions at the time, many will have also thrown caution to the wind โ buying left, right and centre. In effect, behaving like impatient, excitable puppies with no self-control. I've certainly been there.
G.
If you cannot make your own sound judgement on whether this is legit or not then you should not part with any cash at this stage.
Very nicely put. And far more concise than I was able to manage.
Sorry in advance for the length of what follows. Whenever possible, my objective is to craft standalone posts. But I do understand how trying this may be, especially for members who read the forum on their telephones. A.I'm looking for the first pressing of Paris Hilton CD that Banksy made. Please PM. [...] I would also like to add that ironically, the photo the op has posted in theirIn Search Ofis the fake '2nd' version. Indeed, Terry Fuckwitt, and well-spotted. That fake looks like it could be from the batch released by chancers in early 2008. B.Thanks for your responses. Thought the second pressing was also official. But only the ones with Paris X marked are official and of the 500 edition?
Thatโs correct right?Admittedly, it's a little disheartening to come back and find the key point of my earlier post was missed. What I pretty much had been trying to express was the timeless warning of Alexander Pope that, "A little learning is a dang'rous thing". In other words, superficial knowledge can be perilous because it often gives us a misplaced sense of confidence. We know just enough to think we've understood โ just enough to be oblivious of how frighteningly ignorant we really are. A response to your questions: In a scenario where I was looking to scam you, I would try to sell you a fake Ban ksy Paris Hilton CD with a nicely-forged "Paris X" signature on it. Sound like something a typical fraudster might try? If yes, then here's another question: How could you then take any comfort in the authenticity of one of these CDs, simply based on the fact it had "Paris X" written on it? C.John 11:35 Please forgive the repetition below of parts of my earlier advice dated 17 November. It inevitably risks me coming across as patronising. But the objective is rather to address an apparent need for greater emphasis and clarity. [...] If you're dipping your toes in the market for higher-end Ban ksy ephemera โ which of course lacks the safety net of Pest Control Office oversight โ then you really need to know your onions. My advice would be to do a lot more homework. And to be very, very careful, including when liaising with dealers, galleries and auction houses that are selling purportedly-genuine collectibles without a Pest Control Office COA.With Ban ksy's spoofed Paris Hilton CD of 2006, there was never more than a single release. Official second or third pressings do not exist. The only distinction to therefore focus on is between (a) authentic, and (b) fake. And if you're not at this stage in the position of being able visually identify which is which, then consider stepping away. Because otherwise you are just asking to be ripped off, probably to the sum of four figures. 1. "a lot more homework" did not refer to a couple of exchanges with strangers on a message board. What I had in mind was something closer to you doing a year's worth of proactive research, before even thinking about buying higher-end Ban ksy ephemera. This reference, without exaggeration, to you being a full year behind (a year away from where a prudent collector should be) may offer a better idea of how scarily uninformed you come across. And why I sense you're so vulnerable to getting defrauded in the Ban ksy market. Your entire approach is reckless, if not clueless. And given the amount of money you just spent, the fact a decision was taken to "Buy first, ask authenticity-related questions later" should worry you. 2. In the above context, let's ask ourselves what was meant by "be very, very careful". I can confirm that two things it didn't mean were: (i) immediately accepting auction-house lot descriptions at face value; and (ii) spending ยฃ3,750 at auction later that same day. D.well done and glad to help Query the "well done" remark. From the photos available of the auction lot, were you able to determine with any certainty that the CD was authentic? I myself was incapable of doing so: But here are some issues I did notice and consider:1. The front of the CD case has a missing sticker which should set out the list of spoof song titles. And that sticker is crucial to the whole package โ conceptually, presentation-wise for increased visual interest, and in terms of the work's overall financial value. Three of the more-likely different explanations for the absent sticker: (i) the entire piece is fake; (ii) the CD case is not authentic (the original having been replaced with a different case); or (iii) for some inexplicable reason, a previous owner removed the sticker from the CD case. Even in the best scenario of (iii) above, the end result is comparable to buying a jigsaw puzzle that has missing pieces. Now, with the front of the CD being the first thing everyone sees, what informed Ban ksy collector in their right mind would be satisfied with this piece โ unless it was acquired for a substantially-discounted price? Another point of note is that the auction house lot description makes zero mention of the sticker being absent. This was either a baffling oversight or a deliberate attempt to deceive buyer-clients through omission. 2. Due to the specific properties of the marker used and/or possibly-unsuitable CD storage conditions in the years that followed, the CD no longer has a sharp, clean signature. And while the spreading-grease-stain effect may be interesting in the eyes of some collectors, for me it's about as visually appealing as tattoo blowouts. 3. If given the choice between: (a) a signature that reads "Paris"; and (b) another one signed "Pans", I would chose the former. Any day of the week. E.In this instance, it feels necessary to distinguish separate components: 1. CD case: Missing sticker compromises the integrity of the entire piece. Moreover, it raises questions about authenticity, at the very least regarding the CD case itself. 2. CD booklet insert: From the photos, authenticity remains unclear to me. No red flags spotted, but it could still be either genuine or fake. 3. Signed CD: Looks authentic to me, although note the aesthetic comments in points D.2 and D.3 above regarding the signature. For the reasons set out in point 1 alone, in my opinion you made a poor purchase decision. This specific piece is one I would never have seriously considered buying, let alone gone out and spent ยฃ3,750 for it. Keep in mind how frequently complete and visually-more-appealing copies of the CD pop up for sale. F.Is there a sticker on the case or not? There should be a sticker .. even in this thread there are 3 different shots of the front of the case. The first shot posted with a large sticker on the top left looks genuine. That sticker should be on the outside of the case not printed on the insert or missing. No sticker, they say there were a couple without stickers. 1. Who specifically is "they"? 2. Who/what exactly is the source of their information? If it's just the consignor that was trying to offload the piece in the first place, what should this tell you? 3. Have you independently confirmed the information with the source in question, or with any other credible individuals? 4. More generally, how plausible does the assertion "there were a couple [originally] without stickers" really sound to you? As already mentioned, the sticker with its list of spoof song titles is a critical element of the work. Along with Paris Hilton's bare breasts, it is the first thing viewers are meant to notice when picking up the CD. So query whether anyone here thinks that, in 2006, Ban ksy's perfectionist mindset would allow him to just say, "Ah, those two CDs out of 500? Yeah, they're good enough without the sticker."amsterdam22 โ The fact you don't seem to have asked the auction house the appropriate follow-up questions, or challenged the initial answer you received, must surely be a signal to you that you're out of your depth. I appreciate these comments may be less-than-pleasant to read. But hopefully my candour will be taken in the cautionary spirit it was intended, not as a gratuitous slight. Until they reach a position of knowledge self-sufficiency, here are tips for collectors: Focus on learning more and exercising buyer restraint. Keep away from higher-end Ban ksy ephemera. Save longer, and set your sights instead on lower-end prints accompanied by a verified Pest Control Office certificate of authenticity. All that said, sometimes people just need to make their own mistakes, including very expensive ones. Even the most experienced collectors among us were novices at one point. And, on occasions at the time, many will have also thrown caution to the wind โ buying left, right and centre. In effect, behaving like impatient, excitable puppies with no self-control. I've certainly been there. G.If you cannot make your own sound judgement on whether this is legit or not then you should not part with any cash at this stage. Very nicely put. And far more concise than I was able to manage.
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,782
Likes โข 6,706
June 2009
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Keith Haring Galerie Watari Poster For Sale, by met on Nov 25, 2021 17:10:09 GMT 1, These cant be original posters from 83 as it has the blurb down the bottom '...published by on Sundays publications'......which didnt exist in 83
Or am I missing something?Yes I believe you are missing something. Here's a Watari poster from 1983 signed and dated by Keith Haring belonging to the Cooper Hewitt, Smithsonian Design Museum. With the same blurb down the bottom '...published by on Sundays publications'. collection.cooperhewitt.org/objects/18673535/The Watari poster published in the book Keith Haring: Posters also has the same blurb. Furthermore the Watari Museum Shop has confirmed a few times that these are from the original batch. urbanartassociation.com/thread/162750/keith-haring-watari-offset-litographSo I have no reason to believe that these Haring posters aren't original. Unless somebody can share a source/sources that prove otherwise.
Perhaps not so much "missing something", and more a case of jones27 basing their argument on a false premise.
Because On Sundays (a.k.a. โฆon Sundays) actually did exist in 1983.
Besides the poster, On Sundays published the limited edition of 1000 books which accompanied the Keith Haring exhibition at Galerie Watari (8 Marchโ8 April 1983).
Any fans here of On Kawara? On Sundays also published the catalogue (On Kawara: Date Paintings 1981โ1983) in conjunction with this artist's show, held at Galerie Watari later the same year (27 Octoberโ30 November 1983).
My impression is that On Sundays โ Shikusho Watari / the Watari family. In addition, it is the name of the gift shop at the Watari Museum of Contemporary Art.
These cant be original posters from 83 as it has the blurb down the bottom '...published by on Sundays publications'......which didnt exist in 83
Or am I missing something?Yes I believe you are missing something. Here's a Watari poster from 1983 signed and dated by Keith Haring belonging to the Cooper Hewitt, Smithsonian Design Museum. With the same blurb down the bottom '...published by on Sundays publications'. collection.cooperhewitt.org/objects/18673535/The Watari poster published in the book Keith Haring: Posters also has the same blurb. Furthermore the Watari Museum Shop has confirmed a few times that these are from the original batch. urbanartassociation.com/thread/162750/keith-haring-watari-offset-litographSo I have no reason to believe that these Haring posters aren't original. Unless somebody can share a source/sources that prove otherwise. Perhaps not so much "missing something", and more a case of jones27 basing their argument on a false premise. Because On Sundays (a.k.a. โฆon Sundays) actually did exist in 1983. Besides the poster, On Sundays published the limited edition of 1000 books which accompanied the Keith Haring exhibition at Galerie Watari (8 Marchโ8 April 1983). Any fans here of On Kawara? On Sundays also published the catalogue ( On Kawara: Date Paintings 1981โ1983) in conjunction with this artist's show, held at Galerie Watari later the same year (27 Octoberโ30 November 1983). My impression is that On Sundays โ Shikusho Watari / the Watari family. In addition, it is the name of the gift shop at the Watari Museum of Contemporary Art.
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met
Junior Member
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June 2009
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Banksy Paris Hilton CD, by met on Nov 17, 2021 16:44:43 GMT 1, I'm looking for the first pressing of Paris Hilton CD that Banksy made. Please PM.
If I were a recidivist conman or just a one-off chancer (and there are plenty of members here who have shown themselves to be dishonest on occasions when a convenient opportunity arose), your username would be added to my list of potential marks.
Here's why:
What the reference to "first pressing" strongly suggests is ignorance.
It immediately makes me think the following:
"This is a collector who lacks field experience and doesn't have a full grasp of the relevant facts. All I need to do is switch on my friendly, faux-genuine demeanour. Then, with a fabricated yet credible backstory, some fake provenance documentation, and my relaxed but confident tone, they'll be ripe for the picking โ both keen to buy, and incapable of distinguishing the genuine item from a decent counterfeit."
__________
If you're dipping your toes in the market for higher-end Banksy ephemera โ which of course lacks the safety net of Pest Control Office oversight โ then you really need to know your onions.
My advice would be to do a lot more homework. And to be very, very careful, including when liaising with dealers, galleries and auction houses that are selling purportedly-genuine collectibles without a Pest Control Office COA.
With Banksy's spoofed Paris Hilton CD of 2006, there was never more than a single release. Official second or third pressings do not exist.
The only distinction to therefore focus on is between (a) authentic, and (b) fake.
And if you're not at this stage in the position of being able visually identify which is which, then consider stepping away. Because otherwise you are just asking to be ripped off, probably to the sum of four figures.
I'm looking for the first pressing of Paris Hilton CD that Banksy made. Please PM. If I were a recidivist conman or just a one-off chancer (and there are plenty of members here who have shown themselves to be dishonest on occasions when a convenient opportunity arose), your username would be added to my list of potential marks. Here's why:What the reference to "first pressing" strongly suggests is ignorance. It immediately makes me think the following: "This is a collector who lacks field experience and doesn't have a full grasp of the relevant facts. All I need to do is switch on my friendly, faux-genuine demeanour. Then, with a fabricated yet credible backstory, some fake provenance documentation, and my relaxed but confident tone, they'll be ripe for the picking โ both keen to buy, and incapable of distinguishing the genuine item from a decent counterfeit."__________ If you're dipping your toes in the market for higher-end Ban ksy ephemera โ which of course lacks the safety net of Pest Control Office oversight โ then you really need to know your onions. My advice would be to do a lot more homework. And to be very, very careful, including when liaising with dealers, galleries and auction houses that are selling purportedly-genuine collectibles without a Pest Control Office COA. With Ban ksy's spoofed Paris Hilton CD of 2006, there was never more than a single release. Official second or third pressings do not exist. The only distinction to therefore focus on is between (a) authentic, and (b) fake. And if you're not at this stage in the position of being able visually identify which is which, then consider stepping away. Because otherwise you are just asking to be ripped off, probably to the sum of four figures.
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met
Junior Member
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June 2009
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Steve Powers ๐บ๐ธ ESPO โข New York Street Art โข New Release, by met on Nov 9, 2021 14:59:46 GMT 1,
My (possibly false) assumption is that, in your own mind at the time of its original purchase, the Steve Powers You And Me image represented you and your then-partner:
Working together as a team. United. Perhaps even the two of you against the whole world.
In case this is correct, it would seem apt โ nay, beautifully poetic โ that you lose the piece upon the breakup of your relationship. My argument would then be to let it go and move on.
Artworks with an associated history cease being neutral. And they are rarely cookie cutters that can just be reapplied to the next person who comes along. If a female friend were getting remarried, I would also discourage her from wearing the same wedding dress she wore the first time around.
My (possibly false) assumption is that, in your own mind at the time of its original purchase, the Steve Powers You And Me image represented you and your then-partner: Working together as a team. United. Perhaps even the two of you against the whole world. In case this is correct, it would seem apt โ nay, beautifully poetic โ that you lose the piece upon the breakup of your relationship. My argument would then be to let it go and move on. Artworks with an associated history cease being neutral. And they are rarely cookie cutters that can just be reapplied to the next person who comes along. If a female friend were getting remarried, I would also discourage her from wearing the same wedding dress she wore the first time around.
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,782
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June 2009
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What Music are you listening to at the moment ?, by met on Oct 23, 2021 7:39:41 GMT 1, Music quiz for a bit of Friday night fun. Who can name the link between this Dylan masterpiece and a design movement. If possible, answer only with a picture. Bonus point for answering before met (only because I absolutely know he will know in an instant!). Coach memphis milano aka the memphis group. Can we answer with a picture? Pick you best You are, nonetheless spot on! Bravo. The Memphis Group. Not from Memphis at all. But they named themselves after the Dylan song. Wonderful bizarre furniture, full of colour and peculiar angles, balls, squiggles, odd corners and shapes. Worth a google.
Cheers for the heads-up, Coach.
On this occasion, I arrived some nine hours late to the party.
Well done to B-.
____________________
Although the quiz question was rather literal, I heartily applaud efforts by anyone here who encourages others to be curious, think more, and explore beyond the ghetto that is "urban art".
Members who lack that curiosity or willingness to broaden their horizons are at a disadvantage. This, even within the context of the urban art and street art genres โ which frequently allude to or riff on works from other artistic movements and creative disciplines.
The likes of, say, Banksy, Pejac or Blek le Rat often cannot be fully understood (and therefore fully appreciated) if the viewer is oblivious to their art historical, socio-political or cultural references.
One straightforward example:
1. In 1940, photographer Barbara Morgan created perhaps the most famous image of the modern dancer and choreographer, Martha Graham.
That photo is from Graham's ballet performance of Letter to the World โ based on the love life of the American poet Emily Dickinson, and named after her poem, This is My Letter to the World.
2. Morgan's photo was the source image for the series of screenprints Andy Warhol created in 1986, titled Letter to the World (The Kick). These were part of a portfolio published by the Martha Graham Centre of Contemporary Dance, Inc., New York to commemorate its 16th anniversary.
3. In 2006, Blek le Rat resurrected his own image, Dancer (which he appears to have originally created and used in the late 1980s), releasing a spraypaint-on-canvas edition of 3.
[This was later followed in 2008 by a couple of screenprint editions published by The Black Rat Press.]
Note the 90ยฐ clockwise rotation. Whereas Martha Graham was kicking backward using her left leg, the Blek le Rat version makes the dancer look like she's kicking upward with her right leg. The result is awkward to my eyes. And unimpressive compared to Morgan's photo, along with Warhol's various takes on it.
It is conceivable that Blek le Rat's different composition was due to him being mistaken about the correct orientation of the dancer. More likely, however, this was his conscious attempt at reinterpreting and giving new meaning to the image.
The wider point is that any Blek le Rat fans who are clueless about dance, photography and Pop Art will not actually be in a position to ask the question in the first place.
Now, this is hardly a big deal if we're talking about novice art enthusiasts. But it is regrettable in cases where such ignorance happens to be shared by more experienced collectors.
__________
My default recommendation, therefore, is that people continue to push themselves to be ambitious and proactive in their learning. To cast their net beyond what they find easy or immediately engaging.
I am reassured by the fact I sometimes even follow my own advice.
Of course, approaching an unfamiliar area is often intimidating. So it's worth keeping in mind that fortune favours those among us who are able to overcome this initial mental hurdle โ by just taking the first (unsteady) steps onto new territory. Getting to grip with the basics of a subject matter also does wonders in terms of building confidence. And enthusiasm. It really helps to foster an even greater interest in the relevant field.
This has certainly been my own experience when trying to become educated about both the Rococo movement and the Pre-Raphaelites. I remain painfully, embarrassingly clueless, but that has always been the fate of eternal students. It is a constantly awkward, humbling, yet nevertheless rewarding process.
____________________
Circling back to the Memphis Group*, a 2012 quote from an SFGATE.com article* made me chuckle:
Perhaps most misunderstood and openly loathed, however, was Memphis, a school of design that was a riot of color and materials that often overwhelmed a piece's original intent, a shotgun wedding between Bauhaus and Fisher-Price.
As already indicated by Coach, this Italian design and architecture group was named after the Bob Dylan song, Stuck Inside of Mobile with the Memphis Blues Again โ which apparently played repeatedly in the background during their first meeting. Separately, besides Memphis, the song title refers to the city of Mobile, Alabama. My understanding is that, depending on the context, "mobile" in Italian can refer to "furniture" (e.g. "Salone del Mobile" translates to "Furniture Fair").
I wouldn't have too much of this style in my own home, but do enjoy its playfulness. Moreover, one may sense a cheerful Fuck you sentiment, possibly directed at the traditional design world, which is very appealing to me as well.
There follows three additional photos, in case they also help to pique the interest of forum members. The pieces below were among the 100 lots auctioned by Sotheby's London on 11 November 2016 from the Ettore Sottsass and the Memphis Group former collection of David Bowie.
See all 100 lots here:
www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/2016/bowie-collector-part-iii-design-ettore-sottsass-memphis-group-l16149.html
____________________
Lastly, for a contemporary example of the Memphis Group's influence, and a somewhat forced tie-in with "street art", check out the projects of Camille Walala*, including the Splice building she completed in 2015 near Old Street tube station in East London:
Music quiz for a bit of Friday night fun. Who can name the link between this Dylan masterpiece and a design movement. If possible, answer only with a picture. Bonus point for answering before met (only because I absolutely know he will know in an instant!). Coach memphis milano aka the memphis group. Can we answer with a picture? Pick you best You are, nonetheless spot on! Bravo. The Memphis Group. Not from Memphis at all. But they named themselves after the Dylan song. Wonderful bizarre furniture, full of colour and peculiar angles, balls, squiggles, odd corners and shapes. Worth a google. Cheers for the heads-up, Coach. On this occasion, I arrived some nine hours late to the party. Well done to B-. ____________________ Although the quiz question was rather literal, I heartily applaud efforts by anyone here who encourages others to be curious, think more, and explore beyond the ghetto that is "ur ban art". Members who lack that curiosity or willingness to broaden their horizons are at a disadvantage. This, even within the context of the ur ban art and str eet art genres โ which frequently allude to or riff on works from other artistic movements and creative disciplines. The likes of, say, Banksy, Pejac or Blek le Rat often cannot be fully understood (and therefore fully appreciated) if the viewer is oblivious to their art historical, socio-political or cultural references. One straightforward example:1. In 1940, photographer Barbara Morgan created perhaps the most famous image of the modern dancer and choreographer, Martha Graham. That photo is from Graham's ballet performance of Letter to the World โ based on the love life of the American poet Emily Dickinson, and named after her poem, This is My Letter to the World. 2. Morgan's photo was the source image for the series of screenprints Andy Warhol created in 1986, titled Letter to the World (The Kick). These were part of a portfolio published by the Martha Graham Centre of Contemporary Dance, Inc., New York to commemorate its 16th anniversary. 3. In 2006, Blek le Rat resurrected his own image, Dancer (which he appears to have originally created and used in the late 1980s), releasing a spraypaint-on-canvas edition of 3. [This was later followed in 2008 by a couple of screenprint editions published by The Black Rat Press.] Note the 90ยฐ clockwise rotation. Whereas Martha Graham was kicking backward using her left leg, the Bl ek le Rat version makes the dancer look like she's kicking upward with her right leg. The result is awkward to my eyes. And unimpressive compared to Morgan's photo, along with War hol's various takes on it. It is conceivable that Bl ek le Rat's different composition was due to him being mistaken about the correct orientation of the dancer. More likely, however, this was his conscious attempt at reinterpreting and giving new meaning to the image. The wider point is that any Bl ek le Rat fans who are clueless about dance, photography and Pop Art will not actually be in a position to ask the question in the first place. Now, this is hardly a big deal if we're talking about novice art enthusiasts. But it is regrettable in cases where such ignorance happens to be shared by more experienced collectors. __________ My default recommendation, therefore, is that people continue to push themselves to be ambitious and proactive in their learning. To cast their net beyond what they find easy or immediately engaging. I am reassured by the fact I sometimes even follow my own advice. Of course, approaching an unfamiliar area is often intimidating. So it's worth keeping in mind that fortune favours those among us who are able to overcome this initial mental hurdle โ by just taking the first (unsteady) steps onto new territory. Getting to grip with the basics of a subject matter also does wonders in terms of building confidence. And enthusiasm. It really helps to foster an even greater interest in the relevant field. This has certainly been my own experience when trying to become educated about both the Rococo movement and the Pre-Raphaelites. I remain painfully, embarrassingly clueless, but that has always been the fate of eternal students. It is a constantly awkward, humbling, yet nevertheless rewarding process. ____________________ Circling back to the Memphis Group*, a 2012 quote from an SFGATE.com article * made me chuckle: Perhaps most misunderstood and openly loathed, however, was Memphis, a school of design that was a riot of color and materials that often overwhelmed a piece's original intent, a shotgun wedding between Bauhaus and Fisher-Price.As already indicated by Coach, this Italian design and architecture group was named after the Bob Dylan song, Stuck Inside of Mobile with the Memphis Blues Again โ which apparently played repeatedly in the background during their first meeting. Separately, besides Memphis, the song title refers to the city of Mobile, Alabama. My understanding is that, depending on the context, "mobile" in Italian can refer to "furniture" (e.g. "Salone del Mobile" translates to "Furniture Fair"). I wouldn't have too much of this style in my own home, but do enjoy its playfulness. Moreover, one may sense a cheerful Fuck you sentiment, possibly directed at the traditional design world, which is very appealing to me as well. There follows three additional photos, in case they also help to pique the interest of forum members. The pieces below were among the 100 lots auctioned by Sotheby's London on 11 November 2016 from the Ettore Sottsass and the Memphis Group former collection of David Bowie. See all 100 lots here: www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/2016/bowie-collector-part-iii-design-ettore-sottsass-memphis-group-l16149.html____________________ Lastly, for a contemporary example of the Memphis Group's influence, and a somewhat forced tie-in with "str eet art", check out the projects of Camille Walala*, including the Splice building she completed in 2015 near Old Street tube station in East London:
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,782
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June 2009
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New Terry Urban paintings, by met on Oct 21, 2021 0:44:29 GMT 1, Our current exhibition is featuring two works by DJ/Music Producer turned Painter Terry Urban. If you have any questions let us know also comment your thoughts on the works we would love to hear them.Artist: Terry Urban Original: 1/1 Painting Title: โNothing left to loseโ Size: 36 x 48 inches | 91 x 122 cm Medium: Mixed media on Birch wood panel Location: Los Angles Price: $8,000 Artist: Terry Urban Original: 1/1 Title: โDrab Measureโ Size: 36 x 48 inches | 91 x 122 cm Medium: Mixed media on Birch wood panel Location: Los Angles Price: $5,000
Had never previously heard of Terry Urban.
In the interest of candour, the pieces you've posted leave me with a feeling of slight embarrassment. Stylistically and thematically, they are patent Wes Lang ripoffs.
In your position as a gallery โ and therefore as a gatekeeper / educator โ going forward, I would encourage you to seek out artists with more singular voices, and to shun those whose work is so obviously derivative.
It is my view that coattail-riding should be called out rather than promoted.
Our current exhibition is featuring two works by DJ/Music Producer turned Painter Terry Urban. If you have any questions let us know also comment your thoughts on the works we would love to hear them.Artist: Terry Urban Original: 1/1 Painting Title: โNothing left to loseโ Size: 36 x 48 inches | 91 x 122 cm Medium: Mixed media on Birch wood panel Location: Los Angles Price: $8,000 Artist: Terry Urban Original: 1/1 Title: โDrab Measureโ Size: 36 x 48 inches | 91 x 122 cm Medium: Mixed media on Birch wood panel Location: Los Angles Price: $5,000 Had never previously heard of Terry Urban. In the interest of candour, the pieces you've posted leave me with a feeling of slight embarrassment. Stylistically and thematically, they are patent Wes Lang ripoffs. In your position as a gallery โ and therefore as a gatekeeper / educator โ going forward, I would encourage you to seek out artists with more singular voices, and to shun those whose work is so obviously derivative. It is my view that coattail-riding should be called out rather than promoted.
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met
Junior Member
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June 2009
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New Print: 'Untitled' , by met on Oct 19, 2021 21:52:43 GMT 1, Back after a long while since creating any work... Gauging interest and feedbackAn older piece I've finished working on inspired by my own experience with mental health. I'm thinking about releasing a short print run in 3 colours; Pink, Green and a hand finished TBD acrylic ink. As always I love feedback from the forum, many of you have kindly purchased my previous releases. Edition: 20 of each colour Dimensions: Paper: 300 x 400 / Image: 210 x 297 Method: Fine Art Giclee Price: ยฃ45.00 w/ Free Shipping (EU) or ยฃ40.00 w/ ยฃ5.00 shipping (EU) which ever feels better
Good to hear you're still creating, and I encourage you to continue doing so.
Here is some feedback about the artwork itself, covering both design and idea:
1. Consider removing the white outline along the v-shape of the waistcoat (where the waistcoat meets shirt and tie). That outline would not be present in reality. On balance, therefore, it is arguably more of an out-of-place distraction than a visual enhancement to the image.
2. Formalwear is all about code. That's the whole point. And a winged collar is normally worn with a bowtie or possibly a cravat, rather than with a tie.
Now, I do have a great affinity for many rule breakers. But I think there is also a big difference, between:
(i) those who act in a knowing, clever manner; and
(ii) those whose transgressions are mundane to the point of appearing based on just ignorance of convention (which I would deem unfortunate).
It's worth adding that I have witnessed some cases where individuals did pull off the 'winged collar with regular tie' look. However, those successes were very few and far between, and often down to a compensating natural charisma of the specific wearer.
3. The most serious criticism from me would be the artwork's concept. A Google Images search for "cloud head" immediately indicates just how often this theme has already been used and rehashed by so many other artists and illustrators โ to the point where it's become a clichรฉ.
All that said, I believe many collectors will not notice, be aware of, or be bothered by any of the points mentioned above.
Your piece has clear visual appeal. And even if unoriginal, its concept remains an engaging one.
Back after a long while since creating any work... Gauging interest and feedbackAn older piece I've finished working on inspired by my own experience with mental health. I'm thinking about releasing a short print run in 3 colours; Pink, Green and a hand finished TBD acrylic ink. As always I love feedback from the forum, many of you have kindly purchased my previous releases. Edition: 20 of each colour Dimensions: Paper: 300 x 400 / Image: 210 x 297 Method: Fine Art Giclee Price: ยฃ45.00 w/ Free Shipping (EU) or ยฃ40.00 w/ ยฃ5.00 shipping (EU) which ever feels better Good to hear you're still creating, and I encourage you to continue doing so. Here is some feedback about the artwork itself, covering both design and idea: 1. Consider removing the white outline along the v-shape of the waistcoat (where the waistcoat meets shirt and tie). That outline would not be present in reality. On balance, therefore, it is arguably more of an out-of-place distraction than a visual enhancement to the image. 2. Formalwear is all about code. That's the whole point. And a winged collar is normally worn with a bowtie or possibly a cravat, rather than with a tie. Now, I do have a great affinity for many rule breakers. But I think there is also a big difference, between: (i) those who act in a knowing, clever manner; and (ii) those whose transgressions are mundane to the point of appearing based on just ignorance of convention (which I would deem unfortunate). It's worth adding that I have witnessed some cases where individuals did pull off the 'winged collar with regular tie' look. However, those successes were very few and far between, and often down to a compensating natural charisma of the specific wearer. 3. The most serious criticism from me would be the artwork's concept. A Google Images search for "cloud head" immediately indicates just how often this theme has already been used and rehashed by so many other artists and illustrators โ to the point where it's become a clichรฉ. All that said, I believe many collectors will not notice, be aware of, or be bothered by any of the points mentioned above. Your piece has clear visual appeal. And even if unoriginal, its concept remains an engaging one.
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met
Junior Member
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June 2009
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How Much Is Shredded Girl With Balloon Worth Now?, by met on Oct 16, 2021 8:11:23 GMT 1,
Previously discussed here** in the context of another 8 October 2018 article, published in Metro (part of DMG Media, as with Daily Mail).
__________
What's regrettable about this kind of business advertisement, which masquerades as news, is the number of readers that will accept it unquestioningly. They'll take the information therein at face value.
Psychologically, this does hold some interest:
The deceit is often effective, in part because readers want the story to be genuine.
We all like to think we're smart. So when the finger is pointed at someone else, somebody who appears to have acted stupidly, we get a sense of being more intelligent by comparison. The ego massage immediately makes us feel better about ourselves. And the manipulator's hope is that we be disinclined to question the narrative fed to us in the relevant article.
__________
In this instance, we've got two images of a counterfeit Girl with Balloon and shredder-effect slicing. The photos are low-res, but still detailed enough to show the print is fake. It could well be one of the countless churned out by that intellectual property thief and parasite, The West Country Prince.
References in the 2018 articles to the print having a value of ยฃ40,000 are therefore lies, and the black circle in the top photo (suggesting a covered-up edition number) looks like an effort to make the deception more convincing.
One irony is clear:
Many of the articles' readers will be duped by the print's owner, i.e. duped by the very person they'll mistakenly believe to be a fool for having sliced up a genuine Banksy.
__________
Now, who could be the actual owner of the print?
A question that always needs asking is, Cui bono? And more specifically here, Who benefits from this fabricated story and press attention?
The answer seems straightforward to me: Ian Syer and/or Joe Syer from MyArtBroker. They presumably contacted DMG Media in the first place to offer their "scoop".
But query what's been achieved:
Free advertising for MyArtBroker? Definitely. Entertaining story? Perhaps. But also dishonest, and integrity-compromising. That's unfortunate for any business wishing to be seen as reputable.
Whenever art dealers are identified as stooping to this type of shenanigan, a level of trust is lost. I also find it difficult to take those people seriously. It's simpler to just dismiss them as clowns.
Previously discussed here ** in the context of another 8 October 2018 article, published in Metro (part of DMG Media, as with Daily Mail). __________ What's regrettable about this kind of business advertisement, which masquerades as news, is the number of readers that will accept it unquestioningly. They'll take the information therein at face value. Psychologically, this does hold some interest: The deceit is often effective, in part because readers want the story to be genuine. We all like to think we're smart. So when the finger is pointed at someone else, somebody who appears to have acted stupidly, we get a sense of being more intelligent by comparison. The ego massage immediately makes us feel better about ourselves. And the manipulator's hope is that we be disinclined to question the narrative fed to us in the relevant article. __________ In this instance, we've got two images of a counterfeit Girl with Balloon and shredder-effect slicing. The photos are low-res, but still detailed enough to show the print is fake. It could well be one of the countless churned out by that intellectual property thief and parasite, The West Country Prince. References in the 2018 articles to the print having a value of ยฃ40,000 are therefore lies, and the black circle in the top photo (suggesting a covered-up edition number) looks like an effort to make the deception more convincing. One irony is clear: Many of the articles' readers will be duped by the print's owner, i.e. duped by the very person they'll mistakenly believe to be a fool for having sliced up a genuine Ban ksy. __________ Now, who could be the actual owner of the print? A question that always needs asking is, Cui bono? And more specifically here, Who benefits from this fabricated story and press attention?The answer seems straightforward to me: Ian Syer and/or Joe Syer from MyArtBroker. They presumably contacted DMG Media in the first place to offer their "scoop". But query what's been achieved: Free advertising for MyArtBroker? Definitely. Entertaining story? Perhaps. But also dishonest, and integrity-compromising. That's unfortunate for any business wishing to be seen as reputable. Whenever art dealers are identified as stooping to this type of shenanigan, a level of trust is lost. I also find it difficult to take those people seriously. It's simpler to just dismiss them as clowns.
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met
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June 2009
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Pejac Show in Berlin - APNEA, by met on Oct 4, 2021 18:32:18 GMT 1, Pejac Drain I, 2021 Oil on artist's pallet 40 x 50 x 0.4 cm
Claude Monet Impressions, soleil levant (Impressions, Sunrise), 1872 Oil on canvas 48 x 63 cm
Wikipedia: The painting is credited with inspiring the name of the Impressionist movement.
PejacDrain I, 2021 Oil on artist's pallet 40 x 50 x 0.4 cm Claude MonetImpressions, soleil levant ( Impressions, Sunrise), 1872 Oil on canvas 48 x 63 cm Wikipedia: The painting is credited with inspiring the name of the Impressionist movement.
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met
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June 2009
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Cotton
Sept 29, 2021 21:01:40 GMT 1
Cotton, by met on Sept 29, 2021 21:01:40 GMT 1, Hi folks random question. It's the 2nd wedding anniversary of me and my better half which is apparently cotton. Does anyone know of any street art related tapestries, or cloth related art? Just seeking some inspiration!
It's a stretch, but paper used for a lot of screenprints is Arches 88 that is 100% cotton. Plenty of really nice prints made from it, including a lot of POW ones.
eyectopus's idea is the one I'd be tempted to go with.
Just buy some art that you yourself covet and would like to have hanging in your home:
1. If it's an oil or acrylic painting, most likely the canvas will be cotton.
2. If it's a watercolour, drawing, collage or print on fine art paper, that paper will quite likely be 100% cotton rag.
When presenting the piece to your spouse, remember to make a big song and dance about the selection process having required a great deal of thought. Stress that you chose the artwork as a 2nd-anniversary gift specifically because of the cotton substrate.
Hi folks random question. It's the 2nd wedding anniversary of me and my better half which is apparently cotton. Does anyone know of any street art related tapestries, or cloth related art? Just seeking some inspiration! It's a stretch, but paper used for a lot of screenprints is Arches 88 that is 100% cotton. Plenty of really nice prints made from it, including a lot of POW ones. eyectopus's idea is the one I'd be tempted to go with. Just buy some art that you yourself covet and would like to have hanging in your home: 1. If it's an oil or acrylic painting, most likely the canvas will be cotton. 2. If it's a watercolour, drawing, collage or print on fine art paper, that paper will quite likely be 100% cotton rag. When presenting the piece to your spouse, remember to make a big song and dance about the selection process having required a great deal of thought. Stress that you chose the artwork as a 2nd-anniversary gift specifically because of the cotton substrate.
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,782
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June 2009
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VINYL JUNKIES, by met on Sept 20, 2021 18:35:59 GMT 1, Hey all, so a quick question if anyone can help? I have fairly expensive record ( ยฃ2500-3000) that Iโm thinking of selling on eBay and want to open it up internationally via the global shipping programme but the limit is ยฃ2000 so theyโll prob send it back to me. Have any of you dealt with a reputable packing and delivery company (from the UK)? Thanks and good night!
Why not cut eBay out entirely? There's record forums just like this art one. If it's a highly sought after record, you'll find a buyer. true and completely forgot about that. Cheers and Discogs too ( but you knew that ; )
Care to share the record? yeah sure, didnโt want to say before because Iโve noticed certain people in the forum have a problem as itโs an unauthorised BANKSY image. Itโs a dirty funker flat beat happy choppers in very good condition. Cheers I thought about Banksy ( at this price ) I have had this one too before the Big Bang ! :-) Was new, and sold then for a couple of quid. I hear you Lroy, peace out Any problem ?
" Is it rude to say peace out? Yes - it's a colloquial way to say "goodbye." It can also function as a phrasal verb: "I'm going to peace out" = "I'm going to take off. "
How should I take that ?
I hear you Lroy, peace out And I hlped you about Discogs.. What is happening on this forum ?!
There does seem to be a problem, Lroy.
I would argue it is twofold:
1. Insufficient thoroughness when Google researching
Unless used ironically, "Peace out" is largely synonymous with saying, "Peace".
It's a casual parting comment when taking leave, a bit like "So long" and "Cheerio". Or "Salut" in French.
Formal equivalents would be "Farewell" or "Goodbye".
_____
Look again at your Google search result, but dig past the surface and go through the relevant source:
forum.wordreference.com/threads/peace-out.70176/
You'll discover the quote you cited merely expressed agreement with the immediately-previous post that discusses the meaning of "Peace out":
22 Nov. 2005 post by panjandrum (from Belfast)
Sounds to me, though how would I know, like a combination of the ancient 60s greeting, Peace, with the more modern techologised close of communication message, Out.
22 Nov. 2005 reply by elroy (from Chicago)
Yes - it's a colloquial way to say "goodbye."
It can also function as a phrasal verb: "I'm going to peace out" = "I'm going to take off."
_____
In this instance, the inattentive research unhelpfully fuelled a paranoia โ one that already seems evident by the very question that appears to have been typed into the Google search bar:
Is it rude to say peace out?
2. A frequent tendency by you to assume a hostile intent when uncertain about the meaning of someone else's words
In future instances where there may be a language-barrier issue, or some other kind of ambiguous situation, I recommend taking an emotionally distant, easygoing approach:
Find the most charitable interpretation possible of what's been said or written. Then assume that interpretation corresponds to the intent of the speaker or writer.
And even if you occasionally turn out to be wrong with this technique, it will still work in your favour. You'll more likely be perceived by others as magnanimous, cool-headed and unflappable.
Of course, shifting to a positive mindset does require effort. But those who are able to do so typically become more confident, and end up leading happier, more fulfilling lives.
Hey all, so a quick question if anyone can help? I have fairly expensive record ( ยฃ2500-3000) that Iโm thinking of selling on eBay and want to open it up internationally via the global shipping programme but the limit is ยฃ2000 so theyโll prob send it back to me. Have any of you dealt with a reputable packing and delivery company (from the UK)? Thanks and good night! Why not cut eBay out entirely? There's record forums just like this art one. If it's a highly sought after record, you'll find a buyer. true and completely forgot about that. Cheers and Discogs too ( but you knew that ; ) Care to share the record? yeah sure, didnโt want to say before because Iโve noticed certain people in the forum have a problem as itโs an unauthorised BANKSY image. Itโs a dirty funker flat beat happy choppers in very good condition. Cheers I thought about Banksy ( at this price ) I have had this one too before the Big Bang ! :-) Was new, and sold then for a couple of quid. I hear you Lroy, peace out Any problem ?
" Is it rude to say peace out? Yes - it's a colloquial way to say "goodbye." It can also function as a phrasal verb: "I'm going to peace out" = "I'm going to take off. "
How should I take that ?I hear you Lroy, peace out And I hlped you about Discogs.. What is happening on this forum ?!There does seem to be a problem, Lroy. I would argue it is twofold: 1. Insufficient thoroughness when Google researchingUnless used ironically, "Peace out" is largely synonymous with saying, "Peace". It's a casual parting comment when taking leave, a bit like "So long" and "Cheerio". Or "Salut" in French. Formal equivalents would be "Farewell" or "Goodbye". _____ Look again at your Google search result, but dig past the surface and go through the relevant source: forum.wordreference.com/threads/peace-out.70176/You'll discover the quote you cited merely expressed agreement with the immediately-previous post that discusses the meaning of "Peace out": 22 Nov. 2005 post by panjandrum (from Belfast)Sounds to me, though how would I know, like a combination of the ancient 60s greeting, Peace, with the more modern techologised close of communication message, Out.22 Nov. 2005 reply by elroy (from Chicago)Yes - it's a colloquial way to say "goodbye."
It can also function as a phrasal verb: "I'm going to peace out" = "I'm going to take off."_____ In this instance, the inattentive research unhelpfully fuelled a paranoia โ one that already seems evident by the very question that appears to have been typed into the Google search bar: Is it rude to say peace out?2. A frequent tendency by you to assume a hostile intent when uncertain about the meaning of someone else's wordsIn future instances where there may be a language-barrier issue, or some other kind of ambiguous situation, I recommend taking an emotionally distant, easygoing approach: Find the most charitable interpretation possible of what's been said or written. Then assume that interpretation corresponds to the intent of the speaker or writer. And even if you occasionally turn out to be wrong with this technique, it will still work in your favour. You'll more likely be perceived by others as magnanimous, cool-headed and unflappable. Of course, shifting to a positive mindset does require effort. But those who are able to do so typically become more confident, and end up leading happier, more fulfilling lives.
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,782
Likes โข 6,706
June 2009
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What Music are you listening to at the moment ?, by met on Sept 18, 2021 21:16:52 GMT 1, Band and song details added, in case either of the video links are for whatever reason removed from YouTube at some point in the future.
The Limiรฑanas (featuring Nuria) - Calentita (2020) - uploaded by The Limiรฑanas
Although not yet a convert, I found this interesting, so thank you for posting.
Only after Googling did I realise my earlier assumption was incorrect, and that the song was not in fact made by sampling Serge Gainsbourg.
__________
The Underground Youth - Alice (2016) - uploaded by Fuzz Club
Solitude tonight spared me some embarrassment. As soon as the music came on here, I waited for my cue and then started singing loudly. Got through the first four lines below, from the opening verse, before realising the lyrics in this video were completely different.
Whenever I'm alone with you You make me feel like I am home again Whenever I'm alone with you You make me feel like I am whole again*
Band and song details added, in case either of the video links are for whatever reason removed from You Tube at some point in the future. The Limiรฑanas (featuring Nuria) - Calentita (2020)- uploaded by The LimiรฑanasAlthough not yet a convert, I found this interesting, so thank you for posting. Only after Googling did I realise my earlier assumption was incorrect, and that the song was not in fact made by sampling Serge Gainsbourg. __________ The Underground Youth - Alice (2016)- uploaded by Fuzz ClubSolitude tonight spared me some embarrassment. As soon as the music came on here, I waited for my cue and then started singing loudly. Got through the first four lines below, from the opening verse, before realising the lyrics in this video were completely different. Whenever I'm alone with you You make me feel like I am home again Whenever I'm alone with you You make me feel like I am whole again*
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,782
Likes โข 6,706
June 2009
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Help identifying graffiti artists , by met on Sept 18, 2021 19:26:26 GMT 1,
The ASK Crew is a Bristol-based graffiti crew:
www.instagram.com/askcrewbristol/
1. First two photos:
SEPR
www.shaunsepr.com Email: sp-sepr@hotmail.com
Reach out to SEPR and he'll contact the other relevant members of ASK.
2. Second two photos:
PIRO
3. Third two photos:
EPOK
4. Fourth two photos:
Not certain, but looks like it could be EPOK again.
The ASK Crew is a Bristol-based graffiti crew: www.instagram.com/askcrewbristol/1. First two photos: SEPRwww.shaunsepr.comEmail: sp-sepr@hotmail.com Reach out to SEPR and he'll contact the other relevant members of ASK. 2. Second two photos: PIRO3. Third two photos: EPOK4. Fourth two photos: Not certain, but looks like it could be EPOK again.
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,782
Likes โข 6,706
June 2009
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Thierry Noir ๐จ๐ต Berlin Wall โข French Street Arist , by met on Sept 16, 2021 12:10:40 GMT 1, Is it just me or does anyone else find these Thierry images racially offensive? Given the current political climate and miseducation of our youth I can certainly understand how Woko Haram millenials, trained to be outraged, may take some features of the characters out of context without having seen his oeuvre.
It sounds like unwarranted assumptions are possibly being made โ that the exaggerated facial features in Thierry Noir's cartoon paintings are intended to be racial depictions.
Perhaps the suggestion, for example, is that the yellow figures below with red buck teeth are East Asian. If that's the path Noir has been taking, he should have given them slittier eyes. But then what race should we attribute to the yellow figure with the blue eyes and big green lips? And how about the blue, purple and orange characters? Some of them seem to have headwear. Could they be towelheads?
Query whether any offence being experienced here may simply be down to the offended individual's own projecting.
This could be a symptom of the sadly now-common tendency to hyper-racialise โ everyone, everything, every situation, every experience. Which, in itself and regardless of the intention, is unhelpfully racist.
Is it just me or does anyone else find these Thierry images racially offensive? Given the current political climate and miseducation of our youth I can certainly understand how Woko Haram millenials, trained to be outraged, may take some features of the characters out of context without having seen his oeuvre. It sounds like unwarranted assumptions are possibly being made โ that the exaggerated facial features in Thierry Noir's cartoon paintings are intended to be racial depictions. Perhaps the suggestion, for example, is that the yellow figures below with red buck teeth are East Asian. If that's the path Noir has been taking, he should have given them slittier eyes. But then what race should we attribute to the yellow figure with the blue eyes and big green lips? And how about the blue, purple and orange characters? Some of them seem to have headwear. Could they be towelheads? Query whether any offence being experienced here may simply be down to the offended individual's own projecting. This could be a symptom of the sadly now-common tendency to hyper-racialise โ everyone, everything, every situation, every experience. Which, in itself and regardless of the intention, is unhelpfully racist.
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,782
Likes โข 6,706
June 2009
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Visit TOKYO ๐ฏ๐ต Japan Street Art, Galleries, Events, by met on Sept 10, 2021 6:44:25 GMT 1, Although based in Los Angeles and not really a str eet artist, it's worth checking out Alex Gardner*. I wouldn't call myself a fan of the artist's work, but I do take an interest in it โ for its stark tone and ambiguity; from a palette perspective; and especially in terms of composition, with his anonymised depictions of movement and still poses. [...] Pretty cool find thank you! This is the Japanese artists thread though. I think there is a thread for recently discovered artistsโฆ Cool works and thank you for sharing!
I had indeed understood the Japanese theme of this thread, and mentioned Alex Gardner for that reason.
But there's also no real issue on my side if the preference here is for greater exclusiveness โ whether we insist on pure bloodlines, artists who were raised and currently live in Japan, or simply those who look Japanese and have transliterated surnames ending with a vowel.
The wider umbrella I selected had allowed for Gardner's inclusion:
He is half-Japanese, identifies as being half-Japanese, speaks the language, has travelled extensively in Japan and, importantly, has stated that his paintings are informed by his mixed heritage.
When Tiger Woods is referred to as being black, many don't bat an eyelid, despite the fact Woods is but a quarter African-American. Even closer to the point, the biracial actress-model Devon Aoki would typically be granted the option of laying claim to her "Japaneseness" if she so desired. I would argue the same luxury can be afforded to Gardner. Especially since, when it comes to art, our focus is generally less on the artist's nationality or physical appearance than on the cultural and artistic influences that govern their work.
Although based in Los Angeles and not really a str eet artist, it's worth checking out Alex Gardner*. I wouldn't call myself a fan of the artist's work, but I do take an interest in it โ for its stark tone and ambiguity; from a palette perspective; and especially in terms of composition, with his anonymised depictions of movement and still poses. [...] Pretty cool find thank you! This is the Japanese artists thread though. I think there is a thread for recently discovered artistsโฆ Cool works and thank you for sharing! I had indeed understood the Japanese theme of this thread, and mentioned Alex Gardner for that reason. But there's also no real issue on my side if the preference here is for greater exclusiveness โ whether we insist on pure bloodlines, artists who were raised and currently live in Japan, or simply those who look Japanese and have transliterated surnames ending with a vowel. The wider umbrella I selected had allowed for Gardner's inclusion: He is half-Japanese, identifies as being half-Japanese, speaks the language, has travelled extensively in Japan and, importantly, has stated that his paintings are informed by his mixed heritage. When Tiger Woods is referred to as being black, many don't bat an eyelid, despite the fact Woods is but a quarter African-American. Even closer to the point, the biracial actress-model Devon Aoki would typically be granted the option of laying claim to her "Japaneseness" if she so desired. I would argue the same luxury can be afforded to Gardner. Especially since, when it comes to art, our focus is generally less on the artist's nationality or physical appearance than on the cultural and artistic influences that govern their work.
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